11 ms·

WeChat's App Revolution

131 points by 1gor 10y ago

yalogin 10y ago
What lo the status of user privacy and security in such apps? The user I am guessing should have no such expectations.
- dingdongding 10y ago
  Privacy and China don't play hand in hand.
  - eragoins 10y ago
    Does true Privacy play hand in hand with any country? Since I don't live in China, should this bother me?
    - simonh 10y ago
      Imagine if a country manages to establish a surveillance state with a single cabal in complete political, legal and economic control. Suppose that this establishes a system using modern surveillance and censorship technologies that is so complete in it's control of public and private life that the system is in a permanent steady state. There may be several possible steady states, one might be a pervasive totalitarian surveillance state and another might be a liberal democracy with individual freedoms and a system of checks and ballances. But while both such systems exist in the world, it's possible that one or the other might establish dominance over the other. In fact one or the other winning out seems inevitable in the long term. So as long as an oppressive totalitarian surveillance state exists in the world, there is a risk that it will become the steady state for the whole world. China has such a system. WhatsApp is thoroughly subverted by the Chinese government and is an integral part of their surveillance and censorship apparatus. It might even become the key component that enables complete and permanent stability for the Chinese totalitarian system.
    - pmontra 10y ago
      Check http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/china-launch-social-credit-system-monitor-everything-jaywalking-internet-activity http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/china-launch-social... Then imagine yourself using one of the apps contributing data to that system, even if from outside the country. Oh well, maybe we're already using many of them and we didn't notice.
    - Markoff 10y ago
      nobody censor your private communication in western apps. WeChat does. nobody delete your anti government rant on Facebook. wechat does.
  - ibic 10y ago
    s/China/US/, still sounds equally right (or wrong) to me.
    - frozenport 10y ago
      The US has maybe the potential for surveillance, although it is not clear if and how they act. China actively acts on gathered information to arrest dissidents for thought crimes and protesting its corrupt government. They may soon assign a "citizenship" score, which has little to do with participating in government. Lets not get the two confused.
- DavideNL 10y ago
  i was also wondering about that (privacy); "use our app to do everything"...
okreallywtf 10y ago
Disclaimer: I haven't used WeChat at all, but its mini-programs sound just like apps. Maybe it simplifies the process of installing and using them but what does that do to the security model? Does that mean WeChat is in total control of your information, providing it to 3rd parties that you may not have verified for yourself? Granted, there are plenty of problems with apps and security as it is, but at least you can have separate registrations for each and one sketchy app doesn't necessarily compromise your whole system. Maybe the article doesn't make the point well or I'm just missing it.
Sanddancer 10y ago
Their "revolution" is using federated logins and an integrated pay service. So a google account or the like and google pay. About the only interesting take home here is that developers would do well to keep their app sizes down and to design for their market. Everything else, you can get from android and from ios today.
- pcr0 10y ago
  The revolution alludes to the fact that one app is taking over everything from social networking, mobile payments, food, ticket sales, ride-hailing, financial products, bill payments, and much more.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
dstaley 10y ago
This is praising WeChat for having a built-in web browser that supports single sign-on and credit card autofill.
- a_c 10y ago
  I find it difficult to understand how these things are revolutionising. Perhaps it has something to do with the culture background of the users?
  - adventured 10y ago
    There's nothing revolutionary about it at all. It appears the author needed something to hype for an article and or doesn't understand what they're writing about very well.
  - pcr0 10y ago
    This video from NYT explains it what makes WeChat revolutionary as a platform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAesMQ6VtK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAesMQ6VtK8 tl;dw The revolution alludes to the fact that one app is taking over everything from social networking, mobile payments, food, ticket sales, ride-hailing, financial products, bill payments, and much more.
    - acchow 10y ago
      I watched the video. I still don't get it. Why would I want one app and company to own all of that? I don't even want one phone manufacturer/platform to own my messaging - I much prefer platform-agnostic Whatsapp over iPhone-only iMessage. Already the smartphone platform I use can do all of social networking, mobile payments, food, ticket sales, ride-hailing, bill payments, etc on ONE device. I just don't see what there is to be gained by pulling all this down into one app? Switching between apps via APIs is already automatic and rather fast, and will only get better over time. The NYT video makes a lot of mention of "you haven't left the app". Why do I care? As long as I haven't left my phone why do I care what app I'm in? Having APIs for apps on a device to talk to each other allows for competition and variety - won't it obviously win out?
EGreg 10y ago
If we don't succeed in decentralizing user identity then centralized platforms like Facebook and WeChat will win. We need the Web to win in order for platforms to stay open, and innovation to flourish, and power dynamics to be more healthy. Here is me pontificating at length about it in a video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMm7-j7yIY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMm7-j7yIY
