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Depression as hard on the heart as obesity and cholesterol
- RUG3Y 10y agoAs a chronically depressed person, I guess I'm in trouble.
- hive_mind 10y agoExercise, sleep, meditation, diet, hobbies.
- TheOneTrueKyle 10y agoIf only it was that easy
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dTal 10y agoNo one said it was easy. But, sometimes - if you're not too depressed - if you manage enough of these enough of the time (possibly with the help of a good friend nagging you) you can get enough of a feedback loop going to self-sustain and maintain a healthy living pattern long enough to sink in.
- TheOneTrueKyle 10y agoSometimes sure. I agree, these healthy habits are prerequisites when you find yourself more depressed than usual. But sometimes these healthy habits aren't going to be enough.
- chrisper 10y agoNot all depression is severe depression. Same with anxiety. In many cases people can manage it by themselves (e.g. without medication or extensive counseling).
- surrey-fringe 10y agoAnd unsolicited advice.
- hackuser 10y agoYou may mean to be helpful, but think about what that can sound like like to the other person (I can't speak for the GP): * You are so dumb that the problem ruining your life is one I can solve in five words. * It's as easy as five words; obviously you are not trying. It can sound worse to someone suffering from a (unfairly, ignorantly) stigmatized illness such as depression. Also, consider that probably the other person likely has been dealing with this problem for awhile. The simplistic solution that comes to mind in 30 seconds probably is one they also considered in the first 30 seconds, and probably they are well beyond it at this point.
- bottled_poe 10y agoAnd how does that help with balancing real world problems like financial security, social expectation and self-actualisation? Your suggestions seem like distractions from reality, so perhaps you would also include hard drugs in your list?
- chckn 10y agoI would like to add "don't drink any alcohol" to the list. I know that even a teatotaler can have a major depression but for me the decision to stop drinking any alcohol was THE key to make my depression much better. It took me years to realize but drinking alcohol makes me sad and anxious for a a couple of days. The more I drink the worse the mood on the next day.
- wslh 10y agoNootropics that also reduce anxiety?
- atomical 10y agoNootropics are a scam. Most of the drugs come from China and don't have the proper QA shipment over shipment.
- CryoLogic 10y agoI don't know about nootropics, but often anxiety can be a factor of: - low testosterone - high estrogen - high cortisol - low DHEA At least as far as the physical effects go (paranoia, sweating, etc.) Might be worth getting testosterone and sensitive e2 scanned. In particular if one is also obese (testosterone aromatises to estrogen in fat cells)
- mistermann 10y agoI am experimenting with THC, CBD, and Lecithin, so far. I started taking Lecithin about a week ago. On Saturday I took 40mg CBD. On Sunday (taking Lecithin as usual, but no CBD) I felt absolutely fantastic. In general, I have felt better for the last week. I'm also going to the gym about 4 times per week. Completely not conclusive yet but I am continuing to investigate. EDIT: Forgot Magnesium, for me this seems useful for anxiety.
- emmelaich 10y agoWhat is CBD?
- throwanem 10y agohttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
- TheOneTrueKyle 10y agoIn what form are you taking CBD. Oils? I am attempting to remove THC completely and focus more on CBD so I am curious.
- yulaow 10y agoFor me cognitive behavioral therapy with a very good psychotherapist was fundamental. I will just say what my therapist told me at the end of the first meeting "If you want it to work it will work, but if your problems were created in years of mental distress they won't go away any faster, it will be a long way. Be prepared." Almost 3yr later I still have some very random depressive toughs in my head and sometime two or three very bad hours, but now I can recognize them for what they are and that part of my mind lost any real control on my daily life. I can focus freely on my work, I can finally sleep like a normal person and my biorhythm is finally decent after years of total randomness caused by almost self-imposed insomnia. Consider investing in it, it was probably the best decision of my whole life.
- xarthna1 10y agoThanks for saying this. It sounds very similar to my situation. I have recently picked up the book "Feeling Good" by David Burns, MD and it has been helping. After years of therapy, I felt like I should be "fixed". Though things are better, that is not the case. It is constant and serious work with a focus on getting better. I do realize a big part of my problem is lifestyle. As you were saying, my self imposed insomnia, plus the stress and pressure I put on myself day to day. Glad to hear that you are doing better, and your post has encouraged me to seek out a therapist once more.
- mistermann 10y ago> For me cognitive behavioral therapy with a very good psychotherapist was fundamental. How does one go about finding a good therapist? At $100+ per hour, I could see it costing potentially thousands to find someone that's just good, let alone very good. In the past the wife and I tried going to a few different marriage counselors, it was not very encouraging.
- rgoddard 10y agoOne possible place to check is your local university. I know the one by me has a good clinical psych program and they run a clinic that is open to the public. They charge on a sliding scale based on your income so it may be more affordable.
- agumonkey 10y agoLong walks (especially with a bit of height) releases endorphins I believe. Also forces a steady heart rhythm probably cancelling the disrupting effects of depression. If I could walk I would go back to it immediately. That said depression also fucks up your will to do anything so you need to lose your "self" and bootstrap moving like a robot. Not very efficient method, but the only I know.
