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We Need a Better PC

• Tharkun 11y ago
  The Lenovo website is one of the worst websites I've ever visited. For instance, if you try to filter laptops by memory, and tick the 16GB box, you won't find any Thinkpads. Only Yoga crap. Even though the X250 can ship with 16GB... Bunch of wankers are so incompetent it's a miracle they sell any laptops at all.
• 131noobwithidea 11y ago
  Give me USB-D (the worldwide standart single connection source for energy and data), a now suitable cpu with workaday ram - and halve the ("full") energy consumtion every 5 years, and you'll find a periodically buyer in me. Better: double the perfomance every 5 years (shure) with halved energy consumption. Need a OS ? - shure, every 5 years but without the 'Kinderkrankheiten'
• DiNovi 11y ago
  While I agree with general sentiment, he only tried two laptops. Why not the Dell XPS?
• frik 11y ago
  I am stuck with Win 7 world. Microsoft turned against consumer by serving them subscription based products Office365 and Windows 10 that also spy on consumers - no thank you! They force others to over only Win10 ready notebooks, with locked down UEFI BIOS and crypto module - try to boot Linux, good luck.
• PaulHoule 11y ago
  Don't get a a laptop. The pc industry is doomed with phone envy. Desktop machines are one place you can really do better.
  • dcposch 11y ago
    I travel a lot, and I like to work out of cafes and libraries and stuff. Can't be this guy http://i.imgur.com/j4uWVIT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/j4uWVIT.jpg
  • Avshalom 11y ago
    I don't know, buying a prebuilt desktop is just as bad of an experience. Building one piece meal from Newegg shouldn't be as convenient as buying something from Dell, it's damn close some days though.
    • douche 11y ago
      Building a desktop from parts is easier than some Lego sets these days. I think the only possibly tricky part is making sure you apply the thermal paste and install the heat-sink correctly. Everything else you just screw in, snap in, and plug in.
      • Avshalom 11y ago
        The hardest part, at least the fiddliest part, is getting all the little plugs right for the front panel: power buttons, usb, audio, etc.
  • dantillberg 11y ago
    This sounds like a troll comment, and maybe it is. But I agree, and for me, switching a lot of my usage from a laptop to a desktop was a solution. After 5-6 years of adoring a series of macbooks, I finally got fed up with Apple slowly locking down OSX. And if you're not willing to run OSX, then even the macbooks lose a lot of their luster. If you run a desktop, though, then most everything pretty much works great (even with Linux). You can spec up to a giant monitor or multiple monitors, incredibly powerful graphics, CPUs with lots of cores (or even get two), and 64 or even 128GB RAM, or any combination of the above. Or you can build a compact, low-power system. And you can swap components in and out, buy upgrades, and sell/gift parts you don't need, etc. I still have the laptop, but I only use that whenever I have to move around (and I use syncthing to keep everything synced continuously between them to make smooth transitions between them).
    • caleblloyd 11y ago
      I was thinking the exact same thing. I recently got Intel NUC boxes for every developer at our office. Linux support out of the box. It's 4 inches square ans easy to take different locations provided you can hook up to screen. Everyone's got a laptop too, but they can now also VNC or SSH to their Linux machine if they need to work remote. Hell you can VNC into them from a chromebook.
  • rtpg 11y ago
    I can't bring my desktop to any environment, therefore it's a non-starter. I _do_ think it's interesting to think "maybe buying 1 (even 2) desktops is actually better for me than buying 1 laptop", but I cannot bring my desktop to the library. I feel like this comment is on the same level as "don't buy a phone, you can do better with a laptop", which is absurd on a similar level without extra context.
    • xerophyte12932 11y ago
      My personal solution is a desktop and a 7-inch tablet. Sure the tablet loses some of the power as compared to a laptop, but huge portability gain. And it fits my use case. I don't write code while on the move. I do that at my desk. For all other use cases like consumption of data or even blogging, the tablet works.
      • lmm 11y ago
        Blogging with an onscreen keyboard is painful, and carrying around tablet + bluetooth keyboard is more cumbersome than a 9" or 11" "ultrabook". The ability to run old binary-only windows/x86 programs comes in handy too. What do you do for a phone? What works for me is: 6"+ phone that does anything I'd use a 7" tablet for (smartwatch means I don't need to take it out my pocket as often), 11" ultrabook for doing things on the go, 18" "desktop replacement"/"gaming laptop"/"luggable" for home and the occasional longer trip or LAN party. (I do have a desktop/"home server" but these days it's pretty much an oversized NAS).
        • xerophyte12932 11y ago
          >Blogging with an onscreen keyboard is painful I used to think that. But then i got the hang of it and now I do most of my writings on my tablet > What do you do for a phone? I don't have the use case for an expensive phone or even a data plan. I have a low end smart phone ($70) that I use mostly for just texts and calls. Even my whatsapp is on my tablet (needs manual .apk as playstore won't let you do this). I am at my desk most of the day (office), so all Internet related things I do on desktop. After work hours I have my tablet at home so don't really need my phone for much else. Have a desktop at home as well.
  • eropple 11y ago
    Can I bring my desktop on a plane? To meetings at my client's offices? No? Isn't that an interesting bit of nuance that you so blithely elide.
    • PaulHoule 11y ago
      If you have $1000's to spend on airfare you can afford to have a good desktop machine and a good laptop.
      • voltagex_ 11y ago
        Not necessarily. My budget is pretty finely calibrated at the moment - my desktop is going to remain pretty broken for a while so that I can get a new laptop.
      • NamTaf 11y ago
        In which dystopia does it cost you $1000's to fly locally, as many would do? I can cross my goddamn continent for $600 return and that's over 4000km away. Going interstate costs $200 return on a good day.
        • TulliusCicero 11y ago
          Presumably you are flying more frequently than once per computer purchase.
          • NamTaf 11y ago
            Sure, but the marginal utility of a given flight is far higher than the marginal utility of a second computer. Moreover, I may be paying for my computer but my company may be paying for my flights.
      • eropple 11y ago
        A desktop does nothing more than marginally better for my work use cases; I have one that's literally strictly for video games, and I don't care in the least about making those portable. But I care about going to my client's office and being able to work. Why would a desktop be "better"? If a desktop was sufficiently "better", why would I buy a good laptop? If I have to buy a good laptop, what delta exists, for me, to incentivize buying a good desktop as well? This is of course not an answerable question for you, because you have no idea what I or the literally hundreds of millions of people on this planet who own laptops do with our computers--so why did you then act like your preferences are so universal? Past that: it costs me three hundred dollars, round-trip, to fly from Logan to Reagan. Where does "thousands" come into it? Why would somebody who occasionally fly for business necessarily have the cash to burn on redundancies? Why would having that money imply that one should?
• akhilcacharya 11y ago
  After I bought my MBPr 2014 I started looking around at similar machines. In my mind, the only competition is with the Surface Book, but even that's debatable given the screen size.
  • dcposch 11y ago
    The convertible tablet aspect seems like a gimmick, but other than that it looks v nice. The part where it will actually have a clean Windows installation with no crapware is pretty excellent.
    • alpb 11y ago
      I am kinda frustrated to see no mention of Surface Book in your article though. I really suggest trying out Surface Book hands on in a store near you.
  • tempestn 11y ago
    Agreed; the Surface Book seems to fit the bill perfectly. A bit more selection in terms of size would be good, but hopefully that will come.
• spo81rty 11y ago
  I really like my Razer laptop. They basically look like black MacBook Pros. Quality seems very high and I have enjoyed using it for several months. Quad core Cpu and 16 GB of RAM provides plenty of power as a dev box.
  • archimedespi 11y ago
    Yeah, I'd love to get the new Razer[0] that came out this year, but unfortunately they went the way of "thunderbolt3.0 all the things" which is... not going to work with Linux. At all :( [0] - http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth
    • user42734892 11y ago
      I'm posting from a Razer Blade Stealth QHD/256 right now on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The USB 3.1 ports function fine, the USB-C charger functions fine. Not attempted to attach a Thunderbolt over USB-C peripheral yet, but it would not be the end of the world if it wasn't functioning since everything but suspend and the camera behave fine. The real downer is Intel's appalling OpenGL support in their Skylake drivers. Games and certain other applications are pretty much hosed if they expect remotely modern shader support, otherwise it is quite the capable chip.
      • nhumrich 11y ago
        Ubuntu 16.04 isn't even in beta yet, how could you have the LTS version?
        • deleted 11y ago
          [deleted]
  • r-w 11y ago
    Except what the hell, where’s my desktop-grade GPU!? ;)
• jitl 11y ago
  Did you look at Dell's line of XPS ultrabooks? I don't own one myself, but the ultra narrow bezels and industrial design look quite nice.
  • voltagex_ 11y ago
    I looked at the 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, Skylake variant of the XPS 13. Amazing looking machine, fits my filter criteria of "has service manual available to mortals" except for one problem - Dell won't sell me one, and neither will Microsoft (Signature Edition). They only seem to be available in the US and even if I was willing to spend the nearly $4000AUD to import one they won't ship to a non-US address.
    • ank_the_elder 11y ago
      Several of the best Dell laptops are sold here in Australia with a considerable markup, even allowing for exchange rate. I tried to buy an XPS variant which was considered a 'workstation' for Australian Dell and so had an exorbitant markup which I'm not willing to pay. Hopefully things have improved now.
      • voltagex_ 11y ago
        If you find the right discount code or sales person (over the phone) you can get the price down. Many employers also have deals with Dell that give you 10-15 percent off. My issue is that the variant isn't available at all.
    • dnautics 11y ago
      You're dodging a bullet. (See my response to op)
      • voltagex_ 11y ago
        That's OK, I hate the Force trackpad on the newer Macbooks, too. (and it looks like using the Synaptics driver or Windows 10 1522+ helps with your issue)
• jolux 11y ago
  Honestly if you get a Mac you can install rEFInd on it and boot Linux just fine, or run Linux in a VM. The hardware also almost never breaks and especially if you have AppleCare they frequently replace it for free. Yes, it may be difficult to upgrade yourself. That's entirely true and if it's a deal breaker there's not much else around. You might do well to look at https://puri.sm https://puri.sm if you're a Linux user, they seem to make pretty good machines with free software down to the BIOS. There's also always http://minifree.org http://minifree.org but they don't really make modern machines.
  • whalesalad 11y ago
    Agreed. All of the points in this article that are against the PC makers are both valid and quite significant. The Apple ones are not practical problems. Sure you aren't encouraged to open it, but you can. I've replaced virtually every part on virtually every generation of Intel Mac just fine. Screens, memory, batteries, disk drives, etc... If you don't like the OS and the free software that's included, replace it. You weren't gonna stick with the OEM bloatware Windows install on the Thinkpad anyway. The author is correct, we need more competition, but for the time being a Mac is truly the best piece of kit you can get. It'll run any OS and doesn't ship with an ssl mitm.
