19 ms·

The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

176 points by douche 10y ago

yoz-y 10y ago
I do not subscribe to the idea that it is a good thing to switch from one DE to another for specific tasks. I think it is better to learn one, master it and stick to it. Otherwise time that should be spent working is spent on tinkering with the DE.
- stinkytaco 10y ago
  While I agree with you personally, I also get why people do it. For some the tinkering with the DE is working, or at least having fun. It might be a form of procrastination or a genuine interest. It's not terribly different than reading productivity blogs or looking at other people's vacation photos.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Well the idea is supposedly that if you get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive. Various people have a love for tiling WMs because they can navigate and organize things with the keyboard.
  - falcolas 10y ago
    > get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive Does that ever actually occur? My vimrc changes almost on a daily basis, and I'm frequently changing plugins, writing new tools, and creating new aliases all time time. And that's just for my terminal. Having to repeat some of those modifications 3-4 times because I'm using a slightly different terminal app for each individual task would, I think, drive me batty.
    - jlarocco 10y ago
      > Does that ever actually occur? My vimrc changes almost on a daily basis, and I'm frequently changing plugins, writing new tools, and creating new aliases all time time. And that's just for my terminal. Don't take it the wrong way, but that sounds like a personal problem ;-) If I were changing my configuration files that often, I would start looking for an environment that worked better for me. My config editing is approximately logarithmic. There's a bunch when I start using new software (or start using old software in a new environment), but it slows down quickly as time goes by. Nowadays, I might make a big change to my .emacs once a year, and maybe tweak a variable or keyboard shortcut once every 3 months or so, but generally it doesn't change much. Same with all my other config files.
      - hsitz 10y ago
        >Don't take it the wrong way, but that sounds like a personal problem Yes, and in addition one that exists regardless of what OS/WM/DE you're running, since Vim and Emacs configuraion works basically the same whatever platform they're on.
        digi_owl 10y ago
        And now i wonder if this is a contributing factor to a certain big name DE stripping out options...
    - hsitz 10y ago
      >Having to repeat some of those modifications 3-4 times because I'm using a slightly different terminal app for each individual task would, I think, drive me batty. I have no idea what you're talking about. What are these "slightly different terminal apps"?
      - falcolas 10y ago
        It's a play on switching WMs to handle different tasks. Perhaps not worded the best way. That said, different terminal emulators do behave differently.
    - AimHere 10y ago
      There's nothing forcing you to use the native terminal under a new DE/WM. If your neurons have hardened on the gnome-terminal way of doing things, it's no biggie to just keep using that under KDE or openbox or twm or whatever, modulo (maybe) a little twiddling of desktop shortcuts and menu entries and the like.
  - yoz-y 10y ago
    I do use a tiling manager on my linux laptop, but this is mostly because on a 13" screen every pixel counts. Also, the trackpad is really not good. Nothing wrong with trying several environments until you find one which is the right one for you. But, hopping from one to another, like the article suggests, seems counterproductive to me.
- reflexive 10y ago
  > time that should be spent working is spent on tinkering with the DE The counterargument is that time spent optimizing your workflow by tinkering with the DE pays off 10x.
buckbova 10y ago
> If you’re using Windows, you’re pretty much stuck with the Windows interface. The menus are always going to be in the same place and while you can do things, like change your desktop image and your colors and themes, you’re still limited in how you interact with your computer. I'm not so sure about that. I used winblinds years ago for XP. Not surprised to learn that they're still around. http://www.stardock.com/products/ http://www.stardock.com/products/
- boneheadmed 10y ago
  Hadn't heard of it. Very cool alternative. Especially since I still can't get used to Win 10.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  There used to be a bunch of alternatives to explorer.exe (yep, the very same damned .exe as the file explorer), but its been ages since i played with them. They all had quirks and issues, as best i recall.
  - notalaser 10y ago
    Litestep used to be very sleek at one point. I've used it for an year or two without any problems.
    - fmoralesc 10y ago
      I remember making themes (and even a "distro") for litestep when I was in highschool. Good times. The best shell I ever used for Windows in terms of productivity was a blackbox variant, xoblite (http://xoblite.net/ http://xoblite.net/).
- Zikes 10y ago
  I used Rainmeter and DisplayFusion to set this up as my desktop: https://goo.gl/photos/JNtxrGasR4LnRPPn6 https://goo.gl/photos/JNtxrGasR4LnRPPn6 Pardon the phone recording bit, I had difficulty finding a screen recording software that would record at a decent framerate at 4K.
drinchev 10y ago
For all interested, there is a really nice thread on reddit for showing off your desktop configuration [1]. There really are some master-pieces there. 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/
- api 10y ago
  Pretty really isn't the problem and hasn't been for a very long time. You can make Linux IMHO prettier than a Mac or Windows pretty easily. The problem is having to tinker. Tinkering is fine if you've got the time and enjoy it, but if you just need your computer to always "just work" this is a problem. Both Linux and Windows strike out for me here. I use a Mac because I almost never have to mess with it... I mean sometimes a year can go by between times when I have to actually mess with my machine. Nothing else does that.
  - hsitz 10y ago
    I'm not sure why you think you "have to tinker". I run Ubuntu 14.04 and use i3 window manager. I haven't "tinkered" with the setup in about a year-and-a-half, dating back to when I installed i3 shortly after I got the my last computer. The default Unity DE is nice, too. I don't use it, but I could have used it all this time, can't imagine what "tinkering" would be required.
    - CaptSpify 10y ago
      I'll bite: I have to tinker all the time because hw compatibility still sucks. Wifi, sound, video-cards often require tinkering to get them working, especially after upgrading. They are a lot better than they used to be, but they still have a ways to go.
      - hsitz 10y ago
        I've had zero driver issues on my Asus UX305 laptop. Even if I had, those issues are generally solved once on installation, not continually tinkered with.
santaclaus 10y ago
I wish one of the major Linux distributions would double down on design as a core priority (as in, bring in designers and give them serious pull). I'd kill for a beautiful, opinionated, and novel Linux desktop environment.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Err, thats what both KDE and Gnome has already done...
- stinkytaco 10y ago
  There are many that would argue that Gnome 3 is just that. Opinionated to the point of driving users away. Beyond that, there are many projects that I feel meet your criteria: Enlightenment, Deespin, Sugar, etc. And, of course, you can go ask the folks at i3 or wmii for an opinion, I bet they will be happy to give you several.
- chadsy_ 10y ago
  Check out elementary OS: https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
- nixos 10y ago
  >as in, bring in designers That's the mistake. You bring in UX experts (who also happened to understand your primary users) Graphics design != UX
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    > who also happened to understand your primary users That would be the hard part...
- AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
  That appears to be the explicit goal of ElementaryOS: https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/ Personally not my cup of tea, but you might enjoy it.
- michaelmrose 10y ago
rootbear 10y ago
In the environment I'm in, my Linux home directory is shared by multiple systems. Most are CentOS 6, but we're starting to use CentOS 7, too. I'm using the default Gnome 2 Desktop on 6, but Mate Desktop on 7, as I don't like Gnome 3 or the "Classic" option. I can't point to any specifics at the moment, but I've had what I think are issues of these desktops stepping on each other. Being able to switch between DEs is nice, but they have to play nicely with each other and I'm not sure that's always true. I also maintain some Solaris 10 systems and that's a whole other set of issues, sharing a home directory across different "unix family" systems.
