16 ms·

Apple just told the world it has no idea who the Mac is for

320 points by uptown 10y ago

Fifer82 10y ago
fools? :D
programminggeek 10y ago
Bizarrely, it's almost to the point where Microsoft is making better computers than Apple.
- treve 10y ago
  And Dell! XPS13
  - Skunkleton 10y ago
    What a time to be alive!
  - mhomde 10y ago
    I bizarrely think dell currently is making the best laptops in the market. The surface book is "sexier" and both that and the Macbook pro has better industrial design than the XPS's ... and the XPS's had some quality problems to start of with... but those screens, specs and connection to what professionals need without doing trippy things like removing USB ports has pushed them to the forefront. If Dell just could gain a tad more "design soul" and shake some our horrible memories of the stodgy Dell of the past I think they're in a prime position ... then again the PC market is apparently shrinking so who knows. There seems to be an ever widening divergence between mainstream consumers and professionals, and the companies haven't quite figured out to react, or they have and we don't like it.
    - smoe 10y ago
      I love the xps13 since I bought one in 2015. But I hope they improved their shipping experience vastly. I was really close to try to cancel my order and just get a mac again after waiting for almost 2 months without any updates to the tracking page besides the package leaving China within a couple of days, nor any helpful answers from dell or the delivery company. Initial eta was ~21 days.
      - mhomde 10y ago
        that's a bit ironic considering one of the things that made Dell successful was their manufacturing logistics :) But yeah, I think that's one of Dell's problems, it feels like an enterprise behemoth without a soul nor a good brand. It's kinda natural for the sector they normally operate it, but still
  - endemic 10y ago
    What bizarre alternate reality am I living in where a Dell is being considered an alternative to Apple hardware? Even crazier: I feel the same way.
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      I think Dell turned it around when they went private. While they were still public, I pretty much hated everything they made.
    - dingaling 10y ago
      Something bad happened to Dell corporate laptop design after 2008. Up until then, every Latitude D4xx or D6xx that I had used was rock-solid and easy to maintain and upgrade. Solid magnesium-alloy chassis and case nearly indestructible. Around 2010 they started segmenting their product line much more and design quality fell through the floor. We briefly had some 'small business' Vostro laptops with sharp edges that hurt when you typed, and Latitude E<something> on which you couldn't open the lid without holding the base. The old Latitude Ds just kept working... Recently, possibly as a result of the share buy-back, it sounds like they've found their feet again and I'm willing to give the XPS or Precision a try.
- vesak 10y ago
  Almost? They were well on that route already with the Surface line, and the latest events just hammered it in. If they get a good small (4,5" range) Surface phone out, I'm out of the Apple game for good :)
- empath75 10y ago
  Now that windows has bash, especially.
- ihaveahadron 10y ago
  microsoft always made better products, apple sucks at making products. they are just good at advertising. microsoft should get better at advertising and apple should get better at making computers
sickbeard 10y ago
Tim Cook seems to be one of those CEOs who sits in his office doesn't participate in the innovation process, while Jobs took a more hands on approach to drive innovations to its ultimate form. I can't imagine someone presenting this "touchbar" bullspit to Jobs and not getting fired right away for such a dumb idea.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  C'mon. Someone presented the hockey puck mouse to Jobs and not only survived, but got it into production.
  - acdha 10y ago
    Not to mention the Mighty Mouse with the lint-magnet scroll ball, their entire server strategy, and countless software decisions like the iTunes UI, multiple generations of cloud services which were clumsy and confusing, etc. Jobs was good at what he focused on and other things tended to languish. For the last half decade, everyone has been focused on iOS. Cook seems to be getting the blame for basically doing roughly the same thing while not being Steve Jobs.
- wxs 10y ago
  Like Bret Victor? Who seems to have been involved in presenting this to Jobs? I'd say he's a pretty interesting guy and probably not worth firing even if you don't like one of his proposals. https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/641705818585337856 https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/641705818585337856
- _red 10y ago
  Its hard to give a meaningful critique of Tim Cook as CEO online since you are attacked either by the fanboys, shills, or haters. However, I think its becoming increasingly clear that Tim is "not a product development CEO". He is clearly, by far, probably one of the best COO's of the last 100 years (yes, I'm totally serious). Apple would've never had its rebirth if not for the duo of Jobs as product visionary and Cook as executor. Sadly with Jobs passing, Apple is slowly sliding back to the confused, overlapping, inconsistent product catalog circa 1998.
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brandur 10y ago
The article's inclusion of this quote from Tim Cook comes pretty close to summing up the whole situation: “I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” – Tim Cook, talking about the iPad Pro It's time to face the fact that Apple doesn't care about professionals and never has. With the release of the original Intel MacBook Pro in 2006 they created a near perfect computer that would come to dominate the market amongst developers for the next ten years. What we don't acknowledge though is that this was purely an accident. While Apple had intended to build nice hardware and a stable OS, the Unix-y nature of the OS that that helped capture the hearts of developers was never exposed in an intentional way. What we're seeing with the new MBP is a regression back to the core Apple value that are already so prominent on the iPhone and iPad: form over function. Why have a headphone jack when you can make the bottom of the phone more symmetrical and shave 0.2 mm off the case depth? Why do you need a physical keyboard when the iPad's virtual one is just fine for writing emails? Expect more of the same on future changes to the lineup.
- deleted 10y ago
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- bluejekyll 10y ago
  <SadMac> I'll reserve judgement on the new TouchBar, since I haven't had a chance to play with one. I'll say this, though, what they've done is dipped their toe into the fully programmable keyboard space: http://www.geeknaut.com/cool-computer-keyboards-2219350.html http://www.geeknaut.com/cool-computer-keyboards-2219350.html This could be a stepping stone to a fully redrawable keyboard. Not saying I want such a thing, but it's interesting. imagine the entire keyboard surface being the TouchBar? It would suck (I think) for typing, but it would certainly differentiate itself from the iPad, and would start making for custom controls that augment the display. In some cases I could see this as a better experience than just a pure touchscreen (though it would probably be very niche). Anyway, even with all of the negatives you mentioned, it's still going to be the best Unix laptop out there. My dream is that HP or Dell find a backbone, and starts pitching supporting and building a perfect Linux (pick any distro really) laptop to devs, or maybe Google makes ChromeOS, that perfect OS. Until then...
3chelon 10y ago
Almost as soon as I heard the sad news about Steve Jobs I feared this would happen. It also coincides with the 15-year cycle that seems to happen in tech and certain financial markets. Let's face it, Apple can't be top dog forever. Google has lasted longer than it should have. And if I were Zuckerberg I'd be concerned what's around the corner. And without the visionary leadership of a Jobs, a Gates, a whoever, these companies stop innovating and change into something else. At least this is the second time round for Apple. But I fear that without Jobs there may be no way back.
- marrone12 10y ago
  That's why Zuck has been very aggressive with acquisitions, to future proof the company. He's bought two of his biggest competitors, Instagram and Whatsapp, and Oculus which could be the future. I'm pretty pleased with his corporate foresight.
  - kamaal 10y ago
    You can only find your way out by buying and killing your competitors for that much time. Sooner or later some one will do something you won't notice and suddenly you will be irrelevant.
    - 72deluxe 10y ago
      Yes and Internet users are very fickle. In particular, users used to a free product evaporate when charges arise. The endless struggle to stay relevant kills them. For examples see MySpace, Friendster, Bebo, Twitter....
- mtgx 10y ago
  Apple should've made Elon Musk its CEO as soon as it could after Steve Jobs passed away. Now it's likely too late with the merger of Tesla and Solar City happening, and the merged company being on an explosive growth path. Musk is also likely too busy now with SpaceX's ITS system and the landing on Mars to worry about making great Macs and iPhones.
Skunkleton 10y ago
Anyone have specifics on what processors are in the 13" model? It looks like it might be one of the U skus. Not very pro...
- malensek 10y ago
  I believe you are correct, the base model with touchbar has a i5-6267U.
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Bud 10y ago
This is a foolish article, through and through. Let's examine this silliness: The thing is, I can’t figure out who this is for other than those who are on really old machines. Myself, and everyone else, seems to be wondering what, exactly, is the selling point of this upgrade. I have a MacBook Pro 15" from 2013 and it’s still going strong and the majority of the time it’s plugged into a large display for creative work, coding or whatever. Um, the selling point is that it's more than twice as fast for graphics and many operations, jumps forward TWO GENERATIONS in CPU, has much faster storage, is significantly smaller and lighter, etc. In other words, it's more of an upgrade than the MBP line has had in several years. Touch Bar is a great example of this. First, it feels like an excuse to not just add touch to the Mac in the first place. While Microsoft is busy letting you touch the entire display, Apple’s making you look down at your keyboard to interact instead — bizarre. That's because being able to touch the entire display is stupid and does not work ergonomically unless you are holding the device IN YOUR HANDS, which doesn't work for a laptop, obviously. Apple examined this idea and rejected it. On purpose. Then the article gripes about there being two versions of the 13" MB Pro and asking why they don't call the non-touch-strip version the MB Air. The obvious answer is that there is already a MB Air, which is a different model and still for sale. The event also left Apple with a ton of bizarre loose ends. At the iPhone event in September, Apple told the world that headphone jacks were dead because wireless headphones are superior — so why is there a headphone jack on the Mac? Even worse, Apple has delayed its wireless headphones which were supposed to change the world. No. Apple did not tell the world that headphone jacks were dead. Apple told the world that they couldn't