- ec109685 10y ago
  I don't think you should take it as a given that decentralization of login is good. I do not want my credentials stored on every personalized web site that I go to, so appreciate when I can sign in with one of my existing ids.
  - EGreg 10y ago
    It doesn't have to work that way. You choose which domain you'd like to be responsible for holding your identity and address book, and then choose to authenticate with some domains and host some of your data on them. Those domains each get a different user id from your identity server, which knows all your user ids on each of those other domains. Now you have a bunch of ids in different communities but no one except the server you trust has to know what they are. Thanks to 3rd party cookie policies, you can't easily be tracked across domains either. Only the people who you want to share your ids on other services with will know. Such as your friends. You might tell only a few people that you are CrackerJack on porn.com, but you might tell everyone that you are FooManChu22 on Instagram. It's all up to you. And it should be seamless and automatic – when you arrive at a new service, you should already have the ids of all your friends on that service who shared it with you by now. You send this list to the service in order to connect with those friends. And you can also get notifications when a friend joins a service. This is truly decentralized, private, secure, and social. Here's a diagram: https://qbix.com/diagrams/groups.png https://qbix.com/diagrams/groups.png And if you want to learn more, go here: https://qbix.com/platform https://qbix.com/platform or email me.
    - candiodari 10y ago
a_c 10y ago
and the idea is that users can call up useful features from third parties -- photo filters, language tools, ride-sharing services -- within the WeChat app As far as I can tell, the so called "Mini program" are just webpages? If so, how can it "call up useful features like photo filters"? One would need to 1. take a photo, 2. upload to website, 3. review the result and 4. Repeat 1-3 if result not satisfied? Am I missing something here?
- philtar 10y ago
  From 1 to 3 is seamless.
- nneonneo 10y ago
  Although they might be webpages, they may have access to extra APIs via WeChat integration (the webview can expose additional functionality, for example). I imagine, for example, that an app like Meitu (a popular facelift/beauty app in China) could recreate their filters in WeChat with the help of a photo-choosing extension API.
  - a_c 10y ago
    Thanks for your suggestion. I misunderstood the meaning of filter in the article. I was thinking about the realtime effect as in Mac's photo booth.
    - HappyTypist 10y ago
      WebRTC
      - mcintyre1994 10y ago
        Is there a demo of Photo Booth in WebRTC? That'd be pretty cool!
nneonneo 10y ago
WeChat's "App Revolution" is by no means a technical revolution, as several other commenters have pointed out. There's nothing new with embedding a web browser, nor with SSO, or integrated payments. The revolution is the fact that this is an app with an install base approaching one billion users (846M monthly active users as of Q3'16). Anything they do is potentially revolutionary by virtue of sheer scale. They are a platform as influential and powerful as Facebook is in the West. If they decide they want to compete with the platform's application store, they will provide strong competition. WeChat has already beaten out most other payment methods in China for day-to-day commerce - credit cards, cash, cheque, etc. It has beaten out most social networks there (after the introduction of the "Moments" feature), and all other instant messaging services including SMS. Taking over other application functions is simply a natural progression for the rather unstoppable juggernaut at this point - and third party app developers will be happy to oblige.
- debt 10y ago
  whatsapp still ain't got an api tho
  - simonh 10y ago
    How do you think these micro-programs work? They haven't got a publicly published API, but they don't need one.
  - nurettin 10y ago
    A Whatsapp server browses links you paste into chat, searches for any meta tags and opengraph information it can find and shows a picture/title in chat if it can. That's as close as it got to an API
- sho_hn 10y ago
  The situation is very similar in Korea with KakaoTalk. They have several apps within the messenger itself (e.g. even one that lets you book a hairdresser appointment) and currently still several outside (e.g. taxi hailing), but altogether they're in a similar position.
pentae 10y ago
Apple Inc. isn't taking this development lightly. It even prohibited WeChat from using the term "app" as applied to mini programs. Glad to see Apple once again using its tight grip on its developers to look out for Apple.
- akvadrako 10y ago
  And to deter lock in to WeChat's closed platform. Really, this is Goliath vs Goliath - you want them fighting a bit, not working together.
eva1984 10y ago
TL;DR, the mini program is basically WeChat's own chrome web store, web app with proprietary API to interact with WeChat. Didn't know why this is hyped so much, and there is nothing revolutionary about this. It makes the Chinese internet even more becoming WeChat's own walled garden.
- lhr0909 10y ago
  If you think about similar products on the market (fb messenger, WhatsApp, even Line or Kakao Talk in Japan/Korea), this is quite unheard of, because WeChat is taking up everyone's time on the phone. Other apps just simply cannot divide a user's attention out of WeChat the app, on a smartphone. And just because of that, most of the businesses and companies start to live off of wechat's user base and features. For example, there are subscription accounts where you get subscribed articles regularly so you don't need to build a news app anymore for content, and individual content producers can also publish just as easily, so the spiral gets deeper and deeper into the wechat system. And when payment started to come around on WeChat in 2014 (iirc), even Alipay is taking a hit, because now you literally can just keep WeChat open on your phone. I think that, if you build an IM product and suddenly become the only app people ever use, this is just amazing.
