23 ms·

Let’s ban elementary homework

515 points by umpaloop 11y ago

krasin 11y ago
The article doesn't have a single reference to a research paper. It's entirely possible to write a similar essay with an opposite title like "The research is clear, let's keep elementary homework", and it would be just as convincing. edit: a typo
- chris_wot 11y ago
  I think you mean it doesn't have a single reference to the paper. This is why it's detrimental to have all these Journal articles locked away from public view. A researcher can make a claim that influences public opinion, but the general public must pay a lot of money to actually review what the claim is based upon! The paper is, incidentally: Cooper, H., Robinson, J. C., & Patall, E. A. (2006). Does homework improve academic achievement? A synthesis of research, 1987-2003. Review of Educational Research, 76, 1-62. Luckily there is a copy of that article you can find here: http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Does-Homework-Improve-Academic-Achieve%C2%ADment-A-Synthesis-of-Research-FIXED.pdf http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Does-Homework... The abstract reads, in part: No strong evidence was found for an association between the homework-achievement link and the outcome measure (grades as opposed to standardized tests) or the subject matter (reading as opposed to math). On the basis of these results and others, the authors suggest future research.
  - krasin 11y ago
    >I think you mean it doesn't have a single reference to the paper. yes, thank you for the catch.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      No probs, I've done this myself on a few occasions :-)
- aab0 11y ago
  It makes two references, actually: Cooper compiled 120 studies in 1989 and another 60 studies in 2006. This comprehensive analysis of multiple research studies found no evidence of academic benefit at the elementary level. It did, however, find a negative impact on children’s attitudes toward school. The 1989 reference is the book _Homework_ by Cooper, and the 2006 reference is "Does Homework Improve Academic Achievement? A Synthesis of Research, 1987–2003", Cooper et al 2006 http://upload-community.kipa.co.il/819201525856.pdf http://upload-community.kipa.co.il/819201525856.pdf If you are going to only have two research paper/book references, comprehensive meta-analyses are good choices. FWIW, the claims are consistent with what I've always read about homework research and there's no contradiction in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homework either.
chris_wot 11y ago
Hmmm... it's funny this. I think the pressure of completing set homework causes a lot of pressure for young children. My daughter is now in year 3, and I get her to do a small amount of homework but I've never pushed it and if she's very tired or emotional then I see how she's going, and skip it if things are too bad. My son is in year 1, and he doesn't have very much homework (neither does my daughter to be honest), but after getting him settled at a desk he just tends to do it very quickly then run off and plays. I found that for my daughter, I was able to imbue a love of learning when she was in Kindy and year 1 by buying a whiteboard and getting her to do her work on it. Also, my clear excitement and my own love of learning (I was and still am studying mathematics) rubbed off. In fact, I was going through Trigonometry again at one stage and she was interested why there were circles and triangles on the whiteboard, so I explained what an angle is and that trigonometry is the relationship between angles and sides. I would say she was the only year 1 in her school who knew what trigonometry was - I think her teacher was rather surprised when she used the word, and even more surprised when she was able to explain what it actually was! :-)
- sre_ops 11y ago
  Enjoy having your children bring you to the interviews when they try to get a job at the gentle age of 24.
- justinclift 11y ago
  Next, teach her radians. :)
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    Ha! First I'll need to explain circumference and pi
    - justinclift 11y ago
      She sounds like she'd be good with that. :)
_ph_ 11y ago
While not completely abolished, homework should be issued much more cautiously. Most of the reasons against homework listed in the article are rather signs of bad homework. Homework should mean that the child spends a reasonable (depending on age) time to try to apply the (hopefully) learned skills on her own and without supervision. Failure to do so should trigger some interaction with the teacher, not punishment. For that reason, parents should also mostly stay out of homework. While traditionally school time in Germany ended at 1pm, there are now models, where the children stay at school after lunch and working on their "homework" in special sessions where some teacher is present for questions and interaction, not taking any of the homework home.
Someone1234 11y ago
It is great to hear someone so prominent say this, and I hope it makes a difference. I will say, as someone who has worked in education, education as an area is incredibly cargo cult-filled. Even educational research, and educational theory is full of culty trends (that seemingly change entirely every few years) and aren't what I'd call scientifically rigorous. As this article itself says we've known since the 1980s that homework at that age was harmful and we've known since the 1990s that older kids need a later start, but has that changed anything? Not that I've seen, High School level kids still start at 7:30am here and homework is still given to elementary school-age kids. Education has remained largely unchanged since the 1950s or before (technology not withstanding), and we've likely spending more on educational research and training now as we ever have, and what are the results? How much has school really changed in our lifetime? If anything they've only doubled-down with classical education being popular again, homework for homework's sake, learning for the tests, heavily structured classes, and subjects which both kids and staff call useless. I just want to say I am not shitting on teachers. Teachers do a fantastic job under difficult conditions and near constant criticism. This is a structural problem, not a teacher problem. It is at the school district/state education/educational research level, it is also somewhat intertwined within teacher education itself (e.g. continuous learning, but learning this year's latest trendy teaching technique which will be forgotten and discarded in a year).
- superuser2 11y ago
  I think it has less to do with bureaucrats than parents. Any meaningful change to K12 pedagogy is met with vigorous opposition from parents because to so many people, the only right way to teach is the way they were taught. See the New Math of the 70s, the Common Core, etc. You cannot make a major change to K12, good or bad, and get away with it.
  - Osiris 11y ago
    I see parents talking like this all the time. "Who can understand how they are teaching kids to add these days?", but when I look at it what they are teaching my kids, it fits with how I do it in my head vs. how I was taught to do it on paper. People are resistant to change even when they say they want change (politics is a great of example of wanting "change" but having a fit when things actually change).
Glyptodon 11y ago
The 2 hour limit thing sounds fine, but I'm somewhat convinced that bad assignments and poor materials have to play a large part in the overall result. At the very least I'm not convinced that reading a few chapters of an age appropriate book or the odd creative project (draw something, etc.) or short writing assignment can be bad (or take more than an hour). On the other hand, I'm sure writing all 25 of your vocabulary words 5 times each isn't particularly helpful. (This was the main homework assignment I remember getting as a 2nd grader. I hated it because it made my hand sore (possibly because I was always trying to do it as fast as possible) and was boring.)
- seanp2k2 11y ago
  If / when I have children, I'd make it a point to teach them how to program things like that instead of just doing it by hand. Programming is a much more useful skill than cursive in 2016, and I'm sure that that'll only be more true when the time comes.
  - jacalata 11y ago
    There's some evidence that while producing cursive isnt useful, the process of learning and using it is useful: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/16/cognitive-benefits-handwriting-decline-typing https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/16/cognitive-be... If you're taking over your kids education, you probably want to add some elements that replace it instead of just ditching handwriting altogether.
- crusso 11y ago
  I've found over the years that my children's worst teachers were the ones who assigned the most homework. Invariably, they supplemented their poor focus on conveying concepts with lots and lots of homework. A ton of homework is a smell that I've learned to look into in order to see if I need to meet with the teacher and possibly talk to the school administration.
  - stevesearer 11y ago
    I remember a math class from high school whose homework seemed like it took me way too long to complete. Looking back, the teacher was actually one of my best and the length of time I spent on that homework was more of a signal that I didn't excel in the course or subject matter. But then I had other teachers who assigned homework which was likely motivated by a need to have things in the gradebook that weren't tests
kbd 11y ago
I remember getting a ton of homework in kindergarden. I never did it, and I always felt guilty about not doing it. I expected something bad to happen at the end of the year, but nothing did. Lots of bad lessons for life were learned that year.
JshWright 11y ago
The article states: "Before going further, let’s dispel the myth that these research results are due to a handful of poorly constructed studies. In fact, it’s the opposite. Cooper compiled 120 studies in 1989 and another 60 studies in 2006." However, the 2006 meta-analysis explicitly says that all 60 studies had design flaws. To quote the conclusion: "We hope that this report has demonstrated the value of research synthesis for testing the plausibility of causal relationships even when less-than-optimal research designs and analyses are available in the literature."
tominous 11y ago
There are three key arguments in the article: homework saps intrinsic motivation to learn, harms relationships at home, and has an opportunity cost in sleep, rest and play. It all makes a lot of sense to me, but I have one thought. In many activities I find I need an initial period of tedious repetition before the fun part kicks in. Things like playing an instrument, learning a language, and some parts of mathematics. And nothing saps motivation at school more than being behind the class from the start and completely lost. So is there a role to play for homework in pushing through the hard part at the beginning?
- mafribe 11y ago
  is there a role to play for homework in pushing through the hard part Yep, you got it exactly right. A N Whitehead has said it better than I can, so let's quote him: "Many think we should cultivate the habit of thinking of what we are doing. The precise opposite is the case. Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them." Homework helps with repetition even for extrinsically motivated students, which leads to the ability to perform without thinking, which is the basis of mastery and enjoyment.
  - learc83 11y ago
    Sure there is a place for repetitive reinforcement based learning, but kids already spend 7 hours a day at school. There's no reason we can't cut out an hour of instruction and replace it with guided homework time.
    - mafribe 11y ago
      Sure, but do schools do this? Moreover, some people cannot focus well in the presence of others (see also the complains about open-plan offices), and for them repetitive reinforcement just works better at home.
      - learc83 11y ago
        No schools in the US don't do this, but we are talking about ways to improve school. I realize that some people work better at home, but forcing everyone to spend 7 hours at school and then 1-2+ hours practicing at home isn't the best option. Many countries with very high performing schools have a much shorter school day than we do, and I think asking kids to devote 10+ hours a day to school (including bus time and homework), is a bit ridiculous.
skolos 11y ago
I have two elementary school kids. In my view the biggest benefit of the homework is that I can observe if my kids lagging behind in some topics and help them to catch up if necessary. Usually this happens because teachers did not do good job explaining those topics. So it looks like the homework in public schools is a stopgap for lousy teachers.
- labster 11y ago
  This is a stopgap that is only effective in cases where the parents are knowledgeable and interested in their children's education and have free time to assist. It would be better to do this from within the educational system, because everyone would be covered. Team teaching, anyone?
