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Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

812 points by doctorshady 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
honkhonkpants 10y ago
Yeah REALLY obnoxious. I was just disabling this after another Uber ride. They do not provide the option to enable location services only when the app is running on screen. I think it might be nice if iOS presented this option regardless of what Uber wants.
- micaksica 10y ago
  > I think it might be nice if iOS presented this option regardless of what Uber wants. I delete any application that requires all-or-nothing location privileges; if Uber acts this way now I'm done using Uber. Being able to make it such that location services are an all-or-nothing proposition when there is clearly support for "only when using" in iOS annoys me to no end. The fact Apple doesn't do this is what is actually alarming, given their stance on "privacy".
  - otoburb 10y ago
    >>I delete any application that requires all-or-nothing location privileges; if Uber acts this way now I'm done using Uber. This is the calculated risk Uber is taking. Presumably they believe that they will only lose a tiny sliver of their user base over the all-or-nothing approach. Now that they're well past the "early adoption" phase in many markets this is a "smart" corporate play.
    - micaksica 10y ago
      I am aware of the strategy behind Uber's move. My comment above is "count me out". I doubt they'll lose even 1% of their installed userbase over this change.
  - givinguflac 10y ago
    On one hand I agree with you, but it wouldn't work as a unilateral policy. There are definitely apps (such as a weather widget, for one example) that lose major functionality if you don't allow location even when not technically in the app. Either way, I won't be using Uber anymore for this reason.
- Perceptes 10y ago
  I switched to Lyft because of this.
- tass 10y ago
  I denied permission to location as soon as this change happened with the intention of enabling and disabling before each ride. It's now more convenient to use competitors apps, though, and i haven't actually used uber since the change.
- tass 10y ago
  I denied permission to location as soon as this change happened with the intention of enabling and disabling before each ride. It's now more convenient to use competitors apps, though, and i haven't actually used uber since the change.
baumant 10y ago
"Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after the trip ends, including when the app is in the background." From source listed in the article: https://help.uber.com/h/ba9dd342-158d-421f-a9ea-0e6c7aaad726 https://help.uber.com/h/ba9dd342-158d-421f-a9ea-0e6c7aaad726
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  Counting down to the FBI NSL'ing [1] Uber for persistent, warrantless surveillance... [1] https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters
  - mahyarm 10y ago
    They don't need to, since they have the much better source of cell phone carriers with 24/7 location. And google android OS and apple to a certain extent.
    - mentat 10y ago
      Yes, people are like "oh NSL". Are they not paying attention to carrier access, stingray, general SIGINT? Like really this is HN at its most ridiculous.
  - mc32 10y ago
    Or in countries which have family registries it can be used to track people who fail to update the registry or move to a city illegally in places where intra-national movement is restricted.
- RKearney 10y ago
  "The website “https://help.uber.com” https://help.uber.com” would like to use your current location."
  - bobbles 10y ago
    I think its pretty relevant if someone is looking for uber help that they could use the location to help narrow down who should be dealing with the issue...
dav43 10y ago
This is the perfect example of development for the sake of development. The new user experience is terrible and provides the user with zero extra benefits. I seriously can't see how a product manager signs off on these updates.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  This isn't "development for the sake of development", no data collection is for that. This is to figure out where people are going. Addresses give you an idea, but they're not always precise. You may just give an intersection. Now, they're trying to figure out your actual destination. They're going to use this for monetization somehow. It's always about monetization. '
  - HappyTypist 10y ago
    It's about self driving cars. So they know where to drive you to; to actually get somewhere.
    - jonathankoren 10y ago
      That doesn't make any sense. Think about it. How does a cab driver get you to your location? Well you explicitly tell him by giving an address, or the name of a POI, or drop a pin on a map. You're then taken to the location you specified. Now, as you approach the location, you make a choice to either finish the ride, or abort it early by telling the driver, "Hey, this close enough. Just let me out wherever." At this point, the cab driver doesn't care, as long as he gets paid and you're happy it's a successful transaction. So what does following you do? Well it finds your actual final destination. Which restaurant. Which house. Which apartment. Which store. So that brings up two questions. First, how does this true final destination information give a better rider experience? Well it's not exactly clear, since the rider gave explicit destination information at the start of the transaction, or explicitly ended the ride when they became satisfied. So, what's in it for the driver? Well that's not clear at all either, since rider was already satisfied and the driver got paid. So what doesn't it do for Uber? Well, now they have popularity of specific POIs. Which bar. Which restaurant. Which store. That's valuable information. You could use that to deduce rider profiles that include things such as taste preferences, and income level. Then you can use that information for differential pricing (e.g. "This dude has a bunch of disposable income, charge him an extra two bucks.") I'm sure there's other things you can do with it, but my point is that it's not useful for navigation, at all, but does give economic information which could be squeezed, and attempts to squeeze all the money they can from essentially a car service on demand app, is Uber's MO.
melvinmt 10y ago
> Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after ends trip ends, including when the app is in the background. We do this to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service, and to enhance safety. Meh, sounds reasonable as long as they don't collect data outside this window (although they should not make it all-or-nothing, a third option of "While in use" would be better).
- djeikyb 10y ago
  "While in use" is exactly what they used to do. It allowed the driver to see my location as long as I left the app open. Now the uber app is unreasonable. It demands permission to stalk me at any time, else I use a hobbled version of the app.
- redditmigrant 10y ago
  The problem is that there is no user-facing setting that can say, 5 minutes only. So going from 5 to 10 to always becomes a decision that can be taken without informing the user at all.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  This is how the Overton Window shifts. Trouble is, now I have to walk 5 minutes in the opposite direction before turning around and meeting my dealer / going to the brothel / whatever you don't want posted on paste bin. Another issue arises when a "bug" records your location for 5 hours instead of 5 minutes.
  - cmontella 10y ago
    Yup, which is a strong possibility for Uber. I had an Uber charge me for a ride that continued for 12 hours after I had been dropped off. Uber had no problem billing me >$300 for this. If they don't have safeguards in place for questionable fare collection, they surely don't have safeguards in place for questionable data collection.
    - greggman 10y ago
fencepost 10y ago
I can't say I'm heartbroken that Uber disabled my account after my card on file was replaced (thanks Home Depot!) and I didn't update it. This wasn't even tied to requesting a ride, I think I'd opened the app to see what coverage in a suburban area looked like. IIRC the "get my account back" process was going to involve sending a copy of my drivers license and the dead card which had been cut up several months earlier, and it just wasn't worth the hassle of even following up. And this was even before all the "all your ride of shame are belong to us" brouhaha - so now they want to track your walks of shame as well?
necessity 10y ago
PrivacyGuard and Orwall prevent applications from using the internet/GPS without your express authorization. Anyway if you want absolute privacy toss your smartphone in the trash can, cancel your contract with your ISP, commit social suicide and go live off the grid.
- uabstraction 10y ago
  Imagine if the Founding Fathers decided to forgo western civilization and go live in the woods as nomadic hunter gatherers instead of standing up to British oppression... Or if all the blacks just listened to Marcus Garvey and went back to Africa instead of participating in the American Civil Rights Movement. This is basically what you're suggesting. We have the technological means to ensure reasonable levels of privacy. There's no excuse for lemon technology that exposes every intimate detail of our lives.
  - necessity 10y ago
    ... except Uber, Google, carriers, etc, are not oppressive.
    - cowpig 10y ago
      The fact that nobody's used a nuclear weapon offensively since WWII doesn't mean nuclear proliferation is fine. Similarly, the proliferation of extremely powerful information is obviously dangerous, regardless of whether it is causing active harm currently.
- coolstorydude89 10y ago
  I am already slowly inching toward this, I removed Internet access from my home, and don't use any smartphone applications at all. I have not seen any adverse effect on my life/productivity from doing this, people overestimate the amount that they actually need these services. In reality they mostly amount to useless appendages. Especially in an era with free wifi nearly everywhere, being on grid/off grid is as simple as whipping a laptop out of my bag and turning it on. Persistent connectivity is not a need.
uuilly 10y ago
Yeah, after being a "dozen rides a week" Uber user for the last year, I switched to Lyft. There is just no reason for this.
- hvmonk 10y ago
  How do you know Lyft doesn't do that? Any blogpost, article would be helpful. Thanks.
  - untog 10y ago
    You don't know until someone investigates, obviously. But if you have to choose between an app that definitely does that and an app that might do it, it makes sense to use the one that might in the meantime. There's an opportunity for Lyft to be "Uber, but for not scummy business practises" here, but I suppose most users don't really care. Austin would have been a good test of that, but Lyft withdrew along with Uber.
    - subdane 10y ago
      There's also the "god view" scandal which Uber definitely did get sued for (there haven't been similar lawsuits against Lyft) https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-settles-godview https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-settles-godview
    - joatmon-snoo 10y ago
      Lyft, sadly, doesn't seem to have the talent it needs to pull this off. Although they're still worth something, it just doesn't seem like Lyft will be able to eke it out unless something really game-changing happens to Uber. I've been a longtime Lyft user because of the stories that surfaced a few years ago about Uber considering blackmailing reporters and politicians with their ride data, but the last time I had to use the app, Lyft for some reason just wasn't working - their auth service seemed to be broken. I ended up downloading Uber and signing up because I had to get somewhere in a hurry and didn't have the time to look up another rideshare service. Their text notifications about driver arrivals are also always off, on the order of up to a minute or two (I don't know if Uber is better, but I would assume it is.) FWIW, I'd also sunk something like $300 into Lyft rides just two weeks before that for business travel, and I didn't experience a problem once.
erkose 10y ago
Why do we accept this intrusion into our lives?
- synicalx 10y ago
  I accept it because I don't really care if Uber knows where I am for a couple of minutes after they drop me off. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you don't like it there's nothing stopping you from uninstalling the app.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
    The issue then becomes Uber is doing it so all the other ride hailing apps start doing it. This is how the Overton Window shifts, and how our right to privacy is rapidly eroded.
    - AlexandrB 10y ago
      If you described 2016 to me in 2004, I'd call you a paranoid lunatic, yet here we are. I'm starting to realize that many of the "alarmist" voices [1] of that time were, in fact, optimistic. Thinking about what's considered "alarmist" today makes me fear for the future. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect.html http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect....
  - bigiain 10y ago
    Any you trust them (as a company) that they'll "only track you for 5 minutes after using the app", and you trust each of their staff members will have controlled/secured/audited access to only the 5 minutes location data after a trip, and you trust them to never deploy a production bug in their tracking code, and you trust every law enforcement or business partner request for that data including gag-order-backed-NSLs. And that's OK - if you're good with that. Now go and ask some women you know whether they have all that trust? Or minorities. Or activists. If you were a Muslim or Mexican in the US right now - do you suppose you'd be happy leaving an Uber app with "Always" location tracking permission on your phone past Jan 20th? If you had a close friend legally and peacefully protesting the pipeline in North Dakota right now and you knew they used Uber - would you be checking that they know this? I reject the position that because _you_ don't really care, that it's OK to "accept" this. Even though _you_ don't care, tell Uber you do not accept this because of what it means for your sister or friends or coworkers or neighbours or your allegedly "freedom loving" society...
forrestthewoods 10y ago
I ranted about this last weekend. No app, positively no app, gets "always" access to my location info. I don't care what their "privacy policy" says. I'm annoyed Apple even allows this. It shouldn't even be an option. Clearly iOS needs more fine tuned permissions. I can share my location with a friend for an hour. I'd Uber wants 5 minutes worth then they should be granted 5 minutes worth. Not infinite and unlimited. Uber used to work just fine with "while running" permission. They're removal of that is extremely user hostile. I deleted the app and will use Lyft instead. I suggest everyone do the same. Waze also made a similar change. Waze also got deleted. We must not accept this behavior.
- redditmigrant 10y ago
  One thing iOS shouldn't allow is for apps to pick this all or nothing user setting. Apps should be forced to deal with user changing the location setting from always to only while using. If its an option in the OS , app developers, especially big ones like Uber will build for that experience.
  - therec 10y ago
    Agreed! You should be able to give access to GPS only when running the app, I really do not like the All or Nothing policy. After all, there is no reasonable reason to justify the use of any phone resources when not using the app. In my phone Waze keeps using the GPS even if I kill the app and even after a fresh restart! I obviously deleted Waze now, but not without regret. :-(
- free2rhyme214 10y ago
  Agreed. I deleted Waze yesterday and set Uber to "Never" until they fix this.
jonathankoren 10y ago