  - felixding 10y ago
    > because WeChat is taking up everyone's time on the phone Well, not me. I'm Chinese and I hate hate hate WeChat. It's a cluttered, privacy intrusive app and a very close eco system. WeChat became this popular is by no means because of the app per se, but because of it is made and heavily promoted by Tencent. Before WeChat we had much more elegant and simple apps like Talkbox and WhatsApp.
- Markoff 10y ago
  there is no such thing as internet in China, correct word here for North Korea 2.0 is intranet, it's like calling something with 20% milk fat content butter
  - 10y ago
james_niro 10y ago
WeChat is on to something...it is like in the lord of the rings one ring to rule them all. One app to rule them all. I wouldn't be surprised to see a phone from them in near future
travisckirk 10y ago
While the technological innovation here might not seem impressive, WeChat is extremely influential. I was just in China, and at least in the cities it seems like everyone uses WeChat for everything, all the time.
nv-vn 10y ago
Seems really similar to what Telegram has been trying to do for a while now. First with basic bots, then bots using custom keyboards and stickers, then with inline bots, and now with the game API (which basically allows you to package arbitrary HTML/JS/CSS into a bot message).
- shp0ngle 10y ago
  Telegram has much lower numbers though
- paulftw 10y ago
  You are saying that the guy who cloned Facebook for Russian market (vk.com) is now building WeChat for Russia?
  - offa 10y ago
    Not really related, but I greatly prefer VK's design and features over Facebook. Wish it was more popular outside of Eastern Europe.
  - Defman 10y ago
    It's not oriented on the Russian market at all. Many of us (I'm Russian too) complains about Telegram not having Russian language by default. (but I don't really care about it that much because I know English very well). More over, Pavel Durov said that he won't do any business in Russia because if you don't want to cooperate with their government, you may lost your business. He lost his vk.com because of that.
Inconel 10y ago
I may be out of the loop on the newest app developments so please correct me if I'm wrong, but why haven't we seen these kind of all encompassing chat apps take off in the US/West? Has no one tried it yet or are Western users somehow hostile to these kind of apps?
- HappyTypist 10y ago
  It's kind of the iMessages App Store.
- Markoff 10y ago
  Facebook messenger had built in apps it's mostly because WeChat has gov protected monopoly over China, while Western chat apps operate in fragmented environment so it's really difficult to convince user to switch to them for payment if half of your contacts can't receive your payment and same goes for other functionality and building this features require critical mass of users which is just not possible in open market (well it's not possible on Android since Google seem to be suicidal regarding chat, is perfectly possible with iMessage)
- vidyesh 10y ago
  >Has no one tried it yet or are Western users somehow hostile to these kind of apps? WeChat is majorly filled with bot accounts which do most of the stuff. And the webpages/requests are loaded to either fill the message box or load a webpage within the app to conclude the request. As most of it is kind of local (banks, home security, grocery, etc) the bots are mostly locally available and so they haven't really flourished or even made for outside China. A really better article to understand what WeChat provides was on the VC Andreessen Horowitz blog[1]. People seem to be very much hating how hostile it looks and feel but China's internet is a walled garden, WeChat falls perfectly inside the firewall to provide everything within the app. And that is the reason why such chat app won't work anywhere is because the world. We have access to internet and its apps completely, we have the power to choose whichever app we like unlike for China's user base which has been living with the habit to only look for apps and services which the government approves. The article really is trying to convey that how WeChat has become the onestop for everything in China, which gives them that much reason to launch a OS around WeChat and not care about the other App Stores. [1] https://a16z.com/2015/08/06/wechat-china-mobile-first/ https://a16z.com/2015/08/06/wechat-china-mobile-first/
miguelrochefort 10y ago
I will ask this again. Why is nobody here interested in building one app that does it all? Nobody wants to have 100 apps on their phones, or create 1000 online accounts. Such an app would easily make most tech companies obsolete. What part do people not understand?
- gcb0 10y ago
  not sure if trolling or not... but good luck having your bank app developed by the same standards as the Facebook app protected by the same password.
  - miguelrochefort 10y ago
    I'm serious. What's the problem?
- lucasverra 10y ago
  Well, at least 2-3 years ago FB took the opposite direction by splitting FB app from messenger app.
- Markoff 10y ago
  we have it, is just not app but it's called Android not sure what's the difference between having million apps and functions hidden within one app instead of having them separated between more apps which also helps with diversifying risks and it's easier to organize the thing is, people in West actually value their privacy sort off, while people in China are not even offered this option at table, so you end up with one gov approved app which they are monitoring and censoring
  - miguelrochefort 10y ago
    By not depending on privacy, they benefit from much better user experience. I think that's a great trade-off.
- Freak_NL 10y ago
