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USDA disavows gag-order emailed to scientific research unit
- st3v3r 10y agoIt is the duty of every scientist working at all of these government agencies to ensure that data continues to be made public, no matter who is in the White House.
- kafkaesq 10y agoThey also have (as bullies like Trump know all too well) a duty to feed their families, pay the mortgages, and save for their children's education. At least until they find another job (in the wonderfully lucrative and liquid job market for research scientists of our current era). And probably wouldn't appreciate outsiders telling them which duty is more inviolable, or sacrosanct.
- st3v3r 10y agoThen they should have taken private sector jobs. I'm sorry, but if they do not resist Trump, then they are complacent in his bullying.
- clumsysmurf 10y agoIts sad that out president is a bully. The problem of how the establishment bullies the rest of society is only going to get worse. "Bully Nation: How the American Establishment Creates a Bullying Society" https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0700622608 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0700622608
- noobermin 10y ago>(in the wonderfully lucrative and liquid job market for research scientists of our current era) Surely you jest. I think you mean in the private sector. A scientist joins a national lab or institution not for the pay, but for academic and research reasons.
- headcanon 10y agoThey're not mutually exclusive. Scientists have been putting together open data repositories as a "Trump shelter" ever since election day. Data that is publicly available today can be downloaded and stored anywhere, and the government can't do anything about it other than cast FUD. Honestly, assuming all our data is preserved in some form, I think its almost a blessing in disguise. finding and downloading public datasets involves wading through a cornucopia of terrible websites that feel like they're deliberately trying to keep people out. Government science shops don't typically hire UX people, so allowing those people to get their hands on some open data services can't be bad.
- ktRolster 10y agoThey're not mutually exclusive. Scientists have been putting together open data repositories as a "Trump shelter" ever since election day Yet another good thing the Trump election has (inadvertently) caused.
- jonlucc 10y agoThis assumes there are no downsides to not receiving any new data from these agencies for 4 years (or 8).
- headcanon 10y agoYeah, that part doesn't sound so great :/
- jonlucc 10y agoThis assumes there are no downsides to not receiving any new data from these agencies for 4 years (or 8).
- SapphireSun 10y agoIt's true that there are competing concerns, but that is why we hold up dissenters that safeguard the public interest as heroes. They are making a noble attempt to protect the public in times of adversity.
- noobermin 10y agoAnother point to make is the USDA is not the NSA or the CIA, you can't keep a cap on mostly left-leaning scientists and expect it to hold. It won't work.
- mi100hael 10y agoHell, look how many leaks were coming out of the FBI in the weeks leading up to the election. Keeping a blanket gag on any bureaucracy is a futile endeavor.
- mschuster91 10y ago> Keeping a blanket gag on any bureaucracy is a futile endeavor. Look what Obama did to Snowden and Manning, and that from a Democratic president. Trump meanwhile has stated multiple times that he supports torture and Guantanamo - I don't know if I'd have the courage to be a leaker under a President Trump. One thing is for sure - anyone caught leaking anything opposing or contradicting Trump will spend a long time behind bars or worse.
- burkaman 10y agoIs it illegal to leak non-classified information? I think at worst you would be fired.
- mschuster91 10y ago> I think at worst you would be fired. Remember "Three felonies a day"? When you're targeted by Trump or his cronies, you don't stand a chance.
- omegaworks 10y ago>mostly left-leaning scientists I know it's popular to say "reality has a liberal bias" but I don't think it does us a service to keep promoting that myth.
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- mark_l_watson 10y agoBummer. I use the USDA nutrition database. I wonder if updates to that also would not be released publicly.
- stephancoral 10y agoWith all these gag orders going around (USDA, EPA) we are gonna need some deep throats...
- ceejayoz 10y agoWe've got our first one today. http://time.com/4645927/badlands-national-park-climate-change-tweets/ http://time.com/4645927/badlands-national-park-climate-chang...
- c0nducktr 10y ago...aaaand the tweets have already been purged.
- cantblockatoot 10y agoThe value proposition of https://mastodon.social https://mastodon.social (and GNU Social in general) has just made itself abundantly clear. From its homepage: A decentralized alternative to commercial platforms, it avoids the risks of a single company monopolizing your communication.
- dmode 10y agoI am wondering the legality of this gag order. Doesn't the US Taxpayer own scientific research and data in these agencies ? Unless these are national security related, how can a government branch prohibit release of taxpayer funded research data ?
- zbyte64 10y agoDevil's advocate: The public can still get the research data through a FOIA request.
- elastic_church 10y agoMeta devil's advocate: you might be surprised how often an agency "can't find" or otherwise denies a FOIA request Check out Government Accountability Office reports.
- travmatt 10y agoI like how the CIA says 'go fuck yourself' when they send back pages of completely blacked out text in response to FOIA requests.
- losteric 10y agoSimple: They want to shut down taxpayer funded research. If they shut down public data access, you can bet the programs will be shut down soon after.
- cloakandswagger 10y agoAsk yourself this: Do I, a US taxpayer, own everything the government buys with my money? Think I can take a trip to my local military base and use one of "my" tanks? And before you counter that there is a difference between data/research papers and "real" things like tanks, the government (and the media industry, and the scientific industry, and...) don't see it that way. It is intellectual property, owned by the US government.
- 10y ago
- plg 10y agoFormer Prime Minister Stephen Harper tried to do this in Canada. It was bad. Thankfully he and his ideas were soundly rejected in the most recent election.
- jpgvm 10y ago"President Donald Trump has cast doubt on whether man-made climate change is real and has railed against ex-President Barack Obama's efforts to combat it." How is this sort of writing even a thing? He hasn't cast doubt on anything, he has merely made a fool out of himself.