- phire 10y agoI'm chronically depressed, suffer from anxiety and stress, have high cholesterol (due to genetics) and I'm obese. Not to mention I have a family history of heart disease, on both sides. I think that's more or less every single risk factor for heart disease. My current goal is to beat the odds and somehow die of something I'm not statically predisposed to, like cancer.
- crypto5 10y agoYou still have sense of humor, which means life can bring good surprises. Please take care!
- Fnoord 10y agoHow you perceive a (depressed) person doesn't accurately describe how they perceive themselves. Humor can be part of the façade, the mask.
- phire 10y agoTrue. A depressed person can easily put on a mask for several hours and appear completely normal to everyone they interact with. Some depressed people even manage to hold a façade up for months or years of working full time, though I imagine the stress in doing so is ove But it doesn't really matter how other people perceive you. If you aren't happy with your self-perception, then you are going to have issues.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- manmal 10y agoI don't mean to be that well-intentioned person to give unsolicited advice. But have you tried meditation (e.g. guided with a CD)? It reduces anxiety a lot, and depression is often linked to, or at least coexists, with anxiety. My life gets so much better once I meditate regularly.
- mtw 10y ago
- flukus 10y agoConsidering how often depression leads to obesity I wonder how many are getting a double wammy?
- ekun 10y agoThis should be controlled for.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- flukus 10y agoI assumed it was in the study, but in real life there would be many suffering the negatives of both.
- Alex3917 10y agohttps://www.google.com/#q=obesity+depression+comorbidity https://www.google.com/#q=obesity+depression+comorbidity
- creativityland 10y agoI wouldn't be surprised either. There are many ways to deal with stress and depression, but all to often food and alcohol will come up.
- chckn 10y agoFor me it was alcohol. At least there is a very strong link between alcohol and my mood. Just a few drinks and I feel sad and anxious for a couple of days. My mood recovers by staying abstinent for one or two weeks after drinking alcohol. My solution is to avoid alcohol as much as I can.
- TheOneTrueKyle 10y agoI should try this for marijuana (abstaining that is)
- umberway 10y agoMy heart often tells me when something is amiss. For example, if I'm about to buy excessive amounts of junk food and alcohol I sometimes feel a twinge emanating from the chest region. I acknowledge and interpret this as my brain's anticipation of the price that will be paid. But what if things have gone more badly wrong? If the heart seems to say one thing whilst ideas (the ones I can name) say something else? One way to resolve the conflict is simply to censor the bodily signals. (Fear can do this sort of thing.) Yet there are physiological consequences, because the brain has two roles: (1) to run the mind, (2) to regulate the body. And withdrawing attention from bodily signals has consequences for health, I guess due to a concomitant weakening of the controlling function.
- ws_berkeley510 10y agoWhat is depression?
- reddytowns 10y agoMorose music, waking up late, black clothes, lots of cigarettes and coffee, etc.
- Thriptic 10y agoDepression also has been linked to worse medication adherence following cardiac incidents which could have an impact on mortality. Check out the SADHART trial.
- wfunction 10y agoI read that as "Depression is as hard on the heart as it is on obesity and cholesterol" and was confused for a moment...
- Zazezizozuzy 10y agoI would be interested in knowing what 'hard on the heart' means. They mention it can lead to cardiovascular disease, but I understand that to be kind of a vague term. I am a fairly healthy young guy and I have extremely high blood pressure. Every doctor I've seen has been unable to identify a cause through testing, dietary changes, fluctuation of exercise, etc. When I was younger, I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and have had major bouts of depression my whole life. More so since getting a job as a developer. Any data connecting the depression and HBP would be really helpful.
- beaner 10y agoI don't have a medical explanation for you, but I can tell you what it feels like. I've experienced many pangs of deep loneliness at times when I feel like I'm by myself and should be out being social. It feels like a tug on your chest. Like there's a void and some gravity is sucking things down into it. Or, I know it sounds corny, but something heavy sitting on your heart while you simultaneously experience anxiety. When I am deeply lonely like this, in the moment, not just as a general idea, I definitely do feel it as a physical thing. I don't know if it's the same as what they're talking about here, but it seems reasonable that loneliness could be a type of depression, and I strongly believe that regularly experiencing the type of physical feeling described above could do damage to you.
- nwatson 10y agoThanks for describing this and I really hope this improves for you over time. I had years of feeling like this too . I can't say I've really found my place but at 50, memories of that depression are from another life. I can't really rightly remember what it felt like, but it was terrible.
- TheOneTrueKyle 10y agoI have had this feeling in my chest for over a decade now.
- Jarwain 10y ago
- Applejinx 10y agoWell, shit. Bye, hackers ;P
- ekianjo 10y agoI thought cholesterol was said not to be a cause of heart disease after all?
- eplanit 10y agoSome study from last year (I don't have the citation) stated that _ingesting_ cholesterol (i.e. eggs) does not lead to plaque buildup. It's eating saturated fats that cause the body to produce cholesterol that then builds up in the arteries. tl;dr worry about the bacon, not the eggs.