debacle 11y ago
Lets revisit the English curriculum and actually start teaching kids something about the art of writing rather than literary analysis. English homework (outside of grammar, writing, and spelling) has the lowest potential ROI out of all homework, yet it always seems to be the most time intensive.
gt565k 11y ago
"Homework has no place in a young child’s life. With no academic benefit, there are simply better uses for after-school hours." Sorry, but that's just plain wrong! It's not the amount of homework that's the problem, it's the quality. I've been waiting to weigh in on K-12 US education for quite some time, so excuse my long reply. I hope some find it informative. Here I go with my Eastern European perspective on homework in grades 1-6. My education in the US started in 7th grade, after completing grades 1-6 in Bulgaria. I studied German from grades 1-4, when enrolled in a music academy and played percussion instruments (drums and xylophone), and also learned the basics of playing the piano, and folklore dancing. I practiced playing percussion for at least 2 hours a day and did homework for another 2-3 hours a day in those grades. During the Summer after 4th grade, I was taking private lessons in Math, as I was applying to a specialized Math and Science school. In those private lessons, I learned about linear equations, mathematical series (geometric, etc), and how to derive their formulas, among other subjects that are typically taught in grades 7-10 in the US. After taking the placement exam, I got into the school, where I also had to pick German or English. I picked English and had about 10-12 actual hours of English classes a week. Every day we learned 15-25 English vocabulary words, and for homework, I had to write each word 20 times in a notebook, which was periodically graded by the teacher. This was on top of learning grammar and memorizing short stories (2-3 times a semester) that I'd have to recite for a grade. I also had extra curricular Math classes on Saturdays that discussed special math topics. On average, I'd spent anywhere between 2-4 hours a day on homework for all of my classes, sometimes a lot more. That was in 5th and 6th grade. Classes were taught in 2 different schedules. 7:30 - 2:30pm OR 11pm - 6pm. Which alternated every semester. Also, I had plenty of time to play around with kids in the neighborhood and enjoy my childhood. That stuff you see in those youtube videos of Russian kids climbing old abandoned soviet buildings and doing crazy parkour stunts? Yep, I did all of those too! Kids, especially in elementary school, should be taught the principles of hard work and time management and be exposed to as many different subjects and skills as possible. There isn't a better time for it, because the older you get, the less free time you have to do the things you want! The doom of american education is standardized scantron tests. Students should be tested on how well they know and apply concepts, instead of how well they can eliminate answers and guess the correct one. Unfortunately you'll never see a student in the US be graded on his ability to solve a math problem on the chalk board, or recite a poem, or history lesson in front of the class. That is what I had to do in grades 1-6. It teaches you to always be prepared, because the instructor can call on you at any time. I had anywhere between 3-7 actual grades (marks) in most of my classes. Some of them were impromptu examinations by being called on randomly to do a math problem on a chalk board, explain the significance of a particular king/ruler in history class, recite a poem in literature class, recite a short-text in a foreign language class, and the rest were tests and midterms. Compare that to the US, where you have 10 up to 20 graded assignments per class in K-12. I found homework assignments in 7-12 grade in the US to be a complete joke. Fill out blanks on a piece of paper by copying them from the textbook or complete a huge packet of boring mind numbing problems? What in the world? I'll assume that's because those are easy to grade, but in reality, it's much better to give fewer more complex assignments that require a lot more knowledge and skills to complete. Quality over quantity!
Gratsby 11y ago
My school district has a limit - 10 minutes per night per grade. Then they throw all the rules out the window in high school if you are in honors classes. I was skeptical moving into the district, but I'm actually kind of surprised at how little of a difference it makes. Same grades, same progress, less stressed kids.
- nikhizzle 11y ago
  Where do you live?
  - Gratsby 11y ago
    Palo Alto
bobby_9x 11y ago
This will only hurt the inner city students. I know a few teachers in some really poor areas and many teachers have to fight against unearning at home. Homework helps with this. I also don't think a student can learn enough in the classroom. With ever growing class sizes, students just can't get all they need in terms of learning, without homework. I just have to shake my head at one more thing that will put our future generation behind the rest of the world.
- gohrt 11y ago
  Homework is good because it solves the problem of schools and home being bad?
  - varjag 11y ago
    Homework is an imperfect real world solution to a real world problem. As opposed to no real world solution to a real world problem.
EGreg 11y ago
Yes! There is a place for homework: it should be group exercises done at SCHOOL. And lectures should be replaced with multimedia learning at HOME. Here is my proposal I am working on. If anyone reads this and wants to join me, email me: http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=158 http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=158
- stevesearer 11y ago
  It sounds like you're describing Flipping the Classroom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom
  - EGreg 11y ago
    Plus a daily testing regime, incentive structure for kids, and feedback loop for lectures
    - charlieflowers 11y ago
      Start one in Atlanta, with a start time of 10 am and a reasonable tuition price, and I'll sign my kid up.
      - EGreg 11y ago
        Seriously? If you don't mind, email me (qbix.com/about) and I'm interested in speaking more about it.
- ASpring 11y ago
  This is a pretty well established paradigm. See [1] for a nice lit review. 1. http://www.studiesuccesho.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/flipped-classroom-artikel.pdf http://www.studiesuccesho.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/flip...
- voyou 11y ago
  Ah yes, the "flipped classroom." Or, as it's been called for 30 years or more "the classroom."
fredliu 11y ago
Interestingly enough that just yesterday I read that the famous "ego depletion" theory backed by tons of serious research might got debunked. And today, "the research is clear" that we should ban elementary homework. I just can't help but think how "clear" the research actually is....
- abecedarius 11y ago
  I'm skeptical too. But getting lots of homework unquestionably imposes a high cost on the children -- especially the younger ones. If you're forcing this cost on the most powerless people around, shouldn't we insist on clearly seeing the benefit? Also, from my experience as a student my prior for that benefit is pretty low. I went to what turned out to be relatively good schools for the U.S., and I still think that before college they were mostly a waste of time that actively turned people off learning. What I mean by skeptical, above, is that hearing of these studies only shifts that opinion a little.
  - kazinator 11y ago
    I'm convinced that if I hadn't done all that mindless arithmetic homework in elementary school, today I wouldn't be able to calculate a tip. Some material just has to be practiced so that it is properly internalized. If all you do is absorb lessons without the underlying practice, the material will evaporate from your brain within a short time. Imagine if you had only seen division or multiplication being done on the blackboard by the teacher, and never practiced it. Today, you'd at best have a faint, dim recollection of having seen such a thing, and you'd be powerless without a calculator when confronted with some matter involving two digit numbers. We should also look at other things that impose a "high cost" on children: spending hours playing video games or noses constantly buried in mobile devices.
    - abecedarius 11y ago
      There was an HN comment thread about an experiment: some classes with no math lessons before, like, middle school or something. (Sorry I don't have the link.) The experimental group soon surpassed the controls once they did get into math, presumably because nobody tried to cram abstract procedures into their heads at too tender an age making them think of math as unpleasant arbitrary magic. This is about what I'd expect from both the idea of Piagetian stages and actual acquaintance with average people who jettisoned most of their school math as soon as they graduated. I agree that you learn by doing and that teaching can guide you to learn more efficiently and broadly, when it's done well. It can even benefit you when mediocre, though the vast majority of schoolwork didn't pay its freight.
bsder 11y ago
Reading one age appropriate book per week has a huge compounding effect. This is known and studied. That counts as homework and clearly refutes the primary statement: "There is no evidence that any amount of homework improves the academic performance of elementary students." As in many things, there is a balance somewhere. You need some level of rote homework to drive home basic concepts. Sorry--vocabulary, spelling, and times tables, for example, need spaced repetition and learning them sucks. But they suck whether you are 5 or 50. However, I find this statement laughable: "Can it be true that the hours of lost playtime, power struggles and tears are all for naught?" If doing homework is a power struggle in elementary school, you're a poor parent and are raising an entitled brat.
- ASpring 11y ago
  >Reading one age appropriate book per week has a huge compounding effect. This is known and studied. That counts as homework and clearly refutes the primary statement: "There is no evidence that any amount of homework improves the academic performance of elementary students." If it's forced reading then you're likely to sap intrinsic motivation from many of the students. I would imagine that the studies you're referencing don't disambiguate whether the child chooses to read the book or is assigned it. But this is speculation since you didn't actually cite anything.
- alextgordon 11y ago
  > However, I find this statement laughable: "Can it be true that the hours of lost playtime, power struggles and tears are all for naught?" If doing homework is a power struggle in elementary school, you're a poor parent and are raising an entitled brat. Yeah kids are so entitled these days. They'll have all the time in the world to have their childhood, when they get to 65.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  > However, I find this statement laughable: "Can it be true that the hours of lost playtime, power struggles and tears are all for naught?" If doing homework is a power struggle in elementary school, you're a poor parent and are raising an entitled brat. Depends greatly on the reason. "I don't want to do homework because I'd rather play video games" isn't generally going to fly (though having some free time is not something to discount entirely). "I don't want to do homework because I'd rather be reading" seems a lot more more reasonable. "I don't want to do homework because I already know all of this material and I'd learn nothing of value by doing it" is often completely reasonable, and a sign that either there's far too much homework or the class is far below the student's level. And, to put it bluntly, quite a lot of K-12 school is a power struggle, and an object lesson in how power can be abused when one side has no recourse. Learning that meta-lesson, recognizing it as a problem, and finding ways to solve it is a critical life skill. Long after K-12 school ends, adults regularly encounter systems that are partly or completely broken. Sometimes the correct solution is "screw this system", and other times the preferable solution is "right or not, do I really want to pay the cost of fighting this battle in this case, or should I choose to lose and deal with it despite being right?". But 13 years of the former always being the only option on the table will not help people learn and maintain that skill, which will not help people learn to find, fix, or build new systems that suck less, whether in education or other areas of life.
jdoliner 11y ago