Uber is really a scummy company. And given their track record with absuing user data, I don't trust them at all with this new expansive data collection effort. Let's review the company shall we? The CEO, Travis Kalanick, has used God View to monitor people for entertainment.[0] The head of their NYC office also go into hot water over using God View inappropriately[1]. At other companies, these would be fireable offenses. No second chances. Deactivate the counts. Escort them to the door. Mail them their stuff. At Uber, it's totally cool brah. There's the whole "you're not our employee, but we pay you, and tell you where to go, and how to act." They explicitly target low income people to be their totally-not-employees, through direct mail, and their "urban" "Get your side hustle on!" commercials. Their auto financing product is predatory.[2] It explicitly targets people bad credit to lease a car they can't pay for unless they're constantly totally-not-employed-with Uber. The interest rates are usury levels of 22.75% APR. Then of course there's the whole, "Fuck the law!" aspect of the company. [0] http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/10/03/god-view-uber-allegedly-stalked-users-for-party-goers-viewing-pleasure/#5091567d3f84 http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/10/03/god-view-... [1] https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-is-investigating-its-top-new-york-executive-for-privacy?utm_term=.twjvZpzBx#.nnPWOkaRz https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-is-investigating... [2] http://www.marketplace.org/2015/05/13/tech/uber-drivers-struggle-pay-subprime-auto-loans http://www.marketplace.org/2015/05/13/tech/uber-drivers-stru...
- WhitneyLand 10y ago
  I take issue with your summary. You forgot arrogant and douchy antics, documented in interviews, personal accounts, and other places.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    When I visited them, I found the company was full of very young, very naïve, kool-aid drinkers.
ProfessorLayton 10y ago
While their explanation is reasonable, I have little reason to trust a company that settled an investigation specifically about location tracking abuse. I've pretty much dropped their app and switched to their mobile site, which is bound to my browser's location settings. Additionally I'll only use them if they're significantly cheaper than lyft from now on.
- deathanatos 10y ago
  > While their explanation is reasonable Their explanation is illogical: > Previously, Uber only collected data from the user if the rider had the application open. Now, if a rider calls for an Uber and closes the app, Uber says it will continue to collect location data up until five minutes after the ride ends. That means Uber can see where you end up after you leave the car. That's the change; the reasoning for this change? > Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot. That, of course, doesn't occur in the five minutes after I get out of the car. They of course mention more generically, > "We do this to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service, and to enhance safety," Uber says on its website. But that's not really enlightening … and not a convincing reason for having it persist beyond the app being open.
  - joesb 10y ago
    > That, of course, doesn't occur in the five minutes after I get out of the car. The logic is that it is likely that you will likely use Uber to go back as well. And they can't track your actual pickup spot unless they keep the tracking always on until you are picked up, which will be way more than 5 minutes.
colept 10y ago
Devil's advocate: I had an Uber driver drop me off in a sketchy alley three blocks from the location I specified, but because he barely spoke a lick of English I had trouble communicating that it wasn't my stop.
- xiaoma 10y ago
  How many stars did you give him?
- redditmigrant 10y ago
  You can choose to report that.
- jacalata 10y ago
  They already had the data showing where he dropped you off, what do you think they're going to do with the extra data?
  - colept 10y ago
    See where guests are dropped off, and where they go right afterwards such as if they're cutting trips short or being dropped off too far.
amluto 10y ago
I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing anything in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don't click the little app icon, the app shouldn't run, full stop.
- JankyTurtle 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure with most Android phones you can kill applications that are sent to the background immediately.
- 31reasons 10y ago
  Not even for messaging app?
  - jacalata 10y ago
    An option. Not a requirement for all apps.
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    I don't think they're suggesting a single toggle for the whole phone, just that it be a setting you can force for individual apps. You'd only do it to apps that have no business running in the background like Uber.
- kakarot 10y ago
  Android can do that if you enable developer tools. Not sure if it can be easily overridden by an app or not
- dgallagher 10y ago
  iOS gives you the option to disable Background App Refresh either for all apps, or for individual apps: Settings -> General -> Background App Refresh
  - wheelerwj 10y ago
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
In iOS, most apps request your location "Always", "While Using the App" or "Never". I had Uber set to the second; that option is now gone. It's always or never. Set it to never; this makes their app less usable, but that just nudges me to use Lyft, Juno, et cetera.
- honkhonkpants 10y ago
  This makes the app flat out not work for me. I just get blank panes top and bottom. https://s11.postimg.org/by249fhsz/IMG_1459.png https://s11.postimg.org/by249fhsz/IMG_1459.png
  - mittsh 10y ago
    Yep, I've got exactly the same yesterday until Uber asked me to grant "Always" location tracking. Not only I dislike the forceful location grant but they had a bug that didn't prompt me for it until I rebooted the app twice :)
- shostack 10y ago
  Can you set it to never, set it to always while using it, and set it to never when the ride ends?
  - boulos 10y ago
    Yes. And I've been doing this for the past week (Uber integrates better with Concur, which we use for expense reporting). I finally reinstalled Lyft, but I just don't take personal rides that often.
- shostack 10y ago
  Can you set it to never, set it to always while using it, and set it to never when the ride ends?
- shostack 10y ago
  Can you set it to never, set it to always while using it, and set it to never when the ride ends?
triplesec 10y ago
In android you can prevent apps from sending mobile data to the cloud in the background. Go to Settings > Connections tab > Data Usage, and scroll down to the app. There's a 'restrict background data' checkbox.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  So they'll just record the data in the background and send it when the app is in use.
  - triplesec 10y ago
    I agree, quite possibly, although not all developers are as competent as you'd hope / fear
yladiz 10y ago
I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose "While Using" in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for "Always" or "Never" on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it's not all or nothing. I'm a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They know where I was picked up and where I'm going, why do they need to know where I'm at after I get dropped off? That's a little intrusive to me. The proposed argument in the article, "Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot," is fine and I'd accept that even though I'm extremely wary of apps that have access to my GPS data while I'n not using the app because I can't see it in fine detail (as far as I know you only can see that some app is accessing your GPS currently, not which one(s) exactly). However, Uber has no need for the data after I am finished. I'm not a fan of being tracked in general, by governments or otherwise, but for a private company to request data after I finish using their services is intrusive and maybe this is conspiracy but I wouldn't be surprised if this data is sent real time and it's possible to see where a user is at any given time after they leave the car (during that 5 minute window). I'm also curious how this will bump up against EU privacy laws. I'm in the states and this may only be enabled for certain markets, but I wonder if this would cause issues in EU if it's enabled there.
- HappyTypist 10y ago
  It's to analyse where riders actually go after being dropped off; for example understanding that if you want to go to building XYZ you have to get off here. Collecting data for self driving cars probably.
  - yladiz 10y ago
    Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.
nibs 10y ago
What about using m.uber.com with a browser that sandboxes location data requests effectively?
hrehhf 10y ago
Isn't it reasonable to want a taxi service that doesn't track its customers beyond 1 single ride? For example, a regular taxi paid with cash?
- macintux 10y ago
  I'm fortunate enough to have a small taxi service that operates near me. I probably spend more but I like their API: call the phone number and get a ride.
niksmac 10y ago
I am very irritated with this update, it is so unnecessary and iOS is complaining about the location access as well. I dont see any possible use of tracking the location after the ride except tracking the users location and create a surge pricing out of it.
dariusm5 10y ago
I had to restore my iPhone from a week old backup in order to get the previous Uber version back. It's a shame there's no easier way to downgrade an app on iOS.
- arm 10y ago
  There is, but only if you update apps in iTunes on your computer instead of directly on your iPhone. Basically, update the app in iTunes (which will send the old IPA package (which is still signed to your Apple ID) into the Trash / Recycle Bin, then connect your iPhone to your computer and sync to replace the old app with the new one. You’ll still have the old IPA package in your computer’s Trash / Recycle Bin, so if you ever need to downgrade to the older version of the app, just move it out of the Trash / Recycle Bin, delete the newer version of the app in iTunes, and then double-click on the old IPA package to have it open in iTunes. Then, you can just connect your iPhone to your computer and sync.
masterleep 10y ago
There is no chance whatsoever that I'm going to give Uber access to my location while not using the app, so this just makes it harder to me to be a customer.
bogomipz 10y ago
This from the company who recently settled a fine with the A.G in New York for uasge of its "god view" tool: "Uber and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman have reached a settlement over the company's "God View" tool, which allowed employees to access and track the location of Uber riders and customers without obtaining permission." http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10726004/uber-god-mode-settlement-fine http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10726004/uber-god-mode-sett...
electic 10y ago
There is something very powerful you can do: 1. Stop using uber. Delete it. There is Lyft and Juno (in select markets). 2. Tell your friends about the dangers of using Uber. You can make a profound change by voting with your pocket book. Lastly, believe it or not, a lot of your friends look to you for tech advice. Be vocal.
- pjlegato 10y ago
  This is likely to work about as well as when a large number of tech people went around telling all their friends that Microsoft was evil in the 90s and early 2000s -- which is to say, not at all. Empirically, very few people care much about their own privacy, and they seem to be entirely uninterested in hearing sermons on the topic. It'd be great if that worked, but it doesn't, so that won't solve this problem.
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    Windows, an OS, was not a commodity. Uber's service is.
- jorblumesea 10y ago
  There's nothing to stop the competition from doing the same. The real issue is absolutely zero consequences for invasion of privacy.
- btgeekboy 10y ago
  When people ask why I use Lyft instead of Uber, I tell them about their sleazy actions a few years back (journalist intimidation, "god mode", etc.). I now have an up to date example to add. Thanks, Uber!
- Steeeve 10y ago
  Surprise. If you have an AT&T Samsung phone you can't uninstall it. The best you can do is go into Application Settings and Disable it. And then make sure you answer the two confirmation dialogs correctly for it to actually get disabled. And guess what? It's already running. Even if you haven't used the app any time recently.
greggman 10y ago
> Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot. This makes no sense to me. I tell them the pickup point so they don't need to know where I am since I already told them where I want to be picked up. Conversely I found it very frustrating they didn't (used to?) take destination into account. Example: I want to go south. They should arguably prefer drivers that are north of me. Instead I'm just guessing they just ping all drivers within some range. Some of those drivers are south of me. In a city like SF that can end up adding 5-10 minutes to the wait because they may have to go 3-6 long blocks around to get north of me so they can go south AND so they can pick me up on the south bound side of the road. It requires no GPS data from me to know that. It only requires that I enter where I want to be picked up and where I want to go. I suppose it's possible I'm waiting on the north bound side even if I want to go south. Maybe they could ask "we'll pick you up on the south bound side. Ok?" or something to that effect.
- dcosson 10y ago
  I think there's a lot of variance between people, and it's largely a matter of preference. Some people are happy to walk a block or two in order to make the most efficient trip depending on where the driver is approaching from and where they're going, and some people just want to plop it down and not think about it and have the company/driver figure out how to come exactly to them and figure out which way to go.
  - aithoughts 10y ago
    I always feel like an oddball for calling my driver to make it more convenient for him (and faster for me) to pick me up. I usually Lyft line it though, so it's just a time boost (price is the same either way).
0xmohit 10y ago
I wrote to Uber a week back or so regarding this and this how they responded: My name is Pratik from Uber support, I hope you doing well ! Sorry to hear about about your experience.. I completely understand that this wasn't the experience you expect with Uber. We are constantly working to improve the Uber experience and your input is crucial to doing so. I’ll pass this along to the appropriate team. Thanks again! ---- There wasn't a response upon posting a comment to their blog regarding the same.
- osi 10y ago
  That's the bullshit response they give you to anything that isn't solvable with a ride credit.
foxhop 10y ago
Ethics. I'm not sure when ethics will matter again. We almost need a movement from startups that promise certain ethics. It would be a refreshing change.
bkmrkr 10y ago
And I'm switching to Lyft
dman 10y ago
Just lost me as a customer.
- stevenhubertron 10y ago
  Me as well. A step to far for my liking.
intrasight 10y ago
Just uninstall the app after you get your ride, and reinstall it next time you need it.
jungc 10y ago
Uber also charges significantly different prices between users. My friends and I did a test and each time, I keep getting charged at least $6 more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMm4ehc7oCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMm4ehc7oCw
- xapata 10y ago
  That's clever of them. Perhaps your elasticity of demand is lower.
  - jungc 10y ago
    I was a huge fan until now. I'm really disappointed that they pick and choose who they think should pay more for the same ride.
    - xapata 10y ago
      I'm not. It's called "price discrimination" and if you don't do that at your business, you should. Whenever you hear a fun story about enterprise pricing, that's what it's talking about. Mobile phones make it more specific.
myrandomcomment 10y ago
Set to Never. Hum, I think I will give Lyft a try now. Never bothered to before.
trengrj 10y ago
How to delete your Uber account: https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a
