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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

354 points by stevekemp 10y ago

stevekemp 10y ago
Posted because we just received our 2016 box, and I thought it was fascinating to see the contents as a Scottish man: * http://imgur.com/a/I0NYI http://imgur.com/a/I0NYI
- dijit 10y ago
  I think this idea is super cool and I have no qualms with my tax money going to stuff like this- it's incredibly welcoming and needed in one of the most uncertain and harshest times in an adult life. What's interesting to me is that half the book is Swedish and the other half Finnish, I had no idea that Finnish people learned Swedish so early- yet their English proficiency is so much higher.
  - jib 10y ago
    Swedish is an official language in Finland and the native language of about 5% or so of all Finnish people (think like French in Canada). Especially Åland Islands is heavily Swedish speaking.
    - greenshackle 10y ago
      Eh, kind of, Canada is 20% native French; there are more French Canadians than Finnish people. Actually, if you look at Finland and Sweden as a whole, with Sweden having twice as many people, it's more like Finnish is French, and Swedish English. In this analogy, the Swedish speaking finns are more like anglos living in Quebec.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - fsloth 10y ago
    Finns don't really learn swedish, unless one lives in an area with a large swedish speaking population. In total swedish speaking population is only a few percent, but there are areas with a higher concentration. The reason it's bilingual is because swedish is the second official language in finland. Because history (sweden ruled finland up to 19th century, swedish speaking population retained considerable political power even after that).
    - maus42 10y ago
      >Finns don't really learn swedish Which is funny, considering how many years (6 I guess?) the Swedish language is a compulsory subject for Finnish-speaking Finns.
      - stevekemp 10y ago
        Just goes to show you can't learn a language unless you use it in real-life.
      - fsloth 10y ago
        To retain a language it requires active usage. Swedish has zero utility outside school environment unless someones life is such it includes interaction in swedish. Most people I know are more fluent in english than in swedish. While I personally retain some rudimentary basics, when I need to talk to my swedish colleague, I use english. To get MSc one must theoretically prove to be able to communicate in swedish but the minimum acceptable level - how to put it - is not very high.
  - akavi 10y ago
    Since the sibling comments already explained the Finland-Swedes, I'll just add a bit of trivia relevant to this crowd: Linus Torvalds is one of them. His first language was Swedish, and apparently he's never spoken Finnish particularly well.
    - ane 10y ago
      He speaks Finnish fluently, I've videos of his lectures about Linux from the 90s at Helsinki University. Had I not known who he was, I would have not guessed he was of the Swedish-speaking minority (either that or I wasn't paying attention, I saw them ten years ago). You can find some videos on YouTube, no doubt.
      - akavi 10y ago
        Interesting! I'd read an interview where he claimed his proficiency was noticeably non-native[0], but maybe he was just being self-effacing. [0] http://www.linuxveda.com/2011/11/02/which-is-linus-torvalds-native-language-finnish-or-swedish/ http://www.linuxveda.com/2011/11/02/which-is-linus-torvalds-...
        ptaipale 10y ago
        Linus has excellent proficiency in Finnish; his intonation is distinctly that of a Swedish-speaking native but that is just a matter of style. But then there are Finnish rock stars who lived a year in Stockholm and then pretended they've forgotten all about Finnish language. (Andy McCoy of Hanoi Rocks, I mean).
- agentgt 10y ago
  My wife and I our currently expecting and are about to have a baby shower. For those unfamiliar with the shower concept here in the US we have a party that is generally more expensive then if you were to just buy the baby stuff. We invite people over and they give us stuff off a list that is at a few big box stores. Registering for the baby shower was my eye opener of what we are getting ourselves into. I actually seriously wondered what we would do if we didn't have friends, family and/or money. I had no clue where to start. I wasn't even sure what car seat we needed (the baby store will tell you). I have to say though I'm amazed by the quality of the cardboard box stuff. Some of that stuff looks better than the stuff we registered for :).
  - blowski 10y ago
    Congratulations! It's the most rewarding yet terrifying experience that can't be compared to anything else. Nobody is prepared enough to be a parent for the first time, yet somehow it (usually) just works out. A previously unused part of your brain just serms to become available.
  - NoGravitas 10y ago
    If you have friends and/or family, but no money, you rely heavily on hand-me-downs. An example of ours -- although cloth diapers are cheaper in the long run than disposable diapers, the start-up costs are steep. But we've had to buy less than 1/5 of the cloth diapers we've used, because they pass through a loose network of friends. If you don't have friends or family, the only money saving option really available in the US (that I know of) is used/thrift shops and consignment sales.
    - hotsy_botsy 10y ago
      A legitimately good part of Facebook is the community driven support groups and swap groups. My wife and I also cloth diapered, we picked up almost all of them through local swap groups and some through ebay. When our son grew out of things we posted these things back to these support groups. My wife organized around 10-15 meetups at a nearby park and made back ~US$300. I think the largest item sold was his infant car seat and stroller combo that went for $65 or $75. So yea, both coming and going, these local groups were troves of good cheap items.
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  Wow. There are so many clothes! This is awesome. What other items have you bought? How large of a variety are the clothes they send - does everyone get the same stuff?
  - stevekemp 10y ago
    So far we've bought zero items, but that's largely because we've been lucky to have some friends with children who could donate to us. Things we would have otherwise bought: * Pram. * Cot - for when the box is out of use. * More clothes. This video makes the contents more explicit, but yeah lots of stuff: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKF_6MTN9I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKF_6MTN9I
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Scotland will be doing something similar soon: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/scotland-nordic-style-baby-boxes-snp-tackle-infant-poverty-a6989136.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...
  - stevekemp 10y ago
    I saw that when it was announced, but I've not seen any update. Great news though. There are some commercial companies who sell boxes based on the ones here, but they look a little mixed. (Either too little "stuff", too expensive, or both.)
    - babilen 10y ago
      It's part of the current "A plan for Scotland" [0] which mentions: "deliver a baby box offering essential items for a child’s first weeks to the families of all newborn babies in Scotland, to promote the fair and equal start we want for every child regardless of circumstance. We will consult with key stakeholders and with parents in autumn 2016, with full roll-out in 2017" [0] http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00505210.pdf http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00505210.pdf
- f4stjack 10y ago
  No reason why but tears welled up in my eyes when I see the first toy. Congrats btw.
  - stevekemp 10y ago
    I had the same reaction when I went through the things with my wife.
- vlehto 10y ago
  The fine print in the book is education to completely clueless parent. Basically how to bathe the baby, how to touch him/her and how to play with him/her. As a dude, I'd probably find that useful, as weird as it may sound. And it's probably important for the baby now that I think of it. Sensory deprivation could hinder development. And that could happen if parent is clueless enough.
  - c22 10y ago
    > As a dude, I'd probably find that useful, as weird as it may sound. It only sounds weird because you prefaced it with "as a dude" implying what? That ladies have some sort of genetic knowledge of baby rearing techniques? That they receive special classes about it in highschool? I don't know, sounds weird though.