- mverwijs 10y ago
  If in this case you've a /home that is an NFS mount shared across several nodes running different *nix or even Linux distros then yes, that is a problem. Centos6 will have different Gnome versions than Centos7. However, both will write in ~/.gnome, possibly .gtk, or .gtk-3.0 or wherever the hell they write to these days. Better to share your data through an nfs share in /data instead of /home and take the pain of not having the exact Desktop across different nodes. Or to create a homogenous environment with only Centos7 for example.
  - rootbear 10y ago
    I'm beginning to think that's the right approach. Or, have a minimal home directory with a .bashrc that sets $HOME at login to an appropriate sub directory. Might not be too robust...
awalGarg 10y ago
One not-so-unrelated thing I really love about linux is that the "configuration" for just about every application is stored in plain-text files, mostly in the user's home directory. Which means we can use git to version control them (like many many people do - the dotfiles trend). You can have a log of configuration changes for your system, you can have various profiles with branches, etc. Want to switch to a different profile? Just `git checkout <branch-name>`, done! Want to revert some change, or see how your PC looked like 2 months ago? `git log` and `git checkout` your way through! I currently have all my configurations[1] in a dotfiles directory representing the home directory (same directory structure etc.) and symlinks to them in the actual home directory. Very easy to manage. [1]: https://github.com/awalGarg/dotfiles https://github.com/awalGarg/dotfiles
- digi_owl 10y ago
  For every person loving those plain texts, there are one that want to see them purged from existence. Observe how Gnome has basically recreated the registry, complete with hidden magic switches...
  - lima 10y ago
    Gnome re-created the registry because they needed features that plain text files don't have. I simply have a hook for my dotfile repo which calls "dconf dump / > .dconf". This dumps the entire tree and it's nicely versioned in the repo.
    - willtim 10y ago
      The issue for me is more that they recreated the windows registry with all its flaws. For example, when uninstalling an app, can every entry associated with that app be easily removed?
      - okramcivokram 10y ago
        If app is removed, are all the relevant dotfiles removed?
manaskarekar 10y ago
Edit: Can the downvoter explain their reason? My personal favorite is the LXDE / Lubuntu 16.04 setup. All my subjective opinion, of course: - Sits in the sweet spot for bare bones distro vs batteries included. - Without decorations, I have essentially borderless applications, that I can quickly toggle the titlebars etc. - Kept sane keyboard shortcuts and did not remove them for some arbitrary reasons. Here's a random nitpick, why do some interfaces no longer allow you to press a single letter on the keyboard to launch an option from a menu, example: An option from the list of options in the File menu? - Very fast, allows a great battery life, all of ubuntu packages and ubuntu community support/troubleshooting, very easy to customize if you need to. I love it because it is an OS that stays out of my way, has a sane setup out of the box and looks awesome with the borderless windows. It is perfect in almost every way! I'm worried about their plans to switch to LXQt. It's almost like how Ubuntu 10.10 was IMHO, the pinnacle of perfection, sane choices etc, and then they decide to start all over again.
- blueprint 10y ago
  I hear LXDE was superseded by LXQt. http://lxqt.org http://lxqt.org
- St-Clock 10y ago
  My understanding is that LXDE does not support HiDPI very well because not everything is ported to gtk3. Do you have any experience to share with retina/3K/4K displays and LXDE?
- benologist 10y ago
  Only thing I dislike about Lubuntu is losing Mac keyboard shortcuts and hardware, a lot of them I managed to replicate and even found a (slightly unstable) Alfred alternative called Albert [1]. My Magic Mouse 2 could only work like a dumb mouse. I turned off the tray at the bottom, the window borders and set apps to start full screen, switching between full screen apps was much nicer than what remains after Apple closed off whatever Total Spaces was using. It ended up being a really productive way to work due to the lack of distraction like crap software from Apple, Adobe, 1Password, iTerm etc endlessly begging for 5 minutes so you can watch their updates download. Or all the other notifications that mostly don't need to be read or exist. [1] http://www.howopensource.com/2015/03/launcher-for-ubuntu-linux/ http://www.howopensource.com/2015/03/launcher-for-ubuntu-lin...
zedr 10y ago
The freedom of using a variety of desktop environments, and the ability to customise them down to the source code, is what got me interested in Linux in the first place. Back in 2003, I was experimenting with Rainmeter and a port of Blackbox for Windows, but became quickly frustrated about their limitations. I spent an embarassing amount of time trying out the different window managers, before settling on KDE 3. There's a downside, however: fragmentation.
theSoenke 10y ago
If there is one distro i have to recommend it's Solus. I'm usually not a fan of new distro xyz were not much except the wallpaper changed. But Solus is build from scratch and questions many old linux dogmas. It also focuses on the desktop and is probably one of the fastest distros with a great OOTB experience. It also has a very high velocity were every time you look there are new amazing improvements
mmphosis 10y ago
Oh the joy ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession
anondon 10y ago
One thing I noticed about installing multiple desktop environment on Ubuntu: they all have different default apps that are always installed. So when you have two desktop environments, you end up with 2 different terminals, 2 different file browsers, 2 different archive managers etc. You could uninstall apps that have the exact same purpose, but it would be nice if there was a formal way for DEs to recognize and acknowledge the existence of another DE. Rant: When I first wrapped my head around the concept of a desktop environment, the first thought that came to mind was: why don't Microsoft and Apple abandon their proprietary OSes and just build and maintain a solid desktop environment for Linux and the BSDs. It would save them a ton of money, resources, developers, it would improve security. The major drawback was porting the apps written for their OSes to Linux and BSDs, which was a deal breaker. Then came the announcement of Windows subsystem for Linux, first thought: incredible engineering feat but MS did the exact opposite of what I would have wanted, which was a Linux subsystem for Windows. It would have solved the issue of porting Windows apps to Linux. Now I am beginning to realize that all decisions technical or not, are just ugly politics with nice explanations to make the decisions seem like the right thing to do.
- justinsaccount 10y ago
  Most environments will have two packages, like: cinnamon-core - Cinnamon desktop environment - essential components cinnamon-desktop-environment - Cinnamon desktop environment - full desktop with extra components If you just want to try out the environment without all the extra stuff, you'd prefer the first package over the 2nd.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  > ugly politics with nice explanations And why in the long run OSS will be subverted because it exists to strip free software of politics...
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    It seems like the endless iteration of OSS stripping some politics, then someone taking it and adding different politics, which makes someone else do an OSS version without that politics, etc.
shmerl 10y ago
Waiting for KDE to switch to Wayland at last. The progress is slow, but steady: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/ Some major applications are still behind. For instance Firefox: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134
kevinvdburgt 10y ago
That is one of the reasons i like Linux very much! Still, bspwm is my favoriete because i van everything togheter as i want :) And a tilingwm is increasing my workflow! Still considering to leave osx (or called macOS these days) behind. But there is still the osx only software problem.
adrianlmm 10y ago
I'm more productive when using GNOME, to me is the most usable DE out there.
- nolepointer 10y ago
  Some design choices for GNOME simply escape me. By default, no window buttons (i.e. active windows) on the top panel. By default, no maximize/minimize buttons for windows. Who could possibly find that user-friendly?
  - symlinkk 10y ago
