13 ms·

Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid

144 points by wtbob 10y ago

stuaxo 10y ago
I've been needing to replace my phone for a while, and been holding out for an iphone 7. If it doesn't have a headphone socket I will just get something else.
- doktrin 10y ago
  Ditto. I've been using Android since my iPhone 4s shattered, and was thinking about moving back to iOS - if they remove the headphone jack there's no way that's happening.
ericlamb89 10y ago
it's going to be fine guys
ninedays 10y ago
Changing any connector you had in place for a decade or more is user-hostile and stupid and yet it's been done for decades. Don't worry, we'll all be fine.
bsimpson 10y ago
John Gruber's response (http://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives http://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_ne... ): > Should the analog headphone jack remain on our devices forever? If you think so, you can stop reading. What's the advantage to removing the headphone jack? Is the jack some sort of bottleneck to sound quality that nobody noticed until now? I really don't see a benefit in removing the headphone jack, now or anytime in the foreseeable future.
- kbart 10y ago
  It's too big (at least according to those "slim" worshiping designers).
  - creshal 10y ago
    Then use the standardized 2.5mm analog audio plug that was designed for space-constrained environments.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Yes, but if you're going to change it, might as well go full on. Why use a same-era technology? Yes, it will be thin too, but it will also have the same issues as going for a digital interface (annoying people with the change etc) -- but without any of its advanced capabilities (e.g. for device control).
  - mr_sturd 10y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11953691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11953691 I'll point you in the direction of bsimpson's post, just above.
- elthran 10y ago
  I think the argument that is made is that it's stopping phones becoming thinner - which looking at the size of the jack on my Nexus 5X, I can believe. However, personally, I'll live with a thicker phone if it means I can have a larger capacity battery, let alone a 3.5mm jack
  - TheGirondin 10y ago
    Phones have gotten thin enough. I would rather have more battery capacity and more drop/screen durability.
    - maccard 10y ago
      Actions speak louder than words. People continue to say they want more durable phones and longer battery life, but continue to buy thinner and shinier phones.
      - SeanBoocock 10y ago
        I'd be interested to hear and read about examples of this being tested in the market. Have consumers been presented with a choice between phone thinness and battery life on the otherwise same phone hardware?
        trowawee 10y ago
        http://www.wired.com/2012/04/why-is-htc-choosing-phone-thinness-over-battery-life/ http://www.wired.com/2012/04/why-is-htc-choosing-phone-thinn... > According to Kilburn, HTC’s consumer research shows people prefer thin smartphones — between 8 mm and 10 mm thick — as opposed to thicker devices with longer battery life. One data point, but that's what HTC's claiming their customer research shows, and Apple's trends suggest their internal data points the same way.
        CaptSpify 10y ago
        Maybe I missed it in the article, but it's interesting to me that people aren't give 2 versions of the same device to choose from. That's like saying people prefer the color blue, because they keep buying blue Accords over red Civics. There's clearly more than the one option going into the choice here.
- rplst8 10y ago
  Comparing the 3.5 mm audio jack to the floppy drive is ridiculous. The jack has become far, far, more ubiquitous than the floppy drive. Additionally, the things that use the jack are often of higher quality and not disposible like a floppy disk was. And this ignores the fact that the floppy disk/drive was technologically usurped by other removable storage formats. The 3.5 mm jack still delivers the absolute best sound quality compared to the other options available on a smart phone. Most, if not all, of the other solutions will be a step backward.
  - SloopJon 10y ago
    Yeah, this is amazing apologism, even for Gruber. "And in five years we’ll look at analog headphone jacks the way we look at all the other legacy ports we’ve abandoned." In five years, there are going to a lot of crappy Lightning earbuds in drawers and landfills.
    - smt88 10y ago
      > look at all the other legacy ports we’ve abandoned I miss a lot of those ports. A lot of people do. Fumbling around the office for an Apple-compatible video cable is a relatively frequent event, in my experience.
      - mrob 10y ago
        I still have an old fashioned parallel port (via PCI card) on my PC, because there's no other option for convenient and low-latency GPIO. And I don't remember old fashioned serial ports needing special drivers that would brick unapproved hardware, like some modern FTDI USB serial adaptors did. "Legacy" ports are simple and reliable. Let's not abandon the simple and reliable 3.5mm headphone port.
        kale 10y ago
        This is a great point. I am gearing up to use a Raspberry Pi in a project for GPIO. It doesn't have to be low-powered necessarily, but the abandonment of the parallel port means that getting GPIO on a PC is more difficult.
- cr1895 10y ago
  I use higher impedance headphones that the built-in amplifier doesn't power well enough. Therefore I use a separate amp/DAC that feeds through usb from my iPhone. But this certainly describes a very limited subset of people who listen to music through headphones, and even though I don't use it much I wouldn't like to see the analog jack go away.
- acqq 10y ago
  > If you think so, you can stop reading. I didn't and really there are no arguments there why would it be better for anybody but Apple. The premise of the article is "once it's accepted that the analog jack must go, let's just write whatever." It doesn't even discuss what the advantage for Apple should be. Which would make clearer why it's not for anybody else.
- CaptainZapp 10y ago
  Should the analog headphone jack remain on our devices forever? If you think so, you can stop reading. Good! Saves me the read.
- haddr 10y ago
  Floppy disk is a straw man argument. But hey, Apple can now impose the change from the position of power. And they have Beats who will follow this change...
- doktrin 10y ago
  > John Gruber's response Does this guy ever write critically about Apple? I've come across his pieces over the years, and he honestly always comes across like a zealous ideologue.
  - jccc 10y ago
    Yeah, pretty much never: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7013002 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7013002
    - doktrin 10y ago
      As mentioned, I'm not a regular reader of his, so the fact that I've somehow missed 3 pieces of his published 3+ years ago shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Would you feel less defensive if I just called him a biased partisan instead of using an absolute-sounding word like "ever"?
      - jccc 10y ago
        I think Gruber has become more and more captured by the beat he covers. I really hate it when he uses language only Apple pitch-folk use, like "with iPhone" or "on iPad." I think he's lost more of his objectivity than perhaps he himself realizes. What I object to is the instant dismissal of every Gruber article by people who can't see nuance but only black and white. It's simply not true that he is as partisan and in-the-tank for Apple as many people here think he is. And the point is that this degrades our ability to have meaningful discussion. > Would you feel less defensive [...] Making assumptions about people's biases is exactly my objection about the reflex reaction many HN commenters have toward Gruber.
        doktrin 10y ago
        > What I object to is the instant dismissal of every Gruber article by people who can't see nuance but only black and white. It's simply not true that he is as partisan and in-the-tank for Apple as many people here think he is. Sounds fair enough, but yet it still seems reasonable to mistrust Gruber's opinions on the basis of him having established a pattern of supporting Apple. The fact that he doesn't literally always come to their defense isn't really all that much of a mitigating factor, since his editorial integrity is already suspect. > Making assumptions about people's biases is exactly my objection about the reflex reaction many HN commenters have toward Gruber. I make decisions based on available information. Your post came across as derisive and snarky.