    - lexhaynes 10y ago
      To be fair, young girls are heavily socialized to play with dolls, to play "mommy and baby" games, to push around toy baby carriages... in essence the "average" girl has been trained for motherhood her whole life.
      - ekianjo 10y ago
        Thats a pretty big cliche.
        grive 10y ago
        The cliché is girls that are socialized that way. It's still overwhelmingly true that girls will have dolls more often than boys and that it will format their behavior. Recognising that is not perpetuating or condoning it.
        infinite8s 10y ago
        That also doesn't mean they have a clue on how to deal with an actual baby
- rplnt 10y ago
  I can only imagine how corrupt would be the process of selecting contents for the box if they were to implement it in Slovakia. That's a lot of stuff - a lot of opportunities to steal something from taxpayers.
  - atmosx 10y ago
    I was thinking the same about Greece. Young mothers would be desperate to have such a thing, but local crooked politicians and oligarchs would turn the procedure into a money-spent hole, using the worst materials while double-charging...
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  I first heard about these reading "The Nordic Theory of Everything", which contrasts Finland with the US, last month. It was fascinating to read as a Brit as the UK sits half way between the two in approach to many things. Significantly more useful than the bag of freebies and coupons given to new mums in the UK.
  - johan_larson 10y ago
    "The Nordic Theory of Everything" is indeed a very interesting book. A view of American society from the outside looking in.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- achikin 10y ago
  I used to have the same owls on my sheets when I was a child in Russia. Fascinating to see it's international.
DanBC 10y ago
It's a great programme. You might be interested in some of the comments here, from 3 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728
pingec 10y ago
If anyone else wondered why the Finnish baby box includes condoms: http://help.finnishbabybox.com/article/9-why-do-your-baby-boxes-come-with-condoms http://help.finnishbabybox.com/article/9-why-do-your-baby-bo...
- arcanus 10y ago
  Well considered, if only to get folks to ask why they are included. Many do not realize how quickly some women can get pregnant again after giving birth.
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    Definitely guilty of not asking. Am currently awaiting birth of second child.
    - Declanomous 10y ago
      Forgive me if this is overly intrusive, but were you breastfeeding the child? I was under the impression that you are extremely unlikely to get pregnant whilst nursing.
      - kchoudhu 10y ago
        We were in the process of weaning the first one when the second one was conceived. I was mostly kidding about not knowing the chances; what we weren't expecting was for it to happen so quickly. Biology can be hilarious like that.
      - quadrangle 10y ago
        Not the parent poster, but I think it's as simple as "unlikely" NOT "extremely unlikely"
      - ska 10y ago
        Breastfeeding makes it less likely. Not extremely unlikely.
fao_ 10y ago
tl;dr: It's not because the cardboard boxes are significantly better than cribs and other sleeping methods, it's the fact that the box comes with almost everything a new parent needs to look after kids, which means they don't have to shell out $foo-money to be able to take care of the children properly, and aren't left worried that they left something out.
- giarc 10y ago
  And also because the parents need to visit a doctor to get the box.
  - geon 10y ago
    That makes no sense. How does the requirement to visit a doctor imply that the babies sleep in a box? Wouldn't they sleep there if the box was given out without a visit to the doctor?
    - ceejayoz 10y ago
      The doctor's visit gives the doctor an opportunity to establish a relationship and do a bit of education for the new parents.
    - chrissnell 10y ago
      You would be surprised at how many babies are born in western countries without prenatal care, simply because the mothers-to-be didn't know that it was something that was available and needed. Encouraging new moms to visit the doctor is a fantastic thing. Besides check-ups, it encourages vaccinations and can help with early identification of congenital problems.
    - djrogers 10y ago
      Pre and Post-natal care are two of the largest factors in lower infant mortality. By using the box to get Moms in to a doctor's office at least once, many difficulties can be found and overcome.
    - giarc 10y ago
tzakrajs 10y ago
That gear looks well designed.
- stevekemp 10y ago
  It does. I expected it to be a little cheap because most baby-stuff isn't going to be useful for very long (the babies growing so quickly), but all of it felt solid, and the designs are pretty great too.
  - wmt 10y ago
    The cloth diapers are also a nice touch! We ended up using mostly cloth diapers until the baby started eating solid foods.
    - sevensor 10y ago
      We liked cloth too, but it's a lot of laundry. We switched to disposable for the last child. I think it's more economical to use cloth diapers if you can afford the extra time it takes to manage them.
  - ChoHag 10y ago
    They're not used for long but while they're used they're used hard.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Actually the quality is excellent, the stuff generally lasts very long. There's not that much of an aftermarket though because everyone has one. Government gets it quite cheap at the quantities it buys; an itemized list is here: http://www.mtv.fi/lifestyle/koti/artikkeli/mita-aitiyspakkauksen-tuotteet-maksavat-katso-yksityiskohtaiset-tiedot/4817656 http://www.mtv.fi/lifestyle/koti/artikkeli/mita-aitiyspakkau... The package total was 136.78 € (about 150 $ USD) in 2015. The mother does not have to take the package, she can also opt to get the money instead. Another interesting quirk is that if you get twins, you can apply for three packages, and if you get triplets, you can apply up to six packages!
arcanus 10y ago
If only the USA had a similar program!
- freyir 10y ago
  We can't divert money away from the war machine.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    In Finland, the package was actually seen as a part of the war machine. The package developed from assistance baskets delivered to low-income mothers by General Mannerheim's Child Protection Society after the Finnish civil war (1918), and became a government program in 1937 by offering the package to low-income mothers. The purpose was to increase birth rate and reduce infant mortality by drawing mothers to pre-natal care with the promise of free stuff. It was expanded during the years of WW II and offered to all mothers starting 1947, at a time when the country was recovering from war and paying war reparations to USSR and everyone was really piss-poor, so poor it makes me want to cry. The country was under tremendous pressure from the Soviets and had to desperately assign all available resources to defence, food production and other essential items. Making parents feel that the government cares for them was important in the war years.
- KillerRAK 10y ago
  We can -- let's start with a population the size of Finland. The State of Colorado has about the same # of people -- a great place to start! Think critically before you toss out the old argument: The U.S. should do X, just like Y; where X is the socialist program of choice and Y is a Nordic Country of your choosing.
  - oblio 10y ago
    Ummm... isn't the US GDP per capita higher than Finland's?
    - freyir 10y ago
jbredeche 10y ago
There's a company that sells a version of the Finnish baby box, and we got one for our kid: http://www.babyboxco.com/ http://www.babyboxco.com/ - everyone loved it. My wife is part Finnish, but we're in the US, so this was a good approximation.
- spiffyman 10y ago
  I have a question. Our first child is due this week, and we also got a box from babyboxco. What did/do you use as sheets for the box's pad? We noticed this week that the sheet that came with it is just a non-fitted one that fits a regular-sized crib.
  - jbredeche 10y ago
    Congrats! I think we used a pack-and-play sheet, which was too big and we just rolled the edges under.
nkassis 10y ago
As a way to bring something like this to the US. I wonder if something like this could work as a similar model to Toms. Buy one give one away to a family need.
- stevekemp 10y ago