I'm among the group that has trouble questioning the validity of homework so I tried to approach this article with an open mind. I have some questions regarding what's actually being measured and over what period. In particular how did they conclude that homework is harmful to students? They mention that homework becomes helpful around highschool age. To me it seems that could have as much to do with students having had several years of doing homework to learn how to work effectively alone as it does with the homework being different. Are we sure that by banning homework at an early age we wouldn't be depriving them of the opportunity to get good at working alone and reap benefits later? That's an effect you'd see if the study was conducted over 10 years but not if it was conducted over a single year.
- ASpring 11y ago
  It's a meta-analysis and thus consists of reviewing many prior publications that have widely varying methodologies.
reedlaw 11y ago
I agree 100% but what can be done if the schools don't agree? I live in a small city in China and the middle school starts at 7:15am, has a 1 hour lunch break at noon, and ends at 6:30pm. The kids are expected to finish a big pile of homework every night. Often that means finishing after midnight and getting up the next day at 6:00am. And this is just middle school! High school students live on campus and get 20 minutes for meals. They can't leave campus except for once a month to visit home. Basically the entire high school experience is one big cram session. And what does this achieve? Upon entering college, students experience freedom for the first time and many end up addicted to computer games at night and sleeping through class during the day. They may possess more academic information but in many ways are less equipped than those who took a more laid-back approach. Not all Chinese schools are like this and I'm sure they've improved things in the larger cities but it will take years for better ways to trickle down.
- argonaut 11y ago
  To be fair, I think the article is targeted more towards a western audience, where things are less extreme. Also, the trend in America has been towards more homework over time. Many American parents remember not having much homework in elementary school (I don't think this is true for families in China, where my impression is parents worked just as hard, if not harder, than their kids)
  - reedlaw 11y ago
    I think the results apply to any culture. Excessive studying doesn't produce the intended results. The trend has also been towards increased homework but it's beginning to wane in more developed areas. I wish I knew how to accelerate the trend because it's continuing to do harm to a generation of kids.
    - argonaut 11y ago
      I was not commenting on the results. I was commenting on the person from China's concern that Chinese schools would never agree. This is true. American schools do not have to any degree whatsoever the same kind of homework-driven culture as most Chinese schools.
unstipulated 11y ago
Success likely correlates to life skills over IQ; to IQ over teaching; to teaching over homework. Homework is not needed, not because it provides no specific benefit (biased studies), but because it is the least significant poorly understood thing. She doesn't state it as such because her audience might not normally think statistically.
mikeash 11y ago
What baffles me is that we seem to have accepted that an adult's work should be about five days a week, eight hours a day. If you go beyond that, you hit diminishing returns and it may even be outright counterproductive. Yet we put our kids in school five days a week, eight hours a day, then we give them homework for nights and weekends!
- themartorana 11y ago
  This is a fantastic, amazing, wonderful, and never mentioned point. I am beat after 8 hours of mental output. I mean, I sit in a chair (or stand) at my desk most of the day, and take frequent breaks, and I'm still tired. Why would I expect more of a child?
- accountatwork 11y ago
  > we put our kids in school five days a week, eight hours a day Do kids spend 8 hours a day at school now? Back when I was in school, it was 9-3, including an hour for lunch, plus 5 minutes between classes. On top of that, we got a lot more vacation than I've gotten at any job. If I do the math on it, we spent a total of less than 1000 hours a year in school, less than half the time I spend at work in a year.
  - Kluny 11y ago
    8:30 to 3, plus the hour on either side to get to and from school, plus the 2 hours of homework, plus extracurriculars 2-3 days a week. It varies a lot, but it usually makes for long days.
  - gizmo686 11y ago
    My school (private) had nominal 8 hour days (8-4), but 4 to 4.5 hours of class. The remaining time was spread between two breaks (we only had 3 classes on a given day).
  - thedufer 11y ago
    I think 6 hours/day is pretty normal these days, based on my younger sibling and teacher relatives. Definitely less than a "normal" 40 hour workday.
blisterpeanuts 11y ago
I agree. As the father of an 11-year-old 5th grader, I have absolutely no qualifications to say that, except for how I see the excessive homework they pile on ruining her childhood. She should be out of doors riding her bike, exploring the woods, discovering weird new bugs in the dirt, interacting with friends, reading books, building stuff, play-acting, playing music, dancing, and generally being the amazingly creative kid that she is, that most of us should have been, had that creative spark not been quantified and tested and pigeonholed out of us by years of dreary deadlines and shouting matches and power struggles. The poor kids. I hated homework, school in general actually, for most of my student life, and now I get to watch it crush the next generation. Very jealous of the families who home school.
- abecedarius 11y ago
  What might happen if you encouraged her to skip homework? Is there any mitigation for whatever harms you'd see? I'm just interested in ideas about this: I've been seeing schoolwork darken the life of my niece; her parents are trying to help, and all I can do is mention my opinion to my brother once or twice. I also think homeschooling would be better.
  - blisterpeanuts 11y ago
    She'd start getting all these blue slips, then eventually letters and phone calls from the teacher and the principal. School is all-in or all-out. You either play by their rules, or go somewhere else. I think for grade 6+, we're going to look around a bit but the reality is, we're like most other families, too busy and stressed and not enough funds to really do the right thing which would be home school, or else alternative school. But, maybe we will. She's worth it!
    - abecedarius 11y ago
      Good luck! Yeah, I know there'd be a reaction from the school, but I wonder how much real trouble it'd bring. (Of course it's way easier for me to wonder than for you all to try it. I hope I'm not annoying you here.) When I was a kid I skipped a lot of homework -- for some classes in high school, basically all of it -- which got me in some trouble with my parents and got me kicked out of the honors English tracks twice (in middle school and then in high school), but FWIW I still got into a good college via test scores and (surprisingly) teacher recommendations. Unfortunately I can't claim this would generalize -- these were California schools in relatively affluent neighborhoods, and decades ago, and I'm not your daughter... and I'll shut up now. But I hope this might've been vaguely helpful to hear.
kazinator 11y ago
This article reads like homework is something new. Learning requires doing some exercises. There is no time for that in class, because the class is for lecturing. If homework is handed out at the start of the class, and you start doing it in class, then you aren't paying attention to the class. Homework isn't work to be done specifically at home, just work to be done outside of this class, before the next class. Let's call it school work. If the class is one hour long, three times a week, then that leaves 165 hours in the week in which work for that class can be scheduled. Homework should be reasonably brief, of course; it shouldn't have unnecessary repetition of trivial material. School should also be reasonably short. Classes should end at around noon. Class work should be done after lunch, in lab classes dedicated to that work. Then when school is out at, say, 3 p.m., the class work is done. Those who goofed around in class work labs will have to do some of it at home.
- pjlegato 11y ago
  Maybe a better idea than homework is to include mandatory "study halls" within the actual school day, where kids are expected to work quietly and independently on this followup work.
woopwoop 11y ago
The following is purely psychological armchair theorizing. I think that homework is part of a larger problem where the modern education system slams into children's brains that their time is worthless. Most elementary, middle, and high school homework is simply busywork. The very existence of the word busywork is telling. It's not just the wasted time that isn't valuable: it's the implicit message to a child that the best thing they can do is find something mind-numbing and pointless to do and just keep quiet. You see this in lots of "nice" activities that kids do, which are actually just time sinks that they are pressured or cajoled into. The most prominent example is playing instruments. Like half of kids learn to play an instrument at some point, but hardly any of them keep up with it when they are adults. Some people lament this as though it were some loss of innocence, but if playing an instrument was really a good use of time for most people, adults would do it, and kids would do it willingly. After 18 or more years of this sort of thing, I think it really sinks in that your time is basically worthless, and that it's not worth carefully considering how you spend it. Of course, the opposite is true. Your time is the most precious, and in fact the only, resource that you have. You should guard it jealously, and only spend it on worthwhile things.
- stanmancan 11y ago
  I disagree regarding the instruments. I think learning to play and instrument is about more than just playing it. Learning to play an instrument teaches you a lot of things that are useful in life; a big one being 'practice makes perfect'. My parents had me in piano lessons for about 6 years while I was growing up. I wasn't the best, but with enough practice I was able to learn whatever song it was that I was working on. That same work ethic has done very well for me professionally. As a self-taught developer I have always felt comfortable knowing with enough hard work I'll figure out whatever it is I'm working on. My daughter has started taking music lessons and in the last 6 months I've noticed a very similar thing happening. Ever since she started taking guitar lessons, she has started displaying more patience and confidence in herself than in other tasks like reading and school work than before. It's like it's starting to click with her that reading and math are like her music lessons; it takes practice, and she'll get it soon.
  - 11y ago
rogerthis 11y ago
I'll post this without any real citation, except the word of a high-school, then college teacher and neuroscientist i have known. That teacher said: classes are not for real learning, but for getting the first contact, or solving doubts. Homework is where the magic happens. Small amount of (handwritten) homework, related to the same day class, and a good sleeping night. He also advocated for less class time, some school time for homework, and more time of extra activities not related to TV watching or internet procrastination. Also, reading, reading and more reading.
- rogerthis 11y ago
  And for the sake of justice with the said teacher, 'cause my memory has been betraying me these days, he said the homework discipline should only be enforced after the 5th or 6th grade. Before that, kids should play outside.
kevinwang 11y ago
As a former elementary student, I hated homework more than anyone, but how could you deny the value of repetitive practice for things like writing with a pencil and doing arithmetic? Although those things could be done in class instead. Is that the point?
randyrand 11y ago
How about lets have parents have more choice in their kids schooling? Multiple choices within a district? Vouchers? Something!
kickscondor 11y ago
Anyone out there fact-checking this? Maybe I missed the comment. Quoting Harris Cooper[1] (from the 2006 paper cited in the Salon article): > "With only rare exception, the relationship between the amount of homework students do and their achievement outcomes was found to be positive and statistically significant." Yeah so let's ban elementary homework, amirite?? > "Kids burn out," Cooper said. "The bottom line really is all kids should be doing homework, but the amount and type should vary according to their developmental level and home circumstances. Homework for young students should be short, lead to success without much struggle, occasionally involve parents and, when possible, use out-of-school activities that kids enjoy, such as their sports teams or high-interest reading." I'd need to track down the whole paper to know for sure, but his attitude here seems to advocate 10 minutes of homework (varied topic, positive, etc.) for elementary school kids, in addition to the 20 minutes or so of reading time they should have. This is what I see at the elementary school (public) where I teach. And I think it works well. Are we really railing against 10 minutes of homework for an elementary school kid? I need this time - to check in with my kids when they finish and talk about the answers together. [1] http://today.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html http://today.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html EDIT: Here's another synopsis of the same group of studies, but backed with some actual data, along with recommendations for how homework could be more effective. http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar07/vol64/num06/The-Case-For-and-Against-Homework.aspx http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar0...
