14 ms·

Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

203 points by gedrap 10y ago

libeclipse 10y ago
Is this a joke? Surely something so utterly stupid can't be real. This man just gave the public free rein to murder and get away with it. Jesus this planet is insane.
- jasonjei 10y ago
  I thought the same. Just a few weekends ago that silly Purge movie came out. Little did I know reality would follow.
- yelnatz 10y ago
  Nope, it's not a joke. This guy just got elected. He was mayor before this, and that's how he ran his city. He had secret death squads that cleaned the streets and "transformed" his city to the 5th safest city in the world. [0] [0]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/125132/davao-city-improves-to-5th-in-ranking-of-worlds-safest-cities http://globalnation.inquirer.net/125132/davao-city-improves-...
  - rurban 10y ago
    Sounds like Mexico then. https://vimeo.com/18768132 https://vimeo.com/18768132
  - abalone 10y ago
    That data is crowdsourced and methodologically questionable. Davao actually has a high murder and rape rate.[1] [1] http://m.gulfnews.com/news/asia/philippines/one-crime-every-80-minutes-in-davao-city-1.1660705 http://m.gulfnews.com/news/asia/philippines/one-crime-every-...
  - calgoo 10y ago
    Yea, my mother i law also says that Barcelona, Spain was really safe at night during the dictatorship, with military police on every corner. That does not make it right, or even a good thing. Safety for the sake of safety is not a solution.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- geowwy 10y ago
  Seems crazy but people of the Philippines knew what they were voting for. This is exactly what he did when he was mayor of Davao: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte#Davao_City_mayor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte#Davao_City_may... To play devil's advocate: Drugs and the criminal networks supported by drugs are a massive problem in the Philippines. Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it, but this is a solution that works, even if it does offend our first world sensibilities.
  - teej 10y ago
    Did you honestly just justify genocide?
    - geowwy 10y ago
      Nope. Read again.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it Yes, so let's go kill a bunch of people, instead of reforming the police force.
    - calgoo 10y ago
      So can we kill corrupt cops as well then? I mean if we are going to go full circle, lets just kill everyone we dont agree with. That will solve all our issues! /s
      - rbanffy 10y ago
        Of course, the people with guns will kill the people who doesn't have guns. Since drug dealers and drug users never have guns, it's easy.
  - 1ris 10y ago
    Killing suspects on sight does offend my first world sensibilities as it offends anybody with a spark of reason and anybody who gasp the concept of moral. A state that does kill random citizens has no legitimacy. states are formed by individuals in order to ensure they are not subject to random violence or violation of their rights. If a state can't or does not want to guarantee that nobody has any reason to respect the state. If police men kill random people because they think they deal drugs, the ordinary citizen has every right to kill police men because they think the police thinks they deal drugs. (or their fellow country men) In such a state of affairs, what's the purpose of a state? What's it's legitimacy? It doesn't have any. A complete lack of any institutions and anarchy would protect everybodys rights better.
- Bakary 10y ago
  It's actually not that insane from the perspective of a local voter who has nothing to lose and has a miserable crime-ridden existence. It's not qualitatively different from disenfranchised workers voting for Trump. It's the nuclear option for people who have no way to profit from the existing system. It just so happens that life is much, much easier in the US so there is no need to consider actual violence when thinking about going nuclear.
  - simplemath 10y ago
    No, it's still insane.
    - vixen99 10y ago
      Using the word 'insane' does not contribute to the discussion in this context.
    - sdoering 10y ago
      Calling it insanity is not only overly dismissive and chauvinistic, but also not helping in any way furthering understanding. If you want to solve a problem you have to understand it first and foremost. Just calling it insanity is therefore not only not helpful, but harmful as others might take up that world view and stop caring for a real solution. I do not have a solution, but am trying to understand how people can be so miserable (be it workers in US voting for Trump, German people voting AfD or people in the Philippines seeing this as a viable option/solution to their problem, when it probably even isn't such). I can understand being desperate and taking desperate measures. But killing? I am so not able to understand it - even while I am trying to find rational reasons/explanations.
  - tankenmate 10y ago
    The most dangerous person in the room is the one with nothing to lose.
  - joe5150 10y ago
    this is not remotely like voting for Trump. and it doesn't "so happen" that life is easier in countries with functioning (if deeply flawed) justice systems than it is in ones where corruption and vigilantism rule; there are pretty good reasons for why that is.
FreedomToCreate 10y ago
Hypocrites in powerful positions are more dangerous than even incompetent leaders. There is no way this guy does not have a history of drug use.
- restalis 10y ago
  The more I think about, the more I get inclined to believe that this guy has indeed to be on some drugs himself in order to do what he just did. Or that others need drugs to get in a state of thought in which this president happens to persist naturally due to madness!
cyberferret 10y ago
Truly, we live in a world gone mad... Where will this end? In a few years, shooting jay walkers will be the norm...
- rimantas 10y ago
  http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/12/the_world_is_not_falling_apart_the_trend_lines_reveal_an_increasingly_peaceful.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2...
  - cyberferret 10y ago
    I am reassured.... carry on world... (You do notice that most of the graphs lower down the page have a sharp uptick towards the far right ?!? especially "Violent Victimisation at School", "Prevalence of Mass Killings", "Rate of Death in Genocides and Other Killings", "Wars > 1000 Deaths/Year" whilst things like "Rape and Sexual Assault", "Physical Abuse", "Sexual Abuse" show a small uptrend)
  - rhaps0dy 10y ago
    The "democracy vs autocracy" graph seems disingenuous, as it shows the _sum_ of scores and not the mean. If the number of democracies has been increasing, the graph may show the same trend it shows without the democracies actually being better. And the biggest shift in the graph happens, unsurprisingly, when the USSR falls, which switches the score of all its countries from one side to the other.
  - pluma 10y ago
    To summarize most of these graphs: there's currently a significant increase in bad things, but overall there has been a downward trend for decades.
cgs1019 10y ago
The link cites a vice article that cites a guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-urges-people-to-kill-drug-addicts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/philippines-pr...
- FreedomToCreate 10y ago
  https://xkcd.com/978/ https://xkcd.com/978/
  - lordnacho 10y ago
    http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/how-a-raccoon-became-an-aardvark http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/how-a-raccoon-became-...
faklco 10y ago
Even more frightening is how widely supported Duterte and his death squads are in the Philippines. He has strong ties to the Davao Death Squad which operated whilst he was mayor of Davao City, and the Philippino public largely supports the executions.
- prawn 10y ago
  I think that's the most concerning part of this (and other concerning but slightly less insane potential leaders around the world) - that the public can be so easily convinced that this is a reasonable choice. Is it that the craziest plans standout against the two regular options? Or that the regular options hedge their bets and don't appear to adequately address issues concerning the masses?
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Very often, the "conventional" options in a democratic republic end up representing competing visions of how to address the issues that matter most to elites (not necessarily the upper class alone, but the upper and middle classes -- which together are still usually a minority of the population -- and maybe the upper end of the working class), who in normal times are often the vast majority of participation in the political system. They often have less contact with the bulk of the working class (including the nonworking poor) and their concerns, which when things get especially intolerable for that class, and their immediate interests get most divergent from the elites, opens up a big opportunity for unconventional populist alternatives (often including exploitive totalitarian demagogues, though positive reform-oriented uplifting populism also happens at times, sometimes competing with the other kind.)
