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If their argument holds in court, wouldn't this mean that they could go after Google too, on the premise that if you add "Torrent" to your search request, it di
by JohnLeTigre 10y ago
If their argument holds in court, wouldn't this mean that they could go after Google too, on the premise that if you add "Torrent" to your search request, it directs you to illegal content and that (according to their skewed logic) this would imply that Google "contains or promotes" illegal material/activity.
The internet contains and promotes everything.
- JoshTriplett 10y agoThey do attempt to go after Google; search https://www.lumendatabase.org/ https://www.lumendatabase.org/ for notices sent to Google. (That doesn't make it reasonable to do so; just noting the current state.)
- hasenj 10y agoGoogle does comply with DMCA. Google is not setup explicitly for the purpose of finding pirated material. The pirate bay is. And it's pretty obvious from the name too. I don't see how their logic is "skewed".
- dragandj 10y agoHow do you mean The Pirate Bay is set up explicitly for finding pirated material? Where does that come from? They are set up for finding torrents. Torrents can be and often are completely legitimate. Sometimes they contain pirated material, but even that material is never in contact with TPB site. About the name: Yes, it contains the word "Pirate". It doesn't mean that the actual pirates are there. Also, Amazon is a legitimate online store, not a river with a surrounding jungle. Kayak does not sell kayaks, and Apple is not about apples at all.
- efdee 10y agoTake a look at https://thepiratebay.org/browse https://thepiratebay.org/browse. Do you still want to argue that TPB was not set up for finding pirated material?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago> Do you still want to argue that TPB was not set up for finding pirated material? Providing metadata is now sufficient to be infringing? If I SHA256 hash my entire media library and post it online, is that infringing?
- hasenj 10y agoYour comparison is ludicrous. How would you like if someone found your address and posted detailed instructions about how to get to your house, what hours of the day you're not there, and what type of security (if any at all) is installed? Maybe along with other "metadata", such as information about your neighbours, your job, your family members, etc. Enough to enable someone to perform social engineering on your neighbour or relatives to get them to open the door for them when you're not there.
- analognoise 10y agoAnd a list of his deepest fears. Never forget the list.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ultramancool 10y agoThat's a bit of an insane analogy. Perhaps if they publish the my name instead? They don't even publish how to get that to my actual address. Instead the clients have to do the look it up in a phone book as they do in a DHT. An infohash is not exactly revealing metadata. Similar to publishing just your name and nothing else. Of course, it's still a pretty crazy stretch because a name reveals even more than the infohash does.
- joering2 10y agoLook like you been sleeping under the rock for the last 10 years. All what you mention I can find legally in free databases and Facebook, not to mention legal but pay-to-access sites too, or simply firing a PI. Just give me your full name and age (I don't need exact DOB) and bitcoin me 20 bucks for a few paid sites and I will delivery you a full detailed portfolio on your persona that will be 50 pages thick.
- efdee 10y agoTake a look at https://thepiratebay.org/browse https://thepiratebay.org/browse. Do you still want to argue that TPB was not set up for finding pirated material?
- serge2k 10y agoYou are either in denial or being deliberately obstinate if you claim the pirate bay isn't primarily used to facilitate piracy.
- dragandj 10y agoI do not care what some users use it for. In itself, TPB hosts magnet links (hash sums). That's all. What people use to calculate those sums is not under control of TPB.
- hasenj 10y agosome? That "some" portion is 99.999% of users. If you were honest, you would say "I don't care that 1% might be using it for legitimate torrents"
- dragandj 10y agoHow do you know? And even if it is - complain to those users. TPB does and can not control the contents that users use to calculate hashes. 100% of hashsums on TPB are legal. These are genuine numbers. They don't even uniquely identify the (supposedly illegitimate) contents on users' computers since different sources can produce identical hashsums.
- rhizome 10y agoHow did you come up with "99.999%?" Please show your work.
- techthroway443 10y agoCheck out the Top100 links to get an idea how the site is used.