Bahamut 10y ago
I noticed this in the past two weeks - as a result, if I use Uber, I toggle it on, and afterwards I turn it off. This is pretty crappy, I don't need an app punishing my battery by default just so they can collect more data. It really makes me think twice about sticking with Uber.
radialbrain 10y ago
Great reason to use their Web app instead of the native one - same functionality, and no such worries.
boulos 10y ago
A ha! This thread has reminded me to check whether Background App Refresh might block this. Apple's iOS Developer Docs seem to strongly imply that's the case [1]: > Important: A user can explicitly disable background capabilities for any app. If a user disables Background App Refresh in the Settings app—either globally for all apps or for your app in particular—your app is prevented from using any location services in the background. You can determine whether your app can process location updates in the background by checking the value of the backgroundRefreshStatus property of the UIApplication class. Time to go disable Background App Refresh for the Uber app and leave location as "Always". Edit: Yep! Disabled Background App Refresh and verified after a bit that the little "Some app is using your location" icon went away. Spread the word (and please Uber Engineering, don't try to stop us...) [1] https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/LocationAwarenessPG/CoreLocation/CoreLocation.html https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Us...
- newscracker 10y ago
  Thanks for this workaround, the description and the link. As disturbing as it is that Uber is subjecting paying customers to such despicable treatment, I'm glad to know that there is an easier workaround (for iOS users) than turning on and off the location services permission before and after each ride to control this! I don't have Background Refresh on at all (for any apps) since I find it draining the battery a lot for very little practical benefit for my usage.
- prashnts 10y ago
  Weird, this probably did/does not work for me. I had Background App Refresh for Uber and several other apps off for a long time, and I was presented with the notification that "Uber is using your location in background" yesterday. I did not use Uber yesterday.
MrGando 10y ago
I'm not sharing my location with Uber anymore on my iPhone App. Pretty simple.
nikcub 10y ago
re: Uber's reasoning one thing to keep in mind: this is the last opt-in user privacy hurdle for Uber. From here, any change Uber or an acquirer make doesn't alert or ask users. always-on location tracking is ring0 of personal privacy. They can remove that 5 minute monitoring window any time with an app update. Question isn't 'do I trust what Uber say to justify this change', but 'will I trust Uber to protect my privacy and security forever'
dcosson 10y ago
Am I the only one who thinks this is actually a very small amount of additional data to give up, and don't mind doing it? I'm willing to accept there's a small chance it might make the service a little better for me. They already know exactly where I came from and where I'm going, what could I possibly do in the 5 minutes after getting dropped off that would reveal significantly more information?
beefield 10y ago
Just wondering, are there virtualization/sandboxing apps/solutions that would let me create full emulated mobile environments into my phone and control all the sensor data that the environment is seeing?
- 0xmohit 10y ago
  Another possibility is to keep a dedicated phone for Uber. Turn it on only when needed. Not sure how practical it would be, though.
jayajay 10y ago
"Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after the trip ends, including when the app is in the background" -- Uber. Is this legally gray, or am I paranoid? Not-scary Interpretation 1: Uber collects location data from t_0 to t_1 regardless of whether or not the app is in the background. Scary Interpretation 2: Uber collects location data from t_0 to t_1 and when the app is in the background. I'm surprised they didn't start doing this 4 years ago. Location data is really fucking good data to have on people, which is why I would rather not be giving it away willynilly. Additionally, Uber's service is one of the few services where getting this data can be justified and seems less creepy.
dmVI 10y ago
Quick check on my iPhone shows that it allows for (and is set to) "While Using the App" for location access settings. Running latest iOS release.
Animats 10y ago
Won't this drain the battery, with Uber's app running in background?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
julochrobak 10y ago
The situation is getting serious in general. There are many many apps that people use daily. How can one find out what data is being collected per application? It would be really nice to a have a web site where the community (technical people who can inspect the apps) could maintain this information per application and a user could see a simple green/red bullets and decide whether the app is worth it or not. Really, really high level, designed for end-user (non-technical).
- ptx 10y ago
  F-Droid shows a list of antifeatures[0] along with the description of each application. Here is one example with the "tracking antifeature": https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=at.tomtasche.reader https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=at.tomtasche.rea... [0] https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeatures https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeatures
oulipo 10y ago
Privacy-by-design now is more important than ever, this is why we build on this with https://snips.ai https://snips.ai
bad_user 10y ago
I actually noticed this - iOS has this nice feature of giving warnings like "Uber has been tracking your location", which was a WTF moment for me because I haven't used Uber that day at all. So in response I've cut its location access completely. I've also had a similar experience with Waze. WTF are these apps doing with my location while I'm not using them? Btw, for all the badmouthing I've given Apple and iOS over the years, this is one feature of iOS that I like. But I would have preferred the option to force location tracking only while using the app.
- jfoldager 10y ago
  I was going to say that you can choose to only allow access to your location while using the app, but then I checked in iOS. Some apps only have the choice between always and never. Is it up to the developer to remove/put in the option "While Using the App"?
gandutraveler 10y ago
I think they are doing this also to stop riders/drivers who game Uber. Riders walking patterns post-ride can be also used for predicting return pickup locations for concerts etc.
sdoering 10y ago
I am asking myself, if this could mean, we can "kill" Uber in Germany for good. Our data protection laws state, that you are only allowed to track the necessary data to provide the service. Tracking users after the use a service is imho not really encompassing the spirit of the law. Surely Uber lawyers could state that this is necessary information for making the service better for the user - like always. Non the less - one more reason not to ever use a service provided by this company.
- PMan74 10y ago
  Not just Germany, I'm pretty sure this is an EU wide directive. For sure it's the it works in Ireland (where thankfully Uber has not had any success). So Uber must have some view on why this does not contravene that directive, I doubt they have not considered it.
TuringNYC 10y ago
Putting aside all the other arguments regarding privacy, ethics, etc, I have a more acute issue: battery life. I allow almost no app "Always Using" privileges on location because of battery drain. I saw this update on Uber yesterday and now i've had to literally turn on and off Location services altogether when using/not-using Uber to prevent potential battery drain. Over the weekend, now I need to run a test to see how Uber performs on the "24 hr Battery Usage" stats with Location always on. That is a lot of work for a retail device, but I'm also so dependent on Uber now (gave up having a car!)...
DavidWanjiru 10y ago
According to the permissions request dialogue, "...We [want to collect your data even after you're dropped off] to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service and to enhance safety..." I don't buy any of it. Here's why: IMPROVE DROP-OFFS: The most improved drop-off that Uber can deliver is the one I, the passenger, gives them, either verbally to the driver, via GPS by them noting the point where I was dropped off, or via GPS by me entering my destination location. Normally, I ask to be dropped off where it's most convenient for me, and the most convenient for me is the best drop-off experience possible. Even if after being dropped off, I go to a final destination for which Uber reckons a better drop-off point than the one I chose exists, it's not for Uber to say, based on where I am going, what my best drop off point is. That's for me, the customer, to say. Since when does a cab tell you where to drop you off? Unless I don't know where I am going, in which case Uber already knows what the best drop off point is, and has no need to further improve it. IMPROVE PICKUPS. Presumably, the pickup will be improved based on historical location data, which tells them, this guy actually goes/lives/drinks/et here, something we know coz we tracked him last time he used Uber. Again, when I board a cab, I go to the point of most convenience for me. I'd probably have a cab come right to my bedroom door inside my house if it were possible, but since it's not, I choose the next best possible point, which is normally the same place they dropped me off at if they're the ones who brought me here. Same argument applies: unless I'm a stranger, my choice of pickup point is the best pickup point experience possible, and needs no further improvement. If based on where I'm coming from, Uber reckon there's a better pickup point, it's not for them to say. They're a cab. A cab comes get you where you want it to come get you, the location of your bedroom door and other laws and issues permitting. CUSTOMER SERVICE: This sounds tenuous. Nothing that I can think of that can be termed as good customer service from a cab company would be improved by tracking my movement after the cab has dropped me off. Some good customer service issues have nothing to do with my location, and the two that do are the ones I've discussed above. ENHANCE SAFETY. Again, tenuous without more explanation. How does knowing where I go after you drop me off enhance safety either for myself or the driver? I've seen a comment from some who says they work at Uber saying that this helps to figure out where the pick up spots for each address are, that a large building may have multiple points where people get picked up or dropped off. Which sounds reasonable, until you realize that the point that I got dropped off is the best one for me, which is why I chose it, and you, Uber, already know that because you've just dropped me off. Tracking me AFTER dropping me off doesn't make your knowledge of my best drop off more accurate, it makes it less accurate since I'm moving further and further away from the best drop off point as you continue to track me.
buro9 10y ago
For Uber and UberEats I now manually manage these in Android (which I do for a few other apps I have lower trust for). Which means I shut off all permissions between uses, and I block all notifications. I grant Location, only as needed to get a driver or place an order. Once I'm in the car, I turn airplane mode on, deny all permissions and notifications, and I reboot the phone. Isn't it crazy that this is where we are now. Invasive tracking has become so normal that I have to manage the access an app has in such a tightly constrained way. I'm starting to think a 2nd device that I leave turned off 99% of the time would be an easier way to sandbox apps I don't trust.
- skeptic2718 10y ago
  No taxis in your area? Maybe a central phone number you can call to hail one? Why Uber and all this trouble?
  - SixSigma 10y ago
    My guess is because Uber is subsidising the ride and providing convenient bill paying options.
  - buro9 10y ago
    I'm in London, and public transport is good enough for most journeys, and I loathe black cabs far more than I feel anything (except distrust) about Uber. Uber works wherever I am in London, it's cheap enough (realistic compared to black cabs). It's good enough, but not good enough that I'm fine with their various invasive activities. One not mentioned elsewhere is how they use both rider and driver mobiles as a kind of distributed cache/database. Which is the thing that started me off on "kill the background process", initially to spare my own data and battery.
- pawadu 10y ago
  Have you tested any automation apps for Android like Tasker [1] and Automate [2] for doing all this automagically? [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.android.taskerm https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.llamalab.automate https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.llamalab.a...
lerpa 10y ago
"Uber now discloses it does this"
reacharavindh 10y ago
I voted with my wallet and deleted Uber from my phone. My little contribution to the world. And wrote a message to my friends that I did so, and why they should consider it.
mwexler 10y ago
I despise apps that do "Always" or "Never" for Location Tracking. It's really reflective of the larger issue of control of data, but this is particularly galling when the app hasn't given you an option nor a good reason for "Always" tracking. I'm always surprised when each iOS update continues _allowing the app to define available choices_ instead of giving the consumer the "While Using" option for any app requesting location.
- robbiemitchell 10y ago
  Part of this is due to limitations in how iOS communicates this to users. "Always" can refer to either (1) always-on GPS, or (2) Bluetooth, which will ping app-owned beacons. The Bluetooth option is significantly narrower in scope, but uses the same dialog as the GPS. I worked for a company that relied on Bluebooth beacons to provide a critical app experience (notifications before app itself is opened), so the app blocked the login screen until the Bluetooth-driven "Always" location authorization was granted. It was a headache explaining to users.
mikebay 10y ago
Every "accidentally" tracking situations are always noted by normal user. How it's possible that every privacy breach need so much media attention before it's "fixed"?
imgabe 10y ago
Uber is somehow ridiculously bad with giving directions. Despite manually entering the address for a number of places, Uber insists on directing drivers into unmarked alleys instead of onto the street outside. You know, the actual street that's named in the freaking address. Instead of invading their customers' privacy they could start by just using the information they've been given.
fsavard 10y ago
There was an episode of the american version of the "modern Sherlock Holmes" TV series, "Elementary", where the plot revolved around a company akin to Uber (called Zooss in the show). It was particularly illustrative of how tempting it can be for internal employees to abuse that type of data. Among other things Sherlock was able to requisition a large fraction of the company GPS tracking data for his murder investigation. As a side effect he was able to figure out who was having an affair, who was going for an interview at a competitor's company, etc. 5 minutes after drop-off is quite enough to uncover where you meant to _really_ go if you gave a close-by address, in these scenarios. That's pretty much what the OP meant with "So your secret rendezvous may not be so secret" but it's particularly poignant in a TV show.
cOgnaut 10y ago
Please forgive my ignorance, but do most hackers leave their phone's GPS antenna turned on most of the time? And do most hackers update all their apps automatically? I generally do a "broad" update once or twice a year. And I update specific apps as needed (or desired). I would have assumed most hackers would do these kinds of things. It's like putting a tape "lid" over your webcam and only taking it off when you want to use it. Isn't it?

