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Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

222 points by ssclafani 10y ago

Analemma_ 10y ago
This is a huge problem for Samsung. Individual recalls don't usually damage companies permanently; people understand that sometimes shit happens, and they quickly forget about it. But two in a row, when the replacements were supposed to be safe, is the kind of thing that etches itself much more deeply into public consciousness. Popular culture is now going to be associating "Samsung phone" with "time bomb" for a long time to come.
- molecule 10y ago
  And the event taking place on an airplane is close enough to the nightmare scenario of catching fire during a flight that it will be firmly placed into the public consciousness.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    So are Li-ion battery fires considered metal fires - if so, the instinctual reaction (apply water to extinguish) would be unfortunate...
    - mmagin 10y ago
      Lithium ion batteries do not contain significant amounts of elemental Lithium.
      - spdustin 10y ago
        But water can react with the electrolyte used in many Li-ion cells to form hydrofluoric acid.
    - seanp2k2 10y ago
      Probably lithium polymer but yeah: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yD_Eal1_5NI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yD_Eal1_5NI My RC aircraft group has a 55 gallon drum with salt water at our flying field. RC aircraft pretty much exclusively use lithium polymer packs, sometimes 2 the size of bricks in larger models / big helis. If a lipo starts smoking, you chuck it in the salt water and it shorts it out + cools it down. The reaction when they short internally (such as when they malfunction or get damaged e.g. When a heli crashes and smashes the pack -- they're not super rigid) is more thermite than dynamite, but it can still burn through things like flying tin can aircraft. Here's what happens when you overcharge a few on purpose and beat them with a stick: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=coX0SwubG4A https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=coX0SwubG4A Typically there's quite a bit of warning in the form of smoke first. Not sure if the chemistry in the Samsung batteries but they're likely lithium polymer. There are tons of different chemistries though: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_...
      - detaro 10y ago
        I thought LiFePO4 was common in RC circles? Or only for ground vehicles, or already outdated knowledge?
        extrapickles 10y ago
        They aren't as high capacity (per cost/weight/volume) as LiPoly, so they aren't as common. Flying vehicles even less so as they are more sensitive to power/weight ratios.
  - Twirrim 10y ago
    You can already use it as a grenade/bomb in GTA 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Vaj33RYkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Vaj33RYkI
    - jdormit 10y ago
      That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.
  - roel_v 10y ago
    I flew Emirates last week, and the preflight announcement about electronic devices said use of all devices was ok, except Galaxy Note 7 which need to stay turned off during the whole flight. I can't imagine much worse PR, when yoir products are routinely called out by neutral third parties for being an actual hazard source.
    - thesimon 10y ago
      It was also mentioned on my recent flights in the USA and Europe on various OW airlines as well. Heck even in pre-boarding announcements at the gates. Really not the publicity you want.
      - saryant 10y ago
        I've flown 25k miles in the last three weeks across 5 countries. Every airline mentioned this. American, Japan Airlines, Dragonair, Cathay Pacific, Etihad, JetBlue and Southwest.
        Archio 10y ago
        Do you mind if I inquire what your career is? I would love a technology-related job that allows me to travel like that.
        saryant 10y ago
        Most of that was vacation followed by a week of domestic work travel when I got back.
        csomar 10y ago
        Just travel. Focusing on travel-related jobs is not a great goal. Focus on highly rewarding work, and pay your fares.
        OkGoDoIt 10y ago
        I second this. Work trips are very different from personal travel, and much less fun than people assume. A well paying job with generous vacation time (real vacation, not "available via email" vacations) is better, in my opinion.
  - stesch 10y ago
    A switched off phone. Now airlines need to ban all Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phones. This hurts.
- obtino 10y ago
  This isn't their only appliance that has been catching fires. There are several washing machines in Australia, made by Samsung, that have caused house fires.
  - JumpCrisscross 10y ago
    Source?
    - jurip 10y ago
      Dunno about Australia, but this was about washing machines in the US: http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/28/news/samsung-cpsc-washing-machine-explosion-reports/index.html?sr=twCNN092816samsung-cpsc-washing-machine-explosion-reports0540PMVODtopLink&linkId=29299325 http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/28/news/samsung-cpsc-washing-ma...
    - andymurd 10y ago
      Here you go, AU gov notice: https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/samsung-samsung-top-loader-washing-machines https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/samsung-samsung-top-...
cloudjacker 10y ago
> Green’s Note 7 is in the hands of the Louisville Fire Department’s arson unit for investigation. He has already replaced it with an iPhone 7.
r00fus 10y ago
This entire episode seems hard to believe. How could Sammy fail so hard after so many years of industry knowledge? What corners did they cut? Is it just unbalanced reporting or possibly sabotage? Seriously don't believe they got wrong what everyone else seems to have dodged.
- twblalock 10y ago
  > Is it just unbalanced reporting or possibly sabotage? Seriously don't believe they got wrong what everyone else seems to have dodged. It's happened to other companies in the past. It's entirely plausible that Samsung just screwed up in the design or manufacturing stage, and there is zero evidence of the conspiracies you suggest.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  "Misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe "Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives. Do we not often afflict others undesignedly, and, from mere carelessness, neglect to relieve distress?" -Jane West It's not hard to believe that Samsung has made mistakes, and maybe under the pressure to fix those mistakes has made yet more. It's unfortunate and probably speaks to some cultural issues at the top, but it hardly requires external forces.
- sp332 10y ago
  They're not the only ones, even recently. http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/mcdonalds-recalls-happy-meal-fitness-trackers-after-they-injure-kids/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/mcdonalds-recalls-hap... http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2016/08/04/psa-basis-peak-wearables-can-burn-your-wrist-return-yours-now-for-a-refund/ http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2016/08/04/psa-basis-peak-wear... http://www.pcworld.com/article/3050377/hardware/major-toshiba-laptop-battery-recall-issued-after-faulty-units-overheat-and-literally-melt.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3050377/hardware/major-toshib... https://www.nextpowerup.com/news/29739/xiaomi-mi-band-2-is-prone-to-overheating-causing-wrist-burns/ https://www.nextpowerup.com/news/29739/xiaomi-mi-band-2-is-p... https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Denon-Recalls-Rechargeable-Battery-Packs/ https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Denon-Recalls-Rechargeable...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
JimmaDaRustla 10y ago
I recently flew to Munich/Prague with Air Canada and Lufthansa - the flight attendants said to both not charge a Samsung Note 7 and that they require them to actually also be turned off.
- 4ad 10y ago
  Does turning them off prevent them from catching on fire? What is the actual problem described in technical terms, really?
  - Alupis 10y ago
    > Does turning them off prevent them from catching on fire? Doubtful. Isn't it the Li-ion batteries that are combusting, ie. chemical reaction?
    - eknkc 10y ago
      They might be safe without load on them. Who knows? Maybe Samsung does. I'm imagining cargo ships / stores with stacks of these things though. Wonder if one goes boom, would that spread and start a fire?
      - Alupis 10y ago
        I don't know if load matters[1]. Could be impact related, or heat related, or something else entirely? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLc74Qpvweg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLc74Qpvweg
    - woliveirajr 10y ago
      They are confusing due to overheating. If the phobe is off, no heat is generated.
  - actsasbuffoon 10y ago
    Judging by the fact that the new version of the phone may still be catching fire, we may not know what the cause is. If Samsung had accurately diagnosed the problem in the first place then this incident probably wouldn't have occurred. Someone at Samsung is having a very bad day.
barpet 10y ago
I guess Samsung's overworked,overly stressed employees need to take a rest. No seriously their working culture is showing that no matter how much you try there's always possibility you screw it up. Rest my dear koreans. Rest so you can do better.
djyaz1200 10y ago
