18 ms·

The new MacBook Pro is kind of great for hackers

400 points by ageitgey 10y ago

melling 10y ago
Personally, I've been waiting a couple of years for Apple to drop the USB-C bomb. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9490224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9490224 The new USB-C iMacs ship in the spring. I'm not sure why PC's haven't started the transition. USB-C is a no-brainer.
- skrowl 10y ago
  You can't be serious in thinking PCs haven't started offering USB-C ports. Go to MicroCenter or Fry's and try to find a motherboard for a current-gen proc without USB-C.
  - duskwuff 10y ago
    Most modern motherboards have USB-C, but they treat it as a special case -- you typically get one or two USB-C ports at best, and the rest are type A. (Often, some of those are even USB2.)
    - ashark 10y ago
      Probably a chicken-egg thing. I, for one, don't have a single USB-C device at home. Zero. Nothing that can plug into a USB-C port without an adapter. No plans to buy anything that does, unless I'm forced to by computer/phone manufacturers. I would be... unenthusiastic about a motherboard that emphasized USB-C over other ports. Includes it, so I have the option to start transitioning? Sure. Work's similar. There are a couple USB-C Android phones floating around, but the other end of their cables is—drum roll—USB-A.
      - melling 10y ago
        I think that's my point. PC vendors are slow to change. Not to worry, 2017 will be the breakout year for usb-c. Several hundred million phones will ship with it: https://www.cnet.com/pictures/phones-with-usb-type-c/ https://www.cnet.com/pictures/phones-with-usb-type-c/ It'll be common on Dell's, HP's, etc. Get ready for your usb-c headphones: http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-offering-free-usb-c-35mm-headphone-adapter-all-bolt-buyers http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-offering-free-usb-c-35mm-h...
        toast0 10y ago
        PC vendors can't afford to tell users to throw away all of their accessories every time a sexier connector comes along. Some other vendor will include a ps/2 port or a parallel port or USB type A and if buyers want to keep using the stuff they have, they'll buy the new computer that has the ports they want. Apple can do whatever because if you buy the old model for better ports, you're still buying from them.
        melling 10y ago
        Absolutely no one said that they need to replace all their legacy ports. Adding a couple of the small USB-C ports to the front and back is all that's needed on desktops. On laptops, putting one on each side should be doable. A computer that you buy today will last 7-10 years. I guarantee that there will be lots of USB-C devices in 3 years.
    - zokier 10y ago
      That has always been the case with PC USB ports, when a new standard is introduced then PCs adapt it gradually.
      - bitwize 10y ago
        ... Until Apple adopts it at which point it becomes a standard feature. Apple is the driver for innovation in the PC industry. Not just their own, but industry standards as well.
    - moolcool 10y ago
      How many USB C devices do you have? What kind of cable do your keyboard and mouse use? Your thumb drives?
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      Probably because it is still a special case. I have exactly 0 USB-C devices and none of my stuff is old.
      - Baeocystin 10y ago
        Same here. After giving it quite a bit of thought, the only project of mine that could foreseeably benefit from USB C is the little peltier minifridge I keep a few cans of soda in, currently running off of a USB 3 connection, which isn't quiiiite enough power to keep things as cold as I'd like. tl;dr- I'm in no hurry for a new port standard.
    - mikepurvis 10y ago
      Which is exactly what this generation MBP should have done— maintained 2 conventional USB ports and the HDMI port, and then included two new USB-C ports. That would have been a far better and gentler transition.
- popcorncolonel 10y ago
  I'm ready for Microsoft to start using USB-C for their Surface lineup.
jrheard 10y ago
I bought a new 13" MBP with touchbar and I'm returning it on Monday. I don't like the keyboard and I _really_ don't like the touch bar, and I seem to only get about 3 hours of battery life. I'm going to stick with my early 2014 MacBook Air until Apple figures their stuff out.
- chmars 10y ago
  The smaller battery is disappointing. Yep, the CPU uses less power but that only counts if your MBP is more or less idle. In the end, footprint matters and not thickness … Apple abandoned too much battery capacity IMHO.
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    The non-TB version is nice with a lower power CPU and a higher capacity battery, BUT only has 2 ports instead of 4, which is nothing short of absurd. They really screwed up on this front IMO.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - vidoc 10y ago
      Hell yeah! I sincerely regard those 2 ports on the cheaper model simply as hardware crippling. Much like AV manufacturers punish you by giving you less audio/hdmi ports if you go for their entry models.
    - sliken 10y ago
      What's the use case for needing 3 USB? Wherever you sit normally (home or work) just get a usb hub/dock and use the single connection to the laptop for keyboard, mouse, charging, and driving a monitor. When out and about, when do you need 3? Can't ever recall seeing someone at a coffee shop, conference, etc needing 3 USBs.
      - p10_user 10y ago
jsjohnst 10y ago
Finally somebody writing a realistic post about the USB-C port situation! So much short sighted whining when this really is a great step forward.
- gurkendoktor 10y ago
  Probably because OP has an Android phone. I'd honestly love to use my laptop's Ethernet dongle with my iPad or iPhone, but that won't happen. Apple has just recently doubled down on Lightning with the Apple TV Remote, the iPhone 7 headphones and the new Magic Trackpad/Mouse/Keyboard trio. For iPad accessories, they've even introduced the all-new Smart Connector instead of a USB-C port on the side of the iPad.
  - Bud 10y ago
    A USB-C port would not fit on the side of the iPad. So, not really an option.
  - jsjohnst 10y ago
    Check this out... NooQee USB Type C Adapter to Lightning 8-Pin 2-Pack [0] NooQee Lightning 8-Pin to USB Type C Adapter 2-Pack [1] [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M340K3B/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M340K3B/ [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K496YTC/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K496YTC/
chmars 10y ago
> The new charging block that comes with the MBP looks exactly the same as any traditional MBP charger Actually not, the convenient little 'arms' for the cord are missing. And the cord itself is rather stiff and not very flexible … and there's no green / red charging status light either. It's OK as a USB-C charger but it looks and feels different from a traditional MBP charger.
- popcorncolonel 10y ago
  > there's no green / red charging status light either. That really sucks.
- victorvation 10y ago
  The "arms" on MagSafe adapters are actually bad for the cable - wrapping it around them puts undue stress on the cable, which causes them to fray faster. And a stiff/inflexible cable should also prevent it from fraying. Seems like Apple took an proprietary, easily-damaged charging cable and replaced it with a standard, less easy to damage one. The charging indicator light is a definite loss, though.
  - kobayashi 10y ago
    As someone who took good care of my MacBook charging adaptors and cables, I found them to be perfectly durable. Those arms are only problematic when one wraps the cable 'immediately', instead of giving an extra loop and then beginning the winding.
    - ant6n 10y ago
      Mbp chargers fall apart quickly. 'Taking good care' in this context sounds like 'you're holding it wrong'
      - kobayashi 10y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean
toyg 10y ago
TL; DR: "USB-C all the things" is great... if you use android phones. Author conveniently avoids mentioning that the charger is another usability step back (no more plastic hooks to keep cable tidy), or that those external USB-C batteries are not really powerful enough to give you anything but a handful of extra minutes, or that, er, Apple's own phone doesn't get any of these wonderful improvements. and of course... > You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters It's well-known that the current quality of USB-C cables and adapters is very random, to say the least, up to and including serious electrical damage. Interoperability is good, but it looks like Apple just introduced a new series of trade-offs that are sub-optimal. Regardless, to say that a laptop is great "for hackers" because it has USB (A,B,C, whatever) ports is just silly. I mean, you can't even change your hard drive here.
- dancek 10y ago
  Yes. The title could have been "USB Type-C is kind of great for hackers", but would that get the same amount of readers? Probably not. I think the next iPhone will have USB-C. It would make little sense for Apple to commit this heavily on the laptop side while keeping their proprietary connector in their phones.
lucideer 10y ago
This entire article is raving about a single, relatively small but important detail that Apple has been notoriously hostile towards and worst at up until now: cross-manufacturer port compatibility. So hostile that they went out of their way to find ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding on USB-B. Yes, it's a great feature, but giving Apple so much credit for introducing it is the ultimate irony.
- alainv 10y ago
  Agreed, and giving Apple this much credit for "look how well these work with my USB-C Android phone!" compounds the irony beautifully.
- scott_karana 10y ago
  > ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding on USB-B Care to explain? I'm not familiar :)
  - detaro 10y ago
    The EC organized a voluntary Memorandum of Understanding for mobile phone chargers, where the major phone companies stated their intent to standardize on a common phone charger. (depending on who you ask, to avoid the EU making a binding rule about it otherwise) Apple signed this too, but as we all know didn't actually add a micro-USB-B connector to their phones like everybody else, but just providing an adapter to USB, which was not forbidden, but arguably against the spirit of the memorandum. Citing wikipedia, Some observers, noting Apple's continued use of proprietary, non-micro USB charging ports on their smartphones, suggested Apple was not in compliance with the 2009 Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding. The European Commission however, confirmed that all MoU signatories, "have met their obligations under the MoU,"[15] stating specifically, "Concerning Apple's previous and present proprietary connectors and their compatibility with the agreement, the MoU allows for the use of an adaptor without prescribing the conditions for its provision" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
santaclaus 10y ago
> You can even charge your MBP and phone together from one of those generic portable USB-C backup batteries That is kind of cool -- but how many batteries is it going to take, in practice, to juice up a MBP from empty?
- lobster_johnson 10y ago
  I don't know the specs of the new MBPs, but my mid-2015 MBP's battery is 7530 mAh at full charge. You can get portable charger batteries that are much more than that these days; this one [1] is 26,800 mAh, which in theory could charge my MBP 3.5 times. In practice, less than that, but still probably at least two full charges. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh-Recharged/dp/B01LRQDAEI https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh-Re...
  - dancek 10y ago