    • dcposch 11y ago
      > If you don't like the OS and the free software that's included, replace it. You weren't gonna stick with the OEM bloatware Windows install on the Thinkpad anyway. Fair point. I've heard mixed reviews from people dual booting Linux on a retina MBP because Ubuntu has bad high DPI support. > The author is correct, we need more competition, but for the time being a Mac is truly the best piece of kit you can get. It'll run any OS and doesn't ship with an ssl mitm. Yeah, I think there's an untapped market for a well built standard laptop (not a tablet crossover, not a Chromebook) that's not a Mac!
  • ArchD 11y ago
    Don't you get annoying hardware incompatibility when running Linux on Apple hardware? The Arch Linux wiki on Macbook Pro, for example, doesn't suggest running Linux on it is simple.
• xlayn 11y ago
  Do you like the MacBook but don't like the OS? go ahead and change it, you can have triple boot. Tiny fonts and pop ups doesn't have anything to do with the machine you are going to buy (unless you also want the website). HP makes the elitebook, magnesium construction a la thinkpad. And last but not least I would like to give this entry the RAGE post award, nomination points for What I want is a computer with: -Decent build quality -Decent performance and battery life -A decent website. It doesn't have to be an icon of web design, like apple.com. It can be simple and utilitarian, like an Amazon page. It just has to be honest and up to date. It should contain pictures, text, and a Buy button. -A clean OS without crapware or malware factory installed Is that too much to ask? Make one and you can have my money! Apple, Lenovo, Microsoft and HP make systems like the one you want, you can install your choice of OS and buy it on Amazon or eBay if you want. Bonus points for calling apple website an icon of web design when it weights almost 100mb. Rage score 9/10.
  • voltagex_ 11y ago
    Add me to the rage brigade. I think the OP has missed the Microsoft "Signature" edition products. They're a clean Windows 10 image and you buy direct from Microsoft. I just wish they'd sell me the XPS 13 9350 (the highest spec'd one) in Australia. Edit: AFAICT a lot of the battery life on a MacBook comes from the way OS X works - friends who use Bootcamp tell me it significantly reduces their battery time.
    • wldcordeiro 11y ago
      That's lame they don't sell those there. I got a 9350 myself and loaded Ubuntu onto it and it's been fantastic. What do they limit you to? Just the basic XPS 13 models? Also, what if someone in the US bought one and had it shipped to Australia? Is that doable?
      • voltagex_ 11y ago
        I shouldn't complain too much, the 8GB / 256GB version is the highest they offer here. It's just that I'd like to run VMs on the thing and 16GB of RAM is needed. My other constraint is weight, for $REASONS - I don't really want something >1.5KG.
• leecarraher 11y ago
  i have a 2014 x1 carbon. solid build, decent battery under linux(5hrs average load). probably will get an x1 next round too. dont get booged down with specs though. newest is outdated in a year, and if you don't get a new laptop every year, arguing specs is pretty moot. drawbacks - soldered on ram + it's a premium not super modular. positive - its solid and nicely designed with a great keyboard (and this is from an otherwise chicklet style hater, but really nice travel)
  • neumino 11y ago
    Same here, the x1 carbon is linux friendly and has a great keyboard. I don't have a retina display, but I don't need that to write code.
• vardump 11y ago
  My dream laptop: 1) No malware/spyware tainted brand. 2) At least 32 GB ECC RAM, 16 GB is so 2010. ECC, because memory errors do happen and cause instability. 64 GB option wouldn't hurt either. 3) HiDPI (retina) display (IPS or equivalent) 4) Fast PCI-e attached SSD. 5) Ability to run two 4k monitors @60 Hz. 6) Stable USB3 ports (My 2015 RMBP keeps resetting USB3 ports, making it nearly impossible to run VMs on USB3 drives) 7) ~10h+ on battery.
  • voltagex_ 11y ago
    >2015 RMBP keeps resetting USB3 ports Do you know who OEMed those ports? I've had a horrible run of luck with crappy USB3 chipsets in desktops - with the same symptoms as you're having. Do you still get the resets in Windows 8.1/10?
    • vardump 11y ago
      > Do you know who OEMed those ports? Looks like Intel: PCI Device ID: 0x9cb1 PCI Revision ID: 0x0003 PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086 > Do you still get the resets in Windows 8.1/10? Just running latest OSX El Capitan.
      • voltagex_ 11y ago
        That's a little scary, I recognised that Vendor ID without looking it up (Intel). That's odd, Intel have been the ones that work the best in my experience (have also tried Renesas and Etron).
        • bestham 11y ago
          Well it's very connected with Intel: 8086 -> 80186 + 80286 -> 80386 -> 80486 you know. USB 3.0 problems could also be mechanical problems with the connector. It's a very high bandwidth signal, about the frequency of standard wifi.
  • sengork 11y ago
    ThinkPad P50 might be for you: http://www3.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p-series/P50/p/22TP2WPWP50#tab-tech_specs http://www3.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p-ser...
• narrator 11y ago
  I have a Toshiba p835-z370. It's a few years old but it still runs like a champ and all the hardware is supported on Ubuntu. Toshiba build quality is pretty good. Here's the teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMH0r76zdt0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMH0r76zdt0 . It's only upgradeable to 6gb though. Would love it if they had a 16gb upgradeable version.
  • voltagex_ 11y ago
    Aha! These seemed comparable with the Asus Zenbooks that came out at the same time. I've only seen one z370 in the wild though - what's the battery life like under Ubuntu?
• jsprogrammer 11y ago
  https://pcpartpicker.com/ https://pcpartpicker.com/
• r-w 11y ago
  That was a pretty quick dismissal of Lenovo, and a warped portrayal at that. As far as we can tell, Superfish was not intentionally installed by Lenovo, and any money it made didn’t go to them since it wasn’t their software. There’s nothing here to suggest that this is a sign of anything untrustworthy happening at Lenovo, any more than there is at any other major laptop seller. It seems like this was just a case of their software QA being not quite on par with their hardware QA. Also, all websites suck. Just sayin’. tl;dr: “Picky, picky! wags finger”
  • Avshalom 11y ago
    wait I wasn't paying much attention because I don't have a thinkpad but how would they have accidentally installed superfish?
  • vardump 11y ago
    If Lenovo has unintentional binaries slipping in the production image, the problems are way more serious than sloppy QA. How can I trust their peripheral chips and firmware? Or BIOS and SMM for that matter? Maybe some nasty things unintentionally slipped in their SMM code as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode There's no way I could verify all the firmware code contained in the laptop. Heck, not even one chip. Lenovo has had things not intended happening with their BIOS [1] as well. It's fixed now, but what else there might be lurking under covers? [1]: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo-used-windows-anti-theft-feature-to-install-persistent-crapware/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo...
• beatpanda 11y ago
  I have the first-generation X1 Carbon and a Dell Precision M3800, both running Ubuntu, and I am very satisfied with both.
• ripberge 11y ago
  I have a Lenovo X1 carbon and I re-installed Windows to remove all the Lenovo crapware after I bought it. Windows is easy to download and install now. It will save your license, but blow away everything else. It only takes about 30-45 minutes. But I do agree, this is totally ridiculous that you have to do this. I did buy an MS Surface and it was by far the best PC experience I ever had, however they don't make a keyboard cover with a touch-stick, that's the only reason I went back to a ThinkPad.
  • soared 11y ago
    Wasn't there ab article about Lenovo getting around this solution? I did the same thing with my y40. Came with an absurd amount of bullshit, but overall its a great laptop.
• dnautics 11y ago
  Avoid the dell developers edition xps13. There's no end key, the trackpad is unusable. Even worse, avoid getting the windows version and installing Linux on that: the trackpad is even less unusable (resets to lower corner intermittently on clicks), and in order to get the wi-fi working I had to recompile the kernel driver telling it that it was FOSS.
  • timothyb89 11y ago
    For the most part these issues are all fixed in recent kernel versions (> 4.2). The default trackpad driver (synaptics) is indeed buggy, but the newer libinput driver (available in the Ubuntu repos since 15.10) works perfectly. The WiFi card is a bit annoying if you want to build the driver yourself but it works out of the box on stock Ubuntu 15.10. Admittedly there were some issues early on, but now that issues have all been patched it's an excellent laptop. Fantastic build quality, great battery life, and the display is the best I've seen on a laptop.
    • dnautics 11y ago
      I've bumped kernels but it still doesn't work for me... I'll put some more effort into it and will see if it works.
  • voltagex_ 11y ago
    Is the Dev edition the same as the Skylake 9350?
• soared 11y ago
  Why is a decent website relevant at all? Would it make buying a laptop easier? Sure. But 90% of consumers are going to do almost all of their research off-site and enter the lenovo looking for specific products or categories. Not everyone follows the Apple-Disney ethos of design every consumer facing thing to be flawless. I haven't done the research but I bet you could see lenovo pages ranking higher for long-tail keywords (specific products) than than more general pages.
  • nottestuser 11y ago
    Here is the only way to shop Lenovo: http://psref.lenovo.com/ http://psref.lenovo.com/ Every SKU, every option, every detail, in a PDF.
    • viraptor 11y ago
      I'd say there's a better way if you're on a budget: http://outlet.lenovo.com/outlet_us/ http://outlet.lenovo.com/outlet_us/ http://dell.com/outlet/ http://dell.com/outlet/ http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals etc.
• btilly 11y ago
  I just had a https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ arrive and so far it seems good. See http://www.linux.org/threads/how-great-is-the-korora.5955/ http://www.linux.org/threads/how-great-is-the-korora.5955/ for a sample review.
• mingabunga 11y ago
  I've always found ASUS laptops well built, great screens and very reliable. Their Zen books are nice.
  • hbosch 11y ago
    I had to scroll all the way to the bottom to find you. I have always heard good things about the ASUS ZenBooks.
  • analog31 11y ago
    I'm quite happy with my Asus X200M. It's compact, lightweight, and was pretty cheap, though I think it's discontinued now. It's small enough to stuff into a bag, in my bike basket, and cheap enough that I don't worry too much about damaging it. I try to be platform-independent as much as possible. My "operating system" is Jupyter/Python. Knowing that I could switch to Ubuntu in a jiffy makes Windows seem much less annoying.
