15 ms·

The Science of Making Friends

411 points by frostmatthew 10y ago

amelius 10y ago
Just wondering: can beginning a startup with new people be considered a good way to find new friends?
- nekomancer 10y ago
  Wouldn't you usually know them already before cofounding a startup with them? It seems like a pretty big committment.
  - newjersey 10y ago
    I agree that it sounds risky ti srarr a startup with people we dont know well enough to tell if our vision and interests align. That being said, I'd be willing to work on a not-for-profit side project or proof of concept.
- jey 10y ago
  I'd exercise caution about that, since eventually the startup will inevitably hit a rough patch and it'll be nice to have a social network other than the startup.
- gumby 10y ago
  They are more like family members, with all the positive and negative associations that entails.
  - Terr_ 10y ago
    And then mixing business with family... can be a problem.
- todd8 10y ago
  I began a startup over 20 years ago. Today, my two best friends are from that startup. Many others from that startup ended up being people that I greatly enjoy seeing and still get together with. (I've added the following in an edit because I realize that my answer isn't very useful without additional information.) My best friends actually didn't start the company with me, they happened to be some of the very first key people hired by the company--I didn't know them before that. In our startup, there were ups and downs and definitely challenges to overcome; in that kind of environment one really gets to know people's character and I was lucky enough to make friends with two really great guys. Additionally, I got to know many remarkable people this way. Years after the company was sold and all of us had gone our own ways professionally, I was on a second date with the woman that I am now married to. We were headed to one of her friend's house for a party. While walking up to the front door I asked for the names of the people I would be meeting (to make it easier to remember their names). To my surprise and my wife's her friends were the wives of the CFO and the COO from the company before we sold it. Today we enjoy seeing them socially and even vacation with them from time to time. So it's not just my very best friends that came from the startup its actually many friends. Some people from the company I'd like to see more, but understandably, there are also people that I usually avoid.
navait 10y ago
I've certainly found myself in the difficult position of having moved to a place where I know nobody. I read "How to win friends and influence people", hoping I could learn how to make better friends with it. It's easy to go to meetups and make shallow connections with small talk, but getting people to talk to me is like pulling teeth, a lot of single sentence reponses and no attempt to further the conversation.
- blablablame 10y ago
  Do you do any sports? Tennis/golf clubs are great for meeting people. Gyms as well. You can't expect to have a new bff in 2 days, but you will meet people from all walks of life and maybe it will click with one or two. As for the talking part, I think people need to be good listeners, but at start, people need to be great storytellers. If you have a story or two about you/something, that is funny and you can intrigue people, you can be sure folks will stick around... 'Regarding the recent crime wave, when I was a teenager and I went camping with some friends and we noticed we ran out of toilet paper while one of us was on the can... not having a lot of options, we had to resort to crime... we went around trailers..... etc' Seems harmless enough, but its a story I tell a lot with a bit more details and pauses, takes about 5 minutes, makes people laugh (we were caught stealing the Toilet paper) and opens up folks. If you have a few funny real stories to tell, you will always find engagement from folks much nicer than 'ohh so what do you do? any kids? etc' that most people end up doing
- lobotryas 10y ago
  From the body language you describe it sounds like those people don't actually want to continue talking with you (for whatever reason). Carnegie is great. Follow up by reading a book or two about body language. While it's far from a hard science, it'll give you some more insight into what a person is thinking/feeling.
  - WA 10y ago
    I think the Carnegie book isn’t that great, because it’s easy to misinterpret the rules. An often mentioned strategy is to be a good listener. This gets repeated ad nauseam, but is it actually true? I found that people become more open if you put a story on the table first. It’s like an investment. You open yourself a little bit and tell something about yourself, whereas a question about the other person asks them to trust you first.
hodwik 10y ago
> "People with higher I.Q.s were less content when they spent more time with friends. Psychologists theorize that these folks keep themselves intellectually stimulated without a lot of social interaction, and often have a long-term goal they are pursuing." Therein lies the rub. Having friends makes you happier, as long as your friends are intellectually stimulating. I've been trying desperately for years to make some intellectually stimulating friendships, and it's quite difficult. In part, I think, because I am a generalist, and most smart people are specialists. As a result, I don't run in the same circles as they do. When I do make a friend who is smart, chances are they will end up moving across country for a new job, or will disappear into their research, and I'm back at square one. Are there any other generalists who have trouble making friends with other smart people, because they all seem to be specialists? Do you have any advice for generalists in need of smart friends?
- zafka 10y ago
  To start with, Put contact info in your hacker news profile. Then when you say interesting things, folks who are a bit more shy can contact you directly. Also reach out to those who interest you. Who knows, some of these brilliant generalists might have time to chat.
  - ljk 10y ago
    having contacts online isn't really the same thing as a "friend", right?
    - briantmaurer 10y ago
      Friendships don't materialize out of thin air, you have to start somewhere. If you would like to become friends with people on HN, posting contact info in your profile sounds like a good place to start.
    - Lockyy 10y ago
      There's no reason a single email can't turn into a solid long term friendship if things click. Some of my closest friends live across the country from me after meeting online.
artur_makly 10y ago
or u can just Rent A Friend : http://www.afar.com/magazine/the-incredibly-true-story-of-renting-a-friend-in-tokyo http://www.afar.com/magazine/the-incredibly-true-story-of-re... -- proven to work in japan. perhaps it could be repurposed for the US market. (although i dont think it would play out very well )
- abledon 10y ago
  I always thought it was fun when I was in a random group of people at a party and a couple of individuals were stoned... kinda rambling their ideas but really going far out there with the whats and ifs. It would be fun to have a service that paired you with an individual or group who wanted a 'guide' for their herb trips as they walked around the city / city parks / recreational outdoor areas. ------------------- Like, people could pick 'flavour' of guides. E.g.: [ x ] This Person A likes to talk and share his knowledge about bikes. [ x ] This PersonB likes to talk about Kant/Heigel and some other western philosophy. [ x ] This PersonC can do card tricks and has hilarious stories about his time overseas staying at 'X'. (ok now this is getting farfetched here, but hey people like doing stuff!) He also can wear a cape if you send a special request and bring a small jade plant. -------------------- MIght not need to even be monetized or anything, I think it would just be fun to connect with other random groups of people and put on a 'facade' of the 'guide', which in turn might create real friendships. (When we meet new people we usually are putting on a neutral facade of some sort and really only show our deeper layers once the intimate connections have had time to be laid down). Also , I think this meetup format is less akward because there is a preset goal in mind: E.g: THis person is going to be talking/showing/interacting around this theme/subject/activity. So this is similar to when people take courses in college (with preset goal of learning about course subject) and can form friendships more easily with people beside them/in discussion group (as the relationship has the prebuilt support already there to help it build around). This is kinda fun to rant on so maybe i will continue later but yes.... Rent A Friend style idea seems to have potential it could be sooo much more. could work on ideas of: Homogeneity of English Language. Would be fun to rent-a-friend but with goal of learning their native language. (E.G. hmm i am bored on a sunday afternoon, I know , I will practice my language with a rent-a-friend japanese speaker because I love the phonetics. (maybe the pairing will also speak japanese as 2nd language but that makes for another commonality base to talk around)
known 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation
Xcelerate 10y ago
I know people keep trying (unsuccessfully) to make startups that help you "find friends", but it would be nice if one of these actually took off. I currently live in an area where I find it somewhat difficult to make new friends, and I'm not entirely sure why that's the case. Generally speaking, the people where I live are more interested in football/beer than technology/startups, but I actually don't think that is the reason for my difficulty — I am good friends with some football fanatics, and there are some technically-minded people who I can't stand. (And I certainly don't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with football and beer — I merely point out that these are not interests of mine!) Honestly, I can't quite figure out what causes me to mesh well with some people and not others. I get along great with my girlfriend and my sister, and I can talk to them for hours even though neither is interested in science or technology. And I don't think it's morals/values either — I'm friends with people whose political views are completely opposed to my own. If someone can figure out what actually causes people to "click" with one another, then I think a startup for making friends might actually be successful.
