11 ms·

Australian traffic button pushes beautiful design

124 points by oska 10y ago

nikatwork 10y ago
These buttons are horrible from a UX perspective. The old design had a light that would activate after you pressed to acknowledge your request. Many of these new ones don't, so pedestrians will stand there mashing over and over as there's no feedback. Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion. Oh and people are so Pavlovian trained to start walking at the "cross" sound that when you have these buttons side by side at an intersection people will literally start walking into traffic when the adjacent button triggers. The design is pants on head idiotic.
- vtaeed 10y ago
  Until you try all the rest.
  - nikatwork 10y ago
    I have tried traffic buttons in many different countries (there's a sentence I never thought I'd type) and none have made me as egregiously furious as the Australian ones. They're an abomination on the level of CSS and the iTunes interface.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - jsmeaton 10y ago
      Furious at traffic light buttons? Why?
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    I've not tried all of them, but I don't think the UK ones are too bad, and they seem pretty basic to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light#British_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light#British_standard In addition to the lights mentioned in the Wikipedia article above, there is often a sound played when it's safe to cross, and there's a device at the bottom of the traffic light controls that allows you to feel when it's safe to cross. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881 Are the systems from other countries much different (better or worse)?
    - bmsleight_ 10y ago
      The British (actually England, Wales and Northern Island) have the design covered by law (TSRGD 2016). Scotland have minor change in the regulations. The sounder (aka bleeper) and device (aka tactile) are for visually impaired pedestrians. In Scotland, you can also have a voice telling you the vehicles has a red (e.g. Vehicles heading North on Main Street have been given a red signal). Systems in other counties have advantages and disadvantages (IMHO), lack of a clear standard compared to background noise. Too complex, so problems in maintenance. However some difference in sounds give a better indication to pedestrians on the start/middle/end of crossing time. There is also Countdown - http://content.tfl.gov.uk/PCaTS-Note-2-Overview-Presentation.pdf http://content.tfl.gov.uk/PCaTS-Note-2-Overview-Presentation...
    - madeofpalk 10y ago
      I dislike the ones that are used in at least LA. The buttons don't have much haptic feedback to them, plus they shout "WAIT!" at you if you press it.
    - stevetrewick 10y ago
      The current trend in the UK is towards removing the green/red signal from the opposite pole and sticking them on the switch box. This is supposed to help people like me who have a severe visual impairment. Unfortunately, whoever came up with this idea allowed their good intentions to override a bunch of other design problems, viz: 1) They used a light with basically the same brightness as they were using for the poles on the opposite side of the road and stuck it at head height. Thanks, now that's all I can see at night. Many people with a VI suffer some form of photophobia, so this is not helpful. 2) It completely disregards decades of unconscious habit/muscle memory formation. We are trained pretty much from birth to look across the road for a visual signal while waiting to cross and it's not there anymore because the new signalling method was used as a substitute instead of a complement. 3) The ergonomics of standing looking sideways at a box which blocks your view of the traffic vs standing facing the road being able to scan traffic in both directions and the signal. 4) Since there are no signals on the opposite pole and most complex crossings have no audible signal, there is no longer any way for pedestrians to know that the state of the system has changed or is about to change once they have stepped into the road. 5) With RE to point 3, it is universal that the new boxes are mounted at 90 degrees to the kerb. This means they are facing oncoming traffic (albeit usually on the opposite side of the road). This means they are in driver's eyeline. What happens when a zombie driver sees a light in their eyeline change from red to green? Three times in the last year I have nearly been run down outside my flat due to this particularly stupid human factors error. 6) For extra stupid, newer installs come with a pedestrian detecting PIR sensor mounted on the top of the pole. Not - as one might imagine - to detect a pedestrian and automatically trigger a request but to detect if a pedestrian has pushed the button and then walked away. These are universally either so badly installed or so poorly designed in the first place that the false positive rate is insane. There is no audible or tactile indication that the system has cancelled your request because you're not standing in the particular 30 cm spot its PIR can see. So the UK gets A for effort but F for implementation. Edit : rogue punctuation.
- fungi 10y ago
  >The old design had a light in vic many have a red light to appease feeble primate minds. > so pedestrians will stand there mashing over that's because the faster you pad mash it the quicker the lights change :D > the smaller metal lozenge at the top if you push and hold it really hard you can cause the start of the crossing sound be a loud squelch
- cyphar 10y ago
  > The old design had a light that would activate after you pressed to acknowledge your request. In Victoria the buttons have a light. They also have proximity activation (wave your hand in front of the light) and make a loud noise when you activate it. > Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion. It's for people who have issues being able to see the far side of the road (to see if the light is on). They can put their finger on the lozenge to tell if it's safe to cross. It's the same idea as European crossing buttons. IMO the German crossing buttons make the least sense to me -- they have something that looks like a switch but actually just vibrates (for the same reason as the Australian ones vibrate).
  - joshschreuder 10y ago
    Wait, proximity activation? I've lived here my whole life and never known this. Going to have to try it out tomorrow.
    - cyphar 10y ago
      I visited Melbourne a few months ago, and there were quite a few of these near the CBD (though not all of them, which might explain why you haven't seen them). They look like a regular crossing button, but the button part is painted black and has a red V made from LEDs (IIRC).
- stephenr 10y ago
  > Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing. I vaguely remember reading/hearing somewhere that it's a disability aid - I believe it vibrates or something similar when the walk signal is lit.
- Sir_Substance 10y ago
  >Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion. If you'd ever touched one of these (or read the article properly), you'd know it provides a tactile mirror to the sound the button is playing, telling deaf people when to cross. If I'm listening to music I often stick my thumb over it even though I'm not deaf, so I don't have to keep looking at the light to see when I can cross. The top of the button case is just the right size to rest your palm on it and allow your thumb to drop down and rest on the popper plate.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > telling deaf people when to cross. Not blind people? In the UK the boxes have a spinner underneath. (So please never stick your gum under the box) and the spinner is for blind people who can't see the lights. Not all lights have sounders on.
    - Sir_Substance 10y ago
      Blind people can hear the sound it makes.
      - stevetrewick 10y ago
        They don't all (in the UK) make a sound. In particular, crossings where there are multiple light controlled traffic streams near to each other will have no audible signal to prevent the problem - mentioned up thread - of zombie pedestrians (like me) walking into moving traffic at the prompting of an adjacent crossing signal. Crossings in residential areas will either not have an audible signal or will have an audible signal only between certain hours. The one outside my flat for example stops bleeping at 8PM and doesn't resume until 6AM. Source : when you are initially registered blind in the UK a rehab officer comes round and explains all the workings, including the largely unknown spinner on the underside of the switch box. And yes, please don't stick gum there.
        Sir_Substance 10y ago
- vacri 10y ago
