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VoCore2 Lite – A $4, coin-sized, open-source Linux computer
- noja 10y agoApples and oranges.
- willvarfar 10y agoSo specifically most comparable to a Raspberry Pi Zero? At least price-wise, but not peripheral-wise?
- simosx 10y agoThese loud footsteps at a distance are from the ESP32 approaching. (yeah, does not run the Linux kernel but it is going to be quite open this time)
- woah 10y agoWhat is it
- NTripleOne 10y agoOooohhh I'm sorry, we were looking for "What is google".
- pjmlp 10y agoI think those devices are wasted running a full OS stack for a single purpose, better have a nice baremetal runtime, unikernel style. The problem being that for most use cases, for the price many of these boards cost, the majority will just go with the Linux option and install something like Yocto.
- swah 10y agoTrue... Without Linux, the projects are generally sensors, relays, LEDs. With Linux, "smart" displays, USB webcams, OpenCV.
- pjmlp 10y ago> With Linux, "smart" displays, USB webcams, OpenCV. You can do that without Linux, it is just a matter of having bare metal drivers, the only issue is if it is worth doing so from the ROI point of view.
- harperlee 10y agoYes but that is quite more work than "apt-get install opencv", and thar is an incredible barrier to to entry for a lot of projects from a lot of people with less expertise and/or time.
- pantalaimon 10y agoThe main selling point of Linux is portability and by that code reuse across a wide array of use cases. Sure you could build a hardware abstraction layer for different processors and implement drivers on top of that, but you won't get the same traction/networking effect of Linux anytime soon. Same goes for software stacks (TCP/IP, USB, WiFi, file systems, etc) which have been running on billions of devices before if you use linux. The overhead of using Linux is in the range of 1-2MiB [1] so once your application requires external Ram because it doesn't fit the on-chip SRAM, you might as well use Linux. [1] http://www.emcraft.com/stm32f429discovery/what-is-minimal-footprint http://www.emcraft.com/stm32f429discovery/what-is-minimal-fo...
- pjmlp 10y agoAgree, hence why I mentioned that for the price those boards cost, going Linux might be what the majority will do. On the other hand I look at chips like the ESP32, and given that my coding skills started on Z80 computers, 512 KB is more than enough and actually more fun to use. Given the set of high level programming languages I was using in those days, there is plenty of juice to squeeze out of those types of MCUs.
- extra88 10y agoQuantities may be limited but ESP32 boards are "here." Bare modules are a little under $10. https://www.adafruit.com/products/3320 https://www.adafruit.com/products/3320 https://www.adafruit.com/product/3269 https://www.adafruit.com/product/3269 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13907 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13907
- legulere 10y agoDoes the PCIe support mean you could use NVMe ssds? Storage is the biggest problem with most single board computers as it usually goes over USB or uses unreliable SD cards.
- dlss 10y agoAre there cheap NVMe cards? My only experience with NVMe is in the context of ~$250+ SSDs... which seems like an odd pairing with a $4 processor.
- scq 10y agoEven more so if you consider that the SSD likely has a more powerful processor than the VoCore.
- imtringued 10y agoAnd PCIe 1.1 is going to bottleneck the SSD.
- Senji 10y agoI'm waiting for an "open" SSD for which you could modify the firmware to include your own little program stack. Just run your entire little sensor/project out of the HDD itself.
- legulere 10y agoBeginning at 54€ for 128GB according to geizhals: http://geizhals.eu/?cat=hdssd&xf=4832_3&sort=p http://geizhals.eu/?cat=hdssd&xf=4832_3&sort=p
- unwind 10y agoThis looks kind of neat, if perhaps not super-accessible. The pinout diagram has the best named pin in a while, "P0RN" is a classic (http://vonger.cn/?p=2666 http://vonger.cn/?p=2666). :) Btw that page seems to lack a legend, I guess purple is Ethernet.
- makomk 10y agoYeah, it's Ethernet. P0RN is the negative half of the receive pair for ethernet port 0.
- monocasa 10y agoWell yeah, it'd have to be the receive on the Ethernet, it is porn after all.
- pitaj 10y agoYeah I agree on the accessibility. I have version 1, and I haven't even touched it yet. That's in contrast to the RPi, which I immediately began hacking with when I got it. VoCore just seems daunting.
- anotheryou 10y agoHow do you use it without storage? (can you use it without the connectors?) If there was a mini-sd I could imagine: put some image on it that knows your wifi, ssh in to it. So if i manage to solder in power and plug in my spare antenna here it might work. Probably you can even just cut some wire of the right size and program it next to your router, my directional antenna is not much more (just some tin can for the directional part).