Why are we allowing these on airplanes?! Are we waiting for someone to leave one of these devices in their checked luggage so it can start a fire that downs a commercial airliner before banning them?!
resolaibohp 10y ago
It seems to be that Samsung is getting a lot of extra scrutiny based on their recall and the news is exploiting this. Phone batteries have been known to overheat and explode for years now and it is in no way brand specific. I think the way Samsung handled the whole situation was above and beyond how other companies may have responded. They identified an issue, and replaced everything. I am not saying that Samsung could not have made another mistake, but I think it is unreasonable to try and link every single battery issue and explosion under the Samsung brand as something that is a precursor to another giant issue. This recently happened with an iphone on a plane: http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-faa-investigating-after-iphone-catches-fire-mid-flight-n543516 http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-faa-investigatin...
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  > but I think it is unreasonable to try and link every single battery issue and explosion under the Samsung brand as something that is a precursor to another giant issue. I disagree. Given that this phone model already had battery problems, it is not at all irrational to assume the new battery problems are related to (or the same as) the old ones. That's far likelier than the new problems happening by pure coincidence, given that the base rate of phones catching fire is so small. I think what you're forgetting here is that, by far the most likely scenario is that Samsung just didn't fix the original problem correctly.
  - resolaibohp 10y ago
    Perhaps I have more faith in a company whose decision it was to recall all of those phones. They knew that all eyes would be on them after the fact, and to mess up again could be the beginning of the end for their brand. I would think that extra care would have been given in making sure these issues were fixed before releasing them again. Another point to keep in mind is that in perspective, the amount of issues that did occur, compared to how many phones are out there made by Samsung indicates to me that we should have some amount of trust in their products. On the other hand if they did not realize this, perhaps they do deserve all the bad press. Regardless nobody actually knows right now, and my opinion is that I believe this is all news hype bandwagon behavior right now.
radley 10y ago
Interesting he's only been using wireless chargers. I used a Tylt wireless charger for a couple of Nexus 7s and both tablets now have a warped back due to overheating via prolonged charging. Very curious if the fire was specifically caused by wireless charging.
rootbear 10y ago
What a mess. I wouldn't want to be in Samsung quality control right now. In what has to be the nerdiest humor I've ever come up with, I suggested to some astronomer friends here at NASA that this Samsung Galaxy line be rebranded the Samsung Seifert.
mschuster91 10y ago
Well Samsung, that's what you get for using non-replaceable batteries. I hope that this desaster forces either phone vendors or regulatory agencies to mandate replaceable batteries. The EU got through with mandating micro-USB, after all...
- yladiz 10y ago
  It's not fair to say that Samsung deserves this because of a non-removable battery. This could have happened with a removable battery too. Who knows the reason why this happened -- bad battery manufacturer, bad soldering internally, something wrong in the layout of pieces connecting the charger to the battery -- but it's unfair to say this is deserved because they removed something and added something in return, in this case water resistance.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    I own a CAT B15Q, water-resistant, dual-SIM and replaceable battery. Watertightness can be achieved without sacrificing replaceable batteries.
    - yladiz 10y ago
      Yes, but that still doesn't mean Samsung deserves it. The fact that they don't have a removable battery doesn't mean they deserve this, and it doesn't mean that the users who buy their products deserve this.
- MikusR 10y ago
  So replaceable batteries dont explode?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    They can, but you can separate the device from the battery in case of recalls, thus preventing natural resource waste. Also, my Galaxy Note 1 battery blew up on me because I used a cheap charger. I simply took it out, disposed of it at a city waste center, and put in a new battery for 15€. Try this with a "closed" phone. Either you can do it yourself, which requires at minimum 3h time + specialized equipment (e.g. regulated hot air gun), or pay 100€+ to a service center. Thanks but no thanks to fixed batteries.
webaholic 10y ago
"He has already replaced it with an iPhone 7." This is the biggest FU to samsung.
- Steko 10y ago
  The commercial writes itself. Apple should be in negotiations with the guy already.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    I'd say that's beneath Apple. They usually don't attack competitors directly (used to WAY back, but now now). At least I really hope it is. Twisting the knife at something like this would be a pretty horrible thing to do.
    - madeofpalk 10y ago
      Leaders (or at least those who perceive themselves to be) rarely have a need to attack those who are underneath them.
      - MBCook 10y ago
        True, that's why it would feel so cheap. Back when Apple had 4% of the PC market (before iPod) it made sense.
    - MatekCopatek 10y ago
      Didn't they do the whole Mac vs. PC campaign a few years ago? Sure, they didn't point out a specific brand, but on more than one occasion it seemed very obvious what product/company they had in mind.
      - 7Z7 10y ago
        That was when they were the plucky underdog, like with IBM before that. They certainly aren't (and wouldn't accept opinions to the contrary) an underdog to Samsung.
skrowl 10y ago
I think you're forgetting your forum. HN has a very very pro-Apple bias. Anything good for Apple or bad for Apples competitors will get a disproportionate amount of attention here.
- trowawee 10y ago
  Yes. It is a pro-Apple bias that is causing people to be worried/upset about cell phone batteries that can spontaneously catch on fire. You've figured out the conspiracy.
  - skrowl 10y ago
    No, but it's pro-Apple bias that makes you think that this only happens to Samsung. https://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-6s-battery-explosion-fire/ https://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-6s-battery-explosion-fire/ https://bgr.com/2016/09/30/iphone-7-plus-battery-explosion-again/ https://bgr.com/2016/09/30/iphone-7-plus-battery-explosion-a...
    - wyager 10y ago
      iPhones have not had a history of exploding in large numbers, as opposed to Samsung devices.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Is it also pro-Apple bias by the dozens of airlines which have singled out the Note?
- dang 10y ago
  We're going to add a site guideline asking not to post claims like this unless you have data. Otherwise it's just distracting rhetoric. Everyone always thinks HN is biased against their view. Since all these positions contradict one another, they must stem from cognitive bias rather than reality. That explains why discussions based on them are never any good. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646627 and marked it off-topic.
jagermo 10y ago
When we flew with Lufthansa a few weeks ago they expressly forbade the use of the Galaxy Note 7. I have never heard something like that - its a real problem for Samsung.
- rsync 10y ago
  Swiss air flight three weeks ago - same thing. Samsung galaxy 7 specifically mentioned as cannot be powered on during the flight.
  - azinman2 10y ago
    According to the story it wasn't even powered on
- delluminatus 10y ago
  Same deal when I flew United the past weekend. Samsung Note 7s were not allowed to be turned on or charged on the plane. I think they are taking their cue from the FAA recommendation [0]. This is especially bad for Samsung, I think, because it doesn't just affect folks with a Note 7 -- everyone waiting at the gate hears the announcement. Talk about negative brand associations. [0]: https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=86424 https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=86424
- mark-r 10y ago
  Same when I took a Southwest flight last week. According to the article the guy had turned off his phone just before it started smoking.
- JimDabell 10y ago
  I've flown a few times this month (Europe, multiple airlines), and on every flight there were verbal warnings and there were also signs at some of the airports when you check your luggage in. I'm pretty sure most commercial airlines and airports are aware of the issue and are making it widely known. This is going to stick in people's minds – I overhead a couple of conversations where people were a bit confused about whether their phones were safe or not – they knew they had a Samsung, but many people don't differentiate between all the different models.
Xorlev 10y ago
Time to short Samsung.
- twblalock 10y ago
  It's not that easy to buy Samsung stock outside of South Korea.
  - colejohnson66 10y ago
    SSNLF?
    - twblalock 10y ago
