15 ms·

2016 Retina MacBook Pro Caveats

265 points by lvh 10y ago

kbd 10y ago
Some people have also reported hours less battery life than advertised.
- nilkn 10y ago
  There are also issues with palm rejection on the supersized trackpads. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5e094c/users_are_reporting_trackpad_problems_on_their/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5e094c/users_are_rep...
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  this is one reason i'm staying with El Cap on my 2014 rMBP. I see where a lot of people are losing 10-20% battery. that's not insignificant.
baus 10y ago
The lack of DisplayPort support is significant. This requires buying new monitors? Which monitors does the MBP support?
- sandipc 10y ago
  One of these should work fine http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908
- nicky0 10y ago
  It supports DisplayPort but not with a Thunderbolt 2 adapter
  - baus 10y ago
    Ok, so I'm confused. Why would you want to use DP with ThunderBolt 2? Is this only for 4k monitors?
    - lvh 10y ago
      Thunderbolt normally supports multiple protocols over the same plug/cable. The Thunderbolt 2 port on my old MBP is where you plug in the monitor. Thunderbolt 2 matters, because that comes with DisplayPort 1.2 support, which is necessary for 4k@60Hz.
revelation 10y ago
He has a brand new display (which in displays, is <5 years) and was going to connect it through a triple chain of dongles and adapters? Display <> DisplayPort-to-mDP2 <> TB 3 to 2 <> USB-C to TB 3 <> MacBook What is going on?
- mikeash 10y ago
  It would just be a single cable plus an adapter. The monitor cable has DP on one end and mini-DP on the other end. Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB-C connector and is what the ports on the MacBook are. So it's: Display -> DP to mini-DP cable -> TB2 to TB3 -> MacBook. Or, one extra step than the old MacBook needed, if only it actually worked.
  - lvh 10y ago
    Just wanted to confirm that you are correct :) The AppleCare support people suggested I had "too many dongles" -- cheekily, I agree; I would be very happy with zero!
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Since USB-C does DisplayPort directly, can you use a cable that has USB-C on one end and DP on the other end? Or is DP over USB-C sufficiently different that you need some sort of active adapter?
- benvds 10y ago
  I've been a mac user for 12 years, have my current retina macbook for 4 years, consider myself a pro user and want to buy a new "mobile computer". I'm no longer considering buying an apple macbook. OS X is great but with these prices I can no longer validate it's value anymore and looking into buying an xps.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    I would love to see Dell publish some XPS figures before and after the new MBP announcement. I see a lot of people say they're considering one.
mikeash 10y ago
Not supporting DisplayPort with an adapter is just insane. Apple's new top-end laptop is incompatible with the most common way to connect external monitors? I've been willing to give Apple and the new MBP the benefit of the doubt on this stuff, and in particular I don't mind that it needs dongles now if that means we get universal USB-C adoption faster. But the dongles need to actually exist and work now!
- stormbrew 10y ago
  My understanding is that it's specifically the thunderbolt-2 adapter that doesn't support further adapting to other alternate mode mechanisms. This might be because of incompatibilities between TB2 and TB3/USB3.1 alternate mode implementations? It doesn't mean it can't do DP over a specific type-c to DP cable/dongle, which presumably are or will be a thing (eg: https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_cable https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...). The author appears to want to wait for docks that do both DP and power delivery, if I understand correctly.
  - lvh 10y ago
    You're correct on both counts: Apple suggested I purchased such a dongle. Unfortunately, as per the post, that's not easy; most USB-C devices currently available don't work. I'm holding out specifically for rMBP2016-compatible devices; and it seems a little silly not to wait for a dock now and get the tempting one-cable experience.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    There are USB-C to DisplayPort cables. You need some sort of converting cable anyway--the old MBP had Mini DisplayPort and I've never seen a monitor with a MiniDP input.
    - lvh 10y ago
      (Author here) The Dell P2515Q I have has both DisplayPort and mDP2 in and out (for chaining).
Bytes 10y ago
The problems with the new macbook "pro" seem to keep on growing. I am really surprised that Apple did not find the connecting to external display issue in internal testing.
- dom0 10y ago
  I'm somewhat surprised by the whole touch bar thing, other manufacturers (e.g. Lenovo on the X1) tried it before and use acceptance was miserable.
  - Caballera 10y ago
    It's actually a nice to have feature, but at least not yet, not a must have. Just having Touch ID makes it worth it to me.
  - nilkn 10y ago
    I picked up a new MBP and I have to say I do like the Touch Bar. It's certainly not a must-have, but Apple's implementation is pretty polished. My favorite use is music/volume control. I can control music from both iTunes and a buried YouTube Safari tab at the same time through the Touch Bar.
    - izacus 10y ago
      How is that different from pressing Fn + F keys before?
      - nilkn 10y ago
        I'm not sure which key combinations specifically you're referring to. How would I use the old function keys to switch music playing from iTunes to a paused YouTube tab in a Safari window on another desktop? And how would I use the function keys to scrub through a song to find a specific part all without giving focus to the music playing app? Maybe all this was possible before but I never knew about any of it. If that's the case that's another strength of the touch bar -- I had no issue discovering this functionality this time.
Tom1971 10y ago
While, over time, a lot of today's annoyances with the new Macabook's will fade away, the lack of ESC key is a deal breaker for me. I tried it at the Apple Store and it's pretty much unusable. (It had the seen issue as the writer, apparently relying on the physical click to know whether or not I had pressed it. In addition, I also mistyped it a lot. Maybe hack to replace the whole touch bar as one single ESC key will do it...) I've been told to remap the ESC to CAPS LOCK to vim usage, but I seem to be one of a rare breed who uses the latter the way it was intended to be, so that's a no go for me.
- nilkn 10y ago
  Following the lead of Spacemacs I remapped Esc in vim to "fd". It works surprisingly well and is extremely easy and fast to type.
  - randlet 10y ago
    I use jk to exit from insert mode, but you still need an escape key to cancel actions when entering commands. For example if I type :wq and decide I actually don't want to quit, I still need to hit Esc to cancel. It would be nice if :wqjk (or :wqfd) would allow you to cancel but I don't think that's possible is it?
    - shadytrees 10y ago
      very possible! :cnoremap jk <C-C>
      - randlet 10y ago
        Whoo! Thank you very much!
- Caballera 10y ago
  The escape key is still there, it's on the Touch Bar, I have no issues with using it, and I haven't had to re-map it. Also you can hit the 'fn' key and the 'Function' bar and escape key will appear while using any other 'app' that changes the Touch Bar.
otterley 10y ago
We bought a 15" 2016 Macbook Pro ("Retina" is redundant; there are no 2016 MBPs that lack a Retina display.) We also bought a LG 27UD88-W monitor to go with it. (It's one of the few that has a USB-C input.) I have to say, I'm really impressed by the single-cable solution. The monitor charges the laptop (57W maximum, which is less than the Apple charger, but "good enough"), and the laptop sends both video and USB peripheral connections to the monitor, which acts as a USB 3.0 hub. One cable. It's kind of amazing and magical if you think about it. There are some rough edges, though: (1) Sometimes the computer reports that it's not charging. Sometimes it does. We don't know why just yet. We can always connect the Apple-supplied charger though. (2) When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub. This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future firmware version. (3) We can't use the Apple-supplied USB charging cable to connect the laptop to the display. The connectors are the same, but.. it just doesn't work. As a technical person, I understand why; but it's going to be unnecessarily confusing to people if two cables that look alike don't act alike. This is going to raise technical support costs greatly until all USB-C cables are capable of all transports and functions and the old ones are phased out. Why Apple didn't ship a fully-capable cable in the box is puzzling to me.
- Siecje 10y ago
  Why doesn't the Apple-supplied USB charging cable work?
  - cpmsmith 10y ago
    Not all USB-C connectors are created equal. Something with that connector can support or not support a number of protocols, e.g. USB, Thunderbolt 3, USB-C power throughput, etc.
    - wlesieutre 10y ago