justify putting one in the iPhone because of its form factor, which is of course entirely different. And no, Apple's wireless headphones were not "supposed to change the world". Lastly, if AirPods are not ready to ship, they aren't ready to ship and it would be obvious idiocy to ship them. Why can’t you plug the Lightning headphones that come in the iPhone box into the new Mac? Why can't you plug basically ANY headphones shipping today into the vast majority of amplifiers shipping today, which have 1/4" jacks, without using an adapter? Why doesn’t the iPhone come with the right cable for the new MacBook Pro? Obviously, because Apple hadn't shipped a single USB-C product at the time the iPhone 7 was released, so it would be idiotic to give folks a USB-C cable. In addition, the writer is too stupid to figure out that the release of a new MB Pro doesn't mean that everyone magically and instantly upgrades. You have to think about supporting the hardware base that is already out there. Why doesn’t Apple make a screen that properly works with its own devices? Because that's not judged to be a challenge worthy of Apple's resources and is just as well handled by third-party manufacturers who can do it cheaper. How do I charge my Lightning cable mouse? You flip it over and go get coffee for 5 minutes every month or two, you obtuse wanker. Why remove the HDMI port, a standard that’s still incredibly popular for plugging into TVs? Because the machine is now too thin to fit an HDMI port in the side, and because Apple is pushing wireless means for this purpose (AirPlay). Why remove the SD card, a popular slot for… creatives using cameras? Because at some point, you have to make choices. We don't have parallel ports and 9-pin serial ports anymore, either.
pazimzadeh 10y ago
> At the iPhone event in September, Apple told the world that headphone jacks were dead because wireless headphones are superior — so why is there a headphone jack on the Mac? Because Macs are much larger than iPhones, so the trade-off in battery life/other components is less significant than on an iPhone.
mancerayder 10y ago
I've been reading the comments on this thread and others on HN. I'm equally dismayed by the 'New Normal' with regards to Apple's offering, the bizarre design decisions (remove the USBs on the base Macbook, 16GB max RAM on the new Pros while Lenovo has been offering 32, the gimmicky top bar that will change the world, etc.) However, to keep in mind here is that for us techies (and for design folks) Macbooks seem as standard as ranger boots in the military, but for the rest of the world, it's a vicious fight for market share and Apple is near the bottom of the 'big ones'. For one of the wealthiest companies in the world, Apple is still behind HP, Dell, Lenovo, even Acer and ASUS in marketshare! [Source: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/11/lower-macbook-sales-push-apple-down-to-sixth-place-in-laptop-marketshare http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/11/lower-macbook-sale...] So, it's not a surprise that our needs are cast aside in the grander business scheme of capturing wider audience by casting a wider net. There's no need to psychoanalyze Tim Cook and pray for the Second Coming of Jobs. It's the widening of the net that we're experiencing as pain.
- arebop 10y ago
  If they want enterprise market share, they need to lower prices by a lot.
  - acdha 10y ago
    You're thinking about the consumer IT market, where people tend to buy the cheapest up-front price. In most enterprise shops, people recognize that the purchase price is a small part of the total cost of ownership and favor things like durability, support, etc. I don't want to derail into yet another argument for whether Apple is better or worse on those points but the cost gap between a business-quality PC and equivalent Mac historically has been much narrower than for the cheaper consumer-grade PCs and the buyers have fairly different priorities.
    - arebop 10y ago
      No, I'm definitely thinking of the several Fortune 100 companies I worked for in the past. They did indeed include TCO in their checklists. They did not actually understand or care about the daily experience of the people using the computers. The decision matrix abstraction really missed a lot! Yes, the CEO had MacBook Pro. The rank and file got a "refresh" HP or Dell once every 5 years. Niceties such color gamut, gpu performance, or keyboard travel never showed up on the feature checklist.
jonstokes 10y ago
I've been reading (and editing and publishing) the same "When will Apple once again start caring about high-end creative professionals who put serious demands on their machines?" article for over a decade, now. I mean, I agree with a lot of what's in this piece. But this idea of the Mac as cutting-edge creative powerhouse with tons of horsepower under the hood is a fantasy that dates back to the PPC/RISC days. Every now and then Apple comes out with a new Mac Pro design, or the XServe, or another new Mac Pro design, or manages to cram a leading-edge CPU or GPU into one of their computers. But those rare moments of genuine high-end leadership are the exception, rather than the rule. All of Apple's innovation eggs are in the iOS basket now. All of them. And before that they were in the "creatives who work out of Starbucks" basket. They haven't been in the "I need to crunch serious numbers to make cool things" basket since before the Cold War ended. Apple has been a lifestyle brand for creative types and creative type wannabes, and not the heir to, say, SGI, for a very very very long time.
- symfoniq 10y ago
  I think this an accurate summation of the state of things. It just took some of us longer to realize it than others. Apple and I simply don't agree on what matters in a computer anymore. My current MacBook Pro will be my last. I've purchased a ThinkPad and am beginning to transition my work over to it. My ThinkPad isn't the sort of machine that most people need or want, and certainly not the sort that Apple is interested in building these days, but I think it will meet my needs perfectly. It already feels nice not needing a dongle just to plug in an Ethernet cable.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    I think you're right, although I would say 2012 was still a good year for devs, given Snow Leopard and the Macs they released then (my 2012 is the last with all the ports and a DVD drive, for example). It was before the iOS features were heavily pushed to OSX. I think it is very sad but I too am considering migration of my life to a ThinkPad after this MacBook dies. That'll be a really sad time for me because I don't fully understand Microsoft's vision for the future, and certainly don't want to go back to Linux (I grew tired of everything breaking all the time and incessant change for no reason). Out of interest, what ThinkPad are you looking at?
hyperion2010 10y ago
The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [0] which also had 'adaptive keys' and was for 'pros.' Lenovo reverted in their 3rd and 4th generations because users did not like it, and it was not as useful as the function keys. Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. 0. https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+carbon&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+c...
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  Like nearly every other new human input hardware, this was poorly implemented by the PC-maker and had abysmal supporting software. The problem with the X1 gen2 is the execution, not the concept, and Apple damn well knows that.
- mcphage 10y ago
  > The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [...] Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. Apple also likes finding things that (they think are) good ideas that other companies executed on poorly, and execute on them better. So yes, they did see the thinkpad adaptive keys, and thought they could make them work. Whether they can remains to be seen, but trying things that other companies did poorly is one of their major business plans.
- Luc 10y ago
  > The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon Come on, it's reasonable to assume they had every existing device with anything resembling a touch bar to analyse and learn from. If the problems with the thinkpad's adaptive keys were obvious to most users, they were obvious to Apple engineers. Problems with other devices are opportunities to them.
- hn_user2 10y ago
  I think Apple has a little more influence on application developers to gain adoption than Lenovo does. How many applications were modified to take advantage of the Lenovo adaptive keys? Now compare that to developers already playing with and releasing software that makes use of the touch bar.
Shivetya 10y ago
Apple is turning into the dongle company. The number of devices they have that require adapter cable or dongle just to use existing accessories if not current products is astounding.
- addicted 10y ago
  Maybe Apple is just a front org created by 3rd party accessories manufacturers?
- mlonkibjuyhv 10y ago
  That's where the profit margins are...
sarreph 10y ago
It is incredibly dangerous for Apple to begin to 'navel gaze' (look back) at its history for inspiration. Bold moves - at the helm of Jobs - used to have purpose behind them other than making their machines 'look pretty' and appeal to the coffee shop demographic as the author astutely pointed out.
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  Why shouldn't they appeal to this 'coffee shop demographic' you seem to look down upon? That's likely a larger share of Mac profit now than traditional 'Pro' users. They should be appealing to both, but I wouldn't fault them for looking to the coffee shops first.
onedognight 10y ago
Stockholm syndrome. That's what it is. If you have memorized that F5 is step (over, into, who knows?) then congratulations, you have passed a test that no one should have to take. Do you know about the slide rule or log tables? The function keys are not a good interface to anything. Good riddance. Now, what are the escape sequences to access the Touch Bar from the Terminal so I can add some much needed usability to emacs/vi?
- __david__ 10y ago
  Now that you mention it, it would be very neat for something like htop to put all its F-key interface stuff on nicely labeled toolbar style buttons on the Touch Bar. That would improve the interface tremendously.
- addicted 10y ago
  I agree the function keys are not a good interface. It remains to be seen if the touch bar is an improvement.
- rhizome 10y ago
  I saw someone say they modified vim to use the touch bar.
OJFord 10y ago
I think if you don't have a Mac, great, there's nothing _wrong_ with the new ones per se (assuming you didn't want to come in at the lower price point they completely eliminated). After so long, though, this really needed to be an upgrade machine for existing Mac users... and maybe it is, but it's not a compelling one. It's certainly not one at a good price. I was hoping to upgrade my 2013 MBA - but there's now nothing directly comparable, nothing sub-£1K. My options now seem to be (a) hold out for new Macbooks (non 'Pro'), (b) buy a refurb MBP, or (c) switch to a Lenovo or something and stick Linux on it. The only thing stopping me doing (c) is identifying a laptop which I can stick Arch on and have all the hardware Just Work™ with decent battery life and sane fan usage.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > The only thing stopping me doing (c) is identifying a laptop which I can stick Arch on and have all the hardware Just Work™ with decent battery life and sane fan usage. Check out the Dell Latitude series. I've got an E6230 (by now quite old) and everything just works. I also get 6 hours of battery life in Arch on the 6 cell battery (which itself is a few years old). The fan is off pretty much all the time unless you're doing something heavy like compiling or gaming. I've also heard good things about the Dell XPS 13, although I'm not keen to drop that much money on a laptop!