      Not that easy unless you are a bit more into stock trading than the average retail investor, or willing to lump SSNLF in with a bunch of other South Korean companies in an index fund. http://www.nasdaq.com/article/why-and-how-to-invest-in-samsung-ssnlf-cm610116 http://www.nasdaq.com/article/why-and-how-to-invest-in-samsu... > The shares of Samsung don’t trade on major exchanges like Nasdaq and NYSE in the U.S. It is listed on the Korean exchange and available as GDR in London and Luxembourg. However, in accordance with Rule 144A of the U.S. Securities Exchange Act, U.S. citizens are prohibited from investing in GDR’s. The following options are available to U.S. investors: > 1. Investors can either buy shares directly in the Korean stock market after proper paper work or through a local securities firm or bank (Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Inc. are eligible) > 2. Investors can buy Samsung’s shares traded over-the-counter in the U.S. > 3. Investors can opt to take exposure to Samsung along with other Korean companies by investing in a South Korea ETF, for example, the iShares MSCI South Korea Capped ETF (EWY) has a heavy exposure of 20.64% towards Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
- comboy 10y ago
  Not a trader, but it sounds more like a blood in the streets situation to me.
fokinsean 10y ago
What happens if someone decides to check it in their luggage and it catches fire there. Are there measures to deal with fires in the cargo hold?
- nostrademons 10y ago
  There are - after a bunch of really bad aircraft fires in the 90s caused by hazardous materials in the cargo holds, the FAA has mandated fire suppression systems in all commercial air cargo holds. Still, though, airlines would rather avoid the problem entirely. Airline safety usually relies on defense-in-depth - you fix the root cause, and then you fix anything else that would've stopped the problem, because things go wrong in a cramped cylinder at 30,000 feet. For example, a fast-moving fire could easily burn through the hydraulics or electronics that would trigger the fire suppression system before it has a chance to go off.
  - hga 10y ago
    And that is how I quickly explain ORM-D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D) class items like small arms ammunition, which of course is allowed to be packed in small quantities in individuals' checked luggage: things that aren't particularly dangerous by themselves, but if in a plane's cargo hold in sufficient quantity, could accelerate a fire beyond the capabilities of those fire suppression systems. Whereas few overly worry about shipping 1000+/- rounds by ground, except e.g. the movers that just moved me to my new home, they really can't afford to play the game of numbers with the few trucks they have (no batteries, or liquids (which could make a schedule breaking mess), either). Big enough high energy batteries on planes, or too close to my skin ... those give me the heebie jeebies....
- ageitgey 10y ago
  Side note: It's against FAA regulations to check bags containing lithium ion batteries. Sometimes they remind you at check-in and sometimes they don't. In theory, you could get into trouble for doing it. https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_inf...
bcheung 10y ago
For those interested in understanding batteries at a more technical level check out this link: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_304b_making_lithium_ion_safe http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_304b_making_li...
sporkologist 10y ago
It's starting to look a little like the Volkswagen fiasco.
vadym909 10y ago
I was on a flight recently and the lady next to me had a large Samsung phone on which she was constantly playing games, etc. and I was very worried. I was also afraid of questioning if it was a Samsung Galaxy Note 7 because the attendant made an announcement saying people should turn it off and she didn't. Next time I'm not going to be afraid. Can't imagine the consequence if it caught fire at 30,000 feet.
- imaginenore 10y ago
  I'm much more worried about something like this in a check-in bag, where the fire can spread uncontrollably. At least in cabin you will notice the fire early and can use the fire extinguisher.
  - x1798DE 10y ago
    I don't think lithium batteries are allowed in check luggage. You're supposed to carry them on.
    - lucaspiller 10y ago
      I believe it's batteries on their own - as long as they are in a device I believe it's fine (if not I've been breaking the law...).
    - chakalakasp 10y ago
      Thank God everyone carefully reads and follows the checked luggage rules and regulations! ;)
  - gambiting 10y ago
    A fire extinguisher is not going to do much against a lithium fire. But at the same time, such fire would end before you even got up from your seat - the only concern would be something inside the plane catching fire, but literally everything inside the cabin is fireproof. Fire inside the hold is another matter entirely, but there are fire suppression systems fitted into all planes nowadays.
- 10y ago
Bud 10y ago
Samsung really needs to cut bait here, accept and admit fully that they made a major engineering mistake, come clean, and forcibly recall ALL the devices, before there is a major disaster. The time for serious, adult action was several weeks ago. From here on out, they deserve what they get.
- tempestn 10y ago
  The thing is, this was a replacement Note 7, which therefore includes their fix for the issue. So either they made a second mistake, or this is a very unlucky coincidence, or something else is going on.
  - skrebbel 10y ago
    Like the GP said, a major engineering mistake.
  - makomk 10y ago
    This was the box for a replacement Note 7. The question is, does the phone match the box?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- ghshephard 10y ago
  Samsung has issued a forcible recall for all the devices. This was not one of the recalled device, it's a new model without the original flaw. This must have been something different. Which begs the question - given the hundreds of millions of smartphones with out there - how many, even without a manufacturing flaw, end up smoking/catching fire? 1 in a million? 1 in 10 million?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - simonh 10y ago
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
What are the odds this is properly investigated? Korean chaebol culture is notoriously close-fisted.
- joonhocho 10y ago
  It wouldn't even have been known to the public, if it happened only in Korea, because they have a complete control of the media in S Korea. When it first happened it Korea, media tried to dismiss it as if it was a false report by black consumers who are trying to win some money by suing Samsung. I found it pretty funny because, in Korea, you never win against any big companies in the court. There are no scenarios where you can sue a company and win any money. Even if, you do end up winning, it won't be in $millions like in US, but will max $10000, which rarely happens at all. So no sane person will even try. I am glad that it also happened in US, because Samsung does not have the same control in US as they do in Korea. The only way for this to be properly investigated is to be done by US, not Korean government. It was really ridiculous to see how all Korean media praised how great a company Samsung is when they announced a recall.
  - p4mk 10y ago
    What about social media? Is it also difficult for such news to spread there?
    - joonhocho 10y ago
      People are afraid to share anything that talks bad about Samsung, because they believe it will affect them negatively in the future when searching for jobs or such.
kabdib 10y ago
Some of the datacenters I visit have signs on them forbidding people from having Samsung Note 7s on the floor. "Keep them in your car," one of the signs said. Hmmm, maybe storing them near many liters of gasoline isn't the best idea . . .
- colejohnson66 10y ago
  I'm sure they'd rather you lose your car than their entire data center
  - lucb1e 10y ago
    The entire datacenter from one 3500mAh 5V battery? That sounds like a book rather than real life. There's a reason people charging quadcopter's lipo batteries are told to watch them while charging, not abandon them.
    - BuildTheRobots 10y ago
      It's not that they'd loose the data centre, but VESDA environmental monitoring units are surprisingly sensitive so you could easily end up with the fire suppression system firing. At best you've then got a >$10k invoice to refill and reset the system. More likely you've got damage to servers, people and/or the building as well as massive amounts of disruption to deal with.
- lucb1e 10y ago
  The gas isn't even what has me worried here, though it's certainly a contributing factor. An untended hot car (basically a greenhouse) with a li-ion battery in it has me worried.
cmurf 10y ago
What percentage of Galaxy Note 7 owners know they have a Galaxy Note 7? I imagine some break down is: I have an Android phone. I have a Samsung phone. I have a Samsung Galaxy. I have a Samsung Galaxy Note. But Samsung Galaxy Note 7, specifically? I'm guessing at best 50% might know that.
- petecox 10y ago
  Closer to 100%. It's a flagship device released less than two months ago (Aug 19), notable for its stylus (that regular Galaxies don't have).
  - barbs 10y ago
    Never underestimate the stupidity of people. My friend works at a Samsung store and had people trying to return their Galaxy S4s.
- BookmarkSaver 10y ago
