14 ms·

Standing up for what's right

402 points by smaili 10y ago

endswapper 10y ago
Clear message, clear call to action, clear action with the ability to leverage what he is advocating while acknowledging and respecting opposing perspectives. This had substance and was clear and articulate. It's exactly what Sam's Time to Take a Stand post is missing.
gogopuppygogo 10y ago
Glad to see the tech industry leaders taking a stand on these immigration issues. Sam Altman and Travis are being very public but I'm sure many are working the system behind the scenes and there will be more public results in the future. The fight has just begun. It's just a matter of time now till they to tear apart net neutrality. Trump might just be the wake up call the nation needed to wake up and stop being so complacent.
- eplanit 10y ago
  > It's just a matter of time now till they to tear apart net neutrality. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13474079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13474079 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/fcc-to-be-led-by-ajit-pai-staunch-opponent-of-consumer-protection-rules/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/fcc-to-be-led-by...
- edblarney 10y ago
  "Trump might just be the wake up call the nation needed to wake up and stop being so complacent." I'll bet that at least 50% of Americans support the premise of a 'temporary ban on entry of people from areas of open conflict or that are governed by jihadi entities'. Point being - there are many Americans who believe that Trump is the 'wake up call'. I think there is a lot of danger from people living inside social bubbles making assumptions about what the 'proverbial we' should or are thinking about what is right or wrong. By the way - I think this exec order is a political gesture. After 90 days, everyone who was to come to the US, will end up coming. I believe that most entrants are fairly well vetted already, and that things will get back to normal pretty quickly, with some minor adjustments so that Trump can claim his order was needed and warranted.
  - Retra 10y ago
    At least 50% of anybody will answer anyway you like to a loaded question.
nemesisj 10y ago
It's great to see Uber come out so publically against this travesty of a Presidential executive order. It's a despicable act and all Americans should be ashamed of what's happening. That said, it's interesting to see a company that has regularly ignored the law to build their business dive into the fray. They've also employed many of the same tactics of bullying, just like Trump. Perhaps that's what we need? Perhaps the DNA of fighting and ignoring regulations will come in handy...I just wish it didn't have to. The whole thing is just sad.
- edblarney 10y ago
  "It's a despicable act and all Americans should be ashamed of what's happening." I think it's rather arrogant to assume that your moral position is 'what all Americans should think or else they are immoral'. I'm weary of the executive order myself ... but it's not entirely irrational to temporarily ban entry of people from nations that are in open conflict and from areas wherein the only 'governance' is that of a jihadist entity. Except Iran - all the others are serious conflict zones, wherein many participants would gladly act against the USA. Have you looked at a political map of Libya or Yemen lately? Scary stuff. What is 'despicable' is the wailing and misrepresentation of the issue across the board. If Obama were to have done this after a terrorist attack (say, a 'shooting' in Cali or whatever) - and it was done quietly and reasonably so that those with green cards etc. would be allowed in - and so that people 'on flights' would not be affected, I don't think there would be such a huge fuss. I believe that after 90 days, most of those who would be coming to America will still be coming in. This will de-facto boil down to a unnecessary political disruption ... but it's both fair and within the bounds of responsible reason to recognize the fact that Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Iraq etc. are very dangerous places, much more so than most places, and that some extra precautions are possibly necessary. I don't really support it, but it's not out of bounds for people to think it's necessary. Iran though - that's purely political (admittedly, it's probably all political). Jihadis don't come from Iran.
  - dkarapetyan 10y ago
    The influx is the refugees fleeing the conflict. These are exactly the people that we want to support because they are peaceful and are not contributing to the conflict. In those 90 days lives that could have been saved might be lost all because we have a moron in charge. Inaction is not acceptable and fighting this thing tooth and nail is the right thing to do because historical precedent says it only gets worse from here.
earthly10x 10y ago
To address the trump problem, we must have a good understanding of trump himself, his DNA and this clip helps with that I noticed: https://youtu.be/CTzBZuPx1lQ?t=1643 https://youtu.be/CTzBZuPx1lQ?t=1643
DanBC 10y ago
I booked my first Uber ride because of this post.
- notforgot 10y ago
  Have an upvote. You shouldn't be downvoted for expressing yourself.
djsumdog 10y ago
This is really shitty. Regardless of what you think of the immigration issue, blocking legal residents from entering the US is absolutely terrible. It's a contract violation from the US government. This order essentially says America doesn't care you're a full legal resident, because you hold a citizenship from this limited subset of countries (many of which we're bombing), you can't come back. (America is bombing seven countries by the way, in case anyone forgot. Our last president is the first in history to have the US in armed conflict for every day of his presidency. He will not be the last.) What I also hate is that Uber tries to play the PR game and show themselves as the great guys here. Forget that they pay their drivers peanuts, that drivers have to drive up to 30% more now to make the same wages as just a few years ago, and that many are calling Uber to unionise. I hate they way everyone is just using people to further their message and forgetting that these are people.
- freddyc 10y ago
  > What I also hate is that Uber tries to play the PR game and show themselves as the great guys here. Forget that they pay their drivers peanuts, that drivers have to drive up to 30% more now to make the same wages as just a few years ago, and that many are calling Uber to unionise. I hate they way everyone is just using people to further their message and forgetting that these are people. This +100. From what friends who were early at Uber tell me, this is not consistent with his character and feels like a PR grab. This issue is beyond f'd up, and while I guess any attention is good attention if it causes action, I draw the line at giving credit for cheap PR stunts.
  - anarazel 10y ago
    So what? What'd be right thing to do in this case? I disagree with Uber on a bunch of things, but me judging them to do the wrong thing on some issues, doesn't prevent them doing the right thing on others. By critizing them for doing the right thing you're just disincentivizing from doing the right thing again. I think this line of argument weakens "our" position considerably.
    - 10y ago
redsummer 10y ago
Why isn't Saudi Arabia on the list?
- woodhull 10y ago
  Because that might hurt Trump's own business interests: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-excludes-countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-ex...
  - TillE 10y ago
    This is looking at two effects and deciding one of them is the cause. Saudi Arabia is a close ally of the US. That's the really horrific truth, and that's why Trump has business there and not in countries which the US is less friendly with.
    - woodhull 10y ago
      We can't really know whether it's because of his biz interests or because America is friendly with the Saudi regime. This is why Trump's refusal to divest himself from his businesses is an unacceptable conflict of interest even if he insists it is fine and there are no grounds to question it.
- mattlevan 10y ago
  Because the list of countries was drafted by Obama's administration. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187
  - mgiannopoulos 10y ago
    Source?
    - Malician 10y ago
      https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-list-of-muslim-countries-trump-wants-to-ban-was-compiled-by-the-obama-administration#.4IZpXgKyN https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-list-of-muslim-countries... This, of course, excuses the action not at all. But it does explain the choice of countries. (and, of course, Obama didn't tell Trump which list to pick.)
employee8000 10y ago
As an Uber employee, I'm morbidly curious as to how HN will spin this into something negative. :) For the record, I'm super proud of working at Uber because those on the outside never see the things we do for our drivers. This is a big one and I'm really proud. You just don't see this on the news that often because who knows. I've said this before but the Uber of the last 2 years is not the same Uber from 2013/2014. As a company it has grown up and matured and realizes the responsibilities it has to its drivers, riders and cities.
- general_ai 10y ago
  Put your hands in the air and step away from the kool-aid dispenser.
  - wott 10y ago
    He has already proven in others threads that he dried up the dispenser.
- kevindong 10y ago
  Could you expand on how Uber has changed?
  - tyingq 10y ago
