14 ms·

Even if you are morally opposed to prostitution, is there really any benefit to authorities when you remove a centralized location and move it to the street or

by seibelj 10y ago

Even if you are morally opposed to prostitution, is there really any benefit to authorities when you remove a centralized location and move it to the street or many different websites? If you really want to manage the prostitution "problem", having it all on a single website seems like a benefit for managing and researching the issue.

haser_au 10y ago
Same could be said for the legalisation of drugs. Central online repository, good for research.
- skrebbel 10y ago
  Good idea, right!
- kgwgk 10y ago
  And for the legalisation of contract killing or the legalisation of slavery. Of course one might think that drugs or prostitution should be legal but then you don't need to "allow" a special marketplace for an illegal activity.
SwellJoe 10y ago
Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side). Since I started paying attention a few years ago, I've noticed that most commentary from law enforcement and politicians on the subject of prostitution frames it as "human trafficking" or just "trafficking", even when there were no non-consenting parties involved (and nearly all prostitution is between consenting adults). It is misleading, unethical, and actively harmful to the safety of the people they're claiming to help, but, they do it anyway. The implication that someone is being forced into sexual slavery makes them seem like the good guys in the story...when, in reality, they're mostly just harassing and imprisoning poor women who are making an honest living the best way they know how. Of course no one wants to see children being sexually abused. No one wants to see children or otherwise at-risk people forced into prostitution. But, that's already illegal; they don't have to victimize all sex workers to pursue and prosecute those crimes. The kicker here is that the police found these kids who had been forced into sexual slavery because of the ads on this site. Had it been completely underground, they wouldn't have found them, wouldn't have been able to set up a sting, and wouldn't have been able to get the girls out of a dangerous and abusive situation. Now, it goes further underground, where the risk is even higher.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  "Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side)." I did a lot of research on that in college for some legalizing prostitution essays. The research I found, both scholarly and anecdotal, totally supported this. The worst thing I found is that there were many incidences of rape or abuse by clients, pimps, or even cops that were made easier to get away with via the stigma of prostitution. Just bringing up the details of the crime was enough to get themselves arrested. In some cases, judges tossed it out since they equated prostitution with asking for it. So, taking action like this isn't just taking a stand against the act of prostitution: it's also supporting worse crimes to happen to prostitutes and others around them. Not even necessarily people participating. It can be just a caring person that runs afoul of the pimps that want the status quo to remain for specific women.
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    There was an out-pour of articles on this topic after MyRedBook closure, e.g. http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Closure-of-prostitution-website-costly-for-sex-5619118.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Closure-of-prostitution-...
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Thanks for the article. This part jumped out: ""In some instances, you can only get high marks on performance if you perform" without using condoms or other protection, Graham said." Back then, I didn't think about the effect recommendation systems would have outside filtering bad clients. This negative effect on positive reviews is totally believable after all the stories I've seen about people extorting eBay or Amazon store owners for good reviews. This needs further research to figure out how to reduce its effect. It's essentially a form of subversion in practice where prostitutes get positive reviews the more dangerous (i.e. STD's) they are for their more honest clients. On top of pregnancy risks.
throwaway_exer 10y ago
In the Craigslist/Newmark case, what one of the State Attorneys said was, "We don't care about a benefit. We'll just keep prosecuting until all of the sites are shut down." Newmark made the same case as the parent commend, but that was the last thing the last thing the law wanted to hear since they are prosecutors, not social workers.
AJ007 10y ago
The worst case scenario will be a website where it is very hard to impossible for law enforcement to scrape or retrieve phone numbers from and prostitution is blended in with normal activity. Turns out it already exists: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

by seibelj 10y ago

haser_au 10y ago

Same could be said for the legalisation of drugs. Central online repository, good for research.

skrebbel 10y ago
Good idea, right!
kgwgk 10y ago
And for the legalisation of contract killing or the legalisation of slavery. Of course one might think that drugs or prostitution should be legal but then you don't need to "allow" a special marketplace for an illegal activity.

SwellJoe 10y ago

Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side). Since I started paying attention a few years ago, I've noticed that most commentary from law enforcement and politicians on the subject of prostitution frames it as "human trafficking" or just "trafficking", even when there were no non-consenting parties involved (and nearly all prostitution is between consenting adults). It is misleading, unethical, and actively harmful to the safety of the people they're claiming to help, but, they do it anyway. The implication that someone is being forced into sexual slavery makes them seem like the good guys in the story...when, in reality, they're mostly just harassing and imprisoning poor women who are making an honest living the best way they know how. Of course no one wants to see children being sexually abused. No one wants to see children or otherwise at-risk people forced into prostitution. But, that's already illegal; they don't have to victimize all sex workers to pursue and prosecute those crimes. The kicker here is that the police found these kids who had been forced into sexual slavery because of the ads on this site. Had it been completely underground, they wouldn't have found them, wouldn't have been able to set up a sting, and wouldn't have been able to get the girls out of a dangerous and abusive situation. Now, it goes further underground, where the risk is even higher.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
"Most sex workers agree that their safety is improved dramatically by having the business side of it out in the open. And, there have been studies on sex worker safety that indicate strongly that legal prostitution is safer for everyone; it also reduces coercion when it is not underground (women don't need a pimp, if law enforcement is on their side)." I did a lot of research on that in college for some legalizing prostitution essays. The research I found, both scholarly and anecdotal, totally supported this. The worst thing I found is that there were many incidences of rape or abuse by clients, pimps, or even cops that were made easier to get away with via the stigma of prostitution. Just bringing up the details of the crime was enough to get themselves arrested. In some cases, judges tossed it out since they equated prostitution with asking for it. So, taking action like this isn't just taking a stand against the act of prostitution: it's also supporting worse crimes to happen to prostitutes and others around them. Not even necessarily people participating. It can be just a caring person that runs afoul of the pimps that want the status quo to remain for specific women.
- prostoalex 10y ago
  There was an out-pour of articles on this topic after MyRedBook closure, e.g. http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Closure-of-prostitution-website-costly-for-sex-5619118.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Closure-of-prostitution-...
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Thanks for the article. This part jumped out: ""In some instances, you can only get high marks on performance if you perform" without using condoms or other protection, Graham said." Back then, I didn't think about the effect recommendation systems would have outside filtering bad clients. This negative effect on positive reviews is totally believable after all the stories I've seen about people extorting eBay or Amazon store owners for good reviews. This needs further research to figure out how to reduce its effect. It's essentially a form of subversion in practice where prostitutes get positive reviews the more dangerous (i.e. STD's) they are for their more honest clients. On top of pregnancy risks.

throwaway_exer 10y ago

In the Craigslist/Newmark case, what one of the State Attorneys said was, "We don't care about a benefit. We'll just keep prosecuting until all of the sites are shut down." Newmark made the same case as the parent commend, but that was the last thing the last thing the law wanted to hear since they are prosecutors, not social workers.

AJ007 10y ago

The worst case scenario will be a website where it is very hard to impossible for law enforcement to scrape or retrieve phone numbers from and prostitution is blended in with normal activity. Turns out it already exists: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.