24 ms·

Airbus thinks it has found a way to alleviate jet lag

147 points by edward 11y ago

tgb 11y ago
Doesn't the new Boeing have this feature as well? I remember hearing about it when I toured the factory. (Which if an excellent tour you should check out if you're in Seattle area.)
- ajpgrealish 11y ago
  Yes, the Dreamliners have this. It's certainly a comfortable plane but I'm not sure how much difference the lights make on jet lag.
  - jamesblonde 11y ago
    I flew on one from Oakland to Stockholm (return) last week. It worked great. The windows are kind amazing - they tint themselves according to conditions. The big disadvantage on the way over northern Greenland was that I couldn't see properly out the window, when there were beautiful clear skies. I always love seeing the vast open expanses and glacial valleys on Greenland.
    - johansch 11y ago
      I was so disappointed by those electronically dimmable windows in the 787. When it's automatically controlled by the central system/crew it's fine, but when you want to manipulate them yourself the ~30 second delay from button press to actual change is quite annoying, and you wish for the old style mechanical sliders instead.
daveguy 11y ago
And even if they haven't the placebo effect is a real effect, so it'll be great marketing either way.
monk_e_boy 11y ago
We always found getting blind drunk worked best. Get plastered then go to sleep at about midnight, wake up at 10am local time with a stinking hangover but body clock in sync.
- drglitch 11y ago
  2-3 non-sugary drinks plus a melatonin (which i never take regularly) work wonders. Bring good earplugs - the soft, squishy kind. And of course, try to get that business upgrade - i found the latter to work the most :)
  - raverbashing 11y ago
    Melatonin (to me) are a bad sleep aid. It definitely helps you sleep, but it's a weird sleep
    - jrowley 11y ago
      I agree on the melatonin front. I prefer a couple of whiskeys and a benadryl for long flights.
      - twoodfin 11y ago
        I used to be in this camp, too, but beware of DVT if you knock yourself out cold in a cramped position for hours.
    - weaksauce 11y ago
      You don't need much and a lot of the OTC pills are way too much and cause that odd sleep. Iirc Some pills are 50mg of the stuff and you only need ~1mg to get useful effects. Any more and you risk bad dreams and other weird effects.
      - niccaluim 11y ago
        Yes, I've been to a sleep specialist and they told me the same thing. Anything over 1mg is far too much. And you really have to look to find the 1mg bottles.
kijin 11y ago
This might work on short flights, but short flights generally don't give us serious jet lag. On long flights (e.g. London to San Francisco), I don't think any amount of fancy lighting will be able to compensate for the fact that your day has suddenly become 32 hours long and you've been awake for 24 of them. Do you suddenly feel refreshed if you see another sunrise (whether real or simulated) after having been awake for 24 hours straight? Not me... at least not since my early 20s.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Jet lag isn't about feeling tired after being awake for 24 hours straight, and defeating it wouldn't mean that you arrive at your destination wide awake despite having had no sleep for a full day. Jet lag is the persistent desync between your body's internal clock and the sun's actual position, which lasts for several days after a rapid trip across many time zones. It's not about getting to your destination feeling refreshed, but waking up the next morning without feeling like it's time for bed.
minikites 11y ago
We already know how to beat jet lag, fasting, then eating at the new time you want breakfast to be: http://harpers.org/blog/2012/03/the-empty-stomach-fasting-to-beat-jet-lag/ http://harpers.org/blog/2012/03/the-empty-stomach-fasting-to...
ryanmarsh 11y ago
> Airbus, as of last month, reports having received 777 orders for the aircraft Wait is that a typo or a dig at Boeing?
- dorfsmay 11y ago
  777 is also a number. I understood it sa they received 776 + 1 orders, although yes ironic.
- cmsmith 11y ago
  Perhaps they had sold >777 by the end of the month, but they happened to send out their press release after their 777th sale.
- gingerlime 11y ago
  Maybe it's a SEO hack.
- Xixi 11y ago
  Wikipedia has 777 on order, so I guess it's not a typo. Two others sources give 764 [1] and 780 [2] orders, respectively. Given that Air France recently converted outstanding orders for the A380 to three A350, that would make 777 as of last month consistent with 780 as of today. This 780 figure is also including two orders for a total of 16 A350-800, which will never be built. So it is consistent with the 764 figure that do not include these A350-800. Conclusion: not a typo. [1] https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/orders https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/orders [2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tSkBafqSz-xEdM1VLbQyQN1KF4CKf7nGE-Du645YsPo/pub?gid=7# https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tSkBafqSz-xEdM1VLbQy... Edit: added the AF recent order, and the A350-800 adjustment.
matwood 11y ago
The fix for jet lag is to fly in business class or better. EDIT Not sure why the down votes. Being able to properly sleep while on a plane is absolutely the best way to beat jet leg.
- johansch 11y ago