- bronson 10y agoIt has 8MB of NOR storage. Sure, you aren't putting Debian on there, but it'll take your wifi creds.
- anotheryou 10y agoAh ok, great.
- jandrese 10y agoI think the intention is that you run something like DD-WRT on it. 8MB of storage is a bit tight even for DD-WRT however, if I was looking at these boards I would seriously consider splurging on the $12 model to avoid the low storage headaches. If I were building a hundred or more devices I'd do the work to make the $4 version work, but for a one-off it's not worth the headache. The PCIe option is surprising. I'm not sure what I would use it for, but it does open up some unusual possibilities.
- kogepathic 10y ago> 8MB of storage is a bit tight even for DD-WRT however 8MB of NOR flash is totally standard for a vast majority of consumer routers. OpenWrt/LEDE will happily fit on 8MB with around 4MB available as /overlay (e.g. for additional packages or data). > The PCIe option is surprising. I'm not sure what I would use it for, but it does open up some unusual possibilities. You can use PCI-e for 5GHz WiFi (most common use for PCIe on this SoC line). You can also buy SATA controllers or Gigabit Ethernet in mini-PCIe form factor. Most UMTS/LTE modems in mini-PCIe form factor are actually only utilizing the USB pins in a mini-PCIe slot, so you don't actually need PCIe for those.
- chrisacky 10y agoCan anyone recommend a device whihc has Wifi and supports MONITOR mode? I can't find any information on this device, but essentially I'm looking for something which: - Supports WIFI to connect the device to a network - Supports WIFI promiscuous mode _ALSO_ so that I can listen to PROBE requests from devices in the area - Linux.. Seems like a really hard search?
- eximius 10y agoMaybe find one that can use a USB wifi w/ promiscuous mode? I bet you can probably find a small one of those
- pbhjpbhj 10y agoHave you tried searching for the use-case instead and seeing what hardware other people use. I've seen somewhere battery powered WiFi sniffing units, possibly on CCC.de or mentioned in a blackhat conference video.
- Retr0spectrum 10y agoI bought one of these things for £5: https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/unbranded/a5-v11 https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/unbranded/a5-v11 It has slightly inferior specs, but it has ethernet, USB, and 150M WiFi built in.
- voltagex_ 10y agoHey, it's the VoCore again. I've got one of the first ones... somewhere. It comes exactly as it looks in the photo and was unfortunately far too small for me to solder the headers on to.
- pulse7 10y ago$4 will buy you: 580MHz CPU, 64MB RAM, 8MB NOR storage, Wi-Fi. $5 will buy you Raspberry Pi Zero: 1 GHz CPU, 512 MB, 1 Micro-USB, camera interface (CSI), Mini-HDMI. So if you need WiFi, VoCore is cheaper.
- mkesper 10y agoI guess you're not able to run mainline kernel on it?
- nickez 10y agoMy experience with mediatek is that they are awful at publishing their linux kernel source code.
- mattthebaker 10y agoGenerally, don't touch anything with mediatek or allwinner if you want it to work at the end of the day. Their driver support is very bad. Funny personal story, I turned down a contract almost four years ago that would have involved getting 3D running on an Allwinner based board. Four years later and CHIP is demoing an "Alpha" of 3D on Allwinner. Meanwhile even hardware accelerated 3D and video decoding works on the Broadcom SoCs in the Pi, and has for years. Mediatek and Allwinner are cheap, but useless.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- wycx 10y agoDon't know about mainline, but there is some OpenWrt support for other boards with the MT7688 e.g. https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/seeed/linkit7688 https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/seeed/linkit7688
- cheiVia0 10y agoLooks like it might be (partially) supported: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=MT7688 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=MT...
- Symbiote 10y agoThis is cool, but the $4 version isn't comparable with the Raspberry Pi. The version with connectors and a case costs $39. The Raspberry Pi 3 with connectors and a case is sold for $35 at the first US retailer I found.
- NetStrikeForce 10y agoIt is being compared to the Raspberry Pi Zero, which costs about $5 and it is closer on concept to this VoCore2Lite.
- gambiting 10y agoYes, but the zero already has all the connectors. You plug in the power and hdmi, and it's a fully working machine. This is a board that requires some soldering skills, and it's a really high barier to entry I find.
- pantalaimon 10y agoThis isn't intended as a replacement for your desktop computer - most applications don't even require hdmi and afaik the VoCore doesn't support one anyway. This computer is intended for integration in another device that you want to control via WiFi any maybe some more. It's neither a Workstation nor a Mediacenter.