    You can't directly compare mAh values, as they're an unit of electric charge. The amount of energy depends on voltage, too. Power bank manufacturers are basically running a marketing scam; the batteries they sell have 3.7V while USB uses 5V. What's more, the MBP battery voltage is something around 12V. So the 26,800 mAh power bank has a capacity of 26,800 mAh * 3.7V = 99,600 mWh = 99.6 Wh of energy. Meanwhile, the 15" MBP has a 76 Wh battery. So theoretically you can do about 1.3 charges; realistically I'd say one full charge.
  - leoedin 10y ago
    A Macbook Pro (or indeed any laptop) battery operates at a voltage much higher than that of your phone or a powerbank. The actual power available from the battery (in Wh) can therefore only be compared with another battery's quoted capacity if the voltage is taken into account. A MBP battery might be a 11.1V battery, while a portable power bank capacity is almost certainly quoted as a summation of the capacities of the 3.7V cells inside. The capacity of the power bank must therefore be divided by 3 to give the equivalent capacity in mAh at 11.1V.
  - curried_haskell 10y ago
    That's not how electricity works.
KirinDave 10y ago
I don't get it. It's bad for hackers because of the tepid software updates, increasingly developer unfriendly application environment, lack of full touch in an age where every other manufacturer does that ad a standard, and awkward meshing with its own ecosystem. USB-C is pretty great, actually. Still pretty raw for the mainstream tech crowd, but it's not like that for tech-literate consumers.
- barbs 10y ago
  Yeah, I think this article has got me more excited for USB-C than the new MacBook Pro
- cillian64 10y ago
  Since when do hackers want touch-screens on their laptops? I feel like that's pretty much the least hacker-y feature a laptop can have.
  - wsgeorge 10y ago
    I only speak for myself when I say it's something I would love to have at my disposal. Seeing my colleague intuitively reach out to the screen to use the Android Virtual Device when we're discussing something convinced me it was actually a nice thing to have.
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      Testing touch UI design with a mouse pointer is futility embodied.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    Mobile and web are touch native now. It's fantastic for mobile developers to be able to have a similar input method for testing as use. I'm not sure what makes touch not poweruser and "hacker" friendly, but it's not the 80s anymore. Most of us have significant portions of our workload on the web and the web is, by and large, an extremely touch-friendly medium.
- deleted 10y ago
hellofunk 10y ago
It is discussed here that you could charge one laptop off another. Okay, cool. But what if they are both plugged in, then you attach them over USB? Do they both send a charge out, possibly cause one or both to fry? And what if you have multiple sources of charging plugged into the machine?
- prodmerc 10y ago
  I assume there's some form of auto negotiation? For what it's worth, I connected two laptops via USB, Nothing happened (though most likely they had built-in protection against that kind of bullshit)
- tajen 10y ago
  In the case you plug two Macbooks together and to the powerpoint, it charges the electricity back on the grid, which paves the way to infinite energy. More seriously the macbook can choose one source for its power.
- moolcool 10y ago
  I would imagine there's both software and hardware limits to how much current the charging circuit can accept, since having multiple chargers to one device is pretty likely with USB C. Like imagine hooking up two USB C displays which both act like chargers.
- ageitgey 10y ago
  Good questions! It's all in the USB Power Delivery [1] spec. The devices will do reasonable things. For example if you plug four power sources into the MacBook Pro (one in each port), it will take power only from the source that is supplying the highest power. Or if you plug a cell phone into a USB-C hub, it will suck as much power as it can to charge it's battery as quickly as possible. But if the hub needs more power temporarily to spin up a hard drive, the charging device can momentarily reduce it's power draw and then resume charging when the extra power is available again. [1] http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/ http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/
gnicholas 10y ago
> Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice! I've never even thought of bringing a phone wall charger with me when I have my laptop and laptop charger. Just plug the phone into the laptop if it needs charging.
- ecaroth 10y ago
  Which still requires the charging cord
  - gnicholas 10y ago
    With an iPhone, (or any other phone that doesn't charge over USB C), this is always the case.
- bdcravens 10y ago
  Currently have an early 2014 MBP, and I never take my charger to the café. My laptop has more than enough juice to last a couple of hours. Never really bought into idea that spending $6 bought me an office for half a day or more.
zokier 10y ago
Not saying anything about the new MBP, but I would be really wary of connecting a $2000+ device to a random no-name $9 car charger. Heck, I'm not sure if I'd even want to connect my smart phone to that.
rasz_pl 10y ago
Author forgot to mention new MBPs dont use USB-C, they use _special Apple variant_ of USB-C. Variant that doesnt work with ordinary dongles, from hdmi dongles producing flickering mess to USB 2.0 dongles _silently corrupting files_ from pendrives.
- AJ007 10y ago
  Not sure why your comment was down voted - http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/ http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-th...
  - rasz_pl 10y ago
    Thats one of the ways to cope with cognitive dissonance. Its obviously slander and trolling when someone says something bad about your multi $thousand purchase. 2016 MBP corrupting files _silently_ when using third party dongle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCvEzqDq8U&t=76m10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCvEzqDq8U&t=76m10s
  - floatboth 10y ago
    Thunderbolt 3 is not a "special Apple variant". Most new high-end laptops these days have Thunderbolt 3. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=14&field_company_nid=All&field_prod_os_value_many_to_one=All&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=All https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=14&field_comp...
- curried_haskell 10y ago
  Let's not forget not properly shielding and some USB 3 devices killing WiFi with interference.
satysin 10y ago
USB-C is awesome. It is the future and in some ways it is good Apple are being the way they are. But... I wish Apple would put USB-C in the iDevices (honestly why does the iPhone and iPad use Lightning when USB-C exists??). It is annoying that I can ditch all my cables except that one fucking extra Apple cable.
- jws 10y ago
  Time will tell, but I wonder if reliability will be the issue. USB-C has 24 contacts crammed in there. That's a lot of tiny parts for something that gets manhandled and lint packed as much as a phone charger connection. If I was on the hook to warranty replace $600 devices when the internal connector gets ruined I might take my time jumping on board too.
  - satysin 10y ago
    It isn't like Lightning is super reliable. I have had many official cables fall apart within a year of normal business travel and at least one port on an iPhone 6 fail most likely due to something getting in the port (although Apple never stated that obviously). I doubt USB-C is that much worse than Lightning. Even if it is say 10% less reliable as a cable it would still be much better to have a USB-C port simply because you are more likely to have a USB-C cable if everything else uses it.
    - grzm 10y ago
      at least one port on an iPhone 6 fail most likely due to something getting in the port I've found a wooden toothpick works wonderfully to clear out accumulated pocket lint from the port every 6 months or so.
      - satysin 10y ago
        Sadly nothing fixed it and I tried a dozen things. Totally anecdotal but I have had a Nexus 6P for over a year now and no issues with the USB-C port so, for me, it is just as durable so far as Lightning :)
bdcravens 10y ago
> Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice! Unless you have the two most common phones (Apple or Samsung), or any of the many others that don't yet support USB-C.
Odenwaelder 10y ago
What happens if you plug the monitor into your Nexus 6P? Do you get a regular Desktop?
- majewsky 10y ago
  Only if it runs RemixOS or Ubuntu Touch, I guess.
- ageitgey 10y ago
  Sadly the Nexus 6P doesn't support any kind of direct video-out (USB-C, HDMI or otherwise). It came out before the USB-C screen mirroring specs were finalized. All you can do is chromecast over the network. But hopefully by this time next year, new cell phones will generally support screen mirroring over USB-C. Some phones (like the LG G5 [1]) already support it. [1] http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2016/06/connect-your-lg-g5-to-usb-c-monitors-for-mirroring-charging-in-one-cable/ http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2016/06/connect-your-lg-g5-t...
akhilcacharya 10y ago
My biggest problem is that there are only 4, whereas I use 5 on a daily basis with my MBPr.
- freehunter 10y ago
  On the previous version there were only two, so I guess you're that much closer to your 5 devices you need.
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    5 ports total - magsafe, 1 thunderbolt, 2 USB and HDMI are plugged in right now.
- majewsky 10y ago
  USB hubs are a thing.
ce4 10y ago
USB-C charging looks great on paper but disappoints when devices don't charge. Your device may support a subset of the different USB charging protocols: * USB 1.1 lo power: 5V/100mA * USB 2.0 hi power: 5V/500mA * USB 3.0: 5V/900mA * USB BC (battery charging): 5V/1.5A * USB quickcharge 1.0/2.0/3.0, proprietary Qualcomm standard * USB PD (power delivery) 5 profiles offering up to 100W (5/12/20V @ 1.5/2/3/5A) MacBooks also use a nonstandard 15V USB-PD profile. Unrelated to the MacBook, but problems i see with USB-C are: Chargers may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device. Second and most problematic: The MacBook is a good citizen here, but many laptops (HP business series, Dell XPS series) only support USB-C PD with profile 4&5 (20V/3A+). This rules out the car dongle as well as cheap USB power banks. The connector is always the same, the customer cannot deduce charger/device compatibility. The experience will suck. Edit: typos/formatting
- johansch 10y ago
  > Charger may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device. Who would ever expect Apple to do something like that? Oh wait...
  - BHSPitMonkey 10y ago
    That argument looks like FUD to me. That would be a surefire way to get shunned by the USB-IF and be forbidden from using official USB identification on your products.
    - SyneRyder 10y ago
      Apple is already doing something similar though on the new MacBook Pro, there is a software block on Thunderbolt 3 devices that haven't also been "macOS certified" by Apple: https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/tb3-enabler-enable-unsupported-thunderbolt-3-devices-hack-macbook-pro/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/tb3-enabler-enable-unsupporte...
- hollander 10y ago
carsongross 10y ago
After a week with a 13 inch, what I've mainly noticed is how physically unwelcoming it is: The edges are very sharp, and the air vents on the bottom are right where you grab the laptop to pick it up, which gives it a knife-like feel. Also, by expanding the track pad far beyond it's useful size, there is now no gap between it and the space key. I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now. The arrow keys are now a continuous run of keys with no way to orient quickly like previously (where the side arrows were slightly smaller and made it obvious where the up key was without looking.) . Finally, the keyboard action is very short, as you would expect with such a thin laptop. I do most of my work with an external keyboard and monitor, so it isn't that big a deal to me, but I can see it being hard on people who use their laptop exclusively.