    This from Kalanick was unexpected to me: "We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro bono during the next three months" You could argue it's just a PR thing, I suppose, but it certainly wasn't something I expected to see.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  What's the average hourly earnings of a busy driver after they pay their expenses (vehicle amortization, insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc.)?
  - inverse_pi 10y ago
tabeth 10y ago
Firstly, I'd like to point out that Travis' post was spot on (I abhor Trump's policies, so the more big names speaking out against him, the better). However, is Travis really the best messenger? Is this just glorified PR or does he actually care? I can't read his mind, so we can only judge from his actions. Let's see what he's done to "stand up for what's right" in regards to his own organization (this isn't exhaustive, at all): - Uber employees order fake rides to sink competitor [1] - Blaming the media for suggesting Uber is liable [2] - Blind passengers denied rides [3] - Uber executives looking into critics' personal lives [4] ---- You may think those things are irrelevant, but one should practice what they preach, especially when they have a post titled: "Standing up for what's right." My examples, by the way, only scratch the surface to Uber's own shady practices. [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-against-nyc-competition-cam-1508280668 http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-again... [2] https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-most-awful-things-travis-kalanick-said-in-his-gq-profile/ https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-m... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/10/uber-sued-for-allegedly-refusing-rides-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-trunk/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/1... [4] http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-digging-up-dirt-on-journalists#.agOZK3GPR http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-dig...
- davidw 10y ago
  > really the best messenger The more messengers, the better. This is authoritarianism, pure and simple. It's not remotely about security or anything else.
  - tabeth 10y ago
    I disagree. Would you be saying this if Pence wrote this post? I would imagine you'd call him out on his hypocrisy. More messengers are good only if they actually believe what they're saying.
    - davidw 10y ago
      You mean like this? https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433 https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433
whenwillitstop 10y ago
Travis Kalanick, standing up for the cheap labor that drives his Ubers and writes it's code.
- mavdi 10y ago
  Yet you're more than likely an avid user of this conveniently provided, reasonably priced and reliable service.
  - whenwillitstop 10y ago
    You are right, I am. That doesnt change the underlying reasons for a company like Uber to make this statement. It is manipulation of the public, intended to make Uber look moral, as well as intended to reassure their cheap labor base. The fact that people on here are championing it shows how effective this kind of PR is, even among the educated people of HN.
    - Groxx 10y ago
      What's the alternative for Uber? Silence?
      - whenwillitstop 10y ago
        I'm just saying, it is no coincidence that they say this. There are a lot of influences like this Uber statement that are doing the same thing. Most people are not aware
        Groxx 10y ago
        but basically you're saying if they say nothing, it's horrible. if they say anything good, it's a PR stunt. so they're incapable of doing anything positive? which you may think and are welcome to do so, but it seems a teensy bit prejudicial to me.
        10y ago
schappim 10y ago
I was expecting Uber to ban the Trump administration from using Uber, but instead was pleased see a far classier move to help out drivers stuck outside the country: >> We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro bono during the next three months to help mitigate some of the financial stress and complications with supporting their families and putting food on the table. We will have more details on this in the coming days.
paradox95 10y ago
Too bad he's silent for the past year when these issues were obviously going to happen. He allowed it to happen. And now he's quietly giving Trump lip service behind closed doors. He (Travis + Uber) doesn't give a damn about anyone. As long as they can get some Uber-friendly policy from Trump they'll continue to let him do whatever he wants. They are enabling him by working with him on other issues while ignoring this. Such PR bullshit. Trying to look good in the public eye.
- explainthisth 10y ago
  How do you plan the help the US residents stranded overseas?
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obi1kenobi 10y ago
Interesting bit: Travis Kalanick pledges that Uber will compensate drivers stuck overseas because of the executive orders.
- toephu2 10y ago
  And how many of those are there? Do you think many uber drivers can afford to go overseas? Yes a few, but I doubt it's a high number. This is just a PR stunt.
tptacek 10y ago
Please consider: It's heartening to see tech CEOs speak out against bigotry and disheartening to see other tech leaders remain quiet and it all makes a potent narrative and easy access to the tops of message board front pages. But it does not. actually. matter. what tech leadership does. We are not all sitting dutifully in our seats at Moscone waiting to see what "one more thing" from CEOs and venture capitalists is going to look like. We're also not prisoners of the management of companies whose CEOs join the administration or attend summits at Trump's garish Barad-Dûfus. It may not be true for all workers in all industries but as someone who's been working in tech for more than 20 years I'm telling you that our management needs us more than we need them. There has never been a better market for our services or a set of employers more dependent on our goodwill and cooperation than in 2017. Do not wait for your firm's CEO to take a stand. Organize with your coworkers. If you don't know how to get started doing that, start thinking of stabs you can take at the problem. Organizing is a problem where code actually might make a difference. Organize a pledge, or a group statement, or meetups. Or some other idea we haven't come up with yet. A lot of engineers want to believe their work is apolitical. I understand the impulse. But your work is political whether you want it to be or not. If you don't put your market power to use for your beliefs, you're just accepting your employer's default settings, and putting it to work for theirs. Don't accept the defaults. Organize your workplace. You have a crazy amount of influence you're not using right now. It won't always be like this; don't waste the opportunity. Places to start: The Indivisible guide: https://www.indivisibleguide.com/ https://www.indivisibleguide.com/ --- there are at least 10 software projects buried in this thing, but also remember the same ideas apply on a smaller scale both in local politics and at your work place. https://twitter.com/techsolidarity https://twitter.com/techsolidarity --- show up to one of these. They're well attended and they'll interface you to your local (serious) activist community, people actually working with those at risk. Also things I've said in the last few days that I'd rather not repeat but are relevant: On calling your reps: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=13509555 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=13509555 --- please punch your Senators and Congresspeople's numbers into your speed dial. On running for office: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493366 --- please convince a friend to run for local office. On U2F, TOTP, and SMS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493100 --- please disable SMS authentication on services that will let you. :) If you're building applications to ensure that people put pressure on their local representatives or, even better, to get normal people to run for local elected office, I want to help!
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rocky1138 10y ago
Ghostery blocked this. Does anyone have a text dump?
- Groxx 10y ago