- guard-of-terra 11y ago
  It's better to ditch 10 minutes of homework than force 3 hours on children. If we are chosing between two buckets, "homework for elementary" and "no homework for elementary", the second is much much safer, especially in the age of helicopter parents.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  Thank you! This discussion seems to be full of experts (everyone attended school, after all) making sweeping, baseless generalizations. I experienced what you describe, and it was never even called homework. It was learning spelling, times tables, or reading a chapter of a book. Probably from age 8-11, with no homework before age 8.
ClayFerguson 11y ago
All homework for kids is utterly stupid. Adults work 8hrs and come home and are free. Asking kids to continue working throughout the night is freaking stupid. Whoever thought this up was asinine. The only reason teachers assign homework is because they are brainwashed and believe it's just part of life. It doesn't have to be. All it does is make kids less and less interested in perusing learning.
ryanmarsh 11y ago
In seventh grade science that year was "life-science" I don't remember shit from that class. In fact the only thing I remember being taught before the 8th grade was how to math, read, write, and some stuff about the presidents and how a bill becomes law (which turned out to be a big fat lie). Why are we so crazy about cramming so much info into the minds of children? Short of reading, writing, and math what does a kid need to know that can't be taught (probably faster) starting a bit later in life? Shouldn't kids be playing with sticks and frogs and getting fresh air and sunshine? Not having the creativity squeezed out of them in buildings that resemble my office on the inside?
ygmelnikova 11y ago
The deeper issue here are bent social values and 'norms'. The argument for homework must be to get better grades, which theoretically leads to a better paying career. That way you can afford all the crap, vacations, overpriced real estate. You know, be successful and happy. But what about the gaping hole in the middle of your soul that keeps telling you this is not working. The 'is this all there is/was' question you try to suppress with narcotics or some other escape and pain relief. 21 Pilots sums it up well https://youtu.be/pXRviuL6vMY https://youtu.be/pXRviuL6vMY Just to add My daughter was home-schooled, and earns $90/hr building e-commerce and WP sites. She's 22.
hysan 11y ago
You know what is a good homework assignment at the elementary school level? Telling kids to do homework on whatever they want. Read a book (as mentioned in the article), draw a picture, go to the library to look something up, drills if they actually want to do that, write a journal entry, etc. This is what the elementary school does as part of the homework where I live (Japan, not US) and it works quite well. The elementary school ends up ranking quite high in academic scores too. So it isn't hurting the development of the children. I do wish they'd reduce the overall amount of homework, but I guess you can't argue with results. It's still far better than what I see happening back home in the States.
astannard 11y ago
I have a six year old, although this is not homework I do extra tuition with her on maths because she wants to. She bugs me to set her maths questions for her, because she enjoys them. I set them because she enjoys the challenge. I think as long as children enjoy it and don't see it as a choir then its ok. If they resent it though, then that's going damage their love for learning. They need to enjoy learning for learnings sake. Homework needs to be optional, my school also offer alternative pieces of work so the kids can pick one they will enjoy doing the most.
khattam 11y ago
Let's ban Salon articles in Hacker News.
href 11y ago
My elementary school in Switzerland actually did ban homework in the 90s as part of an experiment. I can't speak about my schoolmates, but personally I wasn't too happy as a child. As soon as I hit high school we were bombarded with homework and I always felt that I would have preferred to be prepared for that. At the same time we spent fewer and fewer hours in the classroom as school on Saturday was cut and more special off days were introduced. I think teachers working for these changes meant well but I'm not at all convinced it did any good.
k__ 11y ago
I never did my homework and I always ended up getting in major trouble with teachers who valued homework. This did cost me some good grades. I got a worse grade for not making my homework AND I got demotivated by it and did less for the class. On the other hand, I was never really good at school. Only average. And after I went to university I realized that doing this practical stuff at home helped me more to understand it, so I would probably got better grades if I did homework at school. Luckily I found out that good grades aren't necessary to study computer science. So I got my "dream" degree anyway.
- themartorana 11y ago
  Studying for a degree and doing grade school level busy work are two different things. I never did homework either, where I could avoid it. There was other stuff I wanted to do (as a child, mostly read for hours). I did well in school and enjoy a fulfilling adult life, and am probably much better for how I chose to spend my time. That said, I had very invested parents, I probably "studied" more than I knew because we went over stuff and regurgitated what we learned with our parents, who were both educators, even while I avoided doing hours of homework. In that way I was very lucky.
chae 11y ago
I think there's a fundamental flaw in this article, which is that it uses the blanket term of "homework" to probably mean simple revision of theory taught in class. Coming from a rural primary school where education was subpar, I remember my Mum would make me do maths exercises from a book, with varying levels of difficulty. She was say, "do this chapter", and then I would have to read the entire chapter and work out the answers to the questions just based on the reading - a fantastic exercise in problem solving at that young age. There were annual mathematics competitions which placed your ranking compared to other students in Australia, and - at the time I did that homework - I was in the top 1%. Fast forward a few years where we stopped doing maths exercises and just started relying on what the primary and then subsequent secondary school taught. My grades dropped, going from top 1% to 10% nationally and then lower still. The reason was that I wasn't exposed to enough content from the school itself. Simply put, it is fallacious to argue that less exposure to learning materials puts children in better stead. As far as the idea of disillusionment of children with the world goes: this is more a function of teaching things in an interesting and real-world-applicable way. Entertainment is the name of the game here, not less work. Kids are inspired by what they find fun.
ordbajsare 11y ago
An better idea is to ban compulsory government schooling aka state run forced indoctrination.
agentgt 11y ago
I don't think they should just throw out homework. I have to imagine there is a huge difference between homework done with a parent helping vs independent study. I bet homework where the parent is involved is successful (at least it was for me... and no not the parent doing the work) as it is basically extended school time and I wish the study looked into that more. Also what about an option to choose a particularly subject for homework. That is give the child a choice of which subject to learn more about after hours.
nkrisc 11y ago
I went to a Montessori school from kindergarten through 8th grade. Before 6th or 5th grade we never had "real" homework. around 6th grade they started introducing more structured and rigorous homework, and by 7th and 8th grade we had homework that very closely resembled the type of homework we'd be doing in high school (and as I discovered in high school, was more challenging sometimes). Throughout all that time we never had desks. The majority of our time was unstructured time with which to accomplish whatever tasks we'd been given for the day. We could sit where we pleased as long as we were behaving appropriately. At various times during the day one of the teachers (there were two) would take a small group of kids aside for a lesson. I loved nearly every day of school there and even now people who graduated 8th from there 20 years ago still come to alumni reunions there, it had that great of an effect on them. I did take the power of hindsight, but I realize now how good my elementary education was at that school. And how many kids don't get to have that same level of education. It wasn't cheap, but it's a shame all kids don't get to experience that. The most important thing I learned there was how to think critically and come to my own conclusions on matters. EDIT: Now that I'm reminiscing, my favorite memory is over the course of a few afternoons in 7th grade retreating to the comfy reading area and picking up and reading the classroom's copies of Catcher in the Rye and Lord of the Flies.
- jasonkolb 11y ago
  My kids go to a Montessori school as well. My wife and I were sold on the approach within the first five minutes we were in the classroom during the tour. These were not wild kids being controlled by adults, these were small adults being taught how to function in the world. They came up and shook my hand and introduced themselves, took out and put away their own work, asked for help, and were very polite when they needed a teacher's help. Once we started looking into how the materials were structured and built from basic concepts on up, we were hooked. It's incredibly expensive but also well worth the sacrifice.
  - nkrisc 11y ago
    > these were small adults being taught how to function in the world That's so true. They taught us how to be functioning individuals who could take care of ourselves.
lintiness 11y ago
nobody's going to read this, but there's a better idea on the individual level (my political bias): why not instead of "banning" something we don't like, why don't we teach our own kids to ignore / rebel against the idiot policy? you accomplish more than the positive time / productivity / happiness return; you've also taught the child that authorities and policies are often very very wrong.
kazinator 11y ago
Thinking about this overnight, I realized that this is a historic first. For generations and generations, children have whined about homework. Of course; nearly everyone would rather play than work, and the goal of many working people is to put together enough moola in order to get out of the rat race permanently. People who win big lottery jackpots tend to say "oh, I will still keep going to work; nothing changes". Doesn't last. The historic first may be that now children are starting to have millennial parents who do the homework whining for them.
uday99 11y ago
I think the post doesn't make any sense. For example look at the kids that are from India, who have rigorous syllabus and also homeworks. They CAN definitely do better in University level entrance level exams and crack one of the toughest exams in world called IIT JEE(Indian Institute of Technology- Joint Entrance Exam) First of all I can't imagine average joe from American schools to crack it(not saying that few gifted/ self-home hardworkers can't get thru) at level of 12 grade. And if the post advocates to remove that minimalistic homework..then I can only wish to God save your children.
RUG3Y 11y ago
I have kids in elementary school, I can wholeheartedly stand behind banning homework for them. They're at school most of the day anyway, they're drained when they get home, and we literally have dinner and do homework, and then it's bedtime.
coryfklein 11y ago
The article uses Harris Cooper as a source for their claim. And yet Cooper himself reports: "there was generally consistent evidence for a positive influence of homework on achievement" [1] [1] Does Homework Improve Academic Achievement? A Synthesis of Research by Harris Cooper et al. http://rer.sagepub.com/content/76/1/1.abstract http://rer.sagepub.com/content/76/1/1.abstract
dj_doh 11y ago
I can get behind this idea. Elementary homework, more like childhood stress pill. Just replace them with more do-it-yourself type of projects.