  I don't follow this at all. I definitely have a very skewed sample, but I haven't ever met a single person who didn't know exactly what type of smartphone they own. Phones are expensive, a Note 7 would be nearly brand new and is the most expensive and highest quality phone out there. I would guess that 99% of owners know what they have. People don't just pick up top-of-the-line flagships on a whim, only the most rich, lazy, AND ignorant person could settle on getting one without knowing exactly what they are buying. Anyone who is missing even just one of those qualities would end up with a different phone or know what they own. And again, I've literally never met a person who couldn't immediately name their model smartphone, not the most dumbass poor person I've met nor my completely tech illiterate grandparents. Also, your breakdown seems fanciful anyway, who in the world would know that they have a Samsung "Galaxy"? No one cares about that name, it's only ever said in the middle of the whole title, it isn't a thing that people think about on its own.
  - Houshalter 10y ago
    Well the Galaxy Note 7 is a higher end device so maybe. But my parents both bought smartphones and they couldn't name the model. I tested this theory just now and my dad got the even the manufacturer wrong.
markdown 10y ago
> Green’s colleague went back onto the plane to retrieve some personal belongings and said that the phone had burned through the carpet and scorched the subfloor of the plane. I'm surprised this airline still doesn't have Planegard or something similar on board their aircraft. Burning/exploding devices are going to happen often enough that this should be a necessity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU4ALLsedj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU4ALLsedj0
grandalf 10y ago
It's my understanding that all Lithium Ion batteries can fairly easily catch fire if they are not treated somewhat carefully, typically by a circuit that prevents loads that might cause it to heat up. Is it theoretically possible that malware could be designed that would cause a Lithium Ion powered smart phone's battery to catch fire? I'm thinking it would be more of a low-level firmware update where a programmable logic device was used as part of the battery protection circuit. Thoughts?
- ZoFreX 10y ago
  This is about Macbooks, not phones, but it's interesting background on your question nonetheless: https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Miller/BH_US_11_Miller_Battery_Firmware_Public_WP.pdf https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Miller/BH_US_11_Miller_B...
- inyorgroove 10y ago
  Though I am only an electronics hobbyist I don't think this is possible. Most of the battery charging chips that you are talking about don't have firmware, that would require them to be I would guess 10x more expensive.
grandalf 10y ago
I'm not sure why everyone is caught up with the competition between Apple and Samsung when the Blu R1-HD sells for $59. Most people I know would be indifferent between the Blu R1-HD and a higher end phone (considering performance, battery life, form factor, build quality, camera and screen quality).
- PostOnce 10y ago
  Theres a bigger difference than you think. I have here a Sony Xperia E1 and a Motorola Moto G (2nd gen) The Xperia is also $59 and Sony is a more widely known brand so let's assume they're similar. The Moto G was $179 new some years ago the Xperia is $59 today. On paper, they're similar in terms of ram, cpu cores, flash, gpu, etc. But in practice... there is an absolute world of difference, and we're not talking flagship phones vs cheap ones, we're talking one cheap phone vs a slightly less cheap phone, but still low-mid range. The screen on the sony sucks by comparison, its all washed out and grey (not IPS), the speakers also suck, the camera sucks, the letters in the SONY logo are falling off it now says SO, the thing is a bastard to hold on to because the case is slippery. It's also just slower for some reason, even though the CPU is faster, so I assume the flash is crappy? And the digitizer sucks, scrolling goes wobbly all the time. (I thought, oh, I'll buy a cheap Sony, they make good stuff... I guess cheap shit is cheap shit no matter whose name is on it.) and that's Sony, so I can only imagine Blu is worse. (just FYI, flagships are better at everything in terms of speed, display quality, camera, feeling, etc, but they also do A LOT MORE physically, i.e. they have NFC, they're waterproof, they read fingerprints, they have multiple gyros, etc)
  - makomk 10y ago
    Why would you imagine that Blu is worse? Especially on the low end, a lot of the older brands can and do trade heavily on their established name and reputation to sell utter crap. There's little downside to this - as you demonstrated, if someone buys their stuff and it turns out to be a piece of shit they'll often just assume that everything else must be even worse. From the specs I can find, the R1 HD has a 5-inch 720p IPS display and much better reviews than the Sony Xperia E1 did. Not only that, at the time of its release the E1 was competing with the Moto E which (like its bigger brother) also had an IPS screen and far better reviews than the E1.
limaoscarjuliet 10y ago
Does anyone else think like me this might be a one time failure that is caused by the replacement phone being dropped or mishandled? Or, perhaps, a setup by the competition? Unless I see statistical evidence that replacement Note 7 is catching on fire (random, different circumstances), then I do not see a reason to believe Note 7 replacement is b0rked. Unfortunately, most people do not reason like that. Samsung's reputation will suffer, even after this single "Replacement Note 7 on fire" incident.
- iends 10y ago
  Most people don't reason like that because there is no acceptable reason for a phone to catch fire from "mishandling" or "dropping". This was even after they thought they fixed the issue, so of course it looks very bad. Not only did they build a dangerous consumer device, it seems they did not actually fix it the second time around.
  - yread 10y ago
    > there is no acceptable reason for a phone to catch fire from "mishandling" or "dropping". maybe there is no acceptable reason but it happens A LOT: https://www.google.nl/search?q=phone+catches+fire+-samsung https://www.google.nl/search?q=phone+catches+fire+-samsung
- PaulRobinson 10y ago
  It's far more likely that in building one of the most sophisticated devices mankind has attempted, they fucked up a bit. It is an insanely hard engineering challenge. I have no problem believing that a malfunction rate in the 0.00000001% region is possible.
frik 10y ago
Boarding an airplane they mention to turn off the Samsung Note 7 for the entire time on board. Samsung will have to release a Note 8 soon. Note 7 users will have a hard time even in future and it's bad for Samsung's brands.
bshastry 10y ago
Why the heck would the article end with the information that the owner has replaced it with iPhone 7. When did the verge start"native" advertising?
- ericzawo 10y ago
  How is that native advertising? It's relevant to the story.
  - vmasto 10y ago
    How is that relevant to the story?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - hueving 10y ago
    It's about as relevant as saying he calmed his nerves from the whole ordeal with an ice cold coca cola.
    - bollockitis 10y ago
      Not really. It implies that the owner no longer has faith in Samsung products and has switched, so I'd say it's relevant. They could have said that he replaced it with "another brand," which would have been more appropriate, but I still think it's relevant.
      - hueving 10y ago
        It's still not relevant to the story, which is about the phone exploding. The owner losing faith in Samsung doesn't matter. The only way it would be relevant is if he has decided ahead of time that he was switching to the iPhone and Samsung tried to bump him off because of it.
PaulRobinson 10y ago
I got a flight across Greece a week or so back. It's the first time a named device was singled out as "do not turn on, do not attempt to charge, please identify yourself to cabin staff"-type stuff since the 1990s when there was a bunch of - I think, Gateway - laptops that were known to catch fire, and they were regularly not allowed on flights. The fact this is a replacement means the product has a major engineering flaw, and is likely to end up meaning the product is scrapped completely. This could be the end of Samsung. They need to get on this and shut it down within a few days. Good luck to them.
- msl 10y ago
  > This could be the end of Samsung. This really could not. Samsung is a gigantic conglomerate. They make everything from power plants to super tankers and weapon systems. They could lose their phone business entirely and still be huge.
  - nolok 10y ago
    It's also not going to kill their phone business, at all.
    - DiabloD3 10y ago
      It won't even end the Galaxy Note product line. They'll just sweep it under the rug and release the next one in 9 months.
sengork 10y ago
Hopefully this means that a replaceable battery makes a comeback in the next Note series.
skc 10y ago
Those iPhone 7 sales numbers are going to be absolutely MONSTROUS.
MickH 10y ago
Appropriate TV advert =====Boom -la la la la lah mental technicians of electronics??????
MickH 10y ago
These phones should be returned immediately by the company before someone inadvertently is dead because think of the senario where someone is driving with this phone in the drivers pocket & catches fire........ all OK if the car isn't doing 70 along a motorway otherwise - danger of a collision.... it has happened in the past re wasps & bees distracting the drivers attention which is a very serious matter. Any spontaneous combustion of anything must be resolved forthwith. So Are these phones being recalled ?
MickH 10y ago
Is there a ceramic furnace liner phone cover ????????
MickH 10y ago
There must be money to be made for a mobile phone mini fire extinguisher???????/