  This afternoon I sent the email below to Uber employees and thought I would include here: Subject: Standing up for what's right Team, Yesterday President Trump signed an executive order suspending entry of citizens from seven countries—Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen—to the United States for at least the next 90 days. Our People Ops team has already reached out to the dozen or so employees who we know are affected: for example, those who live and work in the U.S., are legal residents but not naturalized citizens will not be able to get back into the country if they are traveling outside of the U.S. now or anytime in the next 90 days. Anyone who believes that this order could impact them should contact our immigration team immediately. This order has far broader implications as it also affects thousands of drivers who use Uber and come from the listed countries, many of whom take long breaks to go back home to see their extended family. These drivers currently outside of the U.S. will not be able to get back into the country for 90 days. That means they will not be able to earn a living and support their families—and of course they will be separated from their loved ones during that time. We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro bono during the next three months to help mitigate some of the financial stress and complications with supporting their families and putting food on the table. We will have more details on this in the coming days. While every government has their own immigration controls, allowing people from all around the world to come here and make America their home has largely been the U.S.’s policy since its founding. That means this ban will impact many innocent people—an issue that I will raise this coming Friday when I go to Washington for President Trump’s first business advisory group meeting. Ever since Uber’s founding we’ve had to work with governments and politicians of all political persuasions across hundreds of cities and dozens of countries. Though we share common ground with many of them, we have had areas of disagreement with each of them. In some cases we’ve had to stand and fight to make progress, other times we’ve been able to effect change from within through persuasion and argument. But whatever the city or country—from the U.S. and Mexico to China and Malaysia—we’ve taken the view that in order to serve cities you need to give their citizens a voice, a seat at the table. We partner around the world optimistically in the belief that by speaking up and engaging we can make a difference. Our experience is that not doing so shortchanges cities and the people who live in them. This is why I agreed in early December to join President Trump’s economic advisory group along with Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla), Mary Barra (Chairwoman/CEO of General Motors), Indra Nooyi (Chairwoman/CEO of Pepsi), Ginni Rometty (Chairwoman/CEO of IBM), Bob Iger (Chairman/CEO of Disney), Jack Welch (former Chairman of GE) and a dozen other business leaders. I understand that many people internally and externally may not agree with that decision, and that’s OK. It's the magic of living in America that people are free to disagree. But whatever your view please know that I’ve always believed in principled confrontation and just change; and have never shied away (maybe to my detriment) from fighting for what’s right. Thanks, Travis Kalanick
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Fr0styMatt88 10y ago
How is Trump seemingly doing so much, so quickly? Looking in from the outside, it seems like all the political process that Obama had to go through just isn't applicable? The example I always comforted myself with w.r.t to Trump was Obama trying to get the gun laws changed - even the POTUS couldn't do it. So then he mustn't have unlimited power. So what's going on here? I'm really curious how executive orders work in the US. Are they just the first step in a process, or do they override any democratic process? The latter seems to be what all the reporting is implying, but I don't know if that's hyperbole or true.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Congress writes laws that delegate wide authority over certain things to the President (and thus the various executive agencies of the government). A lot of the immigration process happens to be one of them. Gun control largely isn't.
  - mavelikara 10y ago
    Even if you take just the immigration process, the OP's point stands.
    - edblarney 10y ago
      It's a temporary, 90-day hold on entry of people from countries that have open conflict among jihadist groups (except Iran). So I think the legal footing that Trump is trying to make is with respect to 'security'. And it's temporary. So those two things: that's it's for 'national security' and 'temporary' may make this within his power. After 9/11 - Bush did a somewhat similar thing - changed the entry rules temporarily while new legislation/processes was enacted. It's going to be a long 4 years, we need to saver our energy for the right fights. I'll bet $1000 that after 90 days, the system will remain de-facto the same as it was before. The 'long term' fight that is really relevant to 'us nerds' I think will be net-neutrality. That will be permanent.
      - 10y ago
rdl 10y ago
What he and other business advisory group meeting people say on Friday is going to have more impact than any number of street protests.
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earthly100x 10y ago
This explains the situation quite well... https://i.reddituploads.com/46d57a935ef947d499ab635cefff2e8e?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=b7aee28893004c16fabdbe81a7962b59 https://i.reddituploads.com/46d57a935ef947d499ab635cefff2e8e...
throw2016 10y ago
I don't support this action but how can you reconcile being offended by this action and yet be blase while we nonchalantly bombs others daily leading to the complete devastation of entire countries and their people. This does not seem consistent. One is right to move freely and the other is right to live. Why is this so much worse than the other? This is just one more in a line of negative actions towards a particular region and its people who are being abused and killed for self serving geo-political and economic reasons.
- throw2016 10y ago
  Too cynical and I take back this comment. Am impressed with the level of activism and response. Well done.
xacaxulu 10y ago
The virtue signaling is strong with this one.
- legodt 10y ago
  When did "virtue signalling" become the de facto insult against people standing up for human rights? I've been seeing it a lot around hacker news and from various alt right outlets. I've seen it exclusively in dismissive tones to imply that advocacy only exists in a performative dimension.
  - diyorgasms 10y ago
    I find it amusing because the implication is that the alt-right views virtue as a perjorative.
- jsavit 10y ago
  Using your influence and means to promote positive change isn't virtue signaling. This isn't the same as adding a filter to your facebook profile picture.
empy 10y ago
America is so divided now. So maybe it's better just to divide America into liberal America and conservative America. This is better for both left and right side.
- revx 10y ago
  Some people tried that in the 1860s, and it didn't go very well...
  - Retra 10y ago
    Admittedly, there was a much larger threat of large-scale foreign invasion at the time.
- ktRolster 10y ago
  It's better for us to come together and resolve our differences.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  And how do you propose we do that? It isn't like the country is divided in any simple way.
camperman 10y ago
"While every government has their own immigration controls, allowing people from all around the world to come here and make America their home has largely been the U.S.’s policy since its founding." Nonsense.
orblivion 10y ago
They say Trump is easily swayed by people he meets with. Let's hope this works.
- ArtDev 10y ago
  His first meeting is with Vladimir Putin..
  - orblivion 10y ago
    Well more specifically, it's whoever he met with more recently :-D
xacaxulu 10y ago
Travis likes breaking any law that stands in the way of him making money and breaking into new markets. Now that he disagrees with an Executive order (that really means he's being deprived of a cheap source of labor), he's come out in full PR mode. You can like or dislike Trump, but Kalanick is a hypocrite through and through.
- orblivion 10y ago
  Call him on opportunist, but a hypocrite? This is just another bit of government in his way.
- pfarnsworth 10y ago
  Lol your post doesn't even make sense. According to your own logic, he's fighting local government laws, ie. breaking laws, and now he's fighting an executive order that he disagrees with, so that makes him a... hypocrite? I think you don't quite understand what that word means.
mangeletti 10y ago
Is this 2017? We're taking ethics lessons from the CEO of Uber?
EGreg 10y ago
I thought this guy largely had a reputation as an asshole ... but here he comes off as downright responsible and caring.
jmspring 10y ago
Let's not forget this: http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/technology/uber-ceo-trump/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/technology/uber-ceo-trump/
bamboozled 10y ago
Who really cares what this hypocrite and other US based technology CEOs like him think. For them it's fine to totally to run companies who: * Abuse user privacy. * Constatntly pretend they are driving positive social progress. * Track people in a non-transparent, disrespectful way. * Build echo chambers to keep people ill-informed and hooked on using services. * Avoid paying tax. * Automate people out of jobs, while not contributing to wellfare systems. * Get rich off state owned infrastructure and give little to nothing back. * Give money to political parties. * Exploit cheap labor. * Censor things for government agencies. However, as soon as profts are at risk, they decide to come out swinging. Where is the outrage when a child goes hungry in Africa, or a person is bombed in Syria by a US drone? The billions and billions of dollars tied up in these companies should be going back into communities, education, medical and food aid. Not on "moonshots", and ambiguous charity initiaivies which only go towards lining their pockets further. It's companies that operate in this way which gave Trump a voice, knowingly or unknowningly. Trump didn't just magic himself into the Whitehouse, did he? I feel sorry for anyone affected by this but having CEOs throwing bullshit into the bonfire won't help. Everyone is responsible for the current situation, it's not just the actions of one man.
- FLGMwt 10y ago
  Even if I was a saint, I'd rather give this message to an asshat with an audience.
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. That makes flamewars both flamier and less substantive, and you could hardly have stuffed this one with more genera. Also, name-calling ('this hypocrite') is against HN's rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Please don't do that here.