  It's hard to take your criticisms seriously when you are clueless as to what the 'metal lozenge' is for. Have you never even been so curious as to touch it? Far from 'pants on head idiotic', rather it's 'decent design that could be a bit better'.
  - nikatwork 10y ago
    > Have you never even been so curious as to touch it? The correct design is to create it such that it serves the unsighted without enticing the sighted to mistake it for a button and touch it for a function it does not perform.
    - 6nf 10y ago
      I touched it and discovered that it gives tactile feedback for the deaf. Seems like the correct design to me.
      - nikatwork 10y ago
        As another commenter pointed out they could have made that surface not look like a button, then you would not have to discover that UX function, which is superior design. Good design is intuitive.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- whatusername 10y ago
  The metal lozenge does multiple things. It gives you a tactile sense of when its safe to cross. More importantly -- it gives a direction to a blind person. The sound can tell you it's safe to cross - but not which way. That license is aligned with the direction to walk
  - x1798DE 10y ago
    Why not use a recessed surface to cleanly distinguish it from a button?
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  I've actually never seen any of the complaints you talk about. I've never seen the buttons with a light in it - maybe NSW just never used them? The "smaller metal lozenge" vibrates for the blind (and headphone wearing), plus provides direction. I've never seen people use it in confusion.
kalleboo 10y ago
These are the standard crosswalk buttons in Sweden. http://www.prismatibro.se/en/prisma-daps-2000-eng/ http://www.prismatibro.se/en/prisma-daps-2000-eng/ The whole front is push sensitive, the lights are circular so they can be seen from the sides as well, and the side has a relief map of the crosswalk for the blind. I didn't realize even these things have NFC in them these days
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ptaipale 10y ago
  We have those in Finland as well, and I hate the lack of feedback when touching it. The sound seems to be faulty or disabled in many of them. If the light happens to be broken, there is no telling whether it registers anything. I end up banging it and then kicking it just in case a harder push is needed.
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  Same in Austria. They also have a button on the bottom.
- bckygldstn 10y ago
  After a year living in Sweden I still find myself pushing the raised LED light, which isn't pushable. Instead you have to push the manufacturer's logo painted flush on the front face. The crosswalk maps are neat though.
woolly 10y ago
I love the big chunky button on these things, but I have a few implementation niggles that someone might be able to shed light on. My main gripe is that the buttons aren't symmetrical with their partner button pairs on the other side of the traffic flow. If I'm approaching the junction and there's someone on the other side of the traffic waiting to cross already, the green man on my side should also activate when the lights change. Means I end up having to do this jaunty quick-step fencing lunge to stab at the button if I see the lights changing, which I usually just miss out on then have to wait to cross.
- partomniscient 10y ago
  Or the annoying behaviour that there's no 'automatic mode' in peak hour, where there's a whole bunch of pedestrians waiting to cross on both sides every phase and everyone else assumes someone else has pushed the button, then the lights change and there's no green man...
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    Why do you need a green man to cross when you have a green traffic light?
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Different places have different practices and different legislation. In some places, walking at a red light is forbidden and there could even be a fine. In some others, your red man indicates that even if there is a green light for some vehicles (going straight ahead), there might also be a green arrow light that tells turning vehicles have right of way. The green man tells you that you can go.
      - Dylan16807 10y ago
        It's easy enough to see if there's a green arrow. Is that the actual problem? Or is every other signal identical to the situation where you're supposed to cross, except for the one on the crosswalk itself?
oska 10y ago
See also: https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestrian-button-26232 https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestri...
camillomiller 10y ago
Do these buttons really work? Like, all the time? At some street crossings here in Berlin I get the impression that they're just some placebo to limit your impatience and make you less prone to cross with a red light. That's probably because the buttons here don't have any tactile feedback. They're touch sensitive and won't make any clic and the light is just a rare occurrence you might find in some of them (and it's completely invisible during the day, if it's there). You really feel like you don't have any way to know if they're even connected to the streetlight system. Every time I touch them I always try to see whether they're making the light turn green faster and I never ever have that feeling. One should probably approach the thing more scientifically in order to have some sort of closure about them.
- ino 10y ago
  There's a button below the casing, try it next time. Some rare lights stay red forever if you don't activate the thing. As for the others I also think they are placebo.
  - runarberg 10y ago
    > Some rare lights stay red forever if you don't activate the thing. This is the most annoying thing about pedestrian lights here in Reykjavík. Reykjavík has all kinds of button behavior. Some actually stop traffic almost immediately. Others look identical, and don't actually do anything (except trigger a soft sound and a vibration when the light goes green). Then there are others that are hybrid of the two and let you wait for the surrounding traffic lights before turning green. This wait is seemingly random and can be up to two minutes. This is a terrible user experience. There is no way of telling how (or whether) a light behaves after you press the button. People are Pavlovian and gradually learn not to press the buttons from the placebo once, and then transfer that behavior to the hybrid ones, and won't cross until someone from the other side finally presses the button.
- drinchev 10y ago
  Here ( in Berlin ) some of the pseudo-buttons are actually made for the blind. They have the same shape as the working ones but do nothing. One time I saw on one of these buttons, the yellow circle with the three black dots [1], which is the identifier for blind people. 1 : http://digitalcosmonaut.com/2013/berlin-traffic-lights-youre-using-wrong/ http://digitalcosmonaut.com/2013/berlin-traffic-lights-youre...
lucaspiller 10y ago
The same are used in Ireland. Does anyone know why they choose to use these, as opposed to the same as the UK? http://todayilearned.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/crossing-push-button.jpg http://todayilearned.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/crossi... These not only give feedback when the button is pressed, but also have a tactile spinner on the bottom for blind people (most, but not all, pedestrian crossings in the UK beep when you can cross however).
- vacri 10y ago
  There's tactile feedback for the blind on these buttons. I'm not sure I'd class the button you linked as particularly good - most people know what to look for with traffic crossing buttons, and duplicating the lesson on every (quite small) button seems a bit pointless... and useless if you don't read English (eg tourists etc). It's overall too complex for a simple function. Using a white light for 'WAIT' is also a wasted opportunity (should be a regular 'warning' colour instead). I don't really use either mechanism, but I would guess that the ticker in the linked article (the metal bit in the middle of the arrow gives a strong click) would be preferable to touching something underneath a city-dwelling box, where muck, gunk, and whatever accumulates. That's an edge-case complaint, though. Another thing to consider with these kinds of things is reliability, maintenance, and cost. May not interest the UX people, but will definitely interest the local councils...
  - stuaxo 10y ago