- baron816 10y ago
  I think/hope my start up, Krewe (https://www.gokrewe.com https://www.gokrewe.com), has found the right formula. I believe the key elements are access and comfort. Krewe places people into a group with five of their peers, making it comfortable to hang out at first. You don't have to single anyone out, it works kind of how things worked in your youth. And everyone lives within a half mile radius, so it's really convenient to meet up often. As you say, having lots of stuff in common isn't usually the defining factor in what makes people "click." I think most people can get along with pretty much anyone, so long as they spend enough time together. When you're in school, that's built in since you have to show up to class everyday. Krewe makes it possible to hang out with your group everyday since everyone's within walking distance and can get together for a quick beer or whatever.
  - ChartsNGraffs 10y ago
    Cool idea. Just signed up!
  - 10y ago
andreygrehov 10y ago
What is friendship? Seriously. I'm curious to know how different the definition is across various people.
- Pluizer 10y ago
  My personal definition: If I can call a person for no reason other then to tell them my cat just spilled my coffee and I'm annoyed I consider him/her a friend. Maybe a strange one but I also consider people friends if I consider their insults directed to me funny.
oolongCat 10y ago
>A study published in February in the British Journal of Psychology looked at 15,000 respondents and found that people who had more social interactions with close friends reported being happier—unless they were highly intelligent. People with higher I.Q.s were less content when they spent more time with friends. Psychologists theorize that these folks keep themselves intellectually stimulated without a lot of social interaction, and often have a long-term goal they are pursuing. Does anyone have a link to this so called study? Funny how in academia you are required to reference everything but when it comes to journalism anything goes. ---edit---- Please ignore my request, I had a temporary brain fart, a Google search helped me find it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26847844 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26847844
- cubano 10y ago
  This TED talk https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good_life_lessons_from_the_longest_study_on_happiness https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good... makes the same point and used data from an 75y study.
  - oolongCat 10y ago
    This is incredible, thanks very much for sharing this. I really needed this.
- koluft 10y ago
  The "speculation" is the worst part of a science research. It gets the most air play but has but has the least basis in fact. Perhaps more intelligent people (by IQ test) are more introverted -- more thinking less feeling/EQ, and so are less comfortable with the company of other people they don't know well. That certainly fits the bookworm/ computer nerd / uberhobbyist type of high IQ person.
_ZeD_ 10y ago
obligatory http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bigbangtheory/images/f/ff/Freind1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121011222658 http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bigbangtheory/images/f/f...
jcoffland 10y ago
I find it difficult to find friends who are reliable. Many who seem to like me when we hang out are almost impossible to make plans with. They often respond by saying they need to check their schedule. Perhaps it's just a polite no. When we do get together everything is great but it seems so shallow. I have a lot of friends like this. Beyond the reliability issue I find it particularly hard to find highly intelligent friends. Most of my intellectual stimulation comes from my work but sometimes I find I want more. Many of the people I meet who are intelligent and in my field are socially inept. They can be intellectualy stimulating but deeper friendship is difficult.
- therealdrag0 10y ago
  Ditto. I've managed to meet one or two smart friends in each stage of my life. But they're kinda all over geographically so hard to be close with or see often.
SonicSoul 10y ago
someone once said something along: any relationship will thrive to a degree to which value is derived by both sides This helped me understand a few things. We all have childhood friends that once made sense but now if we met these people we wouldn't become friends. That's the exception to above rule, and i'm sure there are a few others, but generally that is a good way to understand why a friendship is working or ceases to be useful. It's something you can also use to acquire new friends or improve existing relationships. The value you offer may be as simple as being available (i.e. available to go out to meet possible romantic interests, available to pursue a new hobby together, available to blow off steam after work), actually listening and offering advice (advice part only works if the person looks up to you on a given subject and asks for it, unsolicited advice is the worst), being positive and seeking/seeing positivity in every situation/person (i've had friends that really helped me realize that people are in different stages of their life even when they seem obnoxious there's probably a good reason for it at the time so we shouldn't be quick to criticize and it's mostly a waste of time anyway). Most people don't actually think about this or put any effort into improving their value proposition but you'd be surprised how much difference that can make.
- mistermann 10y ago
  I would improve this to: any relationship will thrive to a degree to which perceived value is derived by both sides. I think a lot of people are stuck on a treadmill of success and would have a better life if they stopped to smell the roses, or talk to someone that maybe doesn't necessarily have an obvious way of adding value to their life.
  - dualogy 10y ago
    Whenever I thought long enough about value, I concluded that all value is perceived value, including any manner or definition of "intrinsic value".
zappo2938 10y ago
I worked on a boat in the middle of the ocean for many years. I've been grounded for the last few years and tried to make friends. The experiment has been a massive waste of time and energy. I did so much for so many people trying to be nice and helpful and got so little in return. From an economic point of view, I'm completely self reliant and don't need anything from anyone else. I invested so much in other people and I got nothing back. There is one case where I watched some guy's dog for a weekend, took someone else's boat into the ocean to save him when his engine died, helped him move all this uncles' stuff after the uncle committed suicide, go drinking with him downtown even though I didn't want to go out, ect.. I moved into a new apartment and needed help putting up new blinds. He kept making excuses to not help me even though he is a contractor. From now on, I don't help other people. I work, make money, and if I need help, I'll pay a stranger. I'm fine with that. I've grown convinced it is a myth that we need friends.
- BatFastard 10y ago
  I have found that "giving" with the expectation of getting something in return is just wrong headed. Give because you want to give. Of course you have to be careful of the takers. Friend of mine for many years was moving, he called me and asked me to help. I said "Roy, you are worth 10 million bucks, go pay someone to help you!" and he did. There are endless supplies of good people in the world. But it takes effort, and sometimes you are rejected. Live with it and move on.
  - zappo2938 10y ago
    When I was really young I lived in a small town and things were tight financially for most people. I guess helping each other when someone needed something was a not some virtuous thing but rather a form of currency. Hey, can you help wire the electric to the shack in the back yard. Sure, can your daughter watch my boys tonight. And, it continues like this. I disagree. I think there is a reasonable expectation that someone who is a contractor who consistently asks for large favors to help for a couple hour to put up blinds. I don't need friends.What we see in movies and the media is a myth, once again, an unobtainable expectation.
xchip 10y ago
What did you like about this article? The headline suggests it's going to explain something new and it just states the obvious. I see many articles fitting this pattern. Kind of the "5 ideas to lose weight" we saw a while back.
stegosaurus 10y ago
WRT the decline with age, I've always felt like a lot of it is 'ego based', for lack of better terms. I've found that as time goes on, people are far more concerned with doing things by the book, projecting an image, etc. rather than just 'being', enjoying life in the moment, doing things just because. I've certainly been guilty of this to some extent because it seems impossible to avoid. Personal anecdote: At age 16 it was fun to hang around at a bus stop or street corner or whatever and just chat bollocks. Move forward a bit and in college we'd hang out in someone's dorm room or flat or equivalent. Now everyone is off at work, spaced out all over the place. You might be able to get one or two people to do something, but it'll probably mean some sort of sanitized commercial experience (go and get pizza at a restaurant, pay to commute there, pay to commute back, etc). And it's all because we've sort of decided that working all the time is more important than being social. I think that's sad. I often wonder if it's how we end up with such warped political environments. No-one just relaxes, any more, it's all 40 hour weeks and 'scheduling appointments' months into the future. You grow up, and what were 20 kids, become a banker, a lawyer, a janitor, a policeman, a nurse, a dropout, a homeless guy, and so on. And it just doesn't work, because of all these rules we've made up, status games, location, whatever. Why can't we just go to the park again? And no, this isn't just about childhood friends moving away. It's the same story up and down the scale, in my experience. Everyone is busy, everyone is pushing. The community takes a back seat to economic needs, it seems. Something like that. I'm not sure. I know we still got stuff done back then, I have a bit of paper with a hologram on it that proves it. But it wasn't all consuming, somehow.