  There are private companies replicating the idea: * http://www.babyboxco.com/ http://www.babyboxco.com/ * http://britishbabybox.com/ http://britishbabybox.com/ * https://www.finnishbabybox.com/ https://www.finnishbabybox.com/ Seems like if you had the right marketing and the right balance of items/price it'd make a nice startup.
  - a_bonobo 10y ago
    I've ordered from the third company to Australia, didn't take very long and was (and is!) extremely useful, not to say much cheaper than what I would've paid with Australian prices for most of the clothes for the first year.
  - gmanis 10y ago
    I started a similar one for the Indian market but so far haven't had much success.
    - stevekemp 10y ago
      If you have a website this would be the perfect thread in which to add a link!
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    I watched the first one being A/B tested on the UES Mom's group on Facebook. I'm convinced that it is the first proto-useful thing to come out of New York's Upper East Side in the 21st century.
monkpit 10y ago
Build your own baby kit. (Just add baby)
gdelfino01 10y ago
In Venezuela the babies are being put in cardboard boxes too: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3800058/The-youngest-victims-economic-disaster-Babies-left-cardboard-boxes-cash-strapped-hospital-Venezuela-country-spirals-financial-abyss.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3800058/The-youngest...
- ptaipale 10y ago
  These pictures are not "shocking". The babies sleep in boxes and seem to be doing all right. If you have limited resources, you should put the money in essential things. Proper food and medication is more important than having a big fancy bed. The babies sleeping in these pictures appear to be fed and well dressed. But it is of course possible that in other respects, the Venezuelan baby care is lacking due to corruption and mismanagement. I can imagine that the level of care and attention given depends a lot on what kind of people you happen to have in each place.
riprowan 10y ago
Baby-box-industry lobbying intensifies
scraft 10y ago
I have seen this one before, but was happy to read through it again. I have zero interest in having children, but think this is a great idea and would be more than happy for my taxes to help pay for it. The thing is, if this did exist in the UK (where I live), it feels like it would be the first thing to be dropped at the next budget - feels like the only chance it would have of existing in the UK would have been if it was introduced 25+ years ago :(
- desas 10y ago
  You get a bag full of coupons and advertorials, perhaps a free sample like a nappy in the UK instead. "Bounty bags" are the main ones.
ChoHag 10y ago
Universal Baby Incubation will never work. Mothers will no longer buy anything for their baby because sufficient is supplied by the state.
jcoffland 10y ago
We should try giving useful items to welfare recipients instead of just money. It would be a great way to insure that the support was going to the right things. Why not give kids a back to school kit? This could be huge for kids in situations where no one will buy them the things they need for school. This happens a lot more than most people know.
- d_e_solomon 10y ago
  That's a pretty controversial statement. Many countries are experimenting with purely cash based welfare instead of in-kind. See: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/welfare-reform-direct-cash-poor/407236/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/wel...
- patja 10y ago
  The world abounds with people so full of hubris that they are firmly convicted they have the answers to others' needs and problems. Why not give kids a back to school kit? Because maybe they need food or socks or medicine more than they need a protractor or a PeeChee. If you want to help them give them money. Most people can figure out what they need for themselves.
toomanybeersies 10y ago
The BBC did a follow up article on this recently: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35834370 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35834370 Apparently spurned by the article, a few startups have appeared offering similar boxes in other countries.
Maarten88 10y ago
> it's designed to give all children in Finland, no matter what background they're from, an equal start in life So nice to read this! It's a pity that ideals like these are things from the past, completely gone in our western, capitalist culture. Words like those now mostly invoke feelings of cynicism and snarks about socialism or communism.
- galonk 10y ago
  Finland is a western, capitalist culture. Most western, capitalist countries have more compassionate cultures than the United States.
  - Maarten88 10y ago
    Do you think that, if this program had not been invented yet, that it could be introduced now, by the current government, in Finland? I'm from the Netherlands (supposedly more compassionate), and we have something like this box. Only the program is run by a marketing data company that wants to sell your data, and box is filled with low value goodies and commercial offerings. The Finnish box is much nicer, as it seems offered with the right intensions and the content is really helpful.
vishalzone2002 10y ago
Great idea. I think in US, we can build a warby parker model for this.
- xufi 10y ago
  Same here, I actually read/watched a documentary about sleep that pointed they do this a lot in Scandinavian countries (such as this article). Hopefully the uS can find a solution like it
martinrame 10y ago
I feel sad for reading this, here in Argentina until December 2015 we had a similar state backed plan called Qunita. Now the new right-handed government cancelled the plan without delivering 60k boxes and a judge is trying to burn those arguing insecurity (but none of the 1000s of mothers who received them found any glitch in the boxes). Please read more (in spanish): http://www.infobae.com/politica/2016/09/14/bonadio-ordeno-destruir-60-mil-cunas-del-plan-qunita-por-inseguras/ http://www.infobae.com/politica/2016/09/14/bonadio-ordeno-de...
- Faaak 10y ago
  This is not constructive, but what a dickhead.
  - okwhatthe2 10y ago
    When I think of a dickhead I think of someone who has a virile and penetrating mind.
- polmuz 10y ago
  > I feel sad for reading this, here in Argentina until December 2015 we had a similar state backed plan called Qunita. Now the new right-handed government cancelled the plan without delivering 60k boxes and a judge is trying to burn those arguing insecurity (but none of the 1000s of mothers who received them found any glitch in the boxes). How do you know that none of the mothers had a problem with them? Are there any studies about this? On the other hand there are three studies pointing that the box had problems and it was considered unsafe (sharp edges, structure fails with weights under 9kg). [0] Not to mention that one of the companies tasked to build it was just a small real estate company that thanks to that government program increased their revenue by 15.000.000% (in your face SV unicorns!!).[1] [0] http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1871615-plan-qunita-inseguros-cunas http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1871615-plan-qunita-inseguros-cun... (spanish) [1] http://www.eliminandovariables.com/2015/06/el-kindergate-y-el-gran-sueno-argentino_12.html http://www.eliminandovariables.com/2015/06/el-kindergate-y-e... (spanish)
  - 10y ago
NetStrikeForce 10y ago
We had a baby a few months ago. We got so many clothes from friends and family, some of it brand new, that our baby haven't had the chance to use it all before outgrowing it. We even got the pram, cot and car seats (plural!) for free. It's crazy. Any clothing we bought was just because we liked it and not because we needed it. Seriously, I don't know how is it in northern cultures, but where I come from it is extremely common to get the clothes from your cousins (and pass them on to the next :)), regardless of your money (unless you are rich, in which case I don't know how it works :)). I'm not sure if this is a Latin thing, Southern European thing, Mediterranean thing or what :) Edit: My point being: Corruption (as mentioned by others in different countries) and the very strong family support networks in other cultures might be the reason why this doesn't exist in other European countries.
deviate_X 10y ago
Socialisms! http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/face-screaming-in-fear.png http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/face-scre...
eggy 10y ago