    The newer ones look like this - the indicator with the red or green man is usually positioned so that you will be looking at oncoming traffic - https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02209%2Fcrossing_2209318b.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuknews%2Froad-and-rail-transport%2F9241663%2FNew-inquiry-into-Puffin-pedestrian-crossings-amid-safety-fears.html&docid=J31kEmkjr52E0M&tbnid=9kbk4fPZsTpRRM%3A&w=620&h=387&client=ubuntu&bih=659&biw=1376&ved=0ahUKEwifkdm79YTPAhUIL8AKHU4YB_4QMwgfKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8 https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegr...
- nicky0 10y ago
bitwize 10y ago
These things are so much more satisfying to mash than their American counterparts -- often, a tiny little nubbin that's very hard to push (and may become completely frozen in winter, meaning you are thoroughly hosed). Deployment of alternative switches (a convex masher, a touch-sensitive dingus which vibrates slightly when it detects your press) has been uneven at best here.
- kevindong 10y ago
  To be fair, not _all_ American models are like that. In fact, a decent portion of the buttons in my town are very similar to the one described in the article. But, then again, I live on a college campus which has higher standards for accessibility than most areas in the US.
  - bitwize 10y ago
    Hence my comment about mixed deployment of alternative switches.
wruza 10y ago
So many complaints about placebo-or-not buttons in comments. Feels like from countries that have no such dead simple thing as digital countdowns on traffic lights. You see infinity or --, you push the button. Google: traffic light countdown timer.
softgrow 10y ago
When I see one of these I reminded of Jan Gehl saying they are for reminding people who walk that they must keep asking permission to cross the road (cartoons at http://reviewanew.com/2014/11/17/the-cartoon-case-for-walkability/ http://reviewanew.com/2014/11/17/the-cartoon-case-for-walkab... ). They might be attractive to some, but you soon tire of them. In the last five years the design has changed to remove the red light just above the button to acknowledge your request has been received, so now if it isn't working you'll never know. As Jan Gehl keeps saying to governments who invite him over here, you need to remove the buttons but that seems to fall on deaf ears. However we've been able to detect people who drive and even those on bicycles now with ease. Sigh.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  people who walk that they must keep asking permission to cross the road Driving and walking are wildly disparate modes of transportation, and having them coexist in adjacent physical space and intersect each other inevitably requires some set of rules describing who will have priority and when. Many intersections in cities simply have a fixed repetitive cycle of granting priority to different modes in different directions each in turn automatically. Those which require explicit "requesting" of priority typically occur when traffic of a given mode or in a given direction is light enough, compared to other modes/directions, that the overall highest throughput occurs from explicit request. It's also not incredibly burdensome to use a button for this in the case of the pedestrian; detection mechanisms for motorized vehicles/bicycles on the road are there because a button would be unwieldy for those vehicles, not because designers of intersections want to force pedestrians into some type of ultra-lowest-class group. Indeed, the "high class" (in your view) automatic detection is often unreliable and leads to a far more conscious feeling of having to work to obtain priority, as vehicles shift forward and back hunting for the magic spot that will trigger the detector. And honestly, the number of buttons which are non-functional but simply exist to provide a placebo feeling of speeding up an otherwise fixed pattern in which everyone gets priority in turn makes it kind of a silly argument anyway.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > and having them coexist in adjacent physical space and intersect each other inevitably requires some set of rules describing who will have priority and when. Zebra crossings (where pedestrians get right of way unless it's dangerous for vehicles to stop) seem to work pretty well.
notzorbo3 10y ago
There are some places in the Netherlands that have great pedestrian/bike traffic buttons. - They have distinct ticking sounds for: locating them (slow tick), when the button has been succesfully pressed (slightly faster tick), when you can walk (very fast tick) , when the traffic light will turn red soon (intermittent fast tick) so you know to hurry up and then back to the normal slow tick. - They have a ring of leds around the button that lights up when you've pressed it and then counts down by turning of the leds one by one to when the light is gonna turn green. - The ticking can be felt through the entire pole - Often there are two traffic lights on it. One big one above and a smaller one at eye-level. Here's a button that shows the wait-indicator ring: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Traffic_light_switch_0823.JPG/220px-Traffic_light_switch_0823.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Tr... They're not available everywhere unfortunately.
- pjc50 10y ago
  When we were in Sweden, they had similar ticking buttons that had temporarily been reprogrammed for Eurovision. So the ticking was now the metronome for a gentle monophonic synth version of either "Euphoria" or "Heroes" (Swedish Eurovision entries)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- amelius 10y ago
  Nice, but imho that indicator ring could have been a little bigger. I can imagine that if there are a handful of bicyclists waiting, they all can't see the button, especially if one of them is leaning on the pole.
- jonshariat 10y ago
  I wrote a post a while back about how count down timers on pedestrian walkways can have unintended consequences. http://www.tragicdesign.com/blog/bad-design/tell-me-when-to-go-bad-ux.html http://www.tragicdesign.com/blog/bad-design/tell-me-when-to-... Cars can spot them as they drive and try to run yellows more often.
anotheryou 10y ago
I don't like the doubled arrow and the separate button. In germany things are worse though: sometimes no feedback at all, feels like a hard cover plastic without any feedback at all. It seems to register touch (some do have a "please wait" lighting up when you touch it). For the blind there is a nub hidden underneath. It has an embossed arrow on it and because of its horizontal orientation it can point precisely to the right direction. It vibrates when it's safe to cross. However this is the place that stays wet the longest after rain and where people smear their chewing gum and the cleaning personal doesn't even see it. I still enjoy the buttons, so I don'- have to focus on the lights all the time. edit: when you don't know about the nub for the blind, there is no arrow indication at all. When standing on an isle in the middle of a street and there are two buttons on one pole opposed to each other, I never knew which to press: the one facing where I want to go, or the one facing me while I face where I want to go (I think it's the latter)
- alirazaq 10y ago
  There is no feedback because those are not crosswalk buttons; they are for the blind.
  - anotheryou 10y ago
    nope, there are definitely some that serve as buttons and are touchable, but not pushable edit: "please touch" it says: https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12120429_1104550972929918_601855274_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTIyNjE0ODk4NTMzNzI5NjE1MA%3D%3D.2 https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.0... all kind of weird versions: http://www.rtb-bl.de/RTB/lza-zusatzausstattung/taster/funktionsvarianten/ http://www.rtb-bl.de/RTB/lza-zusatzausstattung/taster/funkti...
- foxylion 10y ago
  And then there are is a new version of the "bad feedback" button in Germany. It has a "please wait" light but it will only activate a few seconds after touching the button. So anyone touching the button softly thinks it didn't work and touches harder (some hit it with huge force). Unfortunately the first touch would be enough, but who would expect that a touch takes a few seconds until it's converted into a visible feedback for the user... I don't get it how something like this can get through an user acceptance test.
bbcbasic 10y ago
The new countdown crossings in Martin Place are brutal. If it hits zero you'd better be across or you're roadkill.
upofadown 10y ago
>In some Australian cities, in the central business district, the traffic light push buttons don't work at certain times — for example, 7 am to 7 pm, Monday to Wednesday, and 7 am to 9 pm, Thursday to Saturday. >The rationale is that between these busy hours, the road traffic is relatively constant, and also, the pedestrian crossings are in continuous use. That strikes me as a bit stupid. The slight increase in capacity is really only needed at peak times. They could just do away with the buttons entirely.