baybal2 10y ago
+1 to that guy, even if it is a PR move
MilesHildebrand 10y ago
Finally a voice of reason.
fdsaaf 10y ago
I'm an American citizen and a very senior software engineer. I'm also a white male. Immigration restrictions will raise my wages. These measures also infuriate those who regularly denounce my race and gender in the name of fake "diversity". Why shouldn't I be in favor of this program? Of course, in public, I'll denounce Trump, but in private, I'll root for expanding bans and reducing the H1-B supply. While I'm sure that corporate executives feel a certain personal level of frustration with this administration, I suspect that the prospect of rising labor costs also prompt a certain shrill activism. My stance is indeed cynical. I'm an unabashed cynic. Cynicism doesn't make me wrong. While it's true that many people in the valley are foreign-born and that wages are high, wages are still far below the value each worker produces. Take a major tech company. Divide its annual profit by the number of people it employs. The difference between that number and the money you're paid is the value of your work that you've failed to capture.
- good_sir_ant 10y ago
  Long term though... bans, tarriffs, protections of any kind are all ill conceived. You will absolutely get a boost in wages, but the cost is quite significant. Shortening supply artificially always raises prices, and ends up meaning the same amount of output costs more to achieve than it otherwise would without the restrictions. Why would any economy want entertain that for too long?
  - fdsaaf 10y ago
    You're right --- but as John Maynard Keynes famously wrote, "In the long run, we're all dead". In the medium term, it is unreasonable to expect middle America to compete with workers from countries with no environmental laws, no safety regulations, and no worker safety. Likewise, it is unreasonable for ask us free people to compete with H1-B holders who cannot leave their jobs without being deported. Besides, historically speaking, we make productivity advances fastest when labor is expensive. In a sea of cheap labor, technology stagnates. Of course, in the long run, we're going to have a single integrated global economy. But a policy of immediate free trade and free movement is not a feasible or fair way of getting to this state.
- 10y ago
danols 10y ago
Takes a certain type of arrogance to play the high card with the track record and reputation that he has. He has zero credibility when it comes to standing up for what is right.
quakeguy 10y ago
Only a glimpse of what is to come i fear, lets hope the best.
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ChuckMcM 10y ago
I suppose he could pull out of DC
mnglkhn2 10y ago
There multiple ways somebody can get a green card. I suspect that the majority of those w. green cards and citizenship from the seven countries that were banned have obtained these green cards by way of refugee status. I have nothing against helping refugees escape atrocities in their home countries. If possible, good for them. The problem I see is that there is an inherent unfairness in this process when compared to those who try to immigrate legally, especially when using the H1B process. A refugees obtains a green card in a matter of months if not 1 year at most. With no particularly serious/harsh vetting. Look at what this has brought, considering that all the past attacks (Boston, California, Florida) where done by people that entered US by this rout. An H1B has to usually wait if somewhere between 8-16years, sometimes more just to get the green card. And for every step, they are scrutinized and verified in the most intimate detail. In my opinion this is not a fair process. And, personally, I am ok with increasing the scrutiny on those that apply for refugee status.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  I don't think you even remotely understand what a green card is or how difficult they are to get. Green cards indicate legal resident status. You must hold one for five years before even being able to apply for citizenship. They are not H1-B visas. They aren't holiday work visas. Having a green card means you must always file taxes even if you leave (the United States is the only country to do this. The US is also one of two countries in the world that tax citizens who don't live there). The US doesn't have a "permanent resident without travel restrictions" type visa, so it is literally the highest visa short of citizenship you can hold.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  "From 1980 to 2004, more than one out of every four Iranian immigrants was a refugee or asylee." (Wikipedia page on Iranian-Americans). Not sure how the numbers have evolved since then, but "one in four" is far from most. And this is for immigrants in general, not green card holders.
- accountface 10y ago
  This comment is so factually incorrect that I actually feel sorry for the person posting it.
marcell 10y ago
This may come off as cynical but I think Travis, and similar SV figures like Elon Musk and Sam Altman are giving Donald Trump too much credit. He is a 70 year old man who just won the presidency with no prior political experience, spewing angry divisive comments against all sorts of weak minority groups. He has a massive following who cheers his divisive comments against foreigners and and against the press. Yet in spite of this, some commentators (see Travis) think that "if only" he gets some good advice, everything will be just fine. This is a bias of smart, reasonable people: they assume others are the same. They are treating it as a reasonable person who is just misguided. In fact, the opposite is true. Trump has shown that his values are not aligned with traditional free democracy as we've known it in America. Giving him some good advice or trying to talk reason is futile, and moreover will result in endorsement by association.
- scott_karana 10y ago
  What exactly do you suggest instead, then? :/
  - mildbow 10y ago
    Like all movements, the act that makes the most difference is the one that takes most courage. A willingness to do, a willingness to lead, not just wait for/on a leader. Mass rallies/sit-ins (non-violent ones) is the only real way the people of the United States of America can let their government know how they feel. Call me a cynic, but calling your senator wont help. Trump has shown that he moves much faster than government is wont to do.
  - marcell 10y ago
    If you're a CEO of a big company like Uber, don't lend him legitimacy by association. If you're just a median US citizen, you can donate some money to groups like the ACLU, vote, or call your representatives.g
primitivesuave 10y ago
Travis Kalanick and "standing up for what's right" are mutually exclusive. I thought this would be about finally paying Uber drivers more than starvation wages, and was not too surprised to see it is just a PR stunt.
auternach 10y ago
Anyone wondering what the "pro" argument possibly could be: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-re.... If you actually want to leave your bubble, read both sides on every issue. If you want to remain in your bubble, read the screaming twitter comments and media only. Choice is yours. Even the "pro" arguers have serious reservations in this case.
- macrael 10y ago
  What's the pro argument for the wall?
- fingerprinter 10y ago
  The National Review? C'mon. That's like quoting Ayn Rand and hoping to be taken seriously.
  - bballer 10y ago
    Well, did you read it? An excerpt: However, there are reports that the ban is being applied even to green-card holders. This is madness. The plain language of the order doesn’t apply to legal permanent residents of the U.S., and green-card holders have been through round after round of vetting and security checks. The administration should intervene, immediately, to stop misapplication. If, however, the Trump administration continues to apply the order to legal permanent residents, it should indeed be condemned. And another: First, the order temporarily halts refugee admissions for 120 days to improve the vetting process, then caps refugee admissions at 50,000 per year. Outrageous, right? Not so fast. Before 2016, when Obama dramatically ramped up refugee admissions, Trump’s 50,000 stands roughly in between a typical year of refugee admissions in George W. Bush’s two terms and a typical year in Obama’s two terms.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
hackuser 10y ago
It's nice, but there is no statement about discrimination based on religion or nationality, or xenophobia in general. His objections seem to result from poor execution: If the ban were better executed so his drivers weren't as affected, would he have any objections? Also: I agreed in early December to join President Trump’s economic advisory group along with Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla), Mary Barra (Chairwoman/CEO of General Motors), Indra Nooyi (Chairwoman/CEO of Pepsi), Ginni Rometty (Chairwoman/CEO of IBM), Bob Iger (Chairman/CEO of Disney), Jack Welch (former Chairman of GE) and a dozen other business leaders. Kalanick and all those people lend their credibility to Trump and his policies.
llamataboot 10y ago
Uber is currently scabbing to break a taxi strike at JFK that is being done against this immigration ban. Kalanick is actively collaborating with Trump.
owly 10y ago
READY? Boycott Uber. Do not use under any circumstances.
diebir 10y ago
As an Uber employee, I would also like to NOT see TK at the Trump's "business forum". Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and others are staying away.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