- wtbob 10y ago
  If Apple announced that they are adding a new steel-spike-through-the-eye feature, John Gruber would be there to patiently explain how this could be really useful, and how it doesn't kill you unless you actually use it. If Apple announced that they were using ground-up baby bones in their newest iPhone case, John Gruber would be there to patiently explain how there's a surplus of babies in the world, and besides dirty diapers don't really fit in with the whole Apple æsthetic. If Apple announced that from this day forth the only way to get an Apple product would be in exchange for selling oneself into slavery under Apple, John Gruber would be there to patiently explain how this is a revolutionary new welfare programme which will ensure that no Apple customer ever goes to bed hungry. I absolutely love Markdown: he genuinely made the world a better place by coming up with it. But he's about the furthest thing from objective when it comes to Apple.
adrenalinelol 10y ago
You aren't forced to buy a new iPhone, better yet the one you have probably doesn't really need to be upgraded at all. Apple will understand you're displeasure if you vote w/your wallet; they won't care about your displeasure if you tweet them or complain in the comments section.
- treehau5 10y ago
  You aren't forced, just coercively "suggested" into it, via updates pushed out by the carrier that inevitably make your phone run slower than a Celeron laptop from the early 2000s
  - gambiting 10y ago
    At least you get latest updates, unlike phones from literally any other manufacturer. If it's not the top-range model then you can consider yourself lucky to get even one update before the phone is completely forgotten.
    - fluxquanta 10y ago
      This is one of the two reasons I switched to an iPhone after being a staunch Android supporter since the first Samsung Galaxy device. The other being the fact that I was sick of my carrier installing branded software without my explicit consent. No Sprint, I'm not and never will be interested in your NASCAR app.
      - Godel_unicode 10y ago
        This is a false dichotomy, there are Android phones which are distributed using the Apple model (straight from the vendor with no cruft, activate on whatever carrier you want). Moto X, for instance.
    - smt88 10y ago
      Not true of Nexus and some HTC devices. Moto phones used to be the same way, but I'm not sure what Lenovo's doing with that brand. My original Moto X was my favorite phone ever. Android has a lot of choice, but that also means extra work to find the phone that works for you. I won't even consider a phone that isn't "vanilla" Android and backed by a guarantee of upgrades (so basically I'm stuck on Nexus).
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Folks buy new headphones for their phone all the time. Just get the right one. Headphones with wires fail all the time, so wireless is arguable better for most folks most of the time. The arguments about sound failures are cherry-picked to ignore that. Also phones are compromised by every hole in the case (water, dirt, static etc). So now there will be fewer catastrophic failures. And now you can walk with your phone in your pants pocket or purse (or anywhere), without a wire dangling! {edit: explain}
- rufius 10y ago
  And yet I've got three pair of $300 headphones in my house between my wife and I, two of which are 6+ years old. If you take care of high quality headphones they will last quite along time. Wire wears out? Replace it. Ear pads lost their shape? Replace them. So yaaaay dongles? Which that's even more fun because if I'm listening music for any length of time, there's a portable amp in between the phone and my headphones.
  - prof_hobart 10y ago
    >Wire wears out? Replace it. Is there any reason why a replacement wire with a lightning connection on one end wouldn't be possible?
    - crush_xc 10y ago
      That's not what he's saying. The original quote was that people replace head phones all the time, he doesn't. Higher end headphones allow you to not replace headphones all the time when a small piece wears out or breaks. So that quote is false for him.
      - prof_hobart 10y ago
        It is, but the equivalent is "people with high end headphones replace their headphone cable all the time". And if the rumours are true that Apple will release a lightning -> 3.5 mm female for standard earphones, there's nothing stopping them (or someone else) releasing a lightning -> 3.5 mm male to replace that cable.
dilap 10y ago
i just dont get it -- whats the problem with the old analog headphone jack? it works perfectly for me. wheres the benefit in ditching it?
- DougWebb 10y ago
  Apple's reasoning is that the problem with the old analog headphone jack is that it won't work with all of the new lightning-based headphones that will be coming out soon. /sarcasm
  - smt88 10y ago
    I'm not sure why you tagged that as sarcasm because it's 100% true. They're creating a market that didn't exist, and they'll be the ones licensing/manufacturing the products.
- rufius 10y ago
  There isn't one. At least not for mere mortals or even most HiFi nerds. I've got $300 headphones I use with my iPhone. They sound exceptionally better (especially with an amp) than shit earbuds it comes with. Even if Apple traded the analog for a digital connection, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't notice a meaningful difference in day to day use. Now I'm sure if I sat down with the express goal of proving they're different I could convince myself they are but I doubt it.
Navarr 10y ago
I don't think abandoning the headphone jack is a bad idea. I think abandoning it for lightning is a bad idea. Is apple so desperate for hardware money that there is not a single "open" connector on the iPhone? Why Lightning as opposed to USB-C? Why make it so that people need a completely different set of headphones just for apple devices? (Bluetooth not withstanding)
- thirdsun 10y ago
  Of course you won't buy new headphones. You'll buy adaptors - buying an Apple-specific headphone would be insane in my opinion.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Or you know, you wont buy anything. In the future, Bluetooth headphones will be the norm.
    - TillE 10y ago
      Even in a distant-future fantasy world where everything works perfectly, charging your headphones still sucks.
    - smt88 10y ago
      I've had Bluetooth headphones for years and still prefer wired headphones unless my phone is charging. BT headphones discharge very quickly, have terrible audio quality, and are somewhat uncomfortable due to the added weight.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        Depends on the BT headphones. I've had 7+ hours of listening (normally don't go around wearing headphones for more than that in a day), and good audio quality with Parrot Zik (and they even use bluetooth 3, and not the lighter on battery and better 4 version).
PakG1 10y ago
I'm just curious about how I'd charge my iPhone using a portable power bank while on the go if my Lightning port is occupied with my earbuds. Getting those extra battery pack cases is a nuisance, unnecessarily increases the phone's size. A portable power bank is much more flexible. Plug it in when I need it, keep it in my pocket if I'm on the go. I know that wireless charging is on the table, but how would that work as I'm walking on the sidewalk? Would it stay flush with the iPhone via a case? If so, doesn't that go back to how a battery pack case makes the phone unnecessarily large? Or do I put it on the phone only when necessary? If I put it on the phone only when necessary, do I take my preferred case off whenever I need to charge on the go? Or do I buy some sort of Lightning Y-cable to make this work? This is the one question I want answered. Or maybe Bluetooth earphones will have good enough quality and battery life for none of it to matter. Who knows?
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  I remember hearing talk of a "charge-through" Lightning cable. Presumably that would be the cheapest option.
Dotnaught 10y ago
Mobile phones in general are user-hostile.
- imtringued 10y ago
  Mobile games are also user-hostile...
IkmoIkmo 10y ago