I like the idea of all of the goodies, but as I have mentioned in another reply, I am on my third child, and they have always slept in bed with us, so the box and mattress is still weird for me. I have even slept with one of my babies in a small bed for all three of us with no issue. We have never owned a crib or bassinet by the bedside even. I may be wrong, but I remember hearing it was during Victorian times that this became popular. I know there are people afraid of smothering or crushing their infants. Most negative studies seem to come out of the US. Other countries don't seem to have the same issues cited in US studies. I think it is common sense not to sleep with your baby in bed if you have waterbed, or tons of pillows, a soft mattress and a fluffy comforter. My wife and I don't drink alcohol either, so no possibility of being so drunk that we would be unaware of smothering our baby, and neither of us is hypermobile in bed. All mammals keep their young close. The 'co-sleeping' is a modern term that makes it sound out of the ordinary, but in fact it is very ordinary. People will say they slept better and the baby got used to being in another room, or across the room, but I can say from three babies worth of fathering, they get comfortable real quick being in bed with their parents.
- zo1 10y ago
  Some people are very heavy sleepers and might not notice turning over onto their infant. Additionally, the other big reason that you're not supposed to have an infant sleep in a normal bed is that they might roll off. It's fine I guess if both parents are around and "box" the infant in, but otherwise it's quite possible that the infant might toss over one too-many times and fall off the bed.
  - thedudemabry 10y ago
    We've occasionally brought our little dude into bed with us when he's going nuts, but also know the potential consequences. It's not generally safe to bring a child into an adult bed and I know without my spouse being super-vigilant I might roll over onto him.
    - eggy 10y ago
      Yes, it takes two to parent in all things family! Congratulations on your little one! I didn't realize how much I would enjoy fatherhood until I became one.
pxeboot 10y ago
They do give these out at some US hospitals: http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/health/2016/07/04/alaskas-largest-maternity-center-begins-offering-free-baby-boxes-to-new-parents/ http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/health/2016/07/04/alaskas-lar...
chrissnell 10y ago
I love this, especially the inclusion of the book that helps new parents with the basics. Becoming a parent is such an overwhelming avalanche of advice (good and bad) and piles of crap. There is a massive industry dedicated to preying on the paranoia and naïveté of new parents. With that first baby, you're awash in a sea of ridiculous products like microwave baby bottle sterilizers and electric bottle heaters. By the second or third month, you come to realize just how worthless all of this junk is and you toss most of it and go back to the basics--the basics that are included in the Finnish baby box. How much easier it would have been if someone had handed us a box and a book and said, "Everything you will need for the first three months is in here."
- djrogers 10y ago
  Everything you've said is true, however all you've done is given the state the responsibility of deciding what part of the avalanche of advice is good and what part is bad.
  - steve-benjamins 10y ago
    Which might be sensible. As OP has suggested, the state may be better than the market at this.
    - ekianjo 10y ago
      Except when its not. Not talking about Finland here, but the amount of poor decisions in many areas related to welfare would suggest that mor often than not its a pretty bad idea to trust the state.
      - deong 10y ago
        It requires the ability to govern one's selves effectively, which we in the US have proven beyond all doubt we're not capable of doing.
  - SamBam 10y ago
    The state is not out to make a profit. And you forget that in Scandinavian countries, the state is generally considered to be trusted by the citizens.
marknutter 10y ago
I don't like how they correlate this cardboard box starter kit program to Finland's low infant mortality rate. The claim that the U.S. has such a high infant mortality rate compared to other industrialized nation has been thoroughly debunked[1]. [1] - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/3/editorial-the-statistics-of-life/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/3/editorial-the...
whafro 10y ago
I got two of these when our son was born a couple years back, and they were amazing. I posted a review and tons of photos: https://www.care.com/c/stories/580/a-year-with-the-finnish-maternity-box/ https://www.care.com/c/stories/580/a-year-with-the-finnish-m... Yes, we did use the box. Yes, we did use all the clothes, lotions, toys, etc. In fact, our son basically wore nothing except eurogarb for his first year. There are some commercial versions of this available in the US, though they're relatively pricey. The fact that this is a public benefit in some places is truly awesome, and something I wish could be politically tenable here in the US.
keepper 10y ago
<rant> Not directly related to the article, but reading thru the series of negative replies when a poster suggests "hey, this is a great idea, we should do it in the US", is disheartening. A great deal are so fiscally short sighted, misguided, and downright hostile, that it really takes away any hope for the "average American". HN demographic should represent some of the best of the best of the US, and well... i guess this kinda explain the rise of Trump. </rant>
- titanomachy 10y ago
  Maybe the US is just too big and heterogeneous for this kind of thinking. I mentally multiply the cost of the box by the 4 million babies born each year, come up with some absurdly large number, feel overwhelmed by the need to pay for so many people. Of course, the burden of that cost is shared across many people as well, but the huge number has already asserted itself in my mind; I can't help thinking what that billion dollars could buy for me and mine. I can't help thinking how different from me are some of the people receiving my hard-earned money. Never mind that those same people are providing the funding when I have my child. Finland has ~50k babies born each year. Everyone speaks the same language, has a shared cultural identity; each one of those 50k mothers could be your neighbour, your sister. There is real empathy: the thought of depriving one of those mothers is painful. I don't know what the solution is. Smaller, more culturally homogeneous states? I hope not. I like living amid diversity. Maybe we can build a cultural identity that sees fellow citizens as kin instead of just greedy, grabbing hands. Or maybe I should just move to Finland.
  - serge2k 10y ago
    > I don't know what the solution is. Not being greedy and selfish and complaining because other people got something. That would help at least.
    - v64 10y ago
      The problem is, where do you draw the line?
  - 10y ago
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penaman56 10y ago
I've heard that Finns even have another box as a 'paternity package', which complements the content of the maternity package. But I guess that is not state sponsored: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/
penaman56 10y ago
I've heard that Finns even have another box for dads as 'paternity package' which complements the content of maternity package. But that is probably not state sponsored: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/
dancek 10y ago
You actually have the choice between the box or 140 euros, but not many people take the money. We did, once. If you have twins, you're allowed three boxes---if triplets, six. We had twins so we opted for two boxes and the money.
oftenwrong 10y ago
Last time I came across an article about this, I found out that there is a company that sells a version of the "Finnish baby box". https://finnishbabybox.com/ https://finnishbabybox.com/
- Havoc 10y ago
  Wouldn't be surprised if the Finnish gov could make some decent money by selling the real deal (at market rate).
Animats 10y ago
France goes way beyond that.[1] [1] http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92116914 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9211691...
_ph_ 10y ago
As millions of cats have shown, there is no better place to sleep than a cardbord box :) Joking aside, this looks like a fantastical practical approach to social support. No complex and very expensive program, just a very practical "starter set" for parents. It relieves both a possible financial burden and of course makes sure, that nothing immediately important item isn't present at a time when parents probably think about a lot of things but not shopping.

