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Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers

• redial 10y ago
  This is the way the world (of Apple) ends, not with a bang but with a whimper. One for each unit that turns off the lights...
  • tronje 10y ago
    Is it really? Apple makes some wildly successful products, and will apparently put more focus on those. Seems fine. I personally found out that Apple makes (made) routers through this post, so maybe they're not a huge deal.
    • raesene6 10y ago
      I think there's two possible problems with their strategy 1) ecosystem. the more co-operating products you have, the more likely you are to keep people in your ecosystem. There's been quite a few posts here about people who are/were "all apple". That only works when Apple produce a wide enough range of products. As they shrink, there's a greater risk of more people going to other ecosystems. 2) "all your eggs in one basket". Obviously Apple are focusing on iOS devices and rightly so they're massively profitable. However focusing in one place leaves you at risk if that product line declines and you can't diversify fast enough. Tech. history is littered with examples of this like Blackberry.
  • fsloth 10y ago
    I'm not so sure about that. AirPorts worked really nicely when consumer Wifi stations were rather hit-and-miss than foolproof (anecdotally). Now wireless stations are bundled with all sorts of broadband service accounts, and given Apple's market share, are probably pretty much expected to "just work" with their hardware. Aren't wireless routers now just a commodity that incorporates very little chances to add actually value adding features?
    • TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
      It's about the ecosystem. in fact, it's about the perception of the ecosystem. All of the changes - decaying Mac Pro, mediocre gimmicky MBP, end of this, end of that, confusion over Titan, Watch, which no one cares about - all suggest that Apple has lost the concept of brand and product synergy. It looks trivial but it's actually fatal, because it undermines the perception that when you buy Apple you're buying Special. Now you're just buying. And when a company is selling overpriced commodity hardware, it absolutely needs to convince its customers that it's offering more than that.
  • kalleboo 10y ago
    When Steve Jobs came back, he killed off a bunch of accessories - printers, cameras, Newton, etc etc. Apple isn't in dire straits as they were them, but just like how back then their printers and cameras weren't innovative, neither are their routers now Killing off accessories is fine. But if they're not focusing on that anymore, and no new Macs in ages, what the hell ARE they focusing on?
    • uptown 10y ago
      iPhones, watch bands, $300 books and iPhones. Oh, and also iPhones.
      • kalleboo 10y ago
        Yeah the book thing kind of ruins any supportive argument doesn't it
        • mi100hael 10y ago
          To be fair, I'm sure the margins on a $300 book are much better than the margins on a $200 piece of electronics.
        • lostapathy 10y ago
          The book is probably a case of somebody working on it to make a handful of copies to satisfy somebody's ego. Selling more copies is just gravy.
      • remir 10y ago
        Don't forget iPad Pros! Yep, we're all gonna replace our computers with iPads! The Post-PC era is here folks!
    • tdkl 10y ago
      Dongles.
      • newscracker 10y ago
• post_break 10y ago
  Displays, wireless routers, next headless macs?
  • harryh 10y ago
    Don't scare me with that prediction! I <3 my Mac mini!
    • spiderfarmer 10y ago
      The last good Mac Mini is from 2012, so the Mac Mini is even more neglected than the Mac Pro. If they ever release a new Mac Mini, it will probably be their last.
      • harryh 10y ago
        That isn't making me feel any better! Nor is your username spiderfarmer.
        • newscracker 10y ago
          Sadly, that's the truth. I have a Mac mini from 2007 that's still going good, but I didn't feel that the 2012 model would be a good replacement when it came out. The 2014 model was a disaster beyond that (down to dual core, no more user upgradable RAM or HDD). Short of a miracle, the Mac Mini is dead or will be updated with something even worse than the outdated and expensive model still on sale.
          • spiderfarmer 10y ago
            It honestly makes me wonder if I should stick with Apple. Every product I loved apart from the iPad, iPhone and Macbook Pro has been cancelled or ignored and these 3 remaining products are updated with such small increments that I don't think Apple is leading us into the future of computing.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• gchokov 10y ago
  That's just too sad. I was thinking recently how my 3 year old AirPort express was the best router I've owned. These routers were always super easy to configure and I remember maybe one reboot in its lifetime... it powers: 2 MBP pros; 2 iPhones 1 Apple TV 1 Roomba 980 cleaning bot 1 Footbot - Air quality monitoring 1 Apple Watch 1 Sony PS4 ... everything working flawlessly Sad day for me.
  • nashashmi 10y ago
    Surprising you found them stable. I have another router to be the best of the best: Asus Dark Knight (pricey). Try giving it a try. I must have gone through 6 budget routers before splurging on this one. Two restarts in 6 years.
    • gchokov 10y ago
      Thanks for the recommendations as well. Looks like guys above also recommend Asus devices!
  • baldfat 10y ago
    You would be shocked at how good an ASUS router is comparably. I always have people tell me I have over killed my houses wifi but the speed are awesome and I own a home built in 1894 and has plaster walls. I don't understand how a router can be simpler then just typing in the password unless your trying to accomplish something more complex.
    • izacus 10y ago
      Yup, my ASUS-AC66U can do 600-700Mbit/s over air which is pretty impresssive and a bit better than what airport extreme could.
    • MrBuddyCasino 10y ago
      Yup, the trick is simply to not buy a shitty router. I got an Netgear AC1900 Nighthawk, and its working flawlessly.
• whywhywhywhy 10y ago
  Worrying that they outlived displays and Mac Pros
• kirkdouglas 10y ago
  Do they still sell Time Capsule?
  • grzm 10y ago
    There's still a product page. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME182LL/A/airport-time-capsule-3tb http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME182LL/A/airport-time-cap... I can imagine that they would want people to migrate to iCloud. That would be less helpful for those that don't have a (reliable) internet connection.
    • Tepix 10y ago
      I have a great connection but I don't want my data in the cloud if I can avoid it.
  • justaman 10y ago
    I have it on good authority that Apple only sells adapters now.
• dictum 10y ago
  Wireless routers don't sell like hot cakes, but this was never the point of Apple making them. Just try to imagine Steve Jobs setting up a generic router. * * * Now imagine him searching for a wireless router and seeing some Google product in the top rankings. (EDIT: I tried to play with the "Steve wouldn't allow this" trope and failed — removing it to reduce the noise)
  • harryh 10y ago
    “People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully. I'm actually as proud of the things we haven't done as the things I have done. Innovation is saying no to 1,000 things.” - Steve Jobs
  • madeofpalk 10y ago
    > If there's one thing Steve wouldn't allow is this move. Can we please not bring this up. What makes you think you know anything about what Steve Jobs would have liked?
    • dictum 10y ago
      I'm sorry. I don't like this argument either (it's used for every minor annoyance related to Apple) and I'm not comfortable ascribing intentions to a deceased person.
• abakker 10y ago
  Ugh, this is the first news that I've seen that I feel is really bad. Monitors were ok, that seemed understandable since they were for professionals to go with the mac pro. Apple's monitors were at best "prosumer". Wifi though has always been a very big PITA for consumers, and Apple's hardware/software integration has always been a better bet for ease of configuration, and honestly, reliability. The optimist in me hopes that maybe they'll have something better for us, or are making an acquisition to replace their current product lineup completely. The pessimist in me thinks that maybe they're leaving this market to avoid needing to develop hardware that meets its publicly stated standards for protecting consumer privacy. Potentially they have been approached/mandated to enable some kind of backdoor in it, and they chose to stop producing it, rather than comply. /tinfoil_hat
  • aeharding 10y ago
    On the other hand, consumers seem to be better at configuring wireless routers today than 5 years ago. I rarely see an unsecured router with the default configuration any more ("linksys" SSID, no password). I did enjoy using Apple's wireless routers, though.