I'd be completely comfortable for replacing it with USB-C. You already have the port, it's an industry standard, it's de facto open to use for anyone. It's smaller, both in terms of thickness (which I don't care much about by now, but I'll grant it's a thing), as well as volume. What concerns me is that the most popular phone and probably listening device in the world, will move towards a proprietary sound system, fragmenting the headphone and speaker market into two worlds. That just sucks, and it feels like a major nuisance for an entire industry. It's like some worldwide government just created a law half the world or industry must use one standard and the other half the other, it's just shit. Further, tinfoil-hat time, but I think some sense to this fear. A lot of people have voiced concerns that one can employ all kinds of DRM/licensing tricks, now that there's full control on the i/o. You can for example only allow a certain level of bass on headphones that have a license with Apple. I think these effects will be very limited, but I also think they'll all be tiny steps in the wrong direction we really don't need. In short, I'd be fine with a new standard, but not the lightning port, and have a substantial concern about a minor (imo) probability that a digital io leads to walled audio gardens.
- ghshephard 10y ago
  I came here to say just this, but you captured every though I had, and better. USB-C finally has the chance to be the universal adapter for "phone sized" devices (there will probably have to be a micro-USB C for things that are tinier) - and if Apple really wanted to show courage/leadership, they would replace their lightning ports with a standard that every device in the world is moving to. I'd have no problem with USB-C headphones.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    I do - you now can't charge your phone and listen to music at the same time, unless you have some weird Y-splitter-type cable. Can we have two usb-c ports on phones?
    - trowawee 10y ago
      This is a thing that was concerning me. One port means I am either charging or listening to music, never both (at least, not with good headphones).
alexnewman 10y ago
I lose my earphone regularly and replace them with 15$ headphones I can get at the drugstore. I guess that means I'm getting off the iPhone .
- alexnewman 10y ago
  Do the math 15$ head phone plus 15$ adapter roughly doubled the cost of my habits.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  $15? Jeez, for $20 you can get the Xiaomi Piston, which is great. Otherwise, just buy ten $2 buds from dx.com.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    This is a great example of the absolutely terrible moderation here. This is a very good comment, pointing out how someone can either pay about the same money and get a much higher-quality product, or save a bunch of money by going to a different vendor (dx.com) and buying in bulk (since the OP admits he loses his headphones frequently). Personally I'd be happy if someone quickly pointed out how I could save 87% on something I buy regularly.
awinder 10y ago
Really think phasing this in might have been the better play (ship lightning headphones, keep the port for backwards compatibility) but that's not how apple rolls. They make user-hostile decisions all the time but the track record of not getting burned too deeply probably makes this an easier decision from their eyes. The aux port is super ubiquitous though and a lot of buy-in is already there, so if ever they're going to burned by one of these decisions now would be the time.
xivzgrev 10y ago
"Raise your hand if the thing you wanted most from your next phone was either fewer ports or more dongles. I didn’t think so. You wanted better battery life, didn’t you? Everyone just wants better battery life." raises hand to second point Show me a phone battery that lasts a week between charges, and I shall show you my wallet
- rikkus 10y ago
  http://webcusp.com/ulefone-joins-the-6200-mah-battery-club-with-ulefone-power/ http://webcusp.com/ulefone-joins-the-6200-mah-battery-club-w... Might not be a whole week, but I'm assuming you'll be buying one?
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    I'm not who you are replying to but... If it meets my other requirements (that article seems to be short on details), then yes, I absolutely will buy it. Unfortunately, buying phones isn't like buying a laptop. I can't choose to the bigger battery option, while leaving all the other specs the same.
    - imtringued 10y ago
      Strangely enough some laptop manufacturers prefer to have a dozen models of the same laptop instead of just letting you straight up choose a base model and let you configure it.
    - rikkus 10y ago
      I was hinting at the problem with the claim that we'd all buy phones with large batteries if they existed. You pointed at the actual problem: Leaving all the other specs the same. Unfortunately, currently the phones with big batteries aren't simply upgraded versions of the top-end phones, so if you want a big battery, you have to pick something less... attractive. The fact people aren't buying these big battery phones is pointed to as evidence that they're not actually desired, but I would contend that until we see a current flagship iPhone with an option for an identical phone but a larger battery, we're comparing apples (sorry) to oranges.
return0 10y ago
I for one believe apple's users deserve better than a decades-old, ugly design just because everyone else tolerates it.
mschuster91 10y ago
The only reason why the 3.5mm TRRS needs to die is the vile hack that has been done to the mike channel to use it for control button commands - which are not standardized between anyone, actually. But I am afraid that the accessory/phone/speaker industries plainly want to do one thing: make more money. Given that you can get a relatively good pair of in-ears for <€25, and with USB-C you can sell it for €50+, just because it has active circuitry...
6stringmerc 10y ago
When I see Pro and Pro-sumer level audio equipment move away from 3.5mm and 1/4" jacks to...whatever...then I'll start paying attention. Otherwise the downstream is already suspect quality (earbuds, variable bitrate streaming, high-noise environments, etc) so whatever cable or wireless connection consumers prefer is kinda sorta an afterthought to me.
rayiner 10y ago
I'm looking forward to getting rid of the headphone jack. I'm looking forward to getting a MacBook Pro with the MacBook low-travel keyboard. I'd even be fine with a MacBook Pro with a single USB-C port! One thing Apple gets is that you don't need to constrain your design to appease small minorities of users. I bet 99.9% of people only ever plug in the stock earbuds or a pair of Beats they bought at the Apple Store. So why should Apple waste logic board space on a headphone jack?
- jkot 10y ago
  > you don't need to constrain your design to appease small minorities of users. > I bet 99.9% of people only ever plug in the stock earbuds 99.9% is a small minority? We could use the same argument for removing display :-)
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  Have you never been on an airplane? Bose on virtually every head, because their noise cancelling is the best (and protected by patent). Look at all the work Bose and Beats put in to fighting each other for endorsement and "official headphones of..." deals. This is about giving Beats a leg up on Bose, or at least stealing revenue in licensing or dongles.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    I have no problem with that. If those Bose users really value their Bose headphones so much, then they won't buy a new iPhone that doesn't work with them. Apple only gets away with this behavior because countless sheep happily pay them for it.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm sure there's a log somewhere on the Internet of a message board where people called Apple customers "sheep" when they got rid of the 3.5" floppy drive.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Bluetooth?
fullphaser 10y ago
I don't know this seems to be missing the most basic question I have. What If I want to plug in my phone and listen to music at the same time? Am I going to need another adapter for this? How does this not violate the Telecommunications Act Section 255 Accessibility Guidelines §1193.43 Output, display, and control functions. (g) Availability of audio cutoff. Where a product delivers audio output through an external speaker, provide an industry standard connector for headphones or personal listening devices (e.g., phone-like handset or earcup) which cuts off the speaker(s) when used. ? It's bad enough the Gym I go to has a bunch of proprietary Lightning connectors and my phone is obviously MicroUSB, I'd hate to not have the right headphones for that same gym equipment.
jwebb99 10y ago