    > no maximize/minimize buttons for windows why do you use the maximize / minimize buttons? If you're just trying to see a different app, wouldn't alt+tab do the same thing? > no window buttons (i.e. active windows) on the top panel why do you need to see a running list of everything that's open in your face at all times? it seems to me like the only time you should need this information is when you're switching apps. you can also see this information by pressing the Super (aka Windows) key. also, afaik i3 doesn't show you all of the running applications at once either, but no one ever complains about that.
    - alphapapa 10y ago
      > why do you use the maximize / minimize buttons? To maximize and minimize windows? > If you're just trying to see a different app, wouldn't alt+tab do the same thing? Can you alt+tab with a mouse? > why do you need to see a running list of everything that's open in your face at all times? A taskbar at the edge of the screen is "in your face"? What if the panel auto-hides? > it seems to me like the only time you should need this information is when you're switching apps. And by hiding that information, you add an extra step to the process. The one-step "click on taskbar button" becomes the two-step "activate the window list, click on window button". > i3 doesn't show you all of the running applications at once either, but no one ever complains about that. That's because people who use i3 don't want that feature. People who do don't use it. GNOME used to have it, but threw it away--along with many other features. Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone uses their computer the same way you do?
aarghh 10y ago
Speaking of window managers - is there a successor/branch of scwm (Scheme Constrained Window Manager) that is being maintained currently? I loved how that worked...
seanwilson 10y ago
I used to love the choice after being limited by Windows but it meant all the development and design efforts were split between different desktop environments so mixing apps from different desktop systems was an awkward user experience. I preferred KDE the most but I never understood the obsession with the number of customisation options. These surely slowed down development and it felt like you had to be the UX designer yourself instead of sensible defaults behind chosen. Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done.
- type0 10y ago
  > Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done. Try Ubuntu MATE, if you want minimal customization you have some preconfigured defaults in MATE Tweak tool, if you ever want to customize more its super easy compared to every other DE I've tried.
- slgeorge 10y ago
  > Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done. The difficulty is that one persons "sensible default" is anothers "crazy terrible default". Particularly in the Linux world, fuelled by it being committed hobbyists who create much of the desktop software and the tradition of UNIX configurability.
bitwize 10y ago
I get to experience the joy of not having a desktop environment; of using a bare WM, the shell, and 30-year-old Unix skills to work with my system. It's a good feeling.
- gooseyard 10y ago
  I feel the same way; although I've spent some time with both Gnome and KDE, I never developed an attachment to either of them, mostly because I felt that there was a good likelihood that mastering the Gnome of today might be a pointless exercise because if you sat me down in front of the Gnome of one year from now, it'd be unrecognizable to me. Around the advent of Gnome 3/KDE 4 I also realized that I didn't really use any of the Gnome or KDE apps. If I want to burn a cd, I know wodim well. If I want to listen to music, I probably use my phone. The browser is the only desktop app that I use regularly, and that's fairly agnostic. I've spent years tweaking rxvt Xresources, for example, such that I can drop it on a brand new machine and everything behaves as I expect. I'm well past the point in my career where I'd be looking for, say, a better terminal emulator, or shell, or chat app or any of that stuff; the stuff I've got is working as well as I could hope, and when I need something new I can compose it from the abilities that the shell and the window manager expose. The last big change I made was after I tried a tiling WM (Xmonad) for a couple of days and realized right away I'd never go back; that's been 7 or 8 years ago. Occasionally stuff changes underneath me in ways that seem somewhat capricious (Pulse Audio, Systemd) but I usually give that stuff a chance and try to adapt to it unless its absolutely unbearable. I enjoy checking out the new stuff on machines I use at home for fun, but at work I treat the workstation as an instrument; I know what I want and almost everything has a reason.
- slgeorge 10y ago
  I've been going through a similar experience over the last few years, mostly driven by my hardware getting older and not handling the requirements of modern DE's (when I'd prefer the resource to be used for applications). It's nice stripping back to the original structures, though it does feel like computer archaeology sometimes. There's a lot of services in the upper layers that have to be switched off to get back to plain .xinitrc and Xresources! On the upside, I know my configuration and it's all in a repository now!
copperx 10y ago
At first I thought this was a sarcastic post.
bengalister 10y ago
I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.10) as my primary desktop and failed again. I tried yearly since year 2000. But again in late 2016 I switched back to Windows (10) and MacOs. Driver support is getting better but so are my expectations and Linux (well Ubuntu) doesn't seem to catch up fast enough. For instance I failed having my dual graphic cards be used in extended mode with the my native laptop screen and an external HDMI screen monitor. My bluetooth headset has a hard time being recognized by the OS I have to retry many times. And I cannot have sound through on my monitor connected to HDMI output of my Nvidia graphical card. Maybe I used the wrong distro, but all these issues are non-existent when I switch to Windows 10. Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup.
- rifung 10y ago
  > Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup. Indeed every time I think of getting a new laptop or desktop, I try to do research into how well Linux will run on the hardware. Thankfully there seem to be a decent number of laptops that have Linux preinstalled now. As much as I enjoy tinkering, even after using Linux for a while I still don't have a strong understanding of how things work, and it's frustrating to be forced to tinker when my intention was to get things done. Perhaps I need to dedicate more time to understanding how things work?
  - madamelic 10y ago
    I had the same opinion of Linux as you. I didn't want to tinker with it and get everything working well. Just install Ubuntu. Ignore everyone saying Ubuntu is a kiddy OS ("All you need is X, Y, Z-ix"). Ubuntu is Linux Windows (not really, but it is pretty hard to mess up).
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      More like Mac Linux. Neon or openSuse is more Windows-like IMO.
    - dhimes 10y ago
milkytron 10y ago
Although this blog entry is entirely about desktop interfaces, he does mention that > ...Windows, OS X, iOS, and Android, have one common interface... This is true for the first three without significant modification, but it isn't true for Android. One of my favorite things about Android when I had it was the ability to choose a launcher right from the app store. You can completely change your home screen interface with a downloadable app, and it's actually much easier to do than it is on linux last time I checked. For desktops I agree, Linux has the most customization when it comes to the interface. But on Android, it's just as customizable as a Linux desktop(I mean... it is Linux after all).
- nathcd 10y ago
  I agree mostly, but > on Android, it's just as customizable as a Linux desktop I wouldn't say is true. For android launchers to be functionally equivalent to (or as customizable as) linux DEs, they'd have to be able to customize android's nav bar, pull-down menu, settings app, recents menu, and split screen/tiling/windowing. At the moment, these are all handled at the OS level. Not that android's launcher concept isn't cool, but it's definitely not as flexible as DEs.
  - milkytron 10y ago
    I agree, the launcher isn't as customizable as a linux desktop. To change the entirety of a linux user interface is much easier on a linux desktop. But nonetheless, Android is still quite customizable, and the other interfaces you mentioned (nav bar, pull down menu, etc) are still customizable if you're able to flash a custom ROM. It's all possible, but desktop Linux is much easier to fiddle around with in that manner. Nonetheless, I think Android should've been left out of that group in the OP. Not a big deal, but for someone who used to tinker with Android quite a bit, I couldn't resist commenting the point.