      In this case, the cable used with the monitor needs to be a Thunderbolt 3 cable, not just a USB-C cable. I haven't seen a teardown of the new ones, but at least for the previous generation there's a bit more to it than your average cable. https://www.wired.com/2011/06/thunderbolt-cable-teardown-reveals-enough-chips-to-make-a-computer/ https://www.wired.com/2011/06/thunderbolt-cable-teardown-rev... Thunderbolt 2 had the same compatibility issue in that it was the same connector as Mini DisplayPort but couldn't run over a standard DP cable. That was pretty minor since it's not like everyone has a pile of loose DP cables sitting around. On the other hand, your average consumer never uses a Thunderbolt device to begin with on account of them being significantly more expensive than other accessories. They'll likely never run into this even with it using a USB-like cable, and the people who do need TB will figure it out.
cygned 10y ago
The first time I plugged in a hub with power and HDMI, I got a kernel panic and the MacBook's keyboard did not work after the first reboot. I was a bit scared.
- hackcrafter 10y ago
  Crap! Did it start working after the first time?
  - cygned 10y ago
    Yes, I had to reboot again and everything worked fine.
Alex3917 10y ago
The best thing I've seen so far is reports of the touchbar getting stuck on the screen: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touchbar_just_moved_to_the_screen_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touc...
perfmode 10y ago
Right now is a great time to score a 2015 model. Doesn't make sense to buy a new MacBook Pro until a 32 GB option is available imho.
- toodlebunions 10y ago
  Agreed completely
- TheDrizzle43 10y ago
  Before it was announced I was 100% sure going to grab a new MacBook Pro but now I find myself looking at refurbished 2015 models.
  - Kiro 10y ago
    Why not the 2016 model without TouchBar?
    - r-s 10y ago
      Does not come in 15 inch.
      - fancy_pantser 10y ago
        Sure it does: http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2L...
        fgandiya 10y ago
        That's the 2015 version.
        citruspi 10y ago
        If you look at the product code in the link (MJLQ2LL) and check it against the list of MacBook Pro models[0], you'll see that it's a 2015 model. There aren't any 15" 2016 models without a touch bar. [0]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300
rayiner 10y ago
The execution failures are just unacceptable for such an expensive product. The Surface Book was half baked at launch, but at least Microsoft has the excuse that Skylake was bleeding edge at that time. Apple is dealing with a mature stack here.
api 10y ago
This is starting to sound like the Windows Vista of Macs. :(
asragab 10y ago
I really appreciated the no nonsense, non-editorialized description of his experiences. Given the recent political climate, it is a nice change of pace. The external monitor and wifi issues seem egregious, could these be OS related issues?
- lvh 10y ago
  Thanks! My understanding is that the TB2/3 dongle issue is a hardware limitation; although I'm hopeful the WiFi issues with older USB-C devices will go away.
- illumin8 10y ago
  From what I've heard, many USB3 interfaces have been causing Wifi and Bluetooth reception problems for a few years now. This is due to electromagnetic interference in the 2.4ghz. spectrum. I wouldn't expect a high-end Apple product to have this issue though; this is the type of problem you expect from cheap beige box PCs.
  - rickyc091 10y ago
    I can confirm that my wifi goes out with certain USB 3.0 hubs as well on my 2013 MBP.
  - mamon 10y ago
    How about using Wi-Fi in 5 GHz channel ? Should solve the issue, shouldn't it ?
    - illumin8 10y ago
      You're right, it should solve the issue, however, there are a couple things at play: 1. If you have a newer wifi AP that supports 5ghz, it might allow you to create a separate SSID for 5ghz, which is great, because now you can specify which network you want to connect to, and can choose the 5ghz. band to avoid this interference. Some routers don't let you specify, and use the same SSID for both bands, which means you can't really tell what you're connecting to. 2. Unfortunately, 5ghz. has a shorter range, so it will be less reliable in large houses, or where coverage is weak.
ProAm 10y ago
It just works...
heisenbit 10y ago
Ouch, does that mean my Thunderbolt display is of no use in the future? Any idea how to continue to use it?
- pilif 10y ago
  If it's a Thunderbolt display, it'll work. If it's a Mini DisplayPort display (which uses the exact same connector as Thunderbolt), then it won't work.
andrewfromx 10y ago
fyi Control-C = Esc in vim. So the new mac without real esc key just means leaning to do control-c vs. esc if u can't stand the virtual esc key.
- cygned 10y ago
  <C-c> and <Esc> is not 100% the same because the former sends a signal and other details. Because I like to use <C-c> too, I have just remapped it to <Esc> in all modes.
- amelius 10y ago
  Can't you just map another key to Esc, like with xmodmap or its OSX equivalent?
Rezo 10y ago
If you're used to the Mac's "force app to quit" Command-Option-Esc shortcut, it won't work from the touchbar if the app is unresponsive: https://twitter.com/technosucks/status/800831482608484352 https://twitter.com/technosucks/status/800831482608484352 "You might not be able to use the Esc button in the Touch Bar if the app you're using becomes unresponsive." https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358 Fortunately you can still force the Mac to shut down with the Touch ID button after it locks up.
- adamio 10y ago
  "If you need to use Esc to force an app to close, you can switch to another app and try Option-Command-Escape. You can also choose Apple menu > Force Quit." https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358
  - diggan 10y ago
    Heh, that makes me think about Finder that is always open. What if Finder is the only app you have open, and it hangs?
    - kilburn 10y ago
      Cmd+space (spotlight) -> calculator (or whatever) and then force-quit finder :p
      - r00fus 10y ago
        It'd be nice if Apple had an app simply called Force Quit :)
        matt4077 10y ago
        Click the apple in the top left corner -> Force Quit.
        10y ago
ChuckMcM 10y ago
"Most dongles don't work" was what killed it for me, after reading several reports that it was really hard to hook up anything reliably to the USB-C ports given the churn in the dongle market I decided to skip this generation and go for the next rev.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> after reading several reports We HN users are fortunate to be "in the know" about these issues, because we keep up with this information. Can you imagine how the out of the box experience would feel like for less-informed early buyers of the new MBP who find out about these issues post purchase? I get the impression it's going to hurt the "everything just works" reputation that Macs have had for the longest time.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    "Several" isn't really a reliable number. I know of three people with new MBPs, and none of them are experiencing any of these issues.
rocky1138 10y ago
Wi-fi going down when you plug in an external device is completely unacceptable.
- kaizensoze 10y ago
  This isn't anything new. It's a well established fact that USB 3.0 interferes with 2.4 Ghz Wi-Fi. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-ser...
  - mconzen 10y ago
    The PC Mag link claims that this is alleviated on routers with shielded USB 3.0 ports while using shielded cables. Are the ports unshielded on the new Macbooks, or are the people reporting the issue using unshielded cables? Is Apple shipping these with unshielded cables?
- amckinlay 10y ago
  Bluetooth, too. I can't use a Bluetooth LE mouse with my MacBook or the Wi-Fi dies and the mouse skips all over the screen. Useless.
toodlebunions 10y ago
This is sounding like the least appealing MacBook "Pro" ever made.
- city41 10y ago
  And the iPhone 7 is the least interesting iPhone upgrade ever IMO. I'm pretty disinterested in Apple right now.
asd 10y ago
I have a fully loaded 15" arriving on Monday. If I cannot connect it to my beloved Dell P2715Q at 4K@60hz, I'm sending it back. This is clownstickery at its finest.
- lvh 10y ago
  Hopefully I can save you some frustration. If you got the TB2 dongle, it won't work. Apple suggests you purchase a third party DisplayPort dongle. Make sure it's DisplayPort 1.2 (that's what lets you do 4k@60Hz). No advice on what to buy though; except check the reviews to make sure it works on the 2016 MBP! (_NOT_ the MacBook! Compatibility with the MacBook means nothing.)
  - asd 10y ago
    Thanks. @sandipc above linked to this[1] monoprice cable, but it's out of stock with no ETA. :( I'll keep looking. [1] http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908
    - cmenke 10y ago
      This one should work as well: https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_cable https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - njitram 10y ago
      This one might work: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QO8186 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QO8186
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
rebootthesystem 10y ago