- rifung 10y ago
  > I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now This is surprising and disappointing. I really enjoyed using Apple's touchpads with tap to click because their accidental press recognition was good enough that I never really worried about this. I typically had to turn tap to click off when using Linux because I would randomly click while typing. I wonder why they haven't been able to get it to work as well on the new touchpad
  - Bud 10y ago
    Just speculating here, but this is precisely the sort of thing Apple generally fine-tunes and fixes with software updates in very short order. I would expect it will be so this time, too.
  - kqr 10y ago
    > I typically had to turn tap to click off when using Linux because I would randomly click while typing. Palm detection should typically be tweaked through various driver parameters.
    - 10y ago
guelo 10y ago
Be careful with the idea that the charger is just a regular USB-C charger. These laptops will draw 3-4 amps at 20 volts. Most phone chargers are designed for 1-3amps at 5 volts, so they would only provide a trickle of charge to these laptops. Older chargers (and computers ports!) can be damaged by these higher power draws. Also, the USB-C cable the Macs come with is rated up to a hefty 5 amps. Some of the cheap phone cables out there could actually pose a fire danger if they were to handle 5 amps.
- Waterluvian 10y ago
  Are the MacBook USB-C ports special in some way that makes them USB-C and also a non-standard charger port? If not, then they must be compliant USB-C ports and therefore would not be supplying an incorrect voltage. As far as I understand the fundamentals of electricity, current doesn't matter. A 5v USB power source that can supply 100 amps would still only supply whatever the device was designed to draw when charging. But all of that is moot if the MacBook ports are "special" USB-C ports and somehow they negotiate a voltage higher than 5V.
  - snuxoll 10y ago
    The USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) spec allows devices to negotiate up to 20V - the key word, however being "negotiate", means this is no different than how older USB charging solutions work (start at 5V+100mA, negotiate to whatever the client device can handle and what the host will allow). I'm always amused by how uninformed many people are about USB and power supply, if devices can't negotiate something that works for both ends they just stop. It's a shitty situation to be in if your device fails to charge, but devices that follow the USB-IF rules will never draw more current than the power source can supply, and the power source will never supply more than the device has requested.
    - Waterluvian 10y ago
      So if I plug a dumb device into it that only makes electrical contact, it won't make that negotiation. So, so long as Apple's MacBook USB charger is compliant, it won't destroy anything USB that I plug into it, so long as those devices are also compliant. Right?
phaedryx 10y ago
hackers -> people who use Apple laptops and android phones?
- scarlac 10y ago
  I think that's a pretty common setup for many hackers, yes. Some only buy it for the hardware, but I see plenty using macOS as well.
  - egh5oon 10y ago
    For the HN definition of hackers, maybe.
josephhainline 10y ago
Sounds useful for the very few macOS or iOS developers who happen to have Android phones.
Pulce 10y ago
I am happy Steve Jobs has died, he was so stupid...
geophile 10y ago
So USB-C sounds great. Too bad the laptop offering it has a crippled keyboard.
izacus 10y ago
While we're at it... I just got my 15" MBP and I can't get pass the fact that the keyboard backlight is noticably uneven - e.g. the clover logo in Command buttons isn't fully lit, "alt" text on option etc. Is anyone else seeing this or is it a faulty unit?
- pstadler 10y ago
  Same here. Also my down arrow is really loud on release. Scheduled an appointment with Apple to sort these issues out. When I look at the black screen from a wide angle (either from left or right) the surface looks uneven. This doesn't have any impact on picture quality though. Does somebody know whether this is due to the anti-glare coating? Otherwise I'm really happy with my non-Touch Bar 13" model (i7, 16GB).
steeve 10y ago
I have an 13" since almost a week. I think it's great. 95% of my time is spent in iTerm/VSCode/XCode/Android Studio. Some remarks: - Keyboard, especially arrow keys, took me 2 days to get used to, but now it feels weird typing on a old macbook. I actually love it and prefer it now. - The thumb + touchpad thing mentioned elsewhere here was definitely a big problem in the first day or two. It isn't anymore (guess I got used to it? not sure because I didn't try to avoid it) - USB-C is freaking awesome. I bought an adapter with ethernet, HDMI, usb 3 and SD that actually replaces the 3 adapters I had to carry around. And because of UPD, I only have one cable to plug to the mac and everything is there including power. - I don't miss magsafe as much as I thought I would. Although I would happily buy an adapter if it is thin enough (some are coming). - Touchbar is actually pretty great, although it being a touch screen, the lack of touch feedback can be annoying at first. Pretty ESC is annoying at first, but I got used to it and don't mind it now. - Touchbar would be an _awesome_ medium to get notifications (such as long running terminal jobs etc...) - I didn't get any of the battery life issues people are talking about. Actually, I get 8-10 hours out of it easily (ie plug it at the end of the day because I forgot it was unplugged). - Thinner bezels around the screen makes it somehow look bigger (even though the visible area is the same size and the screen/lid itself is smaller). - HiDPi is freaking great. Finally I can use a 4k monitor smaller than 32" and still get retina display (1440p HiDPi and other intermediate resolutions up to native 3820x2160 are fully supported) - It is really thin (no thinner that a Macbook Air, but still). It's feels really great. - Actually, I just noticed that because it is thinner, my wrists don't get hurt by the edges like they used to (the exact opposite of what someone mentioned here).
- function_seven 10y ago
  Can you share what USB-C adapter you went with?
  - steeve 10y ago
    Sure: https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B01IQV5U68/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B01IQV5U68/ref=oh_aui_detai... Although don't use it for 4k, as it is only HDMI 1.4 (4k@30hz). I am not aware of hubs like this with HDMI 2.0 yet. I bought a USB Type C => DisplayPort adapter for the 4k monitor.
albertgao 10y ago
Sorry, the charger comes with Microsoft surface series has an additional USB port, so I can charge my phone and laptop at the same time. And I won't buy some so called stupid USB c monitor just for meet the needs of the new macbook. This article perfectly described how awful the dongles world looks like.
jwatte 10y ago
I need a GPU and as much RAM as possible to run VMs. The new MBP, with wimpy graphics and 16 GB of RAM, does worse than a Razer Blade (also USB C, has been out since early 2016)
vacri 10y ago
Most of the article seems to be "port compatibility between Apple laptops and Google phones", and doesn't work for those with Apple phones.
dman 10y ago
I have no idea how we got to the USB C connector mess. I thought one of the hard fought battles of the tech ecosystem was "if it fits, it will work". What is the rationale for using the same connector for incompatible use cases?
- TTPrograms 10y ago
  Yeah, this is going to be a nightmare for non-technical consumers. It's almost shockingly bad.
KKKKkkkk1 10y ago
Is there a technical reason why Apple does not provide a MagSafe-style USB-C cable with the new MBP? Is it pure carelessness?
- grzm 10y ago
  Looking at a USB-C plug compared to that of a MagSafe, I'm not sure they would have been able to come up with anything as well-designed as the MagSafe itself. Rather than make due with a more clunky design similar to the Griffin BreakSafe, I suspect they chose to omit it.
  - ssijak 10y ago
    You could do Griffin BreakSafe style on the charger side and not laptop side, so it would look nice.
    - grzm 10y ago
      it would look nice In your opinion, perhaps. I don't think the designers at Apple agree. If they did, I think we would see something similar to the BreakSafe from Apple.
spacehacker 10y ago
I am disappointed by the Touch Bar. It is such a small and dim screen and a lot of attention is required for interacting with it. There is no tactile feedback, so touch typing is impossible. QuickType and Emojis are useless for me. It might be a good accessibility feature, but QuickType is much too slow and the upward movement of the entire hand/arm interrupts the flow of typing. I think the Touch Bar is great for designers who can benefit from a 'general purpose touch/slider input device' (e.g. for color mixing, navigating timelines, parameter fine-tuning). It might also reduce cognitive load a bit since it reduces the need for memorizing keyboard shortcuts. On the other hand, users who are blessed with a good memory will probably not benefit very much in that regard because pressing a key combination is much quicker than scanning and touching the Touch Bar. The only attractive feature of the Touch Bar model really is Touch ID. If Apple would sell the Function Keys model with a Touch ID power button and one more USB port, I would happily buy it. But right now, I am a little bit confused and baffled by Apple's new MacBook Pro product line. I think I am going to wait another generation to see whether Apple gets back on track and whether the Touch Bar can stand the test of time.
- mememachine 10y ago
  I think apple is a little bit lost without steve
  - wyclif 10y ago
    Most amusing comment in this thread, but in all seriousness I think that's quite true.
- hjnilsson 10y ago
  The function keys were never used for anything in OSX, as the "culture" is to use key chords instead. So even if it's not used much, I think it's an improvement.
  - spacehacker 10y ago
    I use the function keys a lot for changing volume, screen/keyboard brightness, pausing/playing music. I also launch Terminal and Firefox to F3 and F4, I heavily make use of ESC for all kinds of things (VIM, closing UI dialogs) and I occasionally use the function keys for some shortcuts such as finding the next occurrence with F3 in Foxit Reader, F10 to compile, F7 to show the desktop, F6 to switch between Karabiner profiles. For me it would be quite a loss.
waspleg 10y ago
I read this as "fan boy with too much money replaces every peripheral he owns with USB-C; looks for ways to justify being an early adopter while showboating". Fuck given? 0.
sklivvz1971 10y ago
No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. I get it that prosumers like to think of themselves as "hackers", but ...that's just not how it works. Come on.
- rayiner 10y ago
  I think it's funny how signaling things like "expandable performance" and "deep key travel" get tied to being a hacker. The only thing you can upgrade even on an expandable laptop is memory and disk, which a hacker is probably maxing out to begin with. (Even expandable laptops are pretty limited by the chipsets these days in how much RAM they can handle). And given the high resale value of Macs, your typical Silicon Valley worker will probably spend more on lattes than on simply selling their Mac every couple of years and buying a new one.
  - pmontra 10y ago
