8 ms·

Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

71 points by aceperry 10y ago

Piskvorrr 10y ago
Sssh! Don't tell them now, else they'll just force-install their thing on Patch Tuesday after June 29 (and claim that the "free upgrade" meant "you are free to decide _when_").
- daveguy 10y ago
  I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted so badly. The top comments to the linked article are about how atrocious MS has been in force-upgrading / no upgrade control / no-option telemetry. I think this is a primary reason MS won't meet their goal. By all other measures and reviews it is a top notch OS. The fact that they are using shady tactics with this OS to start vendor lockin and to jumpstart their only-by-subscription options is why people are jumping ship to the viable alternatives.
  - adventured 10y ago
    It's likely getting downvoted so badly because of the use of "crapware" to describe the product - which is a negative contribution to the discussion here.
    - Piskvorrr 10y ago
      There. Better now? Not triggering anyone? (See this for context - IMNSHO a program which does this fully deserves its accolades, no matter if it's pushed by the OS vendor or not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846198 )
herbst 10y ago
A metrix where windows does not look like a failure has to be created first. Not even them are able to do so.
- majewsky 10y ago
  What about desktop market share?
  - herbst 10y ago
    If constant decline does not say failure for you i don't know ether. Given its slow, but consistent non the less.
yoavm 10y ago
Personally I find it very odd. I've been a Linux-only user for the past 13 years, and Windows 10 was the first time I actually considered trying Windows as my main OS. I guess our metrics are different.
- gonzo41 10y ago
  I went to other way. Did mac for about 7 years and became increasingly frustrated with the bloat and stagnant os. Jumped to Win 10 for about 6 weeks before Ubuntu. Didn't mind win 10, just wasn't where i was at.
- ebbv 10y ago
  Whether you considered it or not has nothing to do with whether it's a failure, because Microsoft set a goal post of 1 billion installs by 2018. :P
- sixhobbits 10y ago
  Same - recently switched from Linux to a Windows 10 laptop. Between the virtual desktops and resizable command prompt with clipboard support (along with git tools for Windows that allow ls grep etc in command prompt and along with AHK to implement decent workspace switching) it's almost caught up :)
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    Anniversary Update in a few weeks will let you run Ubuntu's Bash, too, if you want to.
- zerr 10y ago
  Similarly, but for me it was Vista. I'm still on Win7 until MS comes up with "better 7", nothing so far...
  - noxToken 10y ago
    I plan on test driving 10 this weekend. From what I've heard (installation tactics aside), it seems like Win10 is a better Win7. What about it doesn't make it a better Win7? Edit: Clarification.
arbuge 10y ago
Ever since I installed it on my work laptop, it's been crashing the file manager every few days, requiring a reboot. Sometimes more often. I've been refraining from installing it on a bunch of other PCs since then.
- Frank2312 10y ago
  If you have Clover installed, that may be the issue. As soon as I uninstalled it, no more problem. One of my friends also had Clover installed, but he had no problems.
  - arbuge 10y ago
    >> If you have Clover installed, that may be the issue. I don't, so that's not it...
0xcde4c3db 10y ago
This says more about the prediction process than it does about Windows 10. Overly optimistic sales projections are a dime a dozen.
- tantalor 10y ago
  Sales? It was free. They can't give it away.
  - markokrajnc 10y ago
    Windows is mostly sold as OEM on new computers. For existing/old computers they have minimal sales... so they are giving it for free here... Gut since they will start with subscriptions very soon I wonder what is their long term plan with these Win10 installations on existing computers...
  - _Understated_ 10y ago
    It's only free if you have a valid Windows 7 or 8 license that you have already paid for so really, it's not free at all.
    - brudgers 10y ago
      Curious what sort of Windows license hasn't already been paid for.
      - type0 10y ago
        Well, I bout my workstation without it so it's not free for me. This is really a big scam by Microsoft, for previous PC's I had to pay this Windows fee even when it was of no use for me.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  What sales? most of current installs come from underhanded malware infection.
dingo_bat 10y ago