402 points by smaili 10y ago

Clear message, clear call to action, clear action with the ability to leverage what he is advocating while acknowledging and respecting opposing perspectives. This had substance and was clear and articulate. It's exactly what Sam's Time to Take a Stand post is missing.

gogopuppygogo 10y ago

Glad to see the tech industry leaders taking a stand on these immigration issues. Sam Altman and Travis are being very public but I'm sure many are working the system behind the scenes and there will be more public results in the future. The fight has just begun. It's just a matter of time now till they to tear apart net neutrality. Trump might just be the wake up call the nation needed to wake up and stop being so complacent.

eplanit 10y ago
> It's just a matter of time now till they to tear apart net neutrality. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13474079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13474079 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/fcc-to-be-led-by-ajit-pai-staunch-opponent-of-consumer-protection-rules/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/01/fcc-to-be-led-by...
edblarney 10y ago
"Trump might just be the wake up call the nation needed to wake up and stop being so complacent." I'll bet that at least 50% of Americans support the premise of a 'temporary ban on entry of people from areas of open conflict or that are governed by jihadi entities'. Point being - there are many Americans who believe that Trump is the 'wake up call'. I think there is a lot of danger from people living inside social bubbles making assumptions about what the 'proverbial we' should or are thinking about what is right or wrong. By the way - I think this exec order is a political gesture. After 90 days, everyone who was to come to the US, will end up coming. I believe that most entrants are fairly well vetted already, and that things will get back to normal pretty quickly, with some minor adjustments so that Trump can claim his order was needed and warranted.
- Retra 10y ago
  At least 50% of anybody will answer anyway you like to a loaded question.

nemesisj 10y ago

It's great to see Uber come out so publically against this travesty of a Presidential executive order. It's a despicable act and all Americans should be ashamed of what's happening. That said, it's interesting to see a company that has regularly ignored the law to build their business dive into the fray. They've also employed many of the same tactics of bullying, just like Trump. Perhaps that's what we need? Perhaps the DNA of fighting and ignoring regulations will come in handy...I just wish it didn't have to. The whole thing is just sad.

edblarney 10y ago
"It's a despicable act and all Americans should be ashamed of what's happening." I think it's rather arrogant to assume that your moral position is 'what all Americans should think or else they are immoral'. I'm weary of the executive order myself ... but it's not entirely irrational to temporarily ban entry of people from nations that are in open conflict and from areas wherein the only 'governance' is that of a jihadist entity. Except Iran - all the others are serious conflict zones, wherein many participants would gladly act against the USA. Have you looked at a political map of Libya or Yemen lately? Scary stuff. What is 'despicable' is the wailing and misrepresentation of the issue across the board. If Obama were to have done this after a terrorist attack (say, a 'shooting' in Cali or whatever) - and it was done quietly and reasonably so that those with green cards etc. would be allowed in - and so that people 'on flights' would not be affected, I don't think there would be such a huge fuss. I believe that after 90 days, most of those who would be coming to America will still be coming in. This will de-facto boil down to a unnecessary political disruption ... but it's both fair and within the bounds of responsible reason to recognize the fact that Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Iraq etc. are very dangerous places, much more so than most places, and that some extra precautions are possibly necessary. I don't really support it, but it's not out of bounds for people to think it's necessary. Iran though - that's purely political (admittedly, it's probably all political). Jihadis don't come from Iran.
- dkarapetyan 10y ago
  The influx is the refugees fleeing the conflict. These are exactly the people that we want to support because they are peaceful and are not contributing to the conflict. In those 90 days lives that could have been saved might be lost all because we have a moron in charge. Inaction is not acceptable and fighting this thing tooth and nail is the right thing to do because historical precedent says it only gets worse from here.

earthly10x 10y ago

To address the trump problem, we must have a good understanding of trump himself, his DNA and this clip helps with that I noticed: https://youtu.be/CTzBZuPx1lQ?t=1643 https://youtu.be/CTzBZuPx1lQ?t=1643

DanBC 10y ago

I booked my first Uber ride because of this post.

notforgot 10y ago
Have an upvote. You shouldn't be downvoted for expressing yourself.

djsumdog 10y ago

This is really shitty. Regardless of what you think of the immigration issue, blocking legal residents from entering the US is absolutely terrible. It's a contract violation from the US government. This order essentially says America doesn't care you're a full legal resident, because you hold a citizenship from this limited subset of countries (many of which we're bombing), you can't come back. (America is bombing seven countries by the way, in case anyone forgot. Our last president is the first in history to have the US in armed conflict for every day of his presidency. He will not be the last.) What I also hate is that Uber tries to play the PR game and show themselves as the great guys here. Forget that they pay their drivers peanuts, that drivers have to drive up to 30% more now to make the same wages as just a few years ago, and that many are calling Uber to unionise. I hate they way everyone is just using people to further their message and forgetting that these are people.

freddyc 10y ago
> What I also hate is that Uber tries to play the PR game and show themselves as the great guys here. Forget that they pay their drivers peanuts, that drivers have to drive up to 30% more now to make the same wages as just a few years ago, and that many are calling Uber to unionise. I hate they way everyone is just using people to further their message and forgetting that these are people. This +100. From what friends who were early at Uber tell me, this is not consistent with his character and feels like a PR grab. This issue is beyond f'd up, and while I guess any attention is good attention if it causes action, I draw the line at giving credit for cheap PR stunts.
- anarazel 10y ago
  So what? What'd be right thing to do in this case? I disagree with Uber on a bunch of things, but me judging them to do the wrong thing on some issues, doesn't prevent them doing the right thing on others. By critizing them for doing the right thing you're just disincentivizing from doing the right thing again. I think this line of argument weakens "our" position considerably.
  - 10y ago

redsummer 10y ago

Why isn't Saudi Arabia on the list?

woodhull 10y ago
Because that might hurt Trump's own business interests: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-excludes-countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-ex...
- TillE 10y ago
  This is looking at two effects and deciding one of them is the cause. Saudi Arabia is a close ally of the US. That's the really horrific truth, and that's why Trump has business there and not in countries which the US is less friendly with.
  - woodhull 10y ago
    We can't really know whether it's because of his biz interests or because America is friendly with the Saudi regime. This is why Trump's refusal to divest himself from his businesses is an unacceptable conflict of interest even if he insists it is fine and there are no grounds to question it.
mattlevan 10y ago
Because the list of countries was drafted by Obama's administration. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187
- mgiannopoulos 10y ago
  Source?
  - Malician 10y ago
    https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-list-of-muslim-countries-trump-wants-to-ban-was-compiled-by-the-obama-administration#.4IZpXgKyN https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-list-of-muslim-countries... This, of course, excuses the action not at all. But it does explain the choice of countries. (and, of course, Obama didn't tell Trump which list to pick.)

employee8000 10y ago

As an Uber employee, I'm morbidly curious as to how HN will spin this into something negative. :) For the record, I'm super proud of working at Uber because those on the outside never see the things we do for our drivers. This is a big one and I'm really proud. You just don't see this on the news that often because who knows. I've said this before but the Uber of the last 2 years is not the same Uber from 2013/2014. As a company it has grown up and matured and realizes the responsibilities it has to its drivers, riders and cities.