• orionblastar 11y ago
  I have an Acer laptop I won from a church basket raffle. It only has a 1.5 Ghz AMD Dual core CPU and 3Gigs of RAM and 250 Gig hard drive. So it runs slow at first and takes a time to load everything. It upgraded to Windows 10 Pro quite well. It is one of those cheaper laptops and it has an AMD GPU as well. I don't know how user serviceable it is, but it hasn't needed any work yet. I used to have Ubuntu on it, but my wife didn't like it so I had to put Windows back with it as we share the laptop. So I know it runs Ubuntu very well, and it runs Ubuntu faster than it does Windows. But PC quality has gone down since they moved things to China. Motherboards, you are lucky if they last three years now. My son had an ATX custom system with an ATX motherboard for the Intel 1150 socket made by ASUS, and it went out and was replaced with an Intel brand motherboard that we had to buy from eBay because the socket is so old they don't make new motherboards for it anymore. Motherboard lasted maybe two years before it blew out. We got a Datavac to clean up dust from it and would replace the CPU resin every six months or so.
• chemmail 11y ago
  Dell XPS 13/15
• nqzero 11y ago
  for me, aspect ratio is huge - if you want something better than 16:9 in a pure laptop (not a tablet or convertible) your options are really limited http://blog.nqzero.com/2016/01/1610-or-better-32-43-laptops-ie-real.html http://blog.nqzero.com/2016/01/1610-or-better-32-43-laptops-... i don't understand how there can be so little differentiation in this market
  • BobTheCoder 11y ago
    This! I guess the panels must be way cheaper or something. I would buy a 16:10 high quality expensive laptop in a second.
• virtualwhys 11y ago
  OP doesn't mention Dell Precision line? Recently released 5510[1] is looking absolutely awesome, will be picking one up when return to States in April to replace current Precision M4700. 2 X SSD + 32GB memory, high end CPU, decent GPU with 3840 X 2160 screen...will be sorted for next few years. If you NewEgg a couple of 480GB SSDs you're around $2,500 for a beastly machine that weighs under 4 lbs (M4700 is nice but hefty, nearly 7 lbs). [1] http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&model_id=precision-m5510-workstation&oc=xctop551015us&s=bsd&fb=1&vw=classic http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=0...
  • jeswin 11y ago
    The 5-hr battery life is a huge let down. For most developers, a faster CPU/GPU is just a marginal improvement. But being able to leave home without the charger and not having to look for power sockets is way more compelling.
    • bluejekyll 11y ago
      Which is why I use a Mac, w/OS X. Compared to everything else I've ever tried, it's the only one that I've never had to worry about battery life, literally hours and hours of coding. Also, with two small kids I need to close it and open it all the time, it's practically instant on, and I can pick right back up where I left off, and that's without ever plugging it in. I also switched back to Safari from Chrome b/c I found Chrome to be a horrendous battery drain. As much crap as Apple's gotten recently for their software, the attention to battery life is a huge blessing. My MBP is easily worth $ for the time and convenience.
    • antocv 11y ago
      Even if my laptop would have 24h batter life, I just do not want the mental hurdle of anyway always thinking "will it end now, when was the last time it charged, how much is left". Fuck that. Bring a cable where ever I go, never think of battery life. btw, Dell Precision M4800 is a beast, evil mean machine, its the best computer I ever had, macbook pros are trash in comparison. The keys are so soft, so finely grooved, so silent, so evenly spaced, the screen color reproduction is best ever, and its heavy, it doesnt feel like a toy to toss around, it sticks on the desk where I put it. It has 3 mouse buttons, on two places. Who can work on a computer without middle click to paste!? To not speak of the internals, i7, 32GB ram and so on. Highly recommend Dell Precision M4800.
• ishbits 11y ago
  I'd like Mac OS X but on a Lenovo T or X. That would just be perfect (assuming it ran as well as it does on a MacBook).
  • spronkey 11y ago
    Before Apple started making really amazing machines, I used to be a big fan of the T and X series ThinkPads. But Lenovo haven't impressed me in a long time. Lots of niggly stupid issues - like terrible audio quality, or poor LCDs, or poor build quality requiring stuff like shims under keyboards to stop them rattling (seriously?!). Crappy touchpads. Dumb experiments with the keyboard and touchpad/trackpoint buttons. Every time I think I should give one of the newer X's a proper go, I go and have a play with them and realise that they're still full of compromises.
• stepvhen 11y ago
  I've bought old thinkpad T-series on ebay for ~$300, installed arch, and moved on with my life. I keep most of my relevant data on git repos or a home server. If it dies, which usually happens after a good few years, I just get a new one. Not ideal, and certainly not for everybody, but a reasonable option if it fits your needs.
  • aback 11y ago
    That's actually a good idea if you don't need too much extra horsepower. You get a good keyboard, an acceptable display, and a lightweight machine for a don't-care-if-you-drop-it price.
  • PascLeRasc 11y ago
    Can you get IPS screens on those?
    • stepvhen 11y ago
      Probably not. You're usually looking at a 2-3-year old laptop already for $300. And for that money, you kind of get what you get.
• guelo 11y ago
  I wish I could buy laptops that are not built in China. The Chinese army has zero scruples with regards to hacking. The hack where they got all US federal employees' info was an act of war as far as I'm concerned. I just don't see any reason why they would not be putting in backdoors into all the computers they manufacture.
  • TurboHaskal 11y ago
    You're probably an US citizen. You have zero rights to complain about hacking and acts of war.
• viraptor 11y ago
  > They display low ratings for their own products on their own website. What. How is this a complaint? I'd love other companies to post both good and bad reviews without filtering. > Except that page is deceptive, because that's actually the old X1 Carbon Don't know about other locations, but here the X1 got a really nice discount once the 2016 model got announced. (also visible in the screenshot) I got it and I'm really happy about it. It has a high res screen (WQHD), so the same as the 2016 model, so that note in the post is also a mistake.
  • pmarreck 11y ago
    Nothing says "my company shoots for Mediocre" more than featuring your own 3/5 star products on your own landing page Call me crazy but this is why Apple is even a thing
    • viraptor 11y ago
      Sorry, I don't get this. Two companies sell basically the same thing. Both will give you all the usual marketing crap and slightly hidden actual specs. One will also give you actual opinions of people who aren't hired to take your money away. How is the other one better? I get the whole apple cult idea and buying a status symbol. But if anyone is going to compare the products, they'll just go to another site and see exactly the same ratings. Allowing ratings on your main page even allows you to respond to some specific issues. (wifi 5G disconnects often -> we published a bios update for that here/link)
      • pmarreck 11y ago
        I think you misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I don't have an issue with featuring third party reviews of your own product on your own page. But if you're going to show those, and they're only 3/5 star reviews, the assumed law of self-interestedness would seem to indicate that that was the best you could do... 3/5 stars. You're stating publicly that you can only satisfy your customers to 60%. Why are your standards so low, I would ask? Store.apple.com ALSO shows reviews, but they're almost all at least 4 stars. That's something to be proud of.
• jasonszhao 11y ago
  Why not Asus? (Never got one, have a MacBook.)
• wangchow 11y ago
  Honestly I swear by my Surface Pro 3. Maybe learn to hack some device drivers and get Ubuntu running (better) on a device like this. Some people already have it working: http://www.geek.com/microsoft/linux-users-rejoice-heres-ubuntu-on-the-surface-pro-3-1594864/ http://www.geek.com/microsoft/linux-users-rejoice-heres-ubun... In my opinion it's the most well-rounded device out there.
  • ekianjo 11y ago
    Surface are great but you are severely limited in screen size. It's great for portability, but if you need a little more screen surface it's not a good choice anymore.
• unsignedint 11y ago
  I'm finding $300 Acer laptop (or netbook, one of their Inspire line) loaded with Linux surprisingly usable. (It was preloaded with Linpus, but I've replaced with my own.) At 1.10 GHz Dual-Core, 4GB RAM, it's a bit slow at times, but as long as I'm not running intensive process on it, it's very usable on the go machine. (Mainly, TeX, translations, web stuff, browsing, and occasional spreadsheet, is what I do on the machine.) I do have a desktop machine for things that requires more power.
  • eximius 11y ago
    'surprisingly usable' is not what we should have to settle for
    • unsignedint 11y ago
      Well, I did add that I do have a desktop that I use for more demanding tasks. I guess it's the matter of doing the right thing on right machines. Though, I do understand there are plenty of people out there who requires a laptop with decent capabilities. A $300 machine that "surprisingly usable" can be a good compromise in some use cases.
• Iv 11y ago
  What do you think of the Novena? https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena If you want to make a good laptop, there are people doing that, in an open hardware and open source way.
  • shaurz 11y ago
    It's not really a laptop, really a portable all-in-one desktop with a battery, unless you're talking about that very expensive wood & cork thing. Nice that it's not Intel but you will take a speed hit for that.
• dpc_pw 11y ago
  I'm very happy with my Asus UX305F. I have Linux installed, everything except brightness keys works perfectly. Great build quality, mate screen, battery lasts very long. And it was cheaper than most of what people mention here. For CPU intense task, I just use my desktop.
  • hmartiniano 11y ago
    I also own one and can second all you say about it. The only problem is the lack of a backlit keyboard, which might be a show stopper for some people. Other than that it's a very good machine, at a very good price and installing Linux (at least ubuntu, from my experience) is absolutely painless.
• SippinLean 11y ago
  Is Samsung Series 9 still a thing? When I bought mine it was thinner than the MB Air at that point, similar rigid aluminum build quality.
• jseliger 11y ago
  I'm surprised not to see a link to the Librem laptops: https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-13 https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-13. They're an attempt to solve the problem being posited, AFAICT, though they ship with Linux, not Windows. I gave $10 to their initial Kickstarter but have never used one.
  • martey 11y ago
    Purism/Librem looks extremely similar to System76 - they are rebranded laptops from an Asian ODM running a variant of Linux. None of their marketing materials make reference to better build quality, battery life, or support, just "security, privacy, and freedom". I would love for them to hit all of these boxes, but I am unsure that their hardware will be as free/secure as they claim (see https://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/02/23/the-truth-about-purism-why-librem-is-not-the-same-as-libre/ https://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/02/23/the-truth-about-p...).
  • teekert 11y ago
    Looking forward to the next Linux Action Show which will have a review of the 15" Librem. Meanwhile Chris talks about the Librem on Linux Unplugged, haven't listened to that one yet. http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/ http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/
• superobserver 11y ago
  Why not by a Chromebook Pixel (2015)? Seriously.
  • martey 11y ago
    I think if Google decided to sell the Chromebook Pixel (2015) with Linux instead of ChromeOS, OP, I, and a horde of other developers would all buy it. In reality, it doesn't seem very easy to install Linux on the 2015 Pixel or any other Chromebook without either remembering to press Ctrl+D on each boot or by going through a significant set of hoops.
    • executesorder66 11y ago
      I've never used a Chromebook, but why can't you just wipe the harddrive with something like gparted and then install a Linux OS as you normally would?