abpavel 10y ago
So, I can kill anyone and claim they were an addict? Who is going to prove me otherwise? It's dissapointing that people see this as something to do with drugs, while in reality it's just a green light for a killing frenzy.
- xerophyte12932 10y ago
  That was my first thought as well, but then I realized normal people aren't just waiting with stow away guns waiting for the day they can go on a killing frenzy. The type who are like that are possibly connected to drug as wells (as either addicts or part of the criminal machine) which means they are more likely to go into hiding lest they be killed themselves. Yes, maybe some murderers will slip under the radar, but the numbers so far look good. Only 30 deaths over the country (that's no killing frenzy) and 952 people have surrendered to the authorities. I'd say it's working
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - waterphone 10y ago
    30 deaths in 4 days.
  - restalis 10y ago
    "then I realized normal people aren't just waiting with stow away guns waiting for the day they can go on a killing frenzy" No, it seems that unknowingly, the "normal people" were waiting for the people with guns, and all of them together were waiting the right time, which is now! "Only 30 deaths over the country (that's no killing frenzy) and 952 people have surrendered to the authorities. I'd say it's working" Who gives you the figures? As I understand, the president's opposing figures, including journalists, were targets for some time already! ...for being drug dealers or addicts, allegedly. It's safe to assume that the ones that left to live have to really impress the president with their reporting.
dkarapetyan 10y ago
How did we collectively let this happen? Yes, I'm sitting on a very comfy armchair while jerking off a unicorn so that the galley of VCs can have their fill of unicorn jizz.
- sctb 10y ago
  Please don't do this.
jmspring 10y ago
Not directly related to Phillipines, but an actual Bay Area addict case question...And honestly, I'm not sure of individuals current state (no arrest records)... Young female from out of area (some state) comes (homeless) to a town known for downward spirals. Arrested 20+ times over 2 years, mainly around meth addiction, but seriously mental. Local people reach out to family/friends of said individual via social media expressing concern, no response. Individual continues to flail. County (in California) refuses to adopt Laura's Law -- incarnation of adults with repeat mental issues -- lack of budget. Who is responsible for the individual and why? Addicts need a will to want to recover. Some are hell bent on escape regardless. What is the right social/safety net? Relevance to post: many people in this community and similar are tired of people throwing their life away and expecting a safety net.
- ianai 10y ago
  Maybe you accept the person needs 20 mg (just a number) of meth to get through a day and put them up in a simple room and board situation. Toss in routine mental help. Something where the society provides the person with a means to live without becoming desperate for a fix.
- deanCommie 10y ago
  Society. Society is responsible. The fact that people in the richest country in the world are still having this debate is appalling to Canadians and Western Europeans. Americans will be the last on this ship, but part of living in a prosperous 21st century society means giving up some liberty (in the form of taxes, limited access to guns, suffering additional government bureaucracy) for the knowledge that getting sick should never be a death sentence regardless of your income level. Neither should poverty. Universal Basic Income WILL happen. After that, anyone who is still unable to provide for themselves and stays homeless needs medical support beyond financial support, because the incidence of mental health issues amongst the homeless is huge. Finally, addiction should be treated like a health issue also. Now you can say that "it's not fair" that some people will end up pulling more from the collective pot of funds than others. But that's society. It's not about fairness. It's about every life being worth something, and having the potential to put something back into society after their recovery.
jmspring 10y ago
Not directly related to Phillipines, but an actual Bay Area addict case question...And honestly, I'm not sure of individuals current state (no arrest records)... Young female from out of area (some state) comes (homeless) to a town known for downward spirals. Arrested 20+ times over 2 years, mainly around meth addiction, but seriously mental. Local people reach out to family/friends of said individual via social media expressing concern, no response. Individual continues to flail. County (in California) refuses to adopt Laura's Law -- incarnation of adults with repeat mental issues -- lack of budget. Who is responsible for the individual and why? Addicts need a will to want to recover. Some are hell bent on escape regardless. What is the right social/safety net? Relevance to post: many people in this community and similar are tired of people throwing their life away and expecting a safety net.
Jedd 10y ago
This is probably a relatively gentle precursor to what we're going to see happen over the next few weeks or months in the south of the country as the same 'wild west' approach is applied to the Abu Sayyaf problem.
jacquesm 10y ago
What an idiot. The highest government official calling for extra-judicial killing of citizens should lead to a single indictment. What's really disturbing is that this guy got voted in. 30 people in 4 days.
- johnhaltonx 10y ago
  well you're right, but as a side note multiple US presidents have authorized target killings in an undeclared war in countrys that are not part of this "war" with civil casualties .... and both got reelected .... I'm from germany, we're helping because our government does nothing in stopping the use of Rammstein Airbase as drone satellite uplink. So we are also partly responsible. :( food for thought
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    That's true but besides the point. Imagine Obama, Bush or Clinton calling on national TV for the killing of all drug addicts and pushers. > I'm from germany, we're helping because our government does nothing in stopping the use of Rammstein Airbase as drone satellite uplink. So we are also partly responsible. :( > food for thought Definitely, but totally OT.
    - herbst 10y ago
      I don't want to be euphemistically. But i've seen several public interviews of all of them where they justified killing people they claimed to be terrorists. While numbers showed that a majority are actually civil victims. You can not really compare that, but i honestly think thats even worse. At least officially the philippines only kill THEIR PEOPLE people that damage THEIR society.
    - aedron 10y ago
      It's not far from it, only they use the word 'terrorists'. Which is even more vague. And of course they kill indiscriminately whoever happens to be in a given targeted area.
    - collyw 10y ago
electic 10y ago
> During the campaign, Duterte said 100,000 people would die in his crackdown, with so many dead bodies dumped in Manila Bay that fish there would grow fat from feeding on them. This isn't a joke. This is real. What a sick bastard.
- cocotino 10y ago
  Tell that to those who are tired of not being safe in their own homes because of the drug lords. Of course it's easy to say he's sick when you live in a civilised place with police protection.
  - simonh 10y ago
    I'm sure if the entire country was heavily armed and bullets were handed out like sweets the situation would calm right down very quickly. The US arms industry would be happy to provide them with a nice bulk discount.
    - schlumpf 10y ago
      We are talking about the Philippines. The guns do come from the US. The entire country is heavily armed -- compared to most countries -- especially Mindanao. Bullets are widely available. Some people would say this is exactly why the situation is not going to calm down and certainly not quickly.
      - LyndsySimon 10y ago
        I have several firearms (here in the US) that were made in the Philippines. I'm not so sure they're not a net arms exporter.
    - ehnto 10y ago
      You seem very sure and I can't think of why you imagine this would work. Give everyone a license to kill, give everyone a gun, and after that you think everything would just sort itself out? Do you believe that only the right people will survive and then everything will be fine? Absolutely no risk of a violent degradation into chaos, looting, riots?
guelo 10y ago
Philippines is a corrupt mess at all levels of society. The electorate is desperate and has opted for a ruthless strongman after decades of disappointments. They say Mussolini made the trains run on time.
- kyledrake 10y ago