general_ai 10y ago
Put your hands in the air and step away from the kool-aid dispenser.
- wott 10y ago
  He has already proven in others threads that he dried up the dispenser.
kevindong 10y ago
Could you expand on how Uber has changed?
- tyingq 10y ago
  This from Kalanick was unexpected to me: "We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro bono during the next three months" You could argue it's just a PR thing, I suppose, but it certainly wasn't something I expected to see.
maxerickson 10y ago
What's the average hourly earnings of a busy driver after they pay their expenses (vehicle amortization, insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc.)?
- inverse_pi 10y ago

tabeth 10y ago

Firstly, I'd like to point out that Travis' post was spot on (I abhor Trump's policies, so the more big names speaking out against him, the better). However, is Travis really the best messenger? Is this just glorified PR or does he actually care? I can't read his mind, so we can only judge from his actions. Let's see what he's done to "stand up for what's right" in regards to his own organization (this isn't exhaustive, at all): - Uber employees order fake rides to sink competitor [1] - Blaming the media for suggesting Uber is liable [2] - Blind passengers denied rides [3] - Uber executives looking into critics' personal lives [4] ---- You may think those things are irrelevant, but one should practice what they preach, especially when they have a post titled: "Standing up for what's right." My examples, by the way, only scratch the surface to Uber's own shady practices. [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-against-nyc-competition-cam-1508280668 http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-again... [2] https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-most-awful-things-travis-kalanick-said-in-his-gq-profile/ https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-m... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/10/uber-sued-for-allegedly-refusing-rides-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-trunk/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/1... [4] http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-digging-up-dirt-on-journalists#.agOZK3GPR http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-dig...

davidw 10y ago
> really the best messenger The more messengers, the better. This is authoritarianism, pure and simple. It's not remotely about security or anything else.
- tabeth 10y ago
  I disagree. Would you be saying this if Pence wrote this post? I would imagine you'd call him out on his hypocrisy. More messengers are good only if they actually believe what they're saying.
  - davidw 10y ago
    You mean like this? https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433 https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433

whenwillitstop 10y ago

Travis Kalanick, standing up for the cheap labor that drives his Ubers and writes it's code.

mavdi 10y ago
Yet you're more than likely an avid user of this conveniently provided, reasonably priced and reliable service.
- whenwillitstop 10y ago
  You are right, I am. That doesnt change the underlying reasons for a company like Uber to make this statement. It is manipulation of the public, intended to make Uber look moral, as well as intended to reassure their cheap labor base. The fact that people on here are championing it shows how effective this kind of PR is, even among the educated people of HN.
  - Groxx 10y ago
    What's the alternative for Uber? Silence?
    - whenwillitstop 10y ago
      I'm just saying, it is no coincidence that they say this. There are a lot of influences like this Uber statement that are doing the same thing. Most people are not aware
      - Groxx 10y ago
        but basically you're saying if they say nothing, it's horrible. if they say anything good, it's a PR stunt. so they're incapable of doing anything positive? which you may think and are welcome to do so, but it seems a teensy bit prejudicial to me.
        10y ago

schappim 10y ago

I was expecting Uber to ban the Trump administration from using Uber, but instead was pleased see a far classier move to help out drivers stuck outside the country: >> We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro bono during the next three months to help mitigate some of the financial stress and complications with supporting their families and putting food on the table. We will have more details on this in the coming days.

paradox95 10y ago

Too bad he's silent for the past year when these issues were obviously going to happen. He allowed it to happen. And now he's quietly giving Trump lip service behind closed doors. He (Travis + Uber) doesn't give a damn about anyone. As long as they can get some Uber-friendly policy from Trump they'll continue to let him do whatever he wants. They are enabling him by working with him on other issues while ignoring this. Such PR bullshit. Trying to look good in the public eye.

explainthisth 10y ago
How do you plan the help the US residents stranded overseas?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

obi1kenobi 10y ago

Interesting bit: Travis Kalanick pledges that Uber will compensate drivers stuck overseas because of the executive orders.

toephu2 10y ago
And how many of those are there? Do you think many uber drivers can afford to go overseas? Yes a few, but I doubt it's a high number. This is just a PR stunt.

tptacek 10y ago

Please consider: It's heartening to see tech CEOs speak out against bigotry and disheartening to see other tech leaders remain quiet and it all makes a potent narrative and easy access to the tops of message board front pages. But it does not. actually. matter. what tech leadership does. We are not all sitting dutifully in our seats at Moscone waiting to see what "one more thing" from CEOs and venture capitalists is going to look like. We're also not prisoners of the management of companies whose CEOs join the administration or attend summits at Trump's garish Barad-Dûfus. It may not be true for all workers in all industries but as someone who's been working in tech for more than 20 years I'm telling you that our management needs us more than we need them. There has never been a better market for our services or a set of employers more dependent on our goodwill and cooperation than in 2017. Do not wait for your firm's CEO to take a stand. Organize with your coworkers. If you don't know how to get started doing that, start thinking of stabs you can take at the problem. Organizing is a problem where code actually might make a difference. Organize a pledge, or a group statement, or meetups. Or some other idea we haven't come up with yet. A lot of engineers want to believe their work is apolitical. I understand the impulse. But your work is political whether you want it to be or not. If you don't put your market power to use for your beliefs, you're just accepting your employer's default settings, and putting it to work for theirs. Don't accept the defaults. Organize your workplace. You have a crazy amount of influence you're not using right now. It won't always be like this; don't waste the opportunity. Places to start: The Indivisible guide: https://www.indivisibleguide.com/ https://www.indivisibleguide.com/ --- there are at least 10 software projects buried in this thing, but also remember the same ideas apply on a smaller scale both in local politics and at your work place. https://twitter.com/techsolidarity https://twitter.com/techsolidarity --- show up to one of these. They're well attended and they'll interface you to your local (serious) activist community, people actually working with those at risk. Also things I've said in the last few days that I'd rather not repeat but are relevant: On calling your reps: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=13509555 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=13509555 --- please punch your Senators and Congresspeople's numbers into your speed dial. On running for office: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493366 --- please convince a friend to run for local office. On U2F, TOTP, and SMS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13493100 --- please disable SMS authentication on services that will let you. :) If you're building applications to ensure that people put pressure on their local representatives or, even better, to get normal people to run for local elected office, I want to help!

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

rocky1138 10y ago

Ghostery blocked this. Does anyone have a text dump?

Groxx 10y ago
This afternoon I sent the email below to Uber employees and thought I would include here: Subject: Standing up for what's right Team, Yesterday President Trump signed an executive order suspending entry of citizens from seven countries—Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen—to the United States for at least the next 90 days. Our People Ops team has already reached out to the dozen or so employees who we know are affected: for example, those who live and work in the U.S., are legal residents but not naturalized citizens will not be able to get back into the country if they are traveling outside of the U.S. now or anytime in the next 90 days. Anyone who believes that this order could impact them should contact our immigration team immediately. This order has far broader implications as it also affects thousands of drivers who use Uber and come from the listed countries, many of whom take long breaks to go back home to see their extended family. These drivers currently outside of the U.S. will not be able to get back into the country for 90 days. That means they will not be able to earn a living and support their families—and of course they will be separated from their loved ones during that time. We are working out a process to identify these drivers and compensate them pro bono during the next three months to help mitigate some of the financial stress and complications with supporting their families and putting food on the table. We will have more details on this in the coming days. While every government has their own immigration controls, allowing people from all around the world to come here and make America their home has largely been the U.S.’s policy since its founding. That means this ban will impact many innocent people—an issue that I will raise this coming Friday when I go to Washington for President Trump’s first business advisory group meeting. Ever since Uber’s founding we’ve had to work with governments and politicians of all political persuasions across hundreds of cities and dozens of countries. Though we share common ground with many of them, we have had areas of disagreement with each of them. In some cases we’ve had to stand and fight to make progress, other times we’ve been able to effect change from within through persuasion and argument. But whatever the city or country—from the U.S. and Mexico to China and Malaysia—we’ve taken the view that in order to serve cities you need to give their citizens a voice, a seat at the table. We partner around the world optimistically in the belief that by speaking up and engaging we can make a difference. Our experience is that not doing so shortchanges cities and the people who live in them. This is why I agreed in early December to join President Trump’s economic advisory group along with Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla), Mary Barra (Chairwoman/CEO of General Motors), Indra Nooyi (Chairwoman/CEO of Pepsi), Ginni Rometty (Chairwoman/CEO of IBM), Bob Iger (Chairman/CEO of Disney), Jack Welch (former Chairman of GE) and a dozen other business leaders. I understand that many people internally and externally may not agree with that decision, and that’s OK. It's the magic of living in America that people are free to disagree. But whatever your view please know that I’ve always believed in principled confrontation and just change; and have never shied away (maybe to my detriment) from fighting for what’s right. Thanks, Travis Kalanick