It is starting to feel like the "Pro" is actually more of a consumer toy for gaming and messing with Facebook rather than a real professional machine. I need to buy a new laptop today. For development, not to play games. The unix underpinning of MacOS always made their machines attractive, expensive, but attractive nonetheless. I'll go visit the Apple store and see but it is starting to look like it'll be a waste of time. It looks like I'll make a detour over to Best Buy and get one of the high end HP laptops with 17 inch screen, full keyboard, lots of ports, etc. I can then install VMWare Workstation with Ubuntu Desktop. Add another couple of VM with Ubuntu Server, run them all at once in a virtual network to simulate application and DB servers and develop on Linux. Done deal. Probably half the money. With what's left over I can go buy that TIG welder I've been eyeballing.
- prh8 10y ago
  If you're heading to Best Buy, what about a 2015 MPB? I would assume that like previous releases, they continue to sell the older model at a cheaper price.
  - rebootthesystem 10y ago
    I'll look at everything. Thanks.
- xienze 10y ago
  Unless you absolutely need the laptop today, don't get something from BB. They're really not known for selling quality PC laptops. Go online and get something like an XPS or Thinkpad.
  - tolger 10y ago
    It depends on the laptop. I've seen Dell XPS-13 and XPS-15 on sale at BB. Both of which are excellent.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- 10y ago
MitjaBezensek 10y ago
A few other problems I came across: 1. Battery life is much lower than specified: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/battery-life-for-13-and-15-macbook-pro.2015074/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/battery-life-for-13-and-... 2. Some users report graphic card problems: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pool-do-you-have-graphic-card-issue-on-new-2016-15.2016743/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pool-do-you-have-graphic... Here is how it looks like: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-freaks-out-with-brand-new-mbp-2016.2015545/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-freaks-out-... 3. TouchBar graphics sometimes display on the screen instead of on the TouchBar: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touchbar_just_moved_to_the_screen_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touc...
- rayiner 10y ago
  I wonder how much of the battery life issue is that the new one has a much brighter backlight. Half brightness should get you about 250 nits on the new one, versus 150 nits on the old one. Tests that calibrate to an actual brightness level rather than a given brightness setting don't seem to show worse battery life.
  - MitjaBezensek 10y ago
    The users used the same settings brightness settings as Apple on their benchmarks (75% brightness) just to be sure. But the observed battery life was often half that of the official one.
    - rayiner 10y ago
      75% brightness on a 500 nit display is insane. Did the previous generation specify 75% brightness setting for the wireless web test? Typical indoor tests are conducted at 100-200 nits.
- Rezo 10y ago
  The 2015 13" Pro has a 74.9-watt-hour battery. The 2016 13" non-Touch Bar Pro has a 54.5-watt-hour battery. The 2016 13" Touch Bar Pro has a 49.2-watt-hour-battery! The components in the 2016 models are more power efficient. But at some point you'll run into physics. Apple may claim the battery life is the same as before when watching a movie (probably entirely HW accelerator offloaded by now), but if you're compiling code all day I wouldn't expect the new laptop to match the previous battery life based on the raw numbers alone.
Mister_Snuggles 10y ago
I had a similar problem with failing WiFi on my mid-2010 MacBook Pro. When I used a third-party MiniDisplayPort to DVI adapter, wireless would not work. When I used the Apple adapter, it worked fine. Interestingly enough, I found that under some circumstances the 3rd-party adapter will work fine. My working theory is that it doesn't have as much shielding as the Apple adapter and puts out just enough interference to clobber my WiFi signal when I'm far enough away from the access point. Maybe this is the same issue?
adjkant 10y ago
I still can't believe Magsafe is gone. I swear I save a Mac every month via Magsafe and worry about when I have to upgrade in a few years. They better release a clean version of this by then.
- freehunter 10y ago
  I've actually had a problem with Magsafe. When I'm using my laptop on my lap, my leg pushes up on the adapter, which causes it to disconnect very easily. But I can lift my 13" 2015 rMBP right off the table by pulling straight out on the adapter. Seriously, if you're careful enough the Magsafe charger can support the entire weight of the laptop. Which means it's a great feature if I step on the cable (which pulls it downward) but if I trip on it and pull it straight out, it will always, every single time, always pull my laptop right off the table. Which makes it worse than worthless, remembering that when I use it on my lap it will constantly disconnect itself. I'm happy to see Magsafe go, I'm just not thrilled that it's not being replaced with something better.
kimshibal 10y ago
I have 6 dongles with my new MBP. It takes more space in my bag than MBP.
teilo 10y ago
Here is the interesting thing regarding Display Port: I am using an OWC Thunderbolt 2 Dock. I have my dock hooked up to using the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter. I am able to use my external 27" just fine. I have a DisplayPort cable plugged into the second Thunderbolt port on the dock. It's all working. This is reminiscent of the way the Thunderbolt Display behaves: You cannot plug a DisplayPort monitor directly into the Thunderbolt Display, but you can daisy-chain another Thunderbolt device to the Thunderbolt Display, and then plug a DisplayPort cable into the Thunderbolt device on the end of the chain, and then it works.
itbeho 10y ago
Wifi problems on a MBP again? For fuck's sake... I'll probably make do with what I have for a bit longer or find a 2015 refurb. Or go all bohemian and spin up linux on a chromebook.
- JoshGlazebrook 10y ago
  They actually reverted back to 2x2 MIMO for the wifi cards. The previous generation 13" had 3x3 MIMO (antennas), now the new one has 2x2 MIMO. So less theoretical maximum speed.
  - sn0v 10y ago
    Is there a benefit to reverting to 2x2?
- moonbug 10y ago
  > Or go all bohemian and spin up linux on a chromebook. Things really aren't quite that desperate yet.
huangc10 10y ago
This is a short article/solution regarding the ESC key problem: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key
jedberg 10y ago
The fact that I need a 3rd party adapter to connect my Apple branded monitor to my Apple branded laptop is patently ridiculous.
- freehunter 10y ago
  But I need an adapter to plug my Apple branded hockey puck mouse to my Apple branded laptop, too... we're talking two different hardware generations. Likely the reason they discontinued the Apple monitors is because they wouldn't work with the new MacBook.
  - jedberg 10y ago
    There's a big difference between breaking compatability with a $39 mouse vs a $1600 monitor that you could have bought a few months ago.
pyrophane 10y ago
I have noticed that window resizing is a bit laggy on this machine, especially in apps like iTunes. I wonder if that has to do with the decision to use Intel's HD graphics instead of the Iris Pro on the 15. The Radeon probably isn't going to get activated every time I need to resize a window with a few graphics on it. Also, I hope Apple fixes the palm rejection on the giant trackpad soon. I wind up accidentally activating Siri quite a lot. Otherwise, good machine.
Elizer0x0309 10y ago
Any serious developer worth his salt is not going to put up with the utter shit the new MB(P) are. I know they're catering to "media" types but for any engineer who also happens to be a 10x and well rounded, doing art, music and other fields will feel constrained. Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later. I've been using the MBP pro circa 2012 and upgrading/hacking the hardware. It's aging gracefully and next laptop will be a non-mbp which can run MacOs through VM. Price parity allows much more horsepower and modularity. New MBP, pretty but objectively silly.
- CountSessine 10y ago
  Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later. I don't think that this is a very good good laptop for media-youtuber types either. Just watch Casey Neistat's review of the new rMBP. He really wants to like it, but it's really clear from what he's saying that it's completely unsuited to his needs. In particular, the loss of the SD card slot is going to hurt anyone who uses pro camera equipment.
  - Elizer0x0309 10y ago
    Haha. Well color me surprised. Now I really don't know which target market they're trying to aim for, cause where I'm standing it's a net miss, aside from the millennial generation which isn't a bread winning one for the most part. Maybe I'm not seeing their big picture, but as far as I'm concerned, A net producer from technical to art, this machine is a fail.
    - CountSessine 10y ago
      I see no user's needs being a good subset of this machine's capabilities. It's just impractical. I have a 2012 rMBP and I'm thinking of upgrading to a refurb 2015 rMBP. I'd like to upgrade to the last good generation of MBP; it might be a while before Apple decides to start making good laptops again.
CountSessine 10y ago
What a train-wreck.
TekMol 10y ago