lottin 10y ago
Nice article, but what's wrong with that page? ublock reports 409 requests blocked and increasing...
- tyrust 10y ago
  You can click on the uBlock icon and open the logger (little icon that looks like a window with lines) to see which requests are being blocked. I'm seeing xhr's to https://collector-medium.lightstep.com/api/v0/reports https://collector-medium.lightstep.com/api/v0/reports being blocked every few seconds. Probably some medium analytics request.
sandGorgon 10y ago
Ubuntu has turned into this franken-beast that is simply not cutting it for me anymore. Right from the installer (that doesn't work well on XPS 13 with name) to Unity to Mir. Fedora 24 has been brilliant and works awesome out of the box. I am constantly recommending F24 to people and have never had a bad experience.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  If you don't like the installer, Unity, or Mir, just go download Linux Mint with Cinnamon and be done with it.
- willtim 10y ago
  Ubuntu are playing a (very long) game. If they manage it, IMHO they'll be in a better place than Fedora's UI which is built on a stack that increasingly only Redhat will continue to develop.
  - vondur 10y ago
    I would argue that RedHat is in a better position to do most of the development of the Gnome desktop and Wayland vs Canonical being able to manage the transition to Mir and keep Unity going.
    - willtim 10y ago
      Ubuntu won't need to develop Qt, it has an increasingly vibrant community.
  - sandGorgon 10y ago
    Just like systemd, Wayland and the kernel right ? Are you aware that Redhat actually employs most of the kernel devs ? Ubuntu does not have the "people's stack" ... It's just another company building a stack that is not as good.
    - willtim 10y ago
      I was specifically talking about the UI. Which is more of a priority for Ubuntu as they are trying to build a desktop OS.
jokoon 10y ago
I think the core of the argument about linux is not about having a well designed system that works well, but that it should be an american technology that dominates, and not anything that is managed by a non american, especially if he is against corporatism and tend to do things in a way that can be perceived as arrogant. So basically, linux will not prosper as long as it is not in the interest of the US.
- nols 10y ago
  Linux is extremely successful though, just not on the desktop.
- type0 10y ago
  > and not anything that is managed by a non american Linus is naturalized though: https://lwn.net/Articles/404729/ https://lwn.net/Articles/404729/
roider 10y ago
Tiling window managers like i3 seem to allow the perfect mixture of terminal and graphics. After spending some time using i3 I've noticed (when using for work, etc.)that desktop environments universally seem extremely inefficient and slow. For certain types of tasks a mouse is essential, but being forced to use it for nearly everything in OSX seems like a massive waste of time. I'd like to see a study on efficiency among proficient users of desktop environments and proficient users of WM. Users who view themselves as fluent in an OSX desktop environment and users who view themselves as fluent in a WM(say i3) probably spend different amounts of time executing the same tasks. IMO not having to use the mouse as frequently seems like a tremendous efficiency booster.
- Symmetry 10y ago
  What I do is run a tiling window manager inside a desktop environment. XMonad inside Gnome is what I'm using right now. For 95% of what I do every day I'm just using the keyboard but when I do something unusual there's still the friendlyish GUI to take care of it. On Ubuntu it's just a matter of sudo apt-add-repository ppa:gekkio/xmonad sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install gnome-session-xmonad
AceJohnny2 10y ago
I remember when I discovered Unix as a college freshman (HP-UX with CDE), I spent way too much time fiddling with the desktop settings. For a while I even ran a buggy Enlightenment because wow was it pretty. I loved trying out new visual styles. I spent so much time on wallpapers. It took me years before I realized that what I really wanted to optimize was app layout. Any screen space that wasn't used by an app was wasted space. Space I could use to have a few extra lines in a terminal, a few extra columns of code... I used AwesomeWM for a few years because I loved its concept of "tagging" windows which let you mix-and-match which you were displaying at a given time (this is my "all code" setting, that's my "all terms", and this is my "some code some term..."). Now I'm on macOS and I dearly miss it. Anyhow, I haven't looked at a desktop wallpaper in years, and I like my window decorations as minimalistic as possible.
- psadauskas 10y ago
  I'm in the same boat, I used AwesomeWM for several years, before switching to OSX around 2010, just because the Mac hardware was superior to just about everything else, but I always felt crippled in the window manager. iTerm2 + tmux can get close, but switching to the browser never "fit" in that flow. A few weeks ago I switched back to Linux on a NUC, and its like I've come home again.
  - AceJohnny2 10y ago
    Which NUC? I've been eyeing one for a while, and am always looking for recommendations :)
city41 10y ago
I think even more importantly, Linux allows DEs and WMs to do practically anything they want. The window manager i3 simply is not possible on OSX. OSX tiling window managers use the accessibility API as a hack, and it's just not very good at all. I can't even begin to express how much I love i3. I literally switched from OSX just for i3, it's made me that much more efficient, focused, less frustrated and allows me to use my ultrawide monitor to its fullest potential.
hellofunk 10y ago
Has anyone got a comment on his book, mentioned in the article, Learn Linux in a Month of Lunches? Good, ok, not good...?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tracker1 10y ago
I was a pretty big fan of the LiteStep desktop environment for windows... very configurable.
macawfish 10y ago
I love Gnome 3. Just wanted to pitch that! Didn't used to, but the extension system, as it matures, is making Gnome 3 awesome!
z3t4 10y ago
Unity tip: Use the windows key + number to start or switch between programs. Then when you've learned the keys you can hide the menu bar.
habosa 10y ago
This year my MacbookPro died (battery exploded). Since I was frustrated with Apple's lack of support for this extreme case and the fact that the new models can't be repaired, I bought an Asus UX305LA and loaded Ubuntu onto it. I have used Ubuntu at work for a few years but this was the first time I went with Linux at home. For the most part, I love it! The whole OS seems to be really light on resources and the UI is pretty nice these days. It also passes a critical test, which is when I hand my laptop to a non-technical friend they don't even notice it's running anything uncommon. Chrome is Chrome I guess :-) One thing that kills me is the fact that Linux is basically left in the dust when it comes to media on the web. I can't watch HBO Go, installing Flash player requires a PhD, and many websites just tell you to go away for using an "unsupported operating system".
- alphapapa 10y ago
  > Chrome is Chrome...installing Flash player requires a PhD Huh? Chrome has Flash built-in, and for everything else, just `apt-get install flashplugin-installer`.
mwkaufma 10y ago
Cargo cultism is alive and well! So many _feelings_ of variety! 2016 is the year of the linux desktop, just like 2015, 2014, 2013... So many options of ways to lay out windows but fewer than half the actual applications creative professionals need to do their job, so we're still stuck on Mac or Windows.
- slgeorge 10y ago
  But, the reality is that "creative professionals" have very few reasons to change platforms as Mac/Windows satisfises [0] them. This means they don't contribute to making alternative platforms better for their use-case. Second, professional Linux development is focused on the server. No-one is really paid on the desktop side to create applications for creative professionals [1]. Most of the applications are created by "hobbyist" developers whose target audience is themselves. This means no-one is really contributing to what "creative professionals" want. The Linux desktop works for me perfectly, it's been the year of the Linux desktop since 1996 - but then I'm not a 'creative professional' or an 'accounting professional' etc etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing [1] Creative professionals are a more difficult segment than general users because they have high expectations of the platform and specific applications/use-cases.
budhajeewa 10y ago
The only problem will be having a dozen of calculators, control centers, text editors, terminal emulators, and file browsers installed on your computer, to the point you have to hunt for the correct program.