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Fr0styMatt88 10y ago

How is Trump seemingly doing so much, so quickly? Looking in from the outside, it seems like all the political process that Obama had to go through just isn't applicable? The example I always comforted myself with w.r.t to Trump was Obama trying to get the gun laws changed - even the POTUS couldn't do it. So then he mustn't have unlimited power. So what's going on here? I'm really curious how executive orders work in the US. Are they just the first step in a process, or do they override any democratic process? The latter seems to be what all the reporting is implying, but I don't know if that's hyperbole or true.

maxerickson 10y ago
Congress writes laws that delegate wide authority over certain things to the President (and thus the various executive agencies of the government). A lot of the immigration process happens to be one of them. Gun control largely isn't.
- mavelikara 10y ago
  Even if you take just the immigration process, the OP's point stands.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    It's a temporary, 90-day hold on entry of people from countries that have open conflict among jihadist groups (except Iran). So I think the legal footing that Trump is trying to make is with respect to 'security'. And it's temporary. So those two things: that's it's for 'national security' and 'temporary' may make this within his power. After 9/11 - Bush did a somewhat similar thing - changed the entry rules temporarily while new legislation/processes was enacted. It's going to be a long 4 years, we need to saver our energy for the right fights. I'll bet $1000 that after 90 days, the system will remain de-facto the same as it was before. The 'long term' fight that is really relevant to 'us nerds' I think will be net-neutrality. That will be permanent.
    - 10y ago

rdl 10y ago

What he and other business advisory group meeting people say on Friday is going to have more impact than any number of street protests.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

earthly100x 10y ago

This explains the situation quite well... https://i.reddituploads.com/46d57a935ef947d499ab635cefff2e8e?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=b7aee28893004c16fabdbe81a7962b59 https://i.reddituploads.com/46d57a935ef947d499ab635cefff2e8e...

throw2016 10y ago

I don't support this action but how can you reconcile being offended by this action and yet be blase while we nonchalantly bombs others daily leading to the complete devastation of entire countries and their people. This does not seem consistent. One is right to move freely and the other is right to live. Why is this so much worse than the other? This is just one more in a line of negative actions towards a particular region and its people who are being abused and killed for self serving geo-political and economic reasons.

throw2016 10y ago
Too cynical and I take back this comment. Am impressed with the level of activism and response. Well done.

xacaxulu 10y ago

The virtue signaling is strong with this one.

legodt 10y ago
When did "virtue signalling" become the de facto insult against people standing up for human rights? I've been seeing it a lot around hacker news and from various alt right outlets. I've seen it exclusively in dismissive tones to imply that advocacy only exists in a performative dimension.
- diyorgasms 10y ago
  I find it amusing because the implication is that the alt-right views virtue as a perjorative.
jsavit 10y ago
Using your influence and means to promote positive change isn't virtue signaling. This isn't the same as adding a filter to your facebook profile picture.

empy 10y ago

America is so divided now. So maybe it's better just to divide America into liberal America and conservative America. This is better for both left and right side.

revx 10y ago
Some people tried that in the 1860s, and it didn't go very well...
- Retra 10y ago
  Admittedly, there was a much larger threat of large-scale foreign invasion at the time.
ktRolster 10y ago
It's better for us to come together and resolve our differences.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
And how do you propose we do that? It isn't like the country is divided in any simple way.

camperman 10y ago

"While every government has their own immigration controls, allowing people from all around the world to come here and make America their home has largely been the U.S.’s policy since its founding." Nonsense.

orblivion 10y ago

They say Trump is easily swayed by people he meets with. Let's hope this works.

ArtDev 10y ago
His first meeting is with Vladimir Putin..
- orblivion 10y ago
  Well more specifically, it's whoever he met with more recently :-D

xacaxulu 10y ago

Travis likes breaking any law that stands in the way of him making money and breaking into new markets. Now that he disagrees with an Executive order (that really means he's being deprived of a cheap source of labor), he's come out in full PR mode. You can like or dislike Trump, but Kalanick is a hypocrite through and through.

orblivion 10y ago
Call him on opportunist, but a hypocrite? This is just another bit of government in his way.
pfarnsworth 10y ago
Lol your post doesn't even make sense. According to your own logic, he's fighting local government laws, ie. breaking laws, and now he's fighting an executive order that he disagrees with, so that makes him a... hypocrite? I think you don't quite understand what that word means.

mangeletti 10y ago

Is this 2017? We're taking ethics lessons from the CEO of Uber?

EGreg 10y ago

I thought this guy largely had a reputation as an asshole ... but here he comes off as downright responsible and caring.

jmspring 10y ago

Let's not forget this: http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/technology/uber-ceo-trump/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/25/technology/uber-ceo-trump/

bamboozled 10y ago

Who really cares what this hypocrite and other US based technology CEOs like him think. For them it's fine to totally to run companies who: * Abuse user privacy. * Constatntly pretend they are driving positive social progress. * Track people in a non-transparent, disrespectful way. * Build echo chambers to keep people ill-informed and hooked on using services. * Avoid paying tax. * Automate people out of jobs, while not contributing to wellfare systems. * Get rich off state owned infrastructure and give little to nothing back. * Give money to political parties. * Exploit cheap labor. * Censor things for government agencies. However, as soon as profts are at risk, they decide to come out swinging. Where is the outrage when a child goes hungry in Africa, or a person is bombed in Syria by a US drone? The billions and billions of dollars tied up in these companies should be going back into communities, education, medical and food aid. Not on "moonshots", and ambiguous charity initiaivies which only go towards lining their pockets further. It's companies that operate in this way which gave Trump a voice, knowingly or unknowningly. Trump didn't just magic himself into the Whitehouse, did he? I feel sorry for anyone affected by this but having CEOs throwing bullshit into the bonfire won't help. Everyone is responsible for the current situation, it's not just the actions of one man.