Jesus. My friends who use Apple computers always make fun of the "tech shit" that "dos users" like me have to deal with. And how Apple "just works". (Yeah, they say "Dos" when they mean "Linux". Because they think text on a screen equals DOS, the old terminal based OS by Microsoft). And now I read this: System Integrity Protection (SIP) was disabled ... csrutil status ... boot into the recovery mode... hold ⌘-R when booting ... open a terminal ...type csrutil enable and reboot ... DisplayPort-to-mDP2 cable to connect to the Thunderbolt 2 port ... get a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 dongle ... Thunderbolt 2 means 4 PCI Express 2.0 lanes with DisplayPort 1.2 ... Change the monitor to MST mode ... recover via HDMI ... Apple Digital AV Adapter ... HDMI instead of mDP2 ... third-party DisplayPort adapter ... And so on and so on. "Just works"?
kaypro 10y ago
I just got back from returning my 15" 2.6 i7 with Radeon 450. First time I've returned an Apple product ever. The build quality of the machine is superb. TouchID, display, keyboard and SSD are fantastic. There's something going on with the GPU's... I'm putting my money on the Intel HD but the framerate is extremely slow. Just scrolling a simple web page in Safari stutters considerably. I tried using gfxCardStatus to just use the Radeon with the same results. My 2013 MBP feels considerably faster. The trackpad misses clicks just often enough to be frustrating. The touch bar is annoying. I don't get it. Moving my fingers up to tap a button takes more effort than simply doing the same function from the trackpad. Not being able to have a volume down button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming. I actually like the new keyboard but the clicks are very loud... annoyingly so. Very jarring. It's really too bad since it's a well built machine. The form factor is perfect. I think software updates will fix a lot of these issues but all at once it's counter productive for me. I'll probably wait till a rev 2 model and update to a 2015 model for now. It's too bad you can't get a non touchbar model with the faster CPU's as well. If you're on the fence I'd wait a few months at least or grab a 2015 model.
- tolger 10y ago
  Excellent, concise review. Thank you. There are so many compromises with this machine, I am going to skip this generation.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- eridius 10y ago
  > Not being able to have a volume down button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming. Do you routinely change your volume by only one increment? Whenever I change my volume I have to tap up and down a few times to figure out the exact volume I want, and with the Touch Bar that's just one extra tap (tapping the < button gets you the volume up/down buttons).
  - kaypro 10y ago
ezarowny 10y ago
Never buy a first generation Apple product. I've personally learned that lesson.
awesomerobot 10y ago
A big caveat I have is that the SSD is soldered directly to the logic board. I've used a single Macbook for stretches of 4-5 years at points and I've had to pull out the HD when the logic board has died... seems really sad that I'd be tied to Apple's support in the event I need to access data to use on another machine when previously it was something I could solve in 15 minutes.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
fit2rule 10y ago
I'm using a mid-2014 rMBP now, and I love it - its a great machine, and I'm seriously content with it. But for work reasons, I'm upgrading to a new 2016 rMBP, and I'm a little hesitant .. the reason is, I'm a vi user. So I figure I'll get used to the difference in tactile response from the current ESC key to the Touchbar experience .. eventually. But what I've been thinking is that I'll just map CAPSLOCK to Escape, since I hardly ever use Caps for anything important. This sort of amuses me a little, since I've heard of folks doing this for years, when a real Escape key was available anyway .. but they did it for ergonomics reasons. So, I'm hoping I'll be able to live with that experience as a dedicated vi user. What I'd like to know - for you guys who are vi users and have a 2016-rMBP in front of you - is whether you think this is viable, or just not worth the hassle - i.e., just use the Touchbar escape and see how it goes. What do you think?
eruditely 10y ago
I'm sure you long-time mac users are a little disappointed with the current generation of macbook pros, but as a long time ubuntu-linux user, I feel that linux distro's have comprehensively fallen behind the times and am excited to be with everyone else and have a macbook pro. It's like when I had an android for a long time, and I actually thought androids were competitive, and then when I switched to an iPhone 6 it was an incredible difference, all things considered it was just a superior experience and phone. I had no idea that it was that much better, and was unsure how people ever talked about androids vs iPhones like they were even, I'd had an android for 4 generations. I'm assuming OSX vs linux distro's like ubuntu is the same thing. The sum of the little things must make you a lot more productive. I cant wait to be honest. I just need to decide, 13 inch vs 15. When you do everything 1-off, like different phones than every one else, different clothes, different hobbies, don't listen to mainstream music even if it's fun you really get left behind in life & it's a lonely affair. It was a nice change when one morning I woke up after a long time of running my life in a different direction than every one else that I got to hit traffic with every one else. "Oh, this is where every one is, thank god". I think it's a bad idea to do everything 1-off for some minor advantage in your head.
outworlder 10y ago
This is a bad time for Apple to screw up. PC laptops are finally catching up (HP Spectre, Dell XPS, Microsoft Surface, Razer Stealth, etc). Some are not only delivering good performance and build quality, but features that Apple doesn't even have (detachable Surface Book, 360 hinge, external GPUs). And at a much lower price point. I love OSX, but no OS is worth that much.
scottlamb 10y ago
Here are my caveats: 1. The keyboard. Not the Touch Bar; the rest of the keyboard. There isn't much travel and I'm afraid it will aggravate my RSI. I've tried pressing the keys more gently, but sometimes I'm too gentle and miss keystrokes. Pressing the right side of the caps lock key is unreliable even when I press it fairly firmly. And the right shift key has gotten stuck once already. I'll give it some more time to see if things improve, but RSI is a deal-breaker. I'm considering returning the laptop. 2. The battery life. It's nowhere near 10 hours when I'm doing development. I haven't been keeping close track but I'd say less than 5 and less than previous generations. I think they used a processor which is more efficient at idle and took away a lot of battery to make it thinner. It's maybe not more efficient when working, so the battery life is reduced if you use the processor more heavily than they've anticipated. 3. The Touch Bar. I'm sure I can make it work, but I would prefer to have a physical escape key for vim, especially given that the caps lock key is questionable too so that may be out as a substitute. 4. That going from 1 TiB of storage to 2 TiB of storage would cost another $800, and the SSD is not even replaceable later. I don't want to spend that much, so I have 1 TiB that I'm already close to with photos likely to push it over. I really wouldn't mind having a 512 MiB SSD and a 2 TiB hard drive, but that's not an option. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Apple Photos (or some other inexpensive product) had good support for auto-selecting part of the library to have on the SSD as a cache of full storage on a network/external/cloud drive. (I.e., one library that I could open up and add stuff to while disconnected, view some recent / starred / non-hidden photos while disconnected.) 5. 16 GiB of RAM rather than 32 GiB and not expandable. I gather this lost a three-way battle with battery life and thickness/weight. Most of these (#1, #2, #4, #5) are the negative consequences of Apple's anorexia. Having only USB-C ports isn't a problem for me. Losing MagSafe makes me a little sad—it has saved laptops for me—but I like the idea of being able to plug in just one cable to do everything. Those docks don't actually exist yet, but they will soon. In the meantime, I have the included power adapter, a USB-C to DisplayPort cable, and a portable USB-C to three-port USB-A + gigabit Ethernet hub. It'll do.
- eridius 10y ago
  #5 is Intel's fault. Apple going 32GiB would have a really hugely negative impact on battery life.
thadk 10y ago
I got my 15" MBP 2016 as one of the first as well. An important caveat when setting up your system is not to clone 10.12.1 from another system and expect no hiccups. I used an app called SuperDuper but this probably applies to CarbonCopyCloner as well. Essentially the image that is on the new Macs seems to have slightly custom drivers which did not make it into the 10.12.1 release. Either use the official (and somewhat slow) Migration Assistant/Time Machine or after you clone your drive from the old machine, make sure to use Recovery Mode/Cmd-R and reinstall the operating system from the recovery partition. For me, though it took several hours to install, it quietly retained all my data and resolved all issues I had been seeing with stock macOS 10.12.1.
halilim 10y ago
On a slightly unrelated note: aren't SSH keys meant to stay in the devices they are created, and you need to create new keys for new devices? Of course this is assuming that that SSH key was a private one.
chmaynard 10y ago
The signal-to-noise ratio on this thread is rapidly approaching zero. I read every comment and learned almost nothing.