515 points by umpaloop 11y ago

The article doesn't have a single reference to a research paper. It's entirely possible to write a similar essay with an opposite title like "The research is clear, let's keep elementary homework", and it would be just as convincing. edit: a typo

chris_wot 11y ago
I think you mean it doesn't have a single reference to the paper. This is why it's detrimental to have all these Journal articles locked away from public view. A researcher can make a claim that influences public opinion, but the general public must pay a lot of money to actually review what the claim is based upon! The paper is, incidentally: Cooper, H., Robinson, J. C., & Patall, E. A. (2006). Does homework improve academic achievement? A synthesis of research, 1987-2003. Review of Educational Research, 76, 1-62. Luckily there is a copy of that article you can find here: http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Does-Homework-Improve-Academic-Achieve%C2%ADment-A-Synthesis-of-Research-FIXED.pdf http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Does-Homework... The abstract reads, in part: No strong evidence was found for an association between the homework-achievement link and the outcome measure (grades as opposed to standardized tests) or the subject matter (reading as opposed to math). On the basis of these results and others, the authors suggest future research.
- krasin 11y ago
  >I think you mean it doesn't have a single reference to the paper. yes, thank you for the catch.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    No probs, I've done this myself on a few occasions :-)
aab0 11y ago
It makes two references, actually: Cooper compiled 120 studies in 1989 and another 60 studies in 2006. This comprehensive analysis of multiple research studies found no evidence of academic benefit at the elementary level. It did, however, find a negative impact on children’s attitudes toward school. The 1989 reference is the book _Homework_ by Cooper, and the 2006 reference is "Does Homework Improve Academic Achievement? A Synthesis of Research, 1987–2003", Cooper et al 2006 http://upload-community.kipa.co.il/819201525856.pdf http://upload-community.kipa.co.il/819201525856.pdf If you are going to only have two research paper/book references, comprehensive meta-analyses are good choices. FWIW, the claims are consistent with what I've always read about homework research and there's no contradiction in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homework either.

chris_wot 11y ago

Hmmm... it's funny this. I think the pressure of completing set homework causes a lot of pressure for young children. My daughter is now in year 3, and I get her to do a small amount of homework but I've never pushed it and if she's very tired or emotional then I see how she's going, and skip it if things are too bad. My son is in year 1, and he doesn't have very much homework (neither does my daughter to be honest), but after getting him settled at a desk he just tends to do it very quickly then run off and plays. I found that for my daughter, I was able to imbue a love of learning when she was in Kindy and year 1 by buying a whiteboard and getting her to do her work on it. Also, my clear excitement and my own love of learning (I was and still am studying mathematics) rubbed off. In fact, I was going through Trigonometry again at one stage and she was interested why there were circles and triangles on the whiteboard, so I explained what an angle is and that trigonometry is the relationship between angles and sides. I would say she was the only year 1 in her school who knew what trigonometry was - I think her teacher was rather surprised when she used the word, and even more surprised when she was able to explain what it actually was! :-)

sre_ops 11y ago
Enjoy having your children bring you to the interviews when they try to get a job at the gentle age of 24.
justinclift 11y ago
Next, teach her radians. :)
- chris_wot 11y ago
  Ha! First I'll need to explain circumference and pi
  - justinclift 11y ago
    She sounds like she'd be good with that. :)

_ph_ 11y ago

While not completely abolished, homework should be issued much more cautiously. Most of the reasons against homework listed in the article are rather signs of bad homework. Homework should mean that the child spends a reasonable (depending on age) time to try to apply the (hopefully) learned skills on her own and without supervision. Failure to do so should trigger some interaction with the teacher, not punishment. For that reason, parents should also mostly stay out of homework. While traditionally school time in Germany ended at 1pm, there are now models, where the children stay at school after lunch and working on their "homework" in special sessions where some teacher is present for questions and interaction, not taking any of the homework home.

Someone1234 11y ago

It is great to hear someone so prominent say this, and I hope it makes a difference. I will say, as someone who has worked in education, education as an area is incredibly cargo cult-filled. Even educational research, and educational theory is full of culty trends (that seemingly change entirely every few years) and aren't what I'd call scientifically rigorous. As this article itself says we've known since the 1980s that homework at that age was harmful and we've known since the 1990s that older kids need a later start, but has that changed anything? Not that I've seen, High School level kids still start at 7:30am here and homework is still given to elementary school-age kids. Education has remained largely unchanged since the 1950s or before (technology not withstanding), and we've likely spending more on educational research and training now as we ever have, and what are the results? How much has school really changed in our lifetime? If anything they've only doubled-down with classical education being popular again, homework for homework's sake, learning for the tests, heavily structured classes, and subjects which both kids and staff call useless. I just want to say I am not shitting on teachers. Teachers do a fantastic job under difficult conditions and near constant criticism. This is a structural problem, not a teacher problem. It is at the school district/state education/educational research level, it is also somewhat intertwined within teacher education itself (e.g. continuous learning, but learning this year's latest trendy teaching technique which will be forgotten and discarded in a year).

superuser2 11y ago
I think it has less to do with bureaucrats than parents. Any meaningful change to K12 pedagogy is met with vigorous opposition from parents because to so many people, the only right way to teach is the way they were taught. See the New Math of the 70s, the Common Core, etc. You cannot make a major change to K12, good or bad, and get away with it.
- Osiris 11y ago
  I see parents talking like this all the time. "Who can understand how they are teaching kids to add these days?", but when I look at it what they are teaching my kids, it fits with how I do it in my head vs. how I was taught to do it on paper. People are resistant to change even when they say they want change (politics is a great of example of wanting "change" but having a fit when things actually change).

Glyptodon 11y ago

The 2 hour limit thing sounds fine, but I'm somewhat convinced that bad assignments and poor materials have to play a large part in the overall result. At the very least I'm not convinced that reading a few chapters of an age appropriate book or the odd creative project (draw something, etc.) or short writing assignment can be bad (or take more than an hour). On the other hand, I'm sure writing all 25 of your vocabulary words 5 times each isn't particularly helpful. (This was the main homework assignment I remember getting as a 2nd grader. I hated it because it made my hand sore (possibly because I was always trying to do it as fast as possible) and was boring.)

seanp2k2 11y ago
If / when I have children, I'd make it a point to teach them how to program things like that instead of just doing it by hand. Programming is a much more useful skill than cursive in 2016, and I'm sure that that'll only be more true when the time comes.
- jacalata 11y ago
  There's some evidence that while producing cursive isnt useful, the process of learning and using it is useful: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/16/cognitive-benefits-handwriting-decline-typing https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/16/cognitive-be... If you're taking over your kids education, you probably want to add some elements that replace it instead of just ditching handwriting altogether.
crusso 11y ago
I've found over the years that my children's worst teachers were the ones who assigned the most homework. Invariably, they supplemented their poor focus on conveying concepts with lots and lots of homework. A ton of homework is a smell that I've learned to look into in order to see if I need to meet with the teacher and possibly talk to the school administration.
- stevesearer 11y ago
  I remember a math class from high school whose homework seemed like it took me way too long to complete. Looking back, the teacher was actually one of my best and the length of time I spent on that homework was more of a signal that I didn't excel in the course or subject matter. But then I had other teachers who assigned homework which was likely motivated by a need to have things in the gradebook that weren't tests

kbd 11y ago

I remember getting a ton of homework in kindergarden. I never did it, and I always felt guilty about not doing it. I expected something bad to happen at the end of the year, but nothing did. Lots of bad lessons for life were learned that year.

JshWright 11y ago

The article states: "Before going further, let’s dispel the myth that these research results are due to a handful of poorly constructed studies. In fact, it’s the opposite. Cooper compiled 120 studies in 1989 and another 60 studies in 2006." However, the 2006 meta-analysis explicitly says that all 60 studies had design flaws. To quote the conclusion: "We hope that this report has demonstrated the value of research synthesis for testing the plausibility of causal relationships even when less-than-optimal research designs and analyses are available in the literature."

tominous 11y ago

There are three key arguments in the article: homework saps intrinsic motivation to learn, harms relationships at home, and has an opportunity cost in sleep, rest and play. It all makes a lot of sense to me, but I have one thought. In many activities I find I need an initial period of tedious repetition before the fun part kicks in. Things like playing an instrument, learning a language, and some parts of mathematics. And nothing saps motivation at school more than being behind the class from the start and completely lost. So is there a role to play for homework in pushing through the hard part at the beginning?

mafribe 11y ago
is there a role to play for homework in pushing through the hard part Yep, you got it exactly right. A N Whitehead has said it better than I can, so let's quote him: "Many think we should cultivate the habit of thinking of what we are doing. The precise opposite is the case. Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them." Homework helps with repetition even for extrinsically motivated students, which leads to the ability to perform without thinking, which is the basis of mastery and enjoyment.
- learc83 11y ago
  Sure there is a place for repetitive reinforcement based learning, but kids already spend 7 hours a day at school. There's no reason we can't cut out an hour of instruction and replace it with guided homework time.
  - mafribe 11y ago
    Sure, but do schools do this? Moreover, some people cannot focus well in the presence of others (see also the complains about open-plan offices), and for them repetitive reinforcement just works better at home.
    - learc83 11y ago
      No schools in the US don't do this, but we are talking about ways to improve school. I realize that some people work better at home, but forcing everyone to spend 7 hours at school and then 1-2+ hours practicing at home isn't the best option. Many countries with very high performing schools have a much shorter school day than we do, and I think asking kids to devote 10+ hours a day to school (including bus time and homework), is a bit ridiculous.

skolos 11y ago

I have two elementary school kids. In my view the biggest benefit of the homework is that I can observe if my kids lagging behind in some topics and help them to catch up if necessary. Usually this happens because teachers did not do good job explaining those topics. So it looks like the homework in public schools is a stopgap for lousy teachers.

labster 11y ago
This is a stopgap that is only effective in cases where the parents are knowledgeable and interested in their children's education and have free time to assist. It would be better to do this from within the educational system, because everyone would be covered. Team teaching, anyone?