222 points by ssclafani 10y ago

This is a huge problem for Samsung. Individual recalls don't usually damage companies permanently; people understand that sometimes shit happens, and they quickly forget about it. But two in a row, when the replacements were supposed to be safe, is the kind of thing that etches itself much more deeply into public consciousness. Popular culture is now going to be associating "Samsung phone" with "time bomb" for a long time to come.

molecule 10y ago
And the event taking place on an airplane is close enough to the nightmare scenario of catching fire during a flight that it will be firmly placed into the public consciousness.
- r00fus 10y ago
  So are Li-ion battery fires considered metal fires - if so, the instinctual reaction (apply water to extinguish) would be unfortunate...
  - mmagin 10y ago
    Lithium ion batteries do not contain significant amounts of elemental Lithium.
    - spdustin 10y ago
      But water can react with the electrolyte used in many Li-ion cells to form hydrofluoric acid.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Probably lithium polymer but yeah: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yD_Eal1_5NI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yD_Eal1_5NI My RC aircraft group has a 55 gallon drum with salt water at our flying field. RC aircraft pretty much exclusively use lithium polymer packs, sometimes 2 the size of bricks in larger models / big helis. If a lipo starts smoking, you chuck it in the salt water and it shorts it out + cools it down. The reaction when they short internally (such as when they malfunction or get damaged e.g. When a heli crashes and smashes the pack -- they're not super rigid) is more thermite than dynamite, but it can still burn through things like flying tin can aircraft. Here's what happens when you overcharge a few on purpose and beat them with a stick: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=coX0SwubG4A https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=coX0SwubG4A Typically there's quite a bit of warning in the form of smoke first. Not sure if the chemistry in the Samsung batteries but they're likely lithium polymer. There are tons of different chemistries though: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_...
    - detaro 10y ago
      I thought LiFePO4 was common in RC circles? Or only for ground vehicles, or already outdated knowledge?
      - extrapickles 10y ago
        They aren't as high capacity (per cost/weight/volume) as LiPoly, so they aren't as common. Flying vehicles even less so as they are more sensitive to power/weight ratios.
- Twirrim 10y ago
  You can already use it as a grenade/bomb in GTA 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Vaj33RYkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Vaj33RYkI
  - jdormit 10y ago
    That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.
- roel_v 10y ago
  I flew Emirates last week, and the preflight announcement about electronic devices said use of all devices was ok, except Galaxy Note 7 which need to stay turned off during the whole flight. I can't imagine much worse PR, when yoir products are routinely called out by neutral third parties for being an actual hazard source.
  - thesimon 10y ago
    It was also mentioned on my recent flights in the USA and Europe on various OW airlines as well. Heck even in pre-boarding announcements at the gates. Really not the publicity you want.
    - saryant 10y ago
      I've flown 25k miles in the last three weeks across 5 countries. Every airline mentioned this. American, Japan Airlines, Dragonair, Cathay Pacific, Etihad, JetBlue and Southwest.
      - Archio 10y ago
        Do you mind if I inquire what your career is? I would love a technology-related job that allows me to travel like that.
        saryant 10y ago
        Most of that was vacation followed by a week of domestic work travel when I got back.
        csomar 10y ago
        Just travel. Focusing on travel-related jobs is not a great goal. Focus on highly rewarding work, and pay your fares.
        OkGoDoIt 10y ago
        I second this. Work trips are very different from personal travel, and much less fun than people assume. A well paying job with generous vacation time (real vacation, not "available via email" vacations) is better, in my opinion.
- stesch 10y ago
  A switched off phone. Now airlines need to ban all Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phones. This hurts.
obtino 10y ago
This isn't their only appliance that has been catching fires. There are several washing machines in Australia, made by Samsung, that have caused house fires.
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  Source?
  - jurip 10y ago
    Dunno about Australia, but this was about washing machines in the US: http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/28/news/samsung-cpsc-washing-machine-explosion-reports/index.html?sr=twCNN092816samsung-cpsc-washing-machine-explosion-reports0540PMVODtopLink&linkId=29299325 http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/28/news/samsung-cpsc-washing-ma...
  - andymurd 10y ago
    Here you go, AU gov notice: https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/samsung-samsung-top-loader-washing-machines https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/samsung-samsung-top-...

cloudjacker 10y ago

> Green’s Note 7 is in the hands of the Louisville Fire Department’s arson unit for investigation. He has already replaced it with an iPhone 7.

r00fus 10y ago

This entire episode seems hard to believe. How could Sammy fail so hard after so many years of industry knowledge? What corners did they cut? Is it just unbalanced reporting or possibly sabotage? Seriously don't believe they got wrong what everyone else seems to have dodged.

twblalock 10y ago
> Is it just unbalanced reporting or possibly sabotage? Seriously don't believe they got wrong what everyone else seems to have dodged. It's happened to other companies in the past. It's entirely plausible that Samsung just screwed up in the design or manufacturing stage, and there is zero evidence of the conspiracies you suggest.
M_Grey 10y ago
"Misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent." -Johann Wolfgang Goethe "Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives. Do we not often afflict others undesignedly, and, from mere carelessness, neglect to relieve distress?" -Jane West It's not hard to believe that Samsung has made mistakes, and maybe under the pressure to fix those mistakes has made yet more. It's unfortunate and probably speaks to some cultural issues at the top, but it hardly requires external forces.
sp332 10y ago
They're not the only ones, even recently. http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/mcdonalds-recalls-happy-meal-fitness-trackers-after-they-injure-kids/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/mcdonalds-recalls-hap... http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2016/08/04/psa-basis-peak-wearables-can-burn-your-wrist-return-yours-now-for-a-refund/ http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2016/08/04/psa-basis-peak-wear... http://www.pcworld.com/article/3050377/hardware/major-toshiba-laptop-battery-recall-issued-after-faulty-units-overheat-and-literally-melt.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3050377/hardware/major-toshib... https://www.nextpowerup.com/news/29739/xiaomi-mi-band-2-is-prone-to-overheating-causing-wrist-burns/ https://www.nextpowerup.com/news/29739/xiaomi-mi-band-2-is-p... https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Denon-Recalls-Rechargeable-Battery-Packs/ https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Denon-Recalls-Rechargeable...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

JimmaDaRustla 10y ago

I recently flew to Munich/Prague with Air Canada and Lufthansa - the flight attendants said to both not charge a Samsung Note 7 and that they require them to actually also be turned off.

4ad 10y ago
Does turning them off prevent them from catching on fire? What is the actual problem described in technical terms, really?
- Alupis 10y ago
  > Does turning them off prevent them from catching on fire? Doubtful. Isn't it the Li-ion batteries that are combusting, ie. chemical reaction?
  - eknkc 10y ago
    They might be safe without load on them. Who knows? Maybe Samsung does. I'm imagining cargo ships / stores with stacks of these things though. Wonder if one goes boom, would that spread and start a fire?
    - Alupis 10y ago
      I don't know if load matters[1]. Could be impact related, or heat related, or something else entirely? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLc74Qpvweg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLc74Qpvweg
  - woliveirajr 10y ago
    They are confusing due to overheating. If the phobe is off, no heat is generated.
- actsasbuffoon 10y ago
  Judging by the fact that the new version of the phone may still be catching fire, we may not know what the cause is. If Samsung had accurately diagnosed the problem in the first place then this incident probably wouldn't have occurred. Someone at Samsung is having a very bad day.

barpet 10y ago

I guess Samsung's overworked,overly stressed employees need to take a rest. No seriously their working culture is showing that no matter how much you try there's always possibility you screw it up. Rest my dear koreans. Rest so you can do better.

djyaz1200 10y ago

Why are we allowing these on airplanes?! Are we waiting for someone to leave one of these devices in their checked luggage so it can start a fire that downs a commercial airliner before banning them?!

resolaibohp 10y ago

It seems to be that Samsung is getting a lot of extra scrutiny based on their recall and the news is exploiting this. Phone batteries have been known to overheat and explode for years now and it is in no way brand specific. I think the way Samsung handled the whole situation was above and beyond how other companies may have responded. They identified an issue, and replaced everything. I am not saying that Samsung could not have made another mistake, but I think it is unreasonable to try and link every single battery issue and explosion under the Samsung brand as something that is a precursor to another giant issue. This recently happened with an iphone on a plane: http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-faa-investigating-after-iphone-catches-fire-mid-flight-n543516 http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-faa-investigatin...