  My college history professor used to postfix that saying with "...because if they weren't, they'd shoot the conductors." Never figured out if he was joking or not, actually. It's a great example of "be careful what you wish for". Trains on time, then 30 million people die in a war you helped forge, then your country becomes destroyed. I'll happily live with the late trains. RE this crazy drug policy: very, very bad things happen when rule of law breaks down and we go into vigilante justice. Moral arguments aside, how many innocent people have died because of this already? It's an absolutely horrible idea.
- gozur88 10y ago
  Yeah, about those trains: http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp Strongmen don't usually make things more efficient by diktat. If you want to have a population that takes no risks and does the absolute minimum, just threaten to shoot them for screwing up.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > He (the president) placed trust and confidence in friends and acquaintances who are outsiders of the traditional power and social blocs. It looks like that is not about to change.
- etatoby 10y ago
  In Japan they run on time too, because if they don't, the conductors commit Seppuku (or quit the job in shame) by their own choice. So progress and a functioning society is possible without coercing or scaring people into obedience. What is needed is a cultural shift and it can only start from the schools. If you look at the Japanese school system, every other aspect of their society becomes an obvious consequence.
IIAOPSW 10y ago
Finally a politician who keeps his election promises.
kimmshibal 10y ago
Addicts in Asia are not the same as in west. They are worst. They will do anything to get drug. They will get into your house, put knife on your throat and take your money and jewelry. Police can't do anything because they are lazy and corrupt, unless there's a body.
- oblio 10y ago
  So the solution is to allow people to kill random strangers and then claim that they killed an addict? Or even better, they will kill competitors/people they don't like and then claim that they killed an addict.
  - kimmshibal 10y ago
    Why you say they will kill random stranger? They kill an addict. Prisons don't have space anymore because gov don't have budget. You are welcome to go to my country and get mug by them. Your view will change.
    - pluma 10y ago
      Addicts are humans, too. We're not talking about killing an addict in self-defense. We're talking about being explicitly told to seek out and murder addicts. Do you not see any moral problem with that?
      - kimmshibal 10y ago
        Addicts create more problem to our society here. They killed innocent people just to buy stupid drug. You can choose to kill bad people or let it slide. The latter will cause more problem to society. Prison will do nothing. This is not scandinavian country.
        Lingster 10y ago
        Might fight the causes for the addiction instead of the symptoms? Sounds like an idea? But hey, your approach worked great in Cambodia that time in the 70s..
ben_jones 10y ago
One year's pay he has a overly stocked medicine cabinet himself, all prescription of course.
smarks 10y ago
How long until Trump says something like, "He's a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what he did well? He killed drug dealers. He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were pushers. Over."
- briandear 10y ago
  Are we making the leap that Trump supports killing drug addicts? We could invoke Hillary if we want with her famous statement, "What difference does it make?" This has nothing to do with Trump or American politics. Not a single candidate in the US has called for the extra-judicial execution of drug dealers or users. Trying to draw an equivalence to Trump is absurd.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - pluma 10y ago
    As a non-American I find the Trump/Hillary rhetoric extremely weird. Many "liberals" seem to think Trump is Adolf Hitler reincarnate (which is absurd -- he's just a populist). Many "conservatives" seem to think Hillary is an "SJW" (which is equally absurd -- it's evident a lot of her more progressive stances are window dressing rather than deeply held convictions). Trump is an opportunistic buffoon, Hillary is cold and calculating. But both really just want power at any cost. The differences are not even remotely as significant as voters seem to believe. Sure, they hold opposing views, but neither of them is a saint and neither of them is going to openly do stupid drastic things like telling civilians to murder other people in the streets.
    - croon 10y ago
      I agree with everything you say, apart from a part at the end. > ... and neither of them is going to openly do stupid drastic things like telling civilians to murder other people in the streets. Sure, that's valid. But while I'm no fan of Hillary, she is, as you said, cold and calculating, which I posit as the major difference between the two. Trump is hotheaded and impulsive, and while we'll never see him (knock on wood) condone senseless killing in the street, he HAS expressed a plethora of outlandish statements (later retracted), so little out of his mouth surprises me. This does not oppose your description of the two, other than Trump can say ~anything, Hillary won't.
akerro 10y ago
Wow, think about it. On one side we have Elon Musk, who wants to build a city on Mars, make interplanetary travels quick and cheap and he's doing it, there are people who want to kill you for your skin or hair colour. There is PM of Portugal who decriminalised drugs (saying: "drugs break families and relations, and so is facebook. We're not going to ban facebook") and there is a president who kills drug addicts, people in US, UK waste 1/3 of their bought food, Venezuela doesn't have water supplies in hospitals. Truly brave new world.
- blowski 10y ago
  Such extremes have existed since the beginning of civilisation. Compare the life of a medieval king to that of his subjects.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  "The future is already here, it is just not evenly distributed." http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-he... And it likely never will be. Unfortunately.
- joe5150 10y ago
  can you explain how a city on Mars is meant to contrast with racism or...hair colorism(?).
  - akerro 10y ago
    Primitive opinions that harm random people against great futuristic ambitions that benefit everyone?
  - alanwatts 10y ago
    >You have made tremendous strides in the area of scientific and technological development. But America, as I look at you from afar, I wonder whether your moral and spiritual progress has been commensurate with your scientific progress. It seems to me that your moral progress lags behind your scientific progress. Your poet Thoreau used to talk about "improved means to an unimproved end." How often this is true. You have allowed the material means by which you live to outdistance the spiritual ends for which you live. You have allowed your mentality to outrun your morality. You have allowed your civilization to outdistance your culture. Through your scientific genius you have made of the world a neighborhood, but through your moral and spiritual genius you have failed to make of it a brotherhood. So America, I would urge you to keep your moral advances abreast with your scientific advances -Dr. King, 1956 http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentsentry/doc_pauls_letter_to_american_christians.1.html http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentse...
daktari 10y ago
Add this to the mix for this new crazy president: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-sea-hague-ruling-philippines.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-sea...
feklar 10y ago
This extreme policy also comes with an amnesty program if you surrender to police, with rehab, work and welfare. It's how he cleaned up Davao by disappearing gangsters and offering the ones left this olive branch program. China and Indonesia dissappear thousands of addicts and criminals every year too the only difference is it's not advertised in the media as a killing free for all. This guy also gave Indonesia the green light to go after Abu Sayyaf kidnappers basically inviting them to invade those autonomous islands.
- simplemath 10y ago
  Oh, China and Indonesia are doing it, and he's offering an amnesty program?? Well you've sold me! Line 'em up!
dvirsky 10y ago
This sounds like something out of a dystopian novel. I guess we're living in a world that's a mix between Idiocracy and Brave New World now.
OoTheNigerian 10y ago
As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will be sold drones that can also wipe out families in addition to the druggies. The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It's the reality. A harsh one. Of course, I will not be so "logical" if I happen to be at the receiving end of such needed reform. But hey.. it's what life is. At least, no set of drug dealers are at greater risk because of the colour of their skin. PS: I am speaking like a man living in a country where some not so nice things will be needed to be done if we are going to ever progress.
- joe5150 10y ago
  hard for me to imagine how any of that makes it right....
- zouhair 10y ago
  Hitler was also democratically elected. What will happen in the Philippines now is that anyone who any grudge with anyone will just kill that person and label him a drug dealer.
