8 ms·

Apple boycotts Fox News because of Glenn Beck

137 points by olefoo 17y ago

spamizbad 17y ago
It's more accurate to say they've withdrawn advertisement due to pressure from Color of Change. Given Fox's ratings I'm sure they can fill the void with less picky companies. The network's demos don't mesh with Apple's target market anyway.
- krschultz 17y ago
  I bet a lot of people in marketing disagree with that last statement.
  - spamizbad 17y ago
    Are you one of those people in marketing? If so, straighten me out because I don't believe you!
    - stanley 17y ago
      Fox's demographic is known to be older, hence they are less experienced than younger computer users. This falls in line with Apple's general selling point for products and software that "just works". That may or may not be the correct answer, but there is a zero chance Apple was running those ads if they weren't backing out for them one way or another.
    - pak 17y ago
      There are conservative folks with plenty of expendable cash... it's not like Apple caters its products to liberals. In many ways Apple tries to position itself as a BMW or Mercedes Benz of the computer market; think of the target for those products.
      - Alex3917 17y ago
        Apple absolutely caters it's products toward liberals. Think different? 1984? The power of the imagination? Dancing hipsters with iPods?
        torial 17y ago
        Just to add to a good list -- Al Gore on the board is catering toward liberals and not conservatives!
        pak 17y ago
        The first two campaigns you mention are of a different era and no longer used. Haven't seen the third. The dancing hipsters, you'll notice, has been neutralized over the years with iPod ads focusing more on pop artist appearances, e.g Mary J. Blige (pretty mainstream). In any case it's only part of a larger range of ads; in my opinion the arrogant superiority complex of the ongoing Get a Mac campaign is directly analogous to the breathy narrator of a Lexus ad or a BMW ad proclaiming the Ultimate Driving Machine/Joy of Driving [a BMW]. The iPhone ads are 100% neutral and rather impressive in serving as simple but compelling 20-second product demos.
      - CoryMathews 17y ago
        uhh BMW and Mercedes Benz are targeted at a richer upper class. Apple markets to a "me to" younger market. They are very different IMO.
        pak 17y ago
        You're oversimplifying on both assessments.
    - borism 17y ago
      iPad is definitely a product for the Fox viewers
  - misterbwong 17y ago
    Who a company markets to and who a company sells to are sometimes two very different demographics. Toy companies market towards kids so that the kids can then turn around and market to (beg/plead/ask) their parents. Companies market to their "ideal" buyer-the one that exemplifies their image.
- steve19 17y ago
  It does not seem like a decision that was made with the best financial interests of shareholders at heart. Unless Fox tried to force them to buy a package, I do not see why they could just avoid advertising on Beck's show.
  - danudey 17y ago
    For the same reason that Apple and Google supported Proposition 8: it's the right thing to do. The 'best financial interest of shareholders' for Apple is long-term, and they believe the good will generated by doing the right thing will make the market look more favourably upon them. I know I do. It's a lack of a short-sighted, myopic view that's gotten Apple where it is today. Putting their advertising dollars into ads on another channel (or websites, etc.) instead of Fox News isn't going to cost them a significant amount of sales in the long term, but it is going to hurt Fox in the short term (well, the boycott will). Meanwhile, Apple's not worried about their profits for the next year; they've got so much cash in the bank they don't even need their employees to show up to work for the company to outlive any of us. Their iPad ads will go elsewhere, and will earn them sales, and the shareholders won't suffer at all.
    - wolfhumble 17y ago
      "For the same reason that Apple and Google supported Proposition 8: it's the right thing to do." I think it would be more correct to say: They think it is the right thing to do. I do not share their opinion. I am a buyer too and I do not look more favourably upon them because of this. (I am not talking about Fox news here; don't receive it and have barely watched it, and can't form an opinion over that.)
      - CWuestefeld 17y ago
        This is an important point, and one that it seems is too often forgotten, believe it or not. The framework of much of our political debate seems to assume a particular political direction. For example, the terminology "progressive" indicates that we're only making progress when we engage in these policies, particularly redistributive tax policies. Another example is the common usage of the term "special interests". It seems to me this is commonly used as a synonym for "corporate interests". But more realistically, everything is a special interest. That includes the education establishment and the NEA, unions, and environmentalists. Yes, businesses are a constituency of special interests, but so are those others that support the other side of the spectrum. It can't objectively be said that one side is the common interest of the people, and the others are special; they all hold equal roles in the debate.
- thomaspaine 17y ago
  The people behind Color of Change (they do a lot of other projects too) are hiring python/Django developers in the bay area by the way, full time and contract. If you forward me your info I'd be happy to send it upstream. My contact info is in my profile.
- dabent 17y ago
  "Given Fox's ratings I'm sure they can fill the void with less picky companies." Did you know that gold is at an all-time high? Gold is the standard you can rely on in troubled times! BUY GOLD NOW! Did you know that gold is at an all-time high? Your gold can get you through troubled times! GET CASH YOUR GOLD NOW! The commercials on any conservative TV or radio show are more than enough to get me to never watch.