    HP Zbook first gen here: I can also replace CPU and GPU. I didn't do it and never will do but it's in the user manual. I upgraded RAM and swapped the DVD with a 1 TB SSD. The HD is still in there, auto shutdown after 5 secs. I use it for storing large files I don't need on the SSD but could be handy to be online sometimes, like raw videos from my camera. I'd like to replace the keyboard with one without the number pad. Possible in theory but there is no part that fits on the market. The only 15" laptops without number pad at the time were the Mac and I think the XPS, which was overheating. Maybe the problem with the latter is solved now.
- milkytron 10y ago
  In my own (possibly and probably inaccurate) opinion, I feel as though "hackers" aren't the people who need professional gear to do professional (or daily) tasks. They're the ones who can make the most out of as little equipment as possible. "See that toaster over there? It's been reprogrammed to automatically deposit my cat's food every fourth hour and have it warm as well." "That 2009 dinosaur of a smartphone sitting in the corner? It's an IP surveillance camera." "That first generation Xbox, it's powering the zoom feature of the Hubble Telescope." That last one might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but my point is that something isn't great because it's the latest. Something is great because someone increased it's value after using it or created something of higher value than the equipment used to create it. > Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. To address this point... some might. But not all will. And I certainly think that fewer will than the generations before. I really hope USB-C will be as great as these companies say it will, but until then I'll happily use my different ports that work as they are expected to.
geoka9 10y ago
> You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters like this by the handful on Amazon for cents But beware of the really cheap ones, they can burn your "legacy" USB ports: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-...
Yabood 10y ago
I returned my MacBook Pro 15' earlier today. Here's why: * Graphics card glitches - I paid close to 4K so I don't have to deal with quality control issues. * Touchpad is just too large. I found myself resting my palm on it all the time, and sometimes (clicking) without realizing it. Also, if you like lying down and working (which I do sometimes because of a lower back problem) the size of the touchpad will make you work extra hard to avoid accidental clicks. * Had the machine for ~ 10 days, used the touch bar less than that. Definitely not worth the money. Hopefully in the future, they'll have the 15' option without it. * The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either. * Recovery mode has many issues with network connectivity. A few times, I had to tether/connect to my iPhone hotspot for it to go through. * Sharp edges everywhere. The specs are very underwhelming too, but I was willing to tolerate lower specs for higher build quality. I actually just picked up an XPS 15 9550 from Microcenter. Got the 2.6Ghz, 16GB (expandable to 32GB), 512GB SSD, 4K touchscreen for $1350 (an open box, new for $1499).
- yo-code-sucks 10y ago
  You're bitching about using a mac for windows work? Really, shut the fuck up.
- jaxondu 10y ago
  Great move. Keep hearing from forums, reddit small issues here and there for this first-gen notebook. Looks like many others are paying premium to Apple to be their beta testers. Really hope Apple release non-touch bar version in parallel for future refresh.
- jtl999 10y ago
  > * The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either. Also a problem on previous models. I was working on my own GPU switching solution but gave up due to lack of time and the fact most of my applications work just fine under OS X. I'd be interested doing the same with Debian or similar Linux though.
rufius 10y ago
I'll just go ahead and contradict the running opinion and say: I like my 2016 MacBook Pro 15". I've owned a few Macs and this one is my favorite. Despite my initial impressions, I really like the keyboard. I'm also quite happy with the trackpad which I've found to be excellent as usual and not picking up stray contact. The only place I'm not "ecstatic" or "pleased" is with the TouchBar - and to be clear, I'm not displeased. I just don't really notice it. It's there doing its thing and I'm using the laptop, doing my thing. Occasionally I need the escape key and tap where I'd expect the escape key to be and while I don't get the tactile feedback it works. All in all - the TouchBar is a net zero to me. I didn't lose anything by losing my Fn keys but I don't feel I gained anything with the TouchBar except TouchId which is nice. TL;DR: Overpriced? Definitely. Pleased with product? Yes. TouchBar? No strong feelings. Returning it? No.
- nicky0 10y ago
  Net zero only if you don't factor in the extra price you had to pay for it.
- dom96 10y ago
  I'm finding it really odd that people are praising the new keyboard. I must admit that I have only tested it in the Apple Store, but I find it terrible, the short travel feels really bad to me. Is this something that you just get used to?
  - rupertj 10y ago
    Bought my new MBP yesterday. I was expecting to have to get used to the keyboard, but was typing on it just fine straight away. Now I actually prefer the feel to my previous 2012 Air.
  - hjnilsson 10y ago
    As for as laptop keyboards, it's pretty great. The greater issue is with the palm rejection of the giant touchpad. That is considerably worse than before (when it was never a problem). This is something that can be solved with software though, so not too worried.
  - 10y ago
yandrypozo 10y ago
i didn't see the part that it's "great for hackers"
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
hobarrera 10y ago
The article goes on and on about fun new stuff that you can do (and I don't deny them). But we can't do the same old things we NEED to do, like keep using all our existing cables and devices (including mice!). Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation. Regarding the "it's the same plug as your phone": It's not! iPhones have lightning cable (ironically, their own phone!).
- wsgeorge 10y ago
  > Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation. This. Dropping all the old ports was a step too far, I think. It's forward looking, but it's an inconvenience today. I'm sure a smoother transition would've been more welcome.
outworlder 10y ago
Nearly half of the article was about USB-C. Guess what? MacBooks are not the only ones with that port. $900 laptops have them, and most have at least one USB-A port as well. Not sure what any of this has to do with hacking.
znpy 10y ago
On one hand, I must admit that I didn't consider all this. But quite franky, this post only makes me excited about USB-C and usb-c enabled monitors. I wonder how much power can a laptop draw from a monitor though.. I currently have a ThinkPad W530 with a 170W power adapter which literally is a brick (in both shape and weight). I wonder if a monitor could power a such-power-hungry beast).
fit2rule 10y ago
tl;dr: USB-C is awesome, because Android phones that use it are awesome. Oh, and Apple made a USB-C device, finally, too.
joelbondurant 10y ago
Computing appliances are not computers. Great for children tho.
Demcox 10y ago
"...we’re going to look back on this and wonder why everyone was so worked up." My reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncgoPKklVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncgoPKklVE
mpweiher 10y ago
Just got my 13" two days ago and very happy with it so far. I had a 13" before, got a 15" at work and my girlfriend has the 12". I was almost ready for a 12" myself, and am glad I waited. Although it is noticeably heavier than the 12", and not really objectively that much lighter than the previous versions, the new 13" has the same "just pick it up with one hand" feel that the 12" has. It is wonderful. My 2 year old daughter has watched me unlock it with my thumb and tries to do the same without succeeding :-) And she can't mess up the password input field either, because there is none. (She can get my iPad into a "reset" state in seconds that I have to then recover from backup. I still have no idea how she does it). I did have to remove the Siri button from the toucher because (a) it is too close to the delete key and (b) I just don't need Siri that often. The UI for that is pretty neat, by the way: the mouse is able to move into the touchbar, so you can just drag'n'drop into and out of it. Since I remap my modifiers anyway (caps-lock -> control, where god and Digital Equipment Corporation intended the control key to go), I had no problem mapping the now largely useless control key to escape, although I haven't had a problem with the soft escape key yet. Nice benefit: bringing up the force-quit panel is now very easy. I really like the USB-C so far, will be far fewer cables and power adapters on upcoming trips. While MagSafe was nice, I won't miss the always fraying cables, especially since they were permanently attached to the power brick, so frayed cable → new brick. I was surprised how quickly the TouchBar became unremarkable, though the fact that there is a single button to open a man-page for the currently typed command in Terminal is definitely kinda cool! Volume/brightness adjustments take a little more looking (for now), though the fact that you can scrub from the "key" without lifting despite that the control is elsewhere makes it pretty easy. And scrubbing media via the TouchBar is definitely way, way less fiddly than via on-screen controls. The keyboard looks much classier than my previous MBP's, and I prefer the feel. But then again, I seem to be weird when it comes to keyboards, for example I loved the Amiga 1000 keyboard and hated the big-travel, clicky/noisy keyboards on the original IBM PCs that everyone else still raves about. EDIT: 95% battery, watching youtube video, 7h+ remaining.
aq3cn 10y ago
This MacBook Pro has given me good reasons to learn to build a custom PC. I am okay dual booting or visualizing OS X in Linux or Windows. On the other hand, I am impressed how Asus, Dell and Razor has allowed use of external desktop top notch NVIDIA graphics card in their laptops along with USB C and RAID support while keeping system upgradable. http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth Thanks Apple.
kbumsik 10y ago
Hackers? Looks like hackers mean people who like gadgets in his post. They are NOT hackers at least. If hackers mean software/hardware engineer or someone who like programming, a laptop with only USB-C ports is a total disaster because hackers usually have to deal with legacy hardware/system.
aib 10y ago
Apparently the author has just discovered standards.
jasode 10y ago
>You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters like this by the handful on Amazon for cents: Buying a proper USB-C adapter is not trivial.[1] I read somewhere that Amazon subsequently removed a lot of bad listings/sellers but that doesn't mean a new batch of bad adapters are selling now 2016. >In a year or two when we all have junk drawers packed full of extra generic USB-C cables that cost nearly nothing, we’re going to look back on this and wonder why everyone was so worked up. Because Apple didn't synchronize the USB-C-is-the-future simultaneously across all new products. The brand new iPhone 7 is Lightning instead of USB-C. The brand new yet-to-be-released AirPods' recharging dock is Lightning instead of USB-C. That's what leads to the mob mocking Apple's product strategy requiring the clutter of dongles.[2] [1]http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/google-engineer-leaves-scathing-reviews-of-dodgy-usb-type-c-cables-on-amazon/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/google-engineer-leave... [2]https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works_apple/ https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works...

