15 ms·
China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet
- tomglynch 10y ago"In 2001, Chinese authorities implemented similar crackdown on Larung Gar by destroying thousands of monastic dwellings and expulsion of monastic and lay practitioners, some of whom died of shock or resorted to suicide, while some were rendered mentally unsound."
- sbose78 10y agoAny way of getting the UN involved?
- globuous 10y agoNot sure, China being a permanent member of UN's security council, they would just veto [1] anything going against their interest... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Counci...
- xiaoma 10y agoThe UN is useless anytime the interests of the US, China, Russia or other veto wielding countries are involved.
- abpavel 10y agoOr friends of any of those. Which in essence renders the whole UN useless.
- bhouston 10y agoThe UN isn't useless when dealing with countries that do not have many friends, like Iran or Somalia, etc. But yeah, the UN is useless when it comes to major powers and those protected by the major powers.
- humanrebar 10y agoThe UN is not stopping nuclear proliferation in friendless countries, which really undermines the entire purpose of the UN.
- known 10y agohttp://www.fairtrials.net/ http://www.fairtrials.net/
- mhuffman 10y agoWow! It is amazing that we do not consider this a human rights violation. Oh well, gotta keep them prices low at Walmart!
- lotu 10y agoWhat are you proposing we do? Cut off trade with China? Intervene militarily? Write a strongly worded letter?
- mattmanser 10y agoThat's what you did with Cuba and Iran and Iraq and Russia and etc., etc.
- the_ancient 10y agoYes but Cuba, Iran, Iraq, and Russia are not willing to supply US Companies with near indentured servants to make our stuff,then use the worthless paper they get for the stuff, to buy a different type of worthless paper that allows the US Government to build more war machines, and other things.
- Idontreddit 10y agoIt isn't the "indentured servants" that make china attractive, it's their huge market. I love how the internet trash also spout the same idiotic nonsense. China may have a lot of workers, but they also have a lot of buyers as well.
- deepGem 10y agoYou sure can do all of these.
- dogecoinbase 10y agoThese all seem like pretty heavy-handed interventions. I'm sure funding could be found for some targeted assassinations, though.
- reustle 10y agoNot saying this is right, but it sounds like the city exceeded their legal cap of 5k people? So it doesn't sound like it's a total surprise to them. Am I reading it wrong?
- icebraining 10y agoIt's not clear to me that there was any legal cap; from what I can tell, it was set by this order.
- tremon 10y agoThat's just rationalization. Had the city population been 4200, the cap would have been set at 4k.
- reustle 10y agoYou're right, I guess it isn't clear when the cap was set. I assumed it was defined more than a few years ago.
- justicezyx 10y agoI agree with you that this is a fair speculation, but nonetheless a speculation. There is no evidence before that Chinese government, despite being fairly un democratic, arbitrarily change how official rules are interpreted, AFAIK. I don't think HN welcomes such style of posting.
- sintaxi 10y agoUnder what legal authority does that cap exist?
- deepfriedbits 10y agoIt's China, so it falls under the authority of the CPC first, then any legal considerations second. We marvel at how quickly they built up high speed rail, but when you can just seize land without regard to imminent domain, associated lawsuits and the like, things tend to get expedited.
- icebraining 10y agoHere are a bunch of photos from the place: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2349761/Little-boxes-hillside--home-40-000-Buddhist-monks-The-stunning-makeshift-town-sprung-Tibetan-monastery.html#ixzz2YTJn15X1 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2349761/Little-boxes...
- mlvljr 10y ago[in thin voice] Freeeee Tibet!..
- kweks 10y agoI was there literally three days ago. The place is nothing short of breathtaking. Nestled at 4200km, it was a three day motorbike ride from Chengdu. Even at its foothills, you have no concept of the scale of the town hiding in the hills. This will truly be a tragic loss - the town is much more than the 'slum' it is represented as - it's arguably the most important Buddhist learning institution in the world.. Photos for the interested from my visit: http://travel.ninjito.com/dump/2016-06-15-Larung-Gar/index.html http://travel.ninjito.com/dump/2016-06-15-Larung-Gar/index.h... Edit: Got a good internet connection, uploaded decent photos.
- sebastianconcpt 10y agoGeez... thanks for sharing
- mac01021 10y agoAssuming most of those little structures are inhabited, how does this city sustain itself? The land around it does not appear to be cultivated, and there does not appear to be much of a commercial area. That's a lot of people to feed.
- kweks 10y agoWhilst the town itself is built in the upper saddle of a hill, the valley itself is fecund and wide, with many farms. I would assume that most supplies are brought in..
- snnn 10y agoMost male student there, can get a scholarship from the school, about 200-500 USD per month.