daniel02216 17y ago
I love how they think their network's reputation is 'beginning' to change, and that it isn't already hopelessly ruined.
- nollidge 17y ago
  I wish it weren't so, but they do have a solid viewership.
delackner 17y ago
A friend in town from London reminded me that his show is actually shown outside the US, and said that British advertisers are quite understandably unhappy with his show. I've never seen it, but I can't imagine it appealing to an international audience.
- mahmud 17y ago
  I was once in a feel-good Arab-American lovefest summit where influential Arabs were being shown around NYC and DC at the behest of Karen Hughes and the Bush administration. I was in it for the free food. They bused an assortment of Iraqis back to their hotel after a day of sightseeing historic places in town. And I stuck around interpreting for one of the artists .. Long story short. The Iraqis gathered in the hotel lobby where the TV was set to Fox news and, I must say, a day's worth of diplomacy was undone with one hour of the O'Reilly Factor. I am all for freedom of expression, but Fox News is something I rather keep in the U.S. Fox can broadcast overseas as long as they supply traveling and expat Americans with Canadian-flag backpack badges. It's just embarrassing, eh.
  - chriskelley 17y ago
    I know your last comment was in jest, but as someone from the US that travels a lot, I would like to mention that I think it is really important for educated/reasonable US Citizens to engage with locals and other travelers while abroad and let people know that what they see on Fox News (et al) isn't all we have to offer! Many of my friends and colleagues here at home are some of the most wonderful, intelligent, caring people I have met anywhere on the globe, and it does them a great injustice to let people around the world judge the US based on what they see or hear on TV. It's the responsibility of those of us that travel to spread the good word of the reasonable US Citizen!
    - dhyasama 17y ago
      I couldn't agree more. I traveled to Croatia a few years ago and stayed with locals. One of the first things each of them said was some variation of "I don't like George Bush." Simply saying "I don't either" brightened them up considerably.
shrnky 17y ago
Man I hate when entertainers start getting political. BUZZ KILL!
TomOfTTB 17y ago
This is just more proof that politics makes people stupid. Boycotting the whole network does the opposite of what they want because people tend to pull together when they're being jointly attacked. So this move is more likely to make Fox stand behind Beck than it is to get them to fire him (As has been pointed out Fox News has double the viewers of it's nearest competitor so it isn't going to be lacking for advertisers) A better move would be to move all their advertising to other shows. Cause all the other ships to rise while Beck's sinks. Then the network won't feel under fire and will instead be asking "Maybe this Beck guy is more trouble than he's worth?"
- lallysingh 17y ago
  Sure, but: (1) I can't imagine Steve's a fan of Fox. (2) I think Apple may get more favor with their key demographics this way than by supporting Fox. There's a pretty liberal bias in Apple's demographics, at least from my anecdotal experience.
  - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
    Rush Limbaugh is a very outspoken (in both senses) Mac user.
    - stcredzero 17y ago
      What mean you by "in both senses?"
      - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
        He's loud and obnoxious (and often a liar), and very passionate about Apple products.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    1.You’re right but Jobs has shown that he doesn’t think it’s a good idea to mix politics and business: http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dreams http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dre... 2.I would hope not. Say what you will about Fox News it’s no worse than MSNBC on the other side. Unless you truly believe Scott Brown is a “Irresponsible, Homophobic, Racist, Reactionary, Nude Model, Teabagging, Supporter Of Violence Against Women and Against Politicians with whom He Disagrees”. Apple’s fans clearly skew liberal but I’d like to think anyone would be opposed to that kind of hypocrisy. Edit: I don't mean to be rude but I just don't have the energy to argue with political nonsense. So all those who claim MSNBC is so much better than Fox News are just being ridiculous. One's left wing and one's right wing and the only reason a person would think one is better than the other is if they subscribed to the political agenda of that station. Citing Joe Scarborough is no different than Fox citing Alan Colmes (no longer on the network but who would still have a job there if he wanted it). And it's just silly to say someone like Olbermann is better or worse than Hannity or O'Reilly.
johnwh 17y ago
I know that many Fox News Anchors use Macs on their respective shows (Fox News is on the TVs at work, do not judge me!), I wonder if Fox will react to this by pulling those computers.
- deleted 17y ago
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nlwhittemore 17y ago
Totally reasonable decision. It's one thing when you're talking just political debate and a company explicitly backing one party. But Beck has created an entirely alternate universe that feeds the insane, irrational hatred that the GOP has turned to instead of coming up with good ideas in the last year. I hope there is a major shift in the political conversation and the Republicans actually have a platform again, but Beck is a whole different ballgame for now than someone like O'Rielly even, and I wouldn't want to associate myself with him either.
- joezydeco 17y ago
  I say let Beck go on and fracture the party.
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joegaudet 17y ago
I for one am glad about this. Glenn Beck is the worst kind of person, stirring up fear for his own personal gain. This along with google's decision to leave china, have been two great examples of companies doing (at least what I perceive to be) the right thing.