400 points by ageitgey 10y ago

Personally, I've been waiting a couple of years for Apple to drop the USB-C bomb. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9360128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9490224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9490224 The new USB-C iMacs ship in the spring. I'm not sure why PC's haven't started the transition. USB-C is a no-brainer.

skrowl 10y ago
You can't be serious in thinking PCs haven't started offering USB-C ports. Go to MicroCenter or Fry's and try to find a motherboard for a current-gen proc without USB-C.
- duskwuff 10y ago
  Most modern motherboards have USB-C, but they treat it as a special case -- you typically get one or two USB-C ports at best, and the rest are type A. (Often, some of those are even USB2.)
  - ashark 10y ago
    Probably a chicken-egg thing. I, for one, don't have a single USB-C device at home. Zero. Nothing that can plug into a USB-C port without an adapter. No plans to buy anything that does, unless I'm forced to by computer/phone manufacturers. I would be... unenthusiastic about a motherboard that emphasized USB-C over other ports. Includes it, so I have the option to start transitioning? Sure. Work's similar. There are a couple USB-C Android phones floating around, but the other end of their cables is—drum roll—USB-A.
    - melling 10y ago
      I think that's my point. PC vendors are slow to change. Not to worry, 2017 will be the breakout year for usb-c. Several hundred million phones will ship with it: https://www.cnet.com/pictures/phones-with-usb-type-c/ https://www.cnet.com/pictures/phones-with-usb-type-c/ It'll be common on Dell's, HP's, etc. Get ready for your usb-c headphones: http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-offering-free-usb-c-35mm-headphone-adapter-all-bolt-buyers http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-offering-free-usb-c-35mm-h...
      - toast0 10y ago
        PC vendors can't afford to tell users to throw away all of their accessories every time a sexier connector comes along. Some other vendor will include a ps/2 port or a parallel port or USB type A and if buyers want to keep using the stuff they have, they'll buy the new computer that has the ports they want. Apple can do whatever because if you buy the old model for better ports, you're still buying from them.
        melling 10y ago
        Absolutely no one said that they need to replace all their legacy ports. Adding a couple of the small USB-C ports to the front and back is all that's needed on desktops. On laptops, putting one on each side should be doable. A computer that you buy today will last 7-10 years. I guarantee that there will be lots of USB-C devices in 3 years.
  - zokier 10y ago
    That has always been the case with PC USB ports, when a new standard is introduced then PCs adapt it gradually.
    - bitwize 10y ago
      ... Until Apple adopts it at which point it becomes a standard feature. Apple is the driver for innovation in the PC industry. Not just their own, but industry standards as well.
  - moolcool 10y ago
    How many USB C devices do you have? What kind of cable do your keyboard and mouse use? Your thumb drives?
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    Probably because it is still a special case. I have exactly 0 USB-C devices and none of my stuff is old.
    - Baeocystin 10y ago
      Same here. After giving it quite a bit of thought, the only project of mine that could foreseeably benefit from USB C is the little peltier minifridge I keep a few cans of soda in, currently running off of a USB 3 connection, which isn't quiiiite enough power to keep things as cold as I'd like. tl;dr- I'm in no hurry for a new port standard.
  - mikepurvis 10y ago
    Which is exactly what this generation MBP should have done— maintained 2 conventional USB ports and the HDMI port, and then included two new USB-C ports. That would have been a far better and gentler transition.
popcorncolonel 10y ago
I'm ready for Microsoft to start using USB-C for their Surface lineup.

jrheard 10y ago

I bought a new 13" MBP with touchbar and I'm returning it on Monday. I don't like the keyboard and I _really_ don't like the touch bar, and I seem to only get about 3 hours of battery life. I'm going to stick with my early 2014 MacBook Air until Apple figures their stuff out.

chmars 10y ago
The smaller battery is disappointing. Yep, the CPU uses less power but that only counts if your MBP is more or less idle. In the end, footprint matters and not thickness … Apple abandoned too much battery capacity IMHO.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  The non-TB version is nice with a lower power CPU and a higher capacity battery, BUT only has 2 ports instead of 4, which is nothing short of absurd. They really screwed up on this front IMO.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - vidoc 10y ago
    Hell yeah! I sincerely regard those 2 ports on the cheaper model simply as hardware crippling. Much like AV manufacturers punish you by giving you less audio/hdmi ports if you go for their entry models.
  - sliken 10y ago
    What's the use case for needing 3 USB? Wherever you sit normally (home or work) just get a usb hub/dock and use the single connection to the laptop for keyboard, mouse, charging, and driving a monitor. When out and about, when do you need 3? Can't ever recall seeing someone at a coffee shop, conference, etc needing 3 USBs.
    - p10_user 10y ago

jsjohnst 10y ago

Finally somebody writing a realistic post about the USB-C port situation! So much short sighted whining when this really is a great step forward.

gurkendoktor 10y ago
Probably because OP has an Android phone. I'd honestly love to use my laptop's Ethernet dongle with my iPad or iPhone, but that won't happen. Apple has just recently doubled down on Lightning with the Apple TV Remote, the iPhone 7 headphones and the new Magic Trackpad/Mouse/Keyboard trio. For iPad accessories, they've even introduced the all-new Smart Connector instead of a USB-C port on the side of the iPad.
- Bud 10y ago
  A USB-C port would not fit on the side of the iPad. So, not really an option.
- jsjohnst 10y ago
  Check this out... NooQee USB Type C Adapter to Lightning 8-Pin 2-Pack [0] NooQee Lightning 8-Pin to USB Type C Adapter 2-Pack [1] [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M340K3B/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M340K3B/ [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K496YTC/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K496YTC/

chmars 10y ago

> The new charging block that comes with the MBP looks exactly the same as any traditional MBP charger Actually not, the convenient little 'arms' for the cord are missing. And the cord itself is rather stiff and not very flexible … and there's no green / red charging status light either. It's OK as a USB-C charger but it looks and feels different from a traditional MBP charger.

popcorncolonel 10y ago
> there's no green / red charging status light either. That really sucks.
victorvation 10y ago
The "arms" on MagSafe adapters are actually bad for the cable - wrapping it around them puts undue stress on the cable, which causes them to fray faster. And a stiff/inflexible cable should also prevent it from fraying. Seems like Apple took an proprietary, easily-damaged charging cable and replaced it with a standard, less easy to damage one. The charging indicator light is a definite loss, though.
- kobayashi 10y ago
  As someone who took good care of my MacBook charging adaptors and cables, I found them to be perfectly durable. Those arms are only problematic when one wraps the cable 'immediately', instead of giving an extra loop and then beginning the winding.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    Mbp chargers fall apart quickly. 'Taking good care' in this context sounds like 'you're holding it wrong'
    - kobayashi 10y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean

toyg 10y ago

TL; DR: "USB-C all the things" is great... if you use android phones. Author conveniently avoids mentioning that the charger is another usability step back (no more plastic hooks to keep cable tidy), or that those external USB-C batteries are not really powerful enough to give you anything but a handful of extra minutes, or that, er, Apple's own phone doesn't get any of these wonderful improvements. and of course... > You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters It's well-known that the current quality of USB-C cables and adapters is very random, to say the least, up to and including serious electrical damage. Interoperability is good, but it looks like Apple just introduced a new series of trade-offs that are sub-optimal. Regardless, to say that a laptop is great "for hackers" because it has USB (A,B,C, whatever) ports is just silly. I mean, you can't even change your hard drive here.

dancek 10y ago
Yes. The title could have been "USB Type-C is kind of great for hackers", but would that get the same amount of readers? Probably not. I think the next iPhone will have USB-C. It would make little sense for Apple to commit this heavily on the laptop side while keeping their proprietary connector in their phones.

lucideer 10y ago

This entire article is raving about a single, relatively small but important detail that Apple has been notoriously hostile towards and worst at up until now: cross-manufacturer port compatibility. So hostile that they went out of their way to find ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding on USB-B. Yes, it's a great feature, but giving Apple so much credit for introducing it is the ultimate irony.

alainv 10y ago
Agreed, and giving Apple this much credit for "look how well these work with my USB-C Android phone!" compounds the irony beautifully.
scott_karana 10y ago
> ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding on USB-B Care to explain? I'm not familiar :)
- detaro 10y ago
  The EC organized a voluntary Memorandum of Understanding for mobile phone chargers, where the major phone companies stated their intent to standardize on a common phone charger. (depending on who you ask, to avoid the EU making a binding rule about it otherwise) Apple signed this too, but as we all know didn't actually add a micro-USB-B connector to their phones like everybody else, but just providing an adapter to USB, which was not forbidden, but arguably against the spirit of the memorandum. Citing wikipedia, Some observers, noting Apple's continued use of proprietary, non-micro USB charging ports on their smartphones, suggested Apple was not in compliance with the 2009 Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding. The European Commission however, confirmed that all MoU signatories, "have met their obligations under the MoU,"[15] stating specifically, "Concerning Apple's previous and present proprietary connectors and their compatibility with the agreement, the MoU allows for the use of an adaptor without prescribing the conditions for its provision" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

santaclaus 10y ago

> You can even charge your MBP and phone together from one of those generic portable USB-C backup batteries That is kind of cool -- but how many batteries is it going to take, in practice, to juice up a MBP from empty?

lobster_johnson 10y ago
I don't know the specs of the new MBPs, but my mid-2015 MBP's battery is 7530 mAh at full charge. You can get portable charger batteries that are much more than that these days; this one [1] is 26,800 mAh, which in theory could charge my MBP 3.5 times. In practice, less than that, but still probably at least two full charges. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh-Recharged/dp/B01LRQDAEI https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh-Re...
- dancek 10y ago
  You can't directly compare mAh values, as they're an unit of electric charge. The amount of energy depends on voltage, too. Power bank manufacturers are basically running a marketing scam; the batteries they sell have 3.7V while USB uses 5V. What's more, the MBP battery voltage is something around 12V. So the 26,800 mAh power bank has a capacity of 26,800 mAh * 3.7V = 99,600 mWh = 99.6 Wh of energy. Meanwhile, the 15" MBP has a 76 Wh battery. So theoretically you can do about 1.3 charges; realistically I'd say one full charge.
- leoedin 10y ago
  A Macbook Pro (or indeed any laptop) battery operates at a voltage much higher than that of your phone or a powerbank. The actual power available from the battery (in Wh) can therefore only be compared with another battery's quoted capacity if the voltage is taken into account. A MBP battery might be a 11.1V battery, while a portable power bank capacity is almost certainly quoted as a summation of the capacities of the 3.7V cells inside. The capacity of the power bank must therefore be divided by 3 to give the equivalent capacity in mAh at 11.1V.
- curried_haskell 10y ago
  That's not how electricity works.