- jjcc 10y agoIt's seldom known to westerners but many knowledgeable Chinese know that there are financial aid programs for minorities. Similar to that of financial support from Canadian government to the natives in northern Canada. In other words, the money from tax payers of developed areas in China feeds the people. The purpose of the programs is also quite similar to the Canadian government, (at least in the beginning): the people in those area need support. Unbelievable? I choose some source which can not be some propaganda from Chinese government to partially collaborate my claim (the source of income): http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB868829960463522500 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB868829960463522500 (BTW, the subjective speculation by the author about the motivation of the financial aid can satisfied the western readers but is far from the truth. These false claims happen all the time in almost all western media. The lies fuels anger and nationalism inside China which is not healthy in my personal view. Nobody in western world are aware of that) Another policy that is favorable to the minorities is the notorious "One Child Policy": All the Han Chinese can have only one child while the minorities include Tibetans are not restricted by the rule. Those information were never told by western journalist and Free Tibet Movement because they are opposite to the common belief that Chinese government is oppressive regime. The sprite of "Truth, nothing but truth" exist in science/technology/engineering. In politics and religion lies spread. "Politics, like religion, is a topic where there's no threshold of expertise for expressing an opinion. All you need is strong convictions." --Paul Graham http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
- eggy 10y agoThis will bring the Free Tibet movement to the front again for the next POTUS. I am sure China will put the 'safety' issue forward, and deflect the independence movement. Remember the earthquake of May 12, 2008 in Sichuan province, China, where over 68,000 people died, and more went missing. The focus in the media was on the houses not being up to standard building codes. The earthquake in Nepal in 2015 surely affected Tibet too, but information was controlled by China, so the numbers are questionable. Larung Gar is a sprawl of houses for monks, worshipers, students and visitors that could be seen as a potential earthquake hazard area as spun by Chinese media.
- oi5zkc 10y agoI visited Yaqing/Yachen mentioned at the bottom of the article about a month ago. The experience was surreal. In the middle of nowhere, 4 hours from the nearest city, the monastery is a sprawling complex of huts around the bend in a river in the tibetan tundra. Here are some pictures: http://imgur.com/a/v4gYI http://imgur.com/a/v4gYI The hygienic conditions are very poor - people doing their business squatting on the streets, no toilets, rubbish everywhere. I am surprised that was not an argument being made by the government for the demolition. There is some concern about foreign - especially American and British - influence on Tibetan Buddhists in the government. I am not sure this move will serve to diminish this influence. Ps: on another note, a surprising number of these ascetic monks had an iPhone 6s+ or Samsung S7 in their pockets!
- kweks 10y agoLarung Gar is quite clean. Whilst the living conditions are basic, it's certainly not a slum. The surrounding towns definitely have a lower standard of living. As you noted, I spent time hanging out in teahouses with monks passing their afternoons on their iphones w/ flawless 4G / LTE connections :)
- tim333 10y ago>iPhone 6s It's a funny thing with monks. Quite a few are former businessman who want to try something more spiritual for a change but still are wealthy. I walked a bit with a young monk on the way to Tengboche Monastery and his main interest as we talked seemed to be designer sunglasses and which brand would be good to get.
- coldtea 10y ago>It's a funny thing with monks. Quite a few are former businessman who want to try something more spiritual for a change but still are wealthy. So mostly phonies being tourists in spiritual-land?
- nsomaru 10y agoRenunciation is defined with reference to your mental attitude towards possessions, not the presence or absence thereof. See, for example the 'Royal Sage' (Raja Rshi).
- eisvogel 10y agoThis is ass. It's time for a regime change.
- mac01021 10y agoI didn't notice in the article any mention of why there is a population limit set for this town. Is it explicitly a measure taken to limit solidarity in a religious/ethnic minority? Is there a concern about the food supply?
- afandian 10y agoWhy does any genocide happen?
- mac01021 10y agoNormally the people instigating it give a reason. I'm asking what reason has been given by the PRC in this case. Also, it's not clear to me that this qualifies as genocide.
- afandian 10y agoGenocide is the systematic eradication of an ethnic or religious group. You can't look at China's actions over the last fifty odd years and come to any other conclusion. The reason given by the instigator (either for the top level or individual actions) is of interest but probably doesn't have much truth to it.
- jmknoll 10y agoYour account has been active for 5 years. You should be aware that racism and non-constructive comments are not really acceptable here.
- shrugger 10y agoYeah, free speech only for people that you agree with. Gotcha.
- HowardMei 10y agoYou're downvoted because you violated political correctness of foreign affairs. Political Correctness = Fine tuned reports from the media leading some topics + Lazy and emotional followers with little first-hand experience + Political groups representing a few radical protestors. These politically correct people never reflect on their worldview despite repeat messup, because thinking like that makes them feel good and it's morally correct! However, the realities are more complicated than the reported 'facts' with purposefully tuned spectrum.
- snnn 10y agoSorry, I edited the reply and removed the description of shower. My remark was not meant as a slight on them. I just want to show you what I know about them. Most people do not have a chance to see how poor Chinese lives, because the information you can get is controlled by China propaganda machine. Beautiful Beijing, huge international airport, rich buyers. Even you already have a Chinese Visa, you can't travel to Tibet without special authorization. In most cases, the officer would reject your application and tell you Beijing already has a big Buddhism Lama temple in its heart so you can get everything you want to know at there. And, as we are talking about human rights here, please take a look on another side: The Tibet itself. If there were no communists, would it get a better human right record? How do they treat women? Why male student can get a scholarship but females can’t? Could the U.S. government offer any help to this? The people in this news lives in another society, none of them has western education, so you can’t wish them conforming to western standards. How can you convince them in a peaceful way?