    • cmg 10y ago
      I don't know that people are getting better at it, rather it seems to be because routers are coming with randomized passwords printed on a sticker on the unit itself. And it's anecdotal but my neighborhood is littered with base Comcast & AT&T SSIDs.
      • icebraining 10y ago
        That's certainly what happened in my country - people started getting pre-configured wireless routers with their ISP contract. Nowadays a good third of them even have Fonera enabled, which is nice.
    • csydas 10y ago
      I think the set up has become a bit more consumer friendly and appliance like, which may in part lead to better security. Most of the major vendors are even pretty good about disabling commonly exploited functions of older firmwares; there are fewer and fewer routers that are vulnerable to reaver by default now because the WPS function is either disabled or removed completely. This of course doesn't address lesser known more threatening holes, but still it's a start. But I do concur - I will miss the ease of the Airport tech (not so much the most recent prices though).
• nashashmi 10y ago
  The Post-Jobs Apple: - Steer Apple towards its more established areas of expertise, where margins and competitive advantage is high, and the rest of the competition is dismal; - Clip non-innovative departments where purpose and identity are lost; - Concentrate resources where Apple's leadership is comfortable in; - Sunset all else.
  • danieldk 10y ago
    This starts to sound increasingly like Balmer Microsoft. Optimize profits, kill creativity.
    • adgasf 10y ago
      I don't agree with that assessment. If Balmer was following that strategy, MS would have moved to just 2 products: Windows and Office.
• lsadam0 10y ago
  I'm all in the Apple ecosystem, but I'm starting to feel pushed out. First the Mac Pro, then Displays, now this? Is Time Capsule next? My airport extreme is the most reliable home router I have ever owned.
  • tptacek 10y ago
    Time Capsule really should be next. Apple doesn't have any real comparative advantage in backup software. The Time Capsule interface is interesting, but it's not what most people need from a backup solution (what most people need is set-it-and-forget-it that works from arbitrary locations).
    • m_eiman 10y ago
      On a related note, I've noticed that when running Zerotier (virtual LAN over the Internet, free and nifty) my MBP sees the two servers I'm using as Time Machine destinations whenever it's connected to the Internet and performs backups to them remotely. Not necessarily a good thing when I'm tethering, but neat other times :P
    • dsacco 10y ago
      I disagree with this. I think that Apple's time capsule is not well suited to an offsite backup solution, and it probably shouldn't even be the primary. But if you're in the Apple ecosystem anyway, I think it's really convenient to take complete disk images for a full system restore. I think it's cool to use a 3-2-1 backup chain with a backup system image. Granted, this is coming from someone who uses Tarsnap, Arq and Crashplan; but I've used Apple time capsules and I really admire their usability. In a restore scenario I don't have to choose particular files or folders, I just have to choose a date and the entire system is back. This is not without its downsides (no granularity in restore), but it's super convenient if it's what you need. If I were in a decision making position, I'd get rid of the Apple routers like they are doing and double down on time capsules by providing an integrated offsite solution, perhaps marketed with end to end encryption as a nod to privacy advocates.
      • 10y ago
• noir-york 10y ago
  Another sad decision by Apple. My Airport Extreme and multiple Expresses worked great. Loved the Utility app to help configure them - handy little tool. With Apple's resources the router division cannot have been a distraction, nor would not having it materially or even to any large extent, affect Apple's numbers. Maybe this reflects a retrenching mindset taking hold within Apple?
  • grzm 10y ago
    "Loved the Utility app to help configure them - handy little tool." I agree. It may very well be just what I was used to, but I've always found the networking/configuration software very straightforward.
    • tstrimple 10y ago
      Until you need access to a feature that the latest version of the tool doesn't support, so you have to jump through hoops to find and download an old version and attempt to get it to run on a newer unsupported version of OS X. I see no good reason not to just provide a web interface which enables you to configure the router from any computer with a web browser.
  • ibiza 10y ago
    I disagree. The Airport Utility was aggressively bad. Unless you had a setup that exactly matched their paint-by-numbers GUI, it presented a series of vague riddles to accomplish your task. What exactly were the UI metaphors it presented? 3 pretty pictures, right? What was with the hidden, right-click here, elements? A total fail, where a webapp would have been fine.
• matthewmacleod 10y ago
  That's annoying. Airport routers have been the only ones I've bought that don't randomly quit working or require periodic restarts. Time to look at something like Ubiquiti I guess.
  • aeharding 10y ago
    Ubiquiti routers are really great. I highly recommend them; I've never had to restart one.
    • pzb 10y ago
      I agree 100%, but they don't have an AP + CloudKey + Security Gateway in one unit. That is what many people effectively want for home use.
      • astrocat 10y ago
        Well, it's not at all equivalent to an AP, Cloudkey and SG, but they DO have a consumer product: https://amplifi.com/ https://amplifi.com/ Unfortunately details are sparse on their incredibly annoying, scroll-hijacking marketing site. But it seems to be a simple enough, plug-and-play mesh network setup, and the industrial design is quite nice. I think Ubnt just doesn't have the marketing machine needed to really push it in the consumer space.
        • calebm 10y ago
          I bought an Amplifi with high expectations, and my expectations were exceeded. The router is great, but my favorite part is the included smartphone app. It makes diagnosing network problems, enabling guest networks, figuring out who's using all the bandwidth a cinch. As I write this, I realize it sounds like an ad, so for clarity: I'm in no way affiliated with Ubiquiti - just a satisfied customer.
          • astrocat 10y ago
            Super happy to hear that. I've been thinking of getting one for my parents since their house is quite large. What kind of sqft are you covering?
• brianbreslin 10y ago
  I think its harder and harder for Apple to charge $199 for a router when you can get a modem/router combo for $70, or "free" from comcast. The margins on these devices are declining fast. Additionally Google just released their router, and netgear/linksys etc have been dominating that market for ages. Why allocate the manpower when the others on the market have caught up with ease of use and this generates less than 1% of your revenue?
  • brandon272 10y ago
    Wasn't this always the case with Apple's routers? (cheaper or free alternatives)
    • brianbreslin 10y ago
      yeah but back in the day the price difference wasn't as stark. Linksys routers used to be $150-200, now they're $40-80
      • beedogs 10y ago
        The decent ones are still $200 or more. Sure, they'll sell you a cheap, shitty N router for $30, but it'll probably catch fire.
• XorNot 10y ago
  I've never really liked AirPorts, but they were featurful. Honestly though, if Ubiquity would slap a Web UI on their stuff, they'd take-over the market.
• mozumder 10y ago
  I'm surprised Apple could never figure out a way to make a profitable wi-fi router. Every household needs one, so what prevented them from differentiating their products from generic routers? It really could have been a hugely profitable product. I would have gone with a server approach to a wi-fi router, one that does everything in MacOS Server - email, VPN, web, etc..
  • csomar 10y ago
    Here is my guess: Your average iPhone user probably have never heard about the airport router.
• anexprogrammer 10y ago
  I'm less bothered by an exit from routers than monitors and the other changes. That said they were nicely implemented and reliable. All of the current changes are taking away. Aesthetics were and are a huge part of the appeal of an Apple filled desk. Not a one of the other makes gets close yet Apple haven't even asked LG to make their 5k screen look nice or even complementary. After the underwhelming MBP with rubbish travel-free keyboard, and not having a monitor to sit alongside my iMac, they seem incoherent. Where's the new Mini, Pro, 34" curved Cinema screen or iMac? We just need someone else to discover aesthetics and they have a real problem to contend with. I care what the overall look is of things in my home.