FLGMwt 10y ago
Even if I was a saint, I'd rather give this message to an asshat with an audience.
dang 10y ago
Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. That makes flamewars both flamier and less substantive, and you could hardly have stuffed this one with more genera. Also, name-calling ('this hypocrite') is against HN's rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Please don't do that here.

baybal2 10y ago

+1 to that guy, even if it is a PR move

MilesHildebrand 10y ago

Finally a voice of reason.

fdsaaf 10y ago

I'm an American citizen and a very senior software engineer. I'm also a white male. Immigration restrictions will raise my wages. These measures also infuriate those who regularly denounce my race and gender in the name of fake "diversity". Why shouldn't I be in favor of this program? Of course, in public, I'll denounce Trump, but in private, I'll root for expanding bans and reducing the H1-B supply. While I'm sure that corporate executives feel a certain personal level of frustration with this administration, I suspect that the prospect of rising labor costs also prompt a certain shrill activism. My stance is indeed cynical. I'm an unabashed cynic. Cynicism doesn't make me wrong. While it's true that many people in the valley are foreign-born and that wages are high, wages are still far below the value each worker produces. Take a major tech company. Divide its annual profit by the number of people it employs. The difference between that number and the money you're paid is the value of your work that you've failed to capture.

good_sir_ant 10y ago
Long term though... bans, tarriffs, protections of any kind are all ill conceived. You will absolutely get a boost in wages, but the cost is quite significant. Shortening supply artificially always raises prices, and ends up meaning the same amount of output costs more to achieve than it otherwise would without the restrictions. Why would any economy want entertain that for too long?
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  You're right --- but as John Maynard Keynes famously wrote, "In the long run, we're all dead". In the medium term, it is unreasonable to expect middle America to compete with workers from countries with no environmental laws, no safety regulations, and no worker safety. Likewise, it is unreasonable for ask us free people to compete with H1-B holders who cannot leave their jobs without being deported. Besides, historically speaking, we make productivity advances fastest when labor is expensive. In a sea of cheap labor, technology stagnates. Of course, in the long run, we're going to have a single integrated global economy. But a policy of immediate free trade and free movement is not a feasible or fair way of getting to this state.
10y ago

danols 10y ago

Takes a certain type of arrogance to play the high card with the track record and reputation that he has. He has zero credibility when it comes to standing up for what is right.

quakeguy 10y ago

Only a glimpse of what is to come i fear, lets hope the best.

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ChuckMcM 10y ago

I suppose he could pull out of DC

mnglkhn2 10y ago

There multiple ways somebody can get a green card. I suspect that the majority of those w. green cards and citizenship from the seven countries that were banned have obtained these green cards by way of refugee status. I have nothing against helping refugees escape atrocities in their home countries. If possible, good for them. The problem I see is that there is an inherent unfairness in this process when compared to those who try to immigrate legally, especially when using the H1B process. A refugees obtains a green card in a matter of months if not 1 year at most. With no particularly serious/harsh vetting. Look at what this has brought, considering that all the past attacks (Boston, California, Florida) where done by people that entered US by this rout. An H1B has to usually wait if somewhere between 8-16years, sometimes more just to get the green card. And for every step, they are scrutinized and verified in the most intimate detail. In my opinion this is not a fair process. And, personally, I am ok with increasing the scrutiny on those that apply for refugee status.

djsumdog 10y ago
I don't think you even remotely understand what a green card is or how difficult they are to get. Green cards indicate legal resident status. You must hold one for five years before even being able to apply for citizenship. They are not H1-B visas. They aren't holiday work visas. Having a green card means you must always file taxes even if you leave (the United States is the only country to do this. The US is also one of two countries in the world that tax citizens who don't live there). The US doesn't have a "permanent resident without travel restrictions" type visa, so it is literally the highest visa short of citizenship you can hold.
umanwizard 10y ago
"From 1980 to 2004, more than one out of every four Iranian immigrants was a refugee or asylee." (Wikipedia page on Iranian-Americans). Not sure how the numbers have evolved since then, but "one in four" is far from most. And this is for immigrants in general, not green card holders.
accountface 10y ago
This comment is so factually incorrect that I actually feel sorry for the person posting it.

marcell 10y ago

This may come off as cynical but I think Travis, and similar SV figures like Elon Musk and Sam Altman are giving Donald Trump too much credit. He is a 70 year old man who just won the presidency with no prior political experience, spewing angry divisive comments against all sorts of weak minority groups. He has a massive following who cheers his divisive comments against foreigners and and against the press. Yet in spite of this, some commentators (see Travis) think that "if only" he gets some good advice, everything will be just fine. This is a bias of smart, reasonable people: they assume others are the same. They are treating it as a reasonable person who is just misguided. In fact, the opposite is true. Trump has shown that his values are not aligned with traditional free democracy as we've known it in America. Giving him some good advice or trying to talk reason is futile, and moreover will result in endorsement by association.

scott_karana 10y ago
What exactly do you suggest instead, then? :/
- mildbow 10y ago
  Like all movements, the act that makes the most difference is the one that takes most courage. A willingness to do, a willingness to lead, not just wait for/on a leader. Mass rallies/sit-ins (non-violent ones) is the only real way the people of the United States of America can let their government know how they feel. Call me a cynic, but calling your senator wont help. Trump has shown that he moves much faster than government is wont to do.
- marcell 10y ago
  If you're a CEO of a big company like Uber, don't lend him legitimacy by association. If you're just a median US citizen, you can donate some money to groups like the ACLU, vote, or call your representatives.g

primitivesuave 10y ago

Travis Kalanick and "standing up for what's right" are mutually exclusive. I thought this would be about finally paying Uber drivers more than starvation wages, and was not too surprised to see it is just a PR stunt.

auternach 10y ago

Anyone wondering what the "pro" argument possibly could be: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-re.... If you actually want to leave your bubble, read both sides on every issue. If you want to remain in your bubble, read the screaming twitter comments and media only. Choice is yours. Even the "pro" arguers have serious reservations in this case.

macrael 10y ago
What's the pro argument for the wall?
fingerprinter 10y ago
The National Review? C'mon. That's like quoting Ayn Rand and hoping to be taken seriously.
- bballer 10y ago
  Well, did you read it? An excerpt: However, there are reports that the ban is being applied even to green-card holders. This is madness. The plain language of the order doesn’t apply to legal permanent residents of the U.S., and green-card holders have been through round after round of vetting and security checks. The administration should intervene, immediately, to stop misapplication. If, however, the Trump administration continues to apply the order to legal permanent residents, it should indeed be condemned. And another: First, the order temporarily halts refugee admissions for 120 days to improve the vetting process, then caps refugee admissions at 50,000 per year. Outrageous, right? Not so fast. Before 2016, when Obama dramatically ramped up refugee admissions, Trump’s 50,000 stands roughly in between a typical year of refugee admissions in George W. Bush’s two terms and a typical year in Obama’s two terms.
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hackuser 10y ago

It's nice, but there is no statement about discrimination based on religion or nationality, or xenophobia in general. His objections seem to result from poor execution: If the ban were better executed so his drivers weren't as affected, would he have any objections? Also: I agreed in early December to join President Trump’s economic advisory group along with Elon Musk (CEO of Tesla), Mary Barra (Chairwoman/CEO of General Motors), Indra Nooyi (Chairwoman/CEO of Pepsi), Ginni Rometty (Chairwoman/CEO of IBM), Bob Iger (Chairman/CEO of Disney), Jack Welch (former Chairman of GE) and a dozen other business leaders. Kalanick and all those people lend their credibility to Trump and his policies.

llamataboot 10y ago

Uber is currently scabbing to break a taxi strike at JFK that is being done against this immigration ban. Kalanick is actively collaborating with Trump.

owly 10y ago

READY? Boycott Uber. Do not use under any circumstances.

diebir 10y ago

As an Uber employee, I would also like to NOT see TK at the Trump's "business forum". Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and others are staying away.

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