265 points by lvh 10y ago

kbd 10y ago

Some people have also reported hours less battery life than advertised.

nilkn 10y ago
There are also issues with palm rejection on the supersized trackpads. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5e094c/users_are_reporting_trackpad_problems_on_their/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5e094c/users_are_rep...
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
this is one reason i'm staying with El Cap on my 2014 rMBP. I see where a lot of people are losing 10-20% battery. that's not insignificant.

baus 10y ago

The lack of DisplayPort support is significant. This requires buying new monitors? Which monitors does the MBP support?

sandipc 10y ago
One of these should work fine http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908
nicky0 10y ago
It supports DisplayPort but not with a Thunderbolt 2 adapter
- baus 10y ago
  Ok, so I'm confused. Why would you want to use DP with ThunderBolt 2? Is this only for 4k monitors?
  - lvh 10y ago
    Thunderbolt normally supports multiple protocols over the same plug/cable. The Thunderbolt 2 port on my old MBP is where you plug in the monitor. Thunderbolt 2 matters, because that comes with DisplayPort 1.2 support, which is necessary for 4k@60Hz.

revelation 10y ago

He has a brand new display (which in displays, is <5 years) and was going to connect it through a triple chain of dongles and adapters? Display <> DisplayPort-to-mDP2 <> TB 3 to 2 <> USB-C to TB 3 <> MacBook What is going on?

mikeash 10y ago
It would just be a single cable plus an adapter. The monitor cable has DP on one end and mini-DP on the other end. Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB-C connector and is what the ports on the MacBook are. So it's: Display -> DP to mini-DP cable -> TB2 to TB3 -> MacBook. Or, one extra step than the old MacBook needed, if only it actually worked.
- lvh 10y ago
  Just wanted to confirm that you are correct :) The AppleCare support people suggested I had "too many dongles" -- cheekily, I agree; I would be very happy with zero!
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Since USB-C does DisplayPort directly, can you use a cable that has USB-C on one end and DP on the other end? Or is DP over USB-C sufficiently different that you need some sort of active adapter?
benvds 10y ago
I've been a mac user for 12 years, have my current retina macbook for 4 years, consider myself a pro user and want to buy a new "mobile computer". I'm no longer considering buying an apple macbook. OS X is great but with these prices I can no longer validate it's value anymore and looking into buying an xps.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  I would love to see Dell publish some XPS figures before and after the new MBP announcement. I see a lot of people say they're considering one.

mikeash 10y ago

Not supporting DisplayPort with an adapter is just insane. Apple's new top-end laptop is incompatible with the most common way to connect external monitors? I've been willing to give Apple and the new MBP the benefit of the doubt on this stuff, and in particular I don't mind that it needs dongles now if that means we get universal USB-C adoption faster. But the dongles need to actually exist and work now!

stormbrew 10y ago
My understanding is that it's specifically the thunderbolt-2 adapter that doesn't support further adapting to other alternate mode mechanisms. This might be because of incompatibilities between TB2 and TB3/USB3.1 alternate mode implementations? It doesn't mean it can't do DP over a specific type-c to DP cable/dongle, which presumably are or will be a thing (eg: https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_cable https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...). The author appears to want to wait for docks that do both DP and power delivery, if I understand correctly.
- lvh 10y ago
  You're correct on both counts: Apple suggested I purchased such a dongle. Unfortunately, as per the post, that's not easy; most USB-C devices currently available don't work. I'm holding out specifically for rMBP2016-compatible devices; and it seems a little silly not to wait for a dock now and get the tempting one-cable experience.
- rayiner 10y ago
  There are USB-C to DisplayPort cables. You need some sort of converting cable anyway--the old MBP had Mini DisplayPort and I've never seen a monitor with a MiniDP input.
  - lvh 10y ago
    (Author here) The Dell P2515Q I have has both DisplayPort and mDP2 in and out (for chaining).

Bytes 10y ago

The problems with the new macbook "pro" seem to keep on growing. I am really surprised that Apple did not find the connecting to external display issue in internal testing.

dom0 10y ago
I'm somewhat surprised by the whole touch bar thing, other manufacturers (e.g. Lenovo on the X1) tried it before and use acceptance was miserable.
- Caballera 10y ago
  It's actually a nice to have feature, but at least not yet, not a must have. Just having Touch ID makes it worth it to me.
- nilkn 10y ago
  I picked up a new MBP and I have to say I do like the Touch Bar. It's certainly not a must-have, but Apple's implementation is pretty polished. My favorite use is music/volume control. I can control music from both iTunes and a buried YouTube Safari tab at the same time through the Touch Bar.
  - izacus 10y ago
    How is that different from pressing Fn + F keys before?
    - nilkn 10y ago
      I'm not sure which key combinations specifically you're referring to. How would I use the old function keys to switch music playing from iTunes to a paused YouTube tab in a Safari window on another desktop? And how would I use the function keys to scrub through a song to find a specific part all without giving focus to the music playing app? Maybe all this was possible before but I never knew about any of it. If that's the case that's another strength of the touch bar -- I had no issue discovering this functionality this time.

Tom1971 10y ago

While, over time, a lot of today's annoyances with the new Macabook's will fade away, the lack of ESC key is a deal breaker for me. I tried it at the Apple Store and it's pretty much unusable. (It had the seen issue as the writer, apparently relying on the physical click to know whether or not I had pressed it. In addition, I also mistyped it a lot. Maybe hack to replace the whole touch bar as one single ESC key will do it...) I've been told to remap the ESC to CAPS LOCK to vim usage, but I seem to be one of a rare breed who uses the latter the way it was intended to be, so that's a no go for me.

nilkn 10y ago
Following the lead of Spacemacs I remapped Esc in vim to "fd". It works surprisingly well and is extremely easy and fast to type.
- randlet 10y ago
  I use jk to exit from insert mode, but you still need an escape key to cancel actions when entering commands. For example if I type :wq and decide I actually don't want to quit, I still need to hit Esc to cancel. It would be nice if :wqjk (or :wqfd) would allow you to cancel but I don't think that's possible is it?
  - shadytrees 10y ago
    very possible! :cnoremap jk <C-C>
    - randlet 10y ago
      Whoo! Thank you very much!
Caballera 10y ago
The escape key is still there, it's on the Touch Bar, I have no issues with using it, and I haven't had to re-map it. Also you can hit the 'fn' key and the 'Function' bar and escape key will appear while using any other 'app' that changes the Touch Bar.

otterley 10y ago

We bought a 15" 2016 Macbook Pro ("Retina" is redundant; there are no 2016 MBPs that lack a Retina display.) We also bought a LG 27UD88-W monitor to go with it. (It's one of the few that has a USB-C input.) I have to say, I'm really impressed by the single-cable solution. The monitor charges the laptop (57W maximum, which is less than the Apple charger, but "good enough"), and the laptop sends both video and USB peripheral connections to the monitor, which acts as a USB 3.0 hub. One cable. It's kind of amazing and magical if you think about it. There are some rough edges, though: (1) Sometimes the computer reports that it's not charging. Sometimes it does. We don't know why just yet. We can always connect the Apple-supplied charger though. (2) When the display goes to sleep, it disconnects all the devices on the hub. This is a problem for external disks, as the OS complains that it has been detached without being ejected first. I hope LG fixes this in a future firmware version. (3) We can't use the Apple-supplied USB charging cable to connect the laptop to the display. The connectors are the same, but.. it just doesn't work. As a technical person, I understand why; but it's going to be unnecessarily confusing to people if two cables that look alike don't act alike. This is going to raise technical support costs greatly until all USB-C cables are capable of all transports and functions and the old ones are phased out. Why Apple didn't ship a fully-capable cable in the box is puzzling to me.