• olssonm 10y ago
  What's next, the iMac? =(
  • rcarmo 10y ago
    I honestly wouldn't be surprised.
• kalleboo 10y ago
  Third-party routers have gotten a lot better in reliability since I got my first AirPort (when getting a consumer router that would do 100 MBit NAT routing was nearly impossible, and my parents had one of those lamp timers on their ADSL router to reboot it every day at 3 AM). I felt this coming as long as Apple never added iOS backup support to the Time Capsule. The APFS migration seemed like it would be the final bullet. Had to ditch my latest-model Time Capsule when I got fiber since Apple doesn't let you change the MTU (required for my PPPoE over fiber), and getting faster Time Machine backups than Apple's anemic CPU could muster was just a plus. I was hoping to reuse it as an 802.11ac bridge to my TV/Media center, but, nope, Apple removed wireless bridging as a feature a couple years ago. Good riddance. edit: just got reminded they spent a bunch of money developing special paper and ink for a $300 book instead of this. OK, yeah, no there's logic here.
  • Eric_WVGG 10y ago
    APFS is my theory too. Given that Time Machine would need to be wholly re-written to support APFS, and the Apple strategy is to move everything to iCloud, this makes total sense. I also expect that APFS will make superior alternatives to Time Machine from third-parties possible, so IMO in the long term this is a net plus. It is probably unfortunate for Apple that this news got out before Time Machine 2: iCloud Bugaloo could be announced, though.
  • TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    > just got reminded they spent a bunch of money developing special paper and ink for a $300 book instead of this. OK, yeah, no there's logic here. The $300 book isn't really targeted at consumers.
• nathanvanfleet 10y ago
  Wow, so no more simple Time Machine backup product, and no more to stream music to (maybe they couldn't accept that they had a headphone jack?). This sounds like it's actually quite the departure from their previous strategy to have a digital hub with numerous features about the home. I honestly think they have become myopic. They aren't seeing the big picture of what some of the less profitable products and features are accomplishing. They just aren't making enough income.
  • izacus 10y ago
    Hmm, pretty much any NAS out there (Synology, QNAP or WD) will expose itself as a TimeMachine target as soon as you turn it on. What's not simple about those (+ they give you actual protection from HDD failure)?
    • deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    • DenisM 10y ago
      It used to be just one small neat white box, and now it becomes two less neat boxes: a router with pointy antennas and a NAS. More things to plug, more wires to run, more devices to setup.
    • nathanvanfleet 10y ago
      Yeah I had a Linux TimeMachine for a time, I had to completely restart the TimeMachine pretty consistently. So I didn't much trust the NAS implementations of TimeMachine. But then again I have used TimeMachine through Mac OS Server and it started doing the same.
• sigzero 10y ago
  What are some good alternatives? I have the last "tower" version.
  • mercurysmessage 10y ago
    Netgear and Asus make good routers. Also last I checked I believe Netgear had the fastest wireless router on the market. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
    • izacus 10y ago
      Both Netgear and ASUS AC1900 routers are good, you just need to buy off the top of the line (~80-120EUR price range).
      • danieldk 10y ago
        How regularly and how long do they provide security updates? (No attack, just wondering...)
        • croon 10y ago
          I have an Asus RT-AC87U, which I bought in 2014, and it gets a few updates a year. Not sure how long they'll keep up. Ok, just checked RT-AC66U as well, which is from 2012, and it still gets updates too.
          • ryao 10y ago
            Asus has semi-unified firmware for product line. It makes keeping things up to date easier. Quality went down hill on the RT-N66U (wireless instability), and rather than stick with older firmware that had more security holes than I could continue to track or try to fix it, I went with Ubiquiti equipment.
            • croon 10y ago
              Ah, that's a shame. I have nothing but good things to say about mine, but if issues like that happens in the future I'll likely move to merlin/tomato/some wrt (if the hardware is still viable).
• tlrobinson 10y ago
  "sharpen the company’s focus on consumer products that generate the bulk of its revenue" I'm sure Apple of all companies knows this, but revenue of a particular product doesn't necessarily show the whole picture when some of your brand's appeal is that customers can buy all Apple products and be fairly confident they work well together. Separately, I'm very happy with Ubiquiti products, but I'm also a power user.
• usaphp 10y ago
  if you think about it - they've abandoned monitors, routers, Mac minis, MacBook airs, iPods, what the hell are all those people who worked on these products are doing now? I can understand if they had some other great products in the works but Mac Pro has not been updated for a while, iPhone and MacBook updates are pathetic, looks like Apple is now focused more on marketing and social buzz than creating actual products...
• douche 10y ago
  Interesting to see all the love for AirPorts here. In my experience, they've been pretty garbage, and it was a great relief when we finally ditched them and bought some TP-Link equipment instead, and now we have far less trouble with the office wifi.
• falcolas 10y ago
  This restriction of their efforts on only the most profitable offerings like this seems like a continued step backwards for a company which used to do so much innovating. If all you work on is the iteration and merging of existing devices, you're going to be left in the cold as you're out-innovated by your competitors. This is what happened to Microsoft, and it took many years and a major internal upset to get them back on a positive track. And now look at Microsoft since they've started diversifying and innovating again: they are providing an OS (and hardware) which is genuinely interesting to professionals in a variety of fields. They are going to steal Apple's thunder here soon, unless Apple really makes an effort.
  • kilroy123 10y ago
    Or someone else will come around to do the same. I really think we need a very solid and paid-for desktop Linux OS. Something that is well designed and innovative. I for one would pay for one.
    • uabstraction 10y ago
      A commercial Linux distro aimed at consumers would be cool, but things aren't so bad as it is. Making the switch will surely require some adaptation and getting used to, but when you get settled, things are pretty smooth, and only getting better. I've been happily running Debian as my primary OS for 8 years now, and I spent a few of those years running Linux exclusively. The way I see it, Apple excels on the whole overarching synergy thing, while Linux excels on individual component quality. Considering that each component is an independent project, the Linux ecosystem will never be as homogenous as Windows or Mac. That said, it's a trade many of us happily make for the power of choice.
• optimuspaul 10y ago
  I hope they still make an airplay device that can take over for my Airport express.
  • mrweasel 10y ago
    The Apple AirPort extreme is of little interest to me, it's the AirPort Express I care about. I haven't found any real good replacement for those. I have two and they've been running for 8 or 10 year, with out failure.
  • molecule 10y ago
    For Airplay, I replaced my Airport Express w/ a RaspberryPi running Shairport a few years ago. Works much better, perhaps because the Pi is on wired ethernet, for one less streaming signal over the wireless (?). https://computers.tutsplus.com/articles/using-a-raspberry-pi-as-an-airplay-receiver--mac-54316 https://computers.tutsplus.com/articles/using-a-raspberry-pi... https://github.com/abrasive/shairport https://github.com/abrasive/shairport
    • mahyarm 10y ago
      You can connect an express on ethernet too, and it works pretty good for me. And I don't have to maintain a rasberry pi.
• digitalneal 10y ago
  From my point of view, the market is saturated with all these startups offering mesh wifi services that are already "Apple-fied" in terms of simplicity to setup and activate. Why bother developing in that space when you can just buy whichever startup matures to the largest market share? Throw those engineers somewhere else.
• phmagic 10y ago
  I'm not sure if this is good or bad news for companies like Eero. In the short term, this is great news because of less competition for the extremely easy to use Wi-Fi router, but I have wonder why Apple got out of this business since they often see technology trends years down the road.