  - nindalf 10y ago
    Labeling him a drug dealer won't be easy because its difficult to prove that he dealt drugs. The logical thing to do would be to label your victim a drug user instead. Far easier to simply plant some drugs in their house, kill them and collect your medal for saving society.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > Far easier to simply plant some drugs in their house Isn't the normal procedure to just sprinkle some crack over their body?
tux3 10y ago
An attempt to kill a whole subset of the population, this is genocide, isn't it? It might be appropriate to refer this lovely gentleman to the International Criminal Court.
- kbart 10y ago
  No, it's not. Genocide has a clearly defined meaning[1]: "Genocide is the intentional action to systematically eliminate an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
  - alvarosm 10y ago
    Too bad the druggies don't have a religion so they could appeal to the UN or something.
  - mcbits 10y ago
    The "geno" literally means a race or lineage of people. If the definition can be expanded to include national and religious affiliation, then it might as well be expanded to include other social groups. It's the act that's atrocious, regardless of semantic technicalities.
- pluma 10y ago
  Sadly not. Even what the nazis did to homosexuals didn't qualify as genocide because the definition doesn't include sexual orientation (just ethnicity, religion and a few other things) -- no matter that they were targeted as an entire class of people to be exterminated.
bluejekyll 10y ago
I had this T-shirt a friend of mine gave me years ago, it simply had a silk screen on it that said "legalize murder". It was meant to be an ironic liberally extreme idea of granting freedom to do whatever you wanted. It was meant to be over the top. I can't believe I just read that it is quite literally happening.
ilitirit 10y ago
Reminds me of a conversation of I had with a Cameroonian recently. He said: "I don't understand how these drug dealers and criminals can get away with so much in your country [I'm from South Africa]. Where I'm from the soldiers will take you to the bush and execute you. That's how they brought peace to my country. The military kidnapped all the criminals and drug dealers and killed them". I don't have any way to verify this, but he seemed pretty happy about it and hoped they would do it in other countries too. edit: Wait... did I just read correctly? He gave the public permission to kill drug addicts? That's the WTF of the year.
- restalis 10y ago
  "Where I'm from the soldiers will take you to the bush and execute you. That's how they brought peace to my country. The military kidnapped all the criminals and drug dealers and killed them" So, an armed faction took out another factions or group of factions out of the picture in the most simple and grotesque way, by kidnapping (instead of public apprehension) and summary execution (instead of prosecution with a trial that gives the culprits the chance to defend themselves). This armed faction has been called "the military"? And the murderous cleansing - "peace"? And after all this someone actually seriously considers them and their deeds as an example worth following? I find this kind of thinking comparable to any of the doctrines promoting mass murdering in the name of solving something and the individuals advocating such methods to be a danger to the general public!
jister 10y ago
DISCLAIMER: I am a Filipino and I live in the Philippines When an international media writes something without much knowledge on what's really going on it blows out of proportion. Now let me give you an idea of our situation here before the Duterte presidency. HISTORY ============== The Marcoses and Aquinos and their cronies, have brought the Philippines to its knees for decades (50 years). These families are what we called the "elites" and they are actually the ones who are pulling the strings behind the scenes. They own the local media and the news that you can watch/read were all filtered. Guess what happens when an international media make our local news as the source of their publication? DRUGS ============== We are almost in a narco-state before the Duterte presidency. Just a few days ago 5 police generals were mentioned that they are the protectors of the DRUG TRIAD here in the Philippines. It was also mentioned that 23 mayors are also linked to the triad and this is just in the 2nd week of Duterte's presidency. It is also rumored that people linked to drugs goes way up the ranks -- senators, justice, congressmen, etc. President Duterte had a list of people involved and the same list were given to the former President Aquino but he did nothing. Today, a few thousands drug addicts/pushers surrendered. Drug addicts who turn themselves in are given rehabilitation and jail time for pushers. Hundred were taken out by the police because they fought back. One even thrown a grenade! President Durterte emphasized a lot of times that everybody should follow the law. Police should operate within the bounds of the law but I guess this wasn't mentioned every time a foreigner write about him. KILLING IS WRONG! But, we live in a different and a more challenging world than the rest of you. What is white for you may be gray for us. WATCH THIS: ============== https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUVA6GDinvM&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUVA6GDinvM&feature=youtu.be
- mih 10y ago
  I see a lot of negative press about Duterte in the western media. Talking to Filipino friends, I have quite the opposite impression that mirrors your sentiments - that people are actually hopeful, a refreshing change after decades of corruption. It also appears that Duterte favors a more pragmatic stance on the Spratlys/South China sea disputes rather than toeing the western line which in the long term is better for the region. You do not want to antagonize China, despite the assurances of USA that they have your back (only as long as realpolitik affords it). Something that the average foreigner fails to comprehend.
thesehands 10y ago
So both kill demand as well as supply to eradicate the market? If they were looking for an extreme response why not have the government take a monopoly supplier position, nationalise the army to take over the production?
e19293001 10y ago
Meanwhile on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4sj7q2/body_count_rises_as_new_philippines_president/ https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4sj7q2/body_coun...
alexmingoia 10y ago
Let's not forget Thailand killed over 2,500 people suspected of drug use or dealing, and one investigation found no connection with drugs in half of these deaths. [1] 1. http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30057578 http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=300...
geomark 10y ago
A major problem is that since many of the police are involved in the drug trade it becomes open season on their adversaries. Same thing happened in Thailand when Thaksin first because prime minister and declared open war on drug dealers. There were 2,500 extra-judicial killings, many of which were retaliation for drug deals gone bad and some just revenge killings of people who weren't even involved in the drug trade. There's bound to be a lot of the same thing in the Philippines.
seesomesense 10y ago
Just call them Isis inspired terrorists and the USA will give you free drones and shiny new guns to kill them with.
aaron695 10y ago
It's concerning that the reddit conversation seems more measured than HN on this issue (5 hour mark, 12:00 UTC) What up HN? Why does someone saying I live there get them upvotes without logical remarks?
- nxzero 10y ago
  Missing the link to said reasoning or said reasoning from you. The top comment reflects the heart of the issue. Being logical about it, reasoning your will on others, etc. - won't change the world - that's unreasonable.
coldcode 10y ago
I believe the article headline should be "drug dealers" not "drug addicts".
- nxzero 10y ago
  >> FROM THE STORY: Speaking to a crowd of 500 in a Manila slum, Duterte said: “If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful.”
- waterphone 10y ago
  It's very definitely drug users/addicts as well.
noja 10y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg
alanwatts 10y ago
How do we know Duterte isn't working with the Cartels like so many others in his position? If true, this would be a great plan to consolidate the supply chain by efficiently/extrajudicially killing off the competition while increasing profits. Economics 101: increased risk = increased reward Reminiscent of the 1986 drug laws[1] in the US increasing punishments by 100 fold while at the same time US officials were helping import billions of dollars of cocaine[2] to help fund Nicaraguan death squads[3]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986 [2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Freeway"_Rick_Ross https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Freeway"_Rick_Ross [3]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North
fucking_tragedy 10y ago
Oh hey, a discussion that can't be nullified by Godwin's law. Good job, Philippines.