  People here are probably on the cautious side of centralising all of their online identities and activities into one app. Our privacy is under enough threat as it is. Besides, I don't want to migrate everything I do online to a smartphone (it would have to be Android or IOS then, because that's all they support of course — vendor lock-in is not so great for innovation) or a sanctioned PC OS. In fact, most of the time I don't even want to run some service's software, except for those that run in the sandbox that is my web browser (i.e., websites and web applications). Actually, all things considered we already have that one app that does it all; the web browser.
cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
Those of you who think WeChat is innovative for doing these things while other messaging companies like Facebook can't: WeChat can make these moves because they know they have their back covered by the government. Even if Apple wants to do anything about it, they know they need to play nice with the Chinese government, and overall it makes more sense for them to let WeChat do whatever just so that they can sell iPhones in China. Facebook can't do something like this easily. If Facebook went a bit too far to do something like this, Apple will definitely stop them. With WeChat it's not that simple. My point is, there are many reasons why something works or doesn't work, and many people tend to just see a single facet of the entire situation and decide. Like how these American VCs idolize WeChat and other Asian tech phenomenon and try to emulate them. "Who's the WeChat of America?" is the stupidest question to ask when trying to build an innovative company.
jordache 10y ago
How is this even a novel concept? Oh it's Bloomberg...
dano 10y ago
Isn't it that WeChat is a trusted platform for apps whereas the preponderance of other places one can download apps are sketchy and usually deliver malware? Basically a monopoly central platform it would seem.
TeeWEE 10y ago
What they are describing here, is called a WEBBROWSER. Every phone has one.
k0dede 10y ago
this month, I have developed and published a so-called 'mini app' in wechat. It is more like instant app from android 2017 year with web technology, but tencent restricted a lot of functions so you cannot use the standard web technology and i believe it is for security reason and $$$. In my options, i dont think it is an app revolution but it is more like a trending for this industry, like facebook instant game or web app.
deftturtle 10y ago
tl;dr: If the design philosophies for Alexa, IFTTT, Siri, and Google all came together in one beautiful, open platform, I would be so happy. I hate apps so much, and voice assistants offer amazing convenience and better interaction. I don't need the extra fluff with a huge app. Once Apple opens Siri to a greater extent, we'll have even more flexibility & power. I could delete so many apps if Siri could handle the few, basic functions that I actually need. Currently, SiriKit is limited to particular domains, like messaging, payments, or reservations, so it's not capable of a whole lot [1]. The Alexa Skills Kit [2] is ahead of Siri at this point, only because it's more open to developers. One day, this is what Siri will do: Siri takes a photo of my checks, handles my banking logins, and submits the photos for deposit processing. I delete my banking app. Siri records my voice, sends it to Google Translate, and returns the appropriate translation. Then I delete Google Translate. With the IntentsUI Framework, apps could include a visual experience, too. There's plenty of room for growth and customization. Siri even lets you activate Google Now, Alexa, or a different voice assistant that is more intelligent. Sorry Siri, but you just aren't as good :( Siri would handle security and API stuff. It would store my logins and account information, and then it would appropriately handle my Intents. I could download particular functions and increase the capabilities of Siri, like how iMessages has its own App Store. One selling point with Firefox OS was the Adaptive App Search, where relevant apps would be available as you needed them. Searching for coffee? A Starbucks web app would appear, and you could use it on the fly, similar to the Progressive Web Apps with Android. In either case, the purpose was to limit installed software and prioritize what was actually needed at the time [3]. But Siri, or Alexa, or any voice assistant will push this further when all of the APIs Just Work™. I don't know how soon this day will come, but I could delete so many apps if Siri could process my data and communicate with 3rd parties. [1] SiriKit: https://developer.apple.com/sirikit/ https://developer.apple.com/sirikit/ [2] Alexa Skills Kit: https://developer.amazon.com/alexa-skills-kit https://developer.amazon.com/alexa-skills-kit [3] Firefox Adaptive App Search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zwf0VMVDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zwf0VMVDI
josepi_ 10y ago
This is the sort-of obvious eventuality of a world filled with dozens of different services. Of course a new service will come that tries to bridge them all together in a simple way that is efficient for the user. Imagine if all the USA's cable channels were different apps that took up space on your TV's hard drive (like phone applications). Now imagine your TV has a way of visiting "lesser" channels (web browser). Now imagine that, eventually, the channels you care about begin integrating into the web browser (the numerous applications that now offer browser-based components). Now imagine someone comes along and says you can use a single service to access all those channels (shouldn't be hard to imagine that because it's how things are now..). The innovation here, imo, is that WeChat is essentially a web browser that looks and feels very different from traditional web browsers. It's a big deal given the conditions of today; i.e. cloud-based and browser-based applications are becoming the norm. Interesting, for sure. I see a future in it, anyway.