Analemma_ 10y ago
> but I think it is unreasonable to try and link every single battery issue and explosion under the Samsung brand as something that is a precursor to another giant issue. I disagree. Given that this phone model already had battery problems, it is not at all irrational to assume the new battery problems are related to (or the same as) the old ones. That's far likelier than the new problems happening by pure coincidence, given that the base rate of phones catching fire is so small. I think what you're forgetting here is that, by far the most likely scenario is that Samsung just didn't fix the original problem correctly.
- resolaibohp 10y ago
  Perhaps I have more faith in a company whose decision it was to recall all of those phones. They knew that all eyes would be on them after the fact, and to mess up again could be the beginning of the end for their brand. I would think that extra care would have been given in making sure these issues were fixed before releasing them again. Another point to keep in mind is that in perspective, the amount of issues that did occur, compared to how many phones are out there made by Samsung indicates to me that we should have some amount of trust in their products. On the other hand if they did not realize this, perhaps they do deserve all the bad press. Regardless nobody actually knows right now, and my opinion is that I believe this is all news hype bandwagon behavior right now.

radley 10y ago

Interesting he's only been using wireless chargers. I used a Tylt wireless charger for a couple of Nexus 7s and both tablets now have a warped back due to overheating via prolonged charging. Very curious if the fire was specifically caused by wireless charging.

rootbear 10y ago

What a mess. I wouldn't want to be in Samsung quality control right now. In what has to be the nerdiest humor I've ever come up with, I suggested to some astronomer friends here at NASA that this Samsung Galaxy line be rebranded the Samsung Seifert.

mschuster91 10y ago

Well Samsung, that's what you get for using non-replaceable batteries. I hope that this desaster forces either phone vendors or regulatory agencies to mandate replaceable batteries. The EU got through with mandating micro-USB, after all...

yladiz 10y ago
It's not fair to say that Samsung deserves this because of a non-removable battery. This could have happened with a removable battery too. Who knows the reason why this happened -- bad battery manufacturer, bad soldering internally, something wrong in the layout of pieces connecting the charger to the battery -- but it's unfair to say this is deserved because they removed something and added something in return, in this case water resistance.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  I own a CAT B15Q, water-resistant, dual-SIM and replaceable battery. Watertightness can be achieved without sacrificing replaceable batteries.
  - yladiz 10y ago
    Yes, but that still doesn't mean Samsung deserves it. The fact that they don't have a removable battery doesn't mean they deserve this, and it doesn't mean that the users who buy their products deserve this.
MikusR 10y ago
So replaceable batteries dont explode?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mschuster91 10y ago
  They can, but you can separate the device from the battery in case of recalls, thus preventing natural resource waste. Also, my Galaxy Note 1 battery blew up on me because I used a cheap charger. I simply took it out, disposed of it at a city waste center, and put in a new battery for 15€. Try this with a "closed" phone. Either you can do it yourself, which requires at minimum 3h time + specialized equipment (e.g. regulated hot air gun), or pay 100€+ to a service center. Thanks but no thanks to fixed batteries.

webaholic 10y ago

"He has already replaced it with an iPhone 7." This is the biggest FU to samsung.

Steko 10y ago
The commercial writes itself. Apple should be in negotiations with the guy already.
- MBCook 10y ago
  I'd say that's beneath Apple. They usually don't attack competitors directly (used to WAY back, but now now). At least I really hope it is. Twisting the knife at something like this would be a pretty horrible thing to do.
  - madeofpalk 10y ago
    Leaders (or at least those who perceive themselves to be) rarely have a need to attack those who are underneath them.
    - MBCook 10y ago
      True, that's why it would feel so cheap. Back when Apple had 4% of the PC market (before iPod) it made sense.
  - MatekCopatek 10y ago
    Didn't they do the whole Mac vs. PC campaign a few years ago? Sure, they didn't point out a specific brand, but on more than one occasion it seemed very obvious what product/company they had in mind.
    - 7Z7 10y ago
      That was when they were the plucky underdog, like with IBM before that. They certainly aren't (and wouldn't accept opinions to the contrary) an underdog to Samsung.

skrowl 10y ago

I think you're forgetting your forum. HN has a very very pro-Apple bias. Anything good for Apple or bad for Apples competitors will get a disproportionate amount of attention here.

trowawee 10y ago
Yes. It is a pro-Apple bias that is causing people to be worried/upset about cell phone batteries that can spontaneously catch on fire. You've figured out the conspiracy.
- skrowl 10y ago
  No, but it's pro-Apple bias that makes you think that this only happens to Samsung. https://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-6s-battery-explosion-fire/ https://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-6s-battery-explosion-fire/ https://bgr.com/2016/09/30/iphone-7-plus-battery-explosion-again/ https://bgr.com/2016/09/30/iphone-7-plus-battery-explosion-a...
  - wyager 10y ago
    iPhones have not had a history of exploding in large numbers, as opposed to Samsung devices.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Is it also pro-Apple bias by the dozens of airlines which have singled out the Note?
dang 10y ago
We're going to add a site guideline asking not to post claims like this unless you have data. Otherwise it's just distracting rhetoric. Everyone always thinks HN is biased against their view. Since all these positions contradict one another, they must stem from cognitive bias rather than reality. That explains why discussions based on them are never any good. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646627 and marked it off-topic.

jagermo 10y ago

When we flew with Lufthansa a few weeks ago they expressly forbade the use of the Galaxy Note 7. I have never heard something like that - its a real problem for Samsung.

rsync 10y ago
Swiss air flight three weeks ago - same thing. Samsung galaxy 7 specifically mentioned as cannot be powered on during the flight.
- azinman2 10y ago
  According to the story it wasn't even powered on
delluminatus 10y ago
Same deal when I flew United the past weekend. Samsung Note 7s were not allowed to be turned on or charged on the plane. I think they are taking their cue from the FAA recommendation [0]. This is especially bad for Samsung, I think, because it doesn't just affect folks with a Note 7 -- everyone waiting at the gate hears the announcement. Talk about negative brand associations. [0]: https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=86424 https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=86424
mark-r 10y ago
Same when I took a Southwest flight last week. According to the article the guy had turned off his phone just before it started smoking.
JimDabell 10y ago
I've flown a few times this month (Europe, multiple airlines), and on every flight there were verbal warnings and there were also signs at some of the airports when you check your luggage in. I'm pretty sure most commercial airlines and airports are aware of the issue and are making it widely known. This is going to stick in people's minds – I overhead a couple of conversations where people were a bit confused about whether their phones were safe or not – they knew they had a Samsung, but many people don't differentiate between all the different models.