812 points by doctorshady 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Yeah REALLY obnoxious. I was just disabling this after another Uber ride. They do not provide the option to enable location services only when the app is running on screen. I think it might be nice if iOS presented this option regardless of what Uber wants.

micaksica 10y ago
> I think it might be nice if iOS presented this option regardless of what Uber wants. I delete any application that requires all-or-nothing location privileges; if Uber acts this way now I'm done using Uber. Being able to make it such that location services are an all-or-nothing proposition when there is clearly support for "only when using" in iOS annoys me to no end. The fact Apple doesn't do this is what is actually alarming, given their stance on "privacy".
- otoburb 10y ago
  >>I delete any application that requires all-or-nothing location privileges; if Uber acts this way now I'm done using Uber. This is the calculated risk Uber is taking. Presumably they believe that they will only lose a tiny sliver of their user base over the all-or-nothing approach. Now that they're well past the "early adoption" phase in many markets this is a "smart" corporate play.
  - micaksica 10y ago
    I am aware of the strategy behind Uber's move. My comment above is "count me out". I doubt they'll lose even 1% of their installed userbase over this change.
- givinguflac 10y ago
  On one hand I agree with you, but it wouldn't work as a unilateral policy. There are definitely apps (such as a weather widget, for one example) that lose major functionality if you don't allow location even when not technically in the app. Either way, I won't be using Uber anymore for this reason.
Perceptes 10y ago
I switched to Lyft because of this.
tass 10y ago
I denied permission to location as soon as this change happened with the intention of enabling and disabling before each ride. It's now more convenient to use competitors apps, though, and i haven't actually used uber since the change.
tass 10y ago
I denied permission to location as soon as this change happened with the intention of enabling and disabling before each ride. It's now more convenient to use competitors apps, though, and i haven't actually used uber since the change.