176 points by douche 10y ago

yoz-y 10y ago

I do not subscribe to the idea that it is a good thing to switch from one DE to another for specific tasks. I think it is better to learn one, master it and stick to it. Otherwise time that should be spent working is spent on tinkering with the DE.

stinkytaco 10y ago
While I agree with you personally, I also get why people do it. For some the tinkering with the DE is working, or at least having fun. It might be a form of procrastination or a genuine interest. It's not terribly different than reading productivity blogs or looking at other people's vacation photos.
digi_owl 10y ago
Well the idea is supposedly that if you get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive. Various people have a love for tiling WMs because they can navigate and organize things with the keyboard.
- falcolas 10y ago
  > get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive Does that ever actually occur? My vimrc changes almost on a daily basis, and I'm frequently changing plugins, writing new tools, and creating new aliases all time time. And that's just for my terminal. Having to repeat some of those modifications 3-4 times because I'm using a slightly different terminal app for each individual task would, I think, drive me batty.
  - jlarocco 10y ago
    > Does that ever actually occur? My vimrc changes almost on a daily basis, and I'm frequently changing plugins, writing new tools, and creating new aliases all time time. And that's just for my terminal. Don't take it the wrong way, but that sounds like a personal problem ;-) If I were changing my configuration files that often, I would start looking for an environment that worked better for me. My config editing is approximately logarithmic. There's a bunch when I start using new software (or start using old software in a new environment), but it slows down quickly as time goes by. Nowadays, I might make a big change to my .emacs once a year, and maybe tweak a variable or keyboard shortcut once every 3 months or so, but generally it doesn't change much. Same with all my other config files.
    - hsitz 10y ago
      >Don't take it the wrong way, but that sounds like a personal problem Yes, and in addition one that exists regardless of what OS/WM/DE you're running, since Vim and Emacs configuraion works basically the same whatever platform they're on.
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        And now i wonder if this is a contributing factor to a certain big name DE stripping out options...
  - hsitz 10y ago
    >Having to repeat some of those modifications 3-4 times because I'm using a slightly different terminal app for each individual task would, I think, drive me batty. I have no idea what you're talking about. What are these "slightly different terminal apps"?
    - falcolas 10y ago
      It's a play on switching WMs to handle different tasks. Perhaps not worded the best way. That said, different terminal emulators do behave differently.
  - AimHere 10y ago
    There's nothing forcing you to use the native terminal under a new DE/WM. If your neurons have hardened on the gnome-terminal way of doing things, it's no biggie to just keep using that under KDE or openbox or twm or whatever, modulo (maybe) a little twiddling of desktop shortcuts and menu entries and the like.
- yoz-y 10y ago
  I do use a tiling manager on my linux laptop, but this is mostly because on a 13" screen every pixel counts. Also, the trackpad is really not good. Nothing wrong with trying several environments until you find one which is the right one for you. But, hopping from one to another, like the article suggests, seems counterproductive to me.
reflexive 10y ago
> time that should be spent working is spent on tinkering with the DE The counterargument is that time spent optimizing your workflow by tinkering with the DE pays off 10x.

buckbova 10y ago

> If you’re using Windows, you’re pretty much stuck with the Windows interface. The menus are always going to be in the same place and while you can do things, like change your desktop image and your colors and themes, you’re still limited in how you interact with your computer. I'm not so sure about that. I used winblinds years ago for XP. Not surprised to learn that they're still around. http://www.stardock.com/products/ http://www.stardock.com/products/

boneheadmed 10y ago
Hadn't heard of it. Very cool alternative. Especially since I still can't get used to Win 10.
digi_owl 10y ago
There used to be a bunch of alternatives to explorer.exe (yep, the very same damned .exe as the file explorer), but its been ages since i played with them. They all had quirks and issues, as best i recall.
- notalaser 10y ago
  Litestep used to be very sleek at one point. I've used it for an year or two without any problems.
  - fmoralesc 10y ago
    I remember making themes (and even a "distro") for litestep when I was in highschool. Good times. The best shell I ever used for Windows in terms of productivity was a blackbox variant, xoblite (http://xoblite.net/ http://xoblite.net/).
Zikes 10y ago
I used Rainmeter and DisplayFusion to set this up as my desktop: https://goo.gl/photos/JNtxrGasR4LnRPPn6 https://goo.gl/photos/JNtxrGasR4LnRPPn6 Pardon the phone recording bit, I had difficulty finding a screen recording software that would record at a decent framerate at 4K.

drinchev 10y ago

For all interested, there is a really nice thread on reddit for showing off your desktop configuration [1]. There really are some master-pieces there. 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/

api 10y ago
Pretty really isn't the problem and hasn't been for a very long time. You can make Linux IMHO prettier than a Mac or Windows pretty easily. The problem is having to tinker. Tinkering is fine if you've got the time and enjoy it, but if you just need your computer to always "just work" this is a problem. Both Linux and Windows strike out for me here. I use a Mac because I almost never have to mess with it... I mean sometimes a year can go by between times when I have to actually mess with my machine. Nothing else does that.
- hsitz 10y ago
  I'm not sure why you think you "have to tinker". I run Ubuntu 14.04 and use i3 window manager. I haven't "tinkered" with the setup in about a year-and-a-half, dating back to when I installed i3 shortly after I got the my last computer. The default Unity DE is nice, too. I don't use it, but I could have used it all this time, can't imagine what "tinkering" would be required.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    I'll bite: I have to tinker all the time because hw compatibility still sucks. Wifi, sound, video-cards often require tinkering to get them working, especially after upgrading. They are a lot better than they used to be, but they still have a ways to go.
    - hsitz 10y ago
      I've had zero driver issues on my Asus UX305 laptop. Even if I had, those issues are generally solved once on installation, not continually tinkered with.

santaclaus 10y ago

I wish one of the major Linux distributions would double down on design as a core priority (as in, bring in designers and give them serious pull). I'd kill for a beautiful, opinionated, and novel Linux desktop environment.

digi_owl 10y ago
Err, thats what both KDE and Gnome has already done...
stinkytaco 10y ago
There are many that would argue that Gnome 3 is just that. Opinionated to the point of driving users away. Beyond that, there are many projects that I feel meet your criteria: Enlightenment, Deespin, Sugar, etc. And, of course, you can go ask the folks at i3 or wmii for an opinion, I bet they will be happy to give you several.
chadsy_ 10y ago
Check out elementary OS: https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
nixos 10y ago
>as in, bring in designers That's the mistake. You bring in UX experts (who also happened to understand your primary users) Graphics design != UX
- digi_owl 10y ago
  > who also happened to understand your primary users That would be the hard part...
AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
That appears to be the explicit goal of ElementaryOS: https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/ Personally not my cup of tea, but you might enjoy it.
michaelmrose 10y ago

rootbear 10y ago

In the environment I'm in, my Linux home directory is shared by multiple systems. Most are CentOS 6, but we're starting to use CentOS 7, too. I'm using the default Gnome 2 Desktop on 6, but Mate Desktop on 7, as I don't like Gnome 3 or the "Classic" option. I can't point to any specifics at the moment, but I've had what I think are issues of these desktops stepping on each other. Being able to switch between DEs is nice, but they have to play nicely with each other and I'm not sure that's always true. I also maintain some Solaris 10 systems and that's a whole other set of issues, sharing a home directory across different "unix family" systems.