- phire 10y ago
  The traffic lights are optimised for throughput during peak times and optimised for travel time during non-peak times. Throughput optimisation has the lights cycling at a constant rate, 60 seconds in one direction, 60 seconds in the next direction and so on. It's easy to tack the pedestrian cycle on to that (pedestrians walk in parallel with the traffic, though I've also seen lights which give the pedestrians their own cycle, and pedestrians can also walk diagonally across the intersection). The cycle might also be synchronized with other lights. The Travel time optimisation for off-peak is completely different. Lights are always stuck onto a single direction (the direction with the most traffic). When a car triggers the sensor in the perpendicular direction, the traffic light quickly cycles and gives them a green light within 10 seconds. The green light only lasts about 5 seconds, barely enough time for a second car to get through the light. It's impossible to get a third though. But in typical night time traffic, this mode makes the traffic light only slightly slower than a stop sign. Even if a pedestrian did arrive at the traffic light at the same time as a car, there is nowhere near enough time for the pedestrian to get across the road. You can't even run across the road in the allocated time. The button is needed for two reasons. 1) to signal that a pedestrian is waiting. 2) to request the longer cycle that has enough time for a pedestrian to walk across the road.
  - userbinator 10y ago
    Lights are always stuck onto a single direction (the direction with the most traffic). When a car triggers the sensor in the perpendicular direction, the traffic light quickly cycles and gives them a green light within 10 seconds. The green light only lasts about 5 seconds, barely enough time for a second car to get through the light. It's impossible to get a third though. Wouldn't it be better for the light to stay at the last direction a car traveled through? In my experience, traffic tends to be quite "bursty" (although that could be because of upstream lights causing that) so it seems a slightly different strategy could work better: as long as there are no cars in the other direction, the light stays green. If there are, the light will change immediately if the current direction has no cars; otherwise a timer is started and forces the direction to change when it expires. This seems to incorporate both optimisations you describe.
ajdlinux 10y ago
As an Australian, whenever I travel overseas I get subtly confused by the lack of audible and touch feedback on pedestrian buttons in many places. I'm not disabled and I still find the aural and tactile elements of an Australian pedestrian button to be a key part of my road crossing experience :)
- cylinder 10y ago
  When I visit Australia I am always charmed by the iconic crosswalk sound. There are a couple of crosswalks in Manhattan that have this sound and PB5. They're around 23rd st & Broadway next to Madison Square Park apparently due to a school for the blind nearby.
- jccalhoun 10y ago
  In the last couple towns I've lived in here in the USA the newer buttons will play a "wait" audio clip when you push them.
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cm3 10y ago
What's the difference between the arrow button and the concave button?
vegabook 10y ago
we've lost the meaning of the word when we describe this banal traffic button as "beautiful". In my opinion, if anything, the photo, and indeed the entire article web page, is quite ugly.
eCa 10y ago
Around here they look like this[1]. They have about the same sound as the Australian. The entire thing vibrates with the sound. The blue area on the front is the button (not just the small circle). When pushed the light lights up[2]. On top is a tactile arrow pointing in the direction to walk. On the side is a tactile map showing how the intersection looks (starting from the bottom, at the small arrow): Blocks are lanes/cars, the almost-ellipse is a traffic island and horizontal bars are the sidewalk. [1] https://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/6-2/770231/images/2011/trafikljus_175212100.jpg https://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/6-2/770231/images/2011/trafikljus_... [2] But people are happy to push the button again anyway.
- megablast 10y ago
  Wow, that is confusing.
  - eCa 10y ago
    No one I have mentioned the map to knew about it before. It's kind of like progressive enhancement; if you need it it's there, otherwise it's unobtrusive. Just push the button.
  - userbinator 10y ago
    I agree. I thought the yellow light at the bottom is the button, because it's the only button-like object in the picture (and I've plenty of experience with buttons that light up when pushed.) The "blue area" does not look like a button at all, but only a sign to me. If I encountered one of these I'd probably keep trying to press the light...
ourmandave 10y ago
There's a light on a main road near my house that has a one minute cycle. It only changes for cross traffic if someone trips it, but still does a 15 sec countdown on the crosswalk every time. I've lost count of the cars that speed up to beat the countdown timer. It is useful for my 5 AM commute though, when there's not a soul around, and I have to turn left. If I come to it and the timer hasn't started I'll do a right-on-red and then u-turn on the main road.
clarry 10y ago
Rather than a "beautiful" button, I'd rather have no buttons and no need to press anything.
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nxzero 10y ago
Vechicals don't need to push a button to cross an intersection, why do walkers need to push a button to cross an intersection?
- phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
  Because some intersections are programmed to maximize vehicle traffic throughput, and only allow pedestrian crossing in response to pushing the button.
- detaro 10y ago
  Intersections where cars have to pass detectors (induction coils in the ground) to get a green light exist. Same principle: only switch the lights if there is demand for it, with a default oriented at the most likely demand. The pedestrian-default at least around here is implemented by making entire zones slow-driving and pedestrian-priority, not on single intersections. If cars are allowed higher speeds, it IMHO makes sense to have pedestrians push the button and wait a few seconds, since they can do that easier and more efficient.
- scbrg 10y ago
  I'm sure there's many answers, but one would be that it's hard to determine a pedestrian's intent to cross. A vehicle at an intersection, in the right lane - yep, you can be fairly sure its intent is to cross. A pedestrian hanging around one end of a zebra crossing can be waiting for a green light, grabbing a smoke, chatting to a friend or playing Pokémon Go for all you know. There's no good way of automatically knowing that they intend to cross.
- bonoboTP 10y ago
  It's often better for pedestrians when there's a button. Because the light usually changes pretty quickly after pressing the button. Otherwise you'd have to wait until the timer switches the lights. It's usually used for pedestrian crossings where pedestrians are rather rare.
  - nxzero 10y ago
    Placebo Walk Buttons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button#Walk_buttons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button#Walk_buttons (My point is that just like for cars, there should be sensors for walkers, not buttons.)
trancode 10y ago
Hey, buzzard, are you cloth-eared? Come on, look at hotchas here http://u.to/jOg3Dw http://u.to/jOg3Dw
- cvburgess 10y ago
  This is a spam link to a NSFW site - do not click.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Yeah, looking at https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments someone is really going for it at the moment with multiple accounts posting spam links. (need showdead on, they are rapidly being flagged dead)
    - sctb 10y ago
      Thanks, we've banned those accounts and IPs and have tweaked the software to hopefully catch them quicker.
muzster 10y ago
I prefer the beauty of the secret british pedestrian button. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881
cyberferret 10y ago
My main love for these buttons is the fact that I can trigger them with my elbow or hip whenever my hands a full with shopping bags etc. I like the mushy way they depress then seemingly inflate back into place...
dghughes 10y ago
Looking for more info on the sound I found this and had to laugh: https://youtu.be/8UxT_UI4_6g?t=133 https://youtu.be/8UxT_UI4_6g?t=133