  • theluketaylor 10y ago
    Apple should just buy eero with change they can find in the couch. There is a real benefit to apple's business model to ensure a extremly high quality, easy to install wifi option exists. The market is so confusing with different standards and wildly different quality levels between devices. being able to walk into an apple store and get the one that is guaranteed to just work is really valuable. Even if an apple owned eero just breaks even, high quality wifi is so critical to both the mac and ipad product lines it's worth the investment.
    • phmagic 10y ago
      Agreed, it would make Apple more successful in the home than all of their HomeKit efforts have been so far.
• appleiigs 10y ago
  For the past decade I've been blindly buying Apple products (but been using Macs since late 90s), while looking at alternatives with disdain. Paying the Apple premium allowed the tech to get out of the way. Very happy to continue paying, but it seems like Apple is forcing me to leave. In this relationship, I'm the one getting dumped. I'm not sad about it, but from a business perspective why they are actively pushing me away? Canceling product lines (routers, mac pro), not updating the active ones (mac mini, iMac), and being difficult with the products they do update (MBP, iPhone). On a relative basis, Apple has infinite resources. It has cash, the brand and can attract the right people to run the business. Each product line, like the routers and mac pro can be focused on because they have the resources to do it. Most companies re-focus on core products because they are spread too thin - Apple is not.
  • gtk40 10y ago
    When was the Mac Pro line cancelled? I can't find any reference to this.
    • appleiigs 10y ago
      oh sorry, I thought when the MBP touch bar was released the Mac Pro was no longer available from the Apple Store. I swear I confirmed that myself, but it's up for sale now. My mistake. But, Mac Buyers Guide says hasn't been updated since Dec 2013.
      • whywhywhywhy 10y ago
        Rumours to ATP.fm podcast (very close ties with apple employees) has heard a bunch of stuff including "No one is working on the Mac Pro"
        • pyre 10y ago
          Well, I can't imagine what they would be working on with the Mac Pro if they had people working on it for 3 years without any sort of update.
    • 10y ago
• qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Good riddance. I've had an AirPort for years, and the thing never worked right. If you're all apple, things are fine, but if a Linux or Android device connects to your network (I use both), you can forget it: The connection will be awful, and it will slow down and drop constantly. And yes, it actually is the AirPort, as said devices actually work fine on other networks.
  • gkop 10y ago
    This is true. I worked for a couple years at a ~10 person start up whose office used AirPorts. Indeed, it was reportedly rock solid for Apple devices, but flaky as hell from Linux.
• mikekij 10y ago
  How does Tim Cook not see that the ease of use of their entire ecosystem (from routers, monitors to software utilities) is what justified spending twice as much on a mac or an iPhone as a competitor's product? Thinning that ecosystem makes their hardware premiums much harder to justify.
  • mmcconnell1618 10y ago
    Unless Apple is going to put 5G chips into all their future devices and get into the carrier business.
    • croon 10y ago
      If they only want regional markets, sure, but they can forget a global market at that point.
  • newscracker 10y ago
    > How does Tim Cook not see that the ease of use of their entire ecosystem (from routers, monitors to software utilities) is what justified spending twice as much on a mac or an iPhone as a competitor's product? I used to laugh at critics who used to say something about Steve Jobs not being around (after his death) and point to that as the reason for something they disliked. But lately I feel that things would've been very different if Steve Jobs were still around. Tim Cook and gang have grown Apple's financial numbers a lot in the first few years after Steve Jobs's death, but they seem to be floundering in the last few years in making an entire ecosystem or in satisfying the various (connected) needs people have that Apple could sit at every point and make things simpler and more enjoyable.
• carsongross 10y ago
  The bean counter mentality ruins product companies again and again (see autos) and yet even a company as powerfully idea-driven as Apple falls victim to it. I was skeptical of the predictions of apples implosion once Steve was gone. How important can one guys contribution be? Oops.
• mcgrath_sh 10y ago
  To those asking about replacements... I built a home router with about $150-250 of parts, an old, small in space HD, and an old comouter case I had laying around. I have wireless access points on 2/3 floors (old Cisco router for the basement, an N ASUS router for the rest of the house). I used PF Sense on the box. I have wired internet on as much as I can and wish I could use it for more. I don't understand the desire for everything to be wireless. My TVs, desktops, gaming consoles, etc. do not move. I have never been happier with my internet setup. The only time I have had issues was when FIOS was out. The only restarts I have had to do was when my power went out. It has been close to two years now and this is the least amount of maintenance I have ever had to do.
  • JohnTHaller 10y ago
    Quite a few folks are living in places where they aren't allowed to start making holes in walls or between floors to run network cables.
    • mcgrath_sh 10y ago
      Aah, that is completely fair. I am lucky in that I can run those wires. A scenario where someone couldn't didnt cross my mind. Thanks for pointing it out!
    • ryao 10y ago
      There exist third party wireless bridges that work well in such situations. I never hear them mentioned in discussions like this though.
• deleted 10y ago
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• JamiePrentice 10y ago
  I love the reassuring sound of my hard drive in my Airport Timecapsule spinning up when I got back to my desk at home. The Timecapsule was pretty much plug and forget, easy to use. Now when it comes time to retire the Timecapsule I'll have to look outwith the Apple ecosystem and find something else, tinker with its configuration (more than likely for hours) and hope it continues to support my devices with firmware updates. I'm sure my QNAP NAS has Timecapsule functionality but I'm new to the NAS world and I don't think my onsite backup is something that I feel comfortable trusting with it yet.
• rxlim 10y ago
  According to the NetBSD Wikipedia page[1] the firmware in Apple wireless routers is based on NetBSD. I have heard a few people say that their Apple router has been very reliable, so maybe it has to do with it running NetBSD, or at least I would like to think that is the cause. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBSD#Examples_of_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBSD#Examples_of_use
• lowken10 10y ago
  Sometimes people make the mistake thinking that people want the perfect solution when often good enough is fine. One great example is .mp3 vs lossless audio compression. The average listener (myself included) don't care about about perfect audio. We are perfectly happy with good enough. Wireless networking falls into this category. Yes a wired home network would be faster by for the vast majority tasks wireless is fine.
• oceanswave 10y ago
  So I've ignored all the chatter of the headphone jack and the MBP and chalked them up to being in a transitionary period both for wireless and USB-C. But this move seems to indicate a fundamental misunderstanding of the Apple ecosystem. Starting with the WiFi in a consumer's house, today, the Apple 'System' provides you with the entire experience from simply using your iPhone/iPad to easily playing your music on your speakers through AirPlay to watching content on Apple TV to backing up your computers via TimeMachine and providing remote access through Back-To-my-Mac. Further, the devices provide guest and "Mesh" like functionality to have an extended WiFi network -- before mesh wifi technology existed. All this and easily configured though, most appropriately, an app. Shutting down this most fundamental base functionality of AirPort to me is a signal that Apple really doesn't want to be in the business beyond iPhones and iPads. This coming at a time when the competition is actually ramping up providing WiFi devices (Google WiFi) and providing something that Apple has had for years. It's mind boggling.
  • pat2man 10y ago
    Apple can easily sell something like the Eero at the Apple stores and provide a similar (app based) setup. Apple tends to try to innovate where they think other companies are dropping the ball but the wifi router space is getting quite crowded. Not really an opportunity for Apple to blow everyone out of the water.
    • eridius 10y ago
      Agreed. I think Apple can still sell the entire experience if you shop at their store, they just no longer feel the need to have the Apple logo on each product you buy. For monitors there's a strong argument that the monitor is a very visible piece of technology and so should retain the Apple design, but routers generally are put in some out-of-the-way place and, as long as they work well, it doesn't really matter who makes them.