I don't understand this push to get rid of the analogue headphone jack. It's a solution in search of a problem--like removing physical buttons from the Kindle...the alternative (touch screen page turns) is more high-tech, but not as pleasant. I'm sure audophiles would appreciate a digital interface for their headphones, but everyone else is perfectly content to use cheap $5 earbuds for their highly compressed audio files. Yet, we're now supposed to believe that the general public will enjoy paying a premium for new gear that replaces their cheap and perfectly functional headphones? Just because a technology is old and low tech doesn't mean it's antiquated.
- smt88 10y ago
  > It's a solution in search of a problem It does solve a problem. It solves the problem of Apple having less money than it wants to have. It just doesn't solve a consumer problem.
- jaynos 10y ago
  >I don't understand this push to get rid of the analogue headphone jack. I think I read that removing the headphone jack is needed to make phones thinner. I don't care for a thinner phone. Leave the analog headphone jack. My phone is usually in my pocket when using the headphone jack and the jack does a very good job of keeping the headphones connected. USB-C or lightning cables are much easier to knock out of the port thus interrupting my listening experience.
- zerohm 10y ago
  It's not the age of the tech, it's the amount of space it takes up. Getting rid of the 3.5mm jack gives them 3 or so square cm on a preciously tiny motherboard. They can use this space for more battery or components on the mobo. One less port also means one less place water can get in. These are things Apple pursues relentlessly.
- vocatus_gate 10y ago
  The term you're looking for is "chronological snobbery," coined by C.S. Lewis. It's the idea that something is worthless because it isn't new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery
campezzi 10y ago
I would normally agree, but Apple has a good track record of yanking out things that were considered crucial and turned out to be relics from the past in desperate need of innovation (or replacement). My optimistic prediction: the increased demand for wireless headphones will drive manufacturers to constantly improve their products and drop prices to remain competitive - two years from now, we won't even remember the day our phones had a headphone jack.
- sametmax 10y ago
  Oh we will. Because the people listening the most to music are musician, and they entire stack is linked by jacks. So they will carry adapters everywhere, one for thunderbolt, one for usb-c, and hate it. I know I will, because I won't buy a new headphone in the next 2 hears, mine being very expensive. That doesn't mean I think it's a bad move. The thunderbolt migration was a good move. Removing the floppy and the DVD player is a good move. And removing the jack it probably one. I actually look forward for the day where my phone, laptop and flatscreen only have USB-C port as input and ouput. But it will be annoying for a while, and way more than 2 years. Espacially since wireless headphones are a f*ing pain to use.
smt88 10y ago
Let's assume for a minute that this isn't a naked attempt at making more money off of accessories. The post-Jobs Apple (or maybe even Jobs himself) needs to learn that "less" is not always "simpler" and "combining it into one thing" is not always "simpler". "Simple" also has to factor in history. If we had all spent decades using devices with a single port for power and audio, then this might make sense. As far as ugly goes, the ports are pretty well-hidden on phones now. Slim? Not sure shaving 1mm off the phone is going to make as much difference as removing a major port.
jackgavigan 10y ago
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if Apple do decide to ditch the 3.5mm jack, they'll replace it with another (presumably thinner) analog connector (e.g. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/09/22/apple-prepares-for-thinner-smartphones-with-slim-headphone-plug-patent http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/09/22/apple-prepares-for...).
walterbell 10y ago
This would also destroy customer investments in TRRS video microphones with a 3.5 mm headphone passthrough for monitoring, e.g. http://www.rode.com/microphones/videomicme http://www.rode.com/microphones/videomicme
markbao 10y ago
Four opinions, going off of this article and partly in response to Gruber's[0]: 1. There was a functional reason that CDs and floppies went out of style: low capacity and the Internet. What’s the functional reason to get rid of analog headphones? It’s not quality – analog headphones have excellent sound quality, and 99% of people won’t be able to tell the difference with ‘digital’ sound, right? 2. So what happens if I want to charge my phone (e.g. from an external battery) and listen to headphones at the same time? Do I have to use some sort of ... dongle? That’s going to get silly. 3. Wireless headphones are ideal, but the price-to-performance ratio still sucks. Maybe if in the future we all have excellent wireless headphones, it might be a good idea to remove the headphone jack and provide a legacy wired output through the Lightning port, but we're not there yet. 4. Why do this in an era of declining iPhone sales growth? Admittedly, analog headphone jacks will go away at some point, but I hope it's not before we have an elegant solution to these problems – like wireless headphones, perhaps. [0] https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_n...
- nibnib 10y ago
  Wireless headphones are another battery to charge, maintain, replace... Not ideal, imo not even an improvement. My phone is on my person when I use headphones with it, so untethering isn't really a plus. The only advantage I can think of is keeping a phone in a pocket or bag while listening to music, which doesn't seem worth it all.
  - bryanlarsen 10y ago
    Wireless headphones with a dead battery should[1] work when plugged into the phone. So if you don't want to worry about the battery, just keep it connected to the phone. Sort of the best of both worlds. should: I don't know if they actually do, I've never used usb-c or lightning headphones. But they should.
- rsync 10y ago
  "So what happens if I want to charge my phone (e.g. from an external battery) and listen to headphones at the same time? Do I have to use some sort of ... dongle? That’s going to get silly." What happens if you want to charge your new 12" macbook and you also need to use your cellular dongle ? They've shown total contempt for even this common, necessary use-case - why would they not show the same contempt for your use-case ? "Admittedly, analog headphone jacks will go away at some point" There is no reason to assume that. Only a childish contempt for "old things" and a desire to fix things that aren't broken would lead to that outcome.
mancerayder 10y ago
A lot of commenters have said what's needed to be said about potential fragmentation in the market, the annoying example of the office 'hey, got any more of those apple dongles for [video,USB to ethernet, you name it]' issues that any Corp IT department will moan about. But here's my minor nitpick. USB-C is loosey-goosey. I slightly tickle the cable and it falls out. 3.5mm has a snap to it. But also the 3.5mm is a lot smaller on my 5X than the USB-C. I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical of the technical merits, and the analogies to floppy disks drives going obsolete. The analogies don't seem to apply.
tilect1 10y ago
This is the kind of things that Apple likes to do which is why I don't buy Apple Products...
Zigurd 10y ago
In principle this is good. In principle, the dac and amp should be paired with the transducers. The longer the digital path, the better. If you have high-end analog headphones, you might already have a headphone amp. Now a headphone amp will have digital inputs. BUT this opens the door to various limitations imposed by content publishers. That so many people are so opposed to usb c audio, is a damning indictment of the content publishing industry's untrustworthiness.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
calgoo 10y ago
Does anyone else think its time to move away from Bluetooth and start over with a new wireless protocol? No network or serial or other protocols, just good full duplex high quality audio (with encryption and authentication). It just seams that we are having too many issues with the Bluetooth protocol and everything around it. Maybe a fresh start would be good?
Bombthecat 10y ago
I'm only using Bluetooth. So I don't care what port they use. And I think more and more people will move to Bluetooth.