I think this says more about Microsoft's changed mobile strategy than any deficiencies in the OS. Earlier they were planning to keep pushing mobile and making new devices. Now they've given up. 350 million PCs in just less than a year is no joke.
jason46 10y ago
Any one think they are cutting off the free upgrade at the deadline?
- Noseshine 10y ago
  Why not? Arguments in favor of dropping the free program as promised: - It would be the same as before. - Continuing a failed strategy won't suddenly be any more successful. Why should those who didn't upgrade until now suddenly do it? The most likely reason will be because they have to - in which case letting them pay is the better business strategy. - It sets a bad precedent for the future (from their POV), nobody would take similar announcements seriously any more. That said, my reason for not upgrading my PC thus far is that on my officially Windows 10 supported Dell XPS 13 9333 (from 2014) ultrabook (which I bought with Windows 8.1) I have quite severe sound driver crash issues (the actual Realtek driver is even worse, but with only the Microsoft High Definition Audio Device driver I have them too, and I'm not alone), and I have to restart explorer.exe (the window manager) occasionally because something hangs. No chance to get anything done from Dell, even though they officially support the upgrade. On my XPS 8500 PC - two years older - it isn't even officially supported, and it also has a Realtek audio chip. So I'm really reluctant to start the upgrade. I'll do it just before end of the month, but I'll be sure to have everything backed up even if they say I will be able to revert the installation.
muraiki 10y ago
I read another article that said that the failure to reach this metric was due to the lack of sales of Win10 on phones. When I tried a pre-Win10 Lumia in a store I actually found it very impressive, but I heard that the Win10 mobile launch had a rocky start. It seems strange to me that Microsoft was pushing for universal apps, and now that it's close enough to finally happening they've given up on mobile. Somewhat offtopic, but I wonder if performing the Win10 upgrade itself is scary for users. For instance, on a relatively new i5 laptop the upgrade left the screen entirely black for long periods of time. It also says things like "your files are exactly where you left them" with a color changing background; for me I know that Windows must still be installing, but for an average user (like my dad) he had no clue what was going on at that point and thought that the install had failed since it was stuck on that screen for multiple minutes. Edit: I swear that I read the article, since the article itself mentions mobile. I just haven't had any caffeine yet...
- NobleSir 10y ago
  >given up on mobile I don't know about that, they sure have been pushing a lot of new builds lately : https://www.reddit.com/domain/blogs.windows.com/search?q=build&sort=new&restrict_sr=on https://www.reddit.com/domain/blogs.windows.com/search?q=bui... though I guess they did sell part of Nokia or something.. Sad because those phones are super durable for someone like me who breaks devices constantly
  - Alterlife 10y ago
    Unfortunately, Lumia's are not durable. The screen of my Lumia 620 broke after just a few months of use. Nokia's legendary durability died with the feature phone.
    - NobleSir 10y ago
      Well, I haven't used the 620, but my anecdotal experience has been the opposite. List of recent devices I own that are unbroken: lumia 521, 950, and Kyocera Rise. broken: nexus 7 (screen after 2 months), asus fonepad note 6 (screen after ~1 year), galaxy s4 (won't connect to tower, probably my fault for installing roms incorrectly) In particular the 950 has been dropped in the river in breckenridge, and the 521 in a natural hotspring / taken on many rainy hikes / dropped more times than I can count.
lanevorockz 10y ago
Microsft metrics were always a bit dubious, they used to claim sales for pirated Windows copies as well as any copies that were given away or claimed on MSDN. Anyway, monopoly is not a healthy state for any market and honestly in the near future the exclusivity of Apps will fade and the choice of OS should be based on personal preference. Or how much better they are, not because software is only built for platform X.
FussyZeus 10y ago