Siecje 10y ago
Why doesn't the Apple-supplied USB charging cable work?
- cpmsmith 10y ago
  Not all USB-C connectors are created equal. Something with that connector can support or not support a number of protocols, e.g. USB, Thunderbolt 3, USB-C power throughput, etc.
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    In this case, the cable used with the monitor needs to be a Thunderbolt 3 cable, not just a USB-C cable. I haven't seen a teardown of the new ones, but at least for the previous generation there's a bit more to it than your average cable. https://www.wired.com/2011/06/thunderbolt-cable-teardown-reveals-enough-chips-to-make-a-computer/ https://www.wired.com/2011/06/thunderbolt-cable-teardown-rev... Thunderbolt 2 had the same compatibility issue in that it was the same connector as Mini DisplayPort but couldn't run over a standard DP cable. That was pretty minor since it's not like everyone has a pile of loose DP cables sitting around. On the other hand, your average consumer never uses a Thunderbolt device to begin with on account of them being significantly more expensive than other accessories. They'll likely never run into this even with it using a USB-like cable, and the people who do need TB will figure it out.

cygned 10y ago

The first time I plugged in a hub with power and HDMI, I got a kernel panic and the MacBook's keyboard did not work after the first reboot. I was a bit scared.

hackcrafter 10y ago
Crap! Did it start working after the first time?
- cygned 10y ago
  Yes, I had to reboot again and everything worked fine.

Alex3917 10y ago

The best thing I've seen so far is reports of the touchbar getting stuck on the screen: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touchbar_just_moved_to_the_screen_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touc...

perfmode 10y ago

Right now is a great time to score a 2015 model. Doesn't make sense to buy a new MacBook Pro until a 32 GB option is available imho.

toodlebunions 10y ago
Agreed completely
TheDrizzle43 10y ago
Before it was announced I was 100% sure going to grab a new MacBook Pro but now I find myself looking at refurbished 2015 models.
- Kiro 10y ago
  Why not the 2016 model without TouchBar?
  - r-s 10y ago
    Does not come in 15 inch.
    - fancy_pantser 10y ago
      Sure it does: http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2L...
      - fgandiya 10y ago
        That's the 2015 version.
      - citruspi 10y ago
        If you look at the product code in the link (MJLQ2LL) and check it against the list of MacBook Pro models[0], you'll see that it's a 2015 model. There aren't any 15" 2016 models without a touch bar. [0]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300

rayiner 10y ago

The execution failures are just unacceptable for such an expensive product. The Surface Book was half baked at launch, but at least Microsoft has the excuse that Skylake was bleeding edge at that time. Apple is dealing with a mature stack here.

api 10y ago

This is starting to sound like the Windows Vista of Macs. :(

asragab 10y ago

I really appreciated the no nonsense, non-editorialized description of his experiences. Given the recent political climate, it is a nice change of pace. The external monitor and wifi issues seem egregious, could these be OS related issues?

lvh 10y ago
Thanks! My understanding is that the TB2/3 dongle issue is a hardware limitation; although I'm hopeful the WiFi issues with older USB-C devices will go away.
illumin8 10y ago
From what I've heard, many USB3 interfaces have been causing Wifi and Bluetooth reception problems for a few years now. This is due to electromagnetic interference in the 2.4ghz. spectrum. I wouldn't expect a high-end Apple product to have this issue though; this is the type of problem you expect from cheap beige box PCs.
- rickyc091 10y ago
  I can confirm that my wifi goes out with certain USB 3.0 hubs as well on my 2013 MBP.
- mamon 10y ago
  How about using Wi-Fi in 5 GHz channel ? Should solve the issue, shouldn't it ?
  - illumin8 10y ago
    You're right, it should solve the issue, however, there are a couple things at play: 1. If you have a newer wifi AP that supports 5ghz, it might allow you to create a separate SSID for 5ghz, which is great, because now you can specify which network you want to connect to, and can choose the 5ghz. band to avoid this interference. Some routers don't let you specify, and use the same SSID for both bands, which means you can't really tell what you're connecting to. 2. Unfortunately, 5ghz. has a shorter range, so it will be less reliable in large houses, or where coverage is weak.

ProAm 10y ago

It just works...

heisenbit 10y ago

Ouch, does that mean my Thunderbolt display is of no use in the future? Any idea how to continue to use it?

pilif 10y ago
If it's a Thunderbolt display, it'll work. If it's a Mini DisplayPort display (which uses the exact same connector as Thunderbolt), then it won't work.

andrewfromx 10y ago

fyi Control-C = Esc in vim. So the new mac without real esc key just means leaning to do control-c vs. esc if u can't stand the virtual esc key.

cygned 10y ago
<C-c> and <Esc> is not 100% the same because the former sends a signal and other details. Because I like to use <C-c> too, I have just remapped it to <Esc> in all modes.
amelius 10y ago
Can't you just map another key to Esc, like with xmodmap or its OSX equivalent?

Rezo 10y ago

If you're used to the Mac's "force app to quit" Command-Option-Esc shortcut, it won't work from the touchbar if the app is unresponsive: https://twitter.com/technosucks/status/800831482608484352 https://twitter.com/technosucks/status/800831482608484352 "You might not be able to use the Esc button in the Touch Bar if the app you're using becomes unresponsive." https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358 Fortunately you can still force the Mac to shut down with the Touch ID button after it locks up.

adamio 10y ago
"If you need to use Esc to force an app to close, you can switch to another app and try Option-Command-Escape. You can also choose Apple menu > Force Quit." https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT207358
- diggan 10y ago
  Heh, that makes me think about Finder that is always open. What if Finder is the only app you have open, and it hangs?
  - kilburn 10y ago
    Cmd+space (spotlight) -> calculator (or whatever) and then force-quit finder :p
    - r00fus 10y ago
      It'd be nice if Apple had an app simply called Force Quit :)
      - matt4077 10y ago
        Click the apple in the top left corner -> Force Quit.
        10y ago

ChuckMcM 10y ago

"Most dongles don't work" was what killed it for me, after reading several reports that it was really hard to hook up anything reliably to the USB-C ports given the churn in the dongle market I decided to skip this generation and go for the next rev.

slantyyz 10y ago
>> after reading several reports We HN users are fortunate to be "in the know" about these issues, because we keep up with this information. Can you imagine how the out of the box experience would feel like for less-informed early buyers of the new MBP who find out about these issues post purchase? I get the impression it's going to hurt the "everything just works" reputation that Macs have had for the longest time.
- matt4077 10y ago
  "Several" isn't really a reliable number. I know of three people with new MBPs, and none of them are experiencing any of these issues.

rocky1138 10y ago

Wi-fi going down when you plug in an external device is completely unacceptable.

kaizensoze 10y ago
This isn't anything new. It's a well established fact that USB 3.0 interferes with 2.4 Ghz Wi-Fi. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-ser...
- mconzen 10y ago
  The PC Mag link claims that this is alleviated on routers with shielded USB 3.0 ports while using shielded cables. Are the ports unshielded on the new Macbooks, or are the people reporting the issue using unshielded cables? Is Apple shipping these with unshielded cables?
amckinlay 10y ago
Bluetooth, too. I can't use a Bluetooth LE mouse with my MacBook or the Wi-Fi dies and the mouse skips all over the screen. Useless.

toodlebunions 10y ago

This is sounding like the least appealing MacBook "Pro" ever made.

city41 10y ago
And the iPhone 7 is the least interesting iPhone upgrade ever IMO. I'm pretty disinterested in Apple right now.

asd 10y ago

I have a fully loaded 15" arriving on Monday. If I cannot connect it to my beloved Dell P2715Q at 4K@60hz, I'm sending it back. This is clownstickery at its finest.

lvh 10y ago
Hopefully I can save you some frustration. If you got the TB2 dongle, it won't work. Apple suggests you purchase a third party DisplayPort dongle. Make sure it's DisplayPort 1.2 (that's what lets you do 4k@60Hz). No advice on what to buy though; except check the reviews to make sure it works on the 2016 MBP! (_NOT_ the MacBook! Compatibility with the MacBook means nothing.)
- asd 10y ago
  Thanks. @sandipc above linked to this[1] monoprice cable, but it's out of stock with no ETA. :( I'll keep looking. [1] http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12908
  - cmenke 10y ago
    This one should work as well: https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_cable https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_displayport_c...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - njitram 10y ago
    This one might work: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QO8186 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QO8186
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

rebootthesystem 10y ago

It is starting to feel like the "Pro" is actually more of a consumer toy for gaming and messing with Facebook rather than a real professional machine. I need to buy a new laptop today. For development, not to play games. The unix underpinning of MacOS always made their machines attractive, expensive, but attractive nonetheless. I'll go visit the Apple store and see but it is starting to look like it'll be a waste of time. It looks like I'll make a detour over to Best Buy and get one of the high end HP laptops with 17 inch screen, full keyboard, lots of ports, etc. I can then install VMWare Workstation with Ubuntu Desktop. Add another couple of VM with Ubuntu Server, run them all at once in a virtual network to simulate application and DB servers and develop on Linux. Done deal. Probably half the money. With what's left over I can go buy that TIG welder I've been eyeballing.