- mynameishere 17y ago
  Glenn Beck is not the worst kind of person. You see? You're saying something blatantly false and everyone agrees with you. It's sad.
  - RevRal 17y ago
    I can't think of a worse kind of person. Glen Beck obviously isn't the worst in this category.
    - joegaudet 17y ago
      Well if he's not the worst, he's certainly the most outrageous. That anyone is fooled by his crying, low and high angled shots, and creepy close ups on his eyes is beyond me.
    - joe_the_user 17y ago
      He's the worst in bad category or bad in the worst category...
    - endtime 17y ago
      What about, say, Hitler? Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Beck, but I do think he compares favorably to Hitler, Stalin, et al.
      - stcredzero 17y ago
        This is an interesting variation on Godwin's. What does it mean when someone is being compared favorably to Hitler? Reminds me of a friend's quip about another friend's father: "I was surprised to learn he leans a little to the left of Mao."
Enlightenment 17y ago
Glenn Beck is one of those Crazy Mormons. His scaremongering is one of the reasons why groups like the militant christians, i.e. Hutaree, keep their membership growing.
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Neon2012 17y ago
Glenn Beck primarily speaks out against progressivism and he believes that the United States is spending itself into oblivion. I, for one, completely agree with him. If we are lucky, one day we will all be able to make ipods for China. :)
- RevRal 17y ago
  "Speaks out against progressivism. . ."? Are you saying that he's bringing to light some caustic force within our country called "progressivism?" I can imagine a lot of ignorant people mumbling and nodding their heads in agreement, with images evoked of an unearthed cancerous network which is eating the country from its foundation. A cancer which has always been here, and has been causing the degradation of everything American. And this problem must be stopped. The solution is simple: anything "progressive" must be regressed, stomped out, and turned to ash, lest we sully our stupid, hardassed, values. Puhlease. Glen Beck's message is absolutely atrocious and dangerous, and I cannot believe someone on HN would "completely" agree with him. Seriously, "progressivism?" Let's go back in time and shoot the founding fathers.
- pstuart 17y ago
  Please define how 'progressivism' equals 'spending into oblivion'. Does that include the 2 wars the U.S. has been waging for the last 7 years?
  - anamax 17y ago
    Let's make sure I understand. Someone says "X is bad". Your response is "bad person Y also did X". It's unclear how that's an argument for the goodness of X. Note that the person who said "X is bad" may have disagreed with it when Y did it. If you find X acceptable now, it's unclear why you're criticizing Y for doing it. And, FWIW, the Iraq/Afghanistan war has been cheaper than Obama's other adventures. And, for all the pre-election talk, Obama has followed the Bush timetable/plan wrt Iraq/Afganistan. Bush's errors do not justify or excuse Obama's actions. However, they do constrain them. WRT govt debt/spending, it's one thing to say "I'll start a diet tomorrow" if you're 20 pounds overweight and quite another if you're 200 pounds overweight. If you honestly think that Bush put us in a hole with spending, you can't seriously argue for digging it deeper.
CoachRufus87 17y ago
"fair & balanced" -LOL i wonder why i'm getting downvoted...we all know that each news outlet has their own angle on the way our country is going. if you don't believe that, then you sadly have your blinders on. see things for what they are folks
- RevRal 17y ago
  If what you have to say is a little trite, then why repeat it here? You even acknowledge this in saying "we all know. . . ." So. . . . I suspect you think that your comment was worthwhile, in which case I don't get it.
- jon_dahl 17y ago
  You're downvoted not because you're right or wrong, but because this is not a political discussion forum. (This whole post is borderline, but at least most people have stuck to talking about the Apple/Fox News issue, not which side is destroying the country.)
  - olefoo 17y ago
    I had some serious doubts about putting this on HN, and I'm glad to see that my worst fears weren't realized. What swung me towards posting it was the hope that someone on here would have some insight as to why Apple is following this course; unfortunately I have not seen anything solid in that regard. My own take is that to some extent, it's about social class. There may be FoxNews fans who are Mac fans as well, but Apple's brand is an aspirational one; and like BMWs or Volvos it ends up being associated with upper middle-class liberal values even though the product itself has no such bias.
hkuo 17y ago
The only reason Fox News has the numbers it has is because it is the only channel that panders to the lowest common denominator of idiots. Every other major channel has some moralistic sense, so all of the smarter people on the curve get spread out amongst them.
- cakesy 17y ago
  So the only reason Fox News is so popular is because it caters to the tastes of the majority of people? It is statements like yours that lead these sort of people to talk about liberal elite.
- CWuestefeld 17y ago
  Downvote because of your assertion that "Every other major channel has some moralistic sense". In fact, Fox is intensely moralistic. You just happen to disagree with what those morals are. Also, you imply that holding these morals indicates that one is less intelligent than those that share your morals. I'm sure this is incorrect, and it's certainly true that you haven't offered any reason to believe it.
  - roc 17y ago
    Fox markets to a certain group of intensely moralistic people. That's a very important distinction to remember. If the network were actually moralistic, it wouldn't defend, promote and directly pay so many people who talk the talk, but have been exposed as acting in stark contrast to the network's stated morals. (I'm not claiming other news networks are different in this regard.)