- abrbhat 10y agoSeems to be retaliation for this: http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-international/obamadalai-lama-meet-will-hurt-mutual-trust-says-beijing/article8738775.ece http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-international/obamad...
- whistlerbrk 10y agoRemember when free trade was going to democratize and open China? What happened? This is terrible
- andy_ppp 10y agoI do not understand the cowardice and fear the Chinese government seem to have of a small buddhist settlement in the middle of nowhere high up in the mountains of Tibet... It looks like they feel the opposite of a superpower and that a few buddhist monks might threaten them so much they have to destroy them. It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories.
- paavokoya 10y ago>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories. Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian reservations or gentrified urban areas.. Or perhaps research Japanese internment camps in WW2. Or hell even look up Guantanamo Bay today. Superpowers flexing their muscle on a "threatening few" is extremely common.
- adventured 10y agoWhat do those examples have to do with the parent not understanding the Chinese Government's cowardice and fear? I don't regard it as insulated thinking at all. It makes perfect sense to be bewildered by such a disgusting display of cowardice and irrational fear by China. Someone on a public forum says: X nation is doing a bad thing; one of the responses inevitably is: yeah but the US did a bad thing. There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums.
- munin 10y ago> There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums. there kind of is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
- DblPlusUngood 10y agoHere are even more names for this fallacy: tu quoque and whataboutism.
- nxzero 10y agoChina's obsession with the destruction of Tibet and its culture is truly troubling. If China has its way, hundreds of years from now, Tibet will be gone, no record of it will exist, etc.
- lostlogin 10y agoWho remembers the Tibetians?
- colordrops 10y agoAnd yet people are more concerned about ancient statues blown up by muslim extremists. This seems like it shall be a greater tragedy by at least an order of magnitude.
- gscott 10y agoChina has some seriously evil leaders.
- huahaiy 10y agoAllow me to share some of my perspectives. I grow up in Seda County in the late 70 and early 80s, and am intimately familiar with culture there. Tibetan Buddhism is not what people in the west think what it is. It is actually quite repressive and brutal. After 1950s, many regular Tibetans were glad to worship the new religion of Chairman Mao instead. Yes, it was true. Chairman Mao was worshiped as one of major Gods at Tibet when I grow up there. Then Deng Xiaoping took power and demolished Chairman Mao worshiping (one of his major blunders, on the same scale as that of 89 Tienanmen massacre), now we got this huge slum town of "religious learning" at a hot basin of Buddhist rebellions. Yes, going unchecked, that town would surely become such a terrorists base, because Buddhist monks in that area had always been very militant and had launched numerous rebellions in 60 and 70s. As a child, I heard all kinds of horrific stories Tibetan monks and their rebellious army inflicted on the Chinese soldiers and civilians alike. For that reason, many Han Chinese families kept firearms at home in that area, a rare thing in China. On the other hand, Tibetan people in general are good people. One of my cousins married a Tibetan man and we are good drinking buddies. However, Tibetan religious upper class are representatives of a theocracy at worst: greedy, deceptive and brutal. I am surprised that this town was tolerated for so long. I guess Deng's power was still strong even after his death.
- tim333 10y ago>going unchecked, that town would surely become such a terrorists base Sounds a bit unrealistic to me. You haven't been getting your information from Chinese government controlled sources by any chance? I see they called the Dalai Lama holding a prayer session for monks who had killed themselves terrorism in disguise so I can see how you could worry too much buddhism could lead to prayer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/19/dalai-lama-prayers-tibetans-terrorism https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/19/dalai-lama-pra...
- huahaiy 10y agoNah, I grow up there. I knew the people. Using a Game of Throne analogy, Tibetan people are like free folks (or wildings) and Han people are like people south of the wall. When I was there growing up, every male Tibetan carry weapons (including boys) on their body. They are a militant people, yes they are deviant Buddhists too, but that doesn't mean they are not militant.
- 31reasons 10y agoOf all people the residents of the town will be the least unhappy about it. Because they truly know everything is impermanent. Its their practice and will see it as part of nature. Today I shall not buy anything Chinese. I wish there was a supermarket that sold things not made in China.
- discardorama 10y agoChinese are bullies. And bullies pee in their pants when faced with real resistance. That's the best way to describe it.
- dang 10y agoYou can't post comments like this to HN. Thoughtful critique is fine, but putting things provocatively and offensively on purpose is not fine, and doing that to slur an entire people (whether or not their government did a bad thing) is a bannable offense. Please don't do it again. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11929011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11929011 and marked it off-topic.
- sova 10y agoWhat great sadness and folly. Oh may the future be free of such mindless pursuit of conquest.
- ommunist 10y agoSo what? This is a normal procedure. Authorities set ceiling of no more than 5000 dwellers there. That was ignored. Face the concequences. For those curious - China is colonising Tibet, nothing wrong in industrial nation wiping out the weakling. When the British colonised Americas they did the same with more than 600 First Nations. They just did it earlier.