203 points by gedrap 10y ago

Is this a joke? Surely something so utterly stupid can't be real. This man just gave the public free rein to murder and get away with it. Jesus this planet is insane.

jasonjei 10y ago
I thought the same. Just a few weekends ago that silly Purge movie came out. Little did I know reality would follow.
yelnatz 10y ago
Nope, it's not a joke. This guy just got elected. He was mayor before this, and that's how he ran his city. He had secret death squads that cleaned the streets and "transformed" his city to the 5th safest city in the world. [0] [0]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/125132/davao-city-improves-to-5th-in-ranking-of-worlds-safest-cities http://globalnation.inquirer.net/125132/davao-city-improves-...
- rurban 10y ago
  Sounds like Mexico then. https://vimeo.com/18768132 https://vimeo.com/18768132
- abalone 10y ago
  That data is crowdsourced and methodologically questionable. Davao actually has a high murder and rape rate.[1] [1] http://m.gulfnews.com/news/asia/philippines/one-crime-every-80-minutes-in-davao-city-1.1660705 http://m.gulfnews.com/news/asia/philippines/one-crime-every-...
- calgoo 10y ago
  Yea, my mother i law also says that Barcelona, Spain was really safe at night during the dictatorship, with military police on every corner. That does not make it right, or even a good thing. Safety for the sake of safety is not a solution.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
geowwy 10y ago
Seems crazy but people of the Philippines knew what they were voting for. This is exactly what he did when he was mayor of Davao: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte#Davao_City_mayor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte#Davao_City_may... To play devil's advocate: Drugs and the criminal networks supported by drugs are a massive problem in the Philippines. Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it, but this is a solution that works, even if it does offend our first world sensibilities.
- teej 10y ago
  Did you honestly just justify genocide?
  - geowwy 10y ago
    Nope. Read again.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it Yes, so let's go kill a bunch of people, instead of reforming the police force.
  - calgoo 10y ago
    So can we kill corrupt cops as well then? I mean if we are going to go full circle, lets just kill everyone we dont agree with. That will solve all our issues! /s
    - rbanffy 10y ago
      Of course, the people with guns will kill the people who doesn't have guns. Since drug dealers and drug users never have guns, it's easy.
- 1ris 10y ago
  Killing suspects on sight does offend my first world sensibilities as it offends anybody with a spark of reason and anybody who gasp the concept of moral. A state that does kill random citizens has no legitimacy. states are formed by individuals in order to ensure they are not subject to random violence or violation of their rights. If a state can't or does not want to guarantee that nobody has any reason to respect the state. If police men kill random people because they think they deal drugs, the ordinary citizen has every right to kill police men because they think the police thinks they deal drugs. (or their fellow country men) In such a state of affairs, what's the purpose of a state? What's it's legitimacy? It doesn't have any. A complete lack of any institutions and anarchy would protect everybodys rights better.
Bakary 10y ago
It's actually not that insane from the perspective of a local voter who has nothing to lose and has a miserable crime-ridden existence. It's not qualitatively different from disenfranchised workers voting for Trump. It's the nuclear option for people who have no way to profit from the existing system. It just so happens that life is much, much easier in the US so there is no need to consider actual violence when thinking about going nuclear.
- simplemath 10y ago
  No, it's still insane.
  - vixen99 10y ago
    Using the word 'insane' does not contribute to the discussion in this context.
  - sdoering 10y ago
    Calling it insanity is not only overly dismissive and chauvinistic, but also not helping in any way furthering understanding. If you want to solve a problem you have to understand it first and foremost. Just calling it insanity is therefore not only not helpful, but harmful as others might take up that world view and stop caring for a real solution. I do not have a solution, but am trying to understand how people can be so miserable (be it workers in US voting for Trump, German people voting AfD or people in the Philippines seeing this as a viable option/solution to their problem, when it probably even isn't such). I can understand being desperate and taking desperate measures. But killing? I am so not able to understand it - even while I am trying to find rational reasons/explanations.
- tankenmate 10y ago
  The most dangerous person in the room is the one with nothing to lose.
- joe5150 10y ago
  this is not remotely like voting for Trump. and it doesn't "so happen" that life is easier in countries with functioning (if deeply flawed) justice systems than it is in ones where corruption and vigilantism rule; there are pretty good reasons for why that is.

FreedomToCreate 10y ago

Hypocrites in powerful positions are more dangerous than even incompetent leaders. There is no way this guy does not have a history of drug use.

restalis 10y ago
The more I think about, the more I get inclined to believe that this guy has indeed to be on some drugs himself in order to do what he just did. Or that others need drugs to get in a state of thought in which this president happens to persist naturally due to madness!

cyberferret 10y ago

Truly, we live in a world gone mad... Where will this end? In a few years, shooting jay walkers will be the norm...

rimantas 10y ago
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/12/the_world_is_not_falling_apart_the_trend_lines_reveal_an_increasingly_peaceful.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2...
- cyberferret 10y ago
  I am reassured.... carry on world... (You do notice that most of the graphs lower down the page have a sharp uptick towards the far right ?!? especially "Violent Victimisation at School", "Prevalence of Mass Killings", "Rate of Death in Genocides and Other Killings", "Wars > 1000 Deaths/Year" whilst things like "Rape and Sexual Assault", "Physical Abuse", "Sexual Abuse" show a small uptrend)
- rhaps0dy 10y ago
  The "democracy vs autocracy" graph seems disingenuous, as it shows the _sum_ of scores and not the mean. If the number of democracies has been increasing, the graph may show the same trend it shows without the democracies actually being better. And the biggest shift in the graph happens, unsurprisingly, when the USSR falls, which switches the score of all its countries from one side to the other.
- pluma 10y ago
  To summarize most of these graphs: there's currently a significant increase in bad things, but overall there has been a downward trend for decades.

cgs1019 10y ago

The link cites a vice article that cites a guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-urges-people-to-kill-drug-addicts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/philippines-pr...