debacle 11y ago

Lets revisit the English curriculum and actually start teaching kids something about the art of writing rather than literary analysis. English homework (outside of grammar, writing, and spelling) has the lowest potential ROI out of all homework, yet it always seems to be the most time intensive.

gt565k 11y ago

"Homework has no place in a young child’s life. With no academic benefit, there are simply better uses for after-school hours." Sorry, but that's just plain wrong! It's not the amount of homework that's the problem, it's the quality. I've been waiting to weigh in on K-12 US education for quite some time, so excuse my long reply. I hope some find it informative. Here I go with my Eastern European perspective on homework in grades 1-6. My education in the US started in 7th grade, after completing grades 1-6 in Bulgaria. I studied German from grades 1-4, when enrolled in a music academy and played percussion instruments (drums and xylophone), and also learned the basics of playing the piano, and folklore dancing. I practiced playing percussion for at least 2 hours a day and did homework for another 2-3 hours a day in those grades. During the Summer after 4th grade, I was taking private lessons in Math, as I was applying to a specialized Math and Science school. In those private lessons, I learned about linear equations, mathematical series (geometric, etc), and how to derive their formulas, among other subjects that are typically taught in grades 7-10 in the US. After taking the placement exam, I got into the school, where I also had to pick German or English. I picked English and had about 10-12 actual hours of English classes a week. Every day we learned 15-25 English vocabulary words, and for homework, I had to write each word 20 times in a notebook, which was periodically graded by the teacher. This was on top of learning grammar and memorizing short stories (2-3 times a semester) that I'd have to recite for a grade. I also had extra curricular Math classes on Saturdays that discussed special math topics. On average, I'd spent anywhere between 2-4 hours a day on homework for all of my classes, sometimes a lot more. That was in 5th and 6th grade. Classes were taught in 2 different schedules. 7:30 - 2:30pm OR 11pm - 6pm. Which alternated every semester. Also, I had plenty of time to play around with kids in the neighborhood and enjoy my childhood. That stuff you see in those youtube videos of Russian kids climbing old abandoned soviet buildings and doing crazy parkour stunts? Yep, I did all of those too! Kids, especially in elementary school, should be taught the principles of hard work and time management and be exposed to as many different subjects and skills as possible. There isn't a better time for it, because the older you get, the less free time you have to do the things you want! The doom of american education is standardized scantron tests. Students should be tested on how well they know and apply concepts, instead of how well they can eliminate answers and guess the correct one. Unfortunately you'll never see a student in the US be graded on his ability to solve a math problem on the chalk board, or recite a poem, or history lesson in front of the class. That is what I had to do in grades 1-6. It teaches you to always be prepared, because the instructor can call on you at any time. I had anywhere between 3-7 actual grades (marks) in most of my classes. Some of them were impromptu examinations by being called on randomly to do a math problem on a chalk board, explain the significance of a particular king/ruler in history class, recite a poem in literature class, recite a short-text in a foreign language class, and the rest were tests and midterms. Compare that to the US, where you have 10 up to 20 graded assignments per class in K-12. I found homework assignments in 7-12 grade in the US to be a complete joke. Fill out blanks on a piece of paper by copying them from the textbook or complete a huge packet of boring mind numbing problems? What in the world? I'll assume that's because those are easy to grade, but in reality, it's much better to give fewer more complex assignments that require a lot more knowledge and skills to complete. Quality over quantity!

Gratsby 11y ago

My school district has a limit - 10 minutes per night per grade. Then they throw all the rules out the window in high school if you are in honors classes. I was skeptical moving into the district, but I'm actually kind of surprised at how little of a difference it makes. Same grades, same progress, less stressed kids.

nikhizzle 11y ago
Where do you live?
- Gratsby 11y ago
  Palo Alto

bobby_9x 11y ago

This will only hurt the inner city students. I know a few teachers in some really poor areas and many teachers have to fight against unearning at home. Homework helps with this. I also don't think a student can learn enough in the classroom. With ever growing class sizes, students just can't get all they need in terms of learning, without homework. I just have to shake my head at one more thing that will put our future generation behind the rest of the world.

gohrt 11y ago
Homework is good because it solves the problem of schools and home being bad?
- varjag 11y ago
  Homework is an imperfect real world solution to a real world problem. As opposed to no real world solution to a real world problem.

EGreg 11y ago

Yes! There is a place for homework: it should be group exercises done at SCHOOL. And lectures should be replaced with multimedia learning at HOME. Here is my proposal I am working on. If anyone reads this and wants to join me, email me: http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=158 http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=158

stevesearer 11y ago
It sounds like you're describing Flipping the Classroom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom
- EGreg 11y ago
  Plus a daily testing regime, incentive structure for kids, and feedback loop for lectures
  - charlieflowers 11y ago
    Start one in Atlanta, with a start time of 10 am and a reasonable tuition price, and I'll sign my kid up.
    - EGreg 11y ago
      Seriously? If you don't mind, email me (qbix.com/about) and I'm interested in speaking more about it.
ASpring 11y ago
This is a pretty well established paradigm. See [1] for a nice lit review. 1. http://www.studiesuccesho.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/flipped-classroom-artikel.pdf http://www.studiesuccesho.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/flip...
voyou 11y ago
Ah yes, the "flipped classroom." Or, as it's been called for 30 years or more "the classroom."

fredliu 11y ago

Interestingly enough that just yesterday I read that the famous "ego depletion" theory backed by tons of serious research might got debunked. And today, "the research is clear" that we should ban elementary homework. I just can't help but think how "clear" the research actually is....

abecedarius 11y ago
I'm skeptical too. But getting lots of homework unquestionably imposes a high cost on the children -- especially the younger ones. If you're forcing this cost on the most powerless people around, shouldn't we insist on clearly seeing the benefit? Also, from my experience as a student my prior for that benefit is pretty low. I went to what turned out to be relatively good schools for the U.S., and I still think that before college they were mostly a waste of time that actively turned people off learning. What I mean by skeptical, above, is that hearing of these studies only shifts that opinion a little.
- kazinator 11y ago
  I'm convinced that if I hadn't done all that mindless arithmetic homework in elementary school, today I wouldn't be able to calculate a tip. Some material just has to be practiced so that it is properly internalized. If all you do is absorb lessons without the underlying practice, the material will evaporate from your brain within a short time. Imagine if you had only seen division or multiplication being done on the blackboard by the teacher, and never practiced it. Today, you'd at best have a faint, dim recollection of having seen such a thing, and you'd be powerless without a calculator when confronted with some matter involving two digit numbers. We should also look at other things that impose a "high cost" on children: spending hours playing video games or noses constantly buried in mobile devices.
  - abecedarius 11y ago
    There was an HN comment thread about an experiment: some classes with no math lessons before, like, middle school or something. (Sorry I don't have the link.) The experimental group soon surpassed the controls once they did get into math, presumably because nobody tried to cram abstract procedures into their heads at too tender an age making them think of math as unpleasant arbitrary magic. This is about what I'd expect from both the idea of Piagetian stages and actual acquaintance with average people who jettisoned most of their school math as soon as they graduated. I agree that you learn by doing and that teaching can guide you to learn more efficiently and broadly, when it's done well. It can even benefit you when mediocre, though the vast majority of schoolwork didn't pay its freight.

bsder 11y ago

Reading one age appropriate book per week has a huge compounding effect. This is known and studied. That counts as homework and clearly refutes the primary statement: "There is no evidence that any amount of homework improves the academic performance of elementary students." As in many things, there is a balance somewhere. You need some level of rote homework to drive home basic concepts. Sorry--vocabulary, spelling, and times tables, for example, need spaced repetition and learning them sucks. But they suck whether you are 5 or 50. However, I find this statement laughable: "Can it be true that the hours of lost playtime, power struggles and tears are all for naught?" If doing homework is a power struggle in elementary school, you're a poor parent and are raising an entitled brat.

ASpring 11y ago
>Reading one age appropriate book per week has a huge compounding effect. This is known and studied. That counts as homework and clearly refutes the primary statement: "There is no evidence that any amount of homework improves the academic performance of elementary students." If it's forced reading then you're likely to sap intrinsic motivation from many of the students. I would imagine that the studies you're referencing don't disambiguate whether the child chooses to read the book or is assigned it. But this is speculation since you didn't actually cite anything.
alextgordon 11y ago
> However, I find this statement laughable: "Can it be true that the hours of lost playtime, power struggles and tears are all for naught?" If doing homework is a power struggle in elementary school, you're a poor parent and are raising an entitled brat. Yeah kids are so entitled these days. They'll have all the time in the world to have their childhood, when they get to 65.
JoshTriplett 11y ago
> However, I find this statement laughable: "Can it be true that the hours of lost playtime, power struggles and tears are all for naught?" If doing homework is a power struggle in elementary school, you're a poor parent and are raising an entitled brat. Depends greatly on the reason. "I don't want to do homework because I'd rather play video games" isn't generally going to fly (though having some free time is not something to discount entirely). "I don't want to do homework because I'd rather be reading" seems a lot more more reasonable. "I don't want to do homework because I already know all of this material and I'd learn nothing of value by doing it" is often completely reasonable, and a sign that either there's far too much homework or the class is far below the student's level. And, to put it bluntly, quite a lot of K-12 school is a power struggle, and an object lesson in how power can be abused when one side has no recourse. Learning that meta-lesson, recognizing it as a problem, and finding ways to solve it is a critical life skill. Long after K-12 school ends, adults regularly encounter systems that are partly or completely broken. Sometimes the correct solution is "screw this system", and other times the preferable solution is "right or not, do I really want to pay the cost of fighting this battle in this case, or should I choose to lose and deal with it despite being right?". But 13 years of the former always being the only option on the table will not help people learn and maintain that skill, which will not help people learn to find, fix, or build new systems that suck less, whether in education or other areas of life.

jdoliner 11y ago

I'm among the group that has trouble questioning the validity of homework so I tried to approach this article with an open mind. I have some questions regarding what's actually being measured and over what period. In particular how did they conclude that homework is harmful to students? They mention that homework becomes helpful around highschool age. To me it seems that could have as much to do with students having had several years of doing homework to learn how to work effectively alone as it does with the homework being different. Are we sure that by banning homework at an early age we wouldn't be depriving them of the opportunity to get good at working alone and reap benefits later? That's an effect you'd see if the study was conducted over 10 years but not if it was conducted over a single year.