- stegosaurus 10y ago
  Christ, in some ways, this thread makes me want to just like, teleport some people from HN into the local park with some beers. I think we'd have a great time. No vi vs emacs, mind.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > eleport some people from HN into the local park with some beers. Park runs are fun (for various values of fun) and probably a good way to meet people.
nlh 10y ago
For all the negative things folks have been saying on here about SF (expensive, etc.) there's a huge positive that overshadows all of it for me: I've made more new friends in the last 3 years since I moved to SF than, I'd honestly say, my previous decade living in NYC. I'm 37 now and feel like I have more of a community than in college. I think the key to finding real friends and friendships is to be in a place where you're going to be surrounded by the kind of people you WANT to be friends with. It doesn't involve over-thinking or forcing it: I'm a 30-something dude who loves tech and being outside. There are a LOT of people like that in SF. I figured that out within a week of visiting 3 years ago, so I moved here. Say what you will about monoculture, but it sure made it easy and fun to find a community of people I liked (and vice versa).
- colmvp 10y ago
  Strange. I had the opposite experience. I made more friends in NYC in 2 years than real friends in SF in 4. That's not to blame people, because hey, it takes two to tango and my behavior sabotaged my own success. But even though I am in tech, I still never felt comfortable in the monoculture of SF than while in NY.
  - nlh 10y ago
    Interesting data point - thanks for sharing. Tell me more: how did you meet and make friends in NYC? In SF - I find there's a more intimate social scene -- more dinner parties than bar nights, so easier to have meaningful interactions. Maybe I'm just seeing the product of my own growing up...
    - koluft 10y ago
      I haven't been invited to any dinner parties with strangers to become friends with. My existing friends invite me to dinner parties.
  - radicality 10y ago
    Wondering too, how did you make friends in NYC? I'm finding it difficult.
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wskinner 10y ago
One point missed by this article (but mentioned by another commenter) is that it's not enough to just want more friends. It's not even enough to meet another person who also wants friends. What keeps friends together is perceived mutual exchange of value - it sounds callous, but I challenge anyone to describe a friendship that lasted where either party believed they derived no value. Our lizard brains aggressively pre-filter potential friends by estimating expected value add. One property that contributes to perceived value is scarcity, and this leads to a sort of counterintuitive result: it may be easier to make friends if you don't really want or need them (or at least you appear that way). If you are self-reliant, happy, and occupied most of the time, your time and attention are scarce (from the perspective of others). This signals value and makes others want to be your friend. Obviously, this doesn't mean you should be constantly unavailable. But it does mean that being constantly available to hang out, talk, do favors, etc. will probably make you less desirable as a friend.
- sloreti 10y ago
  "The only way to have a friend is to be one" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
- vt240 10y ago
  I've always imagined relationships as a reciprocity index which sounds similar to what you are describing here.
SFJulie 10y ago
Made a bot that was used for dating. Nothing smart, just visiting pages of other persons randomly between 1/3 days and normally triggering alarms. Girls thought I was shy. I thought nothing, only that my model of human beings was right: people prefer 100 bouquet of one rose then 1 bouquet of 100 roses. Since then, I stopped using bots even though it was successful and I prefered to learn from the bots : just be considerate, and even if you don't think of it consciously, because you may come back to where you were, you might influence positively people's opinion. Even cats and animals comes to me on a regular basis now (probably uncorrelated, but who knows?) Being polite and considerate does not always mean being lowering your eyes when you see a bully :) Since then, I make friends slower, but with more quality. and since my "turn over" in friendship is low, I kind of do not mind having enough time to share quality time with them.
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ajcarpy2005 10y ago
Most people also will expect there to always be some level of talking in social interactioms and feel awkward around pauses and silence. I believe this is because internally most people have not built up a constructive environment and use external activities and talking as a distraction rather than truly growth-inducing times. It feels awkward without the pauses though. If internally we need change - (WE do.) Change comes from within. - we need to make sure we aren't running on the same programming. Responding instantly and avooding pauses is not a new experience...
sdneirf 10y ago
If you use Facebook as a proxy, you can actually see that you max out on friends when you are in late teens to 20's and then its downhill from there. Stephen Wolfram (mathematica fame) did a deep dive into the numbers and there are quite a bit of interesting insight.. http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2013/04/data-science-of-the-facebook-world/ http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2013/04/data-science-of-the-f...
pg_is_a_butt 10y ago
step 1. don't read articles about making friends. #NERRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSS
tunesmith 10y ago
I'm more recently a believer that the best way to make friends as a guy is to be in an environment where you make loose connections but have long-term repeated interactions. In short, join a club. Work is mildly effective at this but because of other factors not as good as a club. Work-related meetup groups aren't as awesome for it either - it should be more like a side interest so it feels more like play. It doesn't even have to be a club that aligns with your true core passions, just something you enjoy enough and have a good chance of running into the same people semi-frequently. After a few months you've increased your odds of finding a new friend massively.
xyzzy4 10y ago
I think the most important thing is to have a long-lasting, monogamous relationship. At that point you can decide on expanding your social circle if you feel like it.
ChuckMcM 10y ago
There used to be a place in the Bay Area called "a clean well lighted place for books" which was a book store (of course) but it was also a pretty decent place to hang out. Of course talking and reading were fun (sort of a library without the librarian shhing you all the time) but I always wanted to create "A clean well lighted place to hack." which was more tech oriented. Of course you would need something to hack on and I figured a wall of various embedded systems connected together in various ways so that you would have write code on the outer ones to talk to the inner ones etc. What we got though were maker spaces, which when they work have a pretty cool vibe but sometimes it's like hanging out with a bunch of ghosts or something. All going about their business, not joining in or starting conversations etc. That was why I thought an ice breaker type activity like the wall of systems would be an interesting idea. Sort of like putting a puzzle out on the table at a dinner party. A safe reason to be hanging out. Some day I keep thinking I'll build something like that.
- shanusmagnus 10y ago
  "A safe reason to be hanging out." That really cuts to the heart of it -- I've always had a 'disability' where I am immensely social if I have an 'excuse' and just abysmal without one. Seeding the environment somehow would make all the difference for me; wonder to what degree it's generalizeable?
  - arsenide 10y ago
    For example, I like hiking. But it's not enough of an excuse for me to be social.
- eric-hu 10y ago
  > I always wanted to create "A clean well lighted place to hack." which was more tech oriented. Isn't this exactly a hacker space? Well...besides the clean part.
  - ChuckMcM 10y ago
    There are two ways in which the bookstore differed from the current implementation of hacker spaces; ad-hoc local usage (book browsing), and commercial activity (book buying). The hacker spaces I've been too have all shared a common "mode" which is "bring your stuff and we'll work in the same room." The allure being the social aspects and the interactions with other people interested in your space. But that has two problems, generally "moving" your space from where you work to the hacker space (for small embedded projects that is really hard), and for software projects they aren't necessarily "shared" any better in a social context other than IRC. Hence the idea of the 'hack wall' which would be some common infrastructure that everyone would be able to see and work with (from a distance on their computers) and a common understanding of the opportunity and constraints. My thesis is that this is what the jigsaw puzzle does as a party, anyone can share in working on it, skilled or unskilled. At a conference I attended there was a similar sort of idea with "craft sticks" (aka popsicle sticks) and hot glue guns, but I think the need to be "artsy" was intimidating some people. In my imagination the wall would be constructed somewhat like sections in a garden railroad might be, where each square would have some standard requirements, like power on the corners, 3.3v data busses, RS-423 connections, and maybe a serial port. And you could put squares together using something like 80/20 extrusions, then jumper across to the "standard" connectors, and each square would have a page in a local gitlab server which described its makeup. So to talk to an inner square you would have to create interfaces from the outer squares (which might all have a RasPi on them) to get to the inner squares.