FreedomToCreate 10y ago
https://xkcd.com/978/ https://xkcd.com/978/
- lordnacho 10y ago
  http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/how-a-raccoon-became-an-aardvark http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/how-a-raccoon-became-...

faklco 10y ago

Even more frightening is how widely supported Duterte and his death squads are in the Philippines. He has strong ties to the Davao Death Squad which operated whilst he was mayor of Davao City, and the Philippino public largely supports the executions.

prawn 10y ago
I think that's the most concerning part of this (and other concerning but slightly less insane potential leaders around the world) - that the public can be so easily convinced that this is a reasonable choice. Is it that the craziest plans standout against the two regular options? Or that the regular options hedge their bets and don't appear to adequately address issues concerning the masses?
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Very often, the "conventional" options in a democratic republic end up representing competing visions of how to address the issues that matter most to elites (not necessarily the upper class alone, but the upper and middle classes -- which together are still usually a minority of the population -- and maybe the upper end of the working class), who in normal times are often the vast majority of participation in the political system. They often have less contact with the bulk of the working class (including the nonworking poor) and their concerns, which when things get especially intolerable for that class, and their immediate interests get most divergent from the elites, opens up a big opportunity for unconventional populist alternatives (often including exploitive totalitarian demagogues, though positive reform-oriented uplifting populism also happens at times, sometimes competing with the other kind.)

abpavel 10y ago

So, I can kill anyone and claim they were an addict? Who is going to prove me otherwise? It's dissapointing that people see this as something to do with drugs, while in reality it's just a green light for a killing frenzy.

xerophyte12932 10y ago
That was my first thought as well, but then I realized normal people aren't just waiting with stow away guns waiting for the day they can go on a killing frenzy. The type who are like that are possibly connected to drug as wells (as either addicts or part of the criminal machine) which means they are more likely to go into hiding lest they be killed themselves. Yes, maybe some murderers will slip under the radar, but the numbers so far look good. Only 30 deaths over the country (that's no killing frenzy) and 952 people have surrendered to the authorities. I'd say it's working
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- waterphone 10y ago
  30 deaths in 4 days.
- restalis 10y ago
  "then I realized normal people aren't just waiting with stow away guns waiting for the day they can go on a killing frenzy" No, it seems that unknowingly, the "normal people" were waiting for the people with guns, and all of them together were waiting the right time, which is now! "Only 30 deaths over the country (that's no killing frenzy) and 952 people have surrendered to the authorities. I'd say it's working" Who gives you the figures? As I understand, the president's opposing figures, including journalists, were targets for some time already! ...for being drug dealers or addicts, allegedly. It's safe to assume that the ones that left to live have to really impress the president with their reporting.

dkarapetyan 10y ago

How did we collectively let this happen? Yes, I'm sitting on a very comfy armchair while jerking off a unicorn so that the galley of VCs can have their fill of unicorn jizz.

sctb 10y ago
Please don't do this.

jmspring 10y ago

Not directly related to Phillipines, but an actual Bay Area addict case question...And honestly, I'm not sure of individuals current state (no arrest records)... Young female from out of area (some state) comes (homeless) to a town known for downward spirals. Arrested 20+ times over 2 years, mainly around meth addiction, but seriously mental. Local people reach out to family/friends of said individual via social media expressing concern, no response. Individual continues to flail. County (in California) refuses to adopt Laura's Law -- incarnation of adults with repeat mental issues -- lack of budget. Who is responsible for the individual and why? Addicts need a will to want to recover. Some are hell bent on escape regardless. What is the right social/safety net? Relevance to post: many people in this community and similar are tired of people throwing their life away and expecting a safety net.

ianai 10y ago
Maybe you accept the person needs 20 mg (just a number) of meth to get through a day and put them up in a simple room and board situation. Toss in routine mental help. Something where the society provides the person with a means to live without becoming desperate for a fix.
deanCommie 10y ago
Society. Society is responsible. The fact that people in the richest country in the world are still having this debate is appalling to Canadians and Western Europeans. Americans will be the last on this ship, but part of living in a prosperous 21st century society means giving up some liberty (in the form of taxes, limited access to guns, suffering additional government bureaucracy) for the knowledge that getting sick should never be a death sentence regardless of your income level. Neither should poverty. Universal Basic Income WILL happen. After that, anyone who is still unable to provide for themselves and stays homeless needs medical support beyond financial support, because the incidence of mental health issues amongst the homeless is huge. Finally, addiction should be treated like a health issue also. Now you can say that "it's not fair" that some people will end up pulling more from the collective pot of funds than others. But that's society. It's not about fairness. It's about every life being worth something, and having the potential to put something back into society after their recovery.

jmspring 10y ago

Jedd 10y ago

This is probably a relatively gentle precursor to what we're going to see happen over the next few weeks or months in the south of the country as the same 'wild west' approach is applied to the Abu Sayyaf problem.

jacquesm 10y ago

What an idiot. The highest government official calling for extra-judicial killing of citizens should lead to a single indictment. What's really disturbing is that this guy got voted in. 30 people in 4 days.

johnhaltonx 10y ago
well you're right, but as a side note multiple US presidents have authorized target killings in an undeclared war in countrys that are not part of this "war" with civil casualties .... and both got reelected .... I'm from germany, we're helping because our government does nothing in stopping the use of Rammstein Airbase as drone satellite uplink. So we are also partly responsible. :( food for thought
- jacquesm 10y ago
  That's true but besides the point. Imagine Obama, Bush or Clinton calling on national TV for the killing of all drug addicts and pushers. > I'm from germany, we're helping because our government does nothing in stopping the use of Rammstein Airbase as drone satellite uplink. So we are also partly responsible. :( > food for thought Definitely, but totally OT.
  - herbst 10y ago
    I don't want to be euphemistically. But i've seen several public interviews of all of them where they justified killing people they claimed to be terrorists. While numbers showed that a majority are actually civil victims. You can not really compare that, but i honestly think thats even worse. At least officially the philippines only kill THEIR PEOPLE people that damage THEIR society.
  - aedron 10y ago
    It's not far from it, only they use the word 'terrorists'. Which is even more vague. And of course they kill indiscriminately whoever happens to be in a given targeted area.
  - collyw 10y ago

electic 10y ago

> During the campaign, Duterte said 100,000 people would die in his crackdown, with so many dead bodies dumped in Manila Bay that fish there would grow fat from feeding on them. This isn't a joke. This is real. What a sick bastard.

cocotino 10y ago
Tell that to those who are tired of not being safe in their own homes because of the drug lords. Of course it's easy to say he's sick when you live in a civilised place with police protection.
- simonh 10y ago
  I'm sure if the entire country was heavily armed and bullets were handed out like sweets the situation would calm right down very quickly. The US arms industry would be happy to provide them with a nice bulk discount.
  - schlumpf 10y ago
    We are talking about the Philippines. The guns do come from the US. The entire country is heavily armed -- compared to most countries -- especially Mindanao. Bullets are widely available. Some people would say this is exactly why the situation is not going to calm down and certainly not quickly.
    - LyndsySimon 10y ago
      I have several firearms (here in the US) that were made in the Philippines. I'm not so sure they're not a net arms exporter.
  - ehnto 10y ago
    You seem very sure and I can't think of why you imagine this would work. Give everyone a license to kill, give everyone a gun, and after that you think everything would just sort itself out? Do you believe that only the right people will survive and then everything will be fine? Absolutely no risk of a violent degradation into chaos, looting, riots?

guelo 10y ago

Philippines is a corrupt mess at all levels of society. The electorate is desperate and has opted for a ruthless strongman after decades of disappointments. They say Mussolini made the trains run on time.

kyledrake 10y ago
My college history professor used to postfix that saying with "...because if they weren't, they'd shoot the conductors." Never figured out if he was joking or not, actually. It's a great example of "be careful what you wish for". Trains on time, then 30 million people die in a war you helped forge, then your country becomes destroyed. I'll happily live with the late trains. RE this crazy drug policy: very, very bad things happen when rule of law breaks down and we go into vigilante justice. Moral arguments aside, how many innocent people have died because of this already? It's an absolutely horrible idea.
gozur88 10y ago
Yeah, about those trains: http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp Strongmen don't usually make things more efficient by diktat. If you want to have a population that takes no risks and does the absolute minimum, just threaten to shoot them for screwing up.
jacquesm 10y ago
> He (the president) placed trust and confidence in friends and acquaintances who are outsiders of the traditional power and social blocs. It looks like that is not about to change.
etatoby 10y ago
In Japan they run on time too, because if they don't, the conductors commit Seppuku (or quit the job in shame) by their own choice. So progress and a functioning society is possible without coercing or scaring people into obedience. What is needed is a cultural shift and it can only start from the schools. If you look at the Japanese school system, every other aspect of their society becomes an obvious consequence.