I remember when 7 (and even Vista for a certain number of users who had a powerful machine and the right hardware) came out, there was a lot of them saying how happy they were to upgrade from XP (and definitely Vista for obvious reasons). Finding someone who loved 7 compared to Vista was easy, they were everywhere. Contrast that with 10, I think I've found maybe 2 people in my group of online and offline friends who "like" it, not love, just like, and the rest are varying degrees of indifference and of course there's a few people who outright hate it. One of my sysadmin friends is currently looking into if he can rebuild his company laptop with 7 because he just can't stand 10. I only bring this up because it seems like while people didn't like 8 hardly at all, nobody really seems to love 10 either. They either shrug their shoulders because they don't care, or they tolerate it because it's better than nothing.
smrtinsert 10y ago
Surprising given that I've really been enjoying Windows 10. Built a recently and I put it on it just figuring it was stable enough. I'm really liking it and find it so pleasant and seamless I haven't even disabled UAC!
youdontknowtho 10y ago
I love the register. (I'm not kidding. I think they are awesome.) The only thing that makes this not click bait is that their writing is often the funniest in the tech industry. They are acerbic about everything and everyone. I like that. Microsoft will meet the billion device mark, but it will take longer now that they have given up on mobile...for the time being. I doubt seriously that they have given up on mobile completely and forever. Times and tech change. They may still find a niche to play in. There are so many internet enabled devices these days that they could find a niche and still hit a billion devices running windows if you count xbox and PC's.
torgoguys 10y ago
Yes, it will fail TO hit it's own metric (1 billion devices by mid 2018) and thus is a "failure" on that metric. However, saying (as this headline does) that Windows is a failure "by Microsoft's own metric" implies it has failed in the marketplace. Nope--it's reasonably popular (no doubt helped by the free upgrade). Windows 7 is still king by a long shot, but Apple, for example, would love if MacOS/OSX's market share (all versions!) totalled as many computers as just Windows 10--it would be an approximately 50% increase in Apple's laptop/desktop market share. (Source is https://netmarketshare.com/ https://netmarketshare.com/. No direct link available. Click on "Operating Systems" / "Desktop Share by Version" for details.)
davidf18 10y ago
In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. Even IBM has gone to using Macs today. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every-mac-we-buy-is-making-and-saving-ibm-money-ibm.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every... So the machines are very cheap, even to IBM they are easier to use and require less tech support. For those that want to do some software development with open source, very useful. While Office 2016 Mac is not as good as Office 2016 Windows, it works fairly well. And if you really need the Windows 10 OS, you can invest in a Parallels virtual machine. Besides, for many of us, Apple has stores where we can take the computer into a Genius Bar to get problems fixed. In NYC, we even have a 24 hour/367 store (Fifth Avenue). There will be a seventh store in Manhattan soon. There is one in Queens, Statin Island, and one in Brooklyn soon. Other cities have access as well of course. So, except in certain important cases like gaming and certain specific applications, or cases where the stylus and touch is really important and the Microsoft Surface would be a best choice, a Mac is a better investment for most.
- adevine 10y ago
  > In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. This comparison makes no sense to me. It's 2016, not 2000, so the fact that a Mac Air is $700 in 2000 dollars is a completely random and arbitrary number.
  - tedunangst 10y ago
    You couldn't buy any laptop of any quality for $700 in 2000. Macs have the reputation of being overpriced, but they are much more affordable than computers at the turn of the century. Of course, PCs are still available for less, but the point is that many people previously unable to afford a Mac can.
    - jtuente 10y ago
      That's a pointless metric to use for affordability, because that $300 difference is purely inflation. It has absolutely nothing to do with Apple making their products cheaper.
kirkdouglas 10y ago
Microsoft's plan for Windows 10 deployment looks very optimistic. Seems that's why they pushing users to upgrade to Windows 10 so hard.
wangchow 10y ago
