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From web dev to 3D: Learning 3D modeling
- igl 10y agoHowever: It won't be an career upgrade :/ I know very talented people and i guess that unless land a well paying job in the gaming or movie industry (good luck with that) you end up freelancing for construction companies and architects. Aligning sofas and tables...
- freshfey 10y agoI think VR might be able to change this and open more doors for people here.
- basiclaser 10y agoYeh i think levels is generally quite forward-thinking. He's gonna turn this into a VR game IIRC
- galfarragem 10y agoAnd the best part: he will live on a rollercoaster riding the economic cycles..
- pieterhg 10y agoYep. I'm not doing it to do client work. I already have a my own startup that gives me income. I want to do stuff with VR though as a maker, entrepreneur, artist, or however you'd like to call it. If it's monetizable that's a fun side to it. But that's not the priority here. Fun is! I do see it as a skill in the future, just like coding is now. If you can combine that with making an app, game, art, business or anything really, that's good for me.
- vvanders 10y ago3D stuff is definitely fun(I say this as someone who's been doing it for almost 10 years across various industries), however the one thing is the amount of work you need to do is an order of magnitude higher than traditional 2D media + code. That usually scares off all but the most serious funding. Once you start playing with Unity you'll see there's a whole nother side of the 3D pipeline that takes just as much effort.
- pen2l 10y agoI have no experience with Unity. Can you please explain the kind of work involved? (btw I have no interest in gaming, but am interested in all non-gaming things you could possibly do with 3d-modeling, Unity, etc.)
- vvanders 10y agoDealing with interchange formats(which Maya and 3DSM excel at, no idea on C4D). It's very common to find that something you've build in your authoring package doesn't import cleanly and figuring out why can take time. If you bring animation in at all you'll have to deal with skeletal rigging, and then the tooling you want to build around interaction on the unity side of things. There's a reason that games budgets end up running very high unless you're dealing with 2D/simplified content.
- TrevorJ 10y agoThere's a lot of optimization that needs done for realtime. For any given asset you may have a pipeline like so: Sculpt hi rez model in Z brush > create low rez model and retopologize (can be a very manual process) > UV unwrap and bake the high rez details down to Normal maps for the low rez mesh > Use DDO or Substance painter to create custom textures for diffuse, metalness, etc > Rig model (if you are animating it) Then export to the engine. Rinse and repeat based on major art changes.
- 542458 10y agoHey Peiter - your scene looks great, especially for a first time. If you're already in Cinema 4D you should look into the various post-processing and rendering options. I think a little bit of DoF, ambient occlusion, global illumination and volumetric light could really make your scene shine.
- pieterhg 10y agoNice! I'll try that for sure. I'll be improving it over the next few weeks but wanted to get this out for the deadline!
- arscan 10y agoSince this is for fun for you (in the short term at least), did the price tag of Cinema4D come into play when choosing it as your tool? I've been getting into 3D as well as a hobby, and given a choice I'd use Cinema4D because it is popular among professionals in the domain I'm interested in, but that $3k+ price tag is hard for me to justify.
- mikevin 10y agoYou could start with Blender. It's very advanced and totally free.
- khedoros 10y agoBlender's pretty awesome. I've been using it since it was Not-a-Number shareware. I think that the "Free Blender" campaign was the first crowdfunding attempt that I ever experienced. It's been awesome watching the program continue to grow and flesh out with pro-level features over time!
- butabah 10y agoI'm also a programmer who does 3d modeling as a hobby. I'd never do 3d modeling as a job. Not only does it pay less, but a lot of the novelty would be lost. There's something endearing about being able to come home, shrug off my job for a bit, and model something.
- asimuvPR 10y agoYou can do prosthetics to a certain degree, too.
- Animats 10y agoTo do 3D modeling professionally, you have to be very good and very fast, and have very clear mental images of what you're doing. I used to do physics engines for animation software, so I've met people in Hollywood who do theatrical animation. I've seen an animator draw a face by freehand drawing cross sections (circle for the top of the head, bigger circle, curves with indents for the eyes and outdents for the nose, etc.) and then have the program skin the result. The result was a good face model, the first time. Pros and amateurs use drawing programs quite differently. Pros don't edit much. They redraw. They don't spend a lot of time pulling control points around. There are 3,467 union animators in Hollywood, according to The Animation Guild. It's not a big field.
- wukerplank 10y agoI don't know the 3D scene in Hollywood. But skimming the credits at ends of blockbuster movies reveals that a lot of the 3D work is being done in eastern Europe or in the Far East. How much is really produced in higher-wage countries?