- gambiting 10y agoSure, but my point is that you can't use this without taking out a soldering iron. It doesn't matter how you want to use it - you just can't, until you solder on some connectors/cables to it. Pi Zero is one dollar more expansive and it doesn't require any soldering. As someone who really hates soldering things, it's a big barrier to entry.
- zgramana 10y agoThe makers of this product would even tell you that you aren't in the target market. This is a System On Module, not a Single Board Computer. The later is a "unbox, boot up, and play" experience. The former is "unbox, wire into my existing circuits, standup the board, start coding" experience.
- CalRobert 10y ago"Both versions of the VoCore2 have a power consumption of 74mA at standby, and 230mA at full speed. " It's great to know how much current it draws, but that doesn't tell me how much power it draws. "How powerful is your new car?" "Oh super powerful! It's got 3 inch diameter fuel lines!" ...
- msl 10y agoIt is quite unclear. It seems, however, that it runs at 5 volts, so I guess we are looking at 370mW and 1,15W. Explaining the power requirements clearly would really be important for a product like this.
- employee8000 10y agoSince many batteries, especially rechargeable ones, post their mA*hour numbers it makes sense to talk about current.
- castratikron 10y agoIt says the power supply can be anywhere between 3.2V to 6.0V. So about 1W at full speed and maybe a fifth of that on standby.
- paulftw 10y agoI know measuring power in amps is against everything high school physics told us, but it's a really common approach in electronics engineering. They literally do that all the time. I think a sentence or two later the official site gives an explanation why: lipo battery sizes are measured in mAh, so dividing battery size by current you get hours of operation. I'm still a noob when it comes to microelectronics, but my understanding is almost every chip runs on 3.3v, lipo batteries are 3.2-3.7v depending on charge level. When they talk about power in amps they assume everyone knows they mean at 3.3v
- kabdib 10y agoStill a lot of 5V stuff around. I was working on consumer electronics (tens of millions of units sold) just a few years ago that were still 5V.
- olegkikin 10y ago$5 buys you Raspberry Pi Zero: 512MB RAM, 1GHz CPU, MicroSD slot, 40 I/O pins, mini-HDMI, microUSB.
- ohstopitu 10y agojust out of curiosity: where would I be able to get one? they seem to be perpetually out of stock (at the $5 price point).
- Mark_B 10y agoSays in stock on Adafruit https://www.adafruit.com/product/2885 https://www.adafruit.com/product/2885
- pantalaimon 10y agoBut no WiFi - that's the big difference here imo.
- rahimnathwani 10y agoI just (10 mins ago) ordered one from Pimoroni. 6.50GBP including the cheapest domestic shipping option. That's 8.14USD. There's no way to save on shipping by buying multiple units, as the limit is 1 per customer. I'm guessing shipping (the padded bag plus postage) costs them about 80p, so in reality I paid about $7, not $5. About $1 of that is tax.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- gravypod 10y agoIs there any on board ADC/DAC? Using this for data acquisition would be great.
- digikata 10y agoIncreasingly, I tend to judge these systems from an availability of documentation for the core SoC. It means if there's a specific problem I can go digging into fix it myself, or that the open source community can dig into the support better in general and you have fewer issues/better support in the first place. Esp with hobby development, I'd rather save time in having the system documented then $5-10 bucks on the hardware cost.
- devy 10y agoVoCore team on their site[1] said that VoCore2 Lite is "very very close" to cost. I concur, as the heart of that VoCore2 board - MediaTek MT7688AN SoC chip costs between $2.79 and $3.35 (depending on the order quantity) on the Alibaba wholesale site[2]. Congrats to VoCore team to make low cost IoT DIY projects possible and affordable for students. PS: If you weren't familiar with MediaTek, their SoC chip was the King of Shanzhai culture[3] during early iPhone era. [1] http://vonger.cn/ http://vonger.cn/ [2] https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-and-original-IC-CHip-MT7688AN_60377763139.html https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-and-origin... [3] http://www.core-corner.com/Web2/GsMaterialDB/HC_HBRC_9/2014-10-08/98lr9wq2_20140725.PDF http://www.core-corner.com/Web2/GsMaterialDB/HC_HBRC_9/2014-...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- znpy 10y agoJust "bought" one from the indiegogo campaign. Does anyone know when will they be shipping? No hurry, just want to know when to shedule in my agenda to check whether it's shipping or not.
- cheiVia0 10y agoHuh, looks like this is MIPS not ARM: http://www.datasheet4u.com/datasheet-pdf/MEDIATEK/MT7688AN/pdf.php?id=935554 http://www.datasheet4u.com/datasheet-pdf/MEDIATEK/MT7688AN/p...