baumant 10y ago

"Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after the trip ends, including when the app is in the background." From source listed in the article: https://help.uber.com/h/ba9dd342-158d-421f-a9ea-0e6c7aaad726 https://help.uber.com/h/ba9dd342-158d-421f-a9ea-0e6c7aaad726

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
Counting down to the FBI NSL'ing [1] Uber for persistent, warrantless surveillance... [1] https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters
- mahyarm 10y ago
  They don't need to, since they have the much better source of cell phone carriers with 24/7 location. And google android OS and apple to a certain extent.
  - mentat 10y ago
    Yes, people are like "oh NSL". Are they not paying attention to carrier access, stingray, general SIGINT? Like really this is HN at its most ridiculous.
- mc32 10y ago
  Or in countries which have family registries it can be used to track people who fail to update the registry or move to a city illegally in places where intra-national movement is restricted.
RKearney 10y ago
"The website “https://help.uber.com” https://help.uber.com” would like to use your current location."
- bobbles 10y ago
  I think its pretty relevant if someone is looking for uber help that they could use the location to help narrow down who should be dealing with the issue...

dav43 10y ago

This is the perfect example of development for the sake of development. The new user experience is terrible and provides the user with zero extra benefits. I seriously can't see how a product manager signs off on these updates.

jonathankoren 10y ago
This isn't "development for the sake of development", no data collection is for that. This is to figure out where people are going. Addresses give you an idea, but they're not always precise. You may just give an intersection. Now, they're trying to figure out your actual destination. They're going to use this for monetization somehow. It's always about monetization. '
- HappyTypist 10y ago
  It's about self driving cars. So they know where to drive you to; to actually get somewhere.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    That doesn't make any sense. Think about it. How does a cab driver get you to your location? Well you explicitly tell him by giving an address, or the name of a POI, or drop a pin on a map. You're then taken to the location you specified. Now, as you approach the location, you make a choice to either finish the ride, or abort it early by telling the driver, "Hey, this close enough. Just let me out wherever." At this point, the cab driver doesn't care, as long as he gets paid and you're happy it's a successful transaction. So what does following you do? Well it finds your actual final destination. Which restaurant. Which house. Which apartment. Which store. So that brings up two questions. First, how does this true final destination information give a better rider experience? Well it's not exactly clear, since the rider gave explicit destination information at the start of the transaction, or explicitly ended the ride when they became satisfied. So, what's in it for the driver? Well that's not clear at all either, since rider was already satisfied and the driver got paid. So what doesn't it do for Uber? Well, now they have popularity of specific POIs. Which bar. Which restaurant. Which store. That's valuable information. You could use that to deduce rider profiles that include things such as taste preferences, and income level. Then you can use that information for differential pricing (e.g. "This dude has a bunch of disposable income, charge him an extra two bucks.") I'm sure there's other things you can do with it, but my point is that it's not useful for navigation, at all, but does give economic information which could be squeezed, and attempts to squeeze all the money they can from essentially a car service on demand app, is Uber's MO.

melvinmt 10y ago

> Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after ends trip ends, including when the app is in the background. We do this to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service, and to enhance safety. Meh, sounds reasonable as long as they don't collect data outside this window (although they should not make it all-or-nothing, a third option of "While in use" would be better).

djeikyb 10y ago
"While in use" is exactly what they used to do. It allowed the driver to see my location as long as I left the app open. Now the uber app is unreasonable. It demands permission to stalk me at any time, else I use a hobbled version of the app.
redditmigrant 10y ago
The problem is that there is no user-facing setting that can say, 5 minutes only. So going from 5 to 10 to always becomes a decision that can be taken without informing the user at all.
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
This is how the Overton Window shifts. Trouble is, now I have to walk 5 minutes in the opposite direction before turning around and meeting my dealer / going to the brothel / whatever you don't want posted on paste bin. Another issue arises when a "bug" records your location for 5 hours instead of 5 minutes.
- cmontella 10y ago
  Yup, which is a strong possibility for Uber. I had an Uber charge me for a ride that continued for 12 hours after I had been dropped off. Uber had no problem billing me >$300 for this. If they don't have safeguards in place for questionable fare collection, they surely don't have safeguards in place for questionable data collection.
  - greggman 10y ago

fencepost 10y ago

I can't say I'm heartbroken that Uber disabled my account after my card on file was replaced (thanks Home Depot!) and I didn't update it. This wasn't even tied to requesting a ride, I think I'd opened the app to see what coverage in a suburban area looked like. IIRC the "get my account back" process was going to involve sending a copy of my drivers license and the dead card which had been cut up several months earlier, and it just wasn't worth the hassle of even following up. And this was even before all the "all your ride of shame are belong to us" brouhaha - so now they want to track your walks of shame as well?

necessity 10y ago

PrivacyGuard and Orwall prevent applications from using the internet/GPS without your express authorization. Anyway if you want absolute privacy toss your smartphone in the trash can, cancel your contract with your ISP, commit social suicide and go live off the grid.

uabstraction 10y ago
Imagine if the Founding Fathers decided to forgo western civilization and go live in the woods as nomadic hunter gatherers instead of standing up to British oppression... Or if all the blacks just listened to Marcus Garvey and went back to Africa instead of participating in the American Civil Rights Movement. This is basically what you're suggesting. We have the technological means to ensure reasonable levels of privacy. There's no excuse for lemon technology that exposes every intimate detail of our lives.
- necessity 10y ago
  ... except Uber, Google, carriers, etc, are not oppressive.
  - cowpig 10y ago
    The fact that nobody's used a nuclear weapon offensively since WWII doesn't mean nuclear proliferation is fine. Similarly, the proliferation of extremely powerful information is obviously dangerous, regardless of whether it is causing active harm currently.
coolstorydude89 10y ago
I am already slowly inching toward this, I removed Internet access from my home, and don't use any smartphone applications at all. I have not seen any adverse effect on my life/productivity from doing this, people overestimate the amount that they actually need these services. In reality they mostly amount to useless appendages. Especially in an era with free wifi nearly everywhere, being on grid/off grid is as simple as whipping a laptop out of my bag and turning it on. Persistent connectivity is not a need.

uuilly 10y ago

Yeah, after being a "dozen rides a week" Uber user for the last year, I switched to Lyft. There is just no reason for this.

hvmonk 10y ago
How do you know Lyft doesn't do that? Any blogpost, article would be helpful. Thanks.
- untog 10y ago
  You don't know until someone investigates, obviously. But if you have to choose between an app that definitely does that and an app that might do it, it makes sense to use the one that might in the meantime. There's an opportunity for Lyft to be "Uber, but for not scummy business practises" here, but I suppose most users don't really care. Austin would have been a good test of that, but Lyft withdrew along with Uber.
  - subdane 10y ago
    There's also the "god view" scandal which Uber definitely did get sued for (there haven't been similar lawsuits against Lyft) https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-settles-godview https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-settles-godview
  - joatmon-snoo 10y ago
    Lyft, sadly, doesn't seem to have the talent it needs to pull this off. Although they're still worth something, it just doesn't seem like Lyft will be able to eke it out unless something really game-changing happens to Uber. I've been a longtime Lyft user because of the stories that surfaced a few years ago about Uber considering blackmailing reporters and politicians with their ride data, but the last time I had to use the app, Lyft for some reason just wasn't working - their auth service seemed to be broken. I ended up downloading Uber and signing up because I had to get somewhere in a hurry and didn't have the time to look up another rideshare service. Their text notifications about driver arrivals are also always off, on the order of up to a minute or two (I don't know if Uber is better, but I would assume it is.) FWIW, I'd also sunk something like $300 into Lyft rides just two weeks before that for business travel, and I didn't experience a problem once.