elevenfist 10y ago
A better article on how friendships change over time and in adulthood by the atlantic. Key takeaways: (well, don't have time to write this out today, sorry) http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-friendships-change-over-time-in-adulthood/411466/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-friend...
aaron695 10y ago
This is is more 'The science of losing friends' with unscientific advice on gaining them. I would be interested in science of making them. Or even a more analytical approach other than kinda obvious stuff.
- xchip 10y ago
  Agreed, yet another article that promises to teach something, it's artificially long and the bottom line is stuff everybody knows...
massysett 10y ago
Yet another of these superficial articles that is equating quality and quantity. This obsession with "how many" because it is easily measured is the same thinking that leads people to pump up their Facebook friend count. OKCupid used to make the same mistake in their blog entries analyzing their message traffic. An ad that gets more responses must be better, right? Well, no. Getting one response from the right person is better than twenty responses that you are completely uninterested in.
eldavido 10y ago
What goes unchallenged is the article's assumption that people with more friends are happier (I think?) I have a much better social life now than I did when I was younger. Younger was lots of sort-of-friends, who I didn't really like, based on convenience/availability. I have far fewer friends now, but I've known many of them 10+ years and like them much more than my childhood friends.
- alashley 10y ago
  You likely know yourself a lot better now too, so the people you choose to build relationships with would reflect the qualities you value most. People with more friends can seem to be more happy externally (perpetually busy, always invited to events, always texting etc.) but if those friendships are all shallow, then it can be lonely and mentally-taxing. But regardless of the number of friends, the key factor is the quality and resulting strength of those friendships.
jrapdx3 10y ago
Having gotten "old" by some definitions, I've increasingly experienced the "friend problem". The article seemed to be addressing a "non-old" segment of the population, so I think it's appropriate to offer a few observations from a different perspective. It's not just me of course, even my very friendly wife notices dwindling friendships despite putting a lot of energy into keeping them going. We often ask each other "why is that?", but so far neither of us has a clue. The circle diminishes gradually, incrementally, the loss is one by one. Friends known for decades die, develop dementia, or move two thousand miles away to be near family. Friends are people and don't always change for the better. It's puzzling and painful when long-standing friends grow "weird" and unfriendly. It happens, no way to explain it, no known illness or infirmity removes them, just another kind of loss to grasp. Losses of such kinda are truly irreplaceable. Sure making new friends is wonderful and necessary but never quite the same. Thankfully a few stalwart friends are still around. Experts all agree having more friends is better, thing is, starting new friendships is a constant and steep challenge in later life. We find opportunity is sparse, contemporaries hesitant to take up the offer, or distracted by a plethora of family, health, and economic demands. The experts aren't saying how to solve these issues. If there is a key it must be the willingness to be persistent, not give up the effort to enrich the network of connectedness. Here and there people do respond, and a relationship slowly begins to form.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >* It's not just me of course, even my very friendly wife notices dwindling friendships despite putting a lot of energy into keeping them going. We often ask each other "why is that?", but so far neither of us has a clue. The circle diminishes gradually, incrementally, the loss is one by one. Friends known for decades die, develop dementia, or move two thousand miles away to be near family.* Well, turns out you do have a very pragmatic clue!
- mikegioia 10y ago
  If there is a key it must be the willingness to be persistent, not give up the effort to enrich the network of connectedness. Here and there people do respond, and a relationship slowly begins to form. I think that's 100% right. I've lived in NYC for almost 10 years and the sad reality is that people come/go frequently. I've found persistence to be the only consistent factor in building all the friendships over those years. Yes you need to click with someone, but we determine that within 5 minutes of talking to a new person. A lot of people make the effort to build a new friendship, but get too discouraged from a lack of reciprocation. 5 no's in a row can definitely signal "not interested" (ha) but a lot of people are interested they just need more of a push. It does come down to how badly you want to build that new friendship, but I think a lot of people are just not persistent enough at the beginning tbh.
kelvin0 10y ago
I've seen 'Friends' and 'Couples' sitting at restaurants staring at their phones, the whole time they are together. It's already difficult with age to make friends, if you add the 'mobile' factor you can dwindle the probability to zero ...
MonadQueen 10y ago
I make all my friends at Erlang meet ups and conferences.
abraca 10y ago
I have the opposite problem to most people, of having too many friends. And the number is ever-growing. Wherever I go - job, hobby, school - I pick up more friends. It's wonderful in that I am never lonely and I feel very loved. It is difficult though too because I sometimes feel overwhelmed and that I am not able to be a good friend myself. I have so many invitations, emails, texts etc that I can't keep up. I adore the majority of my friends - but it is quite difficult to extricate myself from a few friendships I have that are draining. I've been thinking recently about why I am this way...and I believe it is down to 1) listening carefully to what people have to say, 2) being happy and calm, it is just my nature, I am quiet but I am always looking for something to laugh about. I like to crack little jokes and I appreciate humor in every situation, 3) being un-judgmental and kind. Anyway i'm not sure what my point really is, except that you CAN make friends as you get older! It is not all doom and gloom :)
- Spakman 10y ago
  I'm glad you wrote this. I feel similarly myself, although it sounds like the making of friends comes more naturally to you. I have a surplus of friends that I know could become much closer friends if I was able to dedicate more time to those relationships, but the truth is that I already have a lot of excellent close friends. It's absolutely lovely but exhausting. I too feel overwhelmed by texts, invites and the like and am trying to figure out how to handle this without compromising myself too much (life is tough right now and I feel like I need an increasing amount of time on my own right now). Honesty about it is the approach I've been taking - I try to be the best friend I can to all of those closest to me, but bear in mind that I am also the most important friend I have. FWIW, I'm exactly with you on your points 1, 2 (replace calm with excitable sometimes though!) and 3.
  - Spakman 10y ago
    I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I'm one of the most open, positive and optimistic people I know and I just want everyone to enjoy life and being alive as much as I do. Perhaps people like that.
- andreygrehov 10y ago
technologia 10y ago
Sort of reminds me of that fake book from Numb3rs :P
kriro 10y ago
It's very beneficial in society to have lots of friends and know lots of people. Unfortunately the default mode of making friends is very extroverted and thus the usual advice is as well. Just chat up someone...that is not something that a decent chunk of the population is comfortable with. I haven't read the science but I'm a bit skeptical about the claims. As an introvert I'm often uncomfortable in mid-size+ social gatherings and need to recharge afterwards (with a good book for example). The article claims health benefits form having friends and seems to imply that making more friends is the way to go. I very much prefer deepening existing friendships. Being around very good friends is sometimes exhausting as well. I'd be very interested if the claimed health benefits have been tested on groups that were split into intorverted/extroverted. I often feel like these "self help by making more friends" articles are very biased towards the extroverted mode of living.
iammew 10y ago
They are all laughing over salad and a half eaten scotch egg. I'm glad I don't have friends like these.
- Spakman 10y ago
  Don't you wish that made you laugh?
  - iammew 10y ago
    Under medication, perhaps
TheCabin 10y ago
Where exactly do I find the science here?
stared 10y ago
I (right not 30yo) consciously balance time spent "old friends" and "new acquaintances". While most the "acquaintances" never move into good friend, even a tiny fraction is worth it. (Also, it is wonderful for networking; being confined to one's circle of friends makes it harder to reach out.)
quantum_nerd 10y ago
This article was deeply personal for me. I have moved around a lot during my 20-something years of life due to a lot of factors including, but not limited to: genocide, civil war, family house foreclosed, crossing the Atlantic, taking a new job in a city 1500 miles away from my "home" state. In all those times, I have made a lot of friends some whom I am still in touch with today and others, I have drifted apart from. As I get older, it is just get too tiring to recreate new friendships. I am quiet and picky and not the kind of personal who has tons of acquaintances. I have gained new insights from this article;be right back as I text an old friend to ask how he is doing...
kingmanaz 10y ago
Perhaps someone should create a "learnxinyminutes" for this.