144 points by wtbob 10y ago

I've been needing to replace my phone for a while, and been holding out for an iphone 7. If it doesn't have a headphone socket I will just get something else.

doktrin 10y ago
Ditto. I've been using Android since my iPhone 4s shattered, and was thinking about moving back to iOS - if they remove the headphone jack there's no way that's happening.

ericlamb89 10y ago

it's going to be fine guys

ninedays 10y ago

Changing any connector you had in place for a decade or more is user-hostile and stupid and yet it's been done for decades. Don't worry, we'll all be fine.

bsimpson 10y ago

John Gruber's response (http://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives http://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_ne... ): > Should the analog headphone jack remain on our devices forever? If you think so, you can stop reading. What's the advantage to removing the headphone jack? Is the jack some sort of bottleneck to sound quality that nobody noticed until now? I really don't see a benefit in removing the headphone jack, now or anytime in the foreseeable future.

kbart 10y ago
It's too big (at least according to those "slim" worshiping designers).
- creshal 10y ago
  Then use the standardized 2.5mm analog audio plug that was designed for space-constrained environments.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Yes, but if you're going to change it, might as well go full on. Why use a same-era technology? Yes, it will be thin too, but it will also have the same issues as going for a digital interface (annoying people with the change etc) -- but without any of its advanced capabilities (e.g. for device control).
- mr_sturd 10y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11953691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11953691 I'll point you in the direction of bsimpson's post, just above.
elthran 10y ago
I think the argument that is made is that it's stopping phones becoming thinner - which looking at the size of the jack on my Nexus 5X, I can believe. However, personally, I'll live with a thicker phone if it means I can have a larger capacity battery, let alone a 3.5mm jack
- TheGirondin 10y ago
  Phones have gotten thin enough. I would rather have more battery capacity and more drop/screen durability.
  - maccard 10y ago
    Actions speak louder than words. People continue to say they want more durable phones and longer battery life, but continue to buy thinner and shinier phones.
    - SeanBoocock 10y ago
      I'd be interested to hear and read about examples of this being tested in the market. Have consumers been presented with a choice between phone thinness and battery life on the otherwise same phone hardware?
      - trowawee 10y ago
        http://www.wired.com/2012/04/why-is-htc-choosing-phone-thinness-over-battery-life/ http://www.wired.com/2012/04/why-is-htc-choosing-phone-thinn... > According to Kilburn, HTC’s consumer research shows people prefer thin smartphones — between 8 mm and 10 mm thick — as opposed to thicker devices with longer battery life. One data point, but that's what HTC's claiming their customer research shows, and Apple's trends suggest their internal data points the same way.
        CaptSpify 10y ago
        Maybe I missed it in the article, but it's interesting to me that people aren't give 2 versions of the same device to choose from. That's like saying people prefer the color blue, because they keep buying blue Accords over red Civics. There's clearly more than the one option going into the choice here.
rplst8 10y ago
Comparing the 3.5 mm audio jack to the floppy drive is ridiculous. The jack has become far, far, more ubiquitous than the floppy drive. Additionally, the things that use the jack are often of higher quality and not disposible like a floppy disk was. And this ignores the fact that the floppy disk/drive was technologically usurped by other removable storage formats. The 3.5 mm jack still delivers the absolute best sound quality compared to the other options available on a smart phone. Most, if not all, of the other solutions will be a step backward.
- SloopJon 10y ago
  Yeah, this is amazing apologism, even for Gruber. "And in five years we’ll look at analog headphone jacks the way we look at all the other legacy ports we’ve abandoned." In five years, there are going to a lot of crappy Lightning earbuds in drawers and landfills.
  - smt88 10y ago
    > look at all the other legacy ports we’ve abandoned I miss a lot of those ports. A lot of people do. Fumbling around the office for an Apple-compatible video cable is a relatively frequent event, in my experience.
    - mrob 10y ago
      I still have an old fashioned parallel port (via PCI card) on my PC, because there's no other option for convenient and low-latency GPIO. And I don't remember old fashioned serial ports needing special drivers that would brick unapproved hardware, like some modern FTDI USB serial adaptors did. "Legacy" ports are simple and reliable. Let's not abandon the simple and reliable 3.5mm headphone port.
      - kale 10y ago
        This is a great point. I am gearing up to use a Raspberry Pi in a project for GPIO. It doesn't have to be low-powered necessarily, but the abandonment of the parallel port means that getting GPIO on a PC is more difficult.
cr1895 10y ago
I use higher impedance headphones that the built-in amplifier doesn't power well enough. Therefore I use a separate amp/DAC that feeds through usb from my iPhone. But this certainly describes a very limited subset of people who listen to music through headphones, and even though I don't use it much I wouldn't like to see the analog jack go away.
acqq 10y ago
> If you think so, you can stop reading. I didn't and really there are no arguments there why would it be better for anybody but Apple. The premise of the article is "once it's accepted that the analog jack must go, let's just write whatever." It doesn't even discuss what the advantage for Apple should be. Which would make clearer why it's not for anybody else.
CaptainZapp 10y ago
Should the analog headphone jack remain on our devices forever? If you think so, you can stop reading. Good! Saves me the read.
haddr 10y ago
Floppy disk is a straw man argument. But hey, Apple can now impose the change from the position of power. And they have Beats who will follow this change...
doktrin 10y ago
> John Gruber's response Does this guy ever write critically about Apple? I've come across his pieces over the years, and he honestly always comes across like a zealous ideologue.
- jccc 10y ago
  Yeah, pretty much never: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7013002 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7013002
  - doktrin 10y ago
    As mentioned, I'm not a regular reader of his, so the fact that I've somehow missed 3 pieces of his published 3+ years ago shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Would you feel less defensive if I just called him a biased partisan instead of using an absolute-sounding word like "ever"?
    - jccc 10y ago
      I think Gruber has become more and more captured by the beat he covers. I really hate it when he uses language only Apple pitch-folk use, like "with iPhone" or "on iPad." I think he's lost more of his objectivity than perhaps he himself realizes. What I object to is the instant dismissal of every Gruber article by people who can't see nuance but only black and white. It's simply not true that he is as partisan and in-the-tank for Apple as many people here think he is. And the point is that this degrades our ability to have meaningful discussion. > Would you feel less defensive [...] Making assumptions about people's biases is exactly my objection about the reflex reaction many HN commenters have toward Gruber.
      - doktrin 10y ago
        > What I object to is the instant dismissal of every Gruber article by people who can't see nuance but only black and white. It's simply not true that he is as partisan and in-the-tank for Apple as many people here think he is. Sounds fair enough, but yet it still seems reasonable to mistrust Gruber's opinions on the basis of him having established a pattern of supporting Apple. The fact that he doesn't literally always come to their defense isn't really all that much of a mitigating factor, since his editorial integrity is already suspect. > Making assumptions about people's biases is exactly my objection about the reflex reaction many HN commenters have toward Gruber. I make decisions based on available information. Your post came across as derisive and snarky.
wtbob 10y ago
If Apple announced that they are adding a new steel-spike-through-the-eye feature, John Gruber would be there to patiently explain how this could be really useful, and how it doesn't kill you unless you actually use it. If Apple announced that they were using ground-up baby bones in their newest iPhone case, John Gruber would be there to patiently explain how there's a surplus of babies in the world, and besides dirty diapers don't really fit in with the whole Apple æsthetic. If Apple announced that from this day forth the only way to get an Apple product would be in exchange for selling oneself into slavery under Apple, John Gruber would be there to patiently explain how this is a revolutionary new welfare programme which will ensure that no Apple customer ever goes to bed hungry. I absolutely love Markdown: he genuinely made the world a better place by coming up with it. But he's about the furthest thing from objective when it comes to Apple.