131 points by 1gor 10y ago

yalogin 10y ago

What lo the status of user privacy and security in such apps? The user I am guessing should have no such expectations.

dingdongding 10y ago
Privacy and China don't play hand in hand.
- eragoins 10y ago
  Does true Privacy play hand in hand with any country? Since I don't live in China, should this bother me?
  - simonh 10y ago
    Imagine if a country manages to establish a surveillance state with a single cabal in complete political, legal and economic control. Suppose that this establishes a system using modern surveillance and censorship technologies that is so complete in it's control of public and private life that the system is in a permanent steady state. There may be several possible steady states, one might be a pervasive totalitarian surveillance state and another might be a liberal democracy with individual freedoms and a system of checks and ballances. But while both such systems exist in the world, it's possible that one or the other might establish dominance over the other. In fact one or the other winning out seems inevitable in the long term. So as long as an oppressive totalitarian surveillance state exists in the world, there is a risk that it will become the steady state for the whole world. China has such a system. WhatsApp is thoroughly subverted by the Chinese government and is an integral part of their surveillance and censorship apparatus. It might even become the key component that enables complete and permanent stability for the Chinese totalitarian system.
  - pmontra 10y ago
    Check http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/china-launch-social-credit-system-monitor-everything-jaywalking-internet-activity http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/china-launch-social... Then imagine yourself using one of the apps contributing data to that system, even if from outside the country. Oh well, maybe we're already using many of them and we didn't notice.
  - Markoff 10y ago
    nobody censor your private communication in western apps. WeChat does. nobody delete your anti government rant on Facebook. wechat does.
- ibic 10y ago
  s/China/US/, still sounds equally right (or wrong) to me.
  - frozenport 10y ago
    The US has maybe the potential for surveillance, although it is not clear if and how they act. China actively acts on gathered information to arrest dissidents for thought crimes and protesting its corrupt government. They may soon assign a "citizenship" score, which has little to do with participating in government. Lets not get the two confused.
DavideNL 10y ago
i was also wondering about that (privacy); "use our app to do everything"...

okreallywtf 10y ago

Disclaimer: I haven't used WeChat at all, but its mini-programs sound just like apps. Maybe it simplifies the process of installing and using them but what does that do to the security model? Does that mean WeChat is in total control of your information, providing it to 3rd parties that you may not have verified for yourself? Granted, there are plenty of problems with apps and security as it is, but at least you can have separate registrations for each and one sketchy app doesn't necessarily compromise your whole system. Maybe the article doesn't make the point well or I'm just missing it.

Sanddancer 10y ago

Their "revolution" is using federated logins and an integrated pay service. So a google account or the like and google pay. About the only interesting take home here is that developers would do well to keep their app sizes down and to design for their market. Everything else, you can get from android and from ios today.

pcr0 10y ago
The revolution alludes to the fact that one app is taking over everything from social networking, mobile payments, food, ticket sales, ride-hailing, financial products, bill payments, and much more.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

dstaley 10y ago

This is praising WeChat for having a built-in web browser that supports single sign-on and credit card autofill.

a_c 10y ago
I find it difficult to understand how these things are revolutionising. Perhaps it has something to do with the culture background of the users?
- adventured 10y ago
  There's nothing revolutionary about it at all. It appears the author needed something to hype for an article and or doesn't understand what they're writing about very well.
- pcr0 10y ago
  This video from NYT explains it what makes WeChat revolutionary as a platform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAesMQ6VtK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAesMQ6VtK8 tl;dw The revolution alludes to the fact that one app is taking over everything from social networking, mobile payments, food, ticket sales, ride-hailing, financial products, bill payments, and much more.
  - acchow 10y ago
    I watched the video. I still don't get it. Why would I want one app and company to own all of that? I don't even want one phone manufacturer/platform to own my messaging - I much prefer platform-agnostic Whatsapp over iPhone-only iMessage. Already the smartphone platform I use can do all of social networking, mobile payments, food, ticket sales, ride-hailing, bill payments, etc on ONE device. I just don't see what there is to be gained by pulling all this down into one app? Switching between apps via APIs is already automatic and rather fast, and will only get better over time. The NYT video makes a lot of mention of "you haven't left the app". Why do I care? As long as I haven't left my phone why do I care what app I'm in? Having APIs for apps on a device to talk to each other allows for competition and variety - won't it obviously win out?