erkose 10y ago

Why do we accept this intrusion into our lives?

synicalx 10y ago
I accept it because I don't really care if Uber knows where I am for a couple of minutes after they drop me off. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you don't like it there's nothing stopping you from uninstalling the app.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  The issue then becomes Uber is doing it so all the other ride hailing apps start doing it. This is how the Overton Window shifts, and how our right to privacy is rapidly eroded.
  - AlexandrB 10y ago
    If you described 2016 to me in 2004, I'd call you a paranoid lunatic, yet here we are. I'm starting to realize that many of the "alarmist" voices [1] of that time were, in fact, optimistic. Thinking about what's considered "alarmist" today makes me fear for the future. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect.html http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect....
- bigiain 10y ago
  Any you trust them (as a company) that they'll "only track you for 5 minutes after using the app", and you trust each of their staff members will have controlled/secured/audited access to only the 5 minutes location data after a trip, and you trust them to never deploy a production bug in their tracking code, and you trust every law enforcement or business partner request for that data including gag-order-backed-NSLs. And that's OK - if you're good with that. Now go and ask some women you know whether they have all that trust? Or minorities. Or activists. If you were a Muslim or Mexican in the US right now - do you suppose you'd be happy leaving an Uber app with "Always" location tracking permission on your phone past Jan 20th? If you had a close friend legally and peacefully protesting the pipeline in North Dakota right now and you knew they used Uber - would you be checking that they know this? I reject the position that because _you_ don't really care, that it's OK to "accept" this. Even though _you_ don't care, tell Uber you do not accept this because of what it means for your sister or friends or coworkers or neighbours or your allegedly "freedom loving" society...

forrestthewoods 10y ago

I ranted about this last weekend. No app, positively no app, gets "always" access to my location info. I don't care what their "privacy policy" says. I'm annoyed Apple even allows this. It shouldn't even be an option. Clearly iOS needs more fine tuned permissions. I can share my location with a friend for an hour. I'd Uber wants 5 minutes worth then they should be granted 5 minutes worth. Not infinite and unlimited. Uber used to work just fine with "while running" permission. They're removal of that is extremely user hostile. I deleted the app and will use Lyft instead. I suggest everyone do the same. Waze also made a similar change. Waze also got deleted. We must not accept this behavior.

redditmigrant 10y ago
One thing iOS shouldn't allow is for apps to pick this all or nothing user setting. Apps should be forced to deal with user changing the location setting from always to only while using. If its an option in the OS , app developers, especially big ones like Uber will build for that experience.
- therec 10y ago
  Agreed! You should be able to give access to GPS only when running the app, I really do not like the All or Nothing policy. After all, there is no reasonable reason to justify the use of any phone resources when not using the app. In my phone Waze keeps using the GPS even if I kill the app and even after a fresh restart! I obviously deleted Waze now, but not without regret. :-(
free2rhyme214 10y ago
Agreed. I deleted Waze yesterday and set Uber to "Never" until they fix this.

jonathankoren 10y ago

Uber is really a scummy company. And given their track record with absuing user data, I don't trust them at all with this new expansive data collection effort. Let's review the company shall we? The CEO, Travis Kalanick, has used God View to monitor people for entertainment.[0] The head of their NYC office also go into hot water over using God View inappropriately[1]. At other companies, these would be fireable offenses. No second chances. Deactivate the counts. Escort them to the door. Mail them their stuff. At Uber, it's totally cool brah. There's the whole "you're not our employee, but we pay you, and tell you where to go, and how to act." They explicitly target low income people to be their totally-not-employees, through direct mail, and their "urban" "Get your side hustle on!" commercials. Their auto financing product is predatory.[2] It explicitly targets people bad credit to lease a car they can't pay for unless they're constantly totally-not-employed-with Uber. The interest rates are usury levels of 22.75% APR. Then of course there's the whole, "Fuck the law!" aspect of the company. [0] http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/10/03/god-view-uber-allegedly-stalked-users-for-party-goers-viewing-pleasure/#5091567d3f84 http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/10/03/god-view-... [1] https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-is-investigating-its-top-new-york-executive-for-privacy?utm_term=.twjvZpzBx#.nnPWOkaRz https://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/uber-is-investigating... [2] http://www.marketplace.org/2015/05/13/tech/uber-drivers-struggle-pay-subprime-auto-loans http://www.marketplace.org/2015/05/13/tech/uber-drivers-stru...

WhitneyLand 10y ago
I take issue with your summary. You forgot arrogant and douchy antics, documented in interviews, personal accounts, and other places.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  When I visited them, I found the company was full of very young, very naïve, kool-aid drinkers.

ProfessorLayton 10y ago

While their explanation is reasonable, I have little reason to trust a company that settled an investigation specifically about location tracking abuse. I've pretty much dropped their app and switched to their mobile site, which is bound to my browser's location settings. Additionally I'll only use them if they're significantly cheaper than lyft from now on.

deathanatos 10y ago
> While their explanation is reasonable Their explanation is illogical: > Previously, Uber only collected data from the user if the rider had the application open. Now, if a rider calls for an Uber and closes the app, Uber says it will continue to collect location data up until five minutes after the ride ends. That means Uber can see where you end up after you leave the car. That's the change; the reasoning for this change? > Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot. That, of course, doesn't occur in the five minutes after I get out of the car. They of course mention more generically, > "We do this to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service, and to enhance safety," Uber says on its website. But that's not really enlightening … and not a convincing reason for having it persist beyond the app being open.
- joesb 10y ago
  > That, of course, doesn't occur in the five minutes after I get out of the car. The logic is that it is likely that you will likely use Uber to go back as well. And they can't track your actual pickup spot unless they keep the tracking always on until you are picked up, which will be way more than 5 minutes.

colept 10y ago

Devil's advocate: I had an Uber driver drop me off in a sketchy alley three blocks from the location I specified, but because he barely spoke a lick of English I had trouble communicating that it wasn't my stop.

xiaoma 10y ago
How many stars did you give him?
redditmigrant 10y ago
You can choose to report that.
jacalata 10y ago
They already had the data showing where he dropped you off, what do you think they're going to do with the extra data?
- colept 10y ago
  See where guests are dropped off, and where they go right afterwards such as if they're cutting trips short or being dropped off too far.

amluto 10y ago

I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing anything in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don't click the little app icon, the app shouldn't run, full stop.

JankyTurtle 10y ago
I'm pretty sure with most Android phones you can kill applications that are sent to the background immediately.
31reasons 10y ago
Not even for messaging app?
- jacalata 10y ago
  An option. Not a requirement for all apps.
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  I don't think they're suggesting a single toggle for the whole phone, just that it be a setting you can force for individual apps. You'd only do it to apps that have no business running in the background like Uber.
kakarot 10y ago
Android can do that if you enable developer tools. Not sure if it can be easily overridden by an app or not
dgallagher 10y ago
iOS gives you the option to disable Background App Refresh either for all apps, or for individual apps: Settings -> General -> Background App Refresh
- wheelerwj 10y ago

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

In iOS, most apps request your location "Always", "While Using the App" or "Never". I had Uber set to the second; that option is now gone. It's always or never. Set it to never; this makes their app less usable, but that just nudges me to use Lyft, Juno, et cetera.

honkhonkpants 10y ago
This makes the app flat out not work for me. I just get blank panes top and bottom. https://s11.postimg.org/by249fhsz/IMG_1459.png https://s11.postimg.org/by249fhsz/IMG_1459.png
- mittsh 10y ago
  Yep, I've got exactly the same yesterday until Uber asked me to grant "Always" location tracking. Not only I dislike the forceful location grant but they had a bug that didn't prompt me for it until I rebooted the app twice :)
shostack 10y ago
Can you set it to never, set it to always while using it, and set it to never when the ride ends?
- boulos 10y ago
  Yes. And I've been doing this for the past week (Uber integrates better with Concur, which we use for expense reporting). I finally reinstalled Lyft, but I just don't take personal rides that often.
shostack 10y ago
Can you set it to never, set it to always while using it, and set it to never when the ride ends?
shostack 10y ago
Can you set it to never, set it to always while using it, and set it to never when the ride ends?

triplesec 10y ago

In android you can prevent apps from sending mobile data to the cloud in the background. Go to Settings > Connections tab > Data Usage, and scroll down to the app. There's a 'restrict background data' checkbox.

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
So they'll just record the data in the background and send it when the app is in use.
- triplesec 10y ago
  I agree, quite possibly, although not all developers are as competent as you'd hope / fear

yladiz 10y ago

I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose "While Using" in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for "Always" or "Never" on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it's not all or nothing. I'm a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They know where I was picked up and where I'm going, why do they need to know where I'm at after I get dropped off? That's a little intrusive to me. The proposed argument in the article, "Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot," is fine and I'd accept that even though I'm extremely wary of apps that have access to my GPS data while I'n not using the app because I can't see it in fine detail (as far as I know you only can see that some app is accessing your GPS currently, not which one(s) exactly). However, Uber has no need for the data after I am finished. I'm not a fan of being tracked in general, by governments or otherwise, but for a private company to request data after I finish using their services is intrusive and maybe this is conspiracy but I wouldn't be surprised if this data is sent real time and it's possible to see where a user is at any given time after they leave the car (during that 5 minute window). I'm also curious how this will bump up against EU privacy laws. I'm in the states and this may only be enabled for certain markets, but I wonder if this would cause issues in EU if it's enabled there.