  Yeah. The problem with travel hacking (it's not really economically feasible to fly business between Europe and US for most of us) is that you get so used to it that every single transatlantic work trip becomes a big complicated optimization game. Flying economy simple stops being an option. This time the other day I lucked out via what seemed to be a Star Alliance-wide mistake fare between Scandinavia and Seattle and a few more US cities ($700 for r/t business class!). That plus a cheap connecting flight to the Bay area fixed it for this time.
  - zemvpferreira 11y ago
    How do you find these fares and connections? Seems like a non-trivial amount of work to look at every possible route combination between two cities. I do Lisbon-SF twice a month and would gladly upgrade to business at 2x cost of economy.
    - nommm-nommm 11y ago
      http://www.secretflying.com/ http://www.secretflying.com/
    - johansch 11y ago
      Flyertalk, businessclass.{se,no,dk,co.uk}, insideflyer.de, onemileatatime.boardingarea.com etc etc. Plus personal crawler projects and contacts with similar-minded people. Warning: if you don't find this fun it's probably not worth the time. Expect to spend a lot of time chasing these deals. It does seem to get harder over time, judging from my ~5 years in the game. Just a few years ago there were gaping holes in the system, allowing anyone to buy 100k miles from US Airways for $1200 and then spend them on quite on e.g. a 90k mile (or was it 110k?) First class roundtrips Europe/NA-Asia with e.g. ANA, Asiana iirc.
freshfey 11y ago
I'm currently using a combination of Jetlag Rooster (http://www.jetlagrooster.com/ http://www.jetlagrooster.com/), fasting, drinking lots of water and eating the first meal after arrival with their time (if you arrive at 9am, you'd eat breakfast there) - this has worked very good for both me and multiple people I've recommended it to. I usually fast between 12-24 hours, depending on the traveling time, drink lots and it has worked for going both to the East and coming back from it. I wrote about it in more detail here: http://bitehype.com/how-to-successfully-avoid-and-hack-a-jet-lag/ http://bitehype.com/how-to-successfully-avoid-and-hack-a-jet...
- dorfsmay 11y ago
  I.be seen studies, and found it works well for me, that the ideal is to only eat once a day, at diner time of your destination. I don't always manage to do it during travel but do it for 2 or 3 days once I've arrived.
- chockablock 11y ago
  Interesting. There is clear animal data showing that food timing is a strong input to ththe circadian clock, I hadn't seen it applied to people before.
drglitch 11y ago
Boeings 787s and "new cabin" 778 retrofits have this feature. It was touted by AA and United a while back. When i actually flew in one, flight attendants made zero use of it and just went from 100% bright to to regular "lights off, good night" as soon as meal service was done.
- cylinder 11y ago
  Yeah United the same on my 787 journeys. Truly the worst staff in the world consistently. However, 787 does have pressurization and humidity features as well and these made a huge reduction in my jet lag over the 777 and A380
  - rosser 11y ago
    Seriously, the cabin climate changes on Dreamliners make 10-hour flights feel more like 6-hour flights to me, in terms of how useless I am at remembering my name and why I'm visiting upon reaching the immigration counter in the destination country.
  - rgo 11y ago
    I thought A380 and 787 had equivalent cabin pressure of 6000 ft with similar humidity features. That said, I unfortunately did not notice any reduction in tiredness or jet lag in either plane compared to older aircraft. But I did enjoy the lower noise levels and higher stability of the A380, which make for a more pleasant journey overall. I feel less worn off when I land, which means I'll take less to recover from the flight itself, which I find more damaging then the time zone differences.
    - cylinder 11y ago
      agree. The a380 is tremendous, especially when combined with Qantas service.
  - dzhiurgis 11y ago
    I second the pressurisation and humidity features. Also, they use electric compressors instead of bleed air, which helps to reduce engine fumes in cabin. These things made my trip significantly better.
tim333 11y ago
Hmm - having mucked about with a variety of lighting it's only seems mildly effective for reducing jet lag. The article says they are fitting fancy coloured leds that they hope will help, not as far as I can see that they've actually tried it and found it effective. I find melatonin and ambien reduce the jet lag effects about 50% but that's a fair bit more hard core than some LEDs.
leoedin 11y ago
If this works, then why does jet lag often persist for days after arriving at your destination? The light is obviously in sync with local time there, but it still takes a few days for your body to adjust.
- johnm1019 11y ago
  TLDR; It doesn't fix jetlag but it might get you started on the right path one "day" cycle sooner. There isn't "one simple trick" and not have jet lag. Everyone will have jetlag after going through a large time change. Your body can only accomodate so quickly depending on the magnitude of the change. IME people recover 0.5-2 hours of time change a day. So if you go through a change, it will take anywhere from 3-12 days to fully recover. You don't even realize it until you've been somewhere for a while and one day you wake up and realize you are fully rested for the first time in a week (even though the other days felt basically fine).
11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
After 1.5 million lifetime miles, much of it intercontinental, it boils down to 2 rules for me: - Flying East to Europe: Get out in the sun after landing and don't fall asleep until at least 8:00 PM local time. - Flying West to Asia: Stay on US time. Go to sleep at 6:00 PM local time, get up at 2:00 AM. Obviously, avoid evening appointments. If that isn't possible, at least schedule them after you've been in country a couple of days.