EGreg 10y ago

If we don't succeed in decentralizing user identity then centralized platforms like Facebook and WeChat will win. We need the Web to win in order for platforms to stay open, and innovation to flourish, and power dynamics to be more healthy. Here is me pontificating at length about it in a video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMm7-j7yIY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMm7-j7yIY

ec109685 10y ago
I don't think you should take it as a given that decentralization of login is good. I do not want my credentials stored on every personalized web site that I go to, so appreciate when I can sign in with one of my existing ids.
- EGreg 10y ago
  It doesn't have to work that way. You choose which domain you'd like to be responsible for holding your identity and address book, and then choose to authenticate with some domains and host some of your data on them. Those domains each get a different user id from your identity server, which knows all your user ids on each of those other domains. Now you have a bunch of ids in different communities but no one except the server you trust has to know what they are. Thanks to 3rd party cookie policies, you can't easily be tracked across domains either. Only the people who you want to share your ids on other services with will know. Such as your friends. You might tell only a few people that you are CrackerJack on porn.com, but you might tell everyone that you are FooManChu22 on Instagram. It's all up to you. And it should be seamless and automatic – when you arrive at a new service, you should already have the ids of all your friends on that service who shared it with you by now. You send this list to the service in order to connect with those friends. And you can also get notifications when a friend joins a service. This is truly decentralized, private, secure, and social. Here's a diagram: https://qbix.com/diagrams/groups.png https://qbix.com/diagrams/groups.png And if you want to learn more, go here: https://qbix.com/platform https://qbix.com/platform or email me.
  - candiodari 10y ago

a_c 10y ago

and the idea is that users can call up useful features from third parties -- photo filters, language tools, ride-sharing services -- within the WeChat app As far as I can tell, the so called "Mini program" are just webpages? If so, how can it "call up useful features like photo filters"? One would need to 1. take a photo, 2. upload to website, 3. review the result and 4. Repeat 1-3 if result not satisfied? Am I missing something here?

philtar 10y ago
From 1 to 3 is seamless.
nneonneo 10y ago
Although they might be webpages, they may have access to extra APIs via WeChat integration (the webview can expose additional functionality, for example). I imagine, for example, that an app like Meitu (a popular facelift/beauty app in China) could recreate their filters in WeChat with the help of a photo-choosing extension API.
- a_c 10y ago
  Thanks for your suggestion. I misunderstood the meaning of filter in the article. I was thinking about the realtime effect as in Mac's photo booth.
  - HappyTypist 10y ago
    WebRTC
    - mcintyre1994 10y ago
      Is there a demo of Photo Booth in WebRTC? That'd be pretty cool!

nneonneo 10y ago

WeChat's "App Revolution" is by no means a technical revolution, as several other commenters have pointed out. There's nothing new with embedding a web browser, nor with SSO, or integrated payments. The revolution is the fact that this is an app with an install base approaching one billion users (846M monthly active users as of Q3'16). Anything they do is potentially revolutionary by virtue of sheer scale. They are a platform as influential and powerful as Facebook is in the West. If they decide they want to compete with the platform's application store, they will provide strong competition. WeChat has already beaten out most other payment methods in China for day-to-day commerce - credit cards, cash, cheque, etc. It has beaten out most social networks there (after the introduction of the "Moments" feature), and all other instant messaging services including SMS. Taking over other application functions is simply a natural progression for the rather unstoppable juggernaut at this point - and third party app developers will be happy to oblige.

debt 10y ago
whatsapp still ain't got an api tho
- simonh 10y ago
  How do you think these micro-programs work? They haven't got a publicly published API, but they don't need one.
- nurettin 10y ago
  A Whatsapp server browses links you paste into chat, searches for any meta tags and opengraph information it can find and shows a picture/title in chat if it can. That's as close as it got to an API
sho_hn 10y ago
The situation is very similar in Korea with KakaoTalk. They have several apps within the messenger itself (e.g. even one that lets you book a hairdresser appointment) and currently still several outside (e.g. taxi hailing), but altogether they're in a similar position.

pentae 10y ago

Apple Inc. isn't taking this development lightly. It even prohibited WeChat from using the term "app" as applied to mini programs. Glad to see Apple once again using its tight grip on its developers to look out for Apple.

akvadrako 10y ago
And to deter lock in to WeChat's closed platform. Really, this is Goliath vs Goliath - you want them fighting a bit, not working together.

eva1984 10y ago

TL;DR, the mini program is basically WeChat's own chrome web store, web app with proprietary API to interact with WeChat. Didn't know why this is hyped so much, and there is nothing revolutionary about this. It makes the Chinese internet even more becoming WeChat's own walled garden.