mverwijs 10y ago
If in this case you've a /home that is an NFS mount shared across several nodes running different *nix or even Linux distros then yes, that is a problem. Centos6 will have different Gnome versions than Centos7. However, both will write in ~/.gnome, possibly .gtk, or .gtk-3.0 or wherever the hell they write to these days. Better to share your data through an nfs share in /data instead of /home and take the pain of not having the exact Desktop across different nodes. Or to create a homogenous environment with only Centos7 for example.
- rootbear 10y ago
  I'm beginning to think that's the right approach. Or, have a minimal home directory with a .bashrc that sets $HOME at login to an appropriate sub directory. Might not be too robust...

awalGarg 10y ago

One not-so-unrelated thing I really love about linux is that the "configuration" for just about every application is stored in plain-text files, mostly in the user's home directory. Which means we can use git to version control them (like many many people do - the dotfiles trend). You can have a log of configuration changes for your system, you can have various profiles with branches, etc. Want to switch to a different profile? Just `git checkout <branch-name>`, done! Want to revert some change, or see how your PC looked like 2 months ago? `git log` and `git checkout` your way through! I currently have all my configurations[1] in a dotfiles directory representing the home directory (same directory structure etc.) and symlinks to them in the actual home directory. Very easy to manage. [1]: https://github.com/awalGarg/dotfiles https://github.com/awalGarg/dotfiles

digi_owl 10y ago
For every person loving those plain texts, there are one that want to see them purged from existence. Observe how Gnome has basically recreated the registry, complete with hidden magic switches...
- lima 10y ago
  Gnome re-created the registry because they needed features that plain text files don't have. I simply have a hook for my dotfile repo which calls "dconf dump / > .dconf". This dumps the entire tree and it's nicely versioned in the repo.
  - willtim 10y ago
    The issue for me is more that they recreated the windows registry with all its flaws. For example, when uninstalling an app, can every entry associated with that app be easily removed?
    - okramcivokram 10y ago
      If app is removed, are all the relevant dotfiles removed?

manaskarekar 10y ago

Edit: Can the downvoter explain their reason? My personal favorite is the LXDE / Lubuntu 16.04 setup. All my subjective opinion, of course: - Sits in the sweet spot for bare bones distro vs batteries included. - Without decorations, I have essentially borderless applications, that I can quickly toggle the titlebars etc. - Kept sane keyboard shortcuts and did not remove them for some arbitrary reasons. Here's a random nitpick, why do some interfaces no longer allow you to press a single letter on the keyboard to launch an option from a menu, example: An option from the list of options in the File menu? - Very fast, allows a great battery life, all of ubuntu packages and ubuntu community support/troubleshooting, very easy to customize if you need to. I love it because it is an OS that stays out of my way, has a sane setup out of the box and looks awesome with the borderless windows. It is perfect in almost every way! I'm worried about their plans to switch to LXQt. It's almost like how Ubuntu 10.10 was IMHO, the pinnacle of perfection, sane choices etc, and then they decide to start all over again.

blueprint 10y ago
I hear LXDE was superseded by LXQt. http://lxqt.org http://lxqt.org
St-Clock 10y ago
My understanding is that LXDE does not support HiDPI very well because not everything is ported to gtk3. Do you have any experience to share with retina/3K/4K displays and LXDE?
benologist 10y ago
Only thing I dislike about Lubuntu is losing Mac keyboard shortcuts and hardware, a lot of them I managed to replicate and even found a (slightly unstable) Alfred alternative called Albert [1]. My Magic Mouse 2 could only work like a dumb mouse. I turned off the tray at the bottom, the window borders and set apps to start full screen, switching between full screen apps was much nicer than what remains after Apple closed off whatever Total Spaces was using. It ended up being a really productive way to work due to the lack of distraction like crap software from Apple, Adobe, 1Password, iTerm etc endlessly begging for 5 minutes so you can watch their updates download. Or all the other notifications that mostly don't need to be read or exist. [1] http://www.howopensource.com/2015/03/launcher-for-ubuntu-linux/ http://www.howopensource.com/2015/03/launcher-for-ubuntu-lin...

zedr 10y ago

The freedom of using a variety of desktop environments, and the ability to customise them down to the source code, is what got me interested in Linux in the first place. Back in 2003, I was experimenting with Rainmeter and a port of Blackbox for Windows, but became quickly frustrated about their limitations. I spent an embarassing amount of time trying out the different window managers, before settling on KDE 3. There's a downside, however: fragmentation.

theSoenke 10y ago

If there is one distro i have to recommend it's Solus. I'm usually not a fan of new distro xyz were not much except the wallpaper changed. But Solus is build from scratch and questions many old linux dogmas. It also focuses on the desktop and is probably one of the fastest distros with a great OOTB experience. It also has a very high velocity were every time you look there are new amazing improvements

mmphosis 10y ago

Oh the joy ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession

anondon 10y ago

One thing I noticed about installing multiple desktop environment on Ubuntu: they all have different default apps that are always installed. So when you have two desktop environments, you end up with 2 different terminals, 2 different file browsers, 2 different archive managers etc. You could uninstall apps that have the exact same purpose, but it would be nice if there was a formal way for DEs to recognize and acknowledge the existence of another DE. Rant: When I first wrapped my head around the concept of a desktop environment, the first thought that came to mind was: why don't Microsoft and Apple abandon their proprietary OSes and just build and maintain a solid desktop environment for Linux and the BSDs. It would save them a ton of money, resources, developers, it would improve security. The major drawback was porting the apps written for their OSes to Linux and BSDs, which was a deal breaker. Then came the announcement of Windows subsystem for Linux, first thought: incredible engineering feat but MS did the exact opposite of what I would have wanted, which was a Linux subsystem for Windows. It would have solved the issue of porting Windows apps to Linux. Now I am beginning to realize that all decisions technical or not, are just ugly politics with nice explanations to make the decisions seem like the right thing to do.

justinsaccount 10y ago
Most environments will have two packages, like: cinnamon-core - Cinnamon desktop environment - essential components cinnamon-desktop-environment - Cinnamon desktop environment - full desktop with extra components If you just want to try out the environment without all the extra stuff, you'd prefer the first package over the 2nd.
digi_owl 10y ago
> ugly politics with nice explanations And why in the long run OSS will be subverted because it exists to strip free software of politics...
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  It seems like the endless iteration of OSS stripping some politics, then someone taking it and adding different politics, which makes someone else do an OSS version without that politics, etc.

shmerl 10y ago

Waiting for KDE to switch to Wayland at last. The progress is slow, but steady: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/ Some major applications are still behind. For instance Firefox: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134

kevinvdburgt 10y ago

That is one of the reasons i like Linux very much! Still, bspwm is my favoriete because i van everything togheter as i want :) And a tilingwm is increasing my workflow! Still considering to leave osx (or called macOS these days) behind. But there is still the osx only software problem.

adrianlmm 10y ago

I'm more productive when using GNOME, to me is the most usable DE out there.