KirinDave 10y ago

I don't get it. It's bad for hackers because of the tepid software updates, increasingly developer unfriendly application environment, lack of full touch in an age where every other manufacturer does that ad a standard, and awkward meshing with its own ecosystem. USB-C is pretty great, actually. Still pretty raw for the mainstream tech crowd, but it's not like that for tech-literate consumers.

barbs 10y ago
Yeah, I think this article has got me more excited for USB-C than the new MacBook Pro
cillian64 10y ago
Since when do hackers want touch-screens on their laptops? I feel like that's pretty much the least hacker-y feature a laptop can have.
- wsgeorge 10y ago
  I only speak for myself when I say it's something I would love to have at my disposal. Seeing my colleague intuitively reach out to the screen to use the Android Virtual Device when we're discussing something convinced me it was actually a nice thing to have.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    Testing touch UI design with a mouse pointer is futility embodied.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  Mobile and web are touch native now. It's fantastic for mobile developers to be able to have a similar input method for testing as use. I'm not sure what makes touch not poweruser and "hacker" friendly, but it's not the 80s anymore. Most of us have significant portions of our workload on the web and the web is, by and large, an extremely touch-friendly medium.
deleted 10y ago

hellofunk 10y ago

It is discussed here that you could charge one laptop off another. Okay, cool. But what if they are both plugged in, then you attach them over USB? Do they both send a charge out, possibly cause one or both to fry? And what if you have multiple sources of charging plugged into the machine?

prodmerc 10y ago
I assume there's some form of auto negotiation? For what it's worth, I connected two laptops via USB, Nothing happened (though most likely they had built-in protection against that kind of bullshit)
tajen 10y ago
In the case you plug two Macbooks together and to the powerpoint, it charges the electricity back on the grid, which paves the way to infinite energy. More seriously the macbook can choose one source for its power.
moolcool 10y ago
I would imagine there's both software and hardware limits to how much current the charging circuit can accept, since having multiple chargers to one device is pretty likely with USB C. Like imagine hooking up two USB C displays which both act like chargers.
ageitgey 10y ago
Good questions! It's all in the USB Power Delivery [1] spec. The devices will do reasonable things. For example if you plug four power sources into the MacBook Pro (one in each port), it will take power only from the source that is supplying the highest power. Or if you plug a cell phone into a USB-C hub, it will suck as much power as it can to charge it's battery as quickly as possible. But if the hub needs more power temporarily to spin up a hard drive, the charging device can momentarily reduce it's power draw and then resume charging when the extra power is available again. [1] http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/ http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/

gnicholas 10y ago

> Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice! I've never even thought of bringing a phone wall charger with me when I have my laptop and laptop charger. Just plug the phone into the laptop if it needs charging.

ecaroth 10y ago
Which still requires the charging cord
- gnicholas 10y ago
  With an iPhone, (or any other phone that doesn't charge over USB C), this is always the case.
bdcravens 10y ago
Currently have an early 2014 MBP, and I never take my charger to the café. My laptop has more than enough juice to last a couple of hours. Never really bought into idea that spending $6 bought me an office for half a day or more.

zokier 10y ago

Not saying anything about the new MBP, but I would be really wary of connecting a $2000+ device to a random no-name $9 car charger. Heck, I'm not sure if I'd even want to connect my smart phone to that.

rasz_pl 10y ago

Author forgot to mention new MBPs dont use USB-C, they use _special Apple variant_ of USB-C. Variant that doesnt work with ordinary dongles, from hdmi dongles producing flickering mess to USB 2.0 dongles _silently corrupting files_ from pendrives.

AJ007 10y ago
Not sure why your comment was down voted - http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/ http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-th...
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  Thats one of the ways to cope with cognitive dissonance. Its obviously slander and trolling when someone says something bad about your multi $thousand purchase. 2016 MBP corrupting files _silently_ when using third party dongle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCvEzqDq8U&t=76m10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCvEzqDq8U&t=76m10s
- floatboth 10y ago
  Thunderbolt 3 is not a "special Apple variant". Most new high-end laptops these days have Thunderbolt 3. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=14&field_company_nid=All&field_prod_os_value_many_to_one=All&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=All https://thunderbolttechnology.net/products?tid=14&field_comp...
curried_haskell 10y ago
Let's not forget not properly shielding and some USB 3 devices killing WiFi with interference.

satysin 10y ago

USB-C is awesome. It is the future and in some ways it is good Apple are being the way they are. But... I wish Apple would put USB-C in the iDevices (honestly why does the iPhone and iPad use Lightning when USB-C exists??). It is annoying that I can ditch all my cables except that one fucking extra Apple cable.

jws 10y ago
Time will tell, but I wonder if reliability will be the issue. USB-C has 24 contacts crammed in there. That's a lot of tiny parts for something that gets manhandled and lint packed as much as a phone charger connection. If I was on the hook to warranty replace $600 devices when the internal connector gets ruined I might take my time jumping on board too.
- satysin 10y ago
  It isn't like Lightning is super reliable. I have had many official cables fall apart within a year of normal business travel and at least one port on an iPhone 6 fail most likely due to something getting in the port (although Apple never stated that obviously). I doubt USB-C is that much worse than Lightning. Even if it is say 10% less reliable as a cable it would still be much better to have a USB-C port simply because you are more likely to have a USB-C cable if everything else uses it.
  - grzm 10y ago
    at least one port on an iPhone 6 fail most likely due to something getting in the port I've found a wooden toothpick works wonderfully to clear out accumulated pocket lint from the port every 6 months or so.
    - satysin 10y ago
      Sadly nothing fixed it and I tried a dozen things. Totally anecdotal but I have had a Nexus 6P for over a year now and no issues with the USB-C port so, for me, it is just as durable so far as Lightning :)

bdcravens 10y ago

> Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice! Unless you have the two most common phones (Apple or Samsung), or any of the many others that don't yet support USB-C.

Odenwaelder 10y ago

What happens if you plug the monitor into your Nexus 6P? Do you get a regular Desktop?

majewsky 10y ago
Only if it runs RemixOS or Ubuntu Touch, I guess.
ageitgey 10y ago
Sadly the Nexus 6P doesn't support any kind of direct video-out (USB-C, HDMI or otherwise). It came out before the USB-C screen mirroring specs were finalized. All you can do is chromecast over the network. But hopefully by this time next year, new cell phones will generally support screen mirroring over USB-C. Some phones (like the LG G5 [1]) already support it. [1] http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2016/06/connect-your-lg-g5-to-usb-c-monitors-for-mirroring-charging-in-one-cable/ http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2016/06/connect-your-lg-g5-t...

akhilcacharya 10y ago

My biggest problem is that there are only 4, whereas I use 5 on a daily basis with my MBPr.

freehunter 10y ago
On the previous version there were only two, so I guess you're that much closer to your 5 devices you need.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  5 ports total - magsafe, 1 thunderbolt, 2 USB and HDMI are plugged in right now.
majewsky 10y ago
USB hubs are a thing.

ce4 10y ago

USB-C charging looks great on paper but disappoints when devices don't charge. Your device may support a subset of the different USB charging protocols: * USB 1.1 lo power: 5V/100mA * USB 2.0 hi power: 5V/500mA * USB 3.0: 5V/900mA * USB BC (battery charging): 5V/1.5A * USB quickcharge 1.0/2.0/3.0, proprietary Qualcomm standard * USB PD (power delivery) 5 profiles offering up to 100W (5/12/20V @ 1.5/2/3/5A) MacBooks also use a nonstandard 15V USB-PD profile. Unrelated to the MacBook, but problems i see with USB-C are: Chargers may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device. Second and most problematic: The MacBook is a good citizen here, but many laptops (HP business series, Dell XPS series) only support USB-C PD with profile 4&5 (20V/3A+). This rules out the car dongle as well as cheap USB power banks. The connector is always the same, the customer cannot deduce charger/device compatibility. The experience will suck. Edit: typos/formatting

johansch 10y ago
> Charger may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device. Who would ever expect Apple to do something like that? Oh wait...
- BHSPitMonkey 10y ago
  That argument looks like FUD to me. That would be a surefire way to get shunned by the USB-IF and be forbidden from using official USB identification on your products.
  - SyneRyder 10y ago
    Apple is already doing something similar though on the new MacBook Pro, there is a software block on Thunderbolt 3 devices that haven't also been "macOS certified" by Apple: https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/tb3-enabler-enable-unsupported-thunderbolt-3-devices-hack-macbook-pro/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/tb3-enabler-enable-unsupporte...
hollander 10y ago

carsongross 10y ago

After a week with a 13 inch, what I've mainly noticed is how physically unwelcoming it is: The edges are very sharp, and the air vents on the bottom are right where you grab the laptop to pick it up, which gives it a knife-like feel. Also, by expanding the track pad far beyond it's useful size, there is now no gap between it and the space key. I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now. The arrow keys are now a continuous run of keys with no way to orient quickly like previously (where the side arrows were slightly smaller and made it obvious where the up key was without looking.) . Finally, the keyboard action is very short, as you would expect with such a thin laptop. I do most of my work with an external keyboard and monitor, so it isn't that big a deal to me, but I can see it being hard on people who use their laptop exclusively.

rifung 10y ago
> I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now This is surprising and disappointing. I really enjoyed using Apple's touchpads with tap to click because their accidental press recognition was good enough that I never really worried about this. I typically had to turn tap to click off when using Linux because I would randomly click while typing. I wonder why they haven't been able to get it to work as well on the new touchpad
- Bud 10y ago
  Just speculating here, but this is precisely the sort of thing Apple generally fine-tunes and fixes with software updates in very short order. I would expect it will be so this time, too.
- kqr 10y ago
  > I typically had to turn tap to click off when using Linux because I would randomly click while typing. Palm detection should typically be tweaked through various driver parameters.
  - 10y ago

guelo 10y ago

Be careful with the idea that the charger is just a regular USB-C charger. These laptops will draw 3-4 amps at 20 volts. Most phone chargers are designed for 1-3amps at 5 volts, so they would only provide a trickle of charge to these laptops. Older chargers (and computers ports!) can be damaged by these higher power draws. Also, the USB-C cable the Macs come with is rated up to a hefty 5 amps. Some of the cheap phone cables out there could actually pose a fire danger if they were to handle 5 amps.