- mmanfrin 10y ago... and then got himself elected.
- ixtli 10y agoThat's neither here nor there. He hasn't cast any doubt, he's simply said things that are contrary to reality. Much as he has done in the past and continues to do.
- mmanfrin 10y agoYes, contrary to reality, his 'alternative facts'. Which are unfortunately the speak of the administration. Doupleplus good! /s
- dekhn 10y agoI disagree. It's pretty clear Trump was very effective in framing the entire narrative in a way that helped people doubt. Trump was very effective at this- he's almost an idiot savant at twitter.
- meddlepal 10y agoThere's two schools of reality... 1. Reality is what we observe and have empirical evidence of. 2. Reality is what what the most vocal group says it is. Anti-intellectualism has given us #2 and now it's in control and probably cannot be stopped for a long time. Welcome... to the future.
- anigbrowl 10y agothe phrase 'cast doubt upon' doesn't necessarily imply that anyone was persuaded, although it would be remiss of me not to observe that there is a willing audience for such specious claims. OK, this is about as productive as trying to have a debate about the existence of ghosts* with someone who isn't even interested in designing experiments, but that's the world we live in right now.
- slg 10y agoCould anyone here make a legitimate argument why these gag-orders are a good idea? I am consistently baffled how a political party can make so many decisions that are objectively wrong and still garner support of roughly 50% of the population. I feel bad for anyone that has legitimate conservative viewpoints on things like fiscal policy. The only people in government that seem to agree with them also happen to be bigoted, anti-science, authoritarians. EDIT: For those responding with some form of "the Democrats are no better", do you honestly not see a difference between the first few days of the Trump administration and every other modern presidency? It isn't about political moves involving topics like abortion, Obamacare, or how to deal with the Middle East. Smart people can have reasonable disagreements on those. However in the last few day he has had his press secretary lie to the American people, suggested the US should commit war crimes, and forbid government agencies from speaking to the public. Things like this used to just be "wrong" but they have now been turned into partisan issues.
- battlebot 10y agoDespite the derision on here, I think the answer is quite simply that the new executive branch wants to get its cabinet up and running and make sure that the messaging by these agencies is in line with the political positions of the leadership. I think the media is making more of this than really exists (as usual) and that these agencies need to remember who is in charge and who ultimately funds them and for what purpose.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago> I am consistently baffled how a political party can make so many decisions that are objectively wrong and still garner support of roughly 50% of the population. Party before country. And before reason. And before reality.
- CobrastanJorji 10y agoWhen your side does it: "government sucks, bureaucrats suck, politics is terrible." When their side does it: "Their side sucks." When it's time to vote: "Well, their side sucks, and government sucks. Maybe my side will fix it."
- pilom 10y agoYes the lack of engagement on social media will be sad but the article itself says that peer reviewed research will still be published. Please RTFA.
- kjbflsudfb 10y agoTo whom are you responding? The original email directed ARS to "not release any public-facing documents." That has been "retracted" for now, but still awaits final clarification.
- pilom 10y agoA number of different responses in the comments were along the lines of "but I/we all own research done with public tax money! how can they do this!" which alarmist given the actual text of the article.
- smudgymcscmudge 10y agoThe article curiously omits who sent the email.
- llamataboot 10y agoTheir control is only equal to our obedience. Leak away patriots!
- llamataboot 10y agoUp to date list of all gag orders: https://sunlightfoundation.com/list-of-federal-government-agencies-told-not-to-communicate-with-the-public/ https://sunlightfoundation.com/list-of-federal-government-ag...
- finid 10y agoWe have a firsthand account of what happens when govt scientists are not free to openly discuss the results of their work without approval from political appointees. That happened during 9/11 when the EPA said the air around the World Trade Center was just fine. Remember that! Many have died, and are still dying because of that lie.
- theparanoid 10y agoBuried the lead "A copy of the interim procedures memo, dated Jan. 23 and seen by Reuters, shows many of the steps reflect either the same or similar measures taken by the previous administration."
- theobon 10y agoIf you are going to post that why would you leave out the section immediately following that addresses why this is newsworthy "The 2017 memo, however, differs in two main areas. It centralizes the agency’s media inquiries and social media presence through the Office of the Secretary. As part of that, the memo asks USDA agencies to “review their websites, blog posts and other social media and, consistent with direction you will receive from the Office of Communication, remove references to policy priorities and initiatives of the previous Administration.” It also rescinds the ability of USDA agencies to close an office or notify local delegations of office closures."
- Sebguer 10y ago*lede
- openasocket 10y agoQuestion: with these gag orders, can't all the information still be gotten through FOIA requests? Sure, there are hurdles, but fundamentally the public has a right to access this information, right?
- coldcode 10y agoYou think this law will be respected any more than any other? Laws—and even the Constitution—are only meaningful if they are enforced. Between Congressional and Executive branch actions, along with a party friendly Supreme Court (once a couple more Judges retire or die) why would you assume any law will be enforced?
- deemize 10y agoRural American farmers backed Trump because they want their grants and subsidies back. (welfare) I say put your own fences up and build your own stack houses. Pay for your own water hookup. Most are polluting the air and water anyway. There should not be a ban of info released but FOIA is a joke in itself. I totally agree with the ban of grants. There's plenty of people in this country willing to grow food for a free market. Can't afford to farm then sell the land daddy gave you and let the REAL new and beginning farmers get a shot at sustainable farming. Look ate ewg.farm.org and see the many local politicians gutting taxpayer money. EPA and USDA shameful.
- dragonwriter 10y agoThis is probably in response to the OSC reminder that the gag orders without whistleblower protection language that have been issued recently are illegal. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/special-counsel-whistleblower-anti-gag-order http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/special-counsel-whistl...