124 points by oska 10y ago

These buttons are horrible from a UX perspective. The old design had a light that would activate after you pressed to acknowledge your request. Many of these new ones don't, so pedestrians will stand there mashing over and over as there's no feedback. Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion. Oh and people are so Pavlovian trained to start walking at the "cross" sound that when you have these buttons side by side at an intersection people will literally start walking into traffic when the adjacent button triggers. The design is pants on head idiotic.

vtaeed 10y ago
Until you try all the rest.
- nikatwork 10y ago
  I have tried traffic buttons in many different countries (there's a sentence I never thought I'd type) and none have made me as egregiously furious as the Australian ones. They're an abomination on the level of CSS and the iTunes interface.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - jsmeaton 10y ago
    Furious at traffic light buttons? Why?
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  I've not tried all of them, but I don't think the UK ones are too bad, and they seem pretty basic to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light#British_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light#British_standard In addition to the lights mentioned in the Wikipedia article above, there is often a sound played when it's safe to cross, and there's a device at the bottom of the traffic light controls that allows you to feel when it's safe to cross. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881 Are the systems from other countries much different (better or worse)?
  - bmsleight_ 10y ago
    The British (actually England, Wales and Northern Island) have the design covered by law (TSRGD 2016). Scotland have minor change in the regulations. The sounder (aka bleeper) and device (aka tactile) are for visually impaired pedestrians. In Scotland, you can also have a voice telling you the vehicles has a red (e.g. Vehicles heading North on Main Street have been given a red signal). Systems in other counties have advantages and disadvantages (IMHO), lack of a clear standard compared to background noise. Too complex, so problems in maintenance. However some difference in sounds give a better indication to pedestrians on the start/middle/end of crossing time. There is also Countdown - http://content.tfl.gov.uk/PCaTS-Note-2-Overview-Presentation.pdf http://content.tfl.gov.uk/PCaTS-Note-2-Overview-Presentation...
  - madeofpalk 10y ago
    I dislike the ones that are used in at least LA. The buttons don't have much haptic feedback to them, plus they shout "WAIT!" at you if you press it.
  - stevetrewick 10y ago
    The current trend in the UK is towards removing the green/red signal from the opposite pole and sticking them on the switch box. This is supposed to help people like me who have a severe visual impairment. Unfortunately, whoever came up with this idea allowed their good intentions to override a bunch of other design problems, viz: 1) They used a light with basically the same brightness as they were using for the poles on the opposite side of the road and stuck it at head height. Thanks, now that's all I can see at night. Many people with a VI suffer some form of photophobia, so this is not helpful. 2) It completely disregards decades of unconscious habit/muscle memory formation. We are trained pretty much from birth to look across the road for a visual signal while waiting to cross and it's not there anymore because the new signalling method was used as a substitute instead of a complement. 3) The ergonomics of standing looking sideways at a box which blocks your view of the traffic vs standing facing the road being able to scan traffic in both directions and the signal. 4) Since there are no signals on the opposite pole and most complex crossings have no audible signal, there is no longer any way for pedestrians to know that the state of the system has changed or is about to change once they have stepped into the road. 5) With RE to point 3, it is universal that the new boxes are mounted at 90 degrees to the kerb. This means they are facing oncoming traffic (albeit usually on the opposite side of the road). This means they are in driver's eyeline. What happens when a zombie driver sees a light in their eyeline change from red to green? Three times in the last year I have nearly been run down outside my flat due to this particularly stupid human factors error. 6) For extra stupid, newer installs come with a pedestrian detecting PIR sensor mounted on the top of the pole. Not - as one might imagine - to detect a pedestrian and automatically trigger a request but to detect if a pedestrian has pushed the button and then walked away. These are universally either so badly installed or so poorly designed in the first place that the false positive rate is insane. There is no audible or tactile indication that the system has cancelled your request because you're not standing in the particular 30 cm spot its PIR can see. So the UK gets A for effort but F for implementation. Edit : rogue punctuation.
fungi 10y ago
>The old design had a light in vic many have a red light to appease feeble primate minds. > so pedestrians will stand there mashing over that's because the faster you pad mash it the quicker the lights change :D > the smaller metal lozenge at the top if you push and hold it really hard you can cause the start of the crossing sound be a loud squelch
cyphar 10y ago
> The old design had a light that would activate after you pressed to acknowledge your request. In Victoria the buttons have a light. They also have proximity activation (wave your hand in front of the light) and make a loud noise when you activate it. > Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion. It's for people who have issues being able to see the far side of the road (to see if the light is on). They can put their finger on the lozenge to tell if it's safe to cross. It's the same idea as European crossing buttons. IMO the German crossing buttons make the least sense to me -- they have something that looks like a switch but actually just vibrates (for the same reason as the Australian ones vibrate).
- joshschreuder 10y ago
  Wait, proximity activation? I've lived here my whole life and never known this. Going to have to try it out tomorrow.
  - cyphar 10y ago
    I visited Melbourne a few months ago, and there were quite a few of these near the CBD (though not all of them, which might explain why you haven't seen them). They look like a regular crossing button, but the button part is painted black and has a red V made from LEDs (IIRC).
stephenr 10y ago
> Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing. I vaguely remember reading/hearing somewhere that it's a disability aid - I believe it vibrates or something similar when the walk signal is lit.
Sir_Substance 10y ago
>Not to mention the smaller metal lozenge at the top which looks like a button but does nothing, so people press both surfaces in confusion. If you'd ever touched one of these (or read the article properly), you'd know it provides a tactile mirror to the sound the button is playing, telling deaf people when to cross. If I'm listening to music I often stick my thumb over it even though I'm not deaf, so I don't have to keep looking at the light to see when I can cross. The top of the button case is just the right size to rest your palm on it and allow your thumb to drop down and rest on the popper plate.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > telling deaf people when to cross. Not blind people? In the UK the boxes have a spinner underneath. (So please never stick your gum under the box) and the spinner is for blind people who can't see the lights. Not all lights have sounders on.
  - Sir_Substance 10y ago
    Blind people can hear the sound it makes.
    - stevetrewick 10y ago
      They don't all (in the UK) make a sound. In particular, crossings where there are multiple light controlled traffic streams near to each other will have no audible signal to prevent the problem - mentioned up thread - of zombie pedestrians (like me) walking into moving traffic at the prompting of an adjacent crossing signal. Crossings in residential areas will either not have an audible signal or will have an audible signal only between certain hours. The one outside my flat for example stops bleeping at 8PM and doesn't resume until 6AM. Source : when you are initially registered blind in the UK a rehab officer comes round and explains all the workings, including the largely unknown spinner on the underside of the switch box. And yes, please don't stick gum there.
      - Sir_Substance 10y ago
vacri 10y ago
It's hard to take your criticisms seriously when you are clueless as to what the 'metal lozenge' is for. Have you never even been so curious as to touch it? Far from 'pants on head idiotic', rather it's 'decent design that could be a bit better'.
- nikatwork 10y ago
  > Have you never even been so curious as to touch it? The correct design is to create it such that it serves the unsighted without enticing the sighted to mistake it for a button and touch it for a function it does not perform.
  - 6nf 10y ago
    I touched it and discovered that it gives tactile feedback for the deaf. Seems like the correct design to me.
    - nikatwork 10y ago
      As another commenter pointed out they could have made that surface not look like a button, then you would not have to discover that UX function, which is superior design. Good design is intuitive.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
whatusername 10y ago
The metal lozenge does multiple things. It gives you a tactile sense of when its safe to cross. More importantly -- it gives a direction to a blind person. The sound can tell you it's safe to cross - but not which way. That license is aligned with the direction to walk
- x1798DE 10y ago
  Why not use a recessed surface to cleanly distinguish it from a button?
madeofpalk 10y ago
I've actually never seen any of the complaints you talk about. I've never seen the buttons with a light in it - maybe NSW just never used them? The "smaller metal lozenge" vibrates for the blind (and headphone wearing), plus provides direction. I've never seen people use it in confusion.