    - CWuestefeld 17y ago
      That's a fair clarification. But I'd claim this is turtles all the way down. The politicians that they're covering exhibit the same dichotomy of actual morals versus play acting for market share. I could go on for days with examples, but here are a few: * Apparently Republicans themselves were the first to suggest an "individual mandate" for health insurance. Yet they're opposed to it now. See discussion here (http://volokh.com/2010/03/29/was-the-individual-mandate-a-republican-idea/ http://volokh.com/2010/03/29/was-the-individual-mandate-a-re... ) for example. * Barney Frank and friends twisted the arms of mortgage lenders to get them to extend loans to people that wouldn't traditionally be considered good candidates. A few years later, he's on TV crucifying banks for doing just that.
dschobel 17y ago
Interesting, the article mentions that ads from smaller companies have been running in place of the boycotting corps, didn't a HNer get his Google TV ad run on Beck's show a week or so ago?
- dschobel 17y ago
  found it: How I Ran An Ad on Fox News via Google TV Ads http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1206394 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1206394 $1300 got them seven airings on Glen Beck reruns.
cageface 17y ago
I haven't been very happy with several of Apple's latest moves but I have to applaud them for this. It's encouraging to see that some tech companies have the guts to stand up for their values, even if it costs them real revenue.
- danudey 17y ago
  They'll move their ad dollars from Fox to some other channel and get their sales there instead. I doubt Apple has a huge market among people who only ever watch Fox.
jsz0 17y ago
As big business gets even more directly involved in politics through nearly limitless donation we need to become much more aware of which companies we choose to purchase products from. Realistically I don't expect people to totally change their buying habits but if it's a simple Coke vs. Pepsi sort of choice it's easy enough to make a difference.
quizbiz 17y ago
Is there a way to analytically test if Fox News is bringing in their target demographic? Aside from Girls Gone Wild and Comedy Central, I haven't observed matches that make really good sense. The web is such a better platform in my ignorant opinion.
Daniel_Newby 17y ago
Apple is just cultivating brand blandness. Steve Jobs aspires to be inoffensive to everyone, like Jim Davis does with Garfield the cat. If Glenn Beck had the personality equivalent of rounded corners and a shiny finish, Apple wouldn't be doing this.
brown9-2 17y ago
Here is a longer list of other companies that have joined the same campaign: http://colorofchange.org/beck/more/companies.html http://colorofchange.org/beck/more/companies.html Highlights: -AT&T -Bank of America -Best Buy -Citrix Online -Johnson & Johnson -Mercedes-Benz -Procter & Gamble -SC Johnson (makers of Ziploc, Off!, Pledge, and other products) -Sprint -Toyota-Lexus -The UPS Store -United States Postal Service -Verizon Wireless -Wal-Mart
- adolph 17y ago
  Did they pay for this brand placement, or is it as free as posting to ycombinator.news?
gjm11 17y ago
The TUAW article is just repeating a small amount of the content of this Washington Post story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/14/AR2010031402312.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03...
grannyg00se 17y ago
I saw an episode where Glenn was demonstrating how Bush increased spending when he was in power, and how Obama is increasing spending now. Both had promised that they wouldn't. Sometimes he says crazy things, but he's pretty good at pointing out some serious deficiencies in government. I've never heard him say anything even remotely racist on television. He does trash talk political figures quite heavily. He seems to be more against big government than against any minority or minorities in general. In fact, I've heard him say that the borders should be cleared up, and immigration fixed so that the government can streamline the process of letting qualified immigrants into the country. On the other hand, he did say that he believes Obama to be a racist. Sometimes I think these people say stupid things deliberately to appeal to their target audience (a la Ann Coulter). That wouldn't be so dangerous, except that their target audience is significant in number and resonates with the most idiotic of statements.
ttrashh 17y ago
Anyone else notice Carbonite is a sponsor? I'm going to move to another backup solution.
btilly 17y ago
(I can't believe that we have a Glenn Beck discussion without this comment yet.) I am not saying that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. I'm not saying that he didn't. But I'm asking why he hasn't denied it. Also see Jon Stewart's take: http://unreasonablefaith.com/2010/03/20/jon-stewart-becomes-glenn-beck/ http://unreasonablefaith.com/2010/03/20/jon-stewart-becomes-...
sdfm 17y ago
I, personally, am a news junkie and I watch almost ALL of the news networks....CNN, MSNBC (when I can stomach THEIR own brand of vitriol), ABC, FOX, CBS and CSPAN. Other than CSPAN, FOX is the only network news channel that even attempts to balance its news shows with opposite points of view. I was watching Chris Matthews last night as he interviewed two people about some stupid subject.....including Matthews all three of those guys completely agreed with each other about what they were discussing and it was, of course, the leftist viewpoint. If you turn on FOX news shows they always have someone, whether it is Juan Williams or Mara Liasson of NPR fame or other liberal commentators on their Sunday Business News show to "balance out" their own conservatives. Yes, Beck is outrageous but what about that maniac Keith Olberman over at MSNBC? The problem with all this censoring of FOX or anyone else is that it is just that.....censorship.

