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RethinkDB Relicensed under Apache 2.0
- divbit 10y agoAm I reading this right? Rethinkdb is now under apache 2? That's awesome news - such great software.
- Philipp__ 10y agoThere were some interesting conversations on GitHub during past few months. In the end, everything is in it's place, I am really glad to see RethinkDB standing a chance on their own as an open source project!
- crb 10y ago"Transferring copyright to The Linux Foundation, relicensing RethinkDB under ASLv2." https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/commit/b0ec8bc5a874d5241d8af1166d664083edc5f750 https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/commit/b0ec8bc5a874d5...
- chrisabrams 10y agoYes this is currently in the works; going from AGPL -> ASLv2 is not as simple as a Github PR, but we should hopefully resolve it in the next week or two.
- tshannon 10y agoThat is absolutely fantastic. I feel much more confident about the future of rethinkdb now.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- mglukhovsky 10y agoTo add to that: one of the great consequences of this change is that a large amount of RethinkDB source code that was previously unavailable as open-source code (including some unreleased features for RethinkDB, copious amounts of artwork and content, and build / performance scripts) will now also be steadily open-sourced. We felt that it was too important to let the work we created have a life of its own and establish its own life in the open-source community. It's wonderful to see this finally happen.
- pmontra 10y agoWhy that code couldn't be made available under the AGPL, maybe different and incompatible licenses?
- mglukhovsky 10y agoSome of the code and content was heavily used internally, but we never invested time to properly package it for public consumption. We also briefly had a closed-source version of RethinkDB that has a few useful features for larger teams: we're excited to be able to merge these back into the project.
- gbrown_ 10y agoIt's great to see commercial bodies as well as CNCF not only take interest in these sorts of things but actually push them forward for the benefit of all.
- dankohn1 10y agoThanks, though note that the CNCF (and our parent, the Linux Foundation) are actually a 501(c)(6) non-profit. Most of our funding comes from corporate members, though. https://www.cncf.io/about/members https://www.cncf.io/about/members (I'm the CNCF executive director.)
- andy_ppp 10y agoLooking at that page it's easy to forget sometimes how much value GNU/Linux/etc. being free has made the world.
- api 10y agoFeeling good about our decision to stick with it for our core infrastructure's next incarnation. Still very sad that they didn't make it as a company. We would have paid. RethinkDB is an unbelievable technology: better under the hood and IMHO easier to use than MongoDB, and combining NoSQL with some SQL-like features that for us are good enough. The rough edges we've found so far are minor. We used PostgreSQL before and while excellent on a single node it's deeply painful to cluster. You need a full time DBA to make sure you're doing it right, as GitLab discovered, and when it fails it gives error messages that seem more cryptic than C++ template errors. Amazon RDS was insanely pricey compared to bare metal (our load is both CPU-bound and disk-IO-heavy bare metal on OVH is >10X cheaper than Amazon) and Redshift didn't have pgsql syntax yet. Even now that it does I'm not sure I want to be bound to it as I have an instinctive aversion to cloud lock-in.
- overcast 10y agoDefinitely, I LOVE digging through RethinkDB queries. Relational documents with change feeds is exactly what I've always wanted in a database.
- api 10y agoYeah the change feed feature is beautiful too. It's not what sold us but once we had it it made making everything real-time almost trivial. I think the big thing for us is that everything about RethinkDB screams quality from a technical POV. It's powerful but not over-engineered. The code is pretty clean looking. It "just works" without hiding wads of chewing gum and duct tape in Docker containers or requiring 10-step setup processes. When you do bang on it ChaosMonkey-style it holds up very well.
- kod 10y agoCitus (https://github.com/citusdata/citus https://github.com/citusdata/citus) is pretty easy to use for distributed postgres.
- macmac 10y agoCitus is interestingly licensed under the AGPL.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- tyingq 10y agoCurious what they paid for the IP rights to do it. The earlier discussion posted here indicated the IP holder wanted a fairly large figure to sell it.
- dankohn1 10y agoWe paid $25 K. (I'm the CNCF executive director.) https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/02/06/cncf-purchases-rethinkdb-source-code-contributes-linux-foundation-apache-license https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/02/06/cncf-purchases-rethinkdb...
- nacs 10y agoThat seems like a great deal to me. Nice work by both parties.
- justincormack 10y ago$25k https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/02/06/cncf-purchases-rethinkdb-source-code-contributes-linux-foundation-apache-license https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/02/06/cncf-purchases-rethinkdb...
- bpicolo 10y agoThat's really awesome news, and makes the future of RethinkDB a very exciting prospect!
- devoply 10y agoProbably paid legitimate salary + bonus for the time the developers spent developing it. That would be a fair compromise.
- abraae 10y agoSometimes the beauty of the free market is a joy to behold.
- mxuribe 10y agoI'm no free market expert...but wouldn't the free market sort of burn away the IP along with the org.? I would say its a bit of a tweaked/hybrid market (maybe call it libre market?), which - because it includes/allows for open/libre source - has allowed for IP to live on, whereas typical market incentives might have otherwise doomed it to "Sorry, no interest because of Can-Not-Make-Money-Off-of-It-itis".