354 points by stevekemp 10y ago

Posted because we just received our 2016 box, and I thought it was fascinating to see the contents as a Scottish man: * http://imgur.com/a/I0NYI http://imgur.com/a/I0NYI

dijit 10y ago
I think this idea is super cool and I have no qualms with my tax money going to stuff like this- it's incredibly welcoming and needed in one of the most uncertain and harshest times in an adult life. What's interesting to me is that half the book is Swedish and the other half Finnish, I had no idea that Finnish people learned Swedish so early- yet their English proficiency is so much higher.
- jib 10y ago
  Swedish is an official language in Finland and the native language of about 5% or so of all Finnish people (think like French in Canada). Especially Åland Islands is heavily Swedish speaking.
  - greenshackle 10y ago
    Eh, kind of, Canada is 20% native French; there are more French Canadians than Finnish people. Actually, if you look at Finland and Sweden as a whole, with Sweden having twice as many people, it's more like Finnish is French, and Swedish English. In this analogy, the Swedish speaking finns are more like anglos living in Quebec.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- fsloth 10y ago
  Finns don't really learn swedish, unless one lives in an area with a large swedish speaking population. In total swedish speaking population is only a few percent, but there are areas with a higher concentration. The reason it's bilingual is because swedish is the second official language in finland. Because history (sweden ruled finland up to 19th century, swedish speaking population retained considerable political power even after that).
  - maus42 10y ago
    >Finns don't really learn swedish Which is funny, considering how many years (6 I guess?) the Swedish language is a compulsory subject for Finnish-speaking Finns.
    - stevekemp 10y ago
      Just goes to show you can't learn a language unless you use it in real-life.
    - fsloth 10y ago
      To retain a language it requires active usage. Swedish has zero utility outside school environment unless someones life is such it includes interaction in swedish. Most people I know are more fluent in english than in swedish. While I personally retain some rudimentary basics, when I need to talk to my swedish colleague, I use english. To get MSc one must theoretically prove to be able to communicate in swedish but the minimum acceptable level - how to put it - is not very high.
- akavi 10y ago
  Since the sibling comments already explained the Finland-Swedes, I'll just add a bit of trivia relevant to this crowd: Linus Torvalds is one of them. His first language was Swedish, and apparently he's never spoken Finnish particularly well.
  - ane 10y ago
    He speaks Finnish fluently, I've videos of his lectures about Linux from the 90s at Helsinki University. Had I not known who he was, I would have not guessed he was of the Swedish-speaking minority (either that or I wasn't paying attention, I saw them ten years ago). You can find some videos on YouTube, no doubt.
    - akavi 10y ago
      Interesting! I'd read an interview where he claimed his proficiency was noticeably non-native[0], but maybe he was just being self-effacing. [0] http://www.linuxveda.com/2011/11/02/which-is-linus-torvalds-native-language-finnish-or-swedish/ http://www.linuxveda.com/2011/11/02/which-is-linus-torvalds-...
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        Linus has excellent proficiency in Finnish; his intonation is distinctly that of a Swedish-speaking native but that is just a matter of style. But then there are Finnish rock stars who lived a year in Stockholm and then pretended they've forgotten all about Finnish language. (Andy McCoy of Hanoi Rocks, I mean).
agentgt 10y ago
My wife and I our currently expecting and are about to have a baby shower. For those unfamiliar with the shower concept here in the US we have a party that is generally more expensive then if you were to just buy the baby stuff. We invite people over and they give us stuff off a list that is at a few big box stores. Registering for the baby shower was my eye opener of what we are getting ourselves into. I actually seriously wondered what we would do if we didn't have friends, family and/or money. I had no clue where to start. I wasn't even sure what car seat we needed (the baby store will tell you). I have to say though I'm amazed by the quality of the cardboard box stuff. Some of that stuff looks better than the stuff we registered for :).
- blowski 10y ago
  Congratulations! It's the most rewarding yet terrifying experience that can't be compared to anything else. Nobody is prepared enough to be a parent for the first time, yet somehow it (usually) just works out. A previously unused part of your brain just serms to become available.
- NoGravitas 10y ago
  If you have friends and/or family, but no money, you rely heavily on hand-me-downs. An example of ours -- although cloth diapers are cheaper in the long run than disposable diapers, the start-up costs are steep. But we've had to buy less than 1/5 of the cloth diapers we've used, because they pass through a loose network of friends. If you don't have friends or family, the only money saving option really available in the US (that I know of) is used/thrift shops and consignment sales.
  - hotsy_botsy 10y ago
    A legitimately good part of Facebook is the community driven support groups and swap groups. My wife and I also cloth diapered, we picked up almost all of them through local swap groups and some through ebay. When our son grew out of things we posted these things back to these support groups. My wife organized around 10-15 meetups at a nearby park and made back ~US$300. I think the largest item sold was his infant car seat and stroller combo that went for $65 or $75. So yea, both coming and going, these local groups were troves of good cheap items.
Normal_gaussian 10y ago
Wow. There are so many clothes! This is awesome. What other items have you bought? How large of a variety are the clothes they send - does everyone get the same stuff?
- stevekemp 10y ago
  So far we've bought zero items, but that's largely because we've been lucky to have some friends with children who could donate to us. Things we would have otherwise bought: * Pram. * Cot - for when the box is out of use. * More clothes. This video makes the contents more explicit, but yeah lots of stuff: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKF_6MTN9I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKF_6MTN9I
s_kilk 10y ago
Scotland will be doing something similar soon: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/scotland-nordic-style-baby-boxes-snp-tackle-infant-poverty-a6989136.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...
- stevekemp 10y ago
  I saw that when it was announced, but I've not seen any update. Great news though. There are some commercial companies who sell boxes based on the ones here, but they look a little mixed. (Either too little "stuff", too expensive, or both.)
  - babilen 10y ago
    It's part of the current "A plan for Scotland" [0] which mentions: "deliver a baby box offering essential items for a child’s first weeks to the families of all newborn babies in Scotland, to promote the fair and equal start we want for every child regardless of circumstance. We will consult with key stakeholders and with parents in autumn 2016, with full roll-out in 2017" [0] http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00505210.pdf http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00505210.pdf
f4stjack 10y ago
No reason why but tears welled up in my eyes when I see the first toy. Congrats btw.
- stevekemp 10y ago
  I had the same reaction when I went through the things with my wife.
vlehto 10y ago
The fine print in the book is education to completely clueless parent. Basically how to bathe the baby, how to touch him/her and how to play with him/her. As a dude, I'd probably find that useful, as weird as it may sound. And it's probably important for the baby now that I think of it. Sensory deprivation could hinder development. And that could happen if parent is clueless enough.
- c22 10y ago
  > As a dude, I'd probably find that useful, as weird as it may sound. It only sounds weird because you prefaced it with "as a dude" implying what? That ladies have some sort of genetic knowledge of baby rearing techniques? That they receive special classes about it in highschool? I don't know, sounds weird though.
  - lexhaynes 10y ago
    To be fair, young girls are heavily socialized to play with dolls, to play "mommy and baby" games, to push around toy baby carriages... in essence the "average" girl has been trained for motherhood her whole life.
    - ekianjo 10y ago
      Thats a pretty big cliche.
      - grive 10y ago
        The cliché is girls that are socialized that way. It's still overwhelmingly true that girls will have dolls more often than boys and that it will format their behavior. Recognising that is not perpetuating or condoning it.
        infinite8s 10y ago
        That also doesn't mean they have a clue on how to deal with an actual baby
rplnt 10y ago
I can only imagine how corrupt would be the process of selecting contents for the box if they were to implement it in Slovakia. That's a lot of stuff - a lot of opportunities to steal something from taxpayers.
- atmosx 10y ago
  I was thinking the same about Greece. Young mothers would be desperate to have such a thing, but local crooked politicians and oligarchs would turn the procedure into a money-spent hole, using the worst materials while double-charging...
anexprogrammer 10y ago
I first heard about these reading "The Nordic Theory of Everything", which contrasts Finland with the US, last month. It was fascinating to read as a Brit as the UK sits half way between the two in approach to many things. Significantly more useful than the bag of freebies and coupons given to new mums in the UK.
- johan_larson 10y ago
  "The Nordic Theory of Everything" is indeed a very interesting book. A view of American society from the outside looking in.
deleted 10y ago
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achikin 10y ago
I used to have the same owls on my sheets when I was a child in Russia. Fascinating to see it's international.