137 points by olefoo 17y ago

It's more accurate to say they've withdrawn advertisement due to pressure from Color of Change. Given Fox's ratings I'm sure they can fill the void with less picky companies. The network's demos don't mesh with Apple's target market anyway.

krschultz 17y ago
I bet a lot of people in marketing disagree with that last statement.
- spamizbad 17y ago
  Are you one of those people in marketing? If so, straighten me out because I don't believe you!
  - stanley 17y ago
    Fox's demographic is known to be older, hence they are less experienced than younger computer users. This falls in line with Apple's general selling point for products and software that "just works". That may or may not be the correct answer, but there is a zero chance Apple was running those ads if they weren't backing out for them one way or another.
  - pak 17y ago
    There are conservative folks with plenty of expendable cash... it's not like Apple caters its products to liberals. In many ways Apple tries to position itself as a BMW or Mercedes Benz of the computer market; think of the target for those products.
    - Alex3917 17y ago
      Apple absolutely caters it's products toward liberals. Think different? 1984? The power of the imagination? Dancing hipsters with iPods?
      - torial 17y ago
        Just to add to a good list -- Al Gore on the board is catering toward liberals and not conservatives!
      - pak 17y ago
        The first two campaigns you mention are of a different era and no longer used. Haven't seen the third. The dancing hipsters, you'll notice, has been neutralized over the years with iPod ads focusing more on pop artist appearances, e.g Mary J. Blige (pretty mainstream). In any case it's only part of a larger range of ads; in my opinion the arrogant superiority complex of the ongoing Get a Mac campaign is directly analogous to the breathy narrator of a Lexus ad or a BMW ad proclaiming the Ultimate Driving Machine/Joy of Driving [a BMW]. The iPhone ads are 100% neutral and rather impressive in serving as simple but compelling 20-second product demos.
    - CoryMathews 17y ago
      uhh BMW and Mercedes Benz are targeted at a richer upper class. Apple markets to a "me to" younger market. They are very different IMO.
      - pak 17y ago
        You're oversimplifying on both assessments.
  - borism 17y ago
    iPad is definitely a product for the Fox viewers
- misterbwong 17y ago
  Who a company markets to and who a company sells to are sometimes two very different demographics. Toy companies market towards kids so that the kids can then turn around and market to (beg/plead/ask) their parents. Companies market to their "ideal" buyer-the one that exemplifies their image.
steve19 17y ago
It does not seem like a decision that was made with the best financial interests of shareholders at heart. Unless Fox tried to force them to buy a package, I do not see why they could just avoid advertising on Beck's show.
- danudey 17y ago
  For the same reason that Apple and Google supported Proposition 8: it's the right thing to do. The 'best financial interest of shareholders' for Apple is long-term, and they believe the good will generated by doing the right thing will make the market look more favourably upon them. I know I do. It's a lack of a short-sighted, myopic view that's gotten Apple where it is today. Putting their advertising dollars into ads on another channel (or websites, etc.) instead of Fox News isn't going to cost them a significant amount of sales in the long term, but it is going to hurt Fox in the short term (well, the boycott will). Meanwhile, Apple's not worried about their profits for the next year; they've got so much cash in the bank they don't even need their employees to show up to work for the company to outlive any of us. Their iPad ads will go elsewhere, and will earn them sales, and the shareholders won't suffer at all.
  - wolfhumble 17y ago
    "For the same reason that Apple and Google supported Proposition 8: it's the right thing to do." I think it would be more correct to say: They think it is the right thing to do. I do not share their opinion. I am a buyer too and I do not look more favourably upon them because of this. (I am not talking about Fox news here; don't receive it and have barely watched it, and can't form an opinion over that.)
    - CWuestefeld 17y ago
      This is an important point, and one that it seems is too often forgotten, believe it or not. The framework of much of our political debate seems to assume a particular political direction. For example, the terminology "progressive" indicates that we're only making progress when we engage in these policies, particularly redistributive tax policies. Another example is the common usage of the term "special interests". It seems to me this is commonly used as a synonym for "corporate interests". But more realistically, everything is a special interest. That includes the education establishment and the NEA, unions, and environmentalists. Yes, businesses are a constituency of special interests, but so are those others that support the other side of the spectrum. It can't objectively be said that one side is the common interest of the people, and the others are special; they all hold equal roles in the debate.
thomaspaine 17y ago
The people behind Color of Change (they do a lot of other projects too) are hiring python/Django developers in the bay area by the way, full time and contract. If you forward me your info I'd be happy to send it upstream. My contact info is in my profile.
dabent 17y ago
"Given Fox's ratings I'm sure they can fill the void with less picky companies." Did you know that gold is at an all-time high? Gold is the standard you can rely on in troubled times! BUY GOLD NOW! Did you know that gold is at an all-time high? Your gold can get you through troubled times! GET CASH YOUR GOLD NOW! The commercials on any conservative TV or radio show are more than enough to get me to never watch.