      • neverminder 11y ago
        You can and many people (including myself) have successfully done that already - https://github.com/raphael/linux-samus https://github.com/raphael/linux-samus
        • Kurtz79 11y ago
          I think the question of the parent was if you could install Linux as you can with a normal PC (just by plugging an installation CD or USB drive), and the answer would be: "no you can't, unless you go through some hoops". It's like installing Mac OSX on a PC, or Linux on a Mac: you can, but not easily and not in a way that is supported by the manufacturer. You just have to scroll down in the link to see that there are several limitations that you wouldn't have with an OS that is supported natively.
          • neverminder 11y ago
            Well, he mentioned developers and I'd like to think for the majority of developers those few extra steps wouldn't present a major challenge. Also the hardware is 100% supported when using a linux kernel optimized for pixel - https://github.com/raphael/linux-samus https://github.com/raphael/linux-samus.
• pmarreck 11y ago
  Well, now you know why I use Macs. They are closed (unfortunately) but they are not full of bullshit, at least.
• knights123 11y ago
  It seems like you should really just buy a MacBook Pro. Sure the software isn't perfect, but it's an order of magnitude closer to perfect than Windows has been lately. You buy it, boot it up, and it works wonderfully. Of course the one day out of the year that it doesn't you go rage comment on how it sucks and it scares Windows users away from Mac, but the rest of the time you'd never consider going back to a typical PC.
  • ekianjo 11y ago
    For developers OSX will almost always be worse than a Linux distro, if only because of package management.
    • bluejekyll 11y ago
      Homebrew is pretty good.
    • jordanpg 11y ago
      Maybe, but only marginally so. In an age of cheap virtual environments of many flavors, this objection seems minor to me.
    • jolux 11y ago
      This is certainly not true. You can basically get any package with Homebrew that you can on Linux, (assuming it's on GitHub, you can get all of them) in fact there's even a port of it to Linux for people that love it on Mac.
      • ekianjo 11y ago
        Homebrew is certainly not as good as a regular package manager you get in Linux. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise.
        • jolux 11y ago
          How is it not as good? I'm genuinely curious because I've used apt on debian derivatives and rpm on red hat and I prefer brew to both of them. My favorite is actually Nix/Guix but I haven't bothered to set it up on my daily driver.
• theyCallMeSwift 11y ago
  Check out the Dell Developer Edition XPS. It comes with Ubuntu on it and has 100% full driver support out of the box. It's a great machine, we use them for work. Screen is great too and it looks really beautiful. https://sputnik.github.io/ https://sputnik.github.io/
  • nl 11y ago
    Is there any chance they'll update the version of Ubuntu? 12.04 is.. old.
    • bacongobbler 11y ago
      12.04 is still under LTS support by Ubuntu for another 4 years (LTS releases are supported for 7 years), so even if it's "old" it's also receiving active support. That being said, there's nothing stopping you from upgrading to 14.04 yourself.
      • lorenzhs 11y ago
        small correction, Ubuntu supports LTS releases for five years. Support for 12.04 ends in 14 months, in April 2017: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
        • bacongobbler 11y ago
          Thanks! I swore it was 7, but you're completely right.
    • smacktoward 11y ago
      The current models ship with 14.04: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
      • akkartik 11y ago
        Does this link work for anyone else?
• will_hughes 11y ago
  I've got an aging Asus Zenbook UX31A ultrabook which is amazingly thin and light, and still pretty decently fast. There was also very little crapware on it (was originally a Win7 machine with Win8 and then Win10 free upgrades). My one complaint is that the (small, light) power bricks are apparently made of unobtainium. They're near impossible to find, and the ones you can are extraordinarily expensive. Given my hate for proprietary power adapters - I'm holding out for a USB-C powered replacement. Asus doesn't appear to be offering anything, but Razer's Blade Stealth[1] looks like it could be a great option. [1] http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-blade-stealth
  • lighttower 11y ago
    I've been following the USB-C power delivery for some time. HP has one, but they disabled the ability to charge it from another PCs USB port because they can't trust other manufacturers didn't mess up the standard. Google Pixel, obviously perfect compliance with the spec. I am currently on thinkpad X230 with Debian Linux and W8. haven't booted into W8 for more than a year now. I wish the X260 had USB-C
  • franciscop 11y ago
    Same thing here, I just got one off ebay that we'll see if it kills my laptop. My complains about the laptop compared to macbook air: - Battery life: with Ubuntu I'm getting ~2.5h, which really sucks. I'm still in Ivy Bridge though, I've read that newer ones double the life. Still ridiculously small - The SSD is also proprietary (but I've read the ones from 2 years to now are standard). Same as Macbook However, it also has some good advantages: - Normal keyboard - 1080p screen - $900, which was around 700€ at the time I bought it
• Ifhax 11y ago
  You should get a dell latitude--woot periodically has excellent deals on "last-year's models", brand-new with 3 years warranty. They are reliable, modifiable, and get excellent battery life. They come pre-installed with Windows Professional, with minimal bloatware--but forget about it. Scrub off the Windoze crap, install Linux, and you will have an awesome little machine.
  • RealityVoid 11y ago
    Dell Latitude for the win. I have a E6410 and I am very happy with it. Long battery life, rugged, good build. A little heavy, but that never bothered me. And I get all kinds of curious looks since it looks so different. :)
  • UncleSlacky 11y ago
    Yep, just picked up an e6220 for €200 (with a new 6 cell battery) - runs for ~7.5 hours with MX-15 (Debian without systemd) and TLP installed. Military-grade ruggedness and a nice keyboard, too.
• nerdy 11y ago
  I went through the same thought process in December, never owned an Apple computer but needed a new laptop. Despite trying to fend off the idea of getting a Macbook (due to some combination of price/not wanting to succumb to herd mentality/proprietary nature of Apple) I caved. It felt silly to spend a lot of time researching and configuring a custom laptop. I've never purchased a pre-built desktop but customizing a laptop seemed too poor a risk/reward proposition for my liking. Even with a great deal of effort it would be difficult to create something comparable to what I could simply purchase. Apple's hardware is easy to appreciate down to small details. You can open the lid without holding the other half of the laptop (my previous laptop would lift up otherwise) and the screen isn't too loose either (doesn't bounce when you type hard). The speakers sound orders better than any of my previous laptops. Battery life is great. Retina is beautiful & responsive (easy to read text, even while scrolling). The trackpad is unbelievable for a variety of reasons (click anywhere, accuracy to the very edge of the pad, multitouch/gestures). I hadn't previously seen any trackpad worth using let alone nearly as good as a standard mouse, but haven't ever needed to connect a mouse to this one. It's just a great overall experience. There have been a couple software glitches that required a restart to fix, but other than that and the temps (~90°C) it reaches under load it has been a pleasure (@ 2 months of heavy use). Figuring out OSX took a week or two. I don't envy anyone who tries to save money while achieving a similar experience.
  • spronkey 11y ago
    So many little things that Apple just do better. I'd add some things to your list as well - the keyboards are nice and snappy, the machines are silent for general tasks, and the fans are generally quiet unless you're going crazy, with no stupid things like electrical noise / coil whine. Even under heavy load you can sit the thing on your legs and it won't burn you. The machines are very sturdy and don't bend, so they remain level (unlike even the 'sturdy' Thinkpads). The rubber feet are svelte and not blocky and intrusive. There are no stupid panels to catch on clothing, or vents on the underside of the machine to get blocked. Then there's stuff like MagSafe. And Thunderbolt (sure, USB 3.1 with Type C will do this stuff soon, but TBolt has done it for years already).
    • 11y ago
• imsofuture 11y ago
  Lenovo doesn't have a great website, but their ThinkPads are nice.
• solipsism 11y ago
  Why isn't there a Linux distribution that's specifically for installing on Macbooks? Given how few Macbook models there are, you could include exactly (and only) the correct drivers. Optimize everything to work perfectly, including things that often require tweaking to get working correctly (WiFi, screen brightness, power settings, etc). If I knew it would not be an adventure installing Linux on my MBP, I'd pay good money for such a distro!
• dkarapetyan 11y ago
  Dell sputnik. It's great.
  • mixmastamyk 11y ago
    2016 Model has not yet shown, has it?
• sergiotapia 11y ago
  True, there should something to rival Apple in the laptop arena. Unfortunately there isn't. Apple just makes hardware that's so sexy and intuitive to use. Example, Apple TV. I never used one before but I demo'd one at Best Buy the other day and in 10 seconds I knew how to operate it. Apple does this best, their earnings prove that. Just buy a Macbook Air, sturdy as hell, long battery life, and great Unix-enough-y OS.
  • wahsd 11y ago
    Hell, even now the possibly best laptop, the Dell XPS with that sexy edgeless screen, still has a shitty ass touchpad compared to even a 7 year old MBP. And let's not get started on the fact that the best quality control of PCs is so shit that you're almost guaranteed to have regrets. There is simply nothing that even comes close to Apple's build quality. You can use a 5 yo MBP and it still run just as good as a new PC laptop for all the 80% of task you would need it for. It's really pretty damn amazing.
  • dh997 11y ago
    It's still at the mercy of Apple, Intel and all the other opaque firmware vendors and microcode updates. Plus, it's not nearly UNIX enough, the damn linker doesnt do linker scripts so good luck developing non-xnu kernels without compiling under something else. And the sources aren't always released in a timely manner. Why is Apple still not open sourcing more of the OS? In the future, I'd like to be able to choose a design of laptop or tablet online, modify it, choose an open cpu core and so on and create an entire, beautiful computer at home. Not everyone will want to do that, but I think enough people will realize open source hw is the future especially in terms of supply-chain security and reducing or adding features. (More broadly: How cool would it be to have company-specific devices, designed and built just for them?)
• habosa 11y ago
  Not disagreeing with the premise, but just want to plug a machine I am very happy with. I was a lifetime mac owner (since OS 9) and my 2010 Macbook Pro finally broke down this year. It made it that long because I doubled the RAM, replaced the battery, and replaced the HDD with a hybrid drive. Finally the battery puffed up and exploded. I brought it to the Apple Store and they were beyond useless. The new MBPs are not modifiable in any way, and Apple's customer service is not what it used to be. So I decided to get a non-Mac for the first time in my life. I ended up with an Asus Zenbook UX305LA. It's a 13" 1080p screen, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Core i5 processor. Cost me $749 and I dual-boot WIndows 10 and Ubuntu (spending 95% of my time in Ubuntu). It costs about 50% what a similar specced Macbook would cost and is similar size/weight to the Macbook air. Build quality is fantastic (open with one hand, good keyboard, glass trackpad, etc). The battery life is not quite as good as a 13" MBA but better than a Macbook Pro. Overall I am extremely happy with it. Considering that my last MBP cost me $2200 up front plus ~$300 in repairs over time and lasted me ~4.5 years. That's about $500 a year. This machine cost $750. If it lasts over a year and a half, the experiment is a success. So far it's been nothing but great.