I've been using the Lumia 650 for a couple months now and it's a solid device. If only it was their first iteration! Also, for those used to using a Macbook/Ipad/Iphone, consider the Surface lineup is really tablet-and-laptop in one. I have been using a Surface Pro 3 for about 2 years now and really swear by the device. There's nothing like it on the market. The anniversary Win10 update is coming soon too. Tough to say what their goals are in the mobile space though.. It's a saturated market and people are already plugged into ecosystems so it's tough to pull them out. The plus with Windows 10 Universal though is that for developers, why not make it universal and get added mobile/desktop app for free? Hard to say where they're going.. The entire market has sort of reached a strange place with shifts to the cloud and attempts at AI (I disable cortana by the way because she eats battery for breakfast).
nimos 10y ago
I think a big part of the problem is Windows 7 is so good. I have very little incentive to switch at all. I'll probably do it sometime in the next week because free upgrades end July 29th but only because I have Windows 10 on a laptop and I've been happy with it. If I hadn't had that experience I wouldn't risk it.
- j_s 10y ago
  Make a 32GB-ish partition and activate Windows 10 there. You might need to find something that can defrag at boot to relocate system files to make a big enough space... AOMEI offers their partition resizing tools free even for commercial use: http://www.aomeitech.com/freeware.html http://www.aomeitech.com/freeware.html
- donny2015 10y ago
  Yes, Windows 7 is very good indeed, but after upgrading to Win 10 none of my workflows changed, and my 7 year old laptop got noticeably snappier.
  - brudgers 10y ago
    That's my experience as well. Windows 10 is significantly less crufty than 7 or 8. The interface is gorgeous to boot. Not sure I'll switch from Ubuntu for day to day, but it's possible.
SeanDav 10y ago
Ironically, Windows 10 is probably the Microsoft OS that is going to push me full time to using Linux. Right now I use Linux for work, but home network, and laptops (except 1 Mac) all run on Windows 7/8. However the underhanded tactics that Microsoft have resorted to in order to try force me to upgrade and the fact that I lose significant (actually all) control on patching, worries about MS spyware etc means that Windows 7/8 is the last Microsoft OS for me.
- cptskippy 10y ago
  This false rhetoric is really getting old. The double standards, holding MS to a higher standard than everyone else, and the ignoring of reality really make it hard to sympathize with the one valid argument you actually have.
  - Sylos 10y ago
    Are you sure you replied to the right comment? I can neither see false rhetoric nor any form of double standard in the parent. Otherwise, please do explain what you mean with that.
    - cptskippy 10y ago
      Why is my responsibility to explain how the OP is lying rather than for him to justify his lies? I would ask you to explain to me how the OP's statements are true. The only truth in the OP's original statement was regarding the Windows 10 upgrade program. Everything else is FUD.
      - SeanDav 10y ago
        FUD you say? Please explain how one can permanently or even significantly delay a security update in Windows 10 Home and Professional? While one generally wants security updates, there are time when one does not. There could be something in the new patch that clashes with some hardware combinations and a new patch could render my machine unusable. As far as privacy and data protection, here are some quotes from a recent article in pcadvisor.com: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-windows-10-why-upgrade-window-10-is-windows-10-good-two-3618139/ http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-... > "After writing this article in June 2015 before Windows 10 was released, there was quite the backlash from people who felt that their privacy was being invaded by Windows 10, and rightfully so. Not only is Microsoft now urging people to upgrade to Windows 10, but it's almost forcing them. The reason appears to be data harvesting. Windows 10 collects a variety of data, some for improving the effectiveness of features such as Cortana. There are ways (as you can see below), even before installing Windows 10 to disable most of these features and prevent your information from being captured in the first place." > "By switching them off, you'll have more privacy, but how much more data Microsoft is collecting is anyone's guess. We certainly can't say that you can prevent 100 percent of your data from being sent to Microsoft, but it's safe to say that Windows 10 does have the most data harvesting of any version of Windows yet. By switching them off, you'll have more privacy, but how much more data Microsoft is collecting is anyone's guess. We certainly can't say that you can prevent 100 percent of your data from being sent to Microsoft, but it's safe to say that Windows 10 does have the most data harvesting of any version of Windows yet."