• mindcrash 10y ago
  In case anyone is looking for replacements: Ubiquiti makes some really great professional grade stuff (in regard to design and hardware). I would recommend pairing a couple Unifi AP AC Pro Access Points (with a maximum throughput of around 1.3Gbps on the 5Ghz band) with a Unifi Security Gateway and for most scenarios you will be done and probably never look back. If you really are into networking you could also take a look at their EdgeMax series which has some router features the more simple Unifi products do not provide (like a shit ton of routing features, and the ability to hook it up directly onto a fiber cable using the provided SFP port) Take a look at https://www.ubnt.com/ https://www.ubnt.com/ if you are interested. Hope this helps :)
  • anexprogrammer 10y ago
    Not saying you're wrong, but when I was looking at router replacements the Amazon reviews didn't inspire confidence. I ended up buying another Netgear putting DD-WRT on it. eg https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Security-Gateway-USG-PRO-4/dp/B019PBEI5W https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Security-Gateway-USG-P...
    • aseipp 10y ago
      The main complaints I've seen about the security gateway are mostly that it just doesn't have a lot of features, and some people hit some bad performance. It's really lacking some important features for anyone even remotely a power user. But it seems like they're porting over a lot of features from the EdgeMAX router line to the Unifi line -- so in a few version cycles, you'll get more powerful routing, full VPN, DPI, etc. etc. I'd probably wait on buying a security gateway, though I admit, they're nice for "coherence". The EdgeMAX line is apparently great. I've never used it, but their basic routers are about as cheap. You just don't get fancy SSO/integration, but they are reliable and fast as hell, from what I've heard. That said, I wouldn't let the security gateway dissuade you too much. Their Unifi product line is still generally very good, especially WiFi. I have a small atom board running pfSense as my router, but it's backed by 2x Unifi AC AP Pros (802.11ac), along with a Unifi switch, and a Unifi Cloud Key for running my controller. It works really well, allows remote access, decent breakdown of where my bandwidth comes from vis a vis APs and switch, etc. The AC AP is probably one of the best direct APs I've ever used in terms of quality, though there was a firmware bug that annoyed my Apple devices for a short time... Unifi is almost certainly never going to get close to the features of pfSense, but maybe in a few years down the line when I retire it I'll look again. The WiFi APs and stuff are good though, I'd recommend them, even if you don't go with the switch/router.
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• Randgalt 10y ago
  Damn - I'm speechless. What the heck is going on in Cupertino? The Airport Extreme is THE best wireless router you can buy. Also, it has the integrated Time Capsule which is incredible
• gigatexal 10y ago
  I hate this. One of the draws for me to Apple has always been their vertical integration: everything made by Apple (> 90% of the time) just worked. I never had any issues with my airport extreme and was looking forward to what cool things they would do with them: mesh networking, integrating home automation points? Fuse them with Apple-TV? Alas, just put all your eggs into the Iphone I guess.
• rconti 10y ago
  They already abandoned my Airport Express. It's too old and can't be managed with the new version of the Airport Utility. The old version (which was very difficult to find) wouldn't run on a modern MacOS. Fortunately I have a 10 year old Mac Pro and was able to download the old version of the software and make it work, but it's just not worth the effort every time I have to reconfigure it. IMO the Airport Utility software was already pretty wonky, it was a bit confusing to try to connect to the unit. You'd have to do a few resets of the device before it would show up. Once it works, it works GREAT though. Oh well, I've got all Meraki gear in my house and it works flawlessly. 4k streaming over wifi, no problem. That said, I was lucky enough to buy a house wired with cat5, so all of my bandwidth-hungry devices are wired anyway. Ubiquiti is probably the way to go for most people though. Get rid of the consumer junk.
  • FussyZeus 10y ago
    How old is your Express? I managed my Express from MacOS two days ago.
    • mikeash 10y ago
      The original 802.11g AirPort Express only works with the old AirPort Utility. Which is really unfortunate, because they're perfectly viable otherwise, for things that don't need speed, or just as a place to plug in some speakers.
      • rconti 10y ago
        Yeah, it's a shame because it's a great device. Good reason not to rely on devices that need proprietary software to configure them, I suppose. Though, to be honest, I ran into an issue on 2 Linksys routers where the UI was incompatible with any Mac browser (it threw an error any time you tried to commit a change), so relying on browser-based UI is not perfect either. I can't imagine it would have been difficult for Apple to simply retain compatibility with the old AX; they just chose not to, which is frustrating. I've not learned my lesson since now I have cloud-dependent Meraki gear :)
• adolph 10y ago
  Hopefully they will open up PowerNap backups [1] to non-Apple hardware. For my next home router I'd like to go the scooter computer [2] route, but having to have the MacBook open and awake to back up is obnoxious. 1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204032 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204032 2. https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-scooter-computer/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-scooter-computer/
  • sigjuice 10y ago
    Where does it say that PowerNap backups require Apple storage?
• zanybear 10y ago
  I don't understand why this cannot be a differentiation for a product competing with Amazon Echo and Google Home, certainly you can install one in each room and will provide better networking and see your presence and respond in context.
• KiDD 10y ago
  This is wild speculation... Why would Apple need to upgrade the AirPort Extreme anyways?
• nodesocket 10y ago
  I see a major problem at Apple. They are being run by committee. Tim Cook is not a visionary or entrepreneur at heart. He is a logistics guy. The best run technology companies are run by dictators with a strong technology and product background (Jobs, Elon Musk, Reed Hastings). Let me say it again... Yes dictator. You are never going to get a large group of people to agree on something, if you do it's watered down, compromised, and lacks ambition.
  • draw_down 10y ago
    I think this is more about their growth than any of that. Things like routers and monitors just aren't worth making to them anymore. I'm not sure a different CEO would have seen things differently. I think a lot of people have seen this sort of thing coming, but I wonder if it's happening now because they're not breaking financial records every quarter anymore and want to cut non-essential (from their perspective) biz units. Recall that one of the first things Jobs did upon his return was to focus the product mix, and he got rid of lots of stuff. Cameras, printers, and most famously the Newton.
    • dpark 10y ago
      Yeah, but Jobs did that when the company was in steep decline and genuinely at risk of failing. The current Apple is in a very different place financially.
      • draw_down 10y ago
        True. But he did that in order to refocus on the company on what was important to it.
      • avar 10y ago
        I suspect that it's very deeply ingrained in their company culture that they need to maintain focus in order to continue to be successful. Apple was also very financially successful in the early 90s, which led to the massive product fragmentation which Jobs needed to be brought in to sort out.
• mahyarm 10y ago
  When are we going to get an airplay express now the airport express is going away. And I don't want to maintain a raspberry pi or deal with some airplay speaker's bad airplay implementation.
  • danudey 10y ago
    I'd happily pay a decent sum for a 5 GHz-capable AirPlay speaker system.
    • spiderfarmer 10y ago
      Apple Music with Airplay is in every way inferior to Spotify with Spotify Connect. - Airplay still drains my mobile's battery - I can't control an Airplay stream from multiple devices. - If I go out of range with my mobile the stream stops. - Airplay devices are way overpriced.
      • mahyarm 10y ago
        Chromecast acts the same too. Apple needs to make an airplay v2 that does from device pull like the newer ones do. I tried to outfit everything with chromecasts, but the general airplay integration with the OS made me go full airplay instead.
  • closeparen 10y ago
    There isn't any maintenance. I've had 2 RPi Shairplay servers running in my parents' house for 3 years now, no service calls.
    • mahyarm 10y ago
      How often do you update them? Do they autoupdate themselves like an apple airplay router could? Has that gone wrong?