- Animats 10y agoThere's a lot of outsourcing. In 2013, Rhythm and Hues both won an Academy Award and went bankrupt. Simply providing a clipping path which separates the foreground from a background is widely outsourced. Effects movies use this heavily. It's manual green screen. Some outsourcing companies for this job: clippingpathindia.com offshoreclippingpath.com clippingpathasia.com This ought to be automated by now, but apparently the automated approaches are not good enough yet.
- gjolund 10y agoThere is a lot more to that story, and to say it was entirely due to outsourcing is a half truth. That being said the state of the industry in Hollywood, especially for animators and artists, is pretty dire.
- robbs 10y agoPlenty of 3D work is done in Vancouver and London. I don't have real statistics but 3D work is done all over the place, low wage and high wage areas.
- aaronwidd 10y ago3D modeling is a prerequisite skill for emerging tech like VR/AR/MR. The ability to manipulate 3D models competently is soon going to be a pretty essential foundation, like using photoshop
- galfarragem 10y ago>> I knew the existence of 3d software like Maya and 3d Studio Max. But they seemed like Java and C++ to me. Great for pros, but not simple at all. I wanted to find the JavaScript of 3d. Simple, easy and pratical. I found that in Cinema4D So I would consider Sketchup as the Ruby of 3D.
- copperx 10y agoSketchup is pretty cool, but can you export the models to say, Unity? can you animate stuff?
- galfarragem 10y agoYou can animate (Pro version at least) and it has some export options (unity I'm not sure). You can also use Ruby to script it. Sketchup is underrated and considered 3D for amateurs but people don't know that most architectural offices use it during early stages of projects. You can't beat its speed and usability.
- bhouston 10y agoBTW most of what you can do in using the Cinema4D desktop software package, you can do for free in your web browser using https://clara.io https://clara.io
- b123400 10y agoI am always amazed by how motivated Pieter is, he seems to just do it whenever he has an idea. I have lots of friends saying/claiming that they have a new goal (e.g. diet, learn new things, work out, etc) and do absolutely nothing, then switch to another goal again.
- toxik 10y agoThe trick is to only say you've done things after you've actually done them.
- pieterhg 10y agoHaha yes, but I said it before I did it though: https://levels.io/learning-3d https://levels.io/learning-3d The public pressure helps to keep me accountable, and it's more fun if I have an audience :)
- kayoone 10y agoTo call 3d modeling "3d development" and saying it's all in one package vs web development where you have css, html, serverside stuff is kind of a moot point though. It is comparable to 2D design work that you need in web development as well and arguably that's also all in one package (eg. Photoshop) and the endresult is an image file, same as 3D. 3D Development on the other hand would be using something like Unity3d/Unreal Engine to bring 3d Models, Animations, Sounds and Code together to build a game (vs a website/app) which adds a lot of complexity as well.
- TrevorJ 10y agoIt's a lot like coding in that: technically you could do everything in a simple text editor, but in reality, there are a plethora of tools and frameworks that you should know and use to do your job effectively. I maintain familiarity in 10 - 12 pieces of software for game dev, and there are several other tools I'd like to learn.
- helb 10y agoNote: If you are on mobile connection with FUP, you might now want to open this link. It loads tens of megabytes (mostly full-size screenshots shrunk into the page).
- pieterhg 10y agoYep. I just added lazyload though, but it does have some heavy images. I'll optimize those later. Sorry about that
- jscheel 10y agoHeh, I did the opposite. I went to school for animation, certain Pixar would snap me up.
- rawnlq 10y agoYou can probably show off your model to world with little effort using three.js. If you can export it as obj/mtl then you can probably just adapt this code: http://threejs.org/examples/#webgl_loader_obj_mtl http://threejs.org/examples/#webgl_loader_obj_mtl
- davydka 10y agoIt's not that easy. Loading obj's into three.js is like trying to open a jpg in '94. Everything has to be exported just right otherwise three.js will just throw an error. It's sort of arcane.
- rawnlq 10y agoAh I didn't know. I usually have no trouble loading simple models from blender on clara.io so I assumed it will just work with more complex scenes.
- ngokevin 10y agoWeb developers looking to get into 3D and modeling should check out A-Frame (https://aframe.io/ https://aframe.io/) which is an abstraction on top of three.js.