Waterluvian 10y ago
Are the MacBook USB-C ports special in some way that makes them USB-C and also a non-standard charger port? If not, then they must be compliant USB-C ports and therefore would not be supplying an incorrect voltage. As far as I understand the fundamentals of electricity, current doesn't matter. A 5v USB power source that can supply 100 amps would still only supply whatever the device was designed to draw when charging. But all of that is moot if the MacBook ports are "special" USB-C ports and somehow they negotiate a voltage higher than 5V.
- snuxoll 10y ago
  The USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) spec allows devices to negotiate up to 20V - the key word, however being "negotiate", means this is no different than how older USB charging solutions work (start at 5V+100mA, negotiate to whatever the client device can handle and what the host will allow). I'm always amused by how uninformed many people are about USB and power supply, if devices can't negotiate something that works for both ends they just stop. It's a shitty situation to be in if your device fails to charge, but devices that follow the USB-IF rules will never draw more current than the power source can supply, and the power source will never supply more than the device has requested.
  - Waterluvian 10y ago
    So if I plug a dumb device into it that only makes electrical contact, it won't make that negotiation. So, so long as Apple's MacBook USB charger is compliant, it won't destroy anything USB that I plug into it, so long as those devices are also compliant. Right?

phaedryx 10y ago

hackers -> people who use Apple laptops and android phones?

scarlac 10y ago
I think that's a pretty common setup for many hackers, yes. Some only buy it for the hardware, but I see plenty using macOS as well.
- egh5oon 10y ago
  For the HN definition of hackers, maybe.

josephhainline 10y ago

Sounds useful for the very few macOS or iOS developers who happen to have Android phones.

Pulce 10y ago

I am happy Steve Jobs has died, he was so stupid...

geophile 10y ago

So USB-C sounds great. Too bad the laptop offering it has a crippled keyboard.

izacus 10y ago

While we're at it... I just got my 15" MBP and I can't get pass the fact that the keyboard backlight is noticably uneven - e.g. the clover logo in Command buttons isn't fully lit, "alt" text on option etc. Is anyone else seeing this or is it a faulty unit?

pstadler 10y ago
Same here. Also my down arrow is really loud on release. Scheduled an appointment with Apple to sort these issues out. When I look at the black screen from a wide angle (either from left or right) the surface looks uneven. This doesn't have any impact on picture quality though. Does somebody know whether this is due to the anti-glare coating? Otherwise I'm really happy with my non-Touch Bar 13" model (i7, 16GB).

steeve 10y ago

I have an 13" since almost a week. I think it's great. 95% of my time is spent in iTerm/VSCode/XCode/Android Studio. Some remarks: - Keyboard, especially arrow keys, took me 2 days to get used to, but now it feels weird typing on a old macbook. I actually love it and prefer it now. - The thumb + touchpad thing mentioned elsewhere here was definitely a big problem in the first day or two. It isn't anymore (guess I got used to it? not sure because I didn't try to avoid it) - USB-C is freaking awesome. I bought an adapter with ethernet, HDMI, usb 3 and SD that actually replaces the 3 adapters I had to carry around. And because of UPD, I only have one cable to plug to the mac and everything is there including power. - I don't miss magsafe as much as I thought I would. Although I would happily buy an adapter if it is thin enough (some are coming). - Touchbar is actually pretty great, although it being a touch screen, the lack of touch feedback can be annoying at first. Pretty ESC is annoying at first, but I got used to it and don't mind it now. - Touchbar would be an _awesome_ medium to get notifications (such as long running terminal jobs etc...) - I didn't get any of the battery life issues people are talking about. Actually, I get 8-10 hours out of it easily (ie plug it at the end of the day because I forgot it was unplugged). - Thinner bezels around the screen makes it somehow look bigger (even though the visible area is the same size and the screen/lid itself is smaller). - HiDPi is freaking great. Finally I can use a 4k monitor smaller than 32" and still get retina display (1440p HiDPi and other intermediate resolutions up to native 3820x2160 are fully supported) - It is really thin (no thinner that a Macbook Air, but still). It's feels really great. - Actually, I just noticed that because it is thinner, my wrists don't get hurt by the edges like they used to (the exact opposite of what someone mentioned here).

function_seven 10y ago
Can you share what USB-C adapter you went with?
- steeve 10y ago
  Sure: https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B01IQV5U68/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B01IQV5U68/ref=oh_aui_detai... Although don't use it for 4k, as it is only HDMI 1.4 (4k@30hz). I am not aware of hubs like this with HDMI 2.0 yet. I bought a USB Type C => DisplayPort adapter for the 4k monitor.

albertgao 10y ago

Sorry, the charger comes with Microsoft surface series has an additional USB port, so I can charge my phone and laptop at the same time. And I won't buy some so called stupid USB c monitor just for meet the needs of the new macbook. This article perfectly described how awful the dongles world looks like.

jwatte 10y ago

I need a GPU and as much RAM as possible to run VMs. The new MBP, with wimpy graphics and 16 GB of RAM, does worse than a Razer Blade (also USB C, has been out since early 2016)

vacri 10y ago

Most of the article seems to be "port compatibility between Apple laptops and Google phones", and doesn't work for those with Apple phones.

dman 10y ago

I have no idea how we got to the USB C connector mess. I thought one of the hard fought battles of the tech ecosystem was "if it fits, it will work". What is the rationale for using the same connector for incompatible use cases?

TTPrograms 10y ago
Yeah, this is going to be a nightmare for non-technical consumers. It's almost shockingly bad.

KKKKkkkk1 10y ago

Is there a technical reason why Apple does not provide a MagSafe-style USB-C cable with the new MBP? Is it pure carelessness?

grzm 10y ago
Looking at a USB-C plug compared to that of a MagSafe, I'm not sure they would have been able to come up with anything as well-designed as the MagSafe itself. Rather than make due with a more clunky design similar to the Griffin BreakSafe, I suspect they chose to omit it.
- ssijak 10y ago
  You could do Griffin BreakSafe style on the charger side and not laptop side, so it would look nice.
  - grzm 10y ago
    it would look nice In your opinion, perhaps. I don't think the designers at Apple agree. If they did, I think we would see something similar to the BreakSafe from Apple.

spacehacker 10y ago

I am disappointed by the Touch Bar. It is such a small and dim screen and a lot of attention is required for interacting with it. There is no tactile feedback, so touch typing is impossible. QuickType and Emojis are useless for me. It might be a good accessibility feature, but QuickType is much too slow and the upward movement of the entire hand/arm interrupts the flow of typing. I think the Touch Bar is great for designers who can benefit from a 'general purpose touch/slider input device' (e.g. for color mixing, navigating timelines, parameter fine-tuning). It might also reduce cognitive load a bit since it reduces the need for memorizing keyboard shortcuts. On the other hand, users who are blessed with a good memory will probably not benefit very much in that regard because pressing a key combination is much quicker than scanning and touching the Touch Bar. The only attractive feature of the Touch Bar model really is Touch ID. If Apple would sell the Function Keys model with a Touch ID power button and one more USB port, I would happily buy it. But right now, I am a little bit confused and baffled by Apple's new MacBook Pro product line. I think I am going to wait another generation to see whether Apple gets back on track and whether the Touch Bar can stand the test of time.

mememachine 10y ago
I think apple is a little bit lost without steve
- wyclif 10y ago
  Most amusing comment in this thread, but in all seriousness I think that's quite true.
hjnilsson 10y ago
The function keys were never used for anything in OSX, as the "culture" is to use key chords instead. So even if it's not used much, I think it's an improvement.
- spacehacker 10y ago
  I use the function keys a lot for changing volume, screen/keyboard brightness, pausing/playing music. I also launch Terminal and Firefox to F3 and F4, I heavily make use of ESC for all kinds of things (VIM, closing UI dialogs) and I occasionally use the function keys for some shortcuts such as finding the next occurrence with F3 in Foxit Reader, F10 to compile, F7 to show the desktop, F6 to switch between Karabiner profiles. For me it would be quite a loss.

waspleg 10y ago

I read this as "fan boy with too much money replaces every peripheral he owns with USB-C; looks for ways to justify being an early adopter while showboating". Fuck given? 0.

sklivvz1971 10y ago

No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. I get it that prosumers like to think of themselves as "hackers", but ...that's just not how it works. Come on.