kalleboo 10y ago

These are the standard crosswalk buttons in Sweden. http://www.prismatibro.se/en/prisma-daps-2000-eng/ http://www.prismatibro.se/en/prisma-daps-2000-eng/ The whole front is push sensitive, the lights are circular so they can be seen from the sides as well, and the side has a relief map of the crosswalk for the blind. I didn't realize even these things have NFC in them these days

deleted 10y ago
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ptaipale 10y ago
We have those in Finland as well, and I hate the lack of feedback when touching it. The sound seems to be faulty or disabled in many of them. If the light happens to be broken, there is no telling whether it registers anything. I end up banging it and then kicking it just in case a harder push is needed.
the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
Same in Austria. They also have a button on the bottom.
bckygldstn 10y ago
After a year living in Sweden I still find myself pushing the raised LED light, which isn't pushable. Instead you have to push the manufacturer's logo painted flush on the front face. The crosswalk maps are neat though.

woolly 10y ago

I love the big chunky button on these things, but I have a few implementation niggles that someone might be able to shed light on. My main gripe is that the buttons aren't symmetrical with their partner button pairs on the other side of the traffic flow. If I'm approaching the junction and there's someone on the other side of the traffic waiting to cross already, the green man on my side should also activate when the lights change. Means I end up having to do this jaunty quick-step fencing lunge to stab at the button if I see the lights changing, which I usually just miss out on then have to wait to cross.

partomniscient 10y ago
Or the annoying behaviour that there's no 'automatic mode' in peak hour, where there's a whole bunch of pedestrians waiting to cross on both sides every phase and everyone else assumes someone else has pushed the button, then the lights change and there's no green man...
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  Why do you need a green man to cross when you have a green traffic light?
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Different places have different practices and different legislation. In some places, walking at a red light is forbidden and there could even be a fine. In some others, your red man indicates that even if there is a green light for some vehicles (going straight ahead), there might also be a green arrow light that tells turning vehicles have right of way. The green man tells you that you can go.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      It's easy enough to see if there's a green arrow. Is that the actual problem? Or is every other signal identical to the situation where you're supposed to cross, except for the one on the crosswalk itself?

oska 10y ago

See also: https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestrian-button-26232 https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestri...

camillomiller 10y ago

Do these buttons really work? Like, all the time? At some street crossings here in Berlin I get the impression that they're just some placebo to limit your impatience and make you less prone to cross with a red light. That's probably because the buttons here don't have any tactile feedback. They're touch sensitive and won't make any clic and the light is just a rare occurrence you might find in some of them (and it's completely invisible during the day, if it's there). You really feel like you don't have any way to know if they're even connected to the streetlight system. Every time I touch them I always try to see whether they're making the light turn green faster and I never ever have that feeling. One should probably approach the thing more scientifically in order to have some sort of closure about them.

ino 10y ago
There's a button below the casing, try it next time. Some rare lights stay red forever if you don't activate the thing. As for the others I also think they are placebo.
- runarberg 10y ago
  > Some rare lights stay red forever if you don't activate the thing. This is the most annoying thing about pedestrian lights here in Reykjavík. Reykjavík has all kinds of button behavior. Some actually stop traffic almost immediately. Others look identical, and don't actually do anything (except trigger a soft sound and a vibration when the light goes green). Then there are others that are hybrid of the two and let you wait for the surrounding traffic lights before turning green. This wait is seemingly random and can be up to two minutes. This is a terrible user experience. There is no way of telling how (or whether) a light behaves after you press the button. People are Pavlovian and gradually learn not to press the buttons from the placebo once, and then transfer that behavior to the hybrid ones, and won't cross until someone from the other side finally presses the button.
drinchev 10y ago
Here ( in Berlin ) some of the pseudo-buttons are actually made for the blind. They have the same shape as the working ones but do nothing. One time I saw on one of these buttons, the yellow circle with the three black dots [1], which is the identifier for blind people. 1 : http://digitalcosmonaut.com/2013/berlin-traffic-lights-youre-using-wrong/ http://digitalcosmonaut.com/2013/berlin-traffic-lights-youre...

lucaspiller 10y ago

The same are used in Ireland. Does anyone know why they choose to use these, as opposed to the same as the UK? http://todayilearned.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/crossing-push-button.jpg http://todayilearned.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/crossi... These not only give feedback when the button is pressed, but also have a tactile spinner on the bottom for blind people (most, but not all, pedestrian crossings in the UK beep when you can cross however).

vacri 10y ago
There's tactile feedback for the blind on these buttons. I'm not sure I'd class the button you linked as particularly good - most people know what to look for with traffic crossing buttons, and duplicating the lesson on every (quite small) button seems a bit pointless... and useless if you don't read English (eg tourists etc). It's overall too complex for a simple function. Using a white light for 'WAIT' is also a wasted opportunity (should be a regular 'warning' colour instead). I don't really use either mechanism, but I would guess that the ticker in the linked article (the metal bit in the middle of the arrow gives a strong click) would be preferable to touching something underneath a city-dwelling box, where muck, gunk, and whatever accumulates. That's an edge-case complaint, though. Another thing to consider with these kinds of things is reliability, maintenance, and cost. May not interest the UX people, but will definitely interest the local councils...
- stuaxo 10y ago
  The newer ones look like this - the indicator with the red or green man is usually positioned so that you will be looking at oncoming traffic - https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F02209%2Fcrossing_2209318b.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuknews%2Froad-and-rail-transport%2F9241663%2FNew-inquiry-into-Puffin-pedestrian-crossings-amid-safety-fears.html&docid=J31kEmkjr52E0M&tbnid=9kbk4fPZsTpRRM%3A&w=620&h=387&client=ubuntu&bih=659&biw=1376&ved=0ahUKEwifkdm79YTPAhUIL8AKHU4YB_4QMwgfKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8 https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegr...
nicky0 10y ago

bitwize 10y ago

These things are so much more satisfying to mash than their American counterparts -- often, a tiny little nubbin that's very hard to push (and may become completely frozen in winter, meaning you are thoroughly hosed). Deployment of alternative switches (a convex masher, a touch-sensitive dingus which vibrates slightly when it detects your press) has been uneven at best here.

