4 ms·

Does buying one of these on eBay get you the right to run zOS ? If so that could be a lower cost alternative for people interested in learning about mainframes

by tgflynn 11y ago

Does buying one of these on eBay get you the right to run zOS ? If so that could be a lower cost alternative for people interested in learning about mainframes, since if you had the usage rights you could run zOS on Hercules and just store the actual hardware.

yuhong 11y ago
No.
- tgflynn 11y ago
  In that case I'm not sure I see the point in buying something like this just to run Linux. Linux looks pretty much the same no matter what it's running on.
  - icelancer 11y ago
    To preserve history and collect it.
    - tgflynn 11y ago
      Sure I get that but if you can't run the software that was/is most frequently used on these machines then you're only preserving half the history.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - srcmap 11y ago
    To learn and keep the basement nice and warm (all 6kw of them) . :-)
emersonrsantos 11y ago
From hercules-390 FAQ (which I was a developer long ago). OS/390, z/OS, and other ESA or z/Architecture operating systems are definitely licensed to a particular machine. Therefore, in practice you cannot run any classic ESA or z/Architecture operating system on your PC unless you can obtain a license from IBM allowing you to do so. It is believed that there are, however, four ways you could run z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE, OS/390, VM/ESA, or VSE/ESA under Hercules using currently available licenses: 1. Running under Linux on the Pentium processor of a P/390 which is licensed to run the OS. 2. Running under Linux/390 on a mainframe which is licensed to run the OS. 3. Running under the terms of a disaster recovery provision of the OS license (but I really don't recommend depending on Hercules to be your disaster recovery solution!). 4. Using the IBM OS/390 or z/OS DemoPkg, which is available only to IBM employees and IBM Business Partners
bluedino 11y ago
You can run the OS but you can't run anything that a business would use on it (at least not without winning the lottery). Any software package you'll find in the real world is going to be $100k
- tgflynn 11y ago
  For learning purposes being able to run zOS would probably be of considerable interest. If the machine actually requires 6 kW to run then I guess the electricity costs would be on the order of $1 per hour, depending on your local rates. Maybe you could set up a service to sell login access. Note that I'm only speculating here. I'm not a mainframer, just a guy who's had a passing interest in these systems and when I was reading about them it appeared that the difficulty of gaining access to these environments was a significant obstacle to learning about them, whether for professional or hobbyist reasons, that despite the fact that there appears to still be quite a bit of demand for mainframe programmers.
- pbhjpbhj 11y ago
  In the USA you'd be able to copy any software available if it was for research, wouldn't you - provided it's also not commercial then there's a strong case for Fair Use exception. Non-commercial is not an absolute defence not a requirement for Fair Use by it is a factor and with the educational/research facets ...
  - tgflynn 11y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's not correct. If it were why would research labs have to pay for things like Matlab ?
    - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
      They're not researching Matlab, they're using it as a tool; it's also likely a commercial use (which isn't synonymous with profit-making FWIW).
e12e 11y ago
Another thing I wonder about, is how hard it would be to crack these things in order to run at full speed/cores. Assuming you're not a business dodging IBM licensing fees, I can't imagine the chances of getting caught are very big -- and in either case it's an interesting intellectual problem (ignoring for a moment the legality of breaking licence agreements).

by tgflynn 11y ago

yuhong 11y ago

No.

tgflynn 11y ago
In that case I'm not sure I see the point in buying something like this just to run Linux. Linux looks pretty much the same no matter what it's running on.
- icelancer 11y ago
  To preserve history and collect it.
  - tgflynn 11y ago
    Sure I get that but if you can't run the software that was/is most frequently used on these machines then you're only preserving half the history.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- srcmap 11y ago
  To learn and keep the basement nice and warm (all 6kw of them) . :-)

emersonrsantos 11y ago

From hercules-390 FAQ (which I was a developer long ago). OS/390, z/OS, and other ESA or z/Architecture operating systems are definitely licensed to a particular machine. Therefore, in practice you cannot run any classic ESA or z/Architecture operating system on your PC unless you can obtain a license from IBM allowing you to do so. It is believed that there are, however, four ways you could run z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE, OS/390, VM/ESA, or VSE/ESA under Hercules using currently available licenses: 1. Running under Linux on the Pentium processor of a P/390 which is licensed to run the OS. 2. Running under Linux/390 on a mainframe which is licensed to run the OS. 3. Running under the terms of a disaster recovery provision of the OS license (but I really don't recommend depending on Hercules to be your disaster recovery solution!). 4. Using the IBM OS/390 or z/OS DemoPkg, which is available only to IBM employees and IBM Business Partners

bluedino 11y ago

You can run the OS but you can't run anything that a business would use on it (at least not without winning the lottery). Any software package you'll find in the real world is going to be $100k

tgflynn 11y ago
For learning purposes being able to run zOS would probably be of considerable interest. If the machine actually requires 6 kW to run then I guess the electricity costs would be on the order of $1 per hour, depending on your local rates. Maybe you could set up a service to sell login access. Note that I'm only speculating here. I'm not a mainframer, just a guy who's had a passing interest in these systems and when I was reading about them it appeared that the difficulty of gaining access to these environments was a significant obstacle to learning about them, whether for professional or hobbyist reasons, that despite the fact that there appears to still be quite a bit of demand for mainframe programmers.
pbhjpbhj 11y ago
In the USA you'd be able to copy any software available if it was for research, wouldn't you - provided it's also not commercial then there's a strong case for Fair Use exception. Non-commercial is not an absolute defence not a requirement for Fair Use by it is a factor and with the educational/research facets ...
- tgflynn 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's not correct. If it were why would research labs have to pay for things like Matlab ?
  - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
    They're not researching Matlab, they're using it as a tool; it's also likely a commercial use (which isn't synonymous with profit-making FWIW).

e12e 11y ago

Another thing I wonder about, is how hard it would be to crack these things in order to run at full speed/cores. Assuming you're not a business dodging IBM licensing fees, I can't imagine the chances of getting caught are very big -- and in either case it's an interesting intellectual problem (ignoring for a moment the legality of breaking licence agreements).