- huragok 10y agoThe company behind the software died an inglorious death. What does the market have anything to do with this?
- abraae 10y agoThat it's financial burdens died with it but it's worthy parts were reborn in a new form.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- chrisabrams 10y agoRethinkDB leadership member here: happy to answer any questions for the next hour or so. One thing to note, this was not an easy process; our team has spent months working daily on a solution. This was definitely our Plan A result, but we never expected LF to step up and provide the sponsorship funding as well. Huge thanks to LF/CNCF for helping close things in the end! If you use RethinkDB please make sure to give a leadership member a hug if you happen to be in SF/NYC/Nashville/Philly/etc.
- overcast 10y agoSo awesome, I didn't want to give up using RethinkDB! By far my favorite database.
- netcraft 10y agoGreat news! Excited to see what the community can do with it!
- caniszczyk 10y agoFYI also Stripe has generously agreed to match up to $25,000 in donations: https://rethinkdb.com/contribute https://rethinkdb.com/contribute
- mglukhovsky 10y agoHey everyone, thanks to the rest of the RethinkDB leadership team and the CNCF for their hard work! This wouldn't have been possible without a lot of effort from our dedicated community. You can read the announcement on RethinkDB's blog to find out about the project's next steps: https://rethinkdb.com/blog/rethinkdb-joins-linux-foundation/ https://rethinkdb.com/blog/rethinkdb-joins-linux-foundation/ We've had a lot of folks ask if they can donate to support the project. Stripe has generously offered to match up to $25k in donations (which will help fund server costs and future development.) You can learn how to contribute to the project with OSS contributions or donations here: https://rethinkdb.com/contribute https://rethinkdb.com/contribute
- chrisabrams 10y agoI'd like to point out that the OP of this comment is Mike the RethinkDB co-founder. While the company may have perished, his spirit for the project only got larger. Everyone buy Mike a beer.
- TheMissingPiece 10y agoYes it did... MG being our fearless leader has been everything :) Working with the interim leadership team was a dream... Thank you for being one of the most amazing communities around :) (I'm the former community manager btw).
- eitland 10y agoDon't use it, never have. Sent a coffee anyway just to say thanks! Thanks for caring and thanks for releasing under a license that allows all to use it!
- dang 10y agoThat announcement post now has its own thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13581375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13581375. Normally, of course, we wouldn't have two threads so closely related on the front page, but the topics do seem distinct in this case and they're both pretty major.
- distantsounds 10y agoRethinkDB is a fantastic piece of software, I'm glad to see this happen.
- eicnix 10y agoAwesome. Although I wanted to use RethinkDB for new stuff I was very hesitant to introduce a probably discontinued product. Using a Linux product with Apache 2 instead makes the decision to introduce RethinkDB much easier. Is somebody already working on a operator for kubernetes like coreos did for etcd [1]? What is your recommended kubernetes deployment for RethinkDB? [1] https://github.com/coreos/etcd-operator https://github.com/coreos/etcd-operator
- chrisabrams 10y agoI would highly recommend starting with this project: https://github.com/rosskukulinski/kubernetes-rethinkdb-cluster https://github.com/rosskukulinski/kubernetes-rethinkdb-clust... I use RethinkDB with Kubernetes in production using the above project and have been very happy. Ross, the project creator, is also a RethinkDB leadership member and is stellar at responding to any questions concerning the project.
- cpuguy83 10y agoWhile the CNCF helped front the funds to get the this going, RethinkDB is totally under the Linux Foundation and not a CNCF project for now.
- eicnix 10y agoThank you for the correction.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jordigh 10y agoThis really bugs me. Copyleft has always been feared by lawyers and corporate people alike. Let's not forget how Ballmer called the GPL a cancer that infects everything it touches. Yet, copyleft is our only defense against abusive proprietary software and without copyleft we might not have the fertile collaboration of projects such as Linux, git, or OpenWrt. The AGPL is just an updated GPL. Back when software mostly came in boxes, the GPL was as feared as the AGPL is now. Now that software mostly comes from the internet, the AGPL is there to address this new distribution method. Now the AGPL is the new cancer. Overzealous lawyers trying to "protect" copyrights have indoctrinated an entire generation of hackers that sharing code is a danger and the AGPL is the prime threat. I have spoken to too many Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, or Google employees that are convinced that sharing their source code would be tantamount to death. The result is a world where their secret software controls the news we read, the ads we see, the people we talk to, and even the emotions we feel. "Open source, but licensed under the AGPL.", says the article. There is no "but" here. The AGPL is the very definition of "open source", because it defends openness. If you have nothing to fear from open source, you have nothing to fear from the AGPL.
- the_mitsuhiko 10y agoI'm very outspoken against the GPL so take this comment with a grain of salt. > The AGPL is just an updated GPL. The AGPL is significantly more than an updated GPL and there are loads of companies which have a blanket policy in place to not even get anywhere close to AGPL code because of the uncertainties about how it actually works. > The AGPL is the very definition of "open source", because it defends openness. Maybe it's the definition of free software but it's definitely not the definition of open source. Many of us in the open source community see our work as something that should be open for everybody to use.