ASpring 11y ago
It's a meta-analysis and thus consists of reviewing many prior publications that have widely varying methodologies.

reedlaw 11y ago

I agree 100% but what can be done if the schools don't agree? I live in a small city in China and the middle school starts at 7:15am, has a 1 hour lunch break at noon, and ends at 6:30pm. The kids are expected to finish a big pile of homework every night. Often that means finishing after midnight and getting up the next day at 6:00am. And this is just middle school! High school students live on campus and get 20 minutes for meals. They can't leave campus except for once a month to visit home. Basically the entire high school experience is one big cram session. And what does this achieve? Upon entering college, students experience freedom for the first time and many end up addicted to computer games at night and sleeping through class during the day. They may possess more academic information but in many ways are less equipped than those who took a more laid-back approach. Not all Chinese schools are like this and I'm sure they've improved things in the larger cities but it will take years for better ways to trickle down.

argonaut 11y ago
To be fair, I think the article is targeted more towards a western audience, where things are less extreme. Also, the trend in America has been towards more homework over time. Many American parents remember not having much homework in elementary school (I don't think this is true for families in China, where my impression is parents worked just as hard, if not harder, than their kids)
- reedlaw 11y ago
  I think the results apply to any culture. Excessive studying doesn't produce the intended results. The trend has also been towards increased homework but it's beginning to wane in more developed areas. I wish I knew how to accelerate the trend because it's continuing to do harm to a generation of kids.
  - argonaut 11y ago
    I was not commenting on the results. I was commenting on the person from China's concern that Chinese schools would never agree. This is true. American schools do not have to any degree whatsoever the same kind of homework-driven culture as most Chinese schools.

unstipulated 11y ago

Success likely correlates to life skills over IQ; to IQ over teaching; to teaching over homework. Homework is not needed, not because it provides no specific benefit (biased studies), but because it is the least significant poorly understood thing. She doesn't state it as such because her audience might not normally think statistically.

mikeash 11y ago

What baffles me is that we seem to have accepted that an adult's work should be about five days a week, eight hours a day. If you go beyond that, you hit diminishing returns and it may even be outright counterproductive. Yet we put our kids in school five days a week, eight hours a day, then we give them homework for nights and weekends!

themartorana 11y ago
This is a fantastic, amazing, wonderful, and never mentioned point. I am beat after 8 hours of mental output. I mean, I sit in a chair (or stand) at my desk most of the day, and take frequent breaks, and I'm still tired. Why would I expect more of a child?
accountatwork 11y ago
> we put our kids in school five days a week, eight hours a day Do kids spend 8 hours a day at school now? Back when I was in school, it was 9-3, including an hour for lunch, plus 5 minutes between classes. On top of that, we got a lot more vacation than I've gotten at any job. If I do the math on it, we spent a total of less than 1000 hours a year in school, less than half the time I spend at work in a year.
- Kluny 11y ago
  8:30 to 3, plus the hour on either side to get to and from school, plus the 2 hours of homework, plus extracurriculars 2-3 days a week. It varies a lot, but it usually makes for long days.
- gizmo686 11y ago
  My school (private) had nominal 8 hour days (8-4), but 4 to 4.5 hours of class. The remaining time was spread between two breaks (we only had 3 classes on a given day).
- thedufer 11y ago
  I think 6 hours/day is pretty normal these days, based on my younger sibling and teacher relatives. Definitely less than a "normal" 40 hour workday.

blisterpeanuts 11y ago

I agree. As the father of an 11-year-old 5th grader, I have absolutely no qualifications to say that, except for how I see the excessive homework they pile on ruining her childhood. She should be out of doors riding her bike, exploring the woods, discovering weird new bugs in the dirt, interacting with friends, reading books, building stuff, play-acting, playing music, dancing, and generally being the amazingly creative kid that she is, that most of us should have been, had that creative spark not been quantified and tested and pigeonholed out of us by years of dreary deadlines and shouting matches and power struggles. The poor kids. I hated homework, school in general actually, for most of my student life, and now I get to watch it crush the next generation. Very jealous of the families who home school.

abecedarius 11y ago
What might happen if you encouraged her to skip homework? Is there any mitigation for whatever harms you'd see? I'm just interested in ideas about this: I've been seeing schoolwork darken the life of my niece; her parents are trying to help, and all I can do is mention my opinion to my brother once or twice. I also think homeschooling would be better.
- blisterpeanuts 11y ago
  She'd start getting all these blue slips, then eventually letters and phone calls from the teacher and the principal. School is all-in or all-out. You either play by their rules, or go somewhere else. I think for grade 6+, we're going to look around a bit but the reality is, we're like most other families, too busy and stressed and not enough funds to really do the right thing which would be home school, or else alternative school. But, maybe we will. She's worth it!
  - abecedarius 11y ago
    Good luck! Yeah, I know there'd be a reaction from the school, but I wonder how much real trouble it'd bring. (Of course it's way easier for me to wonder than for you all to try it. I hope I'm not annoying you here.) When I was a kid I skipped a lot of homework -- for some classes in high school, basically all of it -- which got me in some trouble with my parents and got me kicked out of the honors English tracks twice (in middle school and then in high school), but FWIW I still got into a good college via test scores and (surprisingly) teacher recommendations. Unfortunately I can't claim this would generalize -- these were California schools in relatively affluent neighborhoods, and decades ago, and I'm not your daughter... and I'll shut up now. But I hope this might've been vaguely helpful to hear.

kazinator 11y ago

This article reads like homework is something new. Learning requires doing some exercises. There is no time for that in class, because the class is for lecturing. If homework is handed out at the start of the class, and you start doing it in class, then you aren't paying attention to the class. Homework isn't work to be done specifically at home, just work to be done outside of this class, before the next class. Let's call it school work. If the class is one hour long, three times a week, then that leaves 165 hours in the week in which work for that class can be scheduled. Homework should be reasonably brief, of course; it shouldn't have unnecessary repetition of trivial material. School should also be reasonably short. Classes should end at around noon. Class work should be done after lunch, in lab classes dedicated to that work. Then when school is out at, say, 3 p.m., the class work is done. Those who goofed around in class work labs will have to do some of it at home.

pjlegato 11y ago
Maybe a better idea than homework is to include mandatory "study halls" within the actual school day, where kids are expected to work quietly and independently on this followup work.

woopwoop 11y ago

The following is purely psychological armchair theorizing. I think that homework is part of a larger problem where the modern education system slams into children's brains that their time is worthless. Most elementary, middle, and high school homework is simply busywork. The very existence of the word busywork is telling. It's not just the wasted time that isn't valuable: it's the implicit message to a child that the best thing they can do is find something mind-numbing and pointless to do and just keep quiet. You see this in lots of "nice" activities that kids do, which are actually just time sinks that they are pressured or cajoled into. The most prominent example is playing instruments. Like half of kids learn to play an instrument at some point, but hardly any of them keep up with it when they are adults. Some people lament this as though it were some loss of innocence, but if playing an instrument was really a good use of time for most people, adults would do it, and kids would do it willingly. After 18 or more years of this sort of thing, I think it really sinks in that your time is basically worthless, and that it's not worth carefully considering how you spend it. Of course, the opposite is true. Your time is the most precious, and in fact the only, resource that you have. You should guard it jealously, and only spend it on worthwhile things.

stanmancan 11y ago
I disagree regarding the instruments. I think learning to play and instrument is about more than just playing it. Learning to play an instrument teaches you a lot of things that are useful in life; a big one being 'practice makes perfect'. My parents had me in piano lessons for about 6 years while I was growing up. I wasn't the best, but with enough practice I was able to learn whatever song it was that I was working on. That same work ethic has done very well for me professionally. As a self-taught developer I have always felt comfortable knowing with enough hard work I'll figure out whatever it is I'm working on. My daughter has started taking music lessons and in the last 6 months I've noticed a very similar thing happening. Ever since she started taking guitar lessons, she has started displaying more patience and confidence in herself than in other tasks like reading and school work than before. It's like it's starting to click with her that reading and math are like her music lessons; it takes practice, and she'll get it soon.
- 11y ago

rogerthis 11y ago

I'll post this without any real citation, except the word of a high-school, then college teacher and neuroscientist i have known. That teacher said: classes are not for real learning, but for getting the first contact, or solving doubts. Homework is where the magic happens. Small amount of (handwritten) homework, related to the same day class, and a good sleeping night. He also advocated for less class time, some school time for homework, and more time of extra activities not related to TV watching or internet procrastination. Also, reading, reading and more reading.

rogerthis 11y ago
And for the sake of justice with the said teacher, 'cause my memory has been betraying me these days, he said the homework discipline should only be enforced after the 5th or 6th grade. Before that, kids should play outside.

kevinwang 11y ago

As a former elementary student, I hated homework more than anyone, but how could you deny the value of repetitive practice for things like writing with a pencil and doing arithmetic? Although those things could be done in class instead. Is that the point?

randyrand 11y ago

How about lets have parents have more choice in their kids schooling? Multiple choices within a district? Vouchers? Something!

kickscondor 11y ago

Anyone out there fact-checking this? Maybe I missed the comment. Quoting Harris Cooper[1] (from the 2006 paper cited in the Salon article): > "With only rare exception, the relationship between the amount of homework students do and their achievement outcomes was found to be positive and statistically significant." Yeah so let's ban elementary homework, amirite?? > "Kids burn out," Cooper said. "The bottom line really is all kids should be doing homework, but the amount and type should vary according to their developmental level and home circumstances. Homework for young students should be short, lead to success without much struggle, occasionally involve parents and, when possible, use out-of-school activities that kids enjoy, such as their sports teams or high-interest reading." I'd need to track down the whole paper to know for sure, but his attitude here seems to advocate 10 minutes of homework (varied topic, positive, etc.) for elementary school kids, in addition to the 20 minutes or so of reading time they should have. This is what I see at the elementary school (public) where I teach. And I think it works well. Are we really railing against 10 minutes of homework for an elementary school kid? I need this time - to check in with my kids when they finish and talk about the answers together. [1] http://today.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html http://today.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html EDIT: Here's another synopsis of the same group of studies, but backed with some actual data, along with recommendations for how homework could be more effective. http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar07/vol64/num06/The-Case-For-and-Against-Homework.aspx http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar0...

guard-of-terra 11y ago
It's better to ditch 10 minutes of homework than force 3 hours on children. If we are chosing between two buckets, "homework for elementary" and "no homework for elementary", the second is much much safer, especially in the age of helicopter parents.
Symbiote 11y ago
Thank you! This discussion seems to be full of experts (everyone attended school, after all) making sweeping, baseless generalizations. I experienced what you describe, and it was never even called homework. It was learning spelling, times tables, or reading a chapter of a book. Probably from age 8-11, with no homework before age 8.