HappyTypist 10y ago
It's to analyse where riders actually go after being dropped off; for example understanding that if you want to go to building XYZ you have to get off here. Collecting data for self driving cars probably.
- yladiz 10y ago
  Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.

nibs 10y ago

What about using m.uber.com with a browser that sandboxes location data requests effectively?

hrehhf 10y ago

Isn't it reasonable to want a taxi service that doesn't track its customers beyond 1 single ride? For example, a regular taxi paid with cash?

macintux 10y ago
I'm fortunate enough to have a small taxi service that operates near me. I probably spend more but I like their API: call the phone number and get a ride.

niksmac 10y ago

I am very irritated with this update, it is so unnecessary and iOS is complaining about the location access as well. I dont see any possible use of tracking the location after the ride except tracking the users location and create a surge pricing out of it.

dariusm5 10y ago

I had to restore my iPhone from a week old backup in order to get the previous Uber version back. It's a shame there's no easier way to downgrade an app on iOS.

arm 10y ago
There is, but only if you update apps in iTunes on your computer instead of directly on your iPhone. Basically, update the app in iTunes (which will send the old IPA package (which is still signed to your Apple ID) into the Trash / Recycle Bin, then connect your iPhone to your computer and sync to replace the old app with the new one. You’ll still have the old IPA package in your computer’s Trash / Recycle Bin, so if you ever need to downgrade to the older version of the app, just move it out of the Trash / Recycle Bin, delete the newer version of the app in iTunes, and then double-click on the old IPA package to have it open in iTunes. Then, you can just connect your iPhone to your computer and sync.

masterleep 10y ago

There is no chance whatsoever that I'm going to give Uber access to my location while not using the app, so this just makes it harder to me to be a customer.

bogomipz 10y ago

This from the company who recently settled a fine with the A.G in New York for uasge of its "god view" tool: "Uber and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman have reached a settlement over the company's "God View" tool, which allowed employees to access and track the location of Uber riders and customers without obtaining permission." http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10726004/uber-god-mode-settlement-fine http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10726004/uber-god-mode-sett...

electic 10y ago

There is something very powerful you can do: 1. Stop using uber. Delete it. There is Lyft and Juno (in select markets). 2. Tell your friends about the dangers of using Uber. You can make a profound change by voting with your pocket book. Lastly, believe it or not, a lot of your friends look to you for tech advice. Be vocal.

pjlegato 10y ago
This is likely to work about as well as when a large number of tech people went around telling all their friends that Microsoft was evil in the 90s and early 2000s -- which is to say, not at all. Empirically, very few people care much about their own privacy, and they seem to be entirely uninterested in hearing sermons on the topic. It'd be great if that worked, but it doesn't, so that won't solve this problem.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  Windows, an OS, was not a commodity. Uber's service is.
jorblumesea 10y ago
There's nothing to stop the competition from doing the same. The real issue is absolutely zero consequences for invasion of privacy.
btgeekboy 10y ago
When people ask why I use Lyft instead of Uber, I tell them about their sleazy actions a few years back (journalist intimidation, "god mode", etc.). I now have an up to date example to add. Thanks, Uber!
Steeeve 10y ago
Surprise. If you have an AT&T Samsung phone you can't uninstall it. The best you can do is go into Application Settings and Disable it. And then make sure you answer the two confirmation dialogs correctly for it to actually get disabled. And guess what? It's already running. Even if you haven't used the app any time recently.

greggman 10y ago

> Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot. This makes no sense to me. I tell them the pickup point so they don't need to know where I am since I already told them where I want to be picked up. Conversely I found it very frustrating they didn't (used to?) take destination into account. Example: I want to go south. They should arguably prefer drivers that are north of me. Instead I'm just guessing they just ping all drivers within some range. Some of those drivers are south of me. In a city like SF that can end up adding 5-10 minutes to the wait because they may have to go 3-6 long blocks around to get north of me so they can go south AND so they can pick me up on the south bound side of the road. It requires no GPS data from me to know that. It only requires that I enter where I want to be picked up and where I want to go. I suppose it's possible I'm waiting on the north bound side even if I want to go south. Maybe they could ask "we'll pick you up on the south bound side. Ok?" or something to that effect.

dcosson 10y ago
I think there's a lot of variance between people, and it's largely a matter of preference. Some people are happy to walk a block or two in order to make the most efficient trip depending on where the driver is approaching from and where they're going, and some people just want to plop it down and not think about it and have the company/driver figure out how to come exactly to them and figure out which way to go.
- aithoughts 10y ago
  I always feel like an oddball for calling my driver to make it more convenient for him (and faster for me) to pick me up. I usually Lyft line it though, so it's just a time boost (price is the same either way).

0xmohit 10y ago

I wrote to Uber a week back or so regarding this and this how they responded: My name is Pratik from Uber support, I hope you doing well ! Sorry to hear about about your experience.. I completely understand that this wasn't the experience you expect with Uber. We are constantly working to improve the Uber experience and your input is crucial to doing so. I’ll pass this along to the appropriate team. Thanks again! ---- There wasn't a response upon posting a comment to their blog regarding the same.

osi 10y ago
That's the bullshit response they give you to anything that isn't solvable with a ride credit.

foxhop 10y ago

Ethics. I'm not sure when ethics will matter again. We almost need a movement from startups that promise certain ethics. It would be a refreshing change.

bkmrkr 10y ago

And I'm switching to Lyft

dman 10y ago

Just lost me as a customer.

stevenhubertron 10y ago
Me as well. A step to far for my liking.

intrasight 10y ago

Just uninstall the app after you get your ride, and reinstall it next time you need it.

jungc 10y ago

Uber also charges significantly different prices between users. My friends and I did a test and each time, I keep getting charged at least $6 more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMm4ehc7oCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMm4ehc7oCw

xapata 10y ago
That's clever of them. Perhaps your elasticity of demand is lower.
- jungc 10y ago
  I was a huge fan until now. I'm really disappointed that they pick and choose who they think should pay more for the same ride.
  - xapata 10y ago
    I'm not. It's called "price discrimination" and if you don't do that at your business, you should. Whenever you hear a fun story about enterprise pricing, that's what it's talking about. Mobile phones make it more specific.

myrandomcomment 10y ago

Set to Never. Hum, I think I will give Lyft a try now. Never bothered to before.

trengrj 10y ago

How to delete your Uber account: https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a

Bahamut 10y ago

I noticed this in the past two weeks - as a result, if I use Uber, I toggle it on, and afterwards I turn it off. This is pretty crappy, I don't need an app punishing my battery by default just so they can collect more data. It really makes me think twice about sticking with Uber.

radialbrain 10y ago

Great reason to use their Web app instead of the native one - same functionality, and no such worries.

boulos 10y ago

A ha! This thread has reminded me to check whether Background App Refresh might block this. Apple's iOS Developer Docs seem to strongly imply that's the case [1]: > Important: A user can explicitly disable background capabilities for any app. If a user disables Background App Refresh in the Settings app—either globally for all apps or for your app in particular—your app is prevented from using any location services in the background. You can determine whether your app can process location updates in the background by checking the value of the backgroundRefreshStatus property of the UIApplication class. Time to go disable Background App Refresh for the Uber app and leave location as "Always". Edit: Yep! Disabled Background App Refresh and verified after a bit that the little "Some app is using your location" icon went away. Spread the word (and please Uber Engineering, don't try to stop us...) [1] https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/LocationAwarenessPG/CoreLocation/CoreLocation.html https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Us...

newscracker 10y ago
Thanks for this workaround, the description and the link. As disturbing as it is that Uber is subjecting paying customers to such despicable treatment, I'm glad to know that there is an easier workaround (for iOS users) than turning on and off the location services permission before and after each ride to control this! I don't have Background Refresh on at all (for any apps) since I find it draining the battery a lot for very little practical benefit for my usage.
prashnts 10y ago
Weird, this probably did/does not work for me. I had Background App Refresh for Uber and several other apps off for a long time, and I was presented with the notification that "Uber is using your location in background" yesterday. I did not use Uber yesterday.

MrGando 10y ago

I'm not sharing my location with Uber anymore on my iPhone App. Pretty simple.

nikcub 10y ago

re: Uber's reasoning one thing to keep in mind: this is the last opt-in user privacy hurdle for Uber. From here, any change Uber or an acquirer make doesn't alert or ask users. always-on location tracking is ring0 of personal privacy. They can remove that 5 minute monitoring window any time with an app update. Question isn't 'do I trust what Uber say to justify this change', but 'will I trust Uber to protect my privacy and security forever'

dcosson 10y ago

Am I the only one who thinks this is actually a very small amount of additional data to give up, and don't mind doing it? I'm willing to accept there's a small chance it might make the service a little better for me. They already know exactly where I came from and where I'm going, what could I possibly do in the 5 minutes after getting dropped off that would reveal significantly more information?

beefield 10y ago

Just wondering, are there virtualization/sandboxing apps/solutions that would let me create full emulated mobile environments into my phone and control all the sensor data that the environment is seeing?