Xorlev 10y ago

Time to short Samsung.

twblalock 10y ago
It's not that easy to buy Samsung stock outside of South Korea.
- colejohnson66 10y ago
  SSNLF?
  - twblalock 10y ago
    Not that easy unless you are a bit more into stock trading than the average retail investor, or willing to lump SSNLF in with a bunch of other South Korean companies in an index fund. http://www.nasdaq.com/article/why-and-how-to-invest-in-samsung-ssnlf-cm610116 http://www.nasdaq.com/article/why-and-how-to-invest-in-samsu... > The shares of Samsung don’t trade on major exchanges like Nasdaq and NYSE in the U.S. It is listed on the Korean exchange and available as GDR in London and Luxembourg. However, in accordance with Rule 144A of the U.S. Securities Exchange Act, U.S. citizens are prohibited from investing in GDR’s. The following options are available to U.S. investors: > 1. Investors can either buy shares directly in the Korean stock market after proper paper work or through a local securities firm or bank (Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Inc. are eligible) > 2. Investors can buy Samsung’s shares traded over-the-counter in the U.S. > 3. Investors can opt to take exposure to Samsung along with other Korean companies by investing in a South Korea ETF, for example, the iShares MSCI South Korea Capped ETF (EWY) has a heavy exposure of 20.64% towards Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
comboy 10y ago
Not a trader, but it sounds more like a blood in the streets situation to me.

fokinsean 10y ago

What happens if someone decides to check it in their luggage and it catches fire there. Are there measures to deal with fires in the cargo hold?

nostrademons 10y ago
There are - after a bunch of really bad aircraft fires in the 90s caused by hazardous materials in the cargo holds, the FAA has mandated fire suppression systems in all commercial air cargo holds. Still, though, airlines would rather avoid the problem entirely. Airline safety usually relies on defense-in-depth - you fix the root cause, and then you fix anything else that would've stopped the problem, because things go wrong in a cramped cylinder at 30,000 feet. For example, a fast-moving fire could easily burn through the hydraulics or electronics that would trigger the fire suppression system before it has a chance to go off.
- hga 10y ago
  And that is how I quickly explain ORM-D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D) class items like small arms ammunition, which of course is allowed to be packed in small quantities in individuals' checked luggage: things that aren't particularly dangerous by themselves, but if in a plane's cargo hold in sufficient quantity, could accelerate a fire beyond the capabilities of those fire suppression systems. Whereas few overly worry about shipping 1000+/- rounds by ground, except e.g. the movers that just moved me to my new home, they really can't afford to play the game of numbers with the few trucks they have (no batteries, or liquids (which could make a schedule breaking mess), either). Big enough high energy batteries on planes, or too close to my skin ... those give me the heebie jeebies....
ageitgey 10y ago
Side note: It's against FAA regulations to check bags containing lithium ion batteries. Sometimes they remind you at check-in and sometimes they don't. In theory, you could get into trouble for doing it. https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_inf...

bcheung 10y ago

For those interested in understanding batteries at a more technical level check out this link: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_304b_making_lithium_ion_safe http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_304b_making_li...

sporkologist 10y ago

It's starting to look a little like the Volkswagen fiasco.

vadym909 10y ago

I was on a flight recently and the lady next to me had a large Samsung phone on which she was constantly playing games, etc. and I was very worried. I was also afraid of questioning if it was a Samsung Galaxy Note 7 because the attendant made an announcement saying people should turn it off and she didn't. Next time I'm not going to be afraid. Can't imagine the consequence if it caught fire at 30,000 feet.

imaginenore 10y ago
I'm much more worried about something like this in a check-in bag, where the fire can spread uncontrollably. At least in cabin you will notice the fire early and can use the fire extinguisher.
- x1798DE 10y ago
  I don't think lithium batteries are allowed in check luggage. You're supposed to carry them on.
  - lucaspiller 10y ago
    I believe it's batteries on their own - as long as they are in a device I believe it's fine (if not I've been breaking the law...).
  - chakalakasp 10y ago
    Thank God everyone carefully reads and follows the checked luggage rules and regulations! ;)
- gambiting 10y ago
  A fire extinguisher is not going to do much against a lithium fire. But at the same time, such fire would end before you even got up from your seat - the only concern would be something inside the plane catching fire, but literally everything inside the cabin is fireproof. Fire inside the hold is another matter entirely, but there are fire suppression systems fitted into all planes nowadays.
10y ago

Bud 10y ago

Samsung really needs to cut bait here, accept and admit fully that they made a major engineering mistake, come clean, and forcibly recall ALL the devices, before there is a major disaster. The time for serious, adult action was several weeks ago. From here on out, they deserve what they get.

tempestn 10y ago
The thing is, this was a replacement Note 7, which therefore includes their fix for the issue. So either they made a second mistake, or this is a very unlucky coincidence, or something else is going on.
- skrebbel 10y ago
  Like the GP said, a major engineering mistake.
- makomk 10y ago
  This was the box for a replacement Note 7. The question is, does the phone match the box?
  - deleted 10y ago
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ghshephard 10y ago
Samsung has issued a forcible recall for all the devices. This was not one of the recalled device, it's a new model without the original flaw. This must have been something different. Which begs the question - given the hundreds of millions of smartphones with out there - how many, even without a manufacturing flaw, end up smoking/catching fire? 1 in a million? 1 in 10 million?
- deleted 10y ago
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- simonh 10y ago

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

What are the odds this is properly investigated? Korean chaebol culture is notoriously close-fisted.

joonhocho 10y ago
It wouldn't even have been known to the public, if it happened only in Korea, because they have a complete control of the media in S Korea. When it first happened it Korea, media tried to dismiss it as if it was a false report by black consumers who are trying to win some money by suing Samsung. I found it pretty funny because, in Korea, you never win against any big companies in the court. There are no scenarios where you can sue a company and win any money. Even if, you do end up winning, it won't be in $millions like in US, but will max $10000, which rarely happens at all. So no sane person will even try. I am glad that it also happened in US, because Samsung does not have the same control in US as they do in Korea. The only way for this to be properly investigated is to be done by US, not Korean government. It was really ridiculous to see how all Korean media praised how great a company Samsung is when they announced a recall.
- p4mk 10y ago
  What about social media? Is it also difficult for such news to spread there?
  - joonhocho 10y ago
    People are afraid to share anything that talks bad about Samsung, because they believe it will affect them negatively in the future when searching for jobs or such.

kabdib 10y ago

Some of the datacenters I visit have signs on them forbidding people from having Samsung Note 7s on the floor. "Keep them in your car," one of the signs said. Hmmm, maybe storing them near many liters of gasoline isn't the best idea . . .

colejohnson66 10y ago
I'm sure they'd rather you lose your car than their entire data center
- lucb1e 10y ago
  The entire datacenter from one 3500mAh 5V battery? That sounds like a book rather than real life. There's a reason people charging quadcopter's lipo batteries are told to watch them while charging, not abandon them.
  - BuildTheRobots 10y ago
    It's not that they'd loose the data centre, but VESDA environmental monitoring units are surprisingly sensitive so you could easily end up with the fire suppression system firing. At best you've then got a >$10k invoice to refill and reset the system. More likely you've got damage to servers, people and/or the building as well as massive amounts of disruption to deal with.
lucb1e 10y ago
The gas isn't even what has me worried here, though it's certainly a contributing factor. An untended hot car (basically a greenhouse) with a li-ion battery in it has me worried.

cmurf 10y ago

What percentage of Galaxy Note 7 owners know they have a Galaxy Note 7? I imagine some break down is: I have an Android phone. I have a Samsung phone. I have a Samsung Galaxy. I have a Samsung Galaxy Note. But Samsung Galaxy Note 7, specifically? I'm guessing at best 50% might know that.

petecox 10y ago
Closer to 100%. It's a flagship device released less than two months ago (Aug 19), notable for its stylus (that regular Galaxies don't have).
- barbs 10y ago
  Never underestimate the stupidity of people. My friend works at a Samsung store and had people trying to return their Galaxy S4s.
BookmarkSaver 10y ago
I don't follow this at all. I definitely have a very skewed sample, but I haven't ever met a single person who didn't know exactly what type of smartphone they own. Phones are expensive, a Note 7 would be nearly brand new and is the most expensive and highest quality phone out there. I would guess that 99% of owners know what they have. People don't just pick up top-of-the-line flagships on a whim, only the most rich, lazy, AND ignorant person could settle on getting one without knowing exactly what they are buying. Anyone who is missing even just one of those qualities would end up with a different phone or know what they own. And again, I've literally never met a person who couldn't immediately name their model smartphone, not the most dumbass poor person I've met nor my completely tech illiterate grandparents. Also, your breakdown seems fanciful anyway, who in the world would know that they have a Samsung "Galaxy"? No one cares about that name, it's only ever said in the middle of the whole title, it isn't a thing that people think about on its own.
- Houshalter 10y ago
  Well the Galaxy Note 7 is a higher end device so maybe. But my parents both bought smartphones and they couldn't name the model. I tested this theory just now and my dad got the even the manufacturer wrong.