      • closeparen 10y ago
• IgorPartola 10y ago
  It's 2016 and Wi-Fi is still a pain. Security is non-trivial, firmware is not patched, joining a network is complicated, extending coverage is very tricky. My solution has been to use a TP-Link router running OpenWRT as the router, and a UniFi as an access point. I run the Ubiquiti controller on a separate server. This gives me very good performance and coverage, but the ease of use is zilch. It requires me to know way more than an average person should need to know just to get the network set up. I have never used the Airport routers from Apple, but I understand that they aimed at fixing a lot of these issues. Ultimately I chose not to go with them because they were still not a turnkey solution, while not giving me nearly the performance (speed and coverage) I wanted. I wonder who will be the go to recommendation from now on.
  • dawnerd 10y ago
    +1 on the UniFi gear. I think it's the closest to what apple was trying to go for but a lot more complex. Their site isn't all that clear what you need when you're looking at the products and their documentation kind of assumes you can read their mind - especially if you get an edgemax router with a first gen firmware on it. But, once it's all up and running adding new devices is actually quite nice with the controller app.
    • arca_vorago 10y ago
      There is a reason for this, if I remember correctly, some of the core Ubiquiti engineers were actually senior devs at Apple. I have personally quite enjoyed Ubiquiti, for all their faults, I still find them better than almost every alternative at the current moment.
      • pedrocr 10y ago
        How do you compare it to just buying nice off-the-shelf APs and installing OpenWRT on them? I've been doing that for quite a while now and it's reasonably painless. The things I've seen mentioned are that Ubiquiti makes the config easier (don't really care at this point) and has better support for seamless handoff which was an issue when doing VoIP over WiFi sounded like a good idea but these days normal cell coverage is too good and too cheap to bother.
• taurath 10y ago
  What I miss most about Apple was that Apple was the company that made reasonable decisions for you, when it came to security and all those technical details that was/is endemic in any computing. They had Opinions with a capital O - and made sure that every product you'd buy would be guaranteed to work with other products. If you had the money, you could focus on what you were trying to get DONE rather than spend forever learning about the implementation details. Abstract people from the hardware - focus on the use cases. Now it seems they're leaving people who depended on that behind. No company offers an ecosystem that doesn't require "fiddling" to get things to work correctly. Maybe this is the way it has to be, but I really wonder what Apple's strategy is going forward, because its clear that they've slowed down or stopped development on everything other than their phones/pads and the occasional laptop. What are all their engineers doing? What is the use of having hundreds of billions in the bank if you're not investing it in growing or creating product lines?
  • EpicEng 10y ago
    >...made sure that every product you'd buy would be guaranteed to work with other products. If you had the money, you could focus on what you were trying to get DONE rather than spend forever learning about the implementation details. Abstract people from the hardware - focus on the use cases. Looks down at iPhone 7 which cannot be plugged into new MacBook Pro...
    • madeofpalk 10y ago
      Incorrect http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-cable-1-m http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightni...
      • castis 10y ago
        Does either the phone or laptop come with that cable?
      • EpicEng 10y ago
        So, correct... until you buy a $20 cable which doesn't come with the damn phone or laptop. Yes, that is amazingly integrated and user friendly.
• TYPE_FASTER 10y ago
  They are probably looking at competitors entering the space. Starry, Google, and more are entering the $200 "we'll take care of that for you" market.
• lowbloodsugar 10y ago
  Seems like Apple has missed the point. I buy expensive devices for the ecosystem, and that ecosystem includes the routers (of which I have four in my house). I also bought the expensive devices because they would expand to meet my needs: my 2011 17" MBP came with 8GB RAM and now has 16GB. It now appears that Apple is the iPhone company. Someone has looked at the numbers and decided that everything else is tiny by comparison. Except its only tiny by comparison to iPhone.
• tedmiston 10y ago
  This seems consistent with their decision to get out of displays.
• symfoniq 10y ago
  It's kind of funny: I recently decided that Apple's ecosystem no longer works for me, and that I'm gradually going to start putting most of my tech eggs into other baskets. And whaddaya know? Between the monitors, the wireless routers, and the high-end professional workstations, Apple seems to agree with me that their ecosystem no longer works. I guess it's nice to have some confirmation.
  • lisper 10y ago
    > other baskets Which other baskets? There seems to be nothing out there today that Just Works the way Apple products once did. :-(
    • deleted 10y ago
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    • symfoniq 10y ago
      At this point, I'm just hedging my bets: Windows for creative stuff; Linux for development; still using iOS for my phone (maybe the Pixel 2 will finally convert me to Android). I don't find that Mac OS X (sorry, macOS) or iOS "just work" as much as they used to, so that's not really a requirement going forward. The platforms to which I migrate just need to be heading the right direction (which is to say, the opposite direction of Apple). Microsoft is looking like a newly reawakened company. Between the Surface Studio announcement and the Connect() conference, it seems that Microsoft is serious about pursuing both developers and creative types (I'm in both camps, and Apple is underwhelming me in both areas). Right now, I'm using Windows and Linux to get work done, but Microsoft's efforts at improving the Linux development story might eventually let me boot just one OS again.
• jarjoura 10y ago
  The problem with Apple's internal culture is that even though engineers are brilliant and fully capable, products are designed from the top down. Apple employs people who are a very passionate about wireless technology. VERY passionate. They just don't get the resources or freedom to take their products to the next level. They have to wait for someone from above to be sold on the idea. Yet, it never happens because the engineers are told to keep fixing bugs and keep things humming along. File a radar, and keep doing your job. Probably what happened, a few senior engineers got yanked onto the Watch project or this fabled car thing. They worked and worked and worked on it, and left the junior guys fixing macOS/iOS airport bugs. Then when it came time to build a new revision, they noticed suddenly they were WAY behind the market. Meanwhile, engineers continued fixing macOS/iOS bugs, this time for 3rd party systems, and bam, someone in upper management probably asked, "umm, why are we still building our own thing?" They probably merged the OS wireless teams with the driver team and called it a day. So here we are today, Bloomberg most likely got a tipoff from a disgruntled employee who didn't like they were killing the project.
• rabboRubble 10y ago
  Much late to the convo... Although my old Apple router is still chugging along perfectly well, I'm bummed about this change. First router I have ever felt 100% comfortable with the configuration and operation.
• Negative1 10y ago
  My Airport Extreme finally died a few weeks ago and I replaced it with an OnHub (the TP-Link one). Couldn't be happier -- my Wifi range extends well beyond the perimeter of my house, speeds (appear) to be faster with less connection issues _and_, I can monitor router activity and other stuff directly from their App (though that is the one area it could use a few more features). Google is definitely winning some points in the "simple and works" category. Pricey but worth it, IMHO.
• nodesocket 10y ago
  As an Apple shareholder, and very happy user of Time Capsule this is extremely disappointing. My time capsule is the best value for a solid wireless AC router with 2TB of disk backup which I use to backup my iMac and MacBook Pro with Time Machine. Can anybody name a solid alternative for $299?
  • jdhore 10y ago
    I personally think that a good alternative is the Synology Router (RT1900ac I believe is the model number) and plug a USB hard drive into its USB port. The router itself is $150 and you can easily find even like a 5TB external HDD for another $150.
• mixmastamyk 10y ago
  Unhappy, settled on the airport express a while ago as a nice little box that was secure and kept out of the way. No faith in other companies to deliver a streamlined experience without vulnerabilities.