  • ekianjo 11y ago
    For the Asus Zenbook UX305LA, how flexible is it ? Can you open and change the battery by yourself, for example ? You mentioned the battery life is not great, can you share some numbers on Ubuntu ? How much time do you get on a full charge?
    • habosa 11y ago
      It's hard to say since I mostly use it for heavy-drain stuff. Streaming movies on Netflix, building apps in Android Studio, etc. Always have Chrome running with a ton of tabs. I'd say 6h of use in Ubuntu. The reviews I read say that the battery is better using it with Windows 10 (closer to 10h) but I just can't get my work done in Windows. Overall the battery is not disappointing. Not sure if I can change the battery by myself but for $750 I don't intend to invest much in repairs. I'll just ride it until it dies.
      • 11y ago
• vatotemking 11y ago
  How about MS Surface Book? Fits all the criteria that OP is looking for.
  • dit0a 11y ago
    I had a Surface Book but sent it back as it is plagued with problems still. Just have a quick Google for issues and you will find some real show-stoppers, such a shame as it is a beautiful machine.
• jordanpg 11y ago
  Relevant: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-PC-equivalent-of-a-MacBook-Pro https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-PC-equivalent-of-a-MacBook...
• jmspring 11y ago
  Post didn't address - buy apple hardware, run something other than OS X on it. Seems simple. Sure you are locked to apple hardware issues/resolutions, but Apple today is what the Thinkpad was for years (pre-Lenovo), hardware mostly just works. Insert arguments of customization, configurability, etc... Most people don't care. Lenovo doesn't deliver as well as IBM did on the Thinkpad line. What's the alternative besides Apple?
  • atomicfiredoll 11y ago
    > Apple has great design, but they sell things that are locked down, both physically and in software. You're not supposed to open them, you're not supposed to replace parts, and if they break you're supposed to take them to your nearest "Genius Bar". Not my style. It was addressed in the first full paragraph. He's one of the ones that cares.
  • SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    Personally, I use far too much mainstream software to be able to run Linux as my only OS, and I hate dual-booting. Sometimes I'll run Linux in a VM for convenience, but Linux is so broken with respect to so much hardware, I'm not interested in running it as the main OS. And running Apple's OS as the top level OS would drive me insane. So unless you're suggesting I try to run Windows 10 on Apple hardware, I agree with the article that the world needs a better hardware options. Until then I'll stick with my Toshiba. I'm pretty happy with it, all told. I don't see it as "better" in an engineering sense than Apple, but I get an i7 with 16Gb of RAM and a 1Tb SSD for about 1/2 the cost of the equivalent Apple hardware. And the control key is in the right place (the bottom left corner of the keyboard) ergonomically. That alone kills all Apple hardware for me.
    • IanCal 11y ago
      > And the control key is in the right place (the bottom left corner of the keyboard) ergonomically. That alone kills all Apple hardware for me. Personally I prefer using the caps-lock key as control, which can be set in the system preferences on a mac.
• rmm 11y ago
  Microsoft Surface Book. Easily the best device i have used in a very long time. Expensive (especially the i7 dGPU option) but i am amazed at how good this machine is. Huge battery life, powerful when it needs to be. Connect to a dock and you have a powerful desktop. Currently use it when im working in the office doing design work (plugged into a couple of Dell U2715H) then when i am out on mine sites use it as a portable machine in the field. The tablet mode and pen is just a cherry on top. Writing notes in the field, marking up drawings etc. ridiculously easy. i love it.
  • KirinDave 11y ago
    I concur. It's excellent hardware with excellent features and excellent battery life.
  • chaostheory 11y ago
    Agree. I just don't understand why MS has to call it a Surface. It's confusing since there are so many different MS devices that are called Surface.
    • vatotemking 11y ago
      You forgot the "Book" part. I guess its for branding.
      • chaostheory 11y ago
        You can add whatever you want to the end of its name; it's still confusing. This is probably one reason why the blog's author isn't aware of it.
        • pedalpete 11y ago
          Really? Any more confusing than all the Mac's being called Mac? People get the difference between the Mac, Macbook, Macbook Air, Macbook Pro. Why is Surface, Surface Pro, Surfacebook any different?
• matthewwiese 11y ago
  I'm quite happy with my 11" Macbook from 2012, she's quite the lil devil still. I stay on Yosemite and my machine is strong enough for me. If the author requires power, he/she could build a decent Xeon desktop and keep it at home, then just remote into it for intensive development. I keep a backup Core 2 Duo at my appt for work and play and it's still packing enough of a punch to do most of my work (only bottleneck is latency). To be honest, sometimes I even think my MBA is unnecessary and contemplate a cheap Asus Eee PC netbook because I live in the command line (and consequently don't need to load up heavy IDEs). However, I understand if that approach is too much work for most people who just want a simple solution without all the fuss, but where's the fun in that?
• euske 11y ago
  There are many independent laptop PC manufacturers in Japan. Panasonic Let's Note (cf. http://panasonic.jp/pc/ http://panasonic.jp/pc/ ) is known to have excellent battery life while being decent. Laptops from Mouse Computer (cf. http://www.mouse-jp.co.jp/ http://www.mouse-jp.co.jp/ ) have almost no pre-installed crap. Unfortunately, many of them don't sell outside the country. They're probably too small/thin to Western people. People tend to think a 17-inch laptop "giant" here.
  • SamReidHughes 11y ago
    Mouse's NB900 model is just a rebranded Clevo P750DM. The other models look pretty Clevo-ey too.
  • Aoyagi 11y ago
    Panasonic makes such great laptops. Too bad it's hard to get them outside of Japan.
• PythonForGirls 11y ago
  I'm using a Microsoft Surface Book. Works great.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• partiallypro 11y ago
  The article ignores the Surface Book (thought it does mention the Surface itself), Razer Blade and Dell XPS lines which are all pretty renowned for their quality. OEMs make some crappy PCs, no doubt...but it has gotten a lot better in the past 2 years. HP's Spectre is also a really nice device.
• joshAg 11y ago
  For those who don't know much about non-Apple PCs: The only laptops worth considering are the enterprise lines from dell hp, and lenovo. They are night and day differences from the consumer products, because they are usually entirely separate divisions. Within this, certain lines are better than others. For example, with lenovo I would only really consider a t-series, w-series, or x-series. The p-series looks promising, but that just came out, so maybe don't rush into that if you want to reduce risk. If the laptop doesn't have the RAM or harddrive soldered on, it's probably cheaper to buy from newegg and install an upgrade yourself than it is to upgrade through the product configurator. This does not void the warranty. The support pages from the website have explicit instruction manuals for doing this yourself as well as full disassembly instructions. The enterprise laptops have support pages with crapware free drivers. If you don't feel like surgically removing crapware from a new installation, just nuke it from space and install the OS fresh. Heck, most time you don't even need to install those drivers, because the base windows drivers are fine for most things (there's probably a performance bump to using the drivers, and some things, like the fingerprint reader, will need a driver), so you could just skip the driver install. Since these are enterprise laptops, you can still get 7 and 8 preinstalled (thank god for corporate compliance policies, am i right?! ;). MS call it "downgrade rights". Much like Apple, the best MS OS is the one released in 2009 (windows 7), so splurge for the "downgrade" to it if it's offered for the laptop you want. If you care inordinately about crapware and don't want to spend time nuking a fresh laptop, then buy a laptop (again only enterprise laptops from lenovo, hp, and dell) from microsoft directly, since those don't come with spyware: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?SiteID=msusa&Locale=en_US&Action=ContentTheme&pbPage=MicrosoftSignature http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?SiteID=msusa&Locale=en_U... You can also get warranties that last much longer than 2 years (some go up to 5), cover accidental damage, or cover the battery, but the specific policies offered depend on which company you go with. I have taken advantage of the lenovo accidental damage warranty a few times, and it was great. The default warranty requires you to ship the laptop off (lenovo overnights me a box with a prepaid overnight shipping label inside it so all I have to do is pack my laptop and drop it at the UPS store) and then they return it within a week, but you can also get an onsite repair warranty where someone will come to you to fix the laptop. Trust me, it's worth dealing with a website that isn't as shiny as apple's website.
  • 11y ago
• nchudleigh 11y ago
  It would be really cool if someone could do a clean developer book. Software: Would love something that comes with a Debian distro installed. Something minimal and clean. Body: Brushed metal exterior, hard rubber for hand rests- no sharp edges either (my wrists hate MBP's edges). Nice big touchpad. Elegant branding (love the lightbar on the chromebook pixels) but perhaps even more subtle (the new macbooks do a good job of this- eliminating the obnoxious glowing apple). Thin would be good. Hardware: 500GB SSD would be more than enough. Don't need GFX card. 8gb ram is more than enough. Good CPU please. Fan-less would be amazing. USB-C would be interesting, at least need a couple of those. And then a pair of USB-3 ports, and a headphone/mic jack. Maybe an HDMI. It would be good if the internals were simple enough to swap out everything with a small philips head. MOST IMPORTANT THING: I can buy replacement parts on your site for everything (screen, keyboard, shell, all of the hardware, touchpad, etc.) Price: I would pay anywhere from 1-2k US for this computer. Honestly just to support some healthy competition in the space- I would even go to 2.5k
• hguant 11y ago
  I recommend System76. Good laptops, clear website, and you know exactly what you're getting with the OS. https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops
  • underwater 11y ago
    He spent multiple paragraphs explaining how he has a System76 laptop.
  • akurilin 11y ago
    Their desktops are great, we use them for all of our dev boxes. Their laptops are basically branded Clevos, they're plasticky and feel like they were duct taped together. This is pretty typical of most of the "Linux Laptop" vendors.
    • captn3m0 11y ago
      As someone who owns and works on the exact same machine mentioned in the article (Galago Ultra Pro), I agree. It's build quality isn't that great and the non-computing hardware is sub-par (battery, fans, bezel, touchpad...). I just wish there was a real alternative to the 13" Air.
      • bigpeopleareold 11y ago
        I will not buy System76 laptops again because of the build quality. I had one, and an minor accident with it was a disaster. The computer wouldn't start after. I have a MacBook Pro for work and a Dell Inspiron with Ubuntu (which I bought on the day the System76 failed) on it. Generally, I like the latter.
• awongh 11y ago
  I had a thinkpad running ubuntu for a couple of years, around 2010-2013, but I was forced to switch to a mbp for one simple reason: About 1/10 of the time when I would be at a coffee shop or something and would try to connect to the wi-fi router, ubuntu simply wouldn't be able to connect. This thinkpad had one of the officially supported wifi chips in it, and it still didn't work. Lots of forum posts told me to downgrade driver versions or some such thing, I wasted a bunch of time trying many different solutions and nothing ever fixed it. I'm a web dev, and without internet I can't get anything done- I had to eventually get rid of it. Too bad, because the build quality was nice and it's a much better deal than a mbp, but unreliable internet is a deal-breaker. (If there had been some way for me to pay someone with driver knowledge to diagnose and patch the driver problem I would have done that!)