- hyperpape 11y ago
  I'm curious: what's the idea behind waking up at 2:00 AM? Are you the sort of person who can't easily sleep more than 8 hours?
  - tim333 11y ago
    Not the above poster but I find you just tend to wake up about 2am because your body thinks it's 10am and time to get up.
  - pcl 11y ago
    It's only mildly awkward to go to bed at 6pm, and then when you fly back east, you don't have much jetlag in that direction either. 2am in China is 11am in SF. (I'm assuming the OP is flying from the US, based on the destination choices.) EDIT: removed bad NYC math.
    - 0x0 11y ago
      Did you get SF and NYC mixed up? Isn't 8am SF == 11am NYC?
      - dmoy 11y ago
        Yes, also the offsets are wrong. China (East coast time right now is 9 hr diff from West coast usa. After daylight ends it's another hr diff. It is never a 6 hr diff.
        11y ago
gingerlime 11y ago
Perhaps I'm saying this because I only experienced jet lag on holidays but I love it. I flew several times from Europe to Asia. I couldn't get much sleep on the plane and was very tired so managed to sleep easily and the next days were a bit hazy but fun. On the way back it's the best part. I always end up going to bed early and waking up early. I love it. I normally can't sleep that easily or wake up so fresh early in the morning. I feel very productive working in the early hours of the morning (only on jet lag). Maybe I'm odd, but I wish I could stretch my jet lag even further, rather than get rid of it.
- cylinder 11y ago
  Hah, I felt the same returning to US from Europe. For a week I was waking up at 5am and going to watch the sunrise for the first time ever. It was amazing, I wish I could always do that. I recently flew the Dreamliner to Australia and experienced no jet lag. Noticeable difference.
  - adriand 11y ago
    I like flying from Canada to Europe because when I arrive, I'm primed to be able to party until 4:00 or 5:00 am, like the locals. Whereas back home, I'm so used to going to bed at 11 and getting up at 6, it takes a lot of effort to stay up late. This kind of jet lag helps me relive my twenties, and since I'm never there on business, always just pleasure, it works out very well.
- 1_player 11y ago
  > I only experienced jet lag on holidays but I love it I feel the same on slight sleep deprivation: if you usually get a good night's sleep and one day wake up after 3/4 hours, after the groggy phase you'd feel in a positive, relaxed mood, probably not top notch mentally but it's very similar to having drunk a small amount of alcohol. I really enjoy it. It doesn't work if you are already sleep deprived.
  - shin_lao 11y ago
    Actually sleep deprivation has been proven to be equivalent to being intoxicated. I can't find the resource unfortunately.
robbles 11y ago
This "16.7M colours" stat that reporters wave around always gets me. It's just 24-bit color, doesn't mean it's "high tech". I can make you 16.7M colours with a $3 microcontroller and LEDs from the hardware store. What they should discuss instead is the color gamut of the LEDs and how much of the visible light spectrum they can accurately reproduce.
- rosser 11y ago
  They aren't writing the article for technologists and color-gamut-philes. If anything, they're writing it for people who fly long-haul and consequently suffer from jet lag when they have actual business to conduct. Talking about the number of colors the LEDs can produce is far more likely to convey to that audience how this is supposed to work than delving into the kind of details you'd probably have to read the spec sheet on the individual diodes to find.
mazumdar 11y ago
one of the things that make you feel tired after long flights is noise pollution. we don't realize it because it's something we expect during flights but our mind and body is essentially sitting through hours of loud humming that takes a toll on us. The solution for me is good noise canceling headphones. If you fly often, invest in a good pair and it will do wonders for you. It has for me.
- chockablock 11y ago
  Agreed on noise fatigue. Good -30dB earplugs (worn under headphones if nec), even while sleeping, make me land much better rested (and are ~$0). Doesn't help with jetlag itself (I.e. the mismatch btw astronomic and biological time), but still a big deal.
InTheArena 11y ago
This is airbus's attempt to come up with hype to fight the real advantages of the 787, 350 and CRFP - most notably greater pressure and higher humidity. I'm in a much better state coming off a 787 in economy plus then a 380 in business (assuming that I don't sleep on both). Boeing introduced the lights on their sky interior a few years ago, and it didn't really make a difference.
- samsonradu 11y ago
  Interesting, didnt know why I felt like shit on a 380 after a 12h flight. Had a terrible headache and a sore throat. Is sitting at the first floor even worse? It was also very cold but not sure if related. Boeing felt a bit different (better) over the same distance but I thought it was just me
  - monort 11y ago
    Do you drink a lot of caffeine at home? I was always getting headaches on a long flights before realizing that it was a caffeine withdrawal.
    - samsonradu 11y ago
      I do but my headaches then was due to the cabin pressure + air conditioning I believe. I was drinking coffee on the plane too so..
intrasight 11y ago