markdown 10y ago

> Green’s colleague went back onto the plane to retrieve some personal belongings and said that the phone had burned through the carpet and scorched the subfloor of the plane. I'm surprised this airline still doesn't have Planegard or something similar on board their aircraft. Burning/exploding devices are going to happen often enough that this should be a necessity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU4ALLsedj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU4ALLsedj0

grandalf 10y ago

It's my understanding that all Lithium Ion batteries can fairly easily catch fire if they are not treated somewhat carefully, typically by a circuit that prevents loads that might cause it to heat up. Is it theoretically possible that malware could be designed that would cause a Lithium Ion powered smart phone's battery to catch fire? I'm thinking it would be more of a low-level firmware update where a programmable logic device was used as part of the battery protection circuit. Thoughts?

ZoFreX 10y ago
This is about Macbooks, not phones, but it's interesting background on your question nonetheless: https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Miller/BH_US_11_Miller_Battery_Firmware_Public_WP.pdf https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Miller/BH_US_11_Miller_B...
inyorgroove 10y ago
Though I am only an electronics hobbyist I don't think this is possible. Most of the battery charging chips that you are talking about don't have firmware, that would require them to be I would guess 10x more expensive.

grandalf 10y ago

I'm not sure why everyone is caught up with the competition between Apple and Samsung when the Blu R1-HD sells for $59. Most people I know would be indifferent between the Blu R1-HD and a higher end phone (considering performance, battery life, form factor, build quality, camera and screen quality).

PostOnce 10y ago
Theres a bigger difference than you think. I have here a Sony Xperia E1 and a Motorola Moto G (2nd gen) The Xperia is also $59 and Sony is a more widely known brand so let's assume they're similar. The Moto G was $179 new some years ago the Xperia is $59 today. On paper, they're similar in terms of ram, cpu cores, flash, gpu, etc. But in practice... there is an absolute world of difference, and we're not talking flagship phones vs cheap ones, we're talking one cheap phone vs a slightly less cheap phone, but still low-mid range. The screen on the sony sucks by comparison, its all washed out and grey (not IPS), the speakers also suck, the camera sucks, the letters in the SONY logo are falling off it now says SO, the thing is a bastard to hold on to because the case is slippery. It's also just slower for some reason, even though the CPU is faster, so I assume the flash is crappy? And the digitizer sucks, scrolling goes wobbly all the time. (I thought, oh, I'll buy a cheap Sony, they make good stuff... I guess cheap shit is cheap shit no matter whose name is on it.) and that's Sony, so I can only imagine Blu is worse. (just FYI, flagships are better at everything in terms of speed, display quality, camera, feeling, etc, but they also do A LOT MORE physically, i.e. they have NFC, they're waterproof, they read fingerprints, they have multiple gyros, etc)
- makomk 10y ago
  Why would you imagine that Blu is worse? Especially on the low end, a lot of the older brands can and do trade heavily on their established name and reputation to sell utter crap. There's little downside to this - as you demonstrated, if someone buys their stuff and it turns out to be a piece of shit they'll often just assume that everything else must be even worse. From the specs I can find, the R1 HD has a 5-inch 720p IPS display and much better reviews than the Sony Xperia E1 did. Not only that, at the time of its release the E1 was competing with the Moto E which (like its bigger brother) also had an IPS screen and far better reviews than the E1.

limaoscarjuliet 10y ago

Does anyone else think like me this might be a one time failure that is caused by the replacement phone being dropped or mishandled? Or, perhaps, a setup by the competition? Unless I see statistical evidence that replacement Note 7 is catching on fire (random, different circumstances), then I do not see a reason to believe Note 7 replacement is b0rked. Unfortunately, most people do not reason like that. Samsung's reputation will suffer, even after this single "Replacement Note 7 on fire" incident.

iends 10y ago
Most people don't reason like that because there is no acceptable reason for a phone to catch fire from "mishandling" or "dropping". This was even after they thought they fixed the issue, so of course it looks very bad. Not only did they build a dangerous consumer device, it seems they did not actually fix it the second time around.
- yread 10y ago
  > there is no acceptable reason for a phone to catch fire from "mishandling" or "dropping". maybe there is no acceptable reason but it happens A LOT: https://www.google.nl/search?q=phone+catches+fire+-samsung https://www.google.nl/search?q=phone+catches+fire+-samsung
PaulRobinson 10y ago
It's far more likely that in building one of the most sophisticated devices mankind has attempted, they fucked up a bit. It is an insanely hard engineering challenge. I have no problem believing that a malfunction rate in the 0.00000001% region is possible.

frik 10y ago

Boarding an airplane they mention to turn off the Samsung Note 7 for the entire time on board. Samsung will have to release a Note 8 soon. Note 7 users will have a hard time even in future and it's bad for Samsung's brands.

bshastry 10y ago

Why the heck would the article end with the information that the owner has replaced it with iPhone 7. When did the verge start"native" advertising?

ericzawo 10y ago
How is that native advertising? It's relevant to the story.
- vmasto 10y ago
  How is that relevant to the story?
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- hueving 10y ago
  It's about as relevant as saying he calmed his nerves from the whole ordeal with an ice cold coca cola.
  - bollockitis 10y ago
    Not really. It implies that the owner no longer has faith in Samsung products and has switched, so I'd say it's relevant. They could have said that he replaced it with "another brand," which would have been more appropriate, but I still think it's relevant.
    - hueving 10y ago
      It's still not relevant to the story, which is about the phone exploding. The owner losing faith in Samsung doesn't matter. The only way it would be relevant is if he has decided ahead of time that he was switching to the iPhone and Samsung tried to bump him off because of it.

PaulRobinson 10y ago

I got a flight across Greece a week or so back. It's the first time a named device was singled out as "do not turn on, do not attempt to charge, please identify yourself to cabin staff"-type stuff since the 1990s when there was a bunch of - I think, Gateway - laptops that were known to catch fire, and they were regularly not allowed on flights. The fact this is a replacement means the product has a major engineering flaw, and is likely to end up meaning the product is scrapped completely. This could be the end of Samsung. They need to get on this and shut it down within a few days. Good luck to them.

msl 10y ago
> This could be the end of Samsung. This really could not. Samsung is a gigantic conglomerate. They make everything from power plants to super tankers and weapon systems. They could lose their phone business entirely and still be huge.
- nolok 10y ago
  It's also not going to kill their phone business, at all.
  - DiabloD3 10y ago
    It won't even end the Galaxy Note product line. They'll just sweep it under the rug and release the next one in 9 months.

sengork 10y ago

Hopefully this means that a replaceable battery makes a comeback in the next Note series.

skc 10y ago

Those iPhone 7 sales numbers are going to be absolutely MONSTROUS.

MickH 10y ago

Appropriate TV advert =====Boom -la la la la lah mental technicians of electronics??????

MickH 10y ago

These phones should be returned immediately by the company before someone inadvertently is dead because think of the senario where someone is driving with this phone in the drivers pocket & catches fire........ all OK if the car isn't doing 70 along a motorway otherwise - danger of a collision.... it has happened in the past re wasps & bees distracting the drivers attention which is a very serious matter. Any spontaneous combustion of anything must be resolved forthwith. So Are these phones being recalled ?

MickH 10y ago

Is there a ceramic furnace liner phone cover ????????

MickH 10y ago

There must be money to be made for a mobile phone mini fire extinguisher???????/