DanBC 10y ago

It's a great programme. You might be interested in some of the comments here, from 3 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728

pingec 10y ago

If anyone else wondered why the Finnish baby box includes condoms: http://help.finnishbabybox.com/article/9-why-do-your-baby-boxes-come-with-condoms http://help.finnishbabybox.com/article/9-why-do-your-baby-bo...

arcanus 10y ago
Well considered, if only to get folks to ask why they are included. Many do not realize how quickly some women can get pregnant again after giving birth.
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  Definitely guilty of not asking. Am currently awaiting birth of second child.
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    Forgive me if this is overly intrusive, but were you breastfeeding the child? I was under the impression that you are extremely unlikely to get pregnant whilst nursing.
    - kchoudhu 10y ago
      We were in the process of weaning the first one when the second one was conceived. I was mostly kidding about not knowing the chances; what we weren't expecting was for it to happen so quickly. Biology can be hilarious like that.
    - quadrangle 10y ago
      Not the parent poster, but I think it's as simple as "unlikely" NOT "extremely unlikely"
    - ska 10y ago
      Breastfeeding makes it less likely. Not extremely unlikely.

fao_ 10y ago

tl;dr: It's not because the cardboard boxes are significantly better than cribs and other sleeping methods, it's the fact that the box comes with almost everything a new parent needs to look after kids, which means they don't have to shell out $foo-money to be able to take care of the children properly, and aren't left worried that they left something out.

giarc 10y ago
And also because the parents need to visit a doctor to get the box.
- geon 10y ago
  That makes no sense. How does the requirement to visit a doctor imply that the babies sleep in a box? Wouldn't they sleep there if the box was given out without a visit to the doctor?
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    The doctor's visit gives the doctor an opportunity to establish a relationship and do a bit of education for the new parents.
  - chrissnell 10y ago
    You would be surprised at how many babies are born in western countries without prenatal care, simply because the mothers-to-be didn't know that it was something that was available and needed. Encouraging new moms to visit the doctor is a fantastic thing. Besides check-ups, it encourages vaccinations and can help with early identification of congenital problems.
  - djrogers 10y ago
    Pre and Post-natal care are two of the largest factors in lower infant mortality. By using the box to get Moms in to a doctor's office at least once, many difficulties can be found and overcome.
  - giarc 10y ago

tzakrajs 10y ago

That gear looks well designed.

stevekemp 10y ago
It does. I expected it to be a little cheap because most baby-stuff isn't going to be useful for very long (the babies growing so quickly), but all of it felt solid, and the designs are pretty great too.
- wmt 10y ago
  The cloth diapers are also a nice touch! We ended up using mostly cloth diapers until the baby started eating solid foods.
  - sevensor 10y ago
    We liked cloth too, but it's a lot of laundry. We switched to disposable for the last child. I think it's more economical to use cloth diapers if you can afford the extra time it takes to manage them.
- ChoHag 10y ago
  They're not used for long but while they're used they're used hard.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Actually the quality is excellent, the stuff generally lasts very long. There's not that much of an aftermarket though because everyone has one. Government gets it quite cheap at the quantities it buys; an itemized list is here: http://www.mtv.fi/lifestyle/koti/artikkeli/mita-aitiyspakkauksen-tuotteet-maksavat-katso-yksityiskohtaiset-tiedot/4817656 http://www.mtv.fi/lifestyle/koti/artikkeli/mita-aitiyspakkau... The package total was 136.78 € (about 150 $ USD) in 2015. The mother does not have to take the package, she can also opt to get the money instead. Another interesting quirk is that if you get twins, you can apply for three packages, and if you get triplets, you can apply up to six packages!

arcanus 10y ago

If only the USA had a similar program!

freyir 10y ago
We can't divert money away from the war machine.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  In Finland, the package was actually seen as a part of the war machine. The package developed from assistance baskets delivered to low-income mothers by General Mannerheim's Child Protection Society after the Finnish civil war (1918), and became a government program in 1937 by offering the package to low-income mothers. The purpose was to increase birth rate and reduce infant mortality by drawing mothers to pre-natal care with the promise of free stuff. It was expanded during the years of WW II and offered to all mothers starting 1947, at a time when the country was recovering from war and paying war reparations to USSR and everyone was really piss-poor, so poor it makes me want to cry. The country was under tremendous pressure from the Soviets and had to desperately assign all available resources to defence, food production and other essential items. Making parents feel that the government cares for them was important in the war years.
KillerRAK 10y ago
We can -- let's start with a population the size of Finland. The State of Colorado has about the same # of people -- a great place to start! Think critically before you toss out the old argument: The U.S. should do X, just like Y; where X is the socialist program of choice and Y is a Nordic Country of your choosing.
- oblio 10y ago
  Ummm... isn't the US GDP per capita higher than Finland's?
  - freyir 10y ago

jbredeche 10y ago

There's a company that sells a version of the Finnish baby box, and we got one for our kid: http://www.babyboxco.com/ http://www.babyboxco.com/ - everyone loved it. My wife is part Finnish, but we're in the US, so this was a good approximation.

spiffyman 10y ago
I have a question. Our first child is due this week, and we also got a box from babyboxco. What did/do you use as sheets for the box's pad? We noticed this week that the sheet that came with it is just a non-fitted one that fits a regular-sized crib.
- jbredeche 10y ago
  Congrats! I think we used a pack-and-play sheet, which was too big and we just rolled the edges under.