daniel02216 17y ago

I love how they think their network's reputation is 'beginning' to change, and that it isn't already hopelessly ruined.

nollidge 17y ago
I wish it weren't so, but they do have a solid viewership.

delackner 17y ago

A friend in town from London reminded me that his show is actually shown outside the US, and said that British advertisers are quite understandably unhappy with his show. I've never seen it, but I can't imagine it appealing to an international audience.

mahmud 17y ago
I was once in a feel-good Arab-American lovefest summit where influential Arabs were being shown around NYC and DC at the behest of Karen Hughes and the Bush administration. I was in it for the free food. They bused an assortment of Iraqis back to their hotel after a day of sightseeing historic places in town. And I stuck around interpreting for one of the artists .. Long story short. The Iraqis gathered in the hotel lobby where the TV was set to Fox news and, I must say, a day's worth of diplomacy was undone with one hour of the O'Reilly Factor. I am all for freedom of expression, but Fox News is something I rather keep in the U.S. Fox can broadcast overseas as long as they supply traveling and expat Americans with Canadian-flag backpack badges. It's just embarrassing, eh.
- chriskelley 17y ago
  I know your last comment was in jest, but as someone from the US that travels a lot, I would like to mention that I think it is really important for educated/reasonable US Citizens to engage with locals and other travelers while abroad and let people know that what they see on Fox News (et al) isn't all we have to offer! Many of my friends and colleagues here at home are some of the most wonderful, intelligent, caring people I have met anywhere on the globe, and it does them a great injustice to let people around the world judge the US based on what they see or hear on TV. It's the responsibility of those of us that travel to spread the good word of the reasonable US Citizen!
  - dhyasama 17y ago
    I couldn't agree more. I traveled to Croatia a few years ago and stayed with locals. One of the first things each of them said was some variation of "I don't like George Bush." Simply saying "I don't either" brightened them up considerably.

shrnky 17y ago

Man I hate when entertainers start getting political. BUZZ KILL!

TomOfTTB 17y ago

This is just more proof that politics makes people stupid. Boycotting the whole network does the opposite of what they want because people tend to pull together when they're being jointly attacked. So this move is more likely to make Fox stand behind Beck than it is to get them to fire him (As has been pointed out Fox News has double the viewers of it's nearest competitor so it isn't going to be lacking for advertisers) A better move would be to move all their advertising to other shows. Cause all the other ships to rise while Beck's sinks. Then the network won't feel under fire and will instead be asking "Maybe this Beck guy is more trouble than he's worth?"

lallysingh 17y ago
Sure, but: (1) I can't imagine Steve's a fan of Fox. (2) I think Apple may get more favor with their key demographics this way than by supporting Fox. There's a pretty liberal bias in Apple's demographics, at least from my anecdotal experience.
- aaronbrethorst 17y ago
  Rush Limbaugh is a very outspoken (in both senses) Mac user.
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    What mean you by "in both senses?"
    - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
      He's loud and obnoxious (and often a liar), and very passionate about Apple products.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  1.You’re right but Jobs has shown that he doesn’t think it’s a good idea to mix politics and business: http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dreams http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dre... 2.I would hope not. Say what you will about Fox News it’s no worse than MSNBC on the other side. Unless you truly believe Scott Brown is a “Irresponsible, Homophobic, Racist, Reactionary, Nude Model, Teabagging, Supporter Of Violence Against Women and Against Politicians with whom He Disagrees”. Apple’s fans clearly skew liberal but I’d like to think anyone would be opposed to that kind of hypocrisy. Edit: I don't mean to be rude but I just don't have the energy to argue with political nonsense. So all those who claim MSNBC is so much better than Fox News are just being ridiculous. One's left wing and one's right wing and the only reason a person would think one is better than the other is if they subscribed to the political agenda of that station. Citing Joe Scarborough is no different than Fox citing Alan Colmes (no longer on the network but who would still have a job there if he wanted it). And it's just silly to say someone like Olbermann is better or worse than Hannity or O'Reilly.

johnwh 17y ago

I know that many Fox News Anchors use Macs on their respective shows (Fox News is on the TVs at work, do not judge me!), I wonder if Fox will react to this by pulling those computers.

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nlwhittemore 17y ago

Totally reasonable decision. It's one thing when you're talking just political debate and a company explicitly backing one party. But Beck has created an entirely alternate universe that feeds the insane, irrational hatred that the GOP has turned to instead of coming up with good ideas in the last year. I hope there is a major shift in the political conversation and the Republicans actually have a platform again, but Beck is a whole different ballgame for now than someone like O'Rielly even, and I wouldn't want to associate myself with him either.

joezydeco 17y ago
I say let Beck go on and fracture the party.