lhr0909 10y ago
If you think about similar products on the market (fb messenger, WhatsApp, even Line or Kakao Talk in Japan/Korea), this is quite unheard of, because WeChat is taking up everyone's time on the phone. Other apps just simply cannot divide a user's attention out of WeChat the app, on a smartphone. And just because of that, most of the businesses and companies start to live off of wechat's user base and features. For example, there are subscription accounts where you get subscribed articles regularly so you don't need to build a news app anymore for content, and individual content producers can also publish just as easily, so the spiral gets deeper and deeper into the wechat system. And when payment started to come around on WeChat in 2014 (iirc), even Alipay is taking a hit, because now you literally can just keep WeChat open on your phone. I think that, if you build an IM product and suddenly become the only app people ever use, this is just amazing.
- felixding 10y ago
  > because WeChat is taking up everyone's time on the phone Well, not me. I'm Chinese and I hate hate hate WeChat. It's a cluttered, privacy intrusive app and a very close eco system. WeChat became this popular is by no means because of the app per se, but because of it is made and heavily promoted by Tencent. Before WeChat we had much more elegant and simple apps like Talkbox and WhatsApp.
Markoff 10y ago
there is no such thing as internet in China, correct word here for North Korea 2.0 is intranet, it's like calling something with 20% milk fat content butter
- 10y ago

james_niro 10y ago

WeChat is on to something...it is like in the lord of the rings one ring to rule them all. One app to rule them all. I wouldn't be surprised to see a phone from them in near future

travisckirk 10y ago

While the technological innovation here might not seem impressive, WeChat is extremely influential. I was just in China, and at least in the cities it seems like everyone uses WeChat for everything, all the time.

nv-vn 10y ago

Seems really similar to what Telegram has been trying to do for a while now. First with basic bots, then bots using custom keyboards and stickers, then with inline bots, and now with the game API (which basically allows you to package arbitrary HTML/JS/CSS into a bot message).

shp0ngle 10y ago
Telegram has much lower numbers though
paulftw 10y ago
You are saying that the guy who cloned Facebook for Russian market (vk.com) is now building WeChat for Russia?
- offa 10y ago
  Not really related, but I greatly prefer VK's design and features over Facebook. Wish it was more popular outside of Eastern Europe.
- Defman 10y ago
  It's not oriented on the Russian market at all. Many of us (I'm Russian too) complains about Telegram not having Russian language by default. (but I don't really care about it that much because I know English very well). More over, Pavel Durov said that he won't do any business in Russia because if you don't want to cooperate with their government, you may lost your business. He lost his vk.com because of that.

Inconel 10y ago

I may be out of the loop on the newest app developments so please correct me if I'm wrong, but why haven't we seen these kind of all encompassing chat apps take off in the US/West? Has no one tried it yet or are Western users somehow hostile to these kind of apps?

HappyTypist 10y ago
It's kind of the iMessages App Store.
Markoff 10y ago
Facebook messenger had built in apps it's mostly because WeChat has gov protected monopoly over China, while Western chat apps operate in fragmented environment so it's really difficult to convince user to switch to them for payment if half of your contacts can't receive your payment and same goes for other functionality and building this features require critical mass of users which is just not possible in open market (well it's not possible on Android since Google seem to be suicidal regarding chat, is perfectly possible with iMessage)
vidyesh 10y ago
>Has no one tried it yet or are Western users somehow hostile to these kind of apps? WeChat is majorly filled with bot accounts which do most of the stuff. And the webpages/requests are loaded to either fill the message box or load a webpage within the app to conclude the request. As most of it is kind of local (banks, home security, grocery, etc) the bots are mostly locally available and so they haven't really flourished or even made for outside China. A really better article to understand what WeChat provides was on the VC Andreessen Horowitz blog[1]. People seem to be very much hating how hostile it looks and feel but China's internet is a walled garden, WeChat falls perfectly inside the firewall to provide everything within the app. And that is the reason why such chat app won't work anywhere is because the world. We have access to internet and its apps completely, we have the power to choose whichever app we like unlike for China's user base which has been living with the habit to only look for apps and services which the government approves. The article really is trying to convey that how WeChat has become the onestop for everything in China, which gives them that much reason to launch a OS around WeChat and not care about the other App Stores. [1] https://a16z.com/2015/08/06/wechat-china-mobile-first/ https://a16z.com/2015/08/06/wechat-china-mobile-first/

miguelrochefort 10y ago

I will ask this again. Why is nobody here interested in building one app that does it all? Nobody wants to have 100 apps on their phones, or create 1000 online accounts. Such an app would easily make most tech companies obsolete. What part do people not understand?

gcb0 10y ago
not sure if trolling or not... but good luck having your bank app developed by the same standards as the Facebook app protected by the same password.
- miguelrochefort 10y ago
  I'm serious. What's the problem?
lucasverra 10y ago
Well, at least 2-3 years ago FB took the opposite direction by splitting FB app from messenger app.
Markoff 10y ago
we have it, is just not app but it's called Android not sure what's the difference between having million apps and functions hidden within one app instead of having them separated between more apps which also helps with diversifying risks and it's easier to organize the thing is, people in West actually value their privacy sort off, while people in China are not even offered this option at table, so you end up with one gov approved app which they are monitoring and censoring
- miguelrochefort 10y ago
  By not depending on privacy, they benefit from much better user experience. I think that's a great trade-off.
Freak_NL 10y ago
People here are probably on the cautious side of centralising all of their online identities and activities into one app. Our privacy is under enough threat as it is. Besides, I don't want to migrate everything I do online to a smartphone (it would have to be Android or IOS then, because that's all they support of course — vendor lock-in is not so great for innovation) or a sanctioned PC OS. In fact, most of the time I don't even want to run some service's software, except for those that run in the sandbox that is my web browser (i.e., websites and web applications). Actually, all things considered we already have that one app that does it all; the web browser.