71 points by aceperry 10y ago

Sssh! Don't tell them now, else they'll just force-install their thing on Patch Tuesday after June 29 (and claim that the "free upgrade" meant "you are free to decide _when_").

daveguy 10y ago
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted so badly. The top comments to the linked article are about how atrocious MS has been in force-upgrading / no upgrade control / no-option telemetry. I think this is a primary reason MS won't meet their goal. By all other measures and reviews it is a top notch OS. The fact that they are using shady tactics with this OS to start vendor lockin and to jumpstart their only-by-subscription options is why people are jumping ship to the viable alternatives.
- adventured 10y ago
  It's likely getting downvoted so badly because of the use of "crapware" to describe the product - which is a negative contribution to the discussion here.
  - Piskvorrr 10y ago
    There. Better now? Not triggering anyone? (See this for context - IMNSHO a program which does this fully deserves its accolades, no matter if it's pushed by the OS vendor or not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846198 )

herbst 10y ago

A metrix where windows does not look like a failure has to be created first. Not even them are able to do so.

majewsky 10y ago
What about desktop market share?
- herbst 10y ago
  If constant decline does not say failure for you i don't know ether. Given its slow, but consistent non the less.

yoavm 10y ago

Personally I find it very odd. I've been a Linux-only user for the past 13 years, and Windows 10 was the first time I actually considered trying Windows as my main OS. I guess our metrics are different.

gonzo41 10y ago
I went to other way. Did mac for about 7 years and became increasingly frustrated with the bloat and stagnant os. Jumped to Win 10 for about 6 weeks before Ubuntu. Didn't mind win 10, just wasn't where i was at.
ebbv 10y ago
Whether you considered it or not has nothing to do with whether it's a failure, because Microsoft set a goal post of 1 billion installs by 2018. :P
sixhobbits 10y ago
Same - recently switched from Linux to a Windows 10 laptop. Between the virtual desktops and resizable command prompt with clipboard support (along with git tools for Windows that allow ls grep etc in command prompt and along with AHK to implement decent workspace switching) it's almost caught up :)
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  Anniversary Update in a few weeks will let you run Ubuntu's Bash, too, if you want to.
zerr 10y ago
Similarly, but for me it was Vista. I'm still on Win7 until MS comes up with "better 7", nothing so far...
- noxToken 10y ago
  I plan on test driving 10 this weekend. From what I've heard (installation tactics aside), it seems like Win10 is a better Win7. What about it doesn't make it a better Win7? Edit: Clarification.

arbuge 10y ago

Ever since I installed it on my work laptop, it's been crashing the file manager every few days, requiring a reboot. Sometimes more often. I've been refraining from installing it on a bunch of other PCs since then.

Frank2312 10y ago
If you have Clover installed, that may be the issue. As soon as I uninstalled it, no more problem. One of my friends also had Clover installed, but he had no problems.
- arbuge 10y ago
  >> If you have Clover installed, that may be the issue. I don't, so that's not it...

0xcde4c3db 10y ago

This says more about the prediction process than it does about Windows 10. Overly optimistic sales projections are a dime a dozen.

tantalor 10y ago
Sales? It was free. They can't give it away.
- markokrajnc 10y ago
  Windows is mostly sold as OEM on new computers. For existing/old computers they have minimal sales... so they are giving it for free here... Gut since they will start with subscriptions very soon I wonder what is their long term plan with these Win10 installations on existing computers...
- _Understated_ 10y ago
  It's only free if you have a valid Windows 7 or 8 license that you have already paid for so really, it's not free at all.
  - brudgers 10y ago
    Curious what sort of Windows license hasn't already been paid for.
    - type0 10y ago
      Well, I bout my workstation without it so it's not free for me. This is really a big scam by Microsoft, for previous PC's I had to pay this Windows fee even when it was of no use for me.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
rasz_pl 10y ago
What sales? most of current installs come from underhanded malware infection.

dingo_bat 10y ago

I think this says more about Microsoft's changed mobile strategy than any deficiencies in the OS. Earlier they were planning to keep pushing mobile and making new devices. Now they've given up. 350 million PCs in just less than a year is no joke.

jason46 10y ago

Any one think they are cutting off the free upgrade at the deadline?