nolepointer 10y ago
Some design choices for GNOME simply escape me. By default, no window buttons (i.e. active windows) on the top panel. By default, no maximize/minimize buttons for windows. Who could possibly find that user-friendly?
- symlinkk 10y ago
  > no maximize/minimize buttons for windows why do you use the maximize / minimize buttons? If you're just trying to see a different app, wouldn't alt+tab do the same thing? > no window buttons (i.e. active windows) on the top panel why do you need to see a running list of everything that's open in your face at all times? it seems to me like the only time you should need this information is when you're switching apps. you can also see this information by pressing the Super (aka Windows) key. also, afaik i3 doesn't show you all of the running applications at once either, but no one ever complains about that.
  - alphapapa 10y ago
    > why do you use the maximize / minimize buttons? To maximize and minimize windows? > If you're just trying to see a different app, wouldn't alt+tab do the same thing? Can you alt+tab with a mouse? > why do you need to see a running list of everything that's open in your face at all times? A taskbar at the edge of the screen is "in your face"? What if the panel auto-hides? > it seems to me like the only time you should need this information is when you're switching apps. And by hiding that information, you add an extra step to the process. The one-step "click on taskbar button" becomes the two-step "activate the window list, click on window button". > i3 doesn't show you all of the running applications at once either, but no one ever complains about that. That's because people who use i3 don't want that feature. People who do don't use it. GNOME used to have it, but threw it away--along with many other features. Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone uses their computer the same way you do?

aarghh 10y ago

Speaking of window managers - is there a successor/branch of scwm (Scheme Constrained Window Manager) that is being maintained currently? I loved how that worked...

seanwilson 10y ago

I used to love the choice after being limited by Windows but it meant all the development and design efforts were split between different desktop environments so mixing apps from different desktop systems was an awkward user experience. I preferred KDE the most but I never understood the obsession with the number of customisation options. These surely slowed down development and it felt like you had to be the UX designer yourself instead of sensible defaults behind chosen. Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done.

type0 10y ago
> Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done. Try Ubuntu MATE, if you want minimal customization you have some preconfigured defaults in MATE Tweak tool, if you ever want to customize more its super easy compared to every other DE I've tried.
slgeorge 10y ago
> Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done. The difficulty is that one persons "sensible default" is anothers "crazy terrible default". Particularly in the Linux world, fuelled by it being committed hobbyists who create much of the desktop software and the tradition of UNIX configurability.

bitwize 10y ago

I get to experience the joy of not having a desktop environment; of using a bare WM, the shell, and 30-year-old Unix skills to work with my system. It's a good feeling.

gooseyard 10y ago
I feel the same way; although I've spent some time with both Gnome and KDE, I never developed an attachment to either of them, mostly because I felt that there was a good likelihood that mastering the Gnome of today might be a pointless exercise because if you sat me down in front of the Gnome of one year from now, it'd be unrecognizable to me. Around the advent of Gnome 3/KDE 4 I also realized that I didn't really use any of the Gnome or KDE apps. If I want to burn a cd, I know wodim well. If I want to listen to music, I probably use my phone. The browser is the only desktop app that I use regularly, and that's fairly agnostic. I've spent years tweaking rxvt Xresources, for example, such that I can drop it on a brand new machine and everything behaves as I expect. I'm well past the point in my career where I'd be looking for, say, a better terminal emulator, or shell, or chat app or any of that stuff; the stuff I've got is working as well as I could hope, and when I need something new I can compose it from the abilities that the shell and the window manager expose. The last big change I made was after I tried a tiling WM (Xmonad) for a couple of days and realized right away I'd never go back; that's been 7 or 8 years ago. Occasionally stuff changes underneath me in ways that seem somewhat capricious (Pulse Audio, Systemd) but I usually give that stuff a chance and try to adapt to it unless its absolutely unbearable. I enjoy checking out the new stuff on machines I use at home for fun, but at work I treat the workstation as an instrument; I know what I want and almost everything has a reason.
slgeorge 10y ago
I've been going through a similar experience over the last few years, mostly driven by my hardware getting older and not handling the requirements of modern DE's (when I'd prefer the resource to be used for applications). It's nice stripping back to the original structures, though it does feel like computer archaeology sometimes. There's a lot of services in the upper layers that have to be switched off to get back to plain .xinitrc and Xresources! On the upside, I know my configuration and it's all in a repository now!

copperx 10y ago

At first I thought this was a sarcastic post.

bengalister 10y ago

I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.10) as my primary desktop and failed again. I tried yearly since year 2000. But again in late 2016 I switched back to Windows (10) and MacOs. Driver support is getting better but so are my expectations and Linux (well Ubuntu) doesn't seem to catch up fast enough. For instance I failed having my dual graphic cards be used in extended mode with the my native laptop screen and an external HDMI screen monitor. My bluetooth headset has a hard time being recognized by the OS I have to retry many times. And I cannot have sound through on my monitor connected to HDMI output of my Nvidia graphical card. Maybe I used the wrong distro, but all these issues are non-existent when I switch to Windows 10. Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup.

rifung 10y ago
> Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup. Indeed every time I think of getting a new laptop or desktop, I try to do research into how well Linux will run on the hardware. Thankfully there seem to be a decent number of laptops that have Linux preinstalled now. As much as I enjoy tinkering, even after using Linux for a while I still don't have a strong understanding of how things work, and it's frustrating to be forced to tinker when my intention was to get things done. Perhaps I need to dedicate more time to understanding how things work?
- madamelic 10y ago
  I had the same opinion of Linux as you. I didn't want to tinker with it and get everything working well. Just install Ubuntu. Ignore everyone saying Ubuntu is a kiddy OS ("All you need is X, Y, Z-ix"). Ubuntu is Linux Windows (not really, but it is pretty hard to mess up).
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    More like Mac Linux. Neon or openSuse is more Windows-like IMO.
  - dhimes 10y ago

milkytron 10y ago

Although this blog entry is entirely about desktop interfaces, he does mention that > ...Windows, OS X, iOS, and Android, have one common interface... This is true for the first three without significant modification, but it isn't true for Android. One of my favorite things about Android when I had it was the ability to choose a launcher right from the app store. You can completely change your home screen interface with a downloadable app, and it's actually much easier to do than it is on linux last time I checked. For desktops I agree, Linux has the most customization when it comes to the interface. But on Android, it's just as customizable as a Linux desktop(I mean... it is Linux after all).

nathcd 10y ago
I agree mostly, but > on Android, it's just as customizable as a Linux desktop I wouldn't say is true. For android launchers to be functionally equivalent to (or as customizable as) linux DEs, they'd have to be able to customize android's nav bar, pull-down menu, settings app, recents menu, and split screen/tiling/windowing. At the moment, these are all handled at the OS level. Not that android's launcher concept isn't cool, but it's definitely not as flexible as DEs.
- milkytron 10y ago
  I agree, the launcher isn't as customizable as a linux desktop. To change the entirety of a linux user interface is much easier on a linux desktop. But nonetheless, Android is still quite customizable, and the other interfaces you mentioned (nav bar, pull down menu, etc) are still customizable if you're able to flash a custom ROM. It's all possible, but desktop Linux is much easier to fiddle around with in that manner. Nonetheless, I think Android should've been left out of that group in the OP. Not a big deal, but for someone who used to tinker with Android quite a bit, I couldn't resist commenting the point.

lottin 10y ago

Nice article, but what's wrong with that page? ublock reports 409 requests blocked and increasing...