411 points by frostmatthew 10y ago

amelius 10y ago

Just wondering: can beginning a startup with new people be considered a good way to find new friends?

nekomancer 10y ago
Wouldn't you usually know them already before cofounding a startup with them? It seems like a pretty big committment.
- newjersey 10y ago
  I agree that it sounds risky ti srarr a startup with people we dont know well enough to tell if our vision and interests align. That being said, I'd be willing to work on a not-for-profit side project or proof of concept.
jey 10y ago
I'd exercise caution about that, since eventually the startup will inevitably hit a rough patch and it'll be nice to have a social network other than the startup.
gumby 10y ago
They are more like family members, with all the positive and negative associations that entails.
- Terr_ 10y ago
  And then mixing business with family... can be a problem.
todd8 10y ago
I began a startup over 20 years ago. Today, my two best friends are from that startup. Many others from that startup ended up being people that I greatly enjoy seeing and still get together with. (I've added the following in an edit because I realize that my answer isn't very useful without additional information.) My best friends actually didn't start the company with me, they happened to be some of the very first key people hired by the company--I didn't know them before that. In our startup, there were ups and downs and definitely challenges to overcome; in that kind of environment one really gets to know people's character and I was lucky enough to make friends with two really great guys. Additionally, I got to know many remarkable people this way. Years after the company was sold and all of us had gone our own ways professionally, I was on a second date with the woman that I am now married to. We were headed to one of her friend's house for a party. While walking up to the front door I asked for the names of the people I would be meeting (to make it easier to remember their names). To my surprise and my wife's her friends were the wives of the CFO and the COO from the company before we sold it. Today we enjoy seeing them socially and even vacation with them from time to time. So it's not just my very best friends that came from the startup its actually many friends. Some people from the company I'd like to see more, but understandably, there are also people that I usually avoid.

navait 10y ago

I've certainly found myself in the difficult position of having moved to a place where I know nobody. I read "How to win friends and influence people", hoping I could learn how to make better friends with it. It's easy to go to meetups and make shallow connections with small talk, but getting people to talk to me is like pulling teeth, a lot of single sentence reponses and no attempt to further the conversation.

blablablame 10y ago
Do you do any sports? Tennis/golf clubs are great for meeting people. Gyms as well. You can't expect to have a new bff in 2 days, but you will meet people from all walks of life and maybe it will click with one or two. As for the talking part, I think people need to be good listeners, but at start, people need to be great storytellers. If you have a story or two about you/something, that is funny and you can intrigue people, you can be sure folks will stick around... 'Regarding the recent crime wave, when I was a teenager and I went camping with some friends and we noticed we ran out of toilet paper while one of us was on the can... not having a lot of options, we had to resort to crime... we went around trailers..... etc' Seems harmless enough, but its a story I tell a lot with a bit more details and pauses, takes about 5 minutes, makes people laugh (we were caught stealing the Toilet paper) and opens up folks. If you have a few funny real stories to tell, you will always find engagement from folks much nicer than 'ohh so what do you do? any kids? etc' that most people end up doing
lobotryas 10y ago
From the body language you describe it sounds like those people don't actually want to continue talking with you (for whatever reason). Carnegie is great. Follow up by reading a book or two about body language. While it's far from a hard science, it'll give you some more insight into what a person is thinking/feeling.
- WA 10y ago
  I think the Carnegie book isn’t that great, because it’s easy to misinterpret the rules. An often mentioned strategy is to be a good listener. This gets repeated ad nauseam, but is it actually true? I found that people become more open if you put a story on the table first. It’s like an investment. You open yourself a little bit and tell something about yourself, whereas a question about the other person asks them to trust you first.

hodwik 10y ago

> "People with higher I.Q.s were less content when they spent more time with friends. Psychologists theorize that these folks keep themselves intellectually stimulated without a lot of social interaction, and often have a long-term goal they are pursuing." Therein lies the rub. Having friends makes you happier, as long as your friends are intellectually stimulating. I've been trying desperately for years to make some intellectually stimulating friendships, and it's quite difficult. In part, I think, because I am a generalist, and most smart people are specialists. As a result, I don't run in the same circles as they do. When I do make a friend who is smart, chances are they will end up moving across country for a new job, or will disappear into their research, and I'm back at square one. Are there any other generalists who have trouble making friends with other smart people, because they all seem to be specialists? Do you have any advice for generalists in need of smart friends?

zafka 10y ago
To start with, Put contact info in your hacker news profile. Then when you say interesting things, folks who are a bit more shy can contact you directly. Also reach out to those who interest you. Who knows, some of these brilliant generalists might have time to chat.
- ljk 10y ago
  having contacts online isn't really the same thing as a "friend", right?
  - briantmaurer 10y ago
    Friendships don't materialize out of thin air, you have to start somewhere. If you would like to become friends with people on HN, posting contact info in your profile sounds like a good place to start.
  - Lockyy 10y ago
    There's no reason a single email can't turn into a solid long term friendship if things click. Some of my closest friends live across the country from me after meeting online.

artur_makly 10y ago

or u can just Rent A Friend : http://www.afar.com/magazine/the-incredibly-true-story-of-renting-a-friend-in-tokyo http://www.afar.com/magazine/the-incredibly-true-story-of-re... -- proven to work in japan. perhaps it could be repurposed for the US market. (although i dont think it would play out very well )

abledon 10y ago
I always thought it was fun when I was in a random group of people at a party and a couple of individuals were stoned... kinda rambling their ideas but really going far out there with the whats and ifs. It would be fun to have a service that paired you with an individual or group who wanted a 'guide' for their herb trips as they walked around the city / city parks / recreational outdoor areas. ------------------- Like, people could pick 'flavour' of guides. E.g.: [ x ] This Person A likes to talk and share his knowledge about bikes. [ x ] This PersonB likes to talk about Kant/Heigel and some other western philosophy. [ x ] This PersonC can do card tricks and has hilarious stories about his time overseas staying at 'X'. (ok now this is getting farfetched here, but hey people like doing stuff!) He also can wear a cape if you send a special request and bring a small jade plant. -------------------- MIght not need to even be monetized or anything, I think it would just be fun to connect with other random groups of people and put on a 'facade' of the 'guide', which in turn might create real friendships. (When we meet new people we usually are putting on a neutral facade of some sort and really only show our deeper layers once the intimate connections have had time to be laid down). Also , I think this meetup format is less akward because there is a preset goal in mind: E.g: THis person is going to be talking/showing/interacting around this theme/subject/activity. So this is similar to when people take courses in college (with preset goal of learning about course subject) and can form friendships more easily with people beside them/in discussion group (as the relationship has the prebuilt support already there to help it build around). This is kinda fun to rant on so maybe i will continue later but yes.... Rent A Friend style idea seems to have potential it could be sooo much more. could work on ideas of: Homogeneity of English Language. Would be fun to rent-a-friend but with goal of learning their native language. (E.G. hmm i am bored on a sunday afternoon, I know , I will practice my language with a rent-a-friend japanese speaker because I love the phonetics. (maybe the pairing will also speak japanese as 2nd language but that makes for another commonality base to talk around)

known 10y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

Xcelerate 10y ago

I know people keep trying (unsuccessfully) to make startups that help you "find friends", but it would be nice if one of these actually took off. I currently live in an area where I find it somewhat difficult to make new friends, and I'm not entirely sure why that's the case. Generally speaking, the people where I live are more interested in football/beer than technology/startups, but I actually don't think that is the reason for my difficulty — I am good friends with some football fanatics, and there are some technically-minded people who I can't stand. (And I certainly don't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with football and beer — I merely point out that these are not interests of mine!) Honestly, I can't quite figure out what causes me to mesh well with some people and not others. I get along great with my girlfriend and my sister, and I can talk to them for hours even though neither is interested in science or technology. And I don't think it's morals/values either — I'm friends with people whose political views are completely opposed to my own. If someone can figure out what actually causes people to "click" with one another, then I think a startup for making friends might actually be successful.

baron816 10y ago
I think/hope my start up, Krewe (https://www.gokrewe.com https://www.gokrewe.com), has found the right formula. I believe the key elements are access and comfort. Krewe places people into a group with five of their peers, making it comfortable to hang out at first. You don't have to single anyone out, it works kind of how things worked in your youth. And everyone lives within a half mile radius, so it's really convenient to meet up often. As you say, having lots of stuff in common isn't usually the defining factor in what makes people "click." I think most people can get along with pretty much anyone, so long as they spend enough time together. When you're in school, that's built in since you have to show up to class everyday. Krewe makes it possible to hang out with your group everyday since everyone's within walking distance and can get together for a quick beer or whatever.
- ChartsNGraffs 10y ago
  Cool idea. Just signed up!
- 10y ago

andreygrehov 10y ago

What is friendship? Seriously. I'm curious to know how different the definition is across various people.