• joakleaf 10y ago
  So what is Apple working on now? • iPhone 7 looks like iPhone 6 sans the headphone jack. So no design changes for 3 years. To me, 7 does not feel like a significant update over 6. • Macbook Pro got a touch bar. Otherwise, minor design changes since last revision. Does not feel like a significant update. • iMac not updated for 12 months. No significant design changes for years, but the screen resolution is now Retina. • Macbook Air not updated since March 2015 (still low resolution). No significant design changes since introduction. • Mac Mini not updated since 2014. No design changes since 2011. • Mac Pro not updated since 2013. • iOS 10 and macOS are minor revisions. • Thunderbolt display and now Airport extreme/express are dead • The iPad Pro 9.7" looks like iPad air (1 or 2). iPad pro 12.9" looks like any existing iPad but bigger. The iPad minis all look alike. • They didn't release new iPads this fall. Isn't that a first? It feels like the hardware line-ups are getting more confusing: Two different iPad sizes called Pro as wells as "Air 2" and the minis. It made sense that the Pro was the largest one, but they confused us by releasing a smaller Pro that looks like an Air 2, but has a better display than the large Pro. How many iPads do we need? There is the main iPhone line (... 6 6S and 7) that comes in two sizes, and then the evil cousin called iPhone SE which looks like a 5. The laptop line is getting more messy too. The Macbook is like a slower Macbook Air but with higher resolution and 12". They killed the 11" Air, but we now have 3 laptops at 13" (Air + two types of Pro). Is the 13" Pro without touch bar option really necessary? All these series ("", Air, Pro, SE, Mini) which pop in and out of existence feels like they are trying different names for marketing reasons (especially for the iPads). I appreciate the yearly impressive but predictable CPU/GPU and software improvements, but it is really starting to feel like they are either struggling a bit, or working on something that takes a lot of resources from non-essentials and focus.
  • robotresearcher 10y ago
    They released a watch line which is marketed largely as a fashion accessory, and an online radio station. Neither is of interest to me at all, but took a bunch of people and investment to execute. Unless they've got something wonderful up their sleeves, it seems like they really did become a 'lifestyle brand' instead of making the technically best stuff they can. The release of the stupidly expensive gold watch was a watershed moment. Literally no functionality improvement over the base model and several hundred percent more expensive. A big long-term error in positioning and philosophy in my opinion.
• peterwwillis 10y ago
  Dear Apple users, There are still wifi routers that you can use. Which one you choose makes almost no difference whatsoever. Just like with Apple, you can go out and buy a random wifi router, take it out of the box and plug it in, and it will just work. Stop freaking out. Love, the non-Apple universe.
• fiatpandas 10y ago
  I have a feeling that we'll see new wifi-emitting hubs from Apple in the near-term. They just won't be what we conventionally think of as routers, and will feature a host of new features to support a new ecosystem of Apple products for the connected home. e.g. thermostats. The new centralized hubs will be different enough in concept from airports to support abandoning the airport line completely.
• electic 10y ago
  I think what you are witnessing here is a shift in demographics within the company. When Jobs was around, product was king. When engineers said we needed these components, the business folks would figure out how to make the economics work. Now what we are witnessing is the product people are not in charge. The business folks are. So you start to see them tell the product folks they can't do something because it is not cost effective and that is profound.
  • samsolomon 10y ago
    There was an interesting idea floating around Designer News—Without Steve Jobs nobody can contain Johnny Ive. Jobs was a champion of the user. Tim Cook's specialty is in logistics, and probably defaults to Ive on many product decisions. In the mean time Ive continues designing beautiful products that focus on beauty and compromise on function. I doubt that's the case, but I like the theory. https://www.designernews.co/stories/76730-jony-ive-shows-apple-design-studio https://www.designernews.co/stories/76730-jony-ive-shows-app...
    • flukus 10y ago
      Isn't Johnny Ive responsible for a lot of the awful skuemorphic design?
      • matthew-wegner 10y ago
        No, that was supposedly Scott Forstall (and Ive flushed it all with iOS 7 once Forstall was fired).
        • flukus 10y ago
          Thanks.
• ausjke 10y ago
  Really do not like the ISP routers, that bundle the DSL/Cable-model with a Wireless-router together. Just let the modem be modems, and let the router be router, this way you can use any router model you prefer and do not need get stuck with the ISP ones.
• nerdwaller 10y ago
  This is pretty disappointing. I'm not an Apple fanboy, but after I went through a new router every 6-8mo for two years (none of which were low end) - I decided to try the Apple one. It's now been at least 3 years or so with zero issues. Here's to hoping AC is good enough for the foreseeable future. I'm presuming it will be for the average joe.
  • donatj 10y ago
    This. Exactly this. I'd blow through routers but I've been using the Airport Extreme happily for several years.
    • nerdwaller 10y ago
      My sister has the original Airport Extreme (2007, b/g/n). She got it when they graduated college in 2007, still no issues, and `n` is still more than enough for a large portion of the population. That is what originally made me try out the APE.
• mrlambchop 10y ago
  My assumption is that voice assistants (alexa, google home) and mesh network access points (ubiquiti, eero, google wifi) will fast converge soon into a single device.
• themagician 10y ago
  They may just throw a router into the next AppleTV. AppleTV is already positioned as the "center of your home" for HomeKit-enabled devices.
• kimshibal 10y ago
  I have a friend at Apple. The wireless team will be moved to Dongle department.
  • kilroy123 10y ago
    Can't tell if sarcasm or real.
• dvcrn 10y ago
  This is sad. I loved Apple routers and hoped for an upgrade anytime soon. I know there is enough hate towards Apple here and I will probably still buy their new 15" Macbook, but I'm hoping for either Apple to get back to what they did before, or some other company stepping in and taking over the things Apple stopped doing. Looking at Google for example: Started building high-end phones (iPhone), released a pretty good router (Airport), actively pushing chromecast (AppleTV). What if Google were to make a powerhouse of a laptop that's not running ChromeOS? Could that be viable? The next Macbook I buy will hopefully last another 5-6 years, or hopefully longer. So for me 5-6 years for Apple to build something truly impressive. Who knows? Maybe Apple really does have a broader vision that we just don't see yet.
• jstsch 10y ago
  Hmm, since there is currently a great Airport with 802.11ac support out there, what would Apple develop right now? Might it be that they'll come out with a new product when 802.11ax is due to ship, which might be a few years down the road? For the rest, I'll repeat what everyone says. The Airport is an essential part of the Apple ecosystem. It just works. I'd be surprised if they actually drop the product.
• tomovo 10y ago
  I wonder what would happen if Adobe released Photoshop for Linux. Or if Ableton for Linux was released. I'm pretty sure those would make them try A LOT harder on the desktop front.
• twblalock 10y ago
  I'm on Apple's side on this one. I know a lot of people who have worked, or currently work, at Apple, and a lot of other Apple fans who buy almost all of their technology products from Apple. I don't think any of them ever bought an Airport. Airports were a lot more expensive than most consumer routers, and ease of setup is not a huge differentiator. With most routers, you go through the pain of setting them up the day you buy them, and that's it. Even non-technical don't seem to have too much trouble setting up their generic consumer routers. I would much rather see Apple focus its engineering resources on a good iPhone 7 than waste them on a wifi router that is not nearly as important to the company's ecosystem and revenue.
  • symfoniq 10y ago
    My own anecdotal evidence is that there are at least two dozen Airports in my neck of the woods because that's what I recommended to friends, family, and coworkers who wanted a wireless router than "just worked." And "just work" they have. This post is being routed through a Time Capsule. My own opinion is that Apple is being shortsighted by culling so much of what made their ecosystem deep and wide. The bean counters are running Apple now; I wouldn't touch their stock with a ten foot pole.