My first work flight to Europe (about 30 years ago) I was upgraded to first class upon getting on the plane. First class at that time was in the nose of the 747. Business class was on the 2nd level. I walked into the nose and found that I was the only one there. Because the nose is basically a triangle, one of the results is that one seat is isolated all by itself. I choose that seat and thought "cool, I'll be like Captain Kirk on the bridge". Being young (~21) and inexperienced, jet lag was not on my mind - I was looking forward to my time as Captain Kirk. A few other passengers can onto the "bridge" and the a stewardess came in and asked me if I'd like a drink. I had about two drinks before passing out. I slept all the way to Europe and was somewhat miffed at myself. But upon arrival I found that I did not experience any jet lag. Over a year I did the same trip a couple more times, was not so fortunate to be placed on the bridge, get free drinks, and be comfortable. On those trips I did experience jet lag.
- heleph 11y ago
  I do UK to Australia every other year. I started in my early twenties and am now mid thirties. I've found jetlag has gotten worse as I've got older. I hardly felt it when I was 21! I'd say it takes about three days to be sleeping ok again now. My parents always take at least a week to recover. Except this time. I had a six month old baby and jetlag felt completely the same as just being at home. :)
  - intrasight 11y ago
    Jetlag definitely does get worse with age. Totally concur on the comparison to a six month old. My daughter taught me patience and perseverance - from birth until present. I know some day she will return the favor.
  - julian_t 11y ago
    Definitely agree on the age thing... I've just turned 60 and it takes me days to get fully recovered from flying LN-NY, much longer than it used to. Melatonin and adjusting sleep times helps a bit, but not as much as I'd wish. Not being able to sleep on planes doesn't help either. On the overnight flight back to LN, I'm the one with the reading light on all night...
Aperson4321 11y ago
With Virtual Reality in mind I feel that I should mention that people have noticed that VR can mess with peoples day and night cycle perception. When I listen to audio books I often use my D2 Oculus rift VR headseat and explore like a tourist cool looking custom minecraft maps with the MineCrift mod, I have experiences some confusion after being in a day time VR world and taking off the VR headseat and seeing that it is night time in real life, and the opposite with night time VR scenes at day time IRL. The ability of high quality VR to mess with the visual senses of people is really powerfull and not restricted to entertainment.
deleted 11y ago
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happytrails 11y ago
This reads like an advertisement.
uiorew 11y ago
Since this came up in a course recently, apparently jet lag is (at least partially) caused by: 1. Your circadian rhythm [1] being out of sync. In a nutshell, a reasonable amount of internal biology is synchronized to the time of day to improve efficiency. If your activity isn't in sync with what your 'internal clock' is expecting, you experience jet lag. 2. A limited ability for the clock to adjust to a new timezone. The direction of adjustment is encoded by a phase response curve [2] and is affected by exposure to light -- practically nothing else can shift it. 11thEarlOfMar has the right idea -- if you can avoid light exposure entirely, your clock won't shift and you won't be jetlagged. Otherwise, large doses of light at the right times of day are (apparently) the best cure. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Humans [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_response_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_response_curve
- chockablock 11y ago
  Timing of eating is also an input to circadian rhythm (at least in rats)--I'll try to find the cite.
  - uiorew 11y ago
    Here's [1] what appears to be a good one (or, at least, it has some citations to other papers which might be better) -- the first section after the abstract is an intro to circadian rhythms, including references to food zeitgebers in rats, rabbits and adorable hamsters. IIRC there doesn't appear to be a strong effect in humans, but I'm slacking off as is and won't be digging up a reference for that XD [1]: http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/274/6/R1751.short http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/274/6/R1751.short
jsprogrammer 11y ago
>Throw in an air management system that renews the air every two minutes while helping regulate cabin temperature, and sitting onboard an A350 may be less harsh on your body than hanging out at home. Even taking into account the extra radiation exposure?
matznerd 11y ago
To combat jet lag, try drinking a ton of water. I'm talking liters of water, I usually will consume a minimum of 3 liters of water while flying, in addition to water I drink before and after the flight. I also take at least 200mg of CoQ10/Ubiquinol each hour of the flight, in addition to extra before and after the flight. It seems to help a lot.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  I hope you're on an aisle seat!
keithgabryelski 11y ago
seems like this would work out well except for every flight i've been on there has been at least one person unwilling to close their damn window shade.
washadjeffmad 11y ago
I take a small (0.2-0.4mg) dose of melatonin about 5 hours before the time I want to 'get sleepy' when travelling or returning. After a day or two of doing this, as well as getting plenty of daytime sunshine, I'm usually adjusted well enough not to notice any jet lag.