Pluizer 10y ago
My personal definition: If I can call a person for no reason other then to tell them my cat just spilled my coffee and I'm annoyed I consider him/her a friend. Maybe a strange one but I also consider people friends if I consider their insults directed to me funny.

oolongCat 10y ago

>A study published in February in the British Journal of Psychology looked at 15,000 respondents and found that people who had more social interactions with close friends reported being happier—unless they were highly intelligent. People with higher I.Q.s were less content when they spent more time with friends. Psychologists theorize that these folks keep themselves intellectually stimulated without a lot of social interaction, and often have a long-term goal they are pursuing. Does anyone have a link to this so called study? Funny how in academia you are required to reference everything but when it comes to journalism anything goes. ---edit---- Please ignore my request, I had a temporary brain fart, a Google search helped me find it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26847844 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26847844

cubano 10y ago
This TED talk https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good_life_lessons_from_the_longest_study_on_happiness https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good... makes the same point and used data from an 75y study.
- oolongCat 10y ago
  This is incredible, thanks very much for sharing this. I really needed this.
koluft 10y ago
The "speculation" is the worst part of a science research. It gets the most air play but has but has the least basis in fact. Perhaps more intelligent people (by IQ test) are more introverted -- more thinking less feeling/EQ, and so are less comfortable with the company of other people they don't know well. That certainly fits the bookworm/ computer nerd / uberhobbyist type of high IQ person.

_ZeD_ 10y ago

obligatory http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bigbangtheory/images/f/ff/Freind1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121011222658 http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bigbangtheory/images/f/f...

jcoffland 10y ago

I find it difficult to find friends who are reliable. Many who seem to like me when we hang out are almost impossible to make plans with. They often respond by saying they need to check their schedule. Perhaps it's just a polite no. When we do get together everything is great but it seems so shallow. I have a lot of friends like this. Beyond the reliability issue I find it particularly hard to find highly intelligent friends. Most of my intellectual stimulation comes from my work but sometimes I find I want more. Many of the people I meet who are intelligent and in my field are socially inept. They can be intellectualy stimulating but deeper friendship is difficult.

therealdrag0 10y ago
Ditto. I've managed to meet one or two smart friends in each stage of my life. But they're kinda all over geographically so hard to be close with or see often.

SonicSoul 10y ago

someone once said something along: any relationship will thrive to a degree to which value is derived by both sides This helped me understand a few things. We all have childhood friends that once made sense but now if we met these people we wouldn't become friends. That's the exception to above rule, and i'm sure there are a few others, but generally that is a good way to understand why a friendship is working or ceases to be useful. It's something you can also use to acquire new friends or improve existing relationships. The value you offer may be as simple as being available (i.e. available to go out to meet possible romantic interests, available to pursue a new hobby together, available to blow off steam after work), actually listening and offering advice (advice part only works if the person looks up to you on a given subject and asks for it, unsolicited advice is the worst), being positive and seeking/seeing positivity in every situation/person (i've had friends that really helped me realize that people are in different stages of their life even when they seem obnoxious there's probably a good reason for it at the time so we shouldn't be quick to criticize and it's mostly a waste of time anyway). Most people don't actually think about this or put any effort into improving their value proposition but you'd be surprised how much difference that can make.

mistermann 10y ago
I would improve this to: any relationship will thrive to a degree to which perceived value is derived by both sides. I think a lot of people are stuck on a treadmill of success and would have a better life if they stopped to smell the roses, or talk to someone that maybe doesn't necessarily have an obvious way of adding value to their life.
- dualogy 10y ago
  Whenever I thought long enough about value, I concluded that all value is perceived value, including any manner or definition of "intrinsic value".

zappo2938 10y ago

I worked on a boat in the middle of the ocean for many years. I've been grounded for the last few years and tried to make friends. The experiment has been a massive waste of time and energy. I did so much for so many people trying to be nice and helpful and got so little in return. From an economic point of view, I'm completely self reliant and don't need anything from anyone else. I invested so much in other people and I got nothing back. There is one case where I watched some guy's dog for a weekend, took someone else's boat into the ocean to save him when his engine died, helped him move all this uncles' stuff after the uncle committed suicide, go drinking with him downtown even though I didn't want to go out, ect.. I moved into a new apartment and needed help putting up new blinds. He kept making excuses to not help me even though he is a contractor. From now on, I don't help other people. I work, make money, and if I need help, I'll pay a stranger. I'm fine with that. I've grown convinced it is a myth that we need friends.

BatFastard 10y ago
I have found that "giving" with the expectation of getting something in return is just wrong headed. Give because you want to give. Of course you have to be careful of the takers. Friend of mine for many years was moving, he called me and asked me to help. I said "Roy, you are worth 10 million bucks, go pay someone to help you!" and he did. There are endless supplies of good people in the world. But it takes effort, and sometimes you are rejected. Live with it and move on.
- zappo2938 10y ago
  When I was really young I lived in a small town and things were tight financially for most people. I guess helping each other when someone needed something was a not some virtuous thing but rather a form of currency. Hey, can you help wire the electric to the shack in the back yard. Sure, can your daughter watch my boys tonight. And, it continues like this. I disagree. I think there is a reasonable expectation that someone who is a contractor who consistently asks for large favors to help for a couple hour to put up blinds. I don't need friends.What we see in movies and the media is a myth, once again, an unobtainable expectation.

xchip 10y ago

What did you like about this article? The headline suggests it's going to explain something new and it just states the obvious. I see many articles fitting this pattern. Kind of the "5 ideas to lose weight" we saw a while back.

stegosaurus 10y ago

WRT the decline with age, I've always felt like a lot of it is 'ego based', for lack of better terms. I've found that as time goes on, people are far more concerned with doing things by the book, projecting an image, etc. rather than just 'being', enjoying life in the moment, doing things just because. I've certainly been guilty of this to some extent because it seems impossible to avoid. Personal anecdote: At age 16 it was fun to hang around at a bus stop or street corner or whatever and just chat bollocks. Move forward a bit and in college we'd hang out in someone's dorm room or flat or equivalent. Now everyone is off at work, spaced out all over the place. You might be able to get one or two people to do something, but it'll probably mean some sort of sanitized commercial experience (go and get pizza at a restaurant, pay to commute there, pay to commute back, etc). And it's all because we've sort of decided that working all the time is more important than being social. I think that's sad. I often wonder if it's how we end up with such warped political environments. No-one just relaxes, any more, it's all 40 hour weeks and 'scheduling appointments' months into the future. You grow up, and what were 20 kids, become a banker, a lawyer, a janitor, a policeman, a nurse, a dropout, a homeless guy, and so on. And it just doesn't work, because of all these rules we've made up, status games, location, whatever. Why can't we just go to the park again? And no, this isn't just about childhood friends moving away. It's the same story up and down the scale, in my experience. Everyone is busy, everyone is pushing. The community takes a back seat to economic needs, it seems. Something like that. I'm not sure. I know we still got stuff done back then, I have a bit of paper with a hologram on it that proves it. But it wasn't all consuming, somehow.