aq3cn 10y ago
I like few things about macOS, is there a reliant way virtualise it? If I make switch to Linux, I really don't want to lose my digital purchase in iTunes or Mac App Store or iBooks.
amaks 10y ago
Apple product line is a huge misaligned mess right now. Not surprising considering articles like http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/25/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ballmer/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/25/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ball....
jaredcwhite 10y ago
"Apple doesn't care about professionals" Everyone who states more or less this sentiment is stating an absolute and speaking for an entire demographic when really they should be saying: "Apple doesn't care about a certain type of professional who happens to think just like me" I am a professional: a web designer, a programmer, as well as a musician and occasional video editor. I make a living using my MacBook Pro. I'm typing on one right now. My life wouldn't be possible without a Mac to use for my creative profession. I love nearly everything about the new MBPs and hope to get the 15" as soon as funds are available. I think the Touch Bar is one of the most exciting UI upgrades to macOS in a long, long time. (For reference, I like the Force Touch trackpad but I almost never use the force part of it and think Apple's really dropped the ball on that particular feature.) I can't wait until Logic Pro X supports the Touch Bar, as well as other music apps like Ableton Live. Even the fact that Xcode, Terminal, etc. have extensive interactions on the Touch Bar is impressive. This, THIS is how you roll out a new integrated hardware/software UI feature. Are there some issues? Sure, but what major upgrade doesn't have issues? I still remember when Apple's iOS device lineup was a mess because some devices used Lightning and others used the old 30-pin connector. Heck, the transition to Intel itself was painful back the day...it took years to get the entire Mac product line up to date with all the major software properly compiled. The switch to USB-C/TB3 is huge...the capabilities and bandwidth of that single type of port is staggering. (I'm still in awe that the new MBP can drive not just one, but TWO 5K displays simultaneously.) Instead of being upset with Apple's changes, we should be clamoring for them to upgrade their other Macs (iMac, etc.) to USB-C as fast as humanly possible. Need a dongle or two to get through the transition period? So what? I've needed dongles for one thing or another at almost every stage of the Mac journey (FW-400 to FW-800, anyone?) Apple has not lost their way. Perhaps they've lost the willingness to push out Mac hardware on a more frequent basis, which is a shame. But their ability to innovate and come out with a great product when the time is right should not be up for debate.
- mstade 10y ago
  This. This is me in a nutshell. In fact, I just ordered the new 13", with touch pad. I never use the F-keys and am genuinely excited by the touch pad - I think it's going to be one of those features that after the fact you just can't believe why no one did it earlier. I love touch id on my iPhone, and can't wait to use it on my Mac – it'll obsolete my Yubikey. This feature alone would be enough to get me to upgrade. To me, the MBP I just ordered will pay for itself in no time, so it was a no brainer for me. To me, the MBP just works, often in really subtle ways too that I just don't notice until I'm not on a Mac. To me, my current MBP is the best laptop I could possibly have. When I bought it, I even said that I don't even know how Apple could possibly top it. It's the best computer I've ever used, my livelihood depends on it. I probably could do the same things with other hardware, and other software – but man, it just works and that's worth every premium I paid for it. To each their own but to me, Apple just made this thing that couldn't possibly be better, better.
exodust 10y ago
All this "why isn't it better" foot-stomping. "Why isn't it as good as Microsoft" more foot-stomping and perhaps even some sulking? I don't really get the emotional expectations people drum up about what the tech giants should or shouldn't be doing with new releases. I like it when computers last years and years and fulfill a purpose for our life and work-life. If your Mac is from all the way back in 2012, don't feel bad! If it does what you need then keep it and ignore the latest product releases this year. Next year might have something more to your liking.
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  It is a tool I use 8-12 hours a day, with real impacts on my life. It isn't something sitting on a shelf where I can ignore the problems.
- hvmonk 10y ago
  Ditto. Living room judgements cost you nothing.
- gdulli 10y ago
  I think people waited a long time for a refresh of that product line and now that it didn't pan out, they're frustrated because they don't know what their next computer will be or if there even is one they'll like as much as what they have now. People don't suddenly need a new computer right now just because these were announced, but will all these laptops from 2012 last until 2020 when the next refresh might happen?
  - michaelcampbell 10y ago
    > People don't suddenly need a new computer right now just because these were announced, Depends on the computer. I know of many people who, after declaring the iphone 6 the greatest thing ever, suddenly realized that they were completely useless upon the arrival of the iphone 7.
- greedo 10y ago
  I have a Mac Pro from 1996. It's been running great, but hampered by Apple's unwillingness to support it with the newest releases of OSX/macOS. I've been hoping for a similar Mac to replace it with, for several years. And the trashcan Mac Pro is not what I want/need. So, I've been following your advice for years, with nothing to look forward to. Every year I've thought "Next year might have something more to my liking" and every year I've been disappointed.
binaryapparatus 10y ago
This surely wasn't an event that deserves 'hello' line. Unless Apple starts using 'hello' each year from now on it should be reserved for truly earth shattering visionary events. Touch Bar is ergonomic catastrophe. Tiny flat screen hidden behind the keys -- at the event all the people demonstrating Touch Bar had to stand, lean over keyboard and crouch in order to use it. Doing that while sitting and doing some serious work is usability nightmare.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  For added irony, the opening ad was all about accessibility. I would love to see how the hell that touch bar is going to be a good accessibility experience.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    It took them about 25 minutes before they even started talking about Macs.
erikb 10y ago
I bought a Macbook Pro in 2015 and I really, really had to train myself not to touch the display, despite no previous laptop having a touch display in my whole life. Don't ask me why, but the Macbook display already feels like it should be touchable for years it seems.
- devopsproject 10y ago
  I feel like the touchbar is going to make this worse. You will get into the habit of touching it and since your hand is already near the screen....
swasheck 10y ago
My company-issued Lenovo X1 Carbon 2 has a touchbar. I hate it because it's so poorly executed. If I want to use a Function key, I have to cycle through the options to get to the Function key ... uhh ... functionality. What's that? I need to disable/enable wireless adapter? Oh! Just cycle through a few screens and touch the utility panel. Oh no!!!! I forgot to mute my speakers and now I have to cycle through the panels to get to my speaker mute button. I can't really tell how Apple did theirs, but I sure hope that they did a better job than Lenovo.
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  The best 'feature' is when you overshoot the (horrific) backspace key and the stupid utility launches on your screen. I think you can rest easy Apple's will be far-better implemented than Lenovo.
dirtbox 10y ago
I started designing on a Mac II in the late 80s during the emergence of desktop publishing and over the years it became the defacto designer's tool. I have no idea what happened, but apple forgot where they came from and have completely lost touch with their creative roots. That MS have swooped in and delivered what has to be the most exciting design tool I've seen in over a decade only punctuates how bad things have become at Apple. I can see them hemorrhaging all but their most hardcore customers in the next year.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> Apple forgot where they came from and have completely lost touch with their creative roots. I get what you're saying, but Apple has evolved. Back then, Apple was a niche company. Now they are a mainstream company, enjoying the profits of their success. I know it's not pleasant to hear, but they don't need the creatives any more. Or developers. And that's fine. You can always speak out with your wallet. I didn't like the direction they went in and changed to Windows, but I wasn't reliant on any one thing in the Mac ecosystem. I still have no problem recommending Macs to certain types of users though.
  - dirtbox 10y ago
    Apple was never niche within the industry, they were the forefront of mainstream. Now they've alienated absolutely everyone and their only direction seems to be toward proprietary nickel and diming.
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      >> Apple was never niche within the industry, they were the forefront of mainstream. My Apple days go back to the first era of Steve Jobs. I remember when Macs served mainly DTP (desktop publishing) and Education markets and not much else. Back when people literally said "Macs are toys". I used to get weird "Why?" looks when I told people I used a Mac. I don't think any Mac user from that era would say Apple was "at the forefront of mainstream".
hammock 10y ago
Back when Steve Jobs was around, there used to be so much talk about how well and tightly he controlled the media. Guaranteeing he would have many positive stories out there on the day of launch. People would also talk about the Reality Distortion Field. And Gruber would right some well-logicked defense of criticism. Where is the positive PR army? I did not see one single positive story about the recent announcements, following a short Google search!
- ohstopitu 10y ago
  Almost everyone who actually used the product (tech journalists) have said that they liked the touchbar. I've noticed the negative feedback loop happening on HN and some parts of reddit - it was overwhelmingly positive elsewhere - from Product Hunt to people in person. I know why it's happening as well....a lot of us folks waited pretty long for an upgrade and what we got...it was not what we wanted/hoped for and are left stranded of sorts (do I continue and buy the new laptop? do I move to linux? do I get a windows device? - such questions were never an issue before....want a new device? get the latest macbook pro).
tmaly 10y ago