adrenalinelol 10y ago

You aren't forced to buy a new iPhone, better yet the one you have probably doesn't really need to be upgraded at all. Apple will understand you're displeasure if you vote w/your wallet; they won't care about your displeasure if you tweet them or complain in the comments section.

treehau5 10y ago
You aren't forced, just coercively "suggested" into it, via updates pushed out by the carrier that inevitably make your phone run slower than a Celeron laptop from the early 2000s
- gambiting 10y ago
  At least you get latest updates, unlike phones from literally any other manufacturer. If it's not the top-range model then you can consider yourself lucky to get even one update before the phone is completely forgotten.
  - fluxquanta 10y ago
    This is one of the two reasons I switched to an iPhone after being a staunch Android supporter since the first Samsung Galaxy device. The other being the fact that I was sick of my carrier installing branded software without my explicit consent. No Sprint, I'm not and never will be interested in your NASCAR app.
    - Godel_unicode 10y ago
      This is a false dichotomy, there are Android phones which are distributed using the Apple model (straight from the vendor with no cruft, activate on whatever carrier you want). Moto X, for instance.
  - smt88 10y ago
    Not true of Nexus and some HTC devices. Moto phones used to be the same way, but I'm not sure what Lenovo's doing with that brand. My original Moto X was my favorite phone ever. Android has a lot of choice, but that also means extra work to find the phone that works for you. I won't even consider a phone that isn't "vanilla" Android and backed by a guarantee of upgrades (so basically I'm stuck on Nexus).

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Folks buy new headphones for their phone all the time. Just get the right one. Headphones with wires fail all the time, so wireless is arguable better for most folks most of the time. The arguments about sound failures are cherry-picked to ignore that. Also phones are compromised by every hole in the case (water, dirt, static etc). So now there will be fewer catastrophic failures. And now you can walk with your phone in your pants pocket or purse (or anywhere), without a wire dangling! {edit: explain}

rufius 10y ago
And yet I've got three pair of $300 headphones in my house between my wife and I, two of which are 6+ years old. If you take care of high quality headphones they will last quite along time. Wire wears out? Replace it. Ear pads lost their shape? Replace them. So yaaaay dongles? Which that's even more fun because if I'm listening music for any length of time, there's a portable amp in between the phone and my headphones.
- prof_hobart 10y ago
  >Wire wears out? Replace it. Is there any reason why a replacement wire with a lightning connection on one end wouldn't be possible?
  - crush_xc 10y ago
    That's not what he's saying. The original quote was that people replace head phones all the time, he doesn't. Higher end headphones allow you to not replace headphones all the time when a small piece wears out or breaks. So that quote is false for him.
    - prof_hobart 10y ago
      It is, but the equivalent is "people with high end headphones replace their headphone cable all the time". And if the rumours are true that Apple will release a lightning -> 3.5 mm female for standard earphones, there's nothing stopping them (or someone else) releasing a lightning -> 3.5 mm male to replace that cable.

dilap 10y ago

i just dont get it -- whats the problem with the old analog headphone jack? it works perfectly for me. wheres the benefit in ditching it?

DougWebb 10y ago
Apple's reasoning is that the problem with the old analog headphone jack is that it won't work with all of the new lightning-based headphones that will be coming out soon. /sarcasm
- smt88 10y ago
  I'm not sure why you tagged that as sarcasm because it's 100% true. They're creating a market that didn't exist, and they'll be the ones licensing/manufacturing the products.
rufius 10y ago
There isn't one. At least not for mere mortals or even most HiFi nerds. I've got $300 headphones I use with my iPhone. They sound exceptionally better (especially with an amp) than shit earbuds it comes with. Even if Apple traded the analog for a digital connection, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't notice a meaningful difference in day to day use. Now I'm sure if I sat down with the express goal of proving they're different I could convince myself they are but I doubt it.

Navarr 10y ago

I don't think abandoning the headphone jack is a bad idea. I think abandoning it for lightning is a bad idea. Is apple so desperate for hardware money that there is not a single "open" connector on the iPhone? Why Lightning as opposed to USB-C? Why make it so that people need a completely different set of headphones just for apple devices? (Bluetooth not withstanding)

thirdsun 10y ago
Of course you won't buy new headphones. You'll buy adaptors - buying an Apple-specific headphone would be insane in my opinion.
- coldtea 10y ago
  Or you know, you wont buy anything. In the future, Bluetooth headphones will be the norm.
  - TillE 10y ago
    Even in a distant-future fantasy world where everything works perfectly, charging your headphones still sucks.
  - smt88 10y ago
    I've had Bluetooth headphones for years and still prefer wired headphones unless my phone is charging. BT headphones discharge very quickly, have terrible audio quality, and are somewhat uncomfortable due to the added weight.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Depends on the BT headphones. I've had 7+ hours of listening (normally don't go around wearing headphones for more than that in a day), and good audio quality with Parrot Zik (and they even use bluetooth 3, and not the lighter on battery and better 4 version).

PakG1 10y ago

I'm just curious about how I'd charge my iPhone using a portable power bank while on the go if my Lightning port is occupied with my earbuds. Getting those extra battery pack cases is a nuisance, unnecessarily increases the phone's size. A portable power bank is much more flexible. Plug it in when I need it, keep it in my pocket if I'm on the go. I know that wireless charging is on the table, but how would that work as I'm walking on the sidewalk? Would it stay flush with the iPhone via a case? If so, doesn't that go back to how a battery pack case makes the phone unnecessarily large? Or do I put it on the phone only when necessary? If I put it on the phone only when necessary, do I take my preferred case off whenever I need to charge on the go? Or do I buy some sort of Lightning Y-cable to make this work? This is the one question I want answered. Or maybe Bluetooth earphones will have good enough quality and battery life for none of it to matter. Who knows?

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
I remember hearing talk of a "charge-through" Lightning cable. Presumably that would be the cheapest option.

Dotnaught 10y ago

Mobile phones in general are user-hostile.

imtringued 10y ago
Mobile games are also user-hostile...