- dragandj 10y agoAll I can see is that people use it to advertise the TOC of their folders. The links do not even guarantee that the files in those folders match description. But, I don't see what TPB has with that? None of these is on TPB. The users don't even use TPB to connect, but to get magnet links that are only an entrance to the network. If I post this here: a4c5fd525f15cf929d6a38b0ccb854b4f88b2385 what can you claim about that hash?
- hasenj 10y agoDon't talk to me in legalese. I'm not a judge nor a lawyer. I'm not a policeman or a law enforcement agent of any type. We all know what TPB is for.
- Idontagree 10y agoWow, effective response, yeaaaaaaaaaaaa
- zbraniecki 10y agoAll we know is what you use it for. And maybe that you seem to not be aware of the legal content available on TPB.
- Retr0spectrum 10y agoWe all know. However, this is a legal issue. To my knowledge, TPB has never explicitly stated an illegal intent. Google indexes both legal and illegal content, and the same goes for TPB. Some examples: Legal: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/14396611/ubuntu-16.04-desktop-amd64.iso https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/14396611/ubuntu-16.04-deskt... Illegal: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=game+of+thrones+s06e07+google+docs&oq=game+of+thrones+s06e07+google+docs https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=game+of+thrones+s06e07+goo... Illegal: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1080p+google+docs https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1080p+google+docs
- joering2 10y agoIncredible especially google docs sources. just press play and enjoy 1080p!
- benmcnelly 10y agoAnyone else get a cool little "A privacy reminder from Google" link at the top?
- ikeboy 10y ago>Google indexes both legal and illegal content, and the same goes for TPB. The difference is that the DMCA says it's okay as long as you take it down when you get a DMCA notice, which Google, but not TPB, does.
- matt4077 10y agoThat argument simply isn't made in good faith, and it's a nice example of how the law doesn't work.
- avn2109 10y agoI routinely use the Pirate Bay to find torrents of Linux distros that are not even approximately "pirated material." It does have legitimate use cases.
- 542458 10y agoAs an aside to the actual argument at hand... Why not use the official downloads and torrents? Seems like you're exposing yourself to unnecessary risk like this, unless you're religious about checking every download signature against the official ones.
- Spivak 10y agoFor the same reason that people used CNET in the past for downloading software.
- pdabbadabba 10y agoThis is true (I too have used it to download a distro from time to time), but it is simply not responsive to GP's point, which is that, unlike Google, TPB does not comply with DMCA takedown requests and is "setup explicitly for the purpose of finding pirated material." When it comes to piracy, Google's situation is exactly opposite of TPB's: TPB is primarily designed to facilitate piracy, does not comply with DMCA takedown requests, and has incidental noninfringing uses. Google is not primarily designed to facilitate piracy, does comply with DMCA takedown requests, and only incidentally facilitates piracy.
- jacquesm 10y agoWhy should the DMCA apply at all? It's an American law. The fact that it implements WIPO treaties does not change that fact, in other words, being DMCA compliant is not something that entities outside of the USA should have to be.
- joering2 10y ago> How do you mean The Pirate Bay is set up explicitly for finding pirated material? I have a problem with his logic too. I use Pirate bay for finding free non copyrighted PDFs and bunch of non profit free to public copy videos and TPB search engine is the best and the fastest one. I don't recall using it to search for illegal stuff even once, just because it has Pirate in its name. Federal Express has "federal" in its name, but it doesn't mean its a government entity...
- anigbrowl 10y agoAbout the name: Yes, it contains the word "Pirate". It doesn't mean that the actual pirates are there. But they are. It's like a place where you go to meet people to transact shady business, even if the actual transaction technically takes place elsewhere (ie outside the back door).
- dragandj 10y agoSo, they should close Starbucks because some people meet there and later discuss their shady business elsewhere?
- pdabbadabba 10y agoHave you seen TPB AFK? It could not be clearer that they are intentionally facilitating piracy. You can make the case that they are doing it for ideological reason. That may (or may not) be laudable, but that does not have much bearing on the legal reality.
- dragandj 10y agoI check it out regularly, and I have never found an illegal hashsum there. Moreover, most times the magnet links their users posted there worked great and I used them to successfully connect to other users who shared their contents with me.