I think Apple should have followed one of the important mantras in the startup space: Talk to your users. Everyone who owns an MacBook most likely has an apple account with an email. They could have conducted customer development surveys to get a better idea of what features users like the most or use the most.
- jld 10y ago
  They do, though who knows much it alters the course of the ship. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504685
- dasil003 10y ago
  Nah, Apple doesn't have to talk to their users. All the feedback they could possibly want is already out there in blog/podcast/twitter form. Their problem is that strategically they underestimate the importance of influencers and power users. Being the market leader makes a company think they just have to satisfy the masses, and they lose the train that in order to satisfy the masses they need to have the best apps, and to have the best apps they need to have developers, and to have developers they need to satisfy power user needs. Apple is at a dangerous juncture right now. They're still holding on to people like me simply because of the shittiness of Windows and Linux overall experience, but once I actually make the jump and sort out the little annoyances and get my workflow set, I'll probably never come back to Mac/iOS. The ecosystem is sticky, but it won't attract new developers the way it's going.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> the shittiness of Windows and Linux I made the switch to Windows, and while it doesn't have the same polish as OSX in many areas, it's pretty good. Even with my OSX muscle memory, it only took a few days to get used to some of the unfamiliar new stuff (to the point where using OSX now feels a little foreign to me). There are things in Windows I hate, but there were things in OSX that I hated too. If you use Windows 10 without too many preconceived notions, it's actually pretty good. It's definitely way better than XP, which was the last Windows OS I used prior to switching to Mac. I don't get many crashes etc., and my workflow is pretty much the same as it was on Mac. I use Cmder as my Terminal replacement, but at some point, I'll use that new Linux stuff they built into the Anniversary Edition of Windows 10.
makecheck 10y ago
When Tim Cook was asked about the Mac after the iPhone event awhile back, he said something like “stay tuned”. Well, unfortunately, post-Mac-event, I am still “staying tuned” because I can’t believe that this is what they meant. How can there be nothing else in the pipeline? A new Pro computer and Pro presentation should look something like: - Sensible flexibility: while some “forward-looking” port like USB-C is expected, there should also be at least one present-day port. No “dongles by default” in a Pro. - Top-line option with significantly higher maximum memory than other available machines, fastest processor options, and even “unnecessary” extras like 16-core or whatever crazy stuff is available. - The entire presentation should focus on the damned Mac. I don’t care about your Watch or your TV because I can look those stats up. I counted, after HALF AN HOUR he started to mention the Mac. Come on. - Every demo should focus on PRO features. I don’t want to see a single consumer item. Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past. Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on stage. - The web site for a Pro computer should be free of animations, with a big fat “Tech Specs” button in large print at the top that links to an ordinary white paper and some performance comparison tables. (The Mac Pro web site has always failed me; took forever to figure out what the thing could even do.)
- benologist 10y ago
  Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past. Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on stage. Problem is they decided two things and remain committed: 1) Touch has no place on PC screens 2) GPUs aren't that big a deal Intel has only been able to make the slightest performance improvements for years now, combined effect is now Apple get no 'free upgrades' invented by the PC industry to integrate cause all the cool stuff coming out on that side is touch, VR and AR.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    Are GPUs not a big deal only because they refuse to release a modern OpenGL version on macOS?
    - bmh_ca 10y ago
sambe 10y ago
There are plenty of professionals buying Mac who are not the same customer type as most of the professionals here. They can't touch type. Arguably they have always been Apple's core market. For ones saying they don't care about professionals, it's likely to remain a strong, well-designed and productive machine. Maybe a few will leave the walled garden due to this, but I think as many or more will appreciate it.
wppick 10y ago
I think the new MacBook pro is actually a really great move... it was just not sold properly. -USB-C can replace HDMI -Touch bar uses watchOS -The touch bar is actually much better than full touchscreen since lifting your arm up all day to the screen is much more effort and will smudge your display. They didn't sell the possibilities of a dynamic portion of your keyboard -I'm not sure about removing the magsafe port, but I'm sure I won't miss it once I get used to not having it
- freehunter 10y ago
  I feel like I'm the only one who likes Magsafe in theory but hates it in practice. Setting my laptop on my lap, it ends up pushing the charger against my leg and unplugging it. If it's sitting beside me and I lift it up to put it on my lap or desk, it commonly unplugs just from the weight of the cable pulling down. But when I trip on the cord and it tries to pull straight outward, I've had my laptop tumble to the ground before the cable unplugged. It's great to think that it can unplug itself instead of damage the machine, but in practice I find myself wishing I could get something that just plugs in like normal, or breaks away like an old Xbox cable (i.e., straight out instead of up or down).
- sorahn 10y ago
  Not only can usb-c replace HDMI, it now is a straight pin through to HDMI. No chips needed. http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/HDMIAltModeUSBTypeC.aspx http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/HDMIAltModeUSBTypeC.aspx
bcheung 10y ago
It definitely feels like Apple is concentrating on the amateur market. I wouldn't say it is geared towards pro users. What they showed would be great for the kind of people who buy the air. Personally, I don't care how much my laptop weighs or how big it is as long as it fits in my backpack. The touch strip is great for scrubbing, that part I liked, but pro users do not use contextual menus like that. They know all the keyboard shortcuts. Scrolling through photos, sliders, scrubbing, timelines, all good use for the touch strip. Menus, not so much. In Photoshop, why would I go through menus to get to the control to change the brush size when I can just press '[' or ']'. And if a person was really a pro they would have a pen with pressure sensitivity already that allows them to change opacity, size, etc by pressing harder. The DJ demo interface looked extremely cumbersome. It's a great alternative if your controller breaks but there's a reason physical sliders and knobs exist. They are easier to use. If you're a professional DJ you are going to use a dedicated external controller. Great if you want to tinker or are an amateur, but not for a professional.
oliv__ 10y ago
I feel like Apple is slowly stripping all of the small but delightful "details" from their products: no more glowing apple logo (completely useless, sure, but iconic at this point), no more magsafe (how many times have you tripped on the cable only to realize it was all good -- thanks magsafe!) To me, these "details" seem to be the little things that contribute to so many people creating deep emotional connections with otherwise cold metal objects. At this pace, not too long from now, cold metal will be all that's left.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  Oddly, some of those details that they are stripping off are features. This removal of features slims out their laptops and will see me disappear from their user base, so their customer count will also slim. It's insane.
op00to 10y ago
The only thing that really bums me out about the new MacBook Pro not having regular ol' USB ports is that I'll need a dongle for my Yubikey. That sucks, but not enough for me to really give an actual shit.
xenadu02 10y ago
The whining and moaning about dongles is exactly what people said about the original iMac and USB. If you think Apple is going to make room for your old crusty ports when there is a new standard you're crazy and haven't paid any attention to Apple at all. Here's a question: When did HN lose the ability to appreciate awesome technology? Thunderbolt 3 is awesome. The new MBP has four ports. Each port can charge the laptop, supply 15w of power to devices, supports USB 3, a 5K 16bpp deep color display at 60hz (!!), and extends the PCI Express bus to external devices. Yes the transition period will be annoying. Once we get there it will be amazing. TB3 is what I've been wanting out of a connector for a long time. One sturdy, reversible, and universal plug that handles everything in a backwards-compatible way.
- renaudg 10y ago
  Thank you !
raarts 10y ago
I am very disappointed with the new lineup: no more magsafe, no more 12 hrs battery, much higher price, and no 16GB Ram for the MBA to fall back to. And a touch thingy I didn't ask for to replace my trusty function- and escape keys. I will probably still be buying a Mac PRO, but it's different now: this time I feel Apple knows I've got nowhere to go, and they're strong arming me into buying the new machine. This is a very different feeling from being really enthusiastic about my machine, telling everybody they'll have to pry it out of my sing hands. This time I feel like I'm being treated like a consumer instead of a customer.
thescribe 10y ago
As a long time Apple user this was a mix for me, and I was really hoping for something as good as the MacBook Pro. I really do care about having a nice screen and high quality key switches, so it was nice to see those get an upgrade. I just don't care about weight, If it weight ten pounds but was more powerful I'd still carry it, I don't see why they make them lighter instead of improving airflow. I don't want touch screens, they are such a big negative for me. I still love MacOS and the development ecosystem from it, but it is getting so much harder to justify.
Yetanfou 10y ago
I'll give Apple a hint how to solve this conundrum. a) bring back that key row, people prefer physical keys over touch-strips and -pads and -screens for a reason - you can use them without taking your eyes off the screen b) for those applications where you'd benefit from a visual representation of whatever data you're manipulating the keystrip is rather limited in space, but fortunately nearly all laptops already include a touch-sensitive area under the keyboard... c) ...so just put an OLED-display under the touchpad? Have it run iOS for ease of development, not that developing for iOS is easy but there are loads and loads of developers who already know the platform. Add some haptic feedback to make it usable eyes-off and for those who have bad eyesight and you've got your next 'amazing' gadget. As an added bonus it should be possible to use any iOS device as a 'remote' for applications which utilize the touchpad-with-pictures. Call it DisplayPad and you're done for the next show. The same could be done by Google (Android on ChromeOS or whatever comes after), by Microsoft, by... anyone, really.
oliversl 10y ago
I press F4 every day, read that again, every day to launch apps.