IkmoIkmo 10y ago

I'd be completely comfortable for replacing it with USB-C. You already have the port, it's an industry standard, it's de facto open to use for anyone. It's smaller, both in terms of thickness (which I don't care much about by now, but I'll grant it's a thing), as well as volume. What concerns me is that the most popular phone and probably listening device in the world, will move towards a proprietary sound system, fragmenting the headphone and speaker market into two worlds. That just sucks, and it feels like a major nuisance for an entire industry. It's like some worldwide government just created a law half the world or industry must use one standard and the other half the other, it's just shit. Further, tinfoil-hat time, but I think some sense to this fear. A lot of people have voiced concerns that one can employ all kinds of DRM/licensing tricks, now that there's full control on the i/o. You can for example only allow a certain level of bass on headphones that have a license with Apple. I think these effects will be very limited, but I also think they'll all be tiny steps in the wrong direction we really don't need. In short, I'd be fine with a new standard, but not the lightning port, and have a substantial concern about a minor (imo) probability that a digital io leads to walled audio gardens.

ghshephard 10y ago
I came here to say just this, but you captured every though I had, and better. USB-C finally has the chance to be the universal adapter for "phone sized" devices (there will probably have to be a micro-USB C for things that are tinier) - and if Apple really wanted to show courage/leadership, they would replace their lightning ports with a standard that every device in the world is moving to. I'd have no problem with USB-C headphones.
- gambiting 10y ago
  I do - you now can't charge your phone and listen to music at the same time, unless you have some weird Y-splitter-type cable. Can we have two usb-c ports on phones?
  - trowawee 10y ago
    This is a thing that was concerning me. One port means I am either charging or listening to music, never both (at least, not with good headphones).

alexnewman 10y ago

I lose my earphone regularly and replace them with 15$ headphones I can get at the drugstore. I guess that means I'm getting off the iPhone .

alexnewman 10y ago
Do the math 15$ head phone plus 15$ adapter roughly doubled the cost of my habits.
StavrosK 10y ago
$15? Jeez, for $20 you can get the Xiaomi Piston, which is great. Otherwise, just buy ten $2 buds from dx.com.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  This is a great example of the absolutely terrible moderation here. This is a very good comment, pointing out how someone can either pay about the same money and get a much higher-quality product, or save a bunch of money by going to a different vendor (dx.com) and buying in bulk (since the OP admits he loses his headphones frequently). Personally I'd be happy if someone quickly pointed out how I could save 87% on something I buy regularly.

awinder 10y ago

Really think phasing this in might have been the better play (ship lightning headphones, keep the port for backwards compatibility) but that's not how apple rolls. They make user-hostile decisions all the time but the track record of not getting burned too deeply probably makes this an easier decision from their eyes. The aux port is super ubiquitous though and a lot of buy-in is already there, so if ever they're going to burned by one of these decisions now would be the time.

xivzgrev 10y ago

"Raise your hand if the thing you wanted most from your next phone was either fewer ports or more dongles. I didn’t think so. You wanted better battery life, didn’t you? Everyone just wants better battery life." raises hand to second point Show me a phone battery that lasts a week between charges, and I shall show you my wallet

rikkus 10y ago
http://webcusp.com/ulefone-joins-the-6200-mah-battery-club-with-ulefone-power/ http://webcusp.com/ulefone-joins-the-6200-mah-battery-club-w... Might not be a whole week, but I'm assuming you'll be buying one?
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  I'm not who you are replying to but... If it meets my other requirements (that article seems to be short on details), then yes, I absolutely will buy it. Unfortunately, buying phones isn't like buying a laptop. I can't choose to the bigger battery option, while leaving all the other specs the same.
  - imtringued 10y ago
    Strangely enough some laptop manufacturers prefer to have a dozen models of the same laptop instead of just letting you straight up choose a base model and let you configure it.
  - rikkus 10y ago
    I was hinting at the problem with the claim that we'd all buy phones with large batteries if they existed. You pointed at the actual problem: Leaving all the other specs the same. Unfortunately, currently the phones with big batteries aren't simply upgraded versions of the top-end phones, so if you want a big battery, you have to pick something less... attractive. The fact people aren't buying these big battery phones is pointed to as evidence that they're not actually desired, but I would contend that until we see a current flagship iPhone with an option for an identical phone but a larger battery, we're comparing apples (sorry) to oranges.

return0 10y ago

I for one believe apple's users deserve better than a decades-old, ugly design just because everyone else tolerates it.

mschuster91 10y ago

The only reason why the 3.5mm TRRS needs to die is the vile hack that has been done to the mike channel to use it for control button commands - which are not standardized between anyone, actually. But I am afraid that the accessory/phone/speaker industries plainly want to do one thing: make more money. Given that you can get a relatively good pair of in-ears for <€25, and with USB-C you can sell it for €50+, just because it has active circuitry...

6stringmerc 10y ago

When I see Pro and Pro-sumer level audio equipment move away from 3.5mm and 1/4" jacks to...whatever...then I'll start paying attention. Otherwise the downstream is already suspect quality (earbuds, variable bitrate streaming, high-noise environments, etc) so whatever cable or wireless connection consumers prefer is kinda sorta an afterthought to me.

rayiner 10y ago

I'm looking forward to getting rid of the headphone jack. I'm looking forward to getting a MacBook Pro with the MacBook low-travel keyboard. I'd even be fine with a MacBook Pro with a single USB-C port! One thing Apple gets is that you don't need to constrain your design to appease small minorities of users. I bet 99.9% of people only ever plug in the stock earbuds or a pair of Beats they bought at the Apple Store. So why should Apple waste logic board space on a headphone jack?

jkot 10y ago
> you don't need to constrain your design to appease small minorities of users. > I bet 99.9% of people only ever plug in the stock earbuds 99.9% is a small minority? We could use the same argument for removing display :-)
Godel_unicode 10y ago
Have you never been on an airplane? Bose on virtually every head, because their noise cancelling is the best (and protected by patent). Look at all the work Bose and Beats put in to fighting each other for endorsement and "official headphones of..." deals. This is about giving Beats a leg up on Bose, or at least stealing revenue in licensing or dongles.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  I have no problem with that. If those Bose users really value their Bose headphones so much, then they won't buy a new iPhone that doesn't work with them. Apple only gets away with this behavior because countless sheep happily pay them for it.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm sure there's a log somewhere on the Internet of a message board where people called Apple customers "sheep" when they got rid of the 3.5" floppy drive.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Bluetooth?

fullphaser 10y ago

I don't know this seems to be missing the most basic question I have. What If I want to plug in my phone and listen to music at the same time? Am I going to need another adapter for this? How does this not violate the Telecommunications Act Section 255 Accessibility Guidelines §1193.43 Output, display, and control functions. (g) Availability of audio cutoff. Where a product delivers audio output through an external speaker, provide an industry standard connector for headphones or personal listening devices (e.g., phone-like handset or earcup) which cuts off the speaker(s) when used. ? It's bad enough the Gym I go to has a bunch of proprietary Lightning connectors and my phone is obviously MicroUSB, I'd hate to not have the right headphones for that same gym equipment.