stegosaurus 10y ago
Christ, in some ways, this thread makes me want to just like, teleport some people from HN into the local park with some beers. I think we'd have a great time. No vi vs emacs, mind.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > eleport some people from HN into the local park with some beers. Park runs are fun (for various values of fun) and probably a good way to meet people.

nlh 10y ago

For all the negative things folks have been saying on here about SF (expensive, etc.) there's a huge positive that overshadows all of it for me: I've made more new friends in the last 3 years since I moved to SF than, I'd honestly say, my previous decade living in NYC. I'm 37 now and feel like I have more of a community than in college. I think the key to finding real friends and friendships is to be in a place where you're going to be surrounded by the kind of people you WANT to be friends with. It doesn't involve over-thinking or forcing it: I'm a 30-something dude who loves tech and being outside. There are a LOT of people like that in SF. I figured that out within a week of visiting 3 years ago, so I moved here. Say what you will about monoculture, but it sure made it easy and fun to find a community of people I liked (and vice versa).

colmvp 10y ago
Strange. I had the opposite experience. I made more friends in NYC in 2 years than real friends in SF in 4. That's not to blame people, because hey, it takes two to tango and my behavior sabotaged my own success. But even though I am in tech, I still never felt comfortable in the monoculture of SF than while in NY.
- nlh 10y ago
  Interesting data point - thanks for sharing. Tell me more: how did you meet and make friends in NYC? In SF - I find there's a more intimate social scene -- more dinner parties than bar nights, so easier to have meaningful interactions. Maybe I'm just seeing the product of my own growing up...
  - koluft 10y ago
    I haven't been invited to any dinner parties with strangers to become friends with. My existing friends invite me to dinner parties.
- radicality 10y ago
  Wondering too, how did you make friends in NYC? I'm finding it difficult.

deleted 10y ago

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wskinner 10y ago

One point missed by this article (but mentioned by another commenter) is that it's not enough to just want more friends. It's not even enough to meet another person who also wants friends. What keeps friends together is perceived mutual exchange of value - it sounds callous, but I challenge anyone to describe a friendship that lasted where either party believed they derived no value. Our lizard brains aggressively pre-filter potential friends by estimating expected value add. One property that contributes to perceived value is scarcity, and this leads to a sort of counterintuitive result: it may be easier to make friends if you don't really want or need them (or at least you appear that way). If you are self-reliant, happy, and occupied most of the time, your time and attention are scarce (from the perspective of others). This signals value and makes others want to be your friend. Obviously, this doesn't mean you should be constantly unavailable. But it does mean that being constantly available to hang out, talk, do favors, etc. will probably make you less desirable as a friend.

sloreti 10y ago
"The only way to have a friend is to be one" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
vt240 10y ago
I've always imagined relationships as a reciprocity index which sounds similar to what you are describing here.

SFJulie 10y ago

Made a bot that was used for dating. Nothing smart, just visiting pages of other persons randomly between 1/3 days and normally triggering alarms. Girls thought I was shy. I thought nothing, only that my model of human beings was right: people prefer 100 bouquet of one rose then 1 bouquet of 100 roses. Since then, I stopped using bots even though it was successful and I prefered to learn from the bots : just be considerate, and even if you don't think of it consciously, because you may come back to where you were, you might influence positively people's opinion. Even cats and animals comes to me on a regular basis now (probably uncorrelated, but who knows?) Being polite and considerate does not always mean being lowering your eyes when you see a bully :) Since then, I make friends slower, but with more quality. and since my "turn over" in friendship is low, I kind of do not mind having enough time to share quality time with them.

deleted 10y ago

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ajcarpy2005 10y ago

Most people also will expect there to always be some level of talking in social interactioms and feel awkward around pauses and silence. I believe this is because internally most people have not built up a constructive environment and use external activities and talking as a distraction rather than truly growth-inducing times. It feels awkward without the pauses though. If internally we need change - (WE do.) Change comes from within. - we need to make sure we aren't running on the same programming. Responding instantly and avooding pauses is not a new experience...

sdneirf 10y ago

If you use Facebook as a proxy, you can actually see that you max out on friends when you are in late teens to 20's and then its downhill from there. Stephen Wolfram (mathematica fame) did a deep dive into the numbers and there are quite a bit of interesting insight.. http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2013/04/data-science-of-the-facebook-world/ http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2013/04/data-science-of-the-f...

pg_is_a_butt 10y ago

step 1. don't read articles about making friends. #NERRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSS

tunesmith 10y ago

I'm more recently a believer that the best way to make friends as a guy is to be in an environment where you make loose connections but have long-term repeated interactions. In short, join a club. Work is mildly effective at this but because of other factors not as good as a club. Work-related meetup groups aren't as awesome for it either - it should be more like a side interest so it feels more like play. It doesn't even have to be a club that aligns with your true core passions, just something you enjoy enough and have a good chance of running into the same people semi-frequently. After a few months you've increased your odds of finding a new friend massively.

xyzzy4 10y ago

I think the most important thing is to have a long-lasting, monogamous relationship. At that point you can decide on expanding your social circle if you feel like it.

ChuckMcM 10y ago

There used to be a place in the Bay Area called "a clean well lighted place for books" which was a book store (of course) but it was also a pretty decent place to hang out. Of course talking and reading were fun (sort of a library without the librarian shhing you all the time) but I always wanted to create "A clean well lighted place to hack." which was more tech oriented. Of course you would need something to hack on and I figured a wall of various embedded systems connected together in various ways so that you would have write code on the outer ones to talk to the inner ones etc. What we got though were maker spaces, which when they work have a pretty cool vibe but sometimes it's like hanging out with a bunch of ghosts or something. All going about their business, not joining in or starting conversations etc. That was why I thought an ice breaker type activity like the wall of systems would be an interesting idea. Sort of like putting a puzzle out on the table at a dinner party. A safe reason to be hanging out. Some day I keep thinking I'll build something like that.

shanusmagnus 10y ago
"A safe reason to be hanging out." That really cuts to the heart of it -- I've always had a 'disability' where I am immensely social if I have an 'excuse' and just abysmal without one. Seeding the environment somehow would make all the difference for me; wonder to what degree it's generalizeable?
- arsenide 10y ago
  For example, I like hiking. But it's not enough of an excuse for me to be social.
eric-hu 10y ago
> I always wanted to create "A clean well lighted place to hack." which was more tech oriented. Isn't this exactly a hacker space? Well...besides the clean part.
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  There are two ways in which the bookstore differed from the current implementation of hacker spaces; ad-hoc local usage (book browsing), and commercial activity (book buying). The hacker spaces I've been too have all shared a common "mode" which is "bring your stuff and we'll work in the same room." The allure being the social aspects and the interactions with other people interested in your space. But that has two problems, generally "moving" your space from where you work to the hacker space (for small embedded projects that is really hard), and for software projects they aren't necessarily "shared" any better in a social context other than IRC. Hence the idea of the 'hack wall' which would be some common infrastructure that everyone would be able to see and work with (from a distance on their computers) and a common understanding of the opportunity and constraints. My thesis is that this is what the jigsaw puzzle does as a party, anyone can share in working on it, skilled or unskilled. At a conference I attended there was a similar sort of idea with "craft sticks" (aka popsicle sticks) and hot glue guns, but I think the need to be "artsy" was intimidating some people. In my imagination the wall would be constructed somewhat like sections in a garden railroad might be, where each square would have some standard requirements, like power on the corners, 3.3v data busses, RS-423 connections, and maybe a serial port. And you could put squares together using something like 80/20 extrusions, then jumper across to the "standard" connectors, and each square would have a page in a local gitlab server which described its makeup. So to talk to an inner square you would have to create interfaces from the outer squares (which might all have a RasPi on them) to get to the inner squares.