320 points by uptown 10y ago

Fifer82 10y ago

fools? :D

programminggeek 10y ago

Bizarrely, it's almost to the point where Microsoft is making better computers than Apple.

treve 10y ago
And Dell! XPS13
- Skunkleton 10y ago
  What a time to be alive!
- mhomde 10y ago
  I bizarrely think dell currently is making the best laptops in the market. The surface book is "sexier" and both that and the Macbook pro has better industrial design than the XPS's ... and the XPS's had some quality problems to start of with... but those screens, specs and connection to what professionals need without doing trippy things like removing USB ports has pushed them to the forefront. If Dell just could gain a tad more "design soul" and shake some our horrible memories of the stodgy Dell of the past I think they're in a prime position ... then again the PC market is apparently shrinking so who knows. There seems to be an ever widening divergence between mainstream consumers and professionals, and the companies haven't quite figured out to react, or they have and we don't like it.
  - smoe 10y ago
    I love the xps13 since I bought one in 2015. But I hope they improved their shipping experience vastly. I was really close to try to cancel my order and just get a mac again after waiting for almost 2 months without any updates to the tracking page besides the package leaving China within a couple of days, nor any helpful answers from dell or the delivery company. Initial eta was ~21 days.
    - mhomde 10y ago
      that's a bit ironic considering one of the things that made Dell successful was their manufacturing logistics :) But yeah, I think that's one of Dell's problems, it feels like an enterprise behemoth without a soul nor a good brand. It's kinda natural for the sector they normally operate it, but still
- endemic 10y ago
  What bizarre alternate reality am I living in where a Dell is being considered an alternative to Apple hardware? Even crazier: I feel the same way.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    I think Dell turned it around when they went private. While they were still public, I pretty much hated everything they made.
  - dingaling 10y ago
    Something bad happened to Dell corporate laptop design after 2008. Up until then, every Latitude D4xx or D6xx that I had used was rock-solid and easy to maintain and upgrade. Solid magnesium-alloy chassis and case nearly indestructible. Around 2010 they started segmenting their product line much more and design quality fell through the floor. We briefly had some 'small business' Vostro laptops with sharp edges that hurt when you typed, and Latitude E<something> on which you couldn't open the lid without holding the base. The old Latitude Ds just kept working... Recently, possibly as a result of the share buy-back, it sounds like they've found their feet again and I'm willing to give the XPS or Precision a try.
vesak 10y ago
Almost? They were well on that route already with the Surface line, and the latest events just hammered it in. If they get a good small (4,5" range) Surface phone out, I'm out of the Apple game for good :)
empath75 10y ago
Now that windows has bash, especially.
ihaveahadron 10y ago
microsoft always made better products, apple sucks at making products. they are just good at advertising. microsoft should get better at advertising and apple should get better at making computers

sickbeard 10y ago

Tim Cook seems to be one of those CEOs who sits in his office doesn't participate in the innovation process, while Jobs took a more hands on approach to drive innovations to its ultimate form. I can't imagine someone presenting this "touchbar" bullspit to Jobs and not getting fired right away for such a dumb idea.

ceejayoz 10y ago
C'mon. Someone presented the hockey puck mouse to Jobs and not only survived, but got it into production.
- acdha 10y ago
  Not to mention the Mighty Mouse with the lint-magnet scroll ball, their entire server strategy, and countless software decisions like the iTunes UI, multiple generations of cloud services which were clumsy and confusing, etc. Jobs was good at what he focused on and other things tended to languish. For the last half decade, everyone has been focused on iOS. Cook seems to be getting the blame for basically doing roughly the same thing while not being Steve Jobs.
wxs 10y ago
Like Bret Victor? Who seems to have been involved in presenting this to Jobs? I'd say he's a pretty interesting guy and probably not worth firing even if you don't like one of his proposals. https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/641705818585337856 https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/641705818585337856
_red 10y ago
Its hard to give a meaningful critique of Tim Cook as CEO online since you are attacked either by the fanboys, shills, or haters. However, I think its becoming increasingly clear that Tim is "not a product development CEO". He is clearly, by far, probably one of the best COO's of the last 100 years (yes, I'm totally serious). Apple would've never had its rebirth if not for the duo of Jobs as product visionary and Cook as executor. Sadly with Jobs passing, Apple is slowly sliding back to the confused, overlapping, inconsistent product catalog circa 1998.

deleted 10y ago

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brandur 10y ago

The article's inclusion of this quote from Tim Cook comes pretty close to summing up the whole situation: “I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” – Tim Cook, talking about the iPad Pro It's time to face the fact that Apple doesn't care about professionals and never has. With the release of the original Intel MacBook Pro in 2006 they created a near perfect computer that would come to dominate the market amongst developers for the next ten years. What we don't acknowledge though is that this was purely an accident. While Apple had intended to build nice hardware and a stable OS, the Unix-y nature of the OS that that helped capture the hearts of developers was never exposed in an intentional way. What we're seeing with the new MBP is a regression back to the core Apple value that are already so prominent on the iPhone and iPad: form over function. Why have a headphone jack when you can make the bottom of the phone more symmetrical and shave 0.2 mm off the case depth? Why do you need a physical keyboard when the iPad's virtual one is just fine for writing emails? Expect more of the same on future changes to the lineup.

deleted 10y ago
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bluejekyll 10y ago
<SadMac> I'll reserve judgement on the new TouchBar, since I haven't had a chance to play with one. I'll say this, though, what they've done is dipped their toe into the fully programmable keyboard space: http://www.geeknaut.com/cool-computer-keyboards-2219350.html http://www.geeknaut.com/cool-computer-keyboards-2219350.html This could be a stepping stone to a fully redrawable keyboard. Not saying I want such a thing, but it's interesting. imagine the entire keyboard surface being the TouchBar? It would suck (I think) for typing, but it would certainly differentiate itself from the iPad, and would start making for custom controls that augment the display. In some cases I could see this as a better experience than just a pure touchscreen (though it would probably be very niche). Anyway, even with all of the negatives you mentioned, it's still going to be the best Unix laptop out there. My dream is that HP or Dell find a backbone, and starts pitching supporting and building a perfect Linux (pick any distro really) laptop to devs, or maybe Google makes ChromeOS, that perfect OS. Until then...

3chelon 10y ago

Almost as soon as I heard the sad news about Steve Jobs I feared this would happen. It also coincides with the 15-year cycle that seems to happen in tech and certain financial markets. Let's face it, Apple can't be top dog forever. Google has lasted longer than it should have. And if I were Zuckerberg I'd be concerned what's around the corner. And without the visionary leadership of a Jobs, a Gates, a whoever, these companies stop innovating and change into something else. At least this is the second time round for Apple. But I fear that without Jobs there may be no way back.

marrone12 10y ago
That's why Zuck has been very aggressive with acquisitions, to future proof the company. He's bought two of his biggest competitors, Instagram and Whatsapp, and Oculus which could be the future. I'm pretty pleased with his corporate foresight.
- kamaal 10y ago
  You can only find your way out by buying and killing your competitors for that much time. Sooner or later some one will do something you won't notice and suddenly you will be irrelevant.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    Yes and Internet users are very fickle. In particular, users used to a free product evaporate when charges arise. The endless struggle to stay relevant kills them. For examples see MySpace, Friendster, Bebo, Twitter....
mtgx 10y ago
Apple should've made Elon Musk its CEO as soon as it could after Steve Jobs passed away. Now it's likely too late with the merger of Tesla and Solar City happening, and the merged company being on an explosive growth path. Musk is also likely too busy now with SpaceX's ITS system and the landing on Mars to worry about making great Macs and iPhones.

Skunkleton 10y ago

Anyone have specifics on what processors are in the 13" model? It looks like it might be one of the U skus. Not very pro...

malensek 10y ago
I believe you are correct, the base model with touchbar has a i5-6267U.