- vixen99 10y agoOn the other hand: 'Cambridge University academics have looked over previous studies on saturated fat and discovered there is no link to heart disease ' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/sarah-knapton/10703970/No-link-found-between-saturated-fat-and-heart-disease.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/sarah-knapton/1070397... In view of the fate of several consensus views in the past (especially on the subject of nutrition) where they have been shown to be wrong, the tough conclusion is that one has to decide for oneself by exploring the peer-reviewed literature.
- misja111 10y agoCholesterol is less of a risk factor than previously thought but still plays a role. But the main factor in preventing hearth disease is lifestyle; avoid chronic stress, exercise, get enough sleep.
- eplanit 10y agoThat's exactly what my cardiologist explained to me after my heart attack (myocardial infarction) -- that cholesterol and obesity account (in his anecdotal way of speaking) for only half of cases. I was in great shape at the time (hiked > 4 miles in hills every day), but very stressed and depressed.
- astrodev 10y agoActually, the paper this article is based on suggests the opposite: "Only a minority of 5.6% [of those who later experienced a lethal CVD event] were free of any risk factor. This challenges claims that CVD events commonly occur in persons who have not been exposed to a major risk factor." (where the risk factors include high cholesterol, obesity, hypertension, smoking and diabetes)
- astrodev 10y agoFrom the paper (DEEX - "Depressed mood and exhaustion"): "Nonetheless, adding DEEX to a risk score based on classical risk factors resulted in only nonsignificant improvement of mortality risk prediction." Regarding the causal relationship: "Although not a proof of causality, in general, depressed subjects are more likely to cluster self-harming lifestyle behaviors and may be less likely to adhere to prescribed medication." To put things in context it is also worth noting that, except in old age, a big increase in the risk of death at any given point of time translates into a very small reduction in life expectancy. See for example http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2012/11/10/mortality-and-life-expectancy/ http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2012/11/10/mortality-a...
- benevol 10y agoEspecially if your government doesn't give you access to a therapist b/c your health care system is a bad joke or if you don't want to suffer side-effects due to anti-depressants, then do : 1. Mindful meditation [free] -> Daily practice (30+ minutes) John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio meditation exercises) [1]. There are a couple of scientific studies which prove effectiveness [2] [3]. 2. LSD [$5-10/dose + $25/multi-use test kit] -> One-time experience (every 6 months max.) LSD however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it (minimum literature: "The psychedelic explorer's guide" by Fadiman). Also, order a test kit and test before you ingest. Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it and educating yourself about everything will allow you to decide if it's a good idea in your case or not. In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension, which increases quality of life even further (it is less immediate with meditation). You may combine micro-dosing LSD with meditation for accessing the meditative state easier (it's quite a challenge for depressed people). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn [1] https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through_Depression_-_Guided_Meditation_Practices https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through... [2] http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-brain http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to... [3] http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuroscience http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuros...
- will_pseudonym 10y agoRe:LSD, you are making medical claims and recommendations with zero stated medical background. Someone following your advice could become permanently psychologically disabled. Do not follow this person's advice on this subject. Talk to your actual doctor or licensed psychologist.
- saiya-jin 10y agothe thing is, doctor will never ever recommend you this, even if it would instantly and permanently fix you. there is simply no proper long term research into this thanx to US gov war on drugs and doctors play it safe so nobody would sue them. from personal experience - if all else is failing, do it with smaller doses first. it is a truly life-changing experience, even one time.
- tu7001 10y agoHow high cholesterol level is hard for my heart?
- keymone 10y agoa case of conflation of lipids with all the subclasses of lipoproteins into single term "cholesterol"
- blbear 10y agoInteresting observation, although there's also a lot of studies published that have shown a strong correlation between depression and obesity, which in turn is strongly linked to heart disease. I wonder if the researchers have controlled for this confounding factor somehow? (haven't had time to read the actual research paper yet)
- tominous 10y agoRecent research suggests that chronic inflammation may cause depression [1]. Therefore the root cause may be inflammation, leading to both depression and heart disease. (Of course biology is never that simple and there are probably loops and feedbacks.) [1] Summary: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/05/chronic-psychitis/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/05/chronic-psychitis/
- amelius 10y agoAlso, high homocysteine may lead to depression, [1], and is linked to cardiovascular disease, [2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17541043 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17541043 [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4326479/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4326479/
- LennyHenrysNuts 10y agoI'm fucked then. I eat shit and I'm depressed!
- mtw 10y agoWhat most people forget is that mental diseases are associated with physical diseases. Depression is positively associated with Type 2 diabetes, oral cancer, psoriasis, arthritis [1]. Stress is positively associated with poor sleep. Anxiety is positively associated with coronary heart disease. When you are in poor mental health (stress, anxiety, depression), it will impact your heart, digestive system and immune system, and vice-versa. Source [1]: http://outcomereference.com/outcomes/5-Depression http://outcomereference.com/outcomes/5-Depression