- squeaky-clean 10y ago>I check it out regularly, and I have never found an illegal hashsum there. Huh? TPB: AFK is a film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2608732/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2608732/
- dragandj 10y agoDidn't know of that. Thanks for the info. I thought he was referring to TPB.
- JohnLeTigre 10y agothe fact that they enable people to search for things does not remove the honus from individuals as to whether or not they should do illegal acts. For example, it is not because a dictionnary has a definition of the word "murder" that suddenly it creates murderers. There is no causality.
- notahacker 10y agoIf I set up a website called MurderBay consisting of listings of people available to er... perform tasks, I'd expect law enforcement to try to take down my site as well as the people actually using it to procure assassins. Especially if the vast majority of links listed on my website were to assassins' contact information and my site was well known for the blog articles I'd published telling parties requesting I remove assassins' contact information to "go sodomize yourself with retractable batons."
- pbhjpbhj 10y agoConspiracy to commit murder is a crime in itself though, as is offering to murder for hire, conspiracy to commit copyright infringement isn't AFAIAA. Also copyright is a tort, murder is a crime. The part about you being asked to take down information is also not analogous. A better analogy IMO would be a website that gave you directions to get information as to where there was a gap that you could use to access a private beach, both are giving information that allows you to later commit a tort. Such a website would be any search engine.
- yxlx 10y ago>AFAIAA As Far As I Association of America?
- icebraining 10y ago"am aware", presumably.
- 10y ago
- strictnein 10y agoAgreed, although I've filed a number of DMCA requests and Google was always completely unresponsive. MegaUpload was the most responsive.
- wolfgke 10y ago> Google does comply with DMCA. And the pirate bay is hosted in a country where the DMCA isn't law.
- Spivak 10y agoUsing this as a defense isn't wise because then the motivation is simply to make it law everywhere with trade agreements.
- tacos 10y agoLikewise the legal system lets you file a complaint against anyone for anything. You pick and choose based on likely results. Domino theory does not apply here.
- 6stringmerc 10y agoSounds like a plausible outcome. The RIAA is extremely mad at Google - specifically YouTube - for what they believe is lost revenues. I'd be willing to wager a large sum of money that your postulation is correct, and that would be the next step. Some might think me cynical but I have developed my opinion of RIAA after quite a bit of outside study.
- rhizome 10y agoThe RIAA is extremely mad at the Internet as a whole. They make demands for companies to kowtow to their preferences and don't even try help devise solutions to their perceived problems, only coming up with half-steps like SoundExchange.
- inanutshellus 10y agoI'm curious what they're "extremely" mad about... AFAIK YouTube is a poster child for the RIAA as a massive cash cow. Google auto-detects copyrighted works and all uses of a copyrighted content in a video, even fair-use (including background-noise e.g. having the TV on in the background when you video your child's first steps) give the RIAA a payback. Certainly they're still vigilantly sending take-down notices for content they want removed, but... by-and-large, it's gotta be dump trucks of free money to their doorsteps...
- toyg 10y agoWhat it is and what they say it is are different concepts.
- chris11 10y agoI'd think the RIAA would be much happier if music wasn't available for free so easily. And YouTube is a great place to find music legally. Getting free money isn't great at all if they think that the free money is from other companies destroying more profitable distribution channels. I definitely don't agree with that. But companies wouldn't have sued YouTube asking for over a billion in damages if they wanted to do business with them.
- hetfeld 10y agoYour comment directs me to Google which directs me to The Pirate Bay which directs me to Host that contains illegal material.
- spike021 10y agoReminds me of when..uh.. Beyonce(?).. didn't like the Superbowl photo taken of her, so she had lawyers attempt to remove all copies from the Internet. We all know nothing escapes the Internet once it's on there.
- JshWright 10y agoIt wasn't "Beyonce", it was Beyonce's publicist (it's unlikely Beyonce knew anything about the request), and they didn't try to "remove all copies from the internet", they just sent BuzzFeed an email asking them to take it down. BuzzFeed, being BuzzFeed, decided to make a big deal out of it (gotta get those eyeballs).
- spike021 10y agoThanks for the correction!