deleted 10y ago

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Bud 10y ago

This is a foolish article, through and through. Let's examine this silliness: The thing is, I can’t figure out who this is for other than those who are on really old machines. Myself, and everyone else, seems to be wondering what, exactly, is the selling point of this upgrade. I have a MacBook Pro 15" from 2013 and it’s still going strong and the majority of the time it’s plugged into a large display for creative work, coding or whatever. Um, the selling point is that it's more than twice as fast for graphics and many operations, jumps forward TWO GENERATIONS in CPU, has much faster storage, is significantly smaller and lighter, etc. In other words, it's more of an upgrade than the MBP line has had in several years. Touch Bar is a great example of this. First, it feels like an excuse to not just add touch to the Mac in the first place. While Microsoft is busy letting you touch the entire display, Apple’s making you look down at your keyboard to interact instead — bizarre. That's because being able to touch the entire display is stupid and does not work ergonomically unless you are holding the device IN YOUR HANDS, which doesn't work for a laptop, obviously. Apple examined this idea and rejected it. On purpose. Then the article gripes about there being two versions of the 13" MB Pro and asking why they don't call the non-touch-strip version the MB Air. The obvious answer is that there is already a MB Air, which is a different model and still for sale. The event also left Apple with a ton of bizarre loose ends. At the iPhone event in September, Apple told the world that headphone jacks were dead because wireless headphones are superior — so why is there a headphone jack on the Mac? Even worse, Apple has delayed its wireless headphones which were supposed to change the world. No. Apple did not tell the world that headphone jacks were dead. Apple told the world that they couldn't justify putting one in the iPhone because of its form factor, which is of course entirely different. And no, Apple's wireless headphones were not "supposed to change the world". Lastly, if AirPods are not ready to ship, they aren't ready to ship and it would be obvious idiocy to ship them. Why can’t you plug the Lightning headphones that come in the iPhone box into the new Mac? Why can't you plug basically ANY headphones shipping today into the vast majority of amplifiers shipping today, which have 1/4" jacks, without using an adapter? Why doesn’t the iPhone come with the right cable for the new MacBook Pro? Obviously, because Apple hadn't shipped a single USB-C product at the time the iPhone 7 was released, so it would be idiotic to give folks a USB-C cable. In addition, the writer is too stupid to figure out that the release of a new MB Pro doesn't mean that everyone magically and instantly upgrades. You have to think about supporting the hardware base that is already out there. Why doesn’t Apple make a screen that properly works with its own devices? Because that's not judged to be a challenge worthy of Apple's resources and is just as well handled by third-party manufacturers who can do it cheaper. How do I charge my Lightning cable mouse? You flip it over and go get coffee for 5 minutes every month or two, you obtuse wanker. Why remove the HDMI port, a standard that’s still incredibly popular for plugging into TVs? Because the machine is now too thin to fit an HDMI port in the side, and because Apple is pushing wireless means for this purpose (AirPlay). Why remove the SD card, a popular slot for… creatives using cameras? Because at some point, you have to make choices. We don't have parallel ports and 9-pin serial ports anymore, either.

pazimzadeh 10y ago

> At the iPhone event in September, Apple told the world that headphone jacks were dead because wireless headphones are superior — so why is there a headphone jack on the Mac? Because Macs are much larger than iPhones, so the trade-off in battery life/other components is less significant than on an iPhone.

mancerayder 10y ago

I've been reading the comments on this thread and others on HN. I'm equally dismayed by the 'New Normal' with regards to Apple's offering, the bizarre design decisions (remove the USBs on the base Macbook, 16GB max RAM on the new Pros while Lenovo has been offering 32, the gimmicky top bar that will change the world, etc.) However, to keep in mind here is that for us techies (and for design folks) Macbooks seem as standard as ranger boots in the military, but for the rest of the world, it's a vicious fight for market share and Apple is near the bottom of the 'big ones'. For one of the wealthiest companies in the world, Apple is still behind HP, Dell, Lenovo, even Acer and ASUS in marketshare! [Source: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/11/lower-macbook-sales-push-apple-down-to-sixth-place-in-laptop-marketshare http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/11/lower-macbook-sale...] So, it's not a surprise that our needs are cast aside in the grander business scheme of capturing wider audience by casting a wider net. There's no need to psychoanalyze Tim Cook and pray for the Second Coming of Jobs. It's the widening of the net that we're experiencing as pain.

arebop 10y ago
If they want enterprise market share, they need to lower prices by a lot.
- acdha 10y ago
  You're thinking about the consumer IT market, where people tend to buy the cheapest up-front price. In most enterprise shops, people recognize that the purchase price is a small part of the total cost of ownership and favor things like durability, support, etc. I don't want to derail into yet another argument for whether Apple is better or worse on those points but the cost gap between a business-quality PC and equivalent Mac historically has been much narrower than for the cheaper consumer-grade PCs and the buyers have fairly different priorities.
  - arebop 10y ago
    No, I'm definitely thinking of the several Fortune 100 companies I worked for in the past. They did indeed include TCO in their checklists. They did not actually understand or care about the daily experience of the people using the computers. The decision matrix abstraction really missed a lot! Yes, the CEO had MacBook Pro. The rank and file got a "refresh" HP or Dell once every 5 years. Niceties such color gamut, gpu performance, or keyboard travel never showed up on the feature checklist.

jonstokes 10y ago

I've been reading (and editing and publishing) the same "When will Apple once again start caring about high-end creative professionals who put serious demands on their machines?" article for over a decade, now. I mean, I agree with a lot of what's in this piece. But this idea of the Mac as cutting-edge creative powerhouse with tons of horsepower under the hood is a fantasy that dates back to the PPC/RISC days. Every now and then Apple comes out with a new Mac Pro design, or the XServe, or another new Mac Pro design, or manages to cram a leading-edge CPU or GPU into one of their computers. But those rare moments of genuine high-end leadership are the exception, rather than the rule. All of Apple's innovation eggs are in the iOS basket now. All of them. And before that they were in the "creatives who work out of Starbucks" basket. They haven't been in the "I need to crunch serious numbers to make cool things" basket since before the Cold War ended. Apple has been a lifestyle brand for creative types and creative type wannabes, and not the heir to, say, SGI, for a very very very long time.

symfoniq 10y ago
I think this an accurate summation of the state of things. It just took some of us longer to realize it than others. Apple and I simply don't agree on what matters in a computer anymore. My current MacBook Pro will be my last. I've purchased a ThinkPad and am beginning to transition my work over to it. My ThinkPad isn't the sort of machine that most people need or want, and certainly not the sort that Apple is interested in building these days, but I think it will meet my needs perfectly. It already feels nice not needing a dongle just to plug in an Ethernet cable.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  I think you're right, although I would say 2012 was still a good year for devs, given Snow Leopard and the Macs they released then (my 2012 is the last with all the ports and a DVD drive, for example). It was before the iOS features were heavily pushed to OSX. I think it is very sad but I too am considering migration of my life to a ThinkPad after this MacBook dies. That'll be a really sad time for me because I don't fully understand Microsoft's vision for the future, and certainly don't want to go back to Linux (I grew tired of everything breaking all the time and incessant change for no reason). Out of interest, what ThinkPad are you looking at?

hyperion2010 10y ago

The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [0] which also had 'adaptive keys' and was for 'pros.' Lenovo reverted in their 3rd and 4th generations because users did not like it, and it was not as useful as the function keys. Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. 0. https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+carbon&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+c...

ghostly_s 10y ago
Like nearly every other new human input hardware, this was poorly implemented by the PC-maker and had abysmal supporting software. The problem with the X1 gen2 is the execution, not the concept, and Apple damn well knows that.
mcphage 10y ago
> The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [...] Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all. Apple also likes finding things that (they think are) good ideas that other companies executed on poorly, and execute on them better. So yes, they did see the thinkpad adaptive keys, and thought they could make them work. Whether they can remains to be seen, but trying things that other companies did poorly is one of their major business plans.
Luc 10y ago
> The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon Come on, it's reasonable to assume they had every existing device with anything resembling a touch bar to analyse and learn from. If the problems with the thinkpad's adaptive keys were obvious to most users, they were obvious to Apple engineers. Problems with other devices are opportunities to them.
hn_user2 10y ago
I think Apple has a little more influence on application developers to gain adoption than Lenovo does. How many applications were modified to take advantage of the Lenovo adaptive keys? Now compare that to developers already playing with and releasing software that makes use of the touch bar.

Shivetya 10y ago

Apple is turning into the dongle company. The number of devices they have that require adapter cable or dongle just to use existing accessories if not current products is astounding.

addicted 10y ago
Maybe Apple is just a front org created by 3rd party accessories manufacturers?
mlonkibjuyhv 10y ago
That's where the profit margins are...

sarreph 10y ago

It is incredibly dangerous for Apple to begin to 'navel gaze' (look back) at its history for inspiration. Bold moves - at the helm of Jobs - used to have purpose behind them other than making their machines 'look pretty' and appeal to the coffee shop demographic as the author astutely pointed out.

ghostly_s 10y ago
Why shouldn't they appeal to this 'coffee shop demographic' you seem to look down upon? That's likely a larger share of Mac profit now than traditional 'Pro' users. They should be appealing to both, but I wouldn't fault them for looking to the coffee shops first.

onedognight 10y ago

Stockholm syndrome. That's what it is. If you have memorized that F5 is step (over, into, who knows?) then congratulations, you have passed a test that no one should have to take. Do you know about the slide rule or log tables? The function keys are not a good interface to anything. Good riddance. Now, what are the escape sequences to access the Touch Bar from the Terminal so I can add some much needed usability to emacs/vi?

__david__ 10y ago
Now that you mention it, it would be very neat for something like htop to put all its F-key interface stuff on nicely labeled toolbar style buttons on the Touch Bar. That would improve the interface tremendously.
addicted 10y ago
I agree the function keys are not a good interface. It remains to be seen if the touch bar is an improvement.
rhizome 10y ago
I saw someone say they modified vim to use the touch bar.