  • unethical_ban 11y ago
    Or buy another laptop. Could have been a hardware issue. Or install another distro.
    • awongh 11y ago
      I thought that the hardware drivers were independent of the distro? or at least debian? I lazily assumed hardware support on other distros would be crappier. I think the big issue here is that if a piece of hardware is listed as officially supported and it still doesn't work after you try to fix it with whatever hacks are suggested, it's not a workable situation.
      • slgeorge 11y ago
        You're on OS X so probably don't care but ... a. Hardware drivers are not independent of distro Technically most drivers will land-up in the main-line kernel at some point. But, for testing whether a "whole" laptop works means making sure all the drivers are working at the right version - it's fiddly. Consequently, what you really care about is whether your distribution supports that hardware version. b. Getting support for a Linux laptop In many ways the fact that users had to load Linux themselves in the 90's has been the biggest problem for users now. If you want a "Linux" laptop you should buy one with Linux preloaded. That way you'll get one with a known working configuration on the hardware and software. If something doesn't work there's a venue for you to get support - the person who sold it to you. Otherwise, if you do have problems you're stuck doing whatever "the internet" tells you to do - half of which will probably be wrong, or it's just happenstance that it worked for them. That's why buying from a Zareason, System76 or Dell (XPS 13) is important c. Lenovo certifies but doesn't provide support for Linux Lenovo does a type of certification for Ubuntu that means it "works for them". But, AFAIK there's no avenue to get support from them if the hardware doesn't work. Generally, it does work (writing this on one now), but you're stuck if you have problems.
• joesmo 11y ago
  I'd say upgradability should be added to that list to make a better computer, otherwise it'd at best be equal to one from Apple.
• dh997 11y ago
  I like and use Apple gear but I dont like untinkerable black boxes or opaque firmwares. I think we need a beautiful, functional servers,computer, handheld and wearables with opensource desktop lithography and 3d material deposition. It would take about $20 million and the right people to get going, but it could be hw UNIX -> Linux.
• justinhj 11y ago
  I have a Lenova Yoga Pro and it's great. Nice build quality, silent, touch screen. My kid found it plays latest games at medium detail.
• mt_caret 11y ago
  What about Vaios? The specs on it are impressive (WQHD, 16GB memory, 20h+ battery life) with a sleek build. Wondering if it goes along well with linux...
  • catwell 11y ago
    I have a Vaio Pro 13, one of the last Sony models. I bought it over two years ago now. It works very well under Linux. Initially there was a small issue with CPU frequency scaling because it was basically the first Haswell ultrabook, and I had to patch and compile my own kernel to work around it, but that was mainlined after one or two months. I got a version without a touchscreen and I consider it one of the best ultrabooks available, even today. I also have two older Vaios, a P (yes, this one http://www.getitnow.gr/MEDIA/content_CustomProductCatalog/m1380174pp_Sony-VAIO-P-Series-Atom-Z540-Orange-1440.jpg http://www.getitnow.gr/MEDIA/content_CustomProductCatalog/m1...) and an EB (17" laptop), which both work well under Linux. Reagarding the newer models, I have no feedback yet but I hope they will be fully supported, if not at the time of release then a few months later at most.
• TwoBit 11y ago
  And he didn't even mention the terribly shitty trackpad that every single pc laptop has. And its shitty synaptics software.
• melted 11y ago
  Just get a MacBook Pro and skip the aggravation entirely. You pay more for a reason. That reason is that no one else knows how to make a proper laptop anymore.
• chao- 11y ago
  I have the "old X1 Carbon with a low res screen", except that the article is a little inaccurate: it doesn't have to have a low res screen. You can select a 2560x1440 screen. Even better, it's a non-reflective (matte) screen and even has a non-touch option! I guess I'm not alone in disliking reflective screens. What sold me more than anything, though, was that I could select the best parts without being forced into a touchscreen. In so many other company's product lineups, if I wanted the 1440p screen (or whatever is highest), they were convinced I absolutely wanted a touchscreen, yes sirree! Thank you, Lenovo, for understanding my needs. I don't remember which manufacturer it was, but I remember one option page where if I wanted to select the Core i7 option, it required the touchscreen upgrade as well. I don't see any logic behind that at all except "Hey, that i7 means you must be a big spender, guess we'll milk you for all you've got!" As for OS, I run Linux Mint (Cinnamon) currently and experience no particular hardware or driver issues. Battery life is 5-8 hours depending on load, screen brightness, etc.
  • dschep 11y ago
    I actually intentionally got the "900p" lowres version (also matte) because I didn't feel like dealing with HiDPI support. I _love_ the click pad. 3 finger click (for middle click) is a million times more reliable than 3 finger tap in my experience.
• julochrobak 11y ago
  Does anyone have experience with the Tuxedo Computers - http://www.tuxedocomputers.com http://www.tuxedocomputers.com ? They have just recently released an interesting 13.3" InfinityBook.
  • lumannnn 11y ago
    Was about to post the same link. I was just recently introduced to them. Haven't seen or used one. But there is one user review (small one though) at the very bottom of the page. Roughly translated: "Very good build quality, light and nice design. Everything works out of the box. Great and nice customer service. Thanks again!" Haven't searched for other reviews yet. http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/10-14-Zoll/TUXEDO-InfinityBook-13-3-matt-Full-HD-IPS-Aluminiumgehaeuse-Intel-Core-i7-Energiespar-CPU-zwei-HDD/SSD-bis-16GB-RAM-bis-15h-Akku-Slim-Book.geek http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebook...
• canthonytucci 11y ago
  I feel compelled to bring up how cheap, modular and abundant bad-ass second-hand thinkpads are. Not to mention that even the new-generation keyboards are amazing, and put the shallow crap on my macbook pro to shame. The money you'd spend on even a 'cheap' macbook pro will get you something solidly built with a nice screen that's plenty fast for devlopment work AND money left over for an extra battery or 2 + a brand new fat SSD + 16 GB brand new RAM + a nice dinner (maybe even with a date). Just be careful not to get one from the awkward phase recently where they didn't have individual clicky-butons and this strange ceramic trackpad.
  • vortico 11y ago
    The IBM T60 is great, and its running price is around $50-65. I've been using a similar model for about a year, and with a lightweight Linux distro, my development efficiency is not decreased due to the performance.
  • spronkey 11y ago
    Most Thinkpads have terrible screens. Many used Thinkpads will need shims or otherwise under keyboards to stop them rattling. They also suffer from a number of issues such as electrical noise (i.e. coil whine), If you're thinking about a Thinkpad to replace a Macbook Pro, consider: - X220, X230 with IPS displays. Most aren't. Check for backlight bleed. - X250 with IPS display, but be mindful that the CPU is actually no faster than the X230 (15W U series vs 28-35W). X240 has weird buttons that don't work, avoid. - X1 Carbon, 1st or 3rd gen. Avoid 2nd gen as split backspace key will drive you insane if you ever use more than one keyboard. Again, be mindful of U series CPUs. - T5xx have better displays than T4xx in general. But if you don't want the extra size, then avoid AU Optronics displays on T420 and T430 series, as they are grainy and poor. I believe the Tx50 series has IPS display options, maybe on the s model?
    • canthonytucci 11y ago
      I can confirm on the screen, I was impatient and did not seek out an ips screen on my x230 - it has awful viewing angles. My wife has an X1 2nd gen and the split backspace is something I must have repressed, good call there. Total shit. I would also make sure not to think of a used, "does enough" thinkpad as a replacement for a new Macbook Pro any more than picking up an early 2000s Acura would be a replacement for a new Mercedes. It's an alternative, with its own trade-offs that may suit some people, but by no means a direct replacement.
• joonoro 11y ago
  The new ThinkPads are indeed awful, get the X220 aka the last good one. That should do you well until something worthwhile comes to replace it (maybe HP?) - Last old-style ThinkPad with great build quality - Last one with the classic keyboard - Small form factor - Sandy bridge i7, still kicks butt because it's not undervolted (check the benchmarks) - up to 16 GB memory - 10 hours of battery with a new 9-cell battery (+ tlp package on linux) - Linux or Windows works great
  • wyclif 11y ago
    I was a big ThinkPad guy until a few years ago, and I get why you recommend the X220...agree it's "the last good one." But can you explain what the "tlp package" does?
• sbuk 11y ago
  The declining software quality is nothing more than a meme. None of you you seem to remember the horror that was 10.0. Or 10.1. Or 10.2 Or...
  • spronkey 11y ago
    It's real. Sure, OS X was terrible in the early days. But then we got stuff like Tiger and Snow Leopard. It was clear progress. And now it isn't.
    • sbuk 11y ago
      Extrapolate; in what way? 10.4 took until 10.4.11 to be stable. Snow Leopards wasn't great out of the box either. Marco's original post was nerd rage and the new mDNS solution. Was it annoying? Yes. Is it symptomatic of a larger issue? Hardly. I think, like may others, you are looking at this with extremely rosey glasses, especially given the comparison to Linux desktops, which in my experience (around 15 years) is still not as reliable as OS X out of the box or intuitive; too many desktops trying to do too many things too differently. Of course YMMV, but I'd argue it was likely due to confirmation bias. I stand by the fact that this is nothing more than a meme.
      • spronkey 11y ago
        Maybe I have the ole' tinted glasses a la Rose, but I don't remember any really bad bugs with 10.4. Spotlight was slow, iTunes broke yet again, but in general it seemed to work OK. Maybe because I was on a PPC machine back then? I won't even try to defend Linux desktops, but I definitely notice just as many day to day issue with OS X than I did in the past, and really, I notice a lot more little bugs that really affect me. Like my multi monitor setup menu items disappear. And sometimes the windows don't render themselves correctly. Finder and smb etc..
        • sbuk 11y ago
          Honestly, I don't recognise any of the issues you mention. The only recent issue I had was with discoveryd.