prh8 10y ago
If you're heading to Best Buy, what about a 2015 MPB? I would assume that like previous releases, they continue to sell the older model at a cheaper price.
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
  I'll look at everything. Thanks.
xienze 10y ago
Unless you absolutely need the laptop today, don't get something from BB. They're really not known for selling quality PC laptops. Go online and get something like an XPS or Thinkpad.
- tolger 10y ago
  It depends on the laptop. I've seen Dell XPS-13 and XPS-15 on sale at BB. Both of which are excellent.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
10y ago

MitjaBezensek 10y ago

A few other problems I came across: 1. Battery life is much lower than specified: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/battery-life-for-13-and-15-macbook-pro.2015074/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/battery-life-for-13-and-... 2. Some users report graphic card problems: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pool-do-you-have-graphic-card-issue-on-new-2016-15.2016743/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pool-do-you-have-graphic... Here is how it looks like: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-freaks-out-with-brand-new-mbp-2016.2015545/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/graphic-card-freaks-out-... 3. TouchBar graphics sometimes display on the screen instead of on the TouchBar: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touchbar_just_moved_to_the_screen_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5eap94/someones_touc...

rayiner 10y ago
I wonder how much of the battery life issue is that the new one has a much brighter backlight. Half brightness should get you about 250 nits on the new one, versus 150 nits on the old one. Tests that calibrate to an actual brightness level rather than a given brightness setting don't seem to show worse battery life.
- MitjaBezensek 10y ago
  The users used the same settings brightness settings as Apple on their benchmarks (75% brightness) just to be sure. But the observed battery life was often half that of the official one.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    75% brightness on a 500 nit display is insane. Did the previous generation specify 75% brightness setting for the wireless web test? Typical indoor tests are conducted at 100-200 nits.
Rezo 10y ago
The 2015 13" Pro has a 74.9-watt-hour battery. The 2016 13" non-Touch Bar Pro has a 54.5-watt-hour battery. The 2016 13" Touch Bar Pro has a 49.2-watt-hour-battery! The components in the 2016 models are more power efficient. But at some point you'll run into physics. Apple may claim the battery life is the same as before when watching a movie (probably entirely HW accelerator offloaded by now), but if you're compiling code all day I wouldn't expect the new laptop to match the previous battery life based on the raw numbers alone.

Mister_Snuggles 10y ago

I had a similar problem with failing WiFi on my mid-2010 MacBook Pro. When I used a third-party MiniDisplayPort to DVI adapter, wireless would not work. When I used the Apple adapter, it worked fine. Interestingly enough, I found that under some circumstances the 3rd-party adapter will work fine. My working theory is that it doesn't have as much shielding as the Apple adapter and puts out just enough interference to clobber my WiFi signal when I'm far enough away from the access point. Maybe this is the same issue?

adjkant 10y ago

I still can't believe Magsafe is gone. I swear I save a Mac every month via Magsafe and worry about when I have to upgrade in a few years. They better release a clean version of this by then.

freehunter 10y ago
I've actually had a problem with Magsafe. When I'm using my laptop on my lap, my leg pushes up on the adapter, which causes it to disconnect very easily. But I can lift my 13" 2015 rMBP right off the table by pulling straight out on the adapter. Seriously, if you're careful enough the Magsafe charger can support the entire weight of the laptop. Which means it's a great feature if I step on the cable (which pulls it downward) but if I trip on it and pull it straight out, it will always, every single time, always pull my laptop right off the table. Which makes it worse than worthless, remembering that when I use it on my lap it will constantly disconnect itself. I'm happy to see Magsafe go, I'm just not thrilled that it's not being replaced with something better.

kimshibal 10y ago

I have 6 dongles with my new MBP. It takes more space in my bag than MBP.

teilo 10y ago

Here is the interesting thing regarding Display Port: I am using an OWC Thunderbolt 2 Dock. I have my dock hooked up to using the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter. I am able to use my external 27" just fine. I have a DisplayPort cable plugged into the second Thunderbolt port on the dock. It's all working. This is reminiscent of the way the Thunderbolt Display behaves: You cannot plug a DisplayPort monitor directly into the Thunderbolt Display, but you can daisy-chain another Thunderbolt device to the Thunderbolt Display, and then plug a DisplayPort cable into the Thunderbolt device on the end of the chain, and then it works.

itbeho 10y ago

Wifi problems on a MBP again? For fuck's sake... I'll probably make do with what I have for a bit longer or find a 2015 refurb. Or go all bohemian and spin up linux on a chromebook.

JoshGlazebrook 10y ago
They actually reverted back to 2x2 MIMO for the wifi cards. The previous generation 13" had 3x3 MIMO (antennas), now the new one has 2x2 MIMO. So less theoretical maximum speed.
- sn0v 10y ago
  Is there a benefit to reverting to 2x2?
moonbug 10y ago
> Or go all bohemian and spin up linux on a chromebook. Things really aren't quite that desperate yet.

huangc10 10y ago

This is a short article/solution regarding the ESC key problem: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key

jedberg 10y ago

The fact that I need a 3rd party adapter to connect my Apple branded monitor to my Apple branded laptop is patently ridiculous.

freehunter 10y ago
But I need an adapter to plug my Apple branded hockey puck mouse to my Apple branded laptop, too... we're talking two different hardware generations. Likely the reason they discontinued the Apple monitors is because they wouldn't work with the new MacBook.
- jedberg 10y ago
  There's a big difference between breaking compatability with a $39 mouse vs a $1600 monitor that you could have bought a few months ago.

pyrophane 10y ago

I have noticed that window resizing is a bit laggy on this machine, especially in apps like iTunes. I wonder if that has to do with the decision to use Intel's HD graphics instead of the Iris Pro on the 15. The Radeon probably isn't going to get activated every time I need to resize a window with a few graphics on it. Also, I hope Apple fixes the palm rejection on the giant trackpad soon. I wind up accidentally activating Siri quite a lot. Otherwise, good machine.

Elizer0x0309 10y ago

Any serious developer worth his salt is not going to put up with the utter shit the new MB(P) are. I know they're catering to "media" types but for any engineer who also happens to be a 10x and well rounded, doing art, music and other fields will feel constrained. Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later. I've been using the MBP pro circa 2012 and upgrading/hacking the hardware. It's aging gracefully and next laptop will be a non-mbp which can run MacOs through VM. Price parity allows much more horsepower and modularity. New MBP, pretty but objectively silly.

CountSessine 10y ago
Apple has left the golden middle ground a long time ago and is going after the "media" types only. News flash: the margins in those youtubers-sectors are very low, hence the spending will dry sooner rather then later. I don't think that this is a very good good laptop for media-youtuber types either. Just watch Casey Neistat's review of the new rMBP. He really wants to like it, but it's really clear from what he's saying that it's completely unsuited to his needs. In particular, the loss of the SD card slot is going to hurt anyone who uses pro camera equipment.
- Elizer0x0309 10y ago
  Haha. Well color me surprised. Now I really don't know which target market they're trying to aim for, cause where I'm standing it's a net miss, aside from the millennial generation which isn't a bread winning one for the most part. Maybe I'm not seeing their big picture, but as far as I'm concerned, A net producer from technical to art, this machine is a fail.
  - CountSessine 10y ago
    I see no user's needs being a good subset of this machine's capabilities. It's just impractical. I have a 2012 rMBP and I'm thinking of upgrading to a refurb 2015 rMBP. I'd like to upgrade to the last good generation of MBP; it might be a while before Apple decides to start making good laptops again.

CountSessine 10y ago

What a train-wreck.