OJFord 10y ago

I think if you don't have a Mac, great, there's nothing _wrong_ with the new ones per se (assuming you didn't want to come in at the lower price point they completely eliminated). After so long, though, this really needed to be an upgrade machine for existing Mac users... and maybe it is, but it's not a compelling one. It's certainly not one at a good price. I was hoping to upgrade my 2013 MBA - but there's now nothing directly comparable, nothing sub-£1K. My options now seem to be (a) hold out for new Macbooks (non 'Pro'), (b) buy a refurb MBP, or (c) switch to a Lenovo or something and stick Linux on it. The only thing stopping me doing (c) is identifying a laptop which I can stick Arch on and have all the hardware Just Work™ with decent battery life and sane fan usage.

kogepathic 10y ago
> The only thing stopping me doing (c) is identifying a laptop which I can stick Arch on and have all the hardware Just Work™ with decent battery life and sane fan usage. Check out the Dell Latitude series. I've got an E6230 (by now quite old) and everything just works. I also get 6 hours of battery life in Arch on the 6 cell battery (which itself is a few years old). The fan is off pretty much all the time unless you're doing something heavy like compiling or gaming. I've also heard good things about the Dell XPS 13, although I'm not keen to drop that much money on a laptop!

aq3cn 10y ago

I like few things about macOS, is there a reliant way virtualise it? If I make switch to Linux, I really don't want to lose my digital purchase in iTunes or Mac App Store or iBooks.

amaks 10y ago

Apple product line is a huge misaligned mess right now. Not surprising considering articles like http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/25/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ballmer/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/25/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ball....

jaredcwhite 10y ago

"Apple doesn't care about professionals" Everyone who states more or less this sentiment is stating an absolute and speaking for an entire demographic when really they should be saying: "Apple doesn't care about a certain type of professional who happens to think just like me" I am a professional: a web designer, a programmer, as well as a musician and occasional video editor. I make a living using my MacBook Pro. I'm typing on one right now. My life wouldn't be possible without a Mac to use for my creative profession. I love nearly everything about the new MBPs and hope to get the 15" as soon as funds are available. I think the Touch Bar is one of the most exciting UI upgrades to macOS in a long, long time. (For reference, I like the Force Touch trackpad but I almost never use the force part of it and think Apple's really dropped the ball on that particular feature.) I can't wait until Logic Pro X supports the Touch Bar, as well as other music apps like Ableton Live. Even the fact that Xcode, Terminal, etc. have extensive interactions on the Touch Bar is impressive. This, THIS is how you roll out a new integrated hardware/software UI feature. Are there some issues? Sure, but what major upgrade doesn't have issues? I still remember when Apple's iOS device lineup was a mess because some devices used Lightning and others used the old 30-pin connector. Heck, the transition to Intel itself was painful back the day...it took years to get the entire Mac product line up to date with all the major software properly compiled. The switch to USB-C/TB3 is huge...the capabilities and bandwidth of that single type of port is staggering. (I'm still in awe that the new MBP can drive not just one, but TWO 5K displays simultaneously.) Instead of being upset with Apple's changes, we should be clamoring for them to upgrade their other Macs (iMac, etc.) to USB-C as fast as humanly possible. Need a dongle or two to get through the transition period? So what? I've needed dongles for one thing or another at almost every stage of the Mac journey (FW-400 to FW-800, anyone?) Apple has not lost their way. Perhaps they've lost the willingness to push out Mac hardware on a more frequent basis, which is a shame. But their ability to innovate and come out with a great product when the time is right should not be up for debate.

mstade 10y ago
This. This is me in a nutshell. In fact, I just ordered the new 13", with touch pad. I never use the F-keys and am genuinely excited by the touch pad - I think it's going to be one of those features that after the fact you just can't believe why no one did it earlier. I love touch id on my iPhone, and can't wait to use it on my Mac – it'll obsolete my Yubikey. This feature alone would be enough to get me to upgrade. To me, the MBP I just ordered will pay for itself in no time, so it was a no brainer for me. To me, the MBP just works, often in really subtle ways too that I just don't notice until I'm not on a Mac. To me, my current MBP is the best laptop I could possibly have. When I bought it, I even said that I don't even know how Apple could possibly top it. It's the best computer I've ever used, my livelihood depends on it. I probably could do the same things with other hardware, and other software – but man, it just works and that's worth every premium I paid for it. To each their own but to me, Apple just made this thing that couldn't possibly be better, better.

exodust 10y ago

All this "why isn't it better" foot-stomping. "Why isn't it as good as Microsoft" more foot-stomping and perhaps even some sulking? I don't really get the emotional expectations people drum up about what the tech giants should or shouldn't be doing with new releases. I like it when computers last years and years and fulfill a purpose for our life and work-life. If your Mac is from all the way back in 2012, don't feel bad! If it does what you need then keep it and ignore the latest product releases this year. Next year might have something more to your liking.

WillPostForFood 10y ago
It is a tool I use 8-12 hours a day, with real impacts on my life. It isn't something sitting on a shelf where I can ignore the problems.
hvmonk 10y ago
Ditto. Living room judgements cost you nothing.
gdulli 10y ago
I think people waited a long time for a refresh of that product line and now that it didn't pan out, they're frustrated because they don't know what their next computer will be or if there even is one they'll like as much as what they have now. People don't suddenly need a new computer right now just because these were announced, but will all these laptops from 2012 last until 2020 when the next refresh might happen?
- michaelcampbell 10y ago
  > People don't suddenly need a new computer right now just because these were announced, Depends on the computer. I know of many people who, after declaring the iphone 6 the greatest thing ever, suddenly realized that they were completely useless upon the arrival of the iphone 7.
greedo 10y ago
I have a Mac Pro from 1996. It's been running great, but hampered by Apple's unwillingness to support it with the newest releases of OSX/macOS. I've been hoping for a similar Mac to replace it with, for several years. And the trashcan Mac Pro is not what I want/need. So, I've been following your advice for years, with nothing to look forward to. Every year I've thought "Next year might have something more to my liking" and every year I've been disappointed.

binaryapparatus 10y ago

This surely wasn't an event that deserves 'hello' line. Unless Apple starts using 'hello' each year from now on it should be reserved for truly earth shattering visionary events. Touch Bar is ergonomic catastrophe. Tiny flat screen hidden behind the keys -- at the event all the people demonstrating Touch Bar had to stand, lean over keyboard and crouch in order to use it. Doing that while sitting and doing some serious work is usability nightmare.

FireBeyond 10y ago
For added irony, the opening ad was all about accessibility. I would love to see how the hell that touch bar is going to be a good accessibility experience.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  It took them about 25 minutes before they even started talking about Macs.

erikb 10y ago

I bought a Macbook Pro in 2015 and I really, really had to train myself not to touch the display, despite no previous laptop having a touch display in my whole life. Don't ask me why, but the Macbook display already feels like it should be touchable for years it seems.

devopsproject 10y ago
I feel like the touchbar is going to make this worse. You will get into the habit of touching it and since your hand is already near the screen....

swasheck 10y ago

My company-issued Lenovo X1 Carbon 2 has a touchbar. I hate it because it's so poorly executed. If I want to use a Function key, I have to cycle through the options to get to the Function key ... uhh ... functionality. What's that? I need to disable/enable wireless adapter? Oh! Just cycle through a few screens and touch the utility panel. Oh no!!!! I forgot to mute my speakers and now I have to cycle through the panels to get to my speaker mute button. I can't really tell how Apple did theirs, but I sure hope that they did a better job than Lenovo.

ghostly_s 10y ago
The best 'feature' is when you overshoot the (horrific) backspace key and the stupid utility launches on your screen. I think you can rest easy Apple's will be far-better implemented than Lenovo.

dirtbox 10y ago

I started designing on a Mac II in the late 80s during the emergence of desktop publishing and over the years it became the defacto designer's tool. I have no idea what happened, but apple forgot where they came from and have completely lost touch with their creative roots. That MS have swooped in and delivered what has to be the most exciting design tool I've seen in over a decade only punctuates how bad things have become at Apple. I can see them hemorrhaging all but their most hardcore customers in the next year.

slantyyz 10y ago
>> Apple forgot where they came from and have completely lost touch with their creative roots. I get what you're saying, but Apple has evolved. Back then, Apple was a niche company. Now they are a mainstream company, enjoying the profits of their success. I know it's not pleasant to hear, but they don't need the creatives any more. Or developers. And that's fine. You can always speak out with your wallet. I didn't like the direction they went in and changed to Windows, but I wasn't reliant on any one thing in the Mac ecosystem. I still have no problem recommending Macs to certain types of users though.
- dirtbox 10y ago
  Apple was never niche within the industry, they were the forefront of mainstream. Now they've alienated absolutely everyone and their only direction seems to be toward proprietary nickel and diming.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> Apple was never niche within the industry, they were the forefront of mainstream. My Apple days go back to the first era of Steve Jobs. I remember when Macs served mainly DTP (desktop publishing) and Education markets and not much else. Back when people literally said "Macs are toys". I used to get weird "Why?" looks when I told people I used a Mac. I don't think any Mac user from that era would say Apple was "at the forefront of mainstream".

hammock 10y ago

Back when Steve Jobs was around, there used to be so much talk about how well and tightly he controlled the media. Guaranteeing he would have many positive stories out there on the day of launch. People would also talk about the Reality Distortion Field. And Gruber would right some well-logicked defense of criticism. Where is the positive PR army? I did not see one single positive story about the recent announcements, following a short Google search!

ohstopitu 10y ago
Almost everyone who actually used the product (tech journalists) have said that they liked the touchbar. I've noticed the negative feedback loop happening on HN and some parts of reddit - it was overwhelmingly positive elsewhere - from Product Hunt to people in person. I know why it's happening as well....a lot of us folks waited pretty long for an upgrade and what we got...it was not what we wanted/hoped for and are left stranded of sorts (do I continue and buy the new laptop? do I move to linux? do I get a windows device? - such questions were never an issue before....want a new device? get the latest macbook pro).