cocktailpeanuts 10y ago

Those of you who think WeChat is innovative for doing these things while other messaging companies like Facebook can't: WeChat can make these moves because they know they have their back covered by the government. Even if Apple wants to do anything about it, they know they need to play nice with the Chinese government, and overall it makes more sense for them to let WeChat do whatever just so that they can sell iPhones in China. Facebook can't do something like this easily. If Facebook went a bit too far to do something like this, Apple will definitely stop them. With WeChat it's not that simple. My point is, there are many reasons why something works or doesn't work, and many people tend to just see a single facet of the entire situation and decide. Like how these American VCs idolize WeChat and other Asian tech phenomenon and try to emulate them. "Who's the WeChat of America?" is the stupidest question to ask when trying to build an innovative company.

jordache 10y ago

How is this even a novel concept? Oh it's Bloomberg...

dano 10y ago

Isn't it that WeChat is a trusted platform for apps whereas the preponderance of other places one can download apps are sketchy and usually deliver malware? Basically a monopoly central platform it would seem.

TeeWEE 10y ago

What they are describing here, is called a WEBBROWSER. Every phone has one.

k0dede 10y ago

this month, I have developed and published a so-called 'mini app' in wechat. It is more like instant app from android 2017 year with web technology, but tencent restricted a lot of functions so you cannot use the standard web technology and i believe it is for security reason and $$$. In my options, i dont think it is an app revolution but it is more like a trending for this industry, like facebook instant game or web app.

deftturtle 10y ago

tl;dr: If the design philosophies for Alexa, IFTTT, Siri, and Google all came together in one beautiful, open platform, I would be so happy. I hate apps so much, and voice assistants offer amazing convenience and better interaction. I don't need the extra fluff with a huge app. Once Apple opens Siri to a greater extent, we'll have even more flexibility & power. I could delete so many apps if Siri could handle the few, basic functions that I actually need. Currently, SiriKit is limited to particular domains, like messaging, payments, or reservations, so it's not capable of a whole lot [1]. The Alexa Skills Kit [2] is ahead of Siri at this point, only because it's more open to developers. One day, this is what Siri will do: Siri takes a photo of my checks, handles my banking logins, and submits the photos for deposit processing. I delete my banking app. Siri records my voice, sends it to Google Translate, and returns the appropriate translation. Then I delete Google Translate. With the IntentsUI Framework, apps could include a visual experience, too. There's plenty of room for growth and customization. Siri even lets you activate Google Now, Alexa, or a different voice assistant that is more intelligent. Sorry Siri, but you just aren't as good :( Siri would handle security and API stuff. It would store my logins and account information, and then it would appropriately handle my Intents. I could download particular functions and increase the capabilities of Siri, like how iMessages has its own App Store. One selling point with Firefox OS was the Adaptive App Search, where relevant apps would be available as you needed them. Searching for coffee? A Starbucks web app would appear, and you could use it on the fly, similar to the Progressive Web Apps with Android. In either case, the purpose was to limit installed software and prioritize what was actually needed at the time [3]. But Siri, or Alexa, or any voice assistant will push this further when all of the APIs Just Work™. I don't know how soon this day will come, but I could delete so many apps if Siri could process my data and communicate with 3rd parties. [1] SiriKit: https://developer.apple.com/sirikit/ https://developer.apple.com/sirikit/ [2] Alexa Skills Kit: https://developer.amazon.com/alexa-skills-kit https://developer.amazon.com/alexa-skills-kit [3] Firefox Adaptive App Search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zwf0VMVDI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zwf0VMVDI

josepi_ 10y ago

This is the sort-of obvious eventuality of a world filled with dozens of different services. Of course a new service will come that tries to bridge them all together in a simple way that is efficient for the user. Imagine if all the USA's cable channels were different apps that took up space on your TV's hard drive (like phone applications). Now imagine your TV has a way of visiting "lesser" channels (web browser). Now imagine that, eventually, the channels you care about begin integrating into the web browser (the numerous applications that now offer browser-based components). Now imagine someone comes along and says you can use a single service to access all those channels (shouldn't be hard to imagine that because it's how things are now..). The innovation here, imo, is that WeChat is essentially a web browser that looks and feels very different from traditional web browsers. It's a big deal given the conditions of today; i.e. cloud-based and browser-based applications are becoming the norm. Interesting, for sure. I see a future in it, anyway.