147 points by edward 11y ago

tgb 11y ago

Doesn't the new Boeing have this feature as well? I remember hearing about it when I toured the factory. (Which if an excellent tour you should check out if you're in Seattle area.)

ajpgrealish 11y ago
Yes, the Dreamliners have this. It's certainly a comfortable plane but I'm not sure how much difference the lights make on jet lag.
- jamesblonde 11y ago
  I flew on one from Oakland to Stockholm (return) last week. It worked great. The windows are kind amazing - they tint themselves according to conditions. The big disadvantage on the way over northern Greenland was that I couldn't see properly out the window, when there were beautiful clear skies. I always love seeing the vast open expanses and glacial valleys on Greenland.
  - johansch 11y ago
    I was so disappointed by those electronically dimmable windows in the 787. When it's automatically controlled by the central system/crew it's fine, but when you want to manipulate them yourself the ~30 second delay from button press to actual change is quite annoying, and you wish for the old style mechanical sliders instead.

daveguy 11y ago

And even if they haven't the placebo effect is a real effect, so it'll be great marketing either way.

monk_e_boy 11y ago

We always found getting blind drunk worked best. Get plastered then go to sleep at about midnight, wake up at 10am local time with a stinking hangover but body clock in sync.

drglitch 11y ago
2-3 non-sugary drinks plus a melatonin (which i never take regularly) work wonders. Bring good earplugs - the soft, squishy kind. And of course, try to get that business upgrade - i found the latter to work the most :)
- raverbashing 11y ago
  Melatonin (to me) are a bad sleep aid. It definitely helps you sleep, but it's a weird sleep
  - jrowley 11y ago
    I agree on the melatonin front. I prefer a couple of whiskeys and a benadryl for long flights.
    - twoodfin 11y ago
      I used to be in this camp, too, but beware of DVT if you knock yourself out cold in a cramped position for hours.
  - weaksauce 11y ago
    You don't need much and a lot of the OTC pills are way too much and cause that odd sleep. Iirc Some pills are 50mg of the stuff and you only need ~1mg to get useful effects. Any more and you risk bad dreams and other weird effects.
    - niccaluim 11y ago
      Yes, I've been to a sleep specialist and they told me the same thing. Anything over 1mg is far too much. And you really have to look to find the 1mg bottles.

kijin 11y ago

This might work on short flights, but short flights generally don't give us serious jet lag. On long flights (e.g. London to San Francisco), I don't think any amount of fancy lighting will be able to compensate for the fact that your day has suddenly become 32 hours long and you've been awake for 24 of them. Do you suddenly feel refreshed if you see another sunrise (whether real or simulated) after having been awake for 24 hours straight? Not me... at least not since my early 20s.

mikeash 11y ago
Jet lag isn't about feeling tired after being awake for 24 hours straight, and defeating it wouldn't mean that you arrive at your destination wide awake despite having had no sleep for a full day. Jet lag is the persistent desync between your body's internal clock and the sun's actual position, which lasts for several days after a rapid trip across many time zones. It's not about getting to your destination feeling refreshed, but waking up the next morning without feeling like it's time for bed.

minikites 11y ago

We already know how to beat jet lag, fasting, then eating at the new time you want breakfast to be: http://harpers.org/blog/2012/03/the-empty-stomach-fasting-to-beat-jet-lag/ http://harpers.org/blog/2012/03/the-empty-stomach-fasting-to...

ryanmarsh 11y ago

> Airbus, as of last month, reports having received 777 orders for the aircraft Wait is that a typo or a dig at Boeing?

dorfsmay 11y ago
777 is also a number. I understood it sa they received 776 + 1 orders, although yes ironic.
cmsmith 11y ago
Perhaps they had sold >777 by the end of the month, but they happened to send out their press release after their 777th sale.
gingerlime 11y ago
Maybe it's a SEO hack.
Xixi 11y ago
Wikipedia has 777 on order, so I guess it's not a typo. Two others sources give 764 [1] and 780 [2] orders, respectively. Given that Air France recently converted outstanding orders for the A380 to three A350, that would make 777 as of last month consistent with 780 as of today. This 780 figure is also including two orders for a total of 16 A350-800, which will never be built. So it is consistent with the 764 figure that do not include these A350-800. Conclusion: not a typo. [1] https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/orders https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/orders [2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tSkBafqSz-xEdM1VLbQyQN1KF4CKf7nGE-Du645YsPo/pub?gid=7# https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tSkBafqSz-xEdM1VLbQy... Edit: added the AF recent order, and the A350-800 adjustment.

matwood 11y ago

The fix for jet lag is to fly in business class or better. EDIT Not sure why the down votes. Being able to properly sleep while on a plane is absolutely the best way to beat jet leg.