TekMol 10y ago

Jesus. My friends who use Apple computers always make fun of the "tech shit" that "dos users" like me have to deal with. And how Apple "just works". (Yeah, they say "Dos" when they mean "Linux". Because they think text on a screen equals DOS, the old terminal based OS by Microsoft). And now I read this: System Integrity Protection (SIP) was disabled ... csrutil status ... boot into the recovery mode... hold ⌘-R when booting ... open a terminal ...type csrutil enable and reboot ... DisplayPort-to-mDP2 cable to connect to the Thunderbolt 2 port ... get a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 dongle ... Thunderbolt 2 means 4 PCI Express 2.0 lanes with DisplayPort 1.2 ... Change the monitor to MST mode ... recover via HDMI ... Apple Digital AV Adapter ... HDMI instead of mDP2 ... third-party DisplayPort adapter ... And so on and so on. "Just works"?

kaypro 10y ago

I just got back from returning my 15" 2.6 i7 with Radeon 450. First time I've returned an Apple product ever. The build quality of the machine is superb. TouchID, display, keyboard and SSD are fantastic. There's something going on with the GPU's... I'm putting my money on the Intel HD but the framerate is extremely slow. Just scrolling a simple web page in Safari stutters considerably. I tried using gfxCardStatus to just use the Radeon with the same results. My 2013 MBP feels considerably faster. The trackpad misses clicks just often enough to be frustrating. The touch bar is annoying. I don't get it. Moving my fingers up to tap a button takes more effort than simply doing the same function from the trackpad. Not being able to have a volume down button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming. I actually like the new keyboard but the clicks are very loud... annoyingly so. Very jarring. It's really too bad since it's a well built machine. The form factor is perfect. I think software updates will fix a lot of these issues but all at once it's counter productive for me. I'll probably wait till a rev 2 model and update to a 2015 model for now. It's too bad you can't get a non touchbar model with the faster CPU's as well. If you're on the fence I'd wait a few months at least or grab a 2015 model.

tolger 10y ago
Excellent, concise review. Thank you. There are so many compromises with this machine, I am going to skip this generation.
- deleted 10y ago
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eridius 10y ago
> Not being able to have a volume down button in the control strip makes reducing the volume more time consuming. Do you routinely change your volume by only one increment? Whenever I change my volume I have to tap up and down a few times to figure out the exact volume I want, and with the Touch Bar that's just one extra tap (tapping the < button gets you the volume up/down buttons).
- kaypro 10y ago

ezarowny 10y ago

Never buy a first generation Apple product. I've personally learned that lesson.

awesomerobot 10y ago

A big caveat I have is that the SSD is soldered directly to the logic board. I've used a single Macbook for stretches of 4-5 years at points and I've had to pull out the HD when the logic board has died... seems really sad that I'd be tied to Apple's support in the event I need to access data to use on another machine when previously it was something I could solve in 15 minutes.

deleted 10y ago
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fit2rule 10y ago

I'm using a mid-2014 rMBP now, and I love it - its a great machine, and I'm seriously content with it. But for work reasons, I'm upgrading to a new 2016 rMBP, and I'm a little hesitant .. the reason is, I'm a vi user. So I figure I'll get used to the difference in tactile response from the current ESC key to the Touchbar experience .. eventually. But what I've been thinking is that I'll just map CAPSLOCK to Escape, since I hardly ever use Caps for anything important. This sort of amuses me a little, since I've heard of folks doing this for years, when a real Escape key was available anyway .. but they did it for ergonomics reasons. So, I'm hoping I'll be able to live with that experience as a dedicated vi user. What I'd like to know - for you guys who are vi users and have a 2016-rMBP in front of you - is whether you think this is viable, or just not worth the hassle - i.e., just use the Touchbar escape and see how it goes. What do you think?

eruditely 10y ago

I'm sure you long-time mac users are a little disappointed with the current generation of macbook pros, but as a long time ubuntu-linux user, I feel that linux distro's have comprehensively fallen behind the times and am excited to be with everyone else and have a macbook pro. It's like when I had an android for a long time, and I actually thought androids were competitive, and then when I switched to an iPhone 6 it was an incredible difference, all things considered it was just a superior experience and phone. I had no idea that it was that much better, and was unsure how people ever talked about androids vs iPhones like they were even, I'd had an android for 4 generations. I'm assuming OSX vs linux distro's like ubuntu is the same thing. The sum of the little things must make you a lot more productive. I cant wait to be honest. I just need to decide, 13 inch vs 15. When you do everything 1-off, like different phones than every one else, different clothes, different hobbies, don't listen to mainstream music even if it's fun you really get left behind in life & it's a lonely affair. It was a nice change when one morning I woke up after a long time of running my life in a different direction than every one else that I got to hit traffic with every one else. "Oh, this is where every one is, thank god". I think it's a bad idea to do everything 1-off for some minor advantage in your head.

outworlder 10y ago

This is a bad time for Apple to screw up. PC laptops are finally catching up (HP Spectre, Dell XPS, Microsoft Surface, Razer Stealth, etc). Some are not only delivering good performance and build quality, but features that Apple doesn't even have (detachable Surface Book, 360 hinge, external GPUs). And at a much lower price point. I love OSX, but no OS is worth that much.

scottlamb 10y ago

Here are my caveats: 1. The keyboard. Not the Touch Bar; the rest of the keyboard. There isn't much travel and I'm afraid it will aggravate my RSI. I've tried pressing the keys more gently, but sometimes I'm too gentle and miss keystrokes. Pressing the right side of the caps lock key is unreliable even when I press it fairly firmly. And the right shift key has gotten stuck once already. I'll give it some more time to see if things improve, but RSI is a deal-breaker. I'm considering returning the laptop. 2. The battery life. It's nowhere near 10 hours when I'm doing development. I haven't been keeping close track but I'd say less than 5 and less than previous generations. I think they used a processor which is more efficient at idle and took away a lot of battery to make it thinner. It's maybe not more efficient when working, so the battery life is reduced if you use the processor more heavily than they've anticipated. 3. The Touch Bar. I'm sure I can make it work, but I would prefer to have a physical escape key for vim, especially given that the caps lock key is questionable too so that may be out as a substitute. 4. That going from 1 TiB of storage to 2 TiB of storage would cost another $800, and the SSD is not even replaceable later. I don't want to spend that much, so I have 1 TiB that I'm already close to with photos likely to push it over. I really wouldn't mind having a 512 MiB SSD and a 2 TiB hard drive, but that's not an option. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Apple Photos (or some other inexpensive product) had good support for auto-selecting part of the library to have on the SSD as a cache of full storage on a network/external/cloud drive. (I.e., one library that I could open up and add stuff to while disconnected, view some recent / starred / non-hidden photos while disconnected.) 5. 16 GiB of RAM rather than 32 GiB and not expandable. I gather this lost a three-way battle with battery life and thickness/weight. Most of these (#1, #2, #4, #5) are the negative consequences of Apple's anorexia. Having only USB-C ports isn't a problem for me. Losing MagSafe makes me a little sad—it has saved laptops for me—but I like the idea of being able to plug in just one cable to do everything. Those docks don't actually exist yet, but they will soon. In the meantime, I have the included power adapter, a USB-C to DisplayPort cable, and a portable USB-C to three-port USB-A + gigabit Ethernet hub. It'll do.

eridius 10y ago
#5 is Intel's fault. Apple going 32GiB would have a really hugely negative impact on battery life.

thadk 10y ago

I got my 15" MBP 2016 as one of the first as well. An important caveat when setting up your system is not to clone 10.12.1 from another system and expect no hiccups. I used an app called SuperDuper but this probably applies to CarbonCopyCloner as well. Essentially the image that is on the new Macs seems to have slightly custom drivers which did not make it into the 10.12.1 release. Either use the official (and somewhat slow) Migration Assistant/Time Machine or after you clone your drive from the old machine, make sure to use Recovery Mode/Cmd-R and reinstall the operating system from the recovery partition. For me, though it took several hours to install, it quietly retained all my data and resolved all issues I had been seeing with stock macOS 10.12.1.

halilim 10y ago

On a slightly unrelated note: aren't SSH keys meant to stay in the devices they are created, and you need to create new keys for new devices? Of course this is assuming that that SSH key was a private one.

chmaynard 10y ago

The signal-to-noise ratio on this thread is rapidly approaching zero. I read every comment and learned almost nothing.