- Flimm 10y agoIf we're going to sink our time into the old copyleft vs permissive licenses debate, I wish we would be more precise with our words. AGPL is an open source license, according to OSI, the only authority on what constitutes open source. https://opensource.org/licenses/AGPL-3.0 https://opensource.org/licenses/AGPL-3.0 You say "open for everybody to use". Both open source licenses and free/libre licences guarantee that the software is open for use. You're actually talking about freedom to combine with closed source/proprietary software, not about end-users freedom to use the software.
- the_mitsuhiko 10y agoThis is amazing. Thanks so much for everybody who made this possible!
- niftich 10y agoThe GNU Affero GPLv3 has been a recurring topic during RethinkDB's existence, but I cannot substantiate the same having been an issue for MongoDB. Links appreciated. Some instances of people asking about GNU Affero GPLv3 and RethinkDB: (2014-11-16) https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/issues/3347 https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/issues/3347 (2015-06-16) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rethinkdb/g5UEck3sqMs https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rethinkdb/g5UEck3sqM... (2016-10-10) https://sagemath.blogspot.com/2016/10/rethinkdb-must-relicense-now-what-is.html https://sagemath.blogspot.com/2016/10/rethinkdb-must-relicen... (2017-01-09) https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/issues/6221 https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/issues/6221
- Operyl 10y agoIt only recently became a big issue because in MongoDB land, you can purchase an alternative license from the company, from what I understand. In RethinkDB's case, we lost that as soon as the company shut down.
- zb 10y agoYes, this is a giant issue for MongoDB. For example here's Yahoo explaining (in 2014) why they will never use it: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030510.html http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-Marc... For the record, I personally think that this is 100% pure FUD (the thinking behind it is described as "preposterous" later in the thread). Nevertheless, if someone with the title of "Sr. Director Of Open Source, Open Standards" at a company the size of Yahoo can buy in to this FUD, then most smaller companies have no chance of distinguishing between fact and fantasy, and many will steer clear as a precaution.
- dublinben 10y agoUnfortunately, it's neither new nor surprising that a director of "Open Source" at a large company would be spreading unfounded doubt about a strongly copyleft free software license. It is ultimately against their employer's interests to be compelled to publish their modifications.
- z3t4 10y agoI think GPL did make sense before, but APL make more sense now. I do not fully understand APL though, but it seems, like with MIT, there can be hostile forks, where a competitor takes not only the code, but also the community and the business.
- gkya 10y agoA work on the colours of this page: IDK if it's me only but light-grey font on white background stabs my eyes, I can't even look at it. Why is this a la mode now? Why go lighter than, say, #333 for text that's meant to be read?
- GrinningFool 10y agoPages like this I end up having to select the text to invert it and make it readable. It works, but doesn't give feedback to the author that their color choice is a bit broken...
- franciscop 10y agoLight gray color + thin font = no-go. But hey, the designer should be really happy (while the UX person is crying in a corner).
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kepano 10y agoThis is very exciting. We've been using RethinkDB in production at Lumi for the past two years and it's been nothing short of perfect. The prospect of switching has been a nagging dread, but the continued pace of positive announcements is reassuring. We've been contributing back in small ways here and there, but plan to do so more actively now.
- porker 10y agoHow much did the CNCF have to pay for the code?
- SkyRocknRoll 10y ago$25K
- tracker1 10y agoOT: Man, that font is way too thin and hard to read... really wish the weight were closer to 500 instead of 300 (injected a style into head to make more readable for me). At least they only specified the one font-family and fallback (without helvetica/arial, like a sane person)
- dkersten 10y agoToo thin and too bright. I couldn't read it at all on my phone without using the safari readability feature.
- fcanesin 10y agoWas horizon included in the deal ?
- mglukhovsky 10y agoYes, Horizon was included. Since it's MIT licensed, it's already freely available, but it joins The Linux Foundation under RethinkDB's aegis.
- makkesk8 10y agoThis is great, I see a bright future for rethinkdb! I've used rethinkdb quite a bit and I was wondering if anything thinks its suitable for time series data?
- gigatexal 10y agoGlad to see this occur, would hate to have production code running without the DB being supported. Kudos to everyone involved. Another win for OSS.
- rightnow 10y ago6th of february 2017. Best day of the year so far!!
- josephg 10y agoThis is fantastic! I'm working on a little piece of fun realtime streaming database tech, and up until now I thought I'd have to implement my own realtime querying piece. Being able to lean on rethinkdb will make the whole thing way easier to implement, and provide a better experience for my users. My concern has been that there's a few missing features in rethinkdb - I want to be able to resume query after a client gets disconnected without re-downloading the result set. (If the data hasn't changed) and I want deeper integration with rethinkdb's versioning system. But I've been too nervous about making those changes myself and build on top of rethinkdb because of license taint. Now this has all been solved. Its starting to look like a good time to crack open the code and submit some patches! Thanks everyone who's made this happen!
- jwr 10y agoFWIW, I would also love to be able to resume queries. For the moment I redownload the initial data, which is suboptimal (though honestly performance hasn't been a problem yet).