- amelius 10y agoThat's a lot of work for something that can be done automatically [1] [1] http://www.cs.unc.edu/~marc/pubs/PollefeysCACM02.pdf http://www.cs.unc.edu/~marc/pubs/PollefeysCACM02.pdf
- 542458 10y agoThat's not how it works. 3D scanning and scanning-like techniques serve a very different purpose than actually 3D modelling the thing, and are in no way a substitute. - You need considerable 3D domain knowledge to employ the scanning tool correctly in the first place, and to post-process it's results - The scanning tools don't work in many situations - have fun scanning something transparent, reflective, that won't sit still etc etc etc. The curtains in this scene, or the translucent lamps, and so on would all be very, very problematic - The scan gives a noisier result than doing it by hand (Look at the model quality in figure 1, last step - it's pretty bad - that would be really, really apparent in a higher-res moving scene). High-end laser or contact scanners are better, but very expensive. - Scan topography is currently really bad from every suite I've seen, and not really ideal for anything other 3D printing or using as a reference for building a proper 3D model.
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago3D scanning and scanning-like techniques serve a very different purpose than actually 3D modelling the thing, and are in no way a substitute That's too broad to be true and your examples below don't say anything about the fundamentals of 3D scanning. It also ignores causality - in that some things are built in 3D first and then fabricated (extruded/milled etc...) while others are fabricated then scanned. So the 3D data around each can't really be compared in the same sense. In fact photogrammetry and laser scanning is getting to the point of eclipsing hand modeling for pretty much anything that is not a result of a CAD model. See: Our photogrammetry patent
- TrevorJ 10y ago3D scanning is a a great tool, but in addition to manual modeling. The scanned data is a great place to start, but if you want to animate the item, or use it in any sort of realtime or near realtime application you will be replacing every single polygon using a mix of manual modeling work and other algorithmic tools. Raw scan data is a fantastic starting point but it's not an end to end solution.
- criddell 10y agoWhat are some good libraries if your goal is to programmatically generate solid models? For example, if I want to model a coffee cup, I might define the cross section then revolve it 360 degrees. I know of OpenCascade, but was wondering if there were others.
- 542458 10y agoopenSCAD is probably the biggest name in that domain.
- ngokevin 10y agoCheck out ShaderToy and raymarching: http://iquilezles.org/www/articles/distfunctions/distfunctions.htm http://iquilezles.org/www/articles/distfunctions/distfunctio...
- jononor 10y agoFreeCAD, which uses OpenCascade as the kernel, is scriptable from Python. Open the Py console and do actions in the UI, it will show the corresponding code. Don't understand why you'd want to so the coffee cup example programatically though, can be done nicely parametric from the GUI, with more direct manipulation..
- pmille5 10y agoThat was a pretty quick and awesome example of immersive learning.
- antjanus 10y agoCinema4D is probably the easiest-to-use 3D program I've gotten my hands on. I tried 3DS Max, Maya, and spent a good deal of time on Blender as well yet it's got nothing on Cinema4D which is a joy to work with. I mean, just texturing and lighting alone makes it a huge deal as opposed to its competitors. It's simple and makes everything look beautiful. Texturing is drag 'n drop and you have access to global lighting (which doesn't exist in Blender from the get-go).
- wsc981 10y agoA long while ago I bought Cheetah3D [0] (Mac OS X only) since it seemed like an easy to use 3D modeller. I think assets can also be exported for games, etc… The app has some tutorials included to get you going. Sadly I still don't have enough time available to really dedicate myself to learning 3D modelling. Perhaps in the future… --- [0]: http://www.cheetah3d.com http://www.cheetah3d.com
- agumonkey 10y agoIt's funny, it all depends on the users mind. I dread anything 3ds/cinema4d like GUI/UX. I naturally tend to Maya/Houdini. I need the mathematical process and genericity of the later. Modo was tempting though, composable modeling tools .. what's not to like. Granted I haven't touched Cinema4D since 2003 :) it may have changed a lot.
- Keyframe 10y agoWhat makes you prefer texturing in Cinema4d? I've been using 3D DCC apps for now over 20 years, every day, but haven't gotten much into Cinema4D as of lately (been using it back on Amiga and when versions 5 through 7 XL were around). Nowadays, I prefer doing UVs in Headus UV Layout and textures outside of main apps (Maya, 3dsmax, Houdini), mostly either in Mari, Photoshop or even Zbrush.