0xmohit 10y ago
Another possibility is to keep a dedicated phone for Uber. Turn it on only when needed. Not sure how practical it would be, though.

jayajay 10y ago

"Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after the trip ends, including when the app is in the background" -- Uber. Is this legally gray, or am I paranoid? Not-scary Interpretation 1: Uber collects location data from t_0 to t_1 regardless of whether or not the app is in the background. Scary Interpretation 2: Uber collects location data from t_0 to t_1 and when the app is in the background. I'm surprised they didn't start doing this 4 years ago. Location data is really fucking good data to have on people, which is why I would rather not be giving it away willynilly. Additionally, Uber's service is one of the few services where getting this data can be justified and seems less creepy.

dmVI 10y ago

Quick check on my iPhone shows that it allows for (and is set to) "While Using the App" for location access settings. Running latest iOS release.

Animats 10y ago

Won't this drain the battery, with Uber's app running in background?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

julochrobak 10y ago

The situation is getting serious in general. There are many many apps that people use daily. How can one find out what data is being collected per application? It would be really nice to a have a web site where the community (technical people who can inspect the apps) could maintain this information per application and a user could see a simple green/red bullets and decide whether the app is worth it or not. Really, really high level, designed for end-user (non-technical).

ptx 10y ago
F-Droid shows a list of antifeatures[0] along with the description of each application. Here is one example with the "tracking antifeature": https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=at.tomtasche.reader https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=at.tomtasche.rea... [0] https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeatures https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeatures

oulipo 10y ago

Privacy-by-design now is more important than ever, this is why we build on this with https://snips.ai https://snips.ai

bad_user 10y ago

I actually noticed this - iOS has this nice feature of giving warnings like "Uber has been tracking your location", which was a WTF moment for me because I haven't used Uber that day at all. So in response I've cut its location access completely. I've also had a similar experience with Waze. WTF are these apps doing with my location while I'm not using them? Btw, for all the badmouthing I've given Apple and iOS over the years, this is one feature of iOS that I like. But I would have preferred the option to force location tracking only while using the app.

jfoldager 10y ago
I was going to say that you can choose to only allow access to your location while using the app, but then I checked in iOS. Some apps only have the choice between always and never. Is it up to the developer to remove/put in the option "While Using the App"?

gandutraveler 10y ago

I think they are doing this also to stop riders/drivers who game Uber. Riders walking patterns post-ride can be also used for predicting return pickup locations for concerts etc.

sdoering 10y ago

I am asking myself, if this could mean, we can "kill" Uber in Germany for good. Our data protection laws state, that you are only allowed to track the necessary data to provide the service. Tracking users after the use a service is imho not really encompassing the spirit of the law. Surely Uber lawyers could state that this is necessary information for making the service better for the user - like always. Non the less - one more reason not to ever use a service provided by this company.

PMan74 10y ago
Not just Germany, I'm pretty sure this is an EU wide directive. For sure it's the it works in Ireland (where thankfully Uber has not had any success). So Uber must have some view on why this does not contravene that directive, I doubt they have not considered it.

TuringNYC 10y ago

Putting aside all the other arguments regarding privacy, ethics, etc, I have a more acute issue: battery life. I allow almost no app "Always Using" privileges on location because of battery drain. I saw this update on Uber yesterday and now i've had to literally turn on and off Location services altogether when using/not-using Uber to prevent potential battery drain. Over the weekend, now I need to run a test to see how Uber performs on the "24 hr Battery Usage" stats with Location always on. That is a lot of work for a retail device, but I'm also so dependent on Uber now (gave up having a car!)...

DavidWanjiru 10y ago

According to the permissions request dialogue, "...We [want to collect your data even after you're dropped off] to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service and to enhance safety..." I don't buy any of it. Here's why: IMPROVE DROP-OFFS: The most improved drop-off that Uber can deliver is the one I, the passenger, gives them, either verbally to the driver, via GPS by them noting the point where I was dropped off, or via GPS by me entering my destination location. Normally, I ask to be dropped off where it's most convenient for me, and the most convenient for me is the best drop-off experience possible. Even if after being dropped off, I go to a final destination for which Uber reckons a better drop-off point than the one I chose exists, it's not for Uber to say, based on where I am going, what my best drop off point is. That's for me, the customer, to say. Since when does a cab tell you where to drop you off? Unless I don't know where I am going, in which case Uber already knows what the best drop off point is, and has no need to further improve it. IMPROVE PICKUPS. Presumably, the pickup will be improved based on historical location data, which tells them, this guy actually goes/lives/drinks/et here, something we know coz we tracked him last time he used Uber. Again, when I board a cab, I go to the point of most convenience for me. I'd probably have a cab come right to my bedroom door inside my house if it were possible, but since it's not, I choose the next best possible point, which is normally the same place they dropped me off at if they're the ones who brought me here. Same argument applies: unless I'm a stranger, my choice of pickup point is the best pickup point experience possible, and needs no further improvement. If based on where I'm coming from, Uber reckon there's a better pickup point, it's not for them to say. They're a cab. A cab comes get you where you want it to come get you, the location of your bedroom door and other laws and issues permitting. CUSTOMER SERVICE: This sounds tenuous. Nothing that I can think of that can be termed as good customer service from a cab company would be improved by tracking my movement after the cab has dropped me off. Some good customer service issues have nothing to do with my location, and the two that do are the ones I've discussed above. ENHANCE SAFETY. Again, tenuous without more explanation. How does knowing where I go after you drop me off enhance safety either for myself or the driver? I've seen a comment from some who says they work at Uber saying that this helps to figure out where the pick up spots for each address are, that a large building may have multiple points where people get picked up or dropped off. Which sounds reasonable, until you realize that the point that I got dropped off is the best one for me, which is why I chose it, and you, Uber, already know that because you've just dropped me off. Tracking me AFTER dropping me off doesn't make your knowledge of my best drop off more accurate, it makes it less accurate since I'm moving further and further away from the best drop off point as you continue to track me.

buro9 10y ago

For Uber and UberEats I now manually manage these in Android (which I do for a few other apps I have lower trust for). Which means I shut off all permissions between uses, and I block all notifications. I grant Location, only as needed to get a driver or place an order. Once I'm in the car, I turn airplane mode on, deny all permissions and notifications, and I reboot the phone. Isn't it crazy that this is where we are now. Invasive tracking has become so normal that I have to manage the access an app has in such a tightly constrained way. I'm starting to think a 2nd device that I leave turned off 99% of the time would be an easier way to sandbox apps I don't trust.

skeptic2718 10y ago
No taxis in your area? Maybe a central phone number you can call to hail one? Why Uber and all this trouble?
- SixSigma 10y ago
  My guess is because Uber is subsidising the ride and providing convenient bill paying options.
- buro9 10y ago
  I'm in London, and public transport is good enough for most journeys, and I loathe black cabs far more than I feel anything (except distrust) about Uber. Uber works wherever I am in London, it's cheap enough (realistic compared to black cabs). It's good enough, but not good enough that I'm fine with their various invasive activities. One not mentioned elsewhere is how they use both rider and driver mobiles as a kind of distributed cache/database. Which is the thing that started me off on "kill the background process", initially to spare my own data and battery.
pawadu 10y ago
Have you tested any automation apps for Android like Tasker [1] and Automate [2] for doing all this automagically? [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.android.taskerm https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.llamalab.automate https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.llamalab.a...

lerpa 10y ago

"Uber now discloses it does this"

reacharavindh 10y ago

I voted with my wallet and deleted Uber from my phone. My little contribution to the world. And wrote a message to my friends that I did so, and why they should consider it.

mwexler 10y ago

I despise apps that do "Always" or "Never" for Location Tracking. It's really reflective of the larger issue of control of data, but this is particularly galling when the app hasn't given you an option nor a good reason for "Always" tracking. I'm always surprised when each iOS update continues _allowing the app to define available choices_ instead of giving the consumer the "While Using" option for any app requesting location.

robbiemitchell 10y ago
Part of this is due to limitations in how iOS communicates this to users. "Always" can refer to either (1) always-on GPS, or (2) Bluetooth, which will ping app-owned beacons. The Bluetooth option is significantly narrower in scope, but uses the same dialog as the GPS. I worked for a company that relied on Bluebooth beacons to provide a critical app experience (notifications before app itself is opened), so the app blocked the login screen until the Bluetooth-driven "Always" location authorization was granted. It was a headache explaining to users.

mikebay 10y ago

Every "accidentally" tracking situations are always noted by normal user. How it's possible that every privacy breach need so much media attention before it's "fixed"?

imgabe 10y ago

Uber is somehow ridiculously bad with giving directions. Despite manually entering the address for a number of places, Uber insists on directing drivers into unmarked alleys instead of onto the street outside. You know, the actual street that's named in the freaking address. Instead of invading their customers' privacy they could start by just using the information they've been given.

fsavard 10y ago

There was an episode of the american version of the "modern Sherlock Holmes" TV series, "Elementary", where the plot revolved around a company akin to Uber (called Zooss in the show). It was particularly illustrative of how tempting it can be for internal employees to abuse that type of data. Among other things Sherlock was able to requisition a large fraction of the company GPS tracking data for his murder investigation. As a side effect he was able to figure out who was having an affair, who was going for an interview at a competitor's company, etc. 5 minutes after drop-off is quite enough to uncover where you meant to _really_ go if you gave a close-by address, in these scenarios. That's pretty much what the OP meant with "So your secret rendezvous may not be so secret" but it's particularly poignant in a TV show.

cOgnaut 10y ago

Please forgive my ignorance, but do most hackers leave their phone's GPS antenna turned on most of the time? And do most hackers update all their apps automatically? I generally do a "broad" update once or twice a year. And I update specific apps as needed (or desired). I would have assumed most hackers would do these kinds of things. It's like putting a tape "lid" over your webcam and only taking it off when you want to use it. Isn't it?