• jernigan 11y ago
  Fear of Women’s Chest lead to the Discovery of Stethoscope: Rene Laennec.. http://goo.gl/P7xc2s http://goo.gl/P7xc2s
• sreenadh 11y ago
  I am surprised that the author did not consider Dell. I T410i user, but I will not be buying another thinkpad based on the current line up. Plus I have many issues with Linux drivers. Windows is no more reliable and I am forced to move on. Mac is great but the inability to modify is bugging me. I have a MBP also. Of course, nothing beats a PC but its tough while travelling or when you just want to move around while working. Micheal Dell making the company private will be good if he planning to focus on making quality hardware like Dell Developer Edition XPS + Project Sputnik, which is an interesting project. But still needs to mature. So if I have to buy a machine today, I am lost. There is a need for quality machine for developers as we spend long time with it. It needs to be durable, light, matte screen(its very tough to get that now a days), low heat, good keyboard (mechanical like old thinkpads), good driver support for Linux, decent battery. PLUS have a higher score on iFixit. I like the rating of XPS 13 @ https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Dell+XPS+13+Teardown/36157 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Dell+XPS+13+Teardown/36157
  • tushar-r 11y ago
    |Plus I have many issues with Linux drivers. Which is unfortunate, since Thinkpads used to have the best support for Linux in earlier generations :-(
  • kenrikm 11y ago
    I'm not sure I get it? Why not just buy a Macbook and install Ubuntu? you get the nicely designed hardware and don't have to run OSX if you don't want to.
    • sreenadh 11y ago
      I have a rule that a machine has to be with me for atleast 5 years. But around the 3 years, a ram upgrade and hd change is vital to extent the life. My HP Compaq lasted for 8 years before its fell in water. My thinkpad is done 6 yrs and I am current using that. I doubt I get equal life from my soon to be 1 yr mbp without some tweaking and the low score on iFixit is dishearting. iFixit is a great site and I feel it need more attention. I dream is to get a machine with iFixit score of 10.
• ne01 11y ago
  I love my ThinkPad X220 and highly recommend ThinkPad X series. I remember the day UPS delivered it. I had a flash drive with a Debian 6 image ready to be installed, didn't even boot up the windows to check if everything was OK. ~2.5 years after using it for about 10 hours per day USB ports started to randomly disconnect and reconnect it was very annoying. I had no idea that ThinkPad X series has 3 years of warranty and still cannot believe that Lenovo sent someone to my house (3 days after I contacted them!) and changed the motherboard it's basically a brand new laptop. FYI, bought it directly from lenove's outlet website for ~$700. My thinker is ~4 years old and it's still one of my most beloved objects in this world.
• trynumber9 11y ago
  Well, the VAIO Z returns soon after a brief hiatus. Maybe look into those? [0]: http://us.vaio.com/vaio-z/ http://us.vaio.com/vaio-z/ [1]: http://us.vaio.com/vaio-z-flip/ http://us.vaio.com/vaio-z-flip/
• josteink 11y ago
  So he says there are some good computers out there (like the Lenovo Carbon X1), but due to his bad luck and timing on his part it's a bad choice for another month. If you just wipe Windows clean on those Lenovos and use them for Linux (Fedora runs great on them!) you wont have to worry about those Superfish issues and everything else plaguing the world of windows-users. I can see why you would decide not to want to reward Lenovo with your money after those incidents, but it's still some of the best you are going to get.
• garyclarke27 11y ago
  Macbook Pro is best windows pc - runs perfectly via bootcamp. So much better than slower flackier virtual options - i tried all of them - fast reboot so easy to switch. I need windows for 64 bit Excel 2016 much fatser than mac 32 bit only. 2 diplay ports also great- drives 2 32 inch high res monitors perfectly.
  • pjmlp 11y ago
    Not if you care about graphics or GPGPU programming.
• vegabook 11y ago
  I've been very happy with my Dell Precision M3800 which has outstanding build quality, easily comparable to my previous MacBook, and runs Ubuntu perfectly. In fact I like it better hardware-wise than the macbooks because it has a much more pleasant keyboard-surround surface, which is not freezing cold like my MacBook, nor does it have that unpleasant vertical front leading edge which in my opinion is uncomfortable when touch typing. On a separate note though, Lenovo has kinda promised to build a 90's-level robust "retro-Thinkpad", the feedback forums for which were wildly successful. http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-time-to-think http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-thinkpad-time-to-think
  • Jedd 11y ago
    Agreed. The M3800 workstation is what I chose after a similarly frustrating search to the OP's over a year ago. It's all subjective, but big pros for me was Win7 (as a business machine this was available over a year ago, at a time when most new laptops were Win8 only), really good Debian support (with VMware I rarely need to boot into Win7 now), 16GB RAM option, two drive bays (mSATA and SATA) so 2TB SSD is obtainable, very high resolution screen (3200x1800). Cons - gloss screen occasionally frustrating, all that space and they relegated page-up/down and home/end into Fn-accessible keys, short battery life, 15" is perhaps too big (but 13" is untenable as a mobile computer), poor touch-screen support in Debian, hideously expensive when properly kitted out (16GB, after-market two x 1TB drives, best display, etc). In any case, OP has some good points - with Lenovo breaking everyone's trust (and their keyboards going downhill) options for good GNU/Linux mobile workstations are drastically reduced, and it's a painful process to try to work out what hardware support is actually like before you actually have a new machine in front of you.
    • vegabook 11y ago
      yes - I have a fully kitted out one (16GB, 512 ssd, quadro, hidpi etc) and it hit me for around 2000 pounds at the time. Same price as similar MBP. The only issue I've had is that I couldn't get CUDA running properly under any Linux flavour when I also had an external monitor plugged in. Completely frustrating so the quadro 1100 basically goes unused. Other than that, I like the machine a lot. It's superseded now but the new one looks even better. I don't honestly think I'll need to replace this for another couple of years so 4-5 years for this to me makes the initial outlay easy to justify.
• kennycox 11y ago
  How much RAM do you need for gaming? However, I have 8GB RAM but the game hardly takes 4GB for functioning. One of my friends has 32 GB RAM but I think he is more paying for it. Is more than 8GB RAM needed for gaming?
• gonader 11y ago
  Dell XPS 13 is an amazingly good laptop, very well supported in Arch Linux
• finishingmove 11y ago
  If I were getting a new laptop right now, I'd get the Dell XPS 13 (2015). I get the post's sentiment though, but what really sucks IMO is not the PC/laptop market but mobile...
• MindTooth 11y ago
  Amen to that!
• hans0l074 11y ago
  I purchased a System76 Galago UltraPro (this model does not seem to be available anymore) at the end of 2014. I have been observing System76 for a year or more before I caved in and purchased this. I live in Finland - and they shipped it across. I really love this laptop. I'm also a Mac user (Air, Pro etc) and I expected the build quality to be lower, but it was surprisingly solid. Perhaps their build quality has improved? Also, one of the most common complaints was about their keyboard and it seems they have fixed this - I have had no problems. I love having a Ubuntu portable for my day-to-day devops work over VPN and with everything set up (all my tools, IDE's etc), it's been a pleasure. Their new line up looks impressive (I'm tempted to get another one). But yes, the battery life is really bad - 2-3 hour max or even less if you have IntelliJ or a VM running. So I have placed a power adapter at all my usual work locations :) Edit : spelling
  • 001spartan 11y ago
    I had the UltraPro as my work laptop at my last employer, and I despised it. The keyboard was impossible to work with (typos, keys didn't always register), and it felt flimsy and cheap. Not what I would expect from a system that cost as much as a MacBook. The only benefit was the powerful specs.
• mntmn 11y ago
  I recently got a Thinkpad T450s after using iBook & MacBooks for 10 years and I'm very pleasantly surprised about build quality and feel.
  • jryan49 11y ago
    +1 for Thinkpad T450s
• agarwalrishi 11y ago
  Yup. I agree. We need a good PC with the form factor of Mac mini but without Mac OS. Only option I have is to buy a Mac mini and install Ubuntu on that. Or buy Intel mini PC (Intel NUC). Both options are quite expensive, at least in India.
  • lazyjones 11y ago
    > Or buy Intel mini PC (Intel NUC). Both options are quite expensive, at least in India. You can always get some China-made Intel Mini-PCs like these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fanless-i5-Mini-PC-Windows-Barebone-PC-Broadwell-Intell-Core-i5-5200U-2-7GHz-4K-HTPC/32366202925.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fanless-i5-Mini-PC-Windows-Ba... Jeff Atwood seems to like them (as routers): http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-scooter-computer/ http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-scooter-computer/
• justaaron 11y ago
  all these comments to debate what is actually still a standing point: name a non-mac laptop that' doesn't suck (is it injection molded plastic with a screen that will eventually flop flop flop? then it sucks!) then let's find a distro that doesn't suck! (does in include binary blob drivers? then it sucks! is it unity? then it sucks!)
  • tetheno 11y ago
    Lenovo Thinkpad. HP Elitebook. Dell Precision/Latitude. Also, most of those can be bough on Ebay for a fraction of the cost. I'm very happy with the value offered by 2 year old laptops.
• vok5 11y ago
  I bought a Lafité here: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/lafiteII/ http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/lafiteII/. I believe it is a rebranded Clevo, which is custom-built for you. Lately, I changed the WiFi card without any issue. You can also change the SSD if you want, same for the RAM. The best parts are: Build quality, price (you don't pay for the OS, only if you want to and you get to pay for parts you want), keyboard is nice, lightweight and screen is great.
• manigandham 11y ago
  CES revealed a bunch of new laptops that seem promising: LG Gram 15 [1], Samsung Notebook 9 [2], Dell 7000 Series [3] 1. http://www.lg.com/us/laptops/lg-gram-15Z960-A.AA75U1-ultra-slim-laptop http://www.lg.com/us/laptops/lg-gram-15Z960-A.AA75U1-ultra-s... 2. http://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-introduces-new-notebook-9-series-for-2016 http://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-introduces-new-notebo... 3. http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10720212/dell-latitude-13-windows-laptop-ces-2016 http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10720212/dell-latitude-13-w...
• tempodox 11y ago
  +1. This article should be at the top of HN.
• headmelted 11y ago
  Am I missing something? Can't you just boot Ubuntu on a Macbook if that's what you want to do? (This is a genuine question - I've always found OSX sufferable enough to not need to, and I have a fanless Acer for Ubuntu that travels with me).
  • suprfnk 11y ago
    Yes you can. But from the article: "However, I don't want a Mac. Apple has great design, but they sell things that are locked down, both physically and in software. You're not supposed to open them, you're not supposed to replace parts, and if they break you're supposed to take them to your nearest "Genius Bar". Not my style."
    • headmelted 11y ago
      I saw that, and it's fair I guess, but isn't that increasingly the direction hardware is moving industry-wide? (thinner, lighter, sleeker). I was strongly under the impression that other manufacturers' products were becoming less-and-less hackable by design. Am I wrong?
• TurboHaskal 11y ago
  The author thinks apple.com is the pinnacle of web design, values form over function as he prefers the x1 carbon, gets overwhelmed when having too many choices, dislikes seeing user reviews on a product site and probably lies on the ground on a fetal position at the thought of replacing a hard drive by himself. He is exactly the kind of person Apple makes products for. Just get a Macbook already.