elevenfist 10y ago

A better article on how friendships change over time and in adulthood by the atlantic. Key takeaways: (well, don't have time to write this out today, sorry) http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-friendships-change-over-time-in-adulthood/411466/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-friend...

aaron695 10y ago

This is is more 'The science of losing friends' with unscientific advice on gaining them. I would be interested in science of making them. Or even a more analytical approach other than kinda obvious stuff.

xchip 10y ago
Agreed, yet another article that promises to teach something, it's artificially long and the bottom line is stuff everybody knows...

massysett 10y ago

Yet another of these superficial articles that is equating quality and quantity. This obsession with "how many" because it is easily measured is the same thinking that leads people to pump up their Facebook friend count. OKCupid used to make the same mistake in their blog entries analyzing their message traffic. An ad that gets more responses must be better, right? Well, no. Getting one response from the right person is better than twenty responses that you are completely uninterested in.

eldavido 10y ago

What goes unchallenged is the article's assumption that people with more friends are happier (I think?) I have a much better social life now than I did when I was younger. Younger was lots of sort-of-friends, who I didn't really like, based on convenience/availability. I have far fewer friends now, but I've known many of them 10+ years and like them much more than my childhood friends.

alashley 10y ago
You likely know yourself a lot better now too, so the people you choose to build relationships with would reflect the qualities you value most. People with more friends can seem to be more happy externally (perpetually busy, always invited to events, always texting etc.) but if those friendships are all shallow, then it can be lonely and mentally-taxing. But regardless of the number of friends, the key factor is the quality and resulting strength of those friendships.

jrapdx3 10y ago

Having gotten "old" by some definitions, I've increasingly experienced the "friend problem". The article seemed to be addressing a "non-old" segment of the population, so I think it's appropriate to offer a few observations from a different perspective. It's not just me of course, even my very friendly wife notices dwindling friendships despite putting a lot of energy into keeping them going. We often ask each other "why is that?", but so far neither of us has a clue. The circle diminishes gradually, incrementally, the loss is one by one. Friends known for decades die, develop dementia, or move two thousand miles away to be near family. Friends are people and don't always change for the better. It's puzzling and painful when long-standing friends grow "weird" and unfriendly. It happens, no way to explain it, no known illness or infirmity removes them, just another kind of loss to grasp. Losses of such kinda are truly irreplaceable. Sure making new friends is wonderful and necessary but never quite the same. Thankfully a few stalwart friends are still around. Experts all agree having more friends is better, thing is, starting new friendships is a constant and steep challenge in later life. We find opportunity is sparse, contemporaries hesitant to take up the offer, or distracted by a plethora of family, health, and economic demands. The experts aren't saying how to solve these issues. If there is a key it must be the willingness to be persistent, not give up the effort to enrich the network of connectedness. Here and there people do respond, and a relationship slowly begins to form.

coldtea 10y ago
>* It's not just me of course, even my very friendly wife notices dwindling friendships despite putting a lot of energy into keeping them going. We often ask each other "why is that?", but so far neither of us has a clue. The circle diminishes gradually, incrementally, the loss is one by one. Friends known for decades die, develop dementia, or move two thousand miles away to be near family.* Well, turns out you do have a very pragmatic clue!
mikegioia 10y ago
If there is a key it must be the willingness to be persistent, not give up the effort to enrich the network of connectedness. Here and there people do respond, and a relationship slowly begins to form. I think that's 100% right. I've lived in NYC for almost 10 years and the sad reality is that people come/go frequently. I've found persistence to be the only consistent factor in building all the friendships over those years. Yes you need to click with someone, but we determine that within 5 minutes of talking to a new person. A lot of people make the effort to build a new friendship, but get too discouraged from a lack of reciprocation. 5 no's in a row can definitely signal "not interested" (ha) but a lot of people are interested they just need more of a push. It does come down to how badly you want to build that new friendship, but I think a lot of people are just not persistent enough at the beginning tbh.

kelvin0 10y ago

I've seen 'Friends' and 'Couples' sitting at restaurants staring at their phones, the whole time they are together. It's already difficult with age to make friends, if you add the 'mobile' factor you can dwindle the probability to zero ...

MonadQueen 10y ago

I make all my friends at Erlang meet ups and conferences.

abraca 10y ago

I have the opposite problem to most people, of having too many friends. And the number is ever-growing. Wherever I go - job, hobby, school - I pick up more friends. It's wonderful in that I am never lonely and I feel very loved. It is difficult though too because I sometimes feel overwhelmed and that I am not able to be a good friend myself. I have so many invitations, emails, texts etc that I can't keep up. I adore the majority of my friends - but it is quite difficult to extricate myself from a few friendships I have that are draining. I've been thinking recently about why I am this way...and I believe it is down to 1) listening carefully to what people have to say, 2) being happy and calm, it is just my nature, I am quiet but I am always looking for something to laugh about. I like to crack little jokes and I appreciate humor in every situation, 3) being un-judgmental and kind. Anyway i'm not sure what my point really is, except that you CAN make friends as you get older! It is not all doom and gloom :)

Spakman 10y ago
I'm glad you wrote this. I feel similarly myself, although it sounds like the making of friends comes more naturally to you. I have a surplus of friends that I know could become much closer friends if I was able to dedicate more time to those relationships, but the truth is that I already have a lot of excellent close friends. It's absolutely lovely but exhausting. I too feel overwhelmed by texts, invites and the like and am trying to figure out how to handle this without compromising myself too much (life is tough right now and I feel like I need an increasing amount of time on my own right now). Honesty about it is the approach I've been taking - I try to be the best friend I can to all of those closest to me, but bear in mind that I am also the most important friend I have. FWIW, I'm exactly with you on your points 1, 2 (replace calm with excitable sometimes though!) and 3.
- Spakman 10y ago
  I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I'm one of the most open, positive and optimistic people I know and I just want everyone to enjoy life and being alive as much as I do. Perhaps people like that.
andreygrehov 10y ago

technologia 10y ago

Sort of reminds me of that fake book from Numb3rs :P

kriro 10y ago

It's very beneficial in society to have lots of friends and know lots of people. Unfortunately the default mode of making friends is very extroverted and thus the usual advice is as well. Just chat up someone...that is not something that a decent chunk of the population is comfortable with. I haven't read the science but I'm a bit skeptical about the claims. As an introvert I'm often uncomfortable in mid-size+ social gatherings and need to recharge afterwards (with a good book for example). The article claims health benefits form having friends and seems to imply that making more friends is the way to go. I very much prefer deepening existing friendships. Being around very good friends is sometimes exhausting as well. I'd be very interested if the claimed health benefits have been tested on groups that were split into intorverted/extroverted. I often feel like these "self help by making more friends" articles are very biased towards the extroverted mode of living.

iammew 10y ago

They are all laughing over salad and a half eaten scotch egg. I'm glad I don't have friends like these.

Spakman 10y ago
Don't you wish that made you laugh?
- iammew 10y ago
  Under medication, perhaps

TheCabin 10y ago

Where exactly do I find the science here?

stared 10y ago

I (right not 30yo) consciously balance time spent "old friends" and "new acquaintances". While most the "acquaintances" never move into good friend, even a tiny fraction is worth it. (Also, it is wonderful for networking; being confined to one's circle of friends makes it harder to reach out.)

quantum_nerd 10y ago

This article was deeply personal for me. I have moved around a lot during my 20-something years of life due to a lot of factors including, but not limited to: genocide, civil war, family house foreclosed, crossing the Atlantic, taking a new job in a city 1500 miles away from my "home" state. In all those times, I have made a lot of friends some whom I am still in touch with today and others, I have drifted apart from. As I get older, it is just get too tiring to recreate new friendships. I am quiet and picky and not the kind of personal who has tons of acquaintances. I have gained new insights from this article;be right back as I text an old friend to ask how he is doing...

kingmanaz 10y ago

Perhaps someone should create a "learnxinyminutes" for this.