• scarface74 10y ago
  I don't see any reason for the AirPort. I can only think of a few scenarios with respect to consumers and Wifi: 1. The router they get from their ISP is good enough, they can get support for their internet access and their wifi from one place and they don't mind paying the $7-$10/month. This seems like it would be the easiest for the non-tech user. 2. A combined router/cable modem is desired but you don't want to pay $7-$10/month. Buy a device that is compatible with your cable modem -- again something that I don't see Apple making. 3. You want a separate ISP modem and more advanced wifi router -- the only case that an updated Airport would satisfy. 4. You want an easy to configure mesh network for better coverage -- buy some Eero devices. 5. You want a versatile travel router -- one that can serve as a regular router (ethernet -> wifi bridge), a wifi->ethernet bridge, a wifi->wifi bridge (to create a private network from a public network), or an extender. There is already a $30 router that can accomplish that. I have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR802N-Wireless-Repeater-300Mbps/dp/B01CVOLGOG?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR802N-Wireless-Repeater-3...
  • philwelch 10y ago
    6. You want to back up your Mac, so you buy a Time Capsule.
• shmerl 10y ago
  I always used routers that allow installing customizable OS, so Apple was never a good choice. Something like Linksys WRTs today are way more interesting than whatever routers Apple made.
• phs318u 10y ago
  I can relate to the sadness of those witnessing the slow-motion atrophy of an epic company. Apple have been the company that "did it right", that made it "just work" and got out of your way, all while looking ridiculously beautiful, without compromising on engineering quality and with sensible security baked in. Once upon a time I thought/hoped Apple would by Sun - what a world that would have been! Given that's no longer the company we're being left with, is there a window of opportunity for a new entrant to step in and start filling that void using the same principles of design and cohesion that Apple have made famous? A sort of "Apple for Nerds"[1]. [1] BTW, this is not Google, nor should it be any company where the "customer" is actually the product.
  • FT_intern 10y ago
    >Given that's no longer the company we're being left with, is there a window of opportunity for a new entrant to step in and start filling that void using the same principles of design and cohesion that Apple have made famous? Xiaomi can steal the entire process and product sell that same product for half the price
    • RCortex 10y ago
      >Xiaomi And it will never be of apple's quality during its heyday, or even of the quality apple offers now. Copying isn't enough, or sony snd toshiba or samsung woukd be able to make comparable laptops.
• Razengan 10y ago
  I wonder if this has anything to do with agencies like the NSA "requesting" Apple to put backdoors in their future routers..
• laughfactory 10y ago
  I'm astonished to hear Apple is abandoning no longer developing monitors and routers. The only way to understand their behavior is from the accounting and finance side. Someone in accounting/finance must've pointed out that they don't make a lot of money making and selling routers and monitors and such. So it seems like an easy win to drop those lines of the business. BUT, I suspect this will prove very short-sighted in the long run, and possibly endanger the company as a whole. The one thing Apple is (it seems) overlooking is the ecosystem effect. While some may not buy Apple monitors or routers, many do. Sure they last a long time and you don't need to constantly buy another one, and there may be viable substitutes, but if you're one of those people who considers themselves Apple-only (I have a non-techy friend like this) then eliminating Apple products just reduces their attachment to all things Apple. Pretty soon they start realizing that, hey, this non-Apple router works just fine! Hey, this non-Apple monitor works just fine, too! And the importance of the brand is reduced. Then they inevitably start thinking about how maybe a non-Apple laptop might be just as good (too) and cost a boatload less. Or maybe the new Pixel phone is as good as their aging iPhone. After all, they've heard good things about the camera. So, yes, in strict accounting terms it may make sense to eliminate product lines with thin margins and low volume, but on the whole it props up the whole brand. Personally, I like knowing that I could go buy an Apple monitor. I know they're exceptional quality, and beautiful to boot. I may not have the cash to do it now, or even soon, but it's something to look forward to. Same with their excellent routers. But now? I guess I'll have to keep an eye on what Microsoft is up to. It's ironic to me that Apple has lost sight of what supports and nurtures their brand, while it seems Microsoft has discovered Apple's secret sauce. Microsoft is creating beautiful expensive products which are almost certainly thin margins and low volume, but is doing so because of the cachet that comes from doing so. From the perception that the Microsoft brand is associated with beautiful, high quality, electronics. This rubs off on everything else they do. And man, do those new Surface Studios look nice. I've been gradually moving the whole family to Mac-land, but now I may have to rethink. It seems Apple has lost touch and is now run by accountants and analysts--not designers and engineers.
• Khaine 10y ago
  I'm getting really frustrated by Apple's attitude to the Mac. Apple let key product lines stagnate, let the ecosystem wither and die (see monitors and now airport). They are building an ecosystem around the apple watch (see all the watch bands, and iOS), but at the same time killing all of the supporting ecosystem to macOS. Whats more frustrating is that apple does not outline its vision for macOS so we all have to divine what they fk they are doing. They fire the head of automation, and the more changes they make like this, the lest I'm willing to trust Apple with the future of my computer. Apple is slowly eroding the trust with its users.
• darklajid 10y ago
  Not affiliated (but a customer): I will probably go with a Turris router for friends and family, whenever they ask me for help. Previously I tried to find a cheap OpenWRT based router, but then I kinda inherited the burden of supporting that: Initial configuration is non-trivial even with Luci, but that's a one-off thing and it usually Just Worked afterwards. And started to bit-rot, because I certainly didn't leave remote access for me to update the thing and had no inclination to do that either. Enter Turris: A powerful router based on OpenWRT. Automatic updates included. For basic setups you get a really, really easy UI, for advanced stuff you can still open Luci or ssh in.
• ceejay 10y ago
  I'm actually pretty disappointed to hear this. With all the known security vulnerabilities with other routers, and Apple's stand against the surveillance state, I was 100% certain the only choice I could make for a new wireless router was going to be Apple. Now looks like I'm back to the drawing board w/ my research.
• tinus_hn 10y ago
  Time for our daily 2 minutes of Apple hate!
• ksec 10y ago
  The Apple Router is an absolute Joy to use. Most people, especially enthusiast keeps talking about range, speed etc. But none of them is as important as stability! What is the point if connection suddenly dropped, or you need a reset. It is by far the best consumer Router. While its competition has improved, ASUS, TP-Link, Netgear, Linksys, DLink. They are properly the biggest 5 consumer brand routers, it still hasn't reached the Airport Extreme yet. The Airport are based on NetBSD, and if you follow Apple you could trust them leaving no backdoors opened. I fully agree with some have said that we need Time Capsule, or a local iCloud Storage that sync between the local and online iCloud. Making iPhone / iPad and Mac backup much faster and has a iCloud Subscription comes with it. I was hoping, with Apple making ways towards wireless, to make their own WiFI chipset. The 802.11ax that makes everything better in 2.4/5Ghz and a 60Ghz implementation of 802.11ay.
• computator 10y ago
  > Apple shares rose 0.9 percent to $111.07 at 11:03 a.m. in New York Monday. I wish business articles would cease the silly habit of quoting the stock price as if it has anything to do with the story. They're implying that the shares rose because Apple dropped wireless routers. A 1% change in the stock price is completely normal and random day-to-day fluctuation for any large company. Even if it were a 5% change, you still couldn't say what caused it unless you went out and spoke to the buyers and sellers. It could be due to something completely unrelated like the whole market experiencing a rally or a sell off.
• rhelsing 10y ago
  This sucks.. Of the apple routers I've owned they have "just worked".. which is the best feature of any router I have ever encountered IMO.
• weaves 10y ago
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