rayiner 10y ago
I think it's funny how signaling things like "expandable performance" and "deep key travel" get tied to being a hacker. The only thing you can upgrade even on an expandable laptop is memory and disk, which a hacker is probably maxing out to begin with. (Even expandable laptops are pretty limited by the chipsets these days in how much RAM they can handle). And given the high resale value of Macs, your typical Silicon Valley worker will probably spend more on lattes than on simply selling their Mac every couple of years and buying a new one.
- pmontra 10y ago
  HP Zbook first gen here: I can also replace CPU and GPU. I didn't do it and never will do but it's in the user manual. I upgraded RAM and swapped the DVD with a 1 TB SSD. The HD is still in there, auto shutdown after 5 secs. I use it for storing large files I don't need on the SSD but could be handy to be online sometimes, like raw videos from my camera. I'd like to replace the keyboard with one without the number pad. Possible in theory but there is no part that fits on the market. The only 15" laptops without number pad at the time were the Mac and I think the XPS, which was overheating. Maybe the problem with the latter is solved now.
milkytron 10y ago
In my own (possibly and probably inaccurate) opinion, I feel as though "hackers" aren't the people who need professional gear to do professional (or daily) tasks. They're the ones who can make the most out of as little equipment as possible. "See that toaster over there? It's been reprogrammed to automatically deposit my cat's food every fourth hour and have it warm as well." "That 2009 dinosaur of a smartphone sitting in the corner? It's an IP surveillance camera." "That first generation Xbox, it's powering the zoom feature of the Hubble Telescope." That last one might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but my point is that something isn't great because it's the latest. Something is great because someone increased it's value after using it or created something of higher value than the equipment used to create it. > Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. To address this point... some might. But not all will. And I certainly think that fewer will than the generations before. I really hope USB-C will be as great as these companies say it will, but until then I'll happily use my different ports that work as they are expected to.

geoka9 10y ago

> You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters like this by the handful on Amazon for cents But beware of the really cheap ones, they can burn your "legacy" USB ports: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-...

Yabood 10y ago

I returned my MacBook Pro 15' earlier today. Here's why: * Graphics card glitches - I paid close to 4K so I don't have to deal with quality control issues. * Touchpad is just too large. I found myself resting my palm on it all the time, and sometimes (clicking) without realizing it. Also, if you like lying down and working (which I do sometimes because of a lower back problem) the size of the touchpad will make you work extra hard to avoid accidental clicks. * Had the machine for ~ 10 days, used the touch bar less than that. Definitely not worth the money. Hopefully in the future, they'll have the 15' option without it. * The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either. * Recovery mode has many issues with network connectivity. A few times, I had to tether/connect to my iPhone hotspot for it to go through. * Sharp edges everywhere. The specs are very underwhelming too, but I was willing to tolerate lower specs for higher build quality. I actually just picked up an XPS 15 9550 from Microcenter. Got the 2.6Ghz, 16GB (expandable to 32GB), 512GB SSD, 4K touchscreen for $1350 (an open box, new for $1499).

yo-code-sucks 10y ago
You're bitching about using a mac for windows work? Really, shut the fuck up.
jaxondu 10y ago
Great move. Keep hearing from forums, reddit small issues here and there for this first-gen notebook. Looks like many others are paying premium to Apple to be their beta testers. Really hope Apple release non-touch bar version in parallel for future refresh.
jtl999 10y ago
> * The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either. Also a problem on previous models. I was working on my own GPU switching solution but gave up due to lack of time and the fact most of my applications work just fine under OS X. I'd be interested doing the same with Debian or similar Linux though.

rufius 10y ago

I'll just go ahead and contradict the running opinion and say: I like my 2016 MacBook Pro 15". I've owned a few Macs and this one is my favorite. Despite my initial impressions, I really like the keyboard. I'm also quite happy with the trackpad which I've found to be excellent as usual and not picking up stray contact. The only place I'm not "ecstatic" or "pleased" is with the TouchBar - and to be clear, I'm not displeased. I just don't really notice it. It's there doing its thing and I'm using the laptop, doing my thing. Occasionally I need the escape key and tap where I'd expect the escape key to be and while I don't get the tactile feedback it works. All in all - the TouchBar is a net zero to me. I didn't lose anything by losing my Fn keys but I don't feel I gained anything with the TouchBar except TouchId which is nice. TL;DR: Overpriced? Definitely. Pleased with product? Yes. TouchBar? No strong feelings. Returning it? No.

nicky0 10y ago
Net zero only if you don't factor in the extra price you had to pay for it.
dom96 10y ago
I'm finding it really odd that people are praising the new keyboard. I must admit that I have only tested it in the Apple Store, but I find it terrible, the short travel feels really bad to me. Is this something that you just get used to?
- rupertj 10y ago
  Bought my new MBP yesterday. I was expecting to have to get used to the keyboard, but was typing on it just fine straight away. Now I actually prefer the feel to my previous 2012 Air.
- hjnilsson 10y ago
  As for as laptop keyboards, it's pretty great. The greater issue is with the palm rejection of the giant touchpad. That is considerably worse than before (when it was never a problem). This is something that can be solved with software though, so not too worried.
- 10y ago

yandrypozo 10y ago

i didn't see the part that it's "great for hackers"

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hobarrera 10y ago

The article goes on and on about fun new stuff that you can do (and I don't deny them). But we can't do the same old things we NEED to do, like keep using all our existing cables and devices (including mice!). Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation. Regarding the "it's the same plug as your phone": It's not! iPhones have lightning cable (ironically, their own phone!).

wsgeorge 10y ago
> Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation. This. Dropping all the old ports was a step too far, I think. It's forward looking, but it's an inconvenience today. I'm sure a smoother transition would've been more welcome.

outworlder 10y ago

Nearly half of the article was about USB-C. Guess what? MacBooks are not the only ones with that port. $900 laptops have them, and most have at least one USB-A port as well. Not sure what any of this has to do with hacking.

znpy 10y ago

On one hand, I must admit that I didn't consider all this. But quite franky, this post only makes me excited about USB-C and usb-c enabled monitors. I wonder how much power can a laptop draw from a monitor though.. I currently have a ThinkPad W530 with a 170W power adapter which literally is a brick (in both shape and weight). I wonder if a monitor could power a such-power-hungry beast).

fit2rule 10y ago

tl;dr: USB-C is awesome, because Android phones that use it are awesome. Oh, and Apple made a USB-C device, finally, too.

joelbondurant 10y ago

Computing appliances are not computers. Great for children tho.

Demcox 10y ago

"...we’re going to look back on this and wonder why everyone was so worked up." My reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncgoPKklVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncgoPKklVE

mpweiher 10y ago

Just got my 13" two days ago and very happy with it so far. I had a 13" before, got a 15" at work and my girlfriend has the 12". I was almost ready for a 12" myself, and am glad I waited. Although it is noticeably heavier than the 12", and not really objectively that much lighter than the previous versions, the new 13" has the same "just pick it up with one hand" feel that the 12" has. It is wonderful. My 2 year old daughter has watched me unlock it with my thumb and tries to do the same without succeeding :-) And she can't mess up the password input field either, because there is none. (She can get my iPad into a "reset" state in seconds that I have to then recover from backup. I still have no idea how she does it). I did have to remove the Siri button from the toucher because (a) it is too close to the delete key and (b) I just don't need Siri that often. The UI for that is pretty neat, by the way: the mouse is able to move into the touchbar, so you can just drag'n'drop into and out of it. Since I remap my modifiers anyway (caps-lock -> control, where god and Digital Equipment Corporation intended the control key to go), I had no problem mapping the now largely useless control key to escape, although I haven't had a problem with the soft escape key yet. Nice benefit: bringing up the force-quit panel is now very easy. I really like the USB-C so far, will be far fewer cables and power adapters on upcoming trips. While MagSafe was nice, I won't miss the always fraying cables, especially since they were permanently attached to the power brick, so frayed cable → new brick. I was surprised how quickly the TouchBar became unremarkable, though the fact that there is a single button to open a man-page for the currently typed command in Terminal is definitely kinda cool! Volume/brightness adjustments take a little more looking (for now), though the fact that you can scrub from the "key" without lifting despite that the control is elsewhere makes it pretty easy. And scrubbing media via the TouchBar is definitely way, way less fiddly than via on-screen controls. The keyboard looks much classier than my previous MBP's, and I prefer the feel. But then again, I seem to be weird when it comes to keyboards, for example I loved the Amiga 1000 keyboard and hated the big-travel, clicky/noisy keyboards on the original IBM PCs that everyone else still raves about. EDIT: 95% battery, watching youtube video, 7h+ remaining.

aq3cn 10y ago

This MacBook Pro has given me good reasons to learn to build a custom PC. I am okay dual booting or visualizing OS X in Linux or Windows. On the other hand, I am impressed how Asus, Dell and Razor has allowed use of external desktop top notch NVIDIA graphics card in their laptops along with USB C and RAID support while keeping system upgradable. http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth Thanks Apple.

kbumsik 10y ago

Hackers? Looks like hackers mean people who like gadgets in his post. They are NOT hackers at least. If hackers mean software/hardware engineer or someone who like programming, a laptop with only USB-C ports is a total disaster because hackers usually have to deal with legacy hardware/system.

aib 10y ago

Apparently the author has just discovered standards.

jasode 10y ago

>You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters like this by the handful on Amazon for cents: Buying a proper USB-C adapter is not trivial.[1] I read somewhere that Amazon subsequently removed a lot of bad listings/sellers but that doesn't mean a new batch of bad adapters are selling now 2016. >In a year or two when we all have junk drawers packed full of extra generic USB-C cables that cost nearly nothing, we’re going to look back on this and wonder why everyone was so worked up. Because Apple didn't synchronize the USB-C-is-the-future simultaneously across all new products. The brand new iPhone 7 is Lightning instead of USB-C. The brand new yet-to-be-released AirPods' recharging dock is Lightning instead of USB-C. That's what leads to the mob mocking Apple's product strategy requiring the clutter of dongles.[2] [1]http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/google-engineer-leaves-scathing-reviews-of-dodgy-usb-type-c-cables-on-amazon/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/google-engineer-leave... [2]https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works_apple/ https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5a6lbd/it_just_works...