johansch 11y ago
Yeah. The problem with travel hacking (it's not really economically feasible to fly business between Europe and US for most of us) is that you get so used to it that every single transatlantic work trip becomes a big complicated optimization game. Flying economy simple stops being an option. This time the other day I lucked out via what seemed to be a Star Alliance-wide mistake fare between Scandinavia and Seattle and a few more US cities ($700 for r/t business class!). That plus a cheap connecting flight to the Bay area fixed it for this time.
- zemvpferreira 11y ago
  How do you find these fares and connections? Seems like a non-trivial amount of work to look at every possible route combination between two cities. I do Lisbon-SF twice a month and would gladly upgrade to business at 2x cost of economy.
  - nommm-nommm 11y ago
    http://www.secretflying.com/ http://www.secretflying.com/
  - johansch 11y ago
    Flyertalk, businessclass.{se,no,dk,co.uk}, insideflyer.de, onemileatatime.boardingarea.com etc etc. Plus personal crawler projects and contacts with similar-minded people. Warning: if you don't find this fun it's probably not worth the time. Expect to spend a lot of time chasing these deals. It does seem to get harder over time, judging from my ~5 years in the game. Just a few years ago there were gaping holes in the system, allowing anyone to buy 100k miles from US Airways for $1200 and then spend them on quite on e.g. a 90k mile (or was it 110k?) First class roundtrips Europe/NA-Asia with e.g. ANA, Asiana iirc.

freshfey 11y ago

I'm currently using a combination of Jetlag Rooster (http://www.jetlagrooster.com/ http://www.jetlagrooster.com/), fasting, drinking lots of water and eating the first meal after arrival with their time (if you arrive at 9am, you'd eat breakfast there) - this has worked very good for both me and multiple people I've recommended it to. I usually fast between 12-24 hours, depending on the traveling time, drink lots and it has worked for going both to the East and coming back from it. I wrote about it in more detail here: http://bitehype.com/how-to-successfully-avoid-and-hack-a-jet-lag/ http://bitehype.com/how-to-successfully-avoid-and-hack-a-jet...

dorfsmay 11y ago
I.be seen studies, and found it works well for me, that the ideal is to only eat once a day, at diner time of your destination. I don't always manage to do it during travel but do it for 2 or 3 days once I've arrived.
chockablock 11y ago
Interesting. There is clear animal data showing that food timing is a strong input to ththe circadian clock, I hadn't seen it applied to people before.

drglitch 11y ago

Boeings 787s and "new cabin" 778 retrofits have this feature. It was touted by AA and United a while back. When i actually flew in one, flight attendants made zero use of it and just went from 100% bright to to regular "lights off, good night" as soon as meal service was done.

cylinder 11y ago
Yeah United the same on my 787 journeys. Truly the worst staff in the world consistently. However, 787 does have pressurization and humidity features as well and these made a huge reduction in my jet lag over the 777 and A380
- rosser 11y ago
  Seriously, the cabin climate changes on Dreamliners make 10-hour flights feel more like 6-hour flights to me, in terms of how useless I am at remembering my name and why I'm visiting upon reaching the immigration counter in the destination country.
- rgo 11y ago
  I thought A380 and 787 had equivalent cabin pressure of 6000 ft with similar humidity features. That said, I unfortunately did not notice any reduction in tiredness or jet lag in either plane compared to older aircraft. But I did enjoy the lower noise levels and higher stability of the A380, which make for a more pleasant journey overall. I feel less worn off when I land, which means I'll take less to recover from the flight itself, which I find more damaging then the time zone differences.
  - cylinder 11y ago
    agree. The a380 is tremendous, especially when combined with Qantas service.
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  I second the pressurisation and humidity features. Also, they use electric compressors instead of bleed air, which helps to reduce engine fumes in cabin. These things made my trip significantly better.

tim333 11y ago

Hmm - having mucked about with a variety of lighting it's only seems mildly effective for reducing jet lag. The article says they are fitting fancy coloured leds that they hope will help, not as far as I can see that they've actually tried it and found it effective. I find melatonin and ambien reduce the jet lag effects about 50% but that's a fair bit more hard core than some LEDs.

leoedin 11y ago

If this works, then why does jet lag often persist for days after arriving at your destination? The light is obviously in sync with local time there, but it still takes a few days for your body to adjust.

johnm1019 11y ago
TLDR; It doesn't fix jetlag but it might get you started on the right path one "day" cycle sooner. There isn't "one simple trick" and not have jet lag. Everyone will have jetlag after going through a large time change. Your body can only accomodate so quickly depending on the magnitude of the change. IME people recover 0.5-2 hours of time change a day. So if you go through a change, it will take anywhere from 3-12 days to fully recover. You don't even realize it until you've been somewhere for a while and one day you wake up and realize you are fully rested for the first time in a week (even though the other days felt basically fine).