tyrust 10y ago
You can click on the uBlock icon and open the logger (little icon that looks like a window with lines) to see which requests are being blocked. I'm seeing xhr's to https://collector-medium.lightstep.com/api/v0/reports https://collector-medium.lightstep.com/api/v0/reports being blocked every few seconds. Probably some medium analytics request.

sandGorgon 10y ago

Ubuntu has turned into this franken-beast that is simply not cutting it for me anymore. Right from the installer (that doesn't work well on XPS 13 with name) to Unity to Mir. Fedora 24 has been brilliant and works awesome out of the box. I am constantly recommending F24 to people and have never had a bad experience.

fapjacks 10y ago
If you don't like the installer, Unity, or Mir, just go download Linux Mint with Cinnamon and be done with it.
willtim 10y ago
Ubuntu are playing a (very long) game. If they manage it, IMHO they'll be in a better place than Fedora's UI which is built on a stack that increasingly only Redhat will continue to develop.
- vondur 10y ago
  I would argue that RedHat is in a better position to do most of the development of the Gnome desktop and Wayland vs Canonical being able to manage the transition to Mir and keep Unity going.
  - willtim 10y ago
    Ubuntu won't need to develop Qt, it has an increasingly vibrant community.
- sandGorgon 10y ago
  Just like systemd, Wayland and the kernel right ? Are you aware that Redhat actually employs most of the kernel devs ? Ubuntu does not have the "people's stack" ... It's just another company building a stack that is not as good.
  - willtim 10y ago
    I was specifically talking about the UI. Which is more of a priority for Ubuntu as they are trying to build a desktop OS.

jokoon 10y ago

I think the core of the argument about linux is not about having a well designed system that works well, but that it should be an american technology that dominates, and not anything that is managed by a non american, especially if he is against corporatism and tend to do things in a way that can be perceived as arrogant. So basically, linux will not prosper as long as it is not in the interest of the US.

nols 10y ago
Linux is extremely successful though, just not on the desktop.
type0 10y ago
> and not anything that is managed by a non american Linus is naturalized though: https://lwn.net/Articles/404729/ https://lwn.net/Articles/404729/

roider 10y ago

Tiling window managers like i3 seem to allow the perfect mixture of terminal and graphics. After spending some time using i3 I've noticed (when using for work, etc.)that desktop environments universally seem extremely inefficient and slow. For certain types of tasks a mouse is essential, but being forced to use it for nearly everything in OSX seems like a massive waste of time. I'd like to see a study on efficiency among proficient users of desktop environments and proficient users of WM. Users who view themselves as fluent in an OSX desktop environment and users who view themselves as fluent in a WM(say i3) probably spend different amounts of time executing the same tasks. IMO not having to use the mouse as frequently seems like a tremendous efficiency booster.

Symmetry 10y ago
What I do is run a tiling window manager inside a desktop environment. XMonad inside Gnome is what I'm using right now. For 95% of what I do every day I'm just using the keyboard but when I do something unusual there's still the friendlyish GUI to take care of it. On Ubuntu it's just a matter of sudo apt-add-repository ppa:gekkio/xmonad sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install gnome-session-xmonad

AceJohnny2 10y ago

I remember when I discovered Unix as a college freshman (HP-UX with CDE), I spent way too much time fiddling with the desktop settings. For a while I even ran a buggy Enlightenment because wow was it pretty. I loved trying out new visual styles. I spent so much time on wallpapers. It took me years before I realized that what I really wanted to optimize was app layout. Any screen space that wasn't used by an app was wasted space. Space I could use to have a few extra lines in a terminal, a few extra columns of code... I used AwesomeWM for a few years because I loved its concept of "tagging" windows which let you mix-and-match which you were displaying at a given time (this is my "all code" setting, that's my "all terms", and this is my "some code some term..."). Now I'm on macOS and I dearly miss it. Anyhow, I haven't looked at a desktop wallpaper in years, and I like my window decorations as minimalistic as possible.

psadauskas 10y ago
I'm in the same boat, I used AwesomeWM for several years, before switching to OSX around 2010, just because the Mac hardware was superior to just about everything else, but I always felt crippled in the window manager. iTerm2 + tmux can get close, but switching to the browser never "fit" in that flow. A few weeks ago I switched back to Linux on a NUC, and its like I've come home again.
- AceJohnny2 10y ago
  Which NUC? I've been eyeing one for a while, and am always looking for recommendations :)

city41 10y ago

I think even more importantly, Linux allows DEs and WMs to do practically anything they want. The window manager i3 simply is not possible on OSX. OSX tiling window managers use the accessibility API as a hack, and it's just not very good at all. I can't even begin to express how much I love i3. I literally switched from OSX just for i3, it's made me that much more efficient, focused, less frustrated and allows me to use my ultrawide monitor to its fullest potential.

hellofunk 10y ago

Has anyone got a comment on his book, mentioned in the article, Learn Linux in a Month of Lunches? Good, ok, not good...?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tracker1 10y ago

I was a pretty big fan of the LiteStep desktop environment for windows... very configurable.

macawfish 10y ago

I love Gnome 3. Just wanted to pitch that! Didn't used to, but the extension system, as it matures, is making Gnome 3 awesome!

z3t4 10y ago

Unity tip: Use the windows key + number to start or switch between programs. Then when you've learned the keys you can hide the menu bar.

habosa 10y ago

This year my MacbookPro died (battery exploded). Since I was frustrated with Apple's lack of support for this extreme case and the fact that the new models can't be repaired, I bought an Asus UX305LA and loaded Ubuntu onto it. I have used Ubuntu at work for a few years but this was the first time I went with Linux at home. For the most part, I love it! The whole OS seems to be really light on resources and the UI is pretty nice these days. It also passes a critical test, which is when I hand my laptop to a non-technical friend they don't even notice it's running anything uncommon. Chrome is Chrome I guess :-) One thing that kills me is the fact that Linux is basically left in the dust when it comes to media on the web. I can't watch HBO Go, installing Flash player requires a PhD, and many websites just tell you to go away for using an "unsupported operating system".

alphapapa 10y ago
> Chrome is Chrome...installing Flash player requires a PhD Huh? Chrome has Flash built-in, and for everything else, just `apt-get install flashplugin-installer`.

mwkaufma 10y ago

Cargo cultism is alive and well! So many _feelings_ of variety! 2016 is the year of the linux desktop, just like 2015, 2014, 2013... So many options of ways to lay out windows but fewer than half the actual applications creative professionals need to do their job, so we're still stuck on Mac or Windows.

slgeorge 10y ago
But, the reality is that "creative professionals" have very few reasons to change platforms as Mac/Windows satisfises [0] them. This means they don't contribute to making alternative platforms better for their use-case. Second, professional Linux development is focused on the server. No-one is really paid on the desktop side to create applications for creative professionals [1]. Most of the applications are created by "hobbyist" developers whose target audience is themselves. This means no-one is really contributing to what "creative professionals" want. The Linux desktop works for me perfectly, it's been the year of the Linux desktop since 1996 - but then I'm not a 'creative professional' or an 'accounting professional' etc etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing [1] Creative professionals are a more difficult segment than general users because they have high expectations of the platform and specific applications/use-cases.

budhajeewa 10y ago

The only problem will be having a dozen of calculators, control centers, text editors, terminal emulators, and file browsers installed on your computer, to the point you have to hunt for the correct program.