nkassis 10y ago

As a way to bring something like this to the US. I wonder if something like this could work as a similar model to Toms. Buy one give one away to a family need.

stevekemp 10y ago
There are private companies replicating the idea: * http://www.babyboxco.com/ http://www.babyboxco.com/ * http://britishbabybox.com/ http://britishbabybox.com/ * https://www.finnishbabybox.com/ https://www.finnishbabybox.com/ Seems like if you had the right marketing and the right balance of items/price it'd make a nice startup.
- a_bonobo 10y ago
  I've ordered from the third company to Australia, didn't take very long and was (and is!) extremely useful, not to say much cheaper than what I would've paid with Australian prices for most of the clothes for the first year.
- gmanis 10y ago
  I started a similar one for the Indian market but so far haven't had much success.
  - stevekemp 10y ago
    If you have a website this would be the perfect thread in which to add a link!
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  I watched the first one being A/B tested on the UES Mom's group on Facebook. I'm convinced that it is the first proto-useful thing to come out of New York's Upper East Side in the 21st century.

monkpit 10y ago

Build your own baby kit. (Just add baby)

gdelfino01 10y ago

In Venezuela the babies are being put in cardboard boxes too: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3800058/The-youngest-victims-economic-disaster-Babies-left-cardboard-boxes-cash-strapped-hospital-Venezuela-country-spirals-financial-abyss.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3800058/The-youngest...

ptaipale 10y ago
These pictures are not "shocking". The babies sleep in boxes and seem to be doing all right. If you have limited resources, you should put the money in essential things. Proper food and medication is more important than having a big fancy bed. The babies sleeping in these pictures appear to be fed and well dressed. But it is of course possible that in other respects, the Venezuelan baby care is lacking due to corruption and mismanagement. I can imagine that the level of care and attention given depends a lot on what kind of people you happen to have in each place.

riprowan 10y ago

Baby-box-industry lobbying intensifies

scraft 10y ago

I have seen this one before, but was happy to read through it again. I have zero interest in having children, but think this is a great idea and would be more than happy for my taxes to help pay for it. The thing is, if this did exist in the UK (where I live), it feels like it would be the first thing to be dropped at the next budget - feels like the only chance it would have of existing in the UK would have been if it was introduced 25+ years ago :(

desas 10y ago
You get a bag full of coupons and advertorials, perhaps a free sample like a nappy in the UK instead. "Bounty bags" are the main ones.

ChoHag 10y ago

Universal Baby Incubation will never work. Mothers will no longer buy anything for their baby because sufficient is supplied by the state.

jcoffland 10y ago

We should try giving useful items to welfare recipients instead of just money. It would be a great way to insure that the support was going to the right things. Why not give kids a back to school kit? This could be huge for kids in situations where no one will buy them the things they need for school. This happens a lot more than most people know.

d_e_solomon 10y ago
That's a pretty controversial statement. Many countries are experimenting with purely cash based welfare instead of in-kind. See: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/welfare-reform-direct-cash-poor/407236/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/wel...
patja 10y ago
The world abounds with people so full of hubris that they are firmly convicted they have the answers to others' needs and problems. Why not give kids a back to school kit? Because maybe they need food or socks or medicine more than they need a protractor or a PeeChee. If you want to help them give them money. Most people can figure out what they need for themselves.

toomanybeersies 10y ago

The BBC did a follow up article on this recently: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35834370 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35834370 Apparently spurned by the article, a few startups have appeared offering similar boxes in other countries.

Maarten88 10y ago

> it's designed to give all children in Finland, no matter what background they're from, an equal start in life So nice to read this! It's a pity that ideals like these are things from the past, completely gone in our western, capitalist culture. Words like those now mostly invoke feelings of cynicism and snarks about socialism or communism.

galonk 10y ago
Finland is a western, capitalist culture. Most western, capitalist countries have more compassionate cultures than the United States.
- Maarten88 10y ago
  Do you think that, if this program had not been invented yet, that it could be introduced now, by the current government, in Finland? I'm from the Netherlands (supposedly more compassionate), and we have something like this box. Only the program is run by a marketing data company that wants to sell your data, and box is filled with low value goodies and commercial offerings. The Finnish box is much nicer, as it seems offered with the right intensions and the content is really helpful.

vishalzone2002 10y ago

Great idea. I think in US, we can build a warby parker model for this.

xufi 10y ago
Same here, I actually read/watched a documentary about sleep that pointed they do this a lot in Scandinavian countries (such as this article). Hopefully the uS can find a solution like it

martinrame 10y ago

I feel sad for reading this, here in Argentina until December 2015 we had a similar state backed plan called Qunita. Now the new right-handed government cancelled the plan without delivering 60k boxes and a judge is trying to burn those arguing insecurity (but none of the 1000s of mothers who received them found any glitch in the boxes). Please read more (in spanish): http://www.infobae.com/politica/2016/09/14/bonadio-ordeno-destruir-60-mil-cunas-del-plan-qunita-por-inseguras/ http://www.infobae.com/politica/2016/09/14/bonadio-ordeno-de...

Faaak 10y ago
This is not constructive, but what a dickhead.
- okwhatthe2 10y ago
  When I think of a dickhead I think of someone who has a virile and penetrating mind.
polmuz 10y ago
> I feel sad for reading this, here in Argentina until December 2015 we had a similar state backed plan called Qunita. Now the new right-handed government cancelled the plan without delivering 60k boxes and a judge is trying to burn those arguing insecurity (but none of the 1000s of mothers who received them found any glitch in the boxes). How do you know that none of the mothers had a problem with them? Are there any studies about this? On the other hand there are three studies pointing that the box had problems and it was considered unsafe (sharp edges, structure fails with weights under 9kg). [0] Not to mention that one of the companies tasked to build it was just a small real estate company that thanks to that government program increased their revenue by 15.000.000% (in your face SV unicorns!!).[1] [0] http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1871615-plan-qunita-inseguros-cunas http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1871615-plan-qunita-inseguros-cun... (spanish) [1] http://www.eliminandovariables.com/2015/06/el-kindergate-y-el-gran-sueno-argentino_12.html http://www.eliminandovariables.com/2015/06/el-kindergate-y-e... (spanish)
- 10y ago

NetStrikeForce 10y ago

We had a baby a few months ago. We got so many clothes from friends and family, some of it brand new, that our baby haven't had the chance to use it all before outgrowing it. We even got the pram, cot and car seats (plural!) for free. It's crazy. Any clothing we bought was just because we liked it and not because we needed it. Seriously, I don't know how is it in northern cultures, but where I come from it is extremely common to get the clothes from your cousins (and pass them on to the next :)), regardless of your money (unless you are rich, in which case I don't know how it works :)). I'm not sure if this is a Latin thing, Southern European thing, Mediterranean thing or what :) Edit: My point being: Corruption (as mentioned by others in different countries) and the very strong family support networks in other cultures might be the reason why this doesn't exist in other European countries.

deviate_X 10y ago

Socialisms! http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/face-screaming-in-fear.png http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/face-scre...