11thEarlOfMar 11y ago

After 1.5 million lifetime miles, much of it intercontinental, it boils down to 2 rules for me: - Flying East to Europe: Get out in the sun after landing and don't fall asleep until at least 8:00 PM local time. - Flying West to Asia: Stay on US time. Go to sleep at 6:00 PM local time, get up at 2:00 AM. Obviously, avoid evening appointments. If that isn't possible, at least schedule them after you've been in country a couple of days.

hyperpape 11y ago
I'm curious: what's the idea behind waking up at 2:00 AM? Are you the sort of person who can't easily sleep more than 8 hours?
- tim333 11y ago
  Not the above poster but I find you just tend to wake up about 2am because your body thinks it's 10am and time to get up.
- pcl 11y ago
  It's only mildly awkward to go to bed at 6pm, and then when you fly back east, you don't have much jetlag in that direction either. 2am in China is 11am in SF. (I'm assuming the OP is flying from the US, based on the destination choices.) EDIT: removed bad NYC math.
  - 0x0 11y ago
    Did you get SF and NYC mixed up? Isn't 8am SF == 11am NYC?
    - dmoy 11y ago
      Yes, also the offsets are wrong. China (East coast time right now is 9 hr diff from West coast usa. After daylight ends it's another hr diff. It is never a 6 hr diff.
      - 11y ago

gingerlime 11y ago

Perhaps I'm saying this because I only experienced jet lag on holidays but I love it. I flew several times from Europe to Asia. I couldn't get much sleep on the plane and was very tired so managed to sleep easily and the next days were a bit hazy but fun. On the way back it's the best part. I always end up going to bed early and waking up early. I love it. I normally can't sleep that easily or wake up so fresh early in the morning. I feel very productive working in the early hours of the morning (only on jet lag). Maybe I'm odd, but I wish I could stretch my jet lag even further, rather than get rid of it.

cylinder 11y ago
Hah, I felt the same returning to US from Europe. For a week I was waking up at 5am and going to watch the sunrise for the first time ever. It was amazing, I wish I could always do that. I recently flew the Dreamliner to Australia and experienced no jet lag. Noticeable difference.
- adriand 11y ago
  I like flying from Canada to Europe because when I arrive, I'm primed to be able to party until 4:00 or 5:00 am, like the locals. Whereas back home, I'm so used to going to bed at 11 and getting up at 6, it takes a lot of effort to stay up late. This kind of jet lag helps me relive my twenties, and since I'm never there on business, always just pleasure, it works out very well.
1_player 11y ago
> I only experienced jet lag on holidays but I love it I feel the same on slight sleep deprivation: if you usually get a good night's sleep and one day wake up after 3/4 hours, after the groggy phase you'd feel in a positive, relaxed mood, probably not top notch mentally but it's very similar to having drunk a small amount of alcohol. I really enjoy it. It doesn't work if you are already sleep deprived.
- shin_lao 11y ago
  Actually sleep deprivation has been proven to be equivalent to being intoxicated. I can't find the resource unfortunately.

robbles 11y ago

This "16.7M colours" stat that reporters wave around always gets me. It's just 24-bit color, doesn't mean it's "high tech". I can make you 16.7M colours with a $3 microcontroller and LEDs from the hardware store. What they should discuss instead is the color gamut of the LEDs and how much of the visible light spectrum they can accurately reproduce.

rosser 11y ago
They aren't writing the article for technologists and color-gamut-philes. If anything, they're writing it for people who fly long-haul and consequently suffer from jet lag when they have actual business to conduct. Talking about the number of colors the LEDs can produce is far more likely to convey to that audience how this is supposed to work than delving into the kind of details you'd probably have to read the spec sheet on the individual diodes to find.

mazumdar 11y ago

one of the things that make you feel tired after long flights is noise pollution. we don't realize it because it's something we expect during flights but our mind and body is essentially sitting through hours of loud humming that takes a toll on us. The solution for me is good noise canceling headphones. If you fly often, invest in a good pair and it will do wonders for you. It has for me.

chockablock 11y ago
Agreed on noise fatigue. Good -30dB earplugs (worn under headphones if nec), even while sleeping, make me land much better rested (and are ~$0). Doesn't help with jetlag itself (I.e. the mismatch btw astronomic and biological time), but still a big deal.