kevindong 10y ago
To be fair, not _all_ American models are like that. In fact, a decent portion of the buttons in my town are very similar to the one described in the article. But, then again, I live on a college campus which has higher standards for accessibility than most areas in the US.
- bitwize 10y ago
  Hence my comment about mixed deployment of alternative switches.

wruza 10y ago

So many complaints about placebo-or-not buttons in comments. Feels like from countries that have no such dead simple thing as digital countdowns on traffic lights. You see infinity or --, you push the button. Google: traffic light countdown timer.

softgrow 10y ago

When I see one of these I reminded of Jan Gehl saying they are for reminding people who walk that they must keep asking permission to cross the road (cartoons at http://reviewanew.com/2014/11/17/the-cartoon-case-for-walkability/ http://reviewanew.com/2014/11/17/the-cartoon-case-for-walkab... ). They might be attractive to some, but you soon tire of them. In the last five years the design has changed to remove the red light just above the button to acknowledge your request has been received, so now if it isn't working you'll never know. As Jan Gehl keeps saying to governments who invite him over here, you need to remove the buttons but that seems to fall on deaf ears. However we've been able to detect people who drive and even those on bicycles now with ease. Sigh.

ubernostrum 10y ago
people who walk that they must keep asking permission to cross the road Driving and walking are wildly disparate modes of transportation, and having them coexist in adjacent physical space and intersect each other inevitably requires some set of rules describing who will have priority and when. Many intersections in cities simply have a fixed repetitive cycle of granting priority to different modes in different directions each in turn automatically. Those which require explicit "requesting" of priority typically occur when traffic of a given mode or in a given direction is light enough, compared to other modes/directions, that the overall highest throughput occurs from explicit request. It's also not incredibly burdensome to use a button for this in the case of the pedestrian; detection mechanisms for motorized vehicles/bicycles on the road are there because a button would be unwieldy for those vehicles, not because designers of intersections want to force pedestrians into some type of ultra-lowest-class group. Indeed, the "high class" (in your view) automatic detection is often unreliable and leads to a far more conscious feeling of having to work to obtain priority, as vehicles shift forward and back hunting for the magic spot that will trigger the detector. And honestly, the number of buttons which are non-functional but simply exist to provide a placebo feeling of speeding up an otherwise fixed pattern in which everyone gets priority in turn makes it kind of a silly argument anyway.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > and having them coexist in adjacent physical space and intersect each other inevitably requires some set of rules describing who will have priority and when. Zebra crossings (where pedestrians get right of way unless it's dangerous for vehicles to stop) seem to work pretty well.

notzorbo3 10y ago

There are some places in the Netherlands that have great pedestrian/bike traffic buttons. - They have distinct ticking sounds for: locating them (slow tick), when the button has been succesfully pressed (slightly faster tick), when you can walk (very fast tick) , when the traffic light will turn red soon (intermittent fast tick) so you know to hurry up and then back to the normal slow tick. - They have a ring of leds around the button that lights up when you've pressed it and then counts down by turning of the leds one by one to when the light is gonna turn green. - The ticking can be felt through the entire pole - Often there are two traffic lights on it. One big one above and a smaller one at eye-level. Here's a button that shows the wait-indicator ring: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Traffic_light_switch_0823.JPG/220px-Traffic_light_switch_0823.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Tr... They're not available everywhere unfortunately.

pjc50 10y ago
When we were in Sweden, they had similar ticking buttons that had temporarily been reprogrammed for Eurovision. So the ticking was now the metronome for a gentle monophonic synth version of either "Euphoria" or "Heroes" (Swedish Eurovision entries)
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amelius 10y ago
Nice, but imho that indicator ring could have been a little bigger. I can imagine that if there are a handful of bicyclists waiting, they all can't see the button, especially if one of them is leaning on the pole.
jonshariat 10y ago
I wrote a post a while back about how count down timers on pedestrian walkways can have unintended consequences. http://www.tragicdesign.com/blog/bad-design/tell-me-when-to-go-bad-ux.html http://www.tragicdesign.com/blog/bad-design/tell-me-when-to-... Cars can spot them as they drive and try to run yellows more often.

anotheryou 10y ago

I don't like the doubled arrow and the separate button. In germany things are worse though: sometimes no feedback at all, feels like a hard cover plastic without any feedback at all. It seems to register touch (some do have a "please wait" lighting up when you touch it). For the blind there is a nub hidden underneath. It has an embossed arrow on it and because of its horizontal orientation it can point precisely to the right direction. It vibrates when it's safe to cross. However this is the place that stays wet the longest after rain and where people smear their chewing gum and the cleaning personal doesn't even see it. I still enjoy the buttons, so I don'- have to focus on the lights all the time. edit: when you don't know about the nub for the blind, there is no arrow indication at all. When standing on an isle in the middle of a street and there are two buttons on one pole opposed to each other, I never knew which to press: the one facing where I want to go, or the one facing me while I face where I want to go (I think it's the latter)

alirazaq 10y ago
There is no feedback because those are not crosswalk buttons; they are for the blind.
- anotheryou 10y ago
  nope, there are definitely some that serve as buttons and are touchable, but not pushable edit: "please touch" it says: https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12120429_1104550972929918_601855274_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTIyNjE0ODk4NTMzNzI5NjE1MA%3D%3D.2 https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.0... all kind of weird versions: http://www.rtb-bl.de/RTB/lza-zusatzausstattung/taster/funktionsvarianten/ http://www.rtb-bl.de/RTB/lza-zusatzausstattung/taster/funkti...
foxylion 10y ago
And then there are is a new version of the "bad feedback" button in Germany. It has a "please wait" light but it will only activate a few seconds after touching the button. So anyone touching the button softly thinks it didn't work and touches harder (some hit it with huge force). Unfortunately the first touch would be enough, but who would expect that a touch takes a few seconds until it's converted into a visible feedback for the user... I don't get it how something like this can get through an user acceptance test.

bbcbasic 10y ago

The new countdown crossings in Martin Place are brutal. If it hits zero you'd better be across or you're roadkill.

upofadown 10y ago

>In some Australian cities, in the central business district, the traffic light push buttons don't work at certain times — for example, 7 am to 7 pm, Monday to Wednesday, and 7 am to 9 pm, Thursday to Saturday. >The rationale is that between these busy hours, the road traffic is relatively constant, and also, the pedestrian crossings are in continuous use. That strikes me as a bit stupid. The slight increase in capacity is really only needed at peak times. They could just do away with the buttons entirely.