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joegaudet 17y ago

I for one am glad about this. Glenn Beck is the worst kind of person, stirring up fear for his own personal gain. This along with google's decision to leave china, have been two great examples of companies doing (at least what I perceive to be) the right thing.

mynameishere 17y ago
Glenn Beck is not the worst kind of person. You see? You're saying something blatantly false and everyone agrees with you. It's sad.
- RevRal 17y ago
  I can't think of a worse kind of person. Glen Beck obviously isn't the worst in this category.
  - joegaudet 17y ago
    Well if he's not the worst, he's certainly the most outrageous. That anyone is fooled by his crying, low and high angled shots, and creepy close ups on his eyes is beyond me.
  - joe_the_user 17y ago
    He's the worst in bad category or bad in the worst category...
  - endtime 17y ago
    What about, say, Hitler? Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Beck, but I do think he compares favorably to Hitler, Stalin, et al.
    - stcredzero 17y ago
      This is an interesting variation on Godwin's. What does it mean when someone is being compared favorably to Hitler? Reminds me of a friend's quip about another friend's father: "I was surprised to learn he leans a little to the left of Mao."

Enlightenment 17y ago

Glenn Beck is one of those Crazy Mormons. His scaremongering is one of the reasons why groups like the militant christians, i.e. Hutaree, keep their membership growing.

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Neon2012 17y ago

Glenn Beck primarily speaks out against progressivism and he believes that the United States is spending itself into oblivion. I, for one, completely agree with him. If we are lucky, one day we will all be able to make ipods for China. :)

RevRal 17y ago
"Speaks out against progressivism. . ."? Are you saying that he's bringing to light some caustic force within our country called "progressivism?" I can imagine a lot of ignorant people mumbling and nodding their heads in agreement, with images evoked of an unearthed cancerous network which is eating the country from its foundation. A cancer which has always been here, and has been causing the degradation of everything American. And this problem must be stopped. The solution is simple: anything "progressive" must be regressed, stomped out, and turned to ash, lest we sully our stupid, hardassed, values. Puhlease. Glen Beck's message is absolutely atrocious and dangerous, and I cannot believe someone on HN would "completely" agree with him. Seriously, "progressivism?" Let's go back in time and shoot the founding fathers.
pstuart 17y ago
Please define how 'progressivism' equals 'spending into oblivion'. Does that include the 2 wars the U.S. has been waging for the last 7 years?
- anamax 17y ago
  Let's make sure I understand. Someone says "X is bad". Your response is "bad person Y also did X". It's unclear how that's an argument for the goodness of X. Note that the person who said "X is bad" may have disagreed with it when Y did it. If you find X acceptable now, it's unclear why you're criticizing Y for doing it. And, FWIW, the Iraq/Afghanistan war has been cheaper than Obama's other adventures. And, for all the pre-election talk, Obama has followed the Bush timetable/plan wrt Iraq/Afganistan. Bush's errors do not justify or excuse Obama's actions. However, they do constrain them. WRT govt debt/spending, it's one thing to say "I'll start a diet tomorrow" if you're 20 pounds overweight and quite another if you're 200 pounds overweight. If you honestly think that Bush put us in a hole with spending, you can't seriously argue for digging it deeper.

CoachRufus87 17y ago

"fair & balanced" -LOL i wonder why i'm getting downvoted...we all know that each news outlet has their own angle on the way our country is going. if you don't believe that, then you sadly have your blinders on. see things for what they are folks

RevRal 17y ago
If what you have to say is a little trite, then why repeat it here? You even acknowledge this in saying "we all know. . . ." So. . . . I suspect you think that your comment was worthwhile, in which case I don't get it.
jon_dahl 17y ago
You're downvoted not because you're right or wrong, but because this is not a political discussion forum. (This whole post is borderline, but at least most people have stuck to talking about the Apple/Fox News issue, not which side is destroying the country.)
- olefoo 17y ago
  I had some serious doubts about putting this on HN, and I'm glad to see that my worst fears weren't realized. What swung me towards posting it was the hope that someone on here would have some insight as to why Apple is following this course; unfortunately I have not seen anything solid in that regard. My own take is that to some extent, it's about social class. There may be FoxNews fans who are Mac fans as well, but Apple's brand is an aspirational one; and like BMWs or Volvos it ends up being associated with upper middle-class liberal values even though the product itself has no such bias.

hkuo 17y ago

The only reason Fox News has the numbers it has is because it is the only channel that panders to the lowest common denominator of idiots. Every other major channel has some moralistic sense, so all of the smarter people on the curve get spread out amongst them.

cakesy 17y ago
So the only reason Fox News is so popular is because it caters to the tastes of the majority of people? It is statements like yours that lead these sort of people to talk about liberal elite.
CWuestefeld 17y ago
Downvote because of your assertion that "Every other major channel has some moralistic sense". In fact, Fox is intensely moralistic. You just happen to disagree with what those morals are. Also, you imply that holding these morals indicates that one is less intelligent than those that share your morals. I'm sure this is incorrect, and it's certainly true that you haven't offered any reason to believe it.
- roc 17y ago
  Fox markets to a certain group of intensely moralistic people. That's a very important distinction to remember. If the network were actually moralistic, it wouldn't defend, promote and directly pay so many people who talk the talk, but have been exposed as acting in stark contrast to the network's stated morals. (I'm not claiming other news networks are different in this regard.)
  - CWuestefeld 17y ago
    That's a fair clarification. But I'd claim this is turtles all the way down. The politicians that they're covering exhibit the same dichotomy of actual morals versus play acting for market share. I could go on for days with examples, but here are a few: * Apparently Republicans themselves were the first to suggest an "individual mandate" for health insurance. Yet they're opposed to it now. See discussion here (http://volokh.com/2010/03/29/was-the-individual-mandate-a-republican-idea/ http://volokh.com/2010/03/29/was-the-individual-mandate-a-re... ) for example. * Barney Frank and friends twisted the arms of mortgage lenders to get them to extend loans to people that wouldn't traditionally be considered good candidates. A few years later, he's on TV crucifying banks for doing just that.