IIAOPSW 10y ago

Finally a politician who keeps his election promises.

kimmshibal 10y ago

Addicts in Asia are not the same as in west. They are worst. They will do anything to get drug. They will get into your house, put knife on your throat and take your money and jewelry. Police can't do anything because they are lazy and corrupt, unless there's a body.

oblio 10y ago
So the solution is to allow people to kill random strangers and then claim that they killed an addict? Or even better, they will kill competitors/people they don't like and then claim that they killed an addict.
- kimmshibal 10y ago
  Why you say they will kill random stranger? They kill an addict. Prisons don't have space anymore because gov don't have budget. You are welcome to go to my country and get mug by them. Your view will change.
  - pluma 10y ago
    Addicts are humans, too. We're not talking about killing an addict in self-defense. We're talking about being explicitly told to seek out and murder addicts. Do you not see any moral problem with that?
    - kimmshibal 10y ago
      Addicts create more problem to our society here. They killed innocent people just to buy stupid drug. You can choose to kill bad people or let it slide. The latter will cause more problem to society. Prison will do nothing. This is not scandinavian country.
      - Lingster 10y ago
        Might fight the causes for the addiction instead of the symptoms? Sounds like an idea? But hey, your approach worked great in Cambodia that time in the 70s..

ben_jones 10y ago

One year's pay he has a overly stocked medicine cabinet himself, all prescription of course.

smarks 10y ago

How long until Trump says something like, "He's a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what he did well? He killed drug dealers. He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were pushers. Over."

briandear 10y ago
Are we making the leap that Trump supports killing drug addicts? We could invoke Hillary if we want with her famous statement, "What difference does it make?" This has nothing to do with Trump or American politics. Not a single candidate in the US has called for the extra-judicial execution of drug dealers or users. Trying to draw an equivalence to Trump is absurd.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- pluma 10y ago
  As a non-American I find the Trump/Hillary rhetoric extremely weird. Many "liberals" seem to think Trump is Adolf Hitler reincarnate (which is absurd -- he's just a populist). Many "conservatives" seem to think Hillary is an "SJW" (which is equally absurd -- it's evident a lot of her more progressive stances are window dressing rather than deeply held convictions). Trump is an opportunistic buffoon, Hillary is cold and calculating. But both really just want power at any cost. The differences are not even remotely as significant as voters seem to believe. Sure, they hold opposing views, but neither of them is a saint and neither of them is going to openly do stupid drastic things like telling civilians to murder other people in the streets.
  - croon 10y ago
    I agree with everything you say, apart from a part at the end. > ... and neither of them is going to openly do stupid drastic things like telling civilians to murder other people in the streets. Sure, that's valid. But while I'm no fan of Hillary, she is, as you said, cold and calculating, which I posit as the major difference between the two. Trump is hotheaded and impulsive, and while we'll never see him (knock on wood) condone senseless killing in the street, he HAS expressed a plethora of outlandish statements (later retracted), so little out of his mouth surprises me. This does not oppose your description of the two, other than Trump can say ~anything, Hillary won't.

akerro 10y ago

Wow, think about it. On one side we have Elon Musk, who wants to build a city on Mars, make interplanetary travels quick and cheap and he's doing it, there are people who want to kill you for your skin or hair colour. There is PM of Portugal who decriminalised drugs (saying: "drugs break families and relations, and so is facebook. We're not going to ban facebook") and there is a president who kills drug addicts, people in US, UK waste 1/3 of their bought food, Venezuela doesn't have water supplies in hospitals. Truly brave new world.

blowski 10y ago
Such extremes have existed since the beginning of civilisation. Compare the life of a medieval king to that of his subjects.
jacquesm 10y ago
"The future is already here, it is just not evenly distributed." http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-he... And it likely never will be. Unfortunately.
joe5150 10y ago
can you explain how a city on Mars is meant to contrast with racism or...hair colorism(?).
- akerro 10y ago
  Primitive opinions that harm random people against great futuristic ambitions that benefit everyone?
- alanwatts 10y ago
  >You have made tremendous strides in the area of scientific and technological development. But America, as I look at you from afar, I wonder whether your moral and spiritual progress has been commensurate with your scientific progress. It seems to me that your moral progress lags behind your scientific progress. Your poet Thoreau used to talk about "improved means to an unimproved end." How often this is true. You have allowed the material means by which you live to outdistance the spiritual ends for which you live. You have allowed your mentality to outrun your morality. You have allowed your civilization to outdistance your culture. Through your scientific genius you have made of the world a neighborhood, but through your moral and spiritual genius you have failed to make of it a brotherhood. So America, I would urge you to keep your moral advances abreast with your scientific advances -Dr. King, 1956 http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentsentry/doc_pauls_letter_to_american_christians.1.html http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/documentse...

daktari 10y ago

Add this to the mix for this new crazy president: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-sea-hague-ruling-philippines.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-sea...

feklar 10y ago

This extreme policy also comes with an amnesty program if you surrender to police, with rehab, work and welfare. It's how he cleaned up Davao by disappearing gangsters and offering the ones left this olive branch program. China and Indonesia dissappear thousands of addicts and criminals every year too the only difference is it's not advertised in the media as a killing free for all. This guy also gave Indonesia the green light to go after Abu Sayyaf kidnappers basically inviting them to invade those autonomous islands.

simplemath 10y ago
Oh, China and Indonesia are doing it, and he's offering an amnesty program?? Well you've sold me! Line 'em up!

dvirsky 10y ago

This sounds like something out of a dystopian novel. I guess we're living in a world that's a mix between Idiocracy and Brave New World now.