phire 10y ago
The traffic lights are optimised for throughput during peak times and optimised for travel time during non-peak times. Throughput optimisation has the lights cycling at a constant rate, 60 seconds in one direction, 60 seconds in the next direction and so on. It's easy to tack the pedestrian cycle on to that (pedestrians walk in parallel with the traffic, though I've also seen lights which give the pedestrians their own cycle, and pedestrians can also walk diagonally across the intersection). The cycle might also be synchronized with other lights. The Travel time optimisation for off-peak is completely different. Lights are always stuck onto a single direction (the direction with the most traffic). When a car triggers the sensor in the perpendicular direction, the traffic light quickly cycles and gives them a green light within 10 seconds. The green light only lasts about 5 seconds, barely enough time for a second car to get through the light. It's impossible to get a third though. But in typical night time traffic, this mode makes the traffic light only slightly slower than a stop sign. Even if a pedestrian did arrive at the traffic light at the same time as a car, there is nowhere near enough time for the pedestrian to get across the road. You can't even run across the road in the allocated time. The button is needed for two reasons. 1) to signal that a pedestrian is waiting. 2) to request the longer cycle that has enough time for a pedestrian to walk across the road.
- userbinator 10y ago
  Lights are always stuck onto a single direction (the direction with the most traffic). When a car triggers the sensor in the perpendicular direction, the traffic light quickly cycles and gives them a green light within 10 seconds. The green light only lasts about 5 seconds, barely enough time for a second car to get through the light. It's impossible to get a third though. Wouldn't it be better for the light to stay at the last direction a car traveled through? In my experience, traffic tends to be quite "bursty" (although that could be because of upstream lights causing that) so it seems a slightly different strategy could work better: as long as there are no cars in the other direction, the light stays green. If there are, the light will change immediately if the current direction has no cars; otherwise a timer is started and forces the direction to change when it expires. This seems to incorporate both optimisations you describe.

ajdlinux 10y ago

As an Australian, whenever I travel overseas I get subtly confused by the lack of audible and touch feedback on pedestrian buttons in many places. I'm not disabled and I still find the aural and tactile elements of an Australian pedestrian button to be a key part of my road crossing experience :)

cylinder 10y ago
When I visit Australia I am always charmed by the iconic crosswalk sound. There are a couple of crosswalks in Manhattan that have this sound and PB5. They're around 23rd st & Broadway next to Madison Square Park apparently due to a school for the blind nearby.
jccalhoun 10y ago
In the last couple towns I've lived in here in the USA the newer buttons will play a "wait" audio clip when you push them.

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cm3 10y ago

What's the difference between the arrow button and the concave button?

vegabook 10y ago

we've lost the meaning of the word when we describe this banal traffic button as "beautiful". In my opinion, if anything, the photo, and indeed the entire article web page, is quite ugly.

eCa 10y ago

Around here they look like this[1]. They have about the same sound as the Australian. The entire thing vibrates with the sound. The blue area on the front is the button (not just the small circle). When pushed the light lights up[2]. On top is a tactile arrow pointing in the direction to walk. On the side is a tactile map showing how the intersection looks (starting from the bottom, at the small arrow): Blocks are lanes/cars, the almost-ellipse is a traffic island and horizontal bars are the sidewalk. [1] https://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/6-2/770231/images/2011/trafikljus_175212100.jpg https://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/6-2/770231/images/2011/trafikljus_... [2] But people are happy to push the button again anyway.

megablast 10y ago
Wow, that is confusing.
- eCa 10y ago
  No one I have mentioned the map to knew about it before. It's kind of like progressive enhancement; if you need it it's there, otherwise it's unobtrusive. Just push the button.
- userbinator 10y ago
  I agree. I thought the yellow light at the bottom is the button, because it's the only button-like object in the picture (and I've plenty of experience with buttons that light up when pushed.) The "blue area" does not look like a button at all, but only a sign to me. If I encountered one of these I'd probably keep trying to press the light...

ourmandave 10y ago

There's a light on a main road near my house that has a one minute cycle. It only changes for cross traffic if someone trips it, but still does a 15 sec countdown on the crosswalk every time. I've lost count of the cars that speed up to beat the countdown timer. It is useful for my 5 AM commute though, when there's not a soul around, and I have to turn left. If I come to it and the timer hasn't started I'll do a right-on-red and then u-turn on the main road.

clarry 10y ago

Rather than a "beautiful" button, I'd rather have no buttons and no need to press anything.

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nxzero 10y ago

Vechicals don't need to push a button to cross an intersection, why do walkers need to push a button to cross an intersection?

phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
Because some intersections are programmed to maximize vehicle traffic throughput, and only allow pedestrian crossing in response to pushing the button.
detaro 10y ago
Intersections where cars have to pass detectors (induction coils in the ground) to get a green light exist. Same principle: only switch the lights if there is demand for it, with a default oriented at the most likely demand. The pedestrian-default at least around here is implemented by making entire zones slow-driving and pedestrian-priority, not on single intersections. If cars are allowed higher speeds, it IMHO makes sense to have pedestrians push the button and wait a few seconds, since they can do that easier and more efficient.
scbrg 10y ago
I'm sure there's many answers, but one would be that it's hard to determine a pedestrian's intent to cross. A vehicle at an intersection, in the right lane - yep, you can be fairly sure its intent is to cross. A pedestrian hanging around one end of a zebra crossing can be waiting for a green light, grabbing a smoke, chatting to a friend or playing Pokémon Go for all you know. There's no good way of automatically knowing that they intend to cross.
bonoboTP 10y ago
It's often better for pedestrians when there's a button. Because the light usually changes pretty quickly after pressing the button. Otherwise you'd have to wait until the timer switches the lights. It's usually used for pedestrian crossings where pedestrians are rather rare.
- nxzero 10y ago
  Placebo Walk Buttons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button#Walk_buttons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_button#Walk_buttons (My point is that just like for cars, there should be sensors for walkers, not buttons.)

trancode 10y ago

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cvburgess 10y ago
This is a spam link to a NSFW site - do not click.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Yeah, looking at https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments someone is really going for it at the moment with multiple accounts posting spam links. (need showdead on, they are rapidly being flagged dead)
  - sctb 10y ago
    Thanks, we've banned those accounts and IPs and have tweaked the software to hopefully catch them quicker.

muzster 10y ago

I prefer the beauty of the secret british pedestrian button. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22706881

cyberferret 10y ago

My main love for these buttons is the fact that I can trigger them with my elbow or hip whenever my hands a full with shopping bags etc. I like the mushy way they depress then seemingly inflate back into place...

dghughes 10y ago

Looking for more info on the sound I found this and had to laugh: https://youtu.be/8UxT_UI4_6g?t=133 https://youtu.be/8UxT_UI4_6g?t=133