jwebb99 10y ago

I don't understand this push to get rid of the analogue headphone jack. It's a solution in search of a problem--like removing physical buttons from the Kindle...the alternative (touch screen page turns) is more high-tech, but not as pleasant. I'm sure audophiles would appreciate a digital interface for their headphones, but everyone else is perfectly content to use cheap $5 earbuds for their highly compressed audio files. Yet, we're now supposed to believe that the general public will enjoy paying a premium for new gear that replaces their cheap and perfectly functional headphones? Just because a technology is old and low tech doesn't mean it's antiquated.

smt88 10y ago
> It's a solution in search of a problem It does solve a problem. It solves the problem of Apple having less money than it wants to have. It just doesn't solve a consumer problem.
jaynos 10y ago
>I don't understand this push to get rid of the analogue headphone jack. I think I read that removing the headphone jack is needed to make phones thinner. I don't care for a thinner phone. Leave the analog headphone jack. My phone is usually in my pocket when using the headphone jack and the jack does a very good job of keeping the headphones connected. USB-C or lightning cables are much easier to knock out of the port thus interrupting my listening experience.
zerohm 10y ago
It's not the age of the tech, it's the amount of space it takes up. Getting rid of the 3.5mm jack gives them 3 or so square cm on a preciously tiny motherboard. They can use this space for more battery or components on the mobo. One less port also means one less place water can get in. These are things Apple pursues relentlessly.
vocatus_gate 10y ago
The term you're looking for is "chronological snobbery," coined by C.S. Lewis. It's the idea that something is worthless because it isn't new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery

campezzi 10y ago

I would normally agree, but Apple has a good track record of yanking out things that were considered crucial and turned out to be relics from the past in desperate need of innovation (or replacement). My optimistic prediction: the increased demand for wireless headphones will drive manufacturers to constantly improve their products and drop prices to remain competitive - two years from now, we won't even remember the day our phones had a headphone jack.

sametmax 10y ago
Oh we will. Because the people listening the most to music are musician, and they entire stack is linked by jacks. So they will carry adapters everywhere, one for thunderbolt, one for usb-c, and hate it. I know I will, because I won't buy a new headphone in the next 2 hears, mine being very expensive. That doesn't mean I think it's a bad move. The thunderbolt migration was a good move. Removing the floppy and the DVD player is a good move. And removing the jack it probably one. I actually look forward for the day where my phone, laptop and flatscreen only have USB-C port as input and ouput. But it will be annoying for a while, and way more than 2 years. Espacially since wireless headphones are a f*ing pain to use.

smt88 10y ago

Let's assume for a minute that this isn't a naked attempt at making more money off of accessories. The post-Jobs Apple (or maybe even Jobs himself) needs to learn that "less" is not always "simpler" and "combining it into one thing" is not always "simpler". "Simple" also has to factor in history. If we had all spent decades using devices with a single port for power and audio, then this might make sense. As far as ugly goes, the ports are pretty well-hidden on phones now. Slim? Not sure shaving 1mm off the phone is going to make as much difference as removing a major port.

jackgavigan 10y ago

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if Apple do decide to ditch the 3.5mm jack, they'll replace it with another (presumably thinner) analog connector (e.g. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/09/22/apple-prepares-for-thinner-smartphones-with-slim-headphone-plug-patent http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/09/22/apple-prepares-for...).

walterbell 10y ago

This would also destroy customer investments in TRRS video microphones with a 3.5 mm headphone passthrough for monitoring, e.g. http://www.rode.com/microphones/videomicme http://www.rode.com/microphones/videomicme

markbao 10y ago

Four opinions, going off of this article and partly in response to Gruber's[0]: 1. There was a functional reason that CDs and floppies went out of style: low capacity and the Internet. What’s the functional reason to get rid of analog headphones? It’s not quality – analog headphones have excellent sound quality, and 99% of people won’t be able to tell the difference with ‘digital’ sound, right? 2. So what happens if I want to charge my phone (e.g. from an external battery) and listen to headphones at the same time? Do I have to use some sort of ... dongle? That’s going to get silly. 3. Wireless headphones are ideal, but the price-to-performance ratio still sucks. Maybe if in the future we all have excellent wireless headphones, it might be a good idea to remove the headphone jack and provide a legacy wired output through the Lightning port, but we're not there yet. 4. Why do this in an era of declining iPhone sales growth? Admittedly, analog headphone jacks will go away at some point, but I hope it's not before we have an elegant solution to these problems – like wireless headphones, perhaps. [0] https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_new_floppy_drives https://daringfireball.net/2016/06/headphone_jacks_are_the_n...

nibnib 10y ago
Wireless headphones are another battery to charge, maintain, replace... Not ideal, imo not even an improvement. My phone is on my person when I use headphones with it, so untethering isn't really a plus. The only advantage I can think of is keeping a phone in a pocket or bag while listening to music, which doesn't seem worth it all.
- bryanlarsen 10y ago
  Wireless headphones with a dead battery should[1] work when plugged into the phone. So if you don't want to worry about the battery, just keep it connected to the phone. Sort of the best of both worlds. should: I don't know if they actually do, I've never used usb-c or lightning headphones. But they should.
rsync 10y ago
"So what happens if I want to charge my phone (e.g. from an external battery) and listen to headphones at the same time? Do I have to use some sort of ... dongle? That’s going to get silly." What happens if you want to charge your new 12" macbook and you also need to use your cellular dongle ? They've shown total contempt for even this common, necessary use-case - why would they not show the same contempt for your use-case ? "Admittedly, analog headphone jacks will go away at some point" There is no reason to assume that. Only a childish contempt for "old things" and a desire to fix things that aren't broken would lead to that outcome.

mancerayder 10y ago

A lot of commenters have said what's needed to be said about potential fragmentation in the market, the annoying example of the office 'hey, got any more of those apple dongles for [video,USB to ethernet, you name it]' issues that any Corp IT department will moan about. But here's my minor nitpick. USB-C is loosey-goosey. I slightly tickle the cable and it falls out. 3.5mm has a snap to it. But also the 3.5mm is a lot smaller on my 5X than the USB-C. I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical of the technical merits, and the analogies to floppy disks drives going obsolete. The analogies don't seem to apply.

tilect1 10y ago

This is the kind of things that Apple likes to do which is why I don't buy Apple Products...

Zigurd 10y ago

In principle this is good. In principle, the dac and amp should be paired with the transducers. The longer the digital path, the better. If you have high-end analog headphones, you might already have a headphone amp. Now a headphone amp will have digital inputs. BUT this opens the door to various limitations imposed by content publishers. That so many people are so opposed to usb c audio, is a damning indictment of the content publishing industry's untrustworthiness.

deleted 10y ago

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calgoo 10y ago

Does anyone else think its time to move away from Bluetooth and start over with a new wireless protocol? No network or serial or other protocols, just good full duplex high quality audio (with encryption and authentication). It just seams that we are having too many issues with the Bluetooth protocol and everything around it. Maybe a fresh start would be good?

Bombthecat 10y ago

I'm only using Bluetooth. So I don't care what port they use. And I think more and more people will move to Bluetooth.