dschobel 17y ago

Interesting, the article mentions that ads from smaller companies have been running in place of the boycotting corps, didn't a HNer get his Google TV ad run on Beck's show a week or so ago?

dschobel 17y ago
found it: How I Ran An Ad on Fox News via Google TV Ads http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1206394 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1206394 $1300 got them seven airings on Glen Beck reruns.

cageface 17y ago

I haven't been very happy with several of Apple's latest moves but I have to applaud them for this. It's encouraging to see that some tech companies have the guts to stand up for their values, even if it costs them real revenue.

danudey 17y ago
They'll move their ad dollars from Fox to some other channel and get their sales there instead. I doubt Apple has a huge market among people who only ever watch Fox.

jsz0 17y ago

As big business gets even more directly involved in politics through nearly limitless donation we need to become much more aware of which companies we choose to purchase products from. Realistically I don't expect people to totally change their buying habits but if it's a simple Coke vs. Pepsi sort of choice it's easy enough to make a difference.

quizbiz 17y ago

Is there a way to analytically test if Fox News is bringing in their target demographic? Aside from Girls Gone Wild and Comedy Central, I haven't observed matches that make really good sense. The web is such a better platform in my ignorant opinion.

Daniel_Newby 17y ago

Apple is just cultivating brand blandness. Steve Jobs aspires to be inoffensive to everyone, like Jim Davis does with Garfield the cat. If Glenn Beck had the personality equivalent of rounded corners and a shiny finish, Apple wouldn't be doing this.

brown9-2 17y ago

Here is a longer list of other companies that have joined the same campaign: http://colorofchange.org/beck/more/companies.html http://colorofchange.org/beck/more/companies.html Highlights: -AT&T -Bank of America -Best Buy -Citrix Online -Johnson & Johnson -Mercedes-Benz -Procter & Gamble -SC Johnson (makers of Ziploc, Off!, Pledge, and other products) -Sprint -Toyota-Lexus -The UPS Store -United States Postal Service -Verizon Wireless -Wal-Mart

adolph 17y ago
Did they pay for this brand placement, or is it as free as posting to ycombinator.news?

gjm11 17y ago

The TUAW article is just repeating a small amount of the content of this Washington Post story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/14/AR2010031402312.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03...

grannyg00se 17y ago

I saw an episode where Glenn was demonstrating how Bush increased spending when he was in power, and how Obama is increasing spending now. Both had promised that they wouldn't. Sometimes he says crazy things, but he's pretty good at pointing out some serious deficiencies in government. I've never heard him say anything even remotely racist on television. He does trash talk political figures quite heavily. He seems to be more against big government than against any minority or minorities in general. In fact, I've heard him say that the borders should be cleared up, and immigration fixed so that the government can streamline the process of letting qualified immigrants into the country. On the other hand, he did say that he believes Obama to be a racist. Sometimes I think these people say stupid things deliberately to appeal to their target audience (a la Ann Coulter). That wouldn't be so dangerous, except that their target audience is significant in number and resonates with the most idiotic of statements.

ttrashh 17y ago

Anyone else notice Carbonite is a sponsor? I'm going to move to another backup solution.

btilly 17y ago

(I can't believe that we have a Glenn Beck discussion without this comment yet.) I am not saying that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. I'm not saying that he didn't. But I'm asking why he hasn't denied it. Also see Jon Stewart's take: http://unreasonablefaith.com/2010/03/20/jon-stewart-becomes-glenn-beck/ http://unreasonablefaith.com/2010/03/20/jon-stewart-becomes-...

sdfm 17y ago

I, personally, am a news junkie and I watch almost ALL of the news networks....CNN, MSNBC (when I can stomach THEIR own brand of vitriol), ABC, FOX, CBS and CSPAN. Other than CSPAN, FOX is the only network news channel that even attempts to balance its news shows with opposite points of view. I was watching Chris Matthews last night as he interviewed two people about some stupid subject.....including Matthews all three of those guys completely agreed with each other about what they were discussing and it was, of course, the leftist viewpoint. If you turn on FOX news shows they always have someone, whether it is Juan Williams or Mara Liasson of NPR fame or other liberal commentators on their Sunday Business News show to "balance out" their own conservatives. Yes, Beck is outrageous but what about that maniac Keith Olberman over at MSNBC? The problem with all this censoring of FOX or anyone else is that it is just that.....censorship.