ClayFerguson 11y ago

All homework for kids is utterly stupid. Adults work 8hrs and come home and are free. Asking kids to continue working throughout the night is freaking stupid. Whoever thought this up was asinine. The only reason teachers assign homework is because they are brainwashed and believe it's just part of life. It doesn't have to be. All it does is make kids less and less interested in perusing learning.

ryanmarsh 11y ago

In seventh grade science that year was "life-science" I don't remember shit from that class. In fact the only thing I remember being taught before the 8th grade was how to math, read, write, and some stuff about the presidents and how a bill becomes law (which turned out to be a big fat lie). Why are we so crazy about cramming so much info into the minds of children? Short of reading, writing, and math what does a kid need to know that can't be taught (probably faster) starting a bit later in life? Shouldn't kids be playing with sticks and frogs and getting fresh air and sunshine? Not having the creativity squeezed out of them in buildings that resemble my office on the inside?

ygmelnikova 11y ago

The deeper issue here are bent social values and 'norms'. The argument for homework must be to get better grades, which theoretically leads to a better paying career. That way you can afford all the crap, vacations, overpriced real estate. You know, be successful and happy. But what about the gaping hole in the middle of your soul that keeps telling you this is not working. The 'is this all there is/was' question you try to suppress with narcotics or some other escape and pain relief. 21 Pilots sums it up well https://youtu.be/pXRviuL6vMY https://youtu.be/pXRviuL6vMY Just to add My daughter was home-schooled, and earns $90/hr building e-commerce and WP sites. She's 22.

hysan 11y ago

You know what is a good homework assignment at the elementary school level? Telling kids to do homework on whatever they want. Read a book (as mentioned in the article), draw a picture, go to the library to look something up, drills if they actually want to do that, write a journal entry, etc. This is what the elementary school does as part of the homework where I live (Japan, not US) and it works quite well. The elementary school ends up ranking quite high in academic scores too. So it isn't hurting the development of the children. I do wish they'd reduce the overall amount of homework, but I guess you can't argue with results. It's still far better than what I see happening back home in the States.

astannard 11y ago

I have a six year old, although this is not homework I do extra tuition with her on maths because she wants to. She bugs me to set her maths questions for her, because she enjoys them. I set them because she enjoys the challenge. I think as long as children enjoy it and don't see it as a choir then its ok. If they resent it though, then that's going damage their love for learning. They need to enjoy learning for learnings sake. Homework needs to be optional, my school also offer alternative pieces of work so the kids can pick one they will enjoy doing the most.

khattam 11y ago

Let's ban Salon articles in Hacker News.

href 11y ago

My elementary school in Switzerland actually did ban homework in the 90s as part of an experiment. I can't speak about my schoolmates, but personally I wasn't too happy as a child. As soon as I hit high school we were bombarded with homework and I always felt that I would have preferred to be prepared for that. At the same time we spent fewer and fewer hours in the classroom as school on Saturday was cut and more special off days were introduced. I think teachers working for these changes meant well but I'm not at all convinced it did any good.

k__ 11y ago

I never did my homework and I always ended up getting in major trouble with teachers who valued homework. This did cost me some good grades. I got a worse grade for not making my homework AND I got demotivated by it and did less for the class. On the other hand, I was never really good at school. Only average. And after I went to university I realized that doing this practical stuff at home helped me more to understand it, so I would probably got better grades if I did homework at school. Luckily I found out that good grades aren't necessary to study computer science. So I got my "dream" degree anyway.

themartorana 11y ago
Studying for a degree and doing grade school level busy work are two different things. I never did homework either, where I could avoid it. There was other stuff I wanted to do (as a child, mostly read for hours). I did well in school and enjoy a fulfilling adult life, and am probably much better for how I chose to spend my time. That said, I had very invested parents, I probably "studied" more than I knew because we went over stuff and regurgitated what we learned with our parents, who were both educators, even while I avoided doing hours of homework. In that way I was very lucky.

chae 11y ago

I think there's a fundamental flaw in this article, which is that it uses the blanket term of "homework" to probably mean simple revision of theory taught in class. Coming from a rural primary school where education was subpar, I remember my Mum would make me do maths exercises from a book, with varying levels of difficulty. She was say, "do this chapter", and then I would have to read the entire chapter and work out the answers to the questions just based on the reading - a fantastic exercise in problem solving at that young age. There were annual mathematics competitions which placed your ranking compared to other students in Australia, and - at the time I did that homework - I was in the top 1%. Fast forward a few years where we stopped doing maths exercises and just started relying on what the primary and then subsequent secondary school taught. My grades dropped, going from top 1% to 10% nationally and then lower still. The reason was that I wasn't exposed to enough content from the school itself. Simply put, it is fallacious to argue that less exposure to learning materials puts children in better stead. As far as the idea of disillusionment of children with the world goes: this is more a function of teaching things in an interesting and real-world-applicable way. Entertainment is the name of the game here, not less work. Kids are inspired by what they find fun.

ordbajsare 11y ago

An better idea is to ban compulsory government schooling aka state run forced indoctrination.

agentgt 11y ago

I don't think they should just throw out homework. I have to imagine there is a huge difference between homework done with a parent helping vs independent study. I bet homework where the parent is involved is successful (at least it was for me... and no not the parent doing the work) as it is basically extended school time and I wish the study looked into that more. Also what about an option to choose a particularly subject for homework. That is give the child a choice of which subject to learn more about after hours.

nkrisc 11y ago

I went to a Montessori school from kindergarten through 8th grade. Before 6th or 5th grade we never had "real" homework. around 6th grade they started introducing more structured and rigorous homework, and by 7th and 8th grade we had homework that very closely resembled the type of homework we'd be doing in high school (and as I discovered in high school, was more challenging sometimes). Throughout all that time we never had desks. The majority of our time was unstructured time with which to accomplish whatever tasks we'd been given for the day. We could sit where we pleased as long as we were behaving appropriately. At various times during the day one of the teachers (there were two) would take a small group of kids aside for a lesson. I loved nearly every day of school there and even now people who graduated 8th from there 20 years ago still come to alumni reunions there, it had that great of an effect on them. I did take the power of hindsight, but I realize now how good my elementary education was at that school. And how many kids don't get to have that same level of education. It wasn't cheap, but it's a shame all kids don't get to experience that. The most important thing I learned there was how to think critically and come to my own conclusions on matters. EDIT: Now that I'm reminiscing, my favorite memory is over the course of a few afternoons in 7th grade retreating to the comfy reading area and picking up and reading the classroom's copies of Catcher in the Rye and Lord of the Flies.

jasonkolb 11y ago
My kids go to a Montessori school as well. My wife and I were sold on the approach within the first five minutes we were in the classroom during the tour. These were not wild kids being controlled by adults, these were small adults being taught how to function in the world. They came up and shook my hand and introduced themselves, took out and put away their own work, asked for help, and were very polite when they needed a teacher's help. Once we started looking into how the materials were structured and built from basic concepts on up, we were hooked. It's incredibly expensive but also well worth the sacrifice.
- nkrisc 11y ago
  > these were small adults being taught how to function in the world That's so true. They taught us how to be functioning individuals who could take care of ourselves.

lintiness 11y ago

nobody's going to read this, but there's a better idea on the individual level (my political bias): why not instead of "banning" something we don't like, why don't we teach our own kids to ignore / rebel against the idiot policy? you accomplish more than the positive time / productivity / happiness return; you've also taught the child that authorities and policies are often very very wrong.

kazinator 11y ago

Thinking about this overnight, I realized that this is a historic first. For generations and generations, children have whined about homework. Of course; nearly everyone would rather play than work, and the goal of many working people is to put together enough moola in order to get out of the rat race permanently. People who win big lottery jackpots tend to say "oh, I will still keep going to work; nothing changes". Doesn't last. The historic first may be that now children are starting to have millennial parents who do the homework whining for them.

uday99 11y ago

I think the post doesn't make any sense. For example look at the kids that are from India, who have rigorous syllabus and also homeworks. They CAN definitely do better in University level entrance level exams and crack one of the toughest exams in world called IIT JEE(Indian Institute of Technology- Joint Entrance Exam) First of all I can't imagine average joe from American schools to crack it(not saying that few gifted/ self-home hardworkers can't get thru) at level of 12 grade. And if the post advocates to remove that minimalistic homework..then I can only wish to God save your children.

RUG3Y 11y ago

I have kids in elementary school, I can wholeheartedly stand behind banning homework for them. They're at school most of the day anyway, they're drained when they get home, and we literally have dinner and do homework, and then it's bedtime.

coryfklein 11y ago

The article uses Harris Cooper as a source for their claim. And yet Cooper himself reports: "there was generally consistent evidence for a positive influence of homework on achievement" [1] [1] Does Homework Improve Academic Achievement? A Synthesis of Research by Harris Cooper et al. http://rer.sagepub.com/content/76/1/1.abstract http://rer.sagepub.com/content/76/1/1.abstract

dj_doh 11y ago

I can get behind this idea. Elementary homework, more like childhood stress pill. Just replace them with more do-it-yourself type of projects.