tmaly 10y ago

I think Apple should have followed one of the important mantras in the startup space: Talk to your users. Everyone who owns an MacBook most likely has an apple account with an email. They could have conducted customer development surveys to get a better idea of what features users like the most or use the most.

jld 10y ago
They do, though who knows much it alters the course of the ship. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504685
dasil003 10y ago
Nah, Apple doesn't have to talk to their users. All the feedback they could possibly want is already out there in blog/podcast/twitter form. Their problem is that strategically they underestimate the importance of influencers and power users. Being the market leader makes a company think they just have to satisfy the masses, and they lose the train that in order to satisfy the masses they need to have the best apps, and to have the best apps they need to have developers, and to have developers they need to satisfy power user needs. Apple is at a dangerous juncture right now. They're still holding on to people like me simply because of the shittiness of Windows and Linux overall experience, but once I actually make the jump and sort out the little annoyances and get my workflow set, I'll probably never come back to Mac/iOS. The ecosystem is sticky, but it won't attract new developers the way it's going.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> the shittiness of Windows and Linux I made the switch to Windows, and while it doesn't have the same polish as OSX in many areas, it's pretty good. Even with my OSX muscle memory, it only took a few days to get used to some of the unfamiliar new stuff (to the point where using OSX now feels a little foreign to me). There are things in Windows I hate, but there were things in OSX that I hated too. If you use Windows 10 without too many preconceived notions, it's actually pretty good. It's definitely way better than XP, which was the last Windows OS I used prior to switching to Mac. I don't get many crashes etc., and my workflow is pretty much the same as it was on Mac. I use Cmder as my Terminal replacement, but at some point, I'll use that new Linux stuff they built into the Anniversary Edition of Windows 10.

makecheck 10y ago

When Tim Cook was asked about the Mac after the iPhone event awhile back, he said something like “stay tuned”. Well, unfortunately, post-Mac-event, I am still “staying tuned” because I can’t believe that this is what they meant. How can there be nothing else in the pipeline? A new Pro computer and Pro presentation should look something like: - Sensible flexibility: while some “forward-looking” port like USB-C is expected, there should also be at least one present-day port. No “dongles by default” in a Pro. - Top-line option with significantly higher maximum memory than other available machines, fastest processor options, and even “unnecessary” extras like 16-core or whatever crazy stuff is available. - The entire presentation should focus on the damned Mac. I don’t care about your Watch or your TV because I can look those stats up. I counted, after HALF AN HOUR he started to mention the Mac. Come on. - Every demo should focus on PRO features. I don’t want to see a single consumer item. Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past. Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on stage. - The web site for a Pro computer should be free of animations, with a big fat “Tech Specs” button in large print at the top that links to an ordinary white paper and some performance comparison tables. (The Mac Pro web site has always failed me; took forever to figure out what the thing could even do.)

benologist 10y ago
Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past. Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on stage. Problem is they decided two things and remain committed: 1) Touch has no place on PC screens 2) GPUs aren't that big a deal Intel has only been able to make the slightest performance improvements for years now, combined effect is now Apple get no 'free upgrades' invented by the PC industry to integrate cause all the cool stuff coming out on that side is touch, VR and AR.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  Are GPUs not a big deal only because they refuse to release a modern OpenGL version on macOS?
  - bmh_ca 10y ago

sambe 10y ago

There are plenty of professionals buying Mac who are not the same customer type as most of the professionals here. They can't touch type. Arguably they have always been Apple's core market. For ones saying they don't care about professionals, it's likely to remain a strong, well-designed and productive machine. Maybe a few will leave the walled garden due to this, but I think as many or more will appreciate it.

wppick 10y ago

I think the new MacBook pro is actually a really great move... it was just not sold properly. -USB-C can replace HDMI -Touch bar uses watchOS -The touch bar is actually much better than full touchscreen since lifting your arm up all day to the screen is much more effort and will smudge your display. They didn't sell the possibilities of a dynamic portion of your keyboard -I'm not sure about removing the magsafe port, but I'm sure I won't miss it once I get used to not having it

freehunter 10y ago
I feel like I'm the only one who likes Magsafe in theory but hates it in practice. Setting my laptop on my lap, it ends up pushing the charger against my leg and unplugging it. If it's sitting beside me and I lift it up to put it on my lap or desk, it commonly unplugs just from the weight of the cable pulling down. But when I trip on the cord and it tries to pull straight outward, I've had my laptop tumble to the ground before the cable unplugged. It's great to think that it can unplug itself instead of damage the machine, but in practice I find myself wishing I could get something that just plugs in like normal, or breaks away like an old Xbox cable (i.e., straight out instead of up or down).
sorahn 10y ago
Not only can usb-c replace HDMI, it now is a straight pin through to HDMI. No chips needed. http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/HDMIAltModeUSBTypeC.aspx http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/HDMIAltModeUSBTypeC.aspx

bcheung 10y ago

It definitely feels like Apple is concentrating on the amateur market. I wouldn't say it is geared towards pro users. What they showed would be great for the kind of people who buy the air. Personally, I don't care how much my laptop weighs or how big it is as long as it fits in my backpack. The touch strip is great for scrubbing, that part I liked, but pro users do not use contextual menus like that. They know all the keyboard shortcuts. Scrolling through photos, sliders, scrubbing, timelines, all good use for the touch strip. Menus, not so much. In Photoshop, why would I go through menus to get to the control to change the brush size when I can just press '[' or ']'. And if a person was really a pro they would have a pen with pressure sensitivity already that allows them to change opacity, size, etc by pressing harder. The DJ demo interface looked extremely cumbersome. It's a great alternative if your controller breaks but there's a reason physical sliders and knobs exist. They are easier to use. If you're a professional DJ you are going to use a dedicated external controller. Great if you want to tinker or are an amateur, but not for a professional.

oliv__ 10y ago

I feel like Apple is slowly stripping all of the small but delightful "details" from their products: no more glowing apple logo (completely useless, sure, but iconic at this point), no more magsafe (how many times have you tripped on the cable only to realize it was all good -- thanks magsafe!) To me, these "details" seem to be the little things that contribute to so many people creating deep emotional connections with otherwise cold metal objects. At this pace, not too long from now, cold metal will be all that's left.

72deluxe 10y ago
Oddly, some of those details that they are stripping off are features. This removal of features slims out their laptops and will see me disappear from their user base, so their customer count will also slim. It's insane.

op00to 10y ago

The only thing that really bums me out about the new MacBook Pro not having regular ol' USB ports is that I'll need a dongle for my Yubikey. That sucks, but not enough for me to really give an actual shit.

xenadu02 10y ago

The whining and moaning about dongles is exactly what people said about the original iMac and USB. If you think Apple is going to make room for your old crusty ports when there is a new standard you're crazy and haven't paid any attention to Apple at all. Here's a question: When did HN lose the ability to appreciate awesome technology? Thunderbolt 3 is awesome. The new MBP has four ports. Each port can charge the laptop, supply 15w of power to devices, supports USB 3, a 5K 16bpp deep color display at 60hz (!!), and extends the PCI Express bus to external devices. Yes the transition period will be annoying. Once we get there it will be amazing. TB3 is what I've been wanting out of a connector for a long time. One sturdy, reversible, and universal plug that handles everything in a backwards-compatible way.

renaudg 10y ago
Thank you !

raarts 10y ago

I am very disappointed with the new lineup: no more magsafe, no more 12 hrs battery, much higher price, and no 16GB Ram for the MBA to fall back to. And a touch thingy I didn't ask for to replace my trusty function- and escape keys. I will probably still be buying a Mac PRO, but it's different now: this time I feel Apple knows I've got nowhere to go, and they're strong arming me into buying the new machine. This is a very different feeling from being really enthusiastic about my machine, telling everybody they'll have to pry it out of my sing hands. This time I feel like I'm being treated like a consumer instead of a customer.

thescribe 10y ago

As a long time Apple user this was a mix for me, and I was really hoping for something as good as the MacBook Pro. I really do care about having a nice screen and high quality key switches, so it was nice to see those get an upgrade. I just don't care about weight, If it weight ten pounds but was more powerful I'd still carry it, I don't see why they make them lighter instead of improving airflow. I don't want touch screens, they are such a big negative for me. I still love MacOS and the development ecosystem from it, but it is getting so much harder to justify.

Yetanfou 10y ago

I'll give Apple a hint how to solve this conundrum. a) bring back that key row, people prefer physical keys over touch-strips and -pads and -screens for a reason - you can use them without taking your eyes off the screen b) for those applications where you'd benefit from a visual representation of whatever data you're manipulating the keystrip is rather limited in space, but fortunately nearly all laptops already include a touch-sensitive area under the keyboard... c) ...so just put an OLED-display under the touchpad? Have it run iOS for ease of development, not that developing for iOS is easy but there are loads and loads of developers who already know the platform. Add some haptic feedback to make it usable eyes-off and for those who have bad eyesight and you've got your next 'amazing' gadget. As an added bonus it should be possible to use any iOS device as a 'remote' for applications which utilize the touchpad-with-pictures. Call it DisplayPad and you're done for the next show. The same could be done by Google (Android on ChromeOS or whatever comes after), by Microsoft, by... anyone, really.

oliversl 10y ago

I press F4 every day, read that again, every day to launch apps.