Noseshine 10y ago
Why not? Arguments in favor of dropping the free program as promised: - It would be the same as before. - Continuing a failed strategy won't suddenly be any more successful. Why should those who didn't upgrade until now suddenly do it? The most likely reason will be because they have to - in which case letting them pay is the better business strategy. - It sets a bad precedent for the future (from their POV), nobody would take similar announcements seriously any more. That said, my reason for not upgrading my PC thus far is that on my officially Windows 10 supported Dell XPS 13 9333 (from 2014) ultrabook (which I bought with Windows 8.1) I have quite severe sound driver crash issues (the actual Realtek driver is even worse, but with only the Microsoft High Definition Audio Device driver I have them too, and I'm not alone), and I have to restart explorer.exe (the window manager) occasionally because something hangs. No chance to get anything done from Dell, even though they officially support the upgrade. On my XPS 8500 PC - two years older - it isn't even officially supported, and it also has a Realtek audio chip. So I'm really reluctant to start the upgrade. I'll do it just before end of the month, but I'll be sure to have everything backed up even if they say I will be able to revert the installation.

muraiki 10y ago

I read another article that said that the failure to reach this metric was due to the lack of sales of Win10 on phones. When I tried a pre-Win10 Lumia in a store I actually found it very impressive, but I heard that the Win10 mobile launch had a rocky start. It seems strange to me that Microsoft was pushing for universal apps, and now that it's close enough to finally happening they've given up on mobile. Somewhat offtopic, but I wonder if performing the Win10 upgrade itself is scary for users. For instance, on a relatively new i5 laptop the upgrade left the screen entirely black for long periods of time. It also says things like "your files are exactly where you left them" with a color changing background; for me I know that Windows must still be installing, but for an average user (like my dad) he had no clue what was going on at that point and thought that the install had failed since it was stuck on that screen for multiple minutes. Edit: I swear that I read the article, since the article itself mentions mobile. I just haven't had any caffeine yet...

NobleSir 10y ago
>given up on mobile I don't know about that, they sure have been pushing a lot of new builds lately : https://www.reddit.com/domain/blogs.windows.com/search?q=build&sort=new&restrict_sr=on https://www.reddit.com/domain/blogs.windows.com/search?q=bui... though I guess they did sell part of Nokia or something.. Sad because those phones are super durable for someone like me who breaks devices constantly
- Alterlife 10y ago
  Unfortunately, Lumia's are not durable. The screen of my Lumia 620 broke after just a few months of use. Nokia's legendary durability died with the feature phone.
  - NobleSir 10y ago
    Well, I haven't used the 620, but my anecdotal experience has been the opposite. List of recent devices I own that are unbroken: lumia 521, 950, and Kyocera Rise. broken: nexus 7 (screen after 2 months), asus fonepad note 6 (screen after ~1 year), galaxy s4 (won't connect to tower, probably my fault for installing roms incorrectly) In particular the 950 has been dropped in the river in breckenridge, and the 521 in a natural hotspring / taken on many rainy hikes / dropped more times than I can count.

lanevorockz 10y ago

Microsft metrics were always a bit dubious, they used to claim sales for pirated Windows copies as well as any copies that were given away or claimed on MSDN. Anyway, monopoly is not a healthy state for any market and honestly in the near future the exclusivity of Apps will fade and the choice of OS should be based on personal preference. Or how much better they are, not because software is only built for platform X.