eggy 10y ago

I like the idea of all of the goodies, but as I have mentioned in another reply, I am on my third child, and they have always slept in bed with us, so the box and mattress is still weird for me. I have even slept with one of my babies in a small bed for all three of us with no issue. We have never owned a crib or bassinet by the bedside even. I may be wrong, but I remember hearing it was during Victorian times that this became popular. I know there are people afraid of smothering or crushing their infants. Most negative studies seem to come out of the US. Other countries don't seem to have the same issues cited in US studies. I think it is common sense not to sleep with your baby in bed if you have waterbed, or tons of pillows, a soft mattress and a fluffy comforter. My wife and I don't drink alcohol either, so no possibility of being so drunk that we would be unaware of smothering our baby, and neither of us is hypermobile in bed. All mammals keep their young close. The 'co-sleeping' is a modern term that makes it sound out of the ordinary, but in fact it is very ordinary. People will say they slept better and the baby got used to being in another room, or across the room, but I can say from three babies worth of fathering, they get comfortable real quick being in bed with their parents.

zo1 10y ago
Some people are very heavy sleepers and might not notice turning over onto their infant. Additionally, the other big reason that you're not supposed to have an infant sleep in a normal bed is that they might roll off. It's fine I guess if both parents are around and "box" the infant in, but otherwise it's quite possible that the infant might toss over one too-many times and fall off the bed.
- thedudemabry 10y ago
  We've occasionally brought our little dude into bed with us when he's going nuts, but also know the potential consequences. It's not generally safe to bring a child into an adult bed and I know without my spouse being super-vigilant I might roll over onto him.
  - eggy 10y ago
    Yes, it takes two to parent in all things family! Congratulations on your little one! I didn't realize how much I would enjoy fatherhood until I became one.

pxeboot 10y ago

They do give these out at some US hospitals: http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/health/2016/07/04/alaskas-largest-maternity-center-begins-offering-free-baby-boxes-to-new-parents/ http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/health/2016/07/04/alaskas-lar...

chrissnell 10y ago

I love this, especially the inclusion of the book that helps new parents with the basics. Becoming a parent is such an overwhelming avalanche of advice (good and bad) and piles of crap. There is a massive industry dedicated to preying on the paranoia and naïveté of new parents. With that first baby, you're awash in a sea of ridiculous products like microwave baby bottle sterilizers and electric bottle heaters. By the second or third month, you come to realize just how worthless all of this junk is and you toss most of it and go back to the basics--the basics that are included in the Finnish baby box. How much easier it would have been if someone had handed us a box and a book and said, "Everything you will need for the first three months is in here."

djrogers 10y ago
Everything you've said is true, however all you've done is given the state the responsibility of deciding what part of the avalanche of advice is good and what part is bad.
- steve-benjamins 10y ago
  Which might be sensible. As OP has suggested, the state may be better than the market at this.
  - ekianjo 10y ago
    Except when its not. Not talking about Finland here, but the amount of poor decisions in many areas related to welfare would suggest that mor often than not its a pretty bad idea to trust the state.
    - deong 10y ago
      It requires the ability to govern one's selves effectively, which we in the US have proven beyond all doubt we're not capable of doing.
- SamBam 10y ago
  The state is not out to make a profit. And you forget that in Scandinavian countries, the state is generally considered to be trusted by the citizens.

marknutter 10y ago

I don't like how they correlate this cardboard box starter kit program to Finland's low infant mortality rate. The claim that the U.S. has such a high infant mortality rate compared to other industrialized nation has been thoroughly debunked[1]. [1] - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/3/editorial-the-statistics-of-life/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/3/editorial-the...

whafro 10y ago

I got two of these when our son was born a couple years back, and they were amazing. I posted a review and tons of photos: https://www.care.com/c/stories/580/a-year-with-the-finnish-maternity-box/ https://www.care.com/c/stories/580/a-year-with-the-finnish-m... Yes, we did use the box. Yes, we did use all the clothes, lotions, toys, etc. In fact, our son basically wore nothing except eurogarb for his first year. There are some commercial versions of this available in the US, though they're relatively pricey. The fact that this is a public benefit in some places is truly awesome, and something I wish could be politically tenable here in the US.

keepper 10y ago

<rant> Not directly related to the article, but reading thru the series of negative replies when a poster suggests "hey, this is a great idea, we should do it in the US", is disheartening. A great deal are so fiscally short sighted, misguided, and downright hostile, that it really takes away any hope for the "average American". HN demographic should represent some of the best of the best of the US, and well... i guess this kinda explain the rise of Trump. </rant>

titanomachy 10y ago
Maybe the US is just too big and heterogeneous for this kind of thinking. I mentally multiply the cost of the box by the 4 million babies born each year, come up with some absurdly large number, feel overwhelmed by the need to pay for so many people. Of course, the burden of that cost is shared across many people as well, but the huge number has already asserted itself in my mind; I can't help thinking what that billion dollars could buy for me and mine. I can't help thinking how different from me are some of the people receiving my hard-earned money. Never mind that those same people are providing the funding when I have my child. Finland has ~50k babies born each year. Everyone speaks the same language, has a shared cultural identity; each one of those 50k mothers could be your neighbour, your sister. There is real empathy: the thought of depriving one of those mothers is painful. I don't know what the solution is. Smaller, more culturally homogeneous states? I hope not. I like living amid diversity. Maybe we can build a cultural identity that sees fellow citizens as kin instead of just greedy, grabbing hands. Or maybe I should just move to Finland.
- serge2k 10y ago
  > I don't know what the solution is. Not being greedy and selfish and complaining because other people got something. That would help at least.
  - v64 10y ago
    The problem is, where do you draw the line?
- 10y ago

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penaman56 10y ago

I've heard that Finns even have another box as a 'paternity package', which complements the content of the maternity package. But I guess that is not state sponsored: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/

penaman56 10y ago

I've heard that Finns even have another box for dads as 'paternity package' which complements the content of maternity package. But that is probably not state sponsored: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BCj-EgjHrhs/

dancek 10y ago

You actually have the choice between the box or 140 euros, but not many people take the money. We did, once. If you have twins, you're allowed three boxes---if triplets, six. We had twins so we opted for two boxes and the money.

oftenwrong 10y ago

Last time I came across an article about this, I found out that there is a company that sells a version of the "Finnish baby box". https://finnishbabybox.com/ https://finnishbabybox.com/

Havoc 10y ago
Wouldn't be surprised if the Finnish gov could make some decent money by selling the real deal (at market rate).

Animats 10y ago

France goes way beyond that.[1] [1] http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92116914 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9211691...

_ph_ 10y ago

As millions of cats have shown, there is no better place to sleep than a cardbord box :) Joking aside, this looks like a fantastical practical approach to social support. No complex and very expensive program, just a very practical "starter set" for parents. It relieves both a possible financial burden and of course makes sure, that nothing immediately important item isn't present at a time when parents probably think about a lot of things but not shopping.