InTheArena 11y ago

This is airbus's attempt to come up with hype to fight the real advantages of the 787, 350 and CRFP - most notably greater pressure and higher humidity. I'm in a much better state coming off a 787 in economy plus then a 380 in business (assuming that I don't sleep on both). Boeing introduced the lights on their sky interior a few years ago, and it didn't really make a difference.

samsonradu 11y ago
Interesting, didnt know why I felt like shit on a 380 after a 12h flight. Had a terrible headache and a sore throat. Is sitting at the first floor even worse? It was also very cold but not sure if related. Boeing felt a bit different (better) over the same distance but I thought it was just me
- monort 11y ago
  Do you drink a lot of caffeine at home? I was always getting headaches on a long flights before realizing that it was a caffeine withdrawal.
  - samsonradu 11y ago
    I do but my headaches then was due to the cabin pressure + air conditioning I believe. I was drinking coffee on the plane too so..

intrasight 11y ago

My first work flight to Europe (about 30 years ago) I was upgraded to first class upon getting on the plane. First class at that time was in the nose of the 747. Business class was on the 2nd level. I walked into the nose and found that I was the only one there. Because the nose is basically a triangle, one of the results is that one seat is isolated all by itself. I choose that seat and thought "cool, I'll be like Captain Kirk on the bridge". Being young (~21) and inexperienced, jet lag was not on my mind - I was looking forward to my time as Captain Kirk. A few other passengers can onto the "bridge" and the a stewardess came in and asked me if I'd like a drink. I had about two drinks before passing out. I slept all the way to Europe and was somewhat miffed at myself. But upon arrival I found that I did not experience any jet lag. Over a year I did the same trip a couple more times, was not so fortunate to be placed on the bridge, get free drinks, and be comfortable. On those trips I did experience jet lag.

heleph 11y ago
I do UK to Australia every other year. I started in my early twenties and am now mid thirties. I've found jetlag has gotten worse as I've got older. I hardly felt it when I was 21! I'd say it takes about three days to be sleeping ok again now. My parents always take at least a week to recover. Except this time. I had a six month old baby and jetlag felt completely the same as just being at home. :)
- intrasight 11y ago
  Jetlag definitely does get worse with age. Totally concur on the comparison to a six month old. My daughter taught me patience and perseverance - from birth until present. I know some day she will return the favor.
- julian_t 11y ago
  Definitely agree on the age thing... I've just turned 60 and it takes me days to get fully recovered from flying LN-NY, much longer than it used to. Melatonin and adjusting sleep times helps a bit, but not as much as I'd wish. Not being able to sleep on planes doesn't help either. On the overnight flight back to LN, I'm the one with the reading light on all night...

Aperson4321 11y ago

With Virtual Reality in mind I feel that I should mention that people have noticed that VR can mess with peoples day and night cycle perception. When I listen to audio books I often use my D2 Oculus rift VR headseat and explore like a tourist cool looking custom minecraft maps with the MineCrift mod, I have experiences some confusion after being in a day time VR world and taking off the VR headseat and seeing that it is night time in real life, and the opposite with night time VR scenes at day time IRL. The ability of high quality VR to mess with the visual senses of people is really powerfull and not restricted to entertainment.

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happytrails 11y ago

This reads like an advertisement.

uiorew 11y ago

Since this came up in a course recently, apparently jet lag is (at least partially) caused by: 1. Your circadian rhythm [1] being out of sync. In a nutshell, a reasonable amount of internal biology is synchronized to the time of day to improve efficiency. If your activity isn't in sync with what your 'internal clock' is expecting, you experience jet lag. 2. A limited ability for the clock to adjust to a new timezone. The direction of adjustment is encoded by a phase response curve [2] and is affected by exposure to light -- practically nothing else can shift it. 11thEarlOfMar has the right idea -- if you can avoid light exposure entirely, your clock won't shift and you won't be jetlagged. Otherwise, large doses of light at the right times of day are (apparently) the best cure. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Humans [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_response_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_response_curve

chockablock 11y ago
Timing of eating is also an input to circadian rhythm (at least in rats)--I'll try to find the cite.
- uiorew 11y ago
  Here's [1] what appears to be a good one (or, at least, it has some citations to other papers which might be better) -- the first section after the abstract is an intro to circadian rhythms, including references to food zeitgebers in rats, rabbits and adorable hamsters. IIRC there doesn't appear to be a strong effect in humans, but I'm slacking off as is and won't be digging up a reference for that XD [1]: http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/274/6/R1751.short http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/274/6/R1751.short

jsprogrammer 11y ago

>Throw in an air management system that renews the air every two minutes while helping regulate cabin temperature, and sitting onboard an A350 may be less harsh on your body than hanging out at home. Even taking into account the extra radiation exposure?

matznerd 11y ago

To combat jet lag, try drinking a ton of water. I'm talking liters of water, I usually will consume a minimum of 3 liters of water while flying, in addition to water I drink before and after the flight. I also take at least 200mg of CoQ10/Ubiquinol each hour of the flight, in addition to extra before and after the flight. It seems to help a lot.

jessaustin 11y ago
I hope you're on an aisle seat!

keithgabryelski 11y ago

seems like this would work out well except for every flight i've been on there has been at least one person unwilling to close their damn window shade.

washadjeffmad 11y ago

I take a small (0.2-0.4mg) dose of melatonin about 5 hours before the time I want to 'get sleepy' when travelling or returning. After a day or two of doing this, as well as getting plenty of daytime sunshine, I'm usually adjusted well enough not to notice any jet lag.