FussyZeus 10y ago

I remember when 7 (and even Vista for a certain number of users who had a powerful machine and the right hardware) came out, there was a lot of them saying how happy they were to upgrade from XP (and definitely Vista for obvious reasons). Finding someone who loved 7 compared to Vista was easy, they were everywhere. Contrast that with 10, I think I've found maybe 2 people in my group of online and offline friends who "like" it, not love, just like, and the rest are varying degrees of indifference and of course there's a few people who outright hate it. One of my sysadmin friends is currently looking into if he can rebuild his company laptop with 7 because he just can't stand 10. I only bring this up because it seems like while people didn't like 8 hardly at all, nobody really seems to love 10 either. They either shrug their shoulders because they don't care, or they tolerate it because it's better than nothing.

smrtinsert 10y ago

Surprising given that I've really been enjoying Windows 10. Built a recently and I put it on it just figuring it was stable enough. I'm really liking it and find it so pleasant and seamless I haven't even disabled UAC!

youdontknowtho 10y ago

I love the register. (I'm not kidding. I think they are awesome.) The only thing that makes this not click bait is that their writing is often the funniest in the tech industry. They are acerbic about everything and everyone. I like that. Microsoft will meet the billion device mark, but it will take longer now that they have given up on mobile...for the time being. I doubt seriously that they have given up on mobile completely and forever. Times and tech change. They may still find a niche to play in. There are so many internet enabled devices these days that they could find a niche and still hit a billion devices running windows if you count xbox and PC's.

torgoguys 10y ago

Yes, it will fail TO hit it's own metric (1 billion devices by mid 2018) and thus is a "failure" on that metric. However, saying (as this headline does) that Windows is a failure "by Microsoft's own metric" implies it has failed in the marketplace. Nope--it's reasonably popular (no doubt helped by the free upgrade). Windows 7 is still king by a long shot, but Apple, for example, would love if MacOS/OSX's market share (all versions!) totalled as many computers as just Windows 10--it would be an approximately 50% increase in Apple's laptop/desktop market share. (Source is https://netmarketshare.com/ https://netmarketshare.com/. No direct link available. Click on "Operating Systems" / "Desktop Share by Version" for details.)

davidf18 10y ago

In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. Even IBM has gone to using Macs today. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every-mac-we-buy-is-making-and-saving-ibm-money-ibm.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every... So the machines are very cheap, even to IBM they are easier to use and require less tech support. For those that want to do some software development with open source, very useful. While Office 2016 Mac is not as good as Office 2016 Windows, it works fairly well. And if you really need the Windows 10 OS, you can invest in a Parallels virtual machine. Besides, for many of us, Apple has stores where we can take the computer into a Genius Bar to get problems fixed. In NYC, we even have a 24 hour/367 store (Fifth Avenue). There will be a seventh store in Manhattan soon. There is one in Queens, Statin Island, and one in Brooklyn soon. Other cities have access as well of course. So, except in certain important cases like gaming and certain specific applications, or cases where the stylus and touch is really important and the Microsoft Surface would be a best choice, a Mac is a better investment for most.

adevine 10y ago
> In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. This comparison makes no sense to me. It's 2016, not 2000, so the fact that a Mac Air is $700 in 2000 dollars is a completely random and arbitrary number.
- tedunangst 10y ago
  You couldn't buy any laptop of any quality for $700 in 2000. Macs have the reputation of being overpriced, but they are much more affordable than computers at the turn of the century. Of course, PCs are still available for less, but the point is that many people previously unable to afford a Mac can.
  - jtuente 10y ago
    That's a pointless metric to use for affordability, because that $300 difference is purely inflation. It has absolutely nothing to do with Apple making their products cheaper.

kirkdouglas 10y ago

Microsoft's plan for Windows 10 deployment looks very optimistic. Seems that's why they pushing users to upgrade to Windows 10 so hard.