- JTxt 10y agoYes, Cinema 4d has a reputation for being easy to use, I may give it a shot. I started with 3ds r4, then 3ds Max r2, blender, lightwave, maya. I've stuck with blender the most, partially because the ui is fast to use for me. It was not fast to learn, though that has improved. Granted, Cycles (Blender's global illumination renderer) is not selected by default, but it's a drop down at the top menu bar to switch. Then you can click "file" -> save "default settings". Here's the official Cycles demo reel: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wDRTjzLNK0g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wDRTjzLNK0g
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- dates 10y agoActually, if you get into it, there is so much cool overlap between webdev and 3d, with three.js and webGL and everything. A lot of people doing really cool stuff in that space, one person to check out and get you down that rabbit hole is Vince McKelvie- really amazing stuff. https://vincemckelvie.com/Potluck/Backflips/ https://vincemckelvie.com/Potluck/Backflips/
- haywirez 10y agoI've also made my own ThreeJS adventure for a site dedicated to my latest electronic music EP: https://rawfare.com/bomb https://rawfare.com/bomb I did not design the model[0], but asked the artist to export it after the animated video was done and used it to make a simple gamified online shrine. It was a lot of fun to reason in 3D for a change. [0] http://jellygummies.com http://jellygummies.com
- iamcreasy 10y ago> I tell the owner I modeled his bar and street for weeks. He seems impressed but also completely oblivious why anyone would pursue such an endeavor. The best part of this article is when a learning endeavor turned into a visit to another country.
- JoeDaDude 10y ago>> I’m slightly shaking and shocked. I’ve been in this street for ages, inside Cinema4D. Now I’m actually there. When I flew to San Francisco for the first time, I was shocked that I recognized the all bay scenery from having played many hours of Flight Simulator going from Oakland to SFO.
- ratsimihah 10y agoYES YES YES YES! I just read the title and the first line of the post but this is super exciting!
- ratsimihah 10y agoI finished looking at the images and this is super impressive! Seeing the place in person must've felt so good!
- fgandiya 10y agoWow dude, those are some great scenes. I just finished a computer graphics class where we learned about the algorithms involved in computer graphics using python, which was super hard. I just wish I knew how to make pretty things with it...
- agumonkey 10y agoImpressive dedication. Still very naive but for a first try it is very impressive. A few things: - Non organic modeling is very programmatic, seek for symmetry in all things. Train yourself on wheel rims for instance. Then bevel, chamfer. All these details are very 'procedural' but they make the difference between a PS2 feeling and a feeling of beauty. Be lazy in a smart way, replicate and randomize the secondary details to give density to a scene. I don't know what blender gives today, try other tools, zbrush, modo, houdini, maya. They'll give you ways to express your ideas. - Organic modeling... Andrew Loomis books about human figure gave a few life altering tips (most of them are free PDFs now). Also, search for mirai modeling bay raitt, martin kroll on youtube. - Lightning today global PR based lightning does a lot for you, but scenes are about 'emotion' not physics. Peek what you show, what you don't, and how you do. Hollywood movies are known reference for that, they exagerate, emphasize everything to draw attention and decorate important points in the composition. Unless your goal is to convey a more natural sensation in which case forget everything about hollywood :) Enjoy
- sol8 10y agoThe price point on major 3d software packages were always a deterrent for me. When I first got into 3d (back in the mid 90s) I used POV raytracer. Its 3d modelling from a more programmatic point of view... You describe your scenes in a 3d language. Something like… sphere{ <0,0,0>, 0.75} Pass your scene file to POV which then parses and renders it. You can make some beautiful stuff with it.
- dvtv75 10y agoBack in the early 90s, a friend of mine was using Imagine on his Amiga 500. I think it was 1992 that he showed me a rendering of the Enterprise-D, and how he had made a shield impact (and the subsequent flash) animation. He eventually ended up with an Amiga 2000 with an '020, I think. For years afterward, I confused Imagine with Lightwave, but of course they aren't actually related.
- artur_makly 10y agowho remembers Strata3d?!
- aaronwidd 10y agoVery cool to see someone else is making the leap! I just wrote a blog post about the same thing as it pertains to breaking into VR in general. Interestingly, I had dedicated a chunk to the prerequisite of 3D modeling and animation. Mine is no where near as good a post since I'm not an experienced blogger by any stretch of the imagination. But complementary I suppose.. I posted the link to HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11733068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11733068
- gfo 10y agoThis is awesome. Now I might go on Street View and find something nearby to do... Is there a simple transition from this program into Unity?
- andygor 10y agoSome people work in gardens after office, Pieter do 3D...