OoTheNigerian 10y ago

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will be sold drones that can also wipe out families in addition to the druggies. The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It's the reality. A harsh one. Of course, I will not be so "logical" if I happen to be at the receiving end of such needed reform. But hey.. it's what life is. At least, no set of drug dealers are at greater risk because of the colour of their skin. PS: I am speaking like a man living in a country where some not so nice things will be needed to be done if we are going to ever progress.

joe5150 10y ago
hard for me to imagine how any of that makes it right....
zouhair 10y ago
Hitler was also democratically elected. What will happen in the Philippines now is that anyone who any grudge with anyone will just kill that person and label him a drug dealer.
- nindalf 10y ago
  Labeling him a drug dealer won't be easy because its difficult to prove that he dealt drugs. The logical thing to do would be to label your victim a drug user instead. Far easier to simply plant some drugs in their house, kill them and collect your medal for saving society.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > Far easier to simply plant some drugs in their house Isn't the normal procedure to just sprinkle some crack over their body?

tux3 10y ago

An attempt to kill a whole subset of the population, this is genocide, isn't it? It might be appropriate to refer this lovely gentleman to the International Criminal Court.

kbart 10y ago
No, it's not. Genocide has a clearly defined meaning[1]: "Genocide is the intentional action to systematically eliminate an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group" 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
- alvarosm 10y ago
  Too bad the druggies don't have a religion so they could appeal to the UN or something.
- mcbits 10y ago
  The "geno" literally means a race or lineage of people. If the definition can be expanded to include national and religious affiliation, then it might as well be expanded to include other social groups. It's the act that's atrocious, regardless of semantic technicalities.
pluma 10y ago
Sadly not. Even what the nazis did to homosexuals didn't qualify as genocide because the definition doesn't include sexual orientation (just ethnicity, religion and a few other things) -- no matter that they were targeted as an entire class of people to be exterminated.

bluejekyll 10y ago

I had this T-shirt a friend of mine gave me years ago, it simply had a silk screen on it that said "legalize murder". It was meant to be an ironic liberally extreme idea of granting freedom to do whatever you wanted. It was meant to be over the top. I can't believe I just read that it is quite literally happening.

ilitirit 10y ago

Reminds me of a conversation of I had with a Cameroonian recently. He said: "I don't understand how these drug dealers and criminals can get away with so much in your country [I'm from South Africa]. Where I'm from the soldiers will take you to the bush and execute you. That's how they brought peace to my country. The military kidnapped all the criminals and drug dealers and killed them". I don't have any way to verify this, but he seemed pretty happy about it and hoped they would do it in other countries too. edit: Wait... did I just read correctly? He gave the public permission to kill drug addicts? That's the WTF of the year.

restalis 10y ago
"Where I'm from the soldiers will take you to the bush and execute you. That's how they brought peace to my country. The military kidnapped all the criminals and drug dealers and killed them" So, an armed faction took out another factions or group of factions out of the picture in the most simple and grotesque way, by kidnapping (instead of public apprehension) and summary execution (instead of prosecution with a trial that gives the culprits the chance to defend themselves). This armed faction has been called "the military"? And the murderous cleansing - "peace"? And after all this someone actually seriously considers them and their deeds as an example worth following? I find this kind of thinking comparable to any of the doctrines promoting mass murdering in the name of solving something and the individuals advocating such methods to be a danger to the general public!

jister 10y ago

DISCLAIMER: I am a Filipino and I live in the Philippines When an international media writes something without much knowledge on what's really going on it blows out of proportion. Now let me give you an idea of our situation here before the Duterte presidency. HISTORY ============== The Marcoses and Aquinos and their cronies, have brought the Philippines to its knees for decades (50 years). These families are what we called the "elites" and they are actually the ones who are pulling the strings behind the scenes. They own the local media and the news that you can watch/read were all filtered. Guess what happens when an international media make our local news as the source of their publication? DRUGS ============== We are almost in a narco-state before the Duterte presidency. Just a few days ago 5 police generals were mentioned that they are the protectors of the DRUG TRIAD here in the Philippines. It was also mentioned that 23 mayors are also linked to the triad and this is just in the 2nd week of Duterte's presidency. It is also rumored that people linked to drugs goes way up the ranks -- senators, justice, congressmen, etc. President Duterte had a list of people involved and the same list were given to the former President Aquino but he did nothing. Today, a few thousands drug addicts/pushers surrendered. Drug addicts who turn themselves in are given rehabilitation and jail time for pushers. Hundred were taken out by the police because they fought back. One even thrown a grenade! President Durterte emphasized a lot of times that everybody should follow the law. Police should operate within the bounds of the law but I guess this wasn't mentioned every time a foreigner write about him. KILLING IS WRONG! But, we live in a different and a more challenging world than the rest of you. What is white for you may be gray for us. WATCH THIS: ============== https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUVA6GDinvM&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUVA6GDinvM&feature=youtu.be

mih 10y ago
I see a lot of negative press about Duterte in the western media. Talking to Filipino friends, I have quite the opposite impression that mirrors your sentiments - that people are actually hopeful, a refreshing change after decades of corruption. It also appears that Duterte favors a more pragmatic stance on the Spratlys/South China sea disputes rather than toeing the western line which in the long term is better for the region. You do not want to antagonize China, despite the assurances of USA that they have your back (only as long as realpolitik affords it). Something that the average foreigner fails to comprehend.

thesehands 10y ago

So both kill demand as well as supply to eradicate the market? If they were looking for an extreme response why not have the government take a monopoly supplier position, nationalise the army to take over the production?

e19293001 10y ago

Meanwhile on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4sj7q2/body_count_rises_as_new_philippines_president/ https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4sj7q2/body_coun...

alexmingoia 10y ago

Let's not forget Thailand killed over 2,500 people suspected of drug use or dealing, and one investigation found no connection with drugs in half of these deaths. [1] 1. http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30057578 http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=300...

geomark 10y ago

A major problem is that since many of the police are involved in the drug trade it becomes open season on their adversaries. Same thing happened in Thailand when Thaksin first because prime minister and declared open war on drug dealers. There were 2,500 extra-judicial killings, many of which were retaliation for drug deals gone bad and some just revenge killings of people who weren't even involved in the drug trade. There's bound to be a lot of the same thing in the Philippines.

seesomesense 10y ago

Just call them Isis inspired terrorists and the USA will give you free drones and shiny new guns to kill them with.

aaron695 10y ago

It's concerning that the reddit conversation seems more measured than HN on this issue (5 hour mark, 12:00 UTC) What up HN? Why does someone saying I live there get them upvotes without logical remarks?

nxzero 10y ago
Missing the link to said reasoning or said reasoning from you. The top comment reflects the heart of the issue. Being logical about it, reasoning your will on others, etc. - won't change the world - that's unreasonable.

coldcode 10y ago

I believe the article headline should be "drug dealers" not "drug addicts".

nxzero 10y ago
>> FROM THE STORY: Speaking to a crowd of 500 in a Manila slum, Duterte said: “If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful.”
waterphone 10y ago
It's very definitely drug users/addicts as well.

noja 10y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg

alanwatts 10y ago

How do we know Duterte isn't working with the Cartels like so many others in his position? If true, this would be a great plan to consolidate the supply chain by efficiently/extrajudicially killing off the competition while increasing profits. Economics 101: increased risk = increased reward Reminiscent of the 1986 drug laws[1] in the US increasing punishments by 100 fold while at the same time US officials were helping import billions of dollars of cocaine[2] to help fund Nicaraguan death squads[3]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986 [2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Freeway"_Rick_Ross https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Freeway"_Rick_Ross [3]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North

fucking_tragedy 10y ago

Oh hey, a discussion that can't be nullified by Godwin's law. Good job, Philippines.