wangchow 10y ago

I've been using the Lumia 650 for a couple months now and it's a solid device. If only it was their first iteration! Also, for those used to using a Macbook/Ipad/Iphone, consider the Surface lineup is really tablet-and-laptop in one. I have been using a Surface Pro 3 for about 2 years now and really swear by the device. There's nothing like it on the market. The anniversary Win10 update is coming soon too. Tough to say what their goals are in the mobile space though.. It's a saturated market and people are already plugged into ecosystems so it's tough to pull them out. The plus with Windows 10 Universal though is that for developers, why not make it universal and get added mobile/desktop app for free? Hard to say where they're going.. The entire market has sort of reached a strange place with shifts to the cloud and attempts at AI (I disable cortana by the way because she eats battery for breakfast).

nimos 10y ago

I think a big part of the problem is Windows 7 is so good. I have very little incentive to switch at all. I'll probably do it sometime in the next week because free upgrades end July 29th but only because I have Windows 10 on a laptop and I've been happy with it. If I hadn't had that experience I wouldn't risk it.

j_s 10y ago
Make a 32GB-ish partition and activate Windows 10 there. You might need to find something that can defrag at boot to relocate system files to make a big enough space... AOMEI offers their partition resizing tools free even for commercial use: http://www.aomeitech.com/freeware.html http://www.aomeitech.com/freeware.html
donny2015 10y ago
Yes, Windows 7 is very good indeed, but after upgrading to Win 10 none of my workflows changed, and my 7 year old laptop got noticeably snappier.
- brudgers 10y ago
  That's my experience as well. Windows 10 is significantly less crufty than 7 or 8. The interface is gorgeous to boot. Not sure I'll switch from Ubuntu for day to day, but it's possible.

SeanDav 10y ago

Ironically, Windows 10 is probably the Microsoft OS that is going to push me full time to using Linux. Right now I use Linux for work, but home network, and laptops (except 1 Mac) all run on Windows 7/8. However the underhanded tactics that Microsoft have resorted to in order to try force me to upgrade and the fact that I lose significant (actually all) control on patching, worries about MS spyware etc means that Windows 7/8 is the last Microsoft OS for me.

cptskippy 10y ago
This false rhetoric is really getting old. The double standards, holding MS to a higher standard than everyone else, and the ignoring of reality really make it hard to sympathize with the one valid argument you actually have.
- Sylos 10y ago
  Are you sure you replied to the right comment? I can neither see false rhetoric nor any form of double standard in the parent. Otherwise, please do explain what you mean with that.
  - cptskippy 10y ago
    Why is my responsibility to explain how the OP is lying rather than for him to justify his lies? I would ask you to explain to me how the OP's statements are true. The only truth in the OP's original statement was regarding the Windows 10 upgrade program. Everything else is FUD.
    - SeanDav 10y ago
      FUD you say? Please explain how one can permanently or even significantly delay a security update in Windows 10 Home and Professional? While one generally wants security updates, there are time when one does not. There could be something in the new patch that clashes with some hardware combinations and a new patch could render my machine unusable. As far as privacy and data protection, here are some quotes from a recent article in pcadvisor.com: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-windows-10-why-upgrade-window-10-is-windows-10-good-two-3618139/ http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-... > "After writing this article in June 2015 before Windows 10 was released, there was quite the backlash from people who felt that their privacy was being invaded by Windows 10, and rightfully so. Not only is Microsoft now urging people to upgrade to Windows 10, but it's almost forcing them. The reason appears to be data harvesting. Windows 10 collects a variety of data, some for improving the effectiveness of features such as Cortana. There are ways (as you can see below), even before installing Windows 10 to disable most of these features and prevent your information from being captured in the first place." > "By switching them off, you'll have more privacy, but how much more data Microsoft is collecting is anyone's guess. We certainly can't say that you can prevent 100 percent of your data from being sent to Microsoft, but it's safe to say that Windows 10 does have the most data harvesting of any version of Windows yet. By switching them off, you'll have more privacy, but how much more data Microsoft is collecting is anyone's guess. We certainly can't say that you can prevent 100 percent of your data from being sent to Microsoft, but it's safe to say that Windows 10 does have the most data harvesting of any version of Windows yet."