  • akerro 11y ago
    You missed the part about hardware locking and replaceable parts. Because of that, I will never ever buy anything from Apple, it's a big deal for me to replace RAM and HDD whenever I want, for whatever I want. I used to have mac book running Getnoo Linux, until I wanted to add new RAM... I bought new Dell. I have one SSD and one HDD in my laptop (because I don't need cdrom in 2016), I removed it and put HDD there and 4x USBs.
• glossyscr 11y ago
  Not disagreeing but there is one notebook and this is how the Macbook should have been: - Same build quality as Apple - Thin and light as the Macbook - Pixel density higher than Retina - Powerful CPU - Just released http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth
  • Aoyagi 11y ago
    Razer and built quality or reliability don't go well together.
    • glossyscr 11y ago
      I made different experiences. And do you have this ultrabook or ever touched it yourself?
      • Aoyagi 11y ago
        No, I just have plenty of experience with Razer's accessories.
        • dokument 11y ago
          Isn't that kind of like saying that Apples phone chargers and cords are always failing/breaking so Apple has bad build quality on all of their products?
          • Aoyagi 11y ago
            I guess. Are they always failing/breaking? Then again, those things are by-products, Razer's peripherals are its main business. My guess is that the Razer thing is based on a Clevo frame. If that's the case, I'd somewhat trust it.
    • imtringued 11y ago
      We'll find out soon enough if that's the case.
• Matthias247 11y ago
  I agree with the content, but not necessarily with the headline. If you need a Desktop PC the options are plenty, you can pick from a large set of components and build pretty much what you want, from decent formfactor to big towers with powerful and good hardware. For high quality notebooks however I came to the same conclusion as the author. I wanted to buy a new personal notebook last year, and actually did not want to get a Macbook, as I am not that into Apple and OSX. But I could not really find an alternative, even in the same (high) price region, so I got a MBP13 and I'm happy with it. For the windows machines either the build quality is way lower, battery life is lower, screen resolution is lower, input devices suck or the price tag is even higher (X1 Carbon, XPS13. Surface book too, but it wasn't available in germany anyway). Another thing that influenced my decision heavily was the Touchpad. On the MBP it works beautifully, and in combination gesture features of the OS it makes working on such a small screen and without an external mouse much more pleasant. On the windows machines the touchpad response is mostly somewhere between bad and mediocre, and there's no swipe between workspaces and such stuff.
• joefreeman 11y ago
  I went through a similar process recently after getting fed up with Apple's direction. I ended up getting a Surface Pro 4. The build quality seems good, battery is ok. The software/drivers are terrible - it rarely wakes up from sleep, and I don't get much delight from using Windows. Hoping Linux support improves in the near future.
  • elboru 11y ago
    What do you mean by drivers are terrible? Do some components fail randomly in Windows? Or do you mean they just don't work with Linux? Just asking because I'm planning to buy a Surface Pro
    • joefreeman 11y ago
      There seems to be something up with the display driver in Windows relating to sleep. Sometimes after I login, Windows proudly tells me it's recovered from a display driver problem. Other times the screen just won't turn on (the keyboard lights come on, and the IR light that Hello uses comes on), so I have to keep restarting the machine. I'm guessing this will get fixed eventually though. Only seems to happen after disconnecting from the charger.
    • raisedbyninjas 11y ago
      Issues with drivers have affected display, charging hibernation on surface devices. Other skylake laptops have seen similar problems so they may share the same root cause.
• VeejayRampay 11y ago
  Man, community managers for all the biggest PC manufacturers must be rubbing their hands on posts like this.
• Roritharr 11y ago
  My real issue is finding a decent 13inch laptop that allows 2x4K Monitors at 60hz via simple Docking. The Surface Book failed in that regard and I haven't gotten confirmation from Dell that the TB 15 Dock will support it. In the 15 inch Category there is only the HP Zbook with its gorgeous 4 Thunderbolt Ports that allow it. But that's Desktop Replacement, not a portable 13 incher. Currently I drive 2 2560x1440 Monitors on my Surface Pro 2, one via MiniDp and one via USB3 and am kinda happy with it, I just need more ram... But upgrading and then once again hitting the limits so soon would give me buyers remorse quick.
  • nhumrich 11y ago
    I have a lenovo t450 with Ubuntu and I have 3 monitors working from the dock. Don't know if it supports 4k or not, but it should, the dock has two display ports.
• dba7dba 11y ago
  We need Elon to jump into PC business.
• zobby 11y ago
  Just buy an ASUS ZENBOOK, and you're good to go.
• thephilsproject 11y ago
  I had this same problem almost exactly a year ago. I now have a Surface Pro 3. I wanted a decent CPU, high res screen, , good build, long battery life and small chassis. Then I chose whichever was cheapest which met those criteria. I've not been disappointed with my decision!
• fsloth 11y ago
  A good anecdote but I disagree with the notion that Surface is not a laptop but a tablet. I use my Surface Pro 4 i5 as a laptop and it's a pretty good one at that.
• laumars 11y ago
  A year or so ago I was having the same dilemma, but then stumbled across Samsung Chronos. Previously I'd only seen the lower end of Samsung laptops and they were predictably crap. But the higher end Chronos' are something special, sleek design, solid build quality and decent specifications. My only quibble is that Samsung lean a little more towards Apple's design than HPs, so accessing components is a little harder work than I'd have liked. But the upside is my Chronos has excellent compatibility with Linux. I'm very pleased with my laptop and would recommend the Chronos range to others.
• aap_ 11y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree. I'm still using a T61 because I don't really like any of the models that succeeded it. The new keyboard, the reduced keyboard layout, the huge touchpad (which I disable anyway) with those reduced buttons, small screen resolutions compared to my 1400x1050 (unless you pay for the ultra expensive display panel or get)...it's just not attractive anymore. And as the author said, thinkpads are still among the best laptops :/ I'd be willing to throw some money at lenovo for a laptop I want to have but it looks like they're no longer producing those :(
• Aardwolf 11y ago
  Personally I interpret the word PC as something like this: http://bi9he1w7hz8qbnm2zl0hd171.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Digital-Storm.jpg http://bi9he1w7hz8qbnm2zl0hd171.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c... so it's funny that it's about laptops :)
• kba 11y ago
  I still feel like a MacBook Pro would be a good choice for the author. He starts out by talking about being able to replace parts, but later doesn't make that as a requirement when he asks for: - Decent build quality - Decent performance and battery life - A decent website - A clean OS without crapware or malware factory installed If you want a laptop that's somewhat thin, light and with decent battery life, you often do have to sacrifice being able to replace anything. By soldering on the RAM and storage, you get more room for batteries. This also especially becomes evident by his System76 Galago that can last 3 hours. So in conclusion: Just get a MacBook, it has decent build quality, performance, battery life and website. A good OS? I'm not going to be the judge of that, but installing Ubuntu or Windows on a Mac is luckily very easy.
• k_bx 11y ago
  One very strong point which not that many discuss here is how awful websites of non-Apple manufacturers are. They are a strong indication of how bad things are organized and developed at those companies, if they can't make a nice website answering all your questions in an attractive manner – how can they expect you to buy stuff from them? Always impressed me.
  • creshal 11y ago
    HP's website should be discussed in UX curricula as best example how to never, ever, under any circumstances including death threats to design a website. From crazy URLs to crazy design to absurd uptime issues to random slowdowns, the inability to use it for anything made me go away from procuring HP products. Lenovo's is not quite as bad, but the article already highlighted the worst offences. At least I've memorized what to augment my google searches with to find the specific page I need. (I know, I know.) From the "enterprise" vendors, Dell is the best, because you only need to navigate through a single poorly worded drop-down menu to find somewhere to enter your service tag. Their shop, on the other hand, is absurd (clunky interface and zero configuration options) and seems to solely exist to make you bother a Dell reseller instead (who have better prices, more options, and are, despite email ping-pong, faster).
    • raisedbyninjas 11y ago
      Dell used to provide abundant configurations. You could get significantly different prices for identical or very similar machines depending on the shop you used, special URLs, promotions or changing components on different models. Asus was lauded ITT for their website design. I'd disagree because I've been considering a zenbook. I couldn't find the comparison between the models or even the submodels of the UX305. It is pretty though.
  • buro9 11y ago
    Even if you know you want to buy from Lenovo... have you ever tried it? In Europe that means interacting with Digital River. It's extremely common that your first order will just be binned by their fraud squad, and from there if you persevere you'll be welcomed by even more pain and torture until the laptop eventually arrives and your view of Lenovo is already very negative.
• ryan-allen 11y ago
  TLDR: he didn't do much research. It is true that there is a lot of crap out there for PCs but there are some decent laptops, it's just harder to find them. Dell XPS' are good. Surface Book is totally equivalent to a Macbook Pro in terms of build quality.
• Uptrenda 11y ago
  Has the quality of laptops really been decreasing or are we just remembering "the old days" with nostalgia? Seems like a perfect question that could be easily answered with proper research. My guess: if you're prepared to pay several thousand you can still buy quality modern laptops today (like ThinkPad P70.) Or do it the cheap way: buy old hardware that's known for its reliability like used ThinkPads (currently using a ThinkPad T520 myself.) There's a good guide here for choosing a ThinkPad model if you're a fan of solid laptops that will last: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/images/8/8f/Tpg140901.png https://wiki.installgentoo.com/images/8/8f/Tpg140901.png -- it's a bit memey but has solid advice.
• vacri 11y ago
  Meh, the author wants a better computer, but isn't willing to spend for it. The author runs linux, so the crapware from lenovo shouldn't matter, and the lenovo thinkpad line have excellent build quality (stay away from the ideapads). But the author complains that the cheap end of X1 town isn't retina. Sure, for the same price, a macbook air does retina, but that low-end X1 carbon has other features that the air does not have. So by 'better PC', the author really means 'cheap PC filled with top-end gizmos and a top-end build quality'.
• pmontra 11y ago
  I've been happy with the first ZBook. 1080p, SDD or spinning disks, you can add replace the DVD with another disk, up to 32 GB RAM, apparently you can replace the CPU and the NVIDIA card too. The ZBook G2 specs are even better. The only minus on your list would be the battery. It can reach maybe 4 hours (Linux) but not more. I knew that and it's not a problem, there is always a power plug nearby where I work. The only minus in my list was the keyboard, because it has a number pad, but the keys are excellent. It's also definitely not a 1 kg laptop and the power brick is as heavy as a brick, but I don't care much.
• lhnz 11y ago
  Sorry in advance for taking the headline and talking about something else. What I want is a real personal computer that can fit in my pocket. A mobile device that is extremely open and very easy to hack on. I would like it to expose sensory readings in a UI and then provide a simple if-this-then-that UI that would allow me to teach daemons to respond to events that occur during the day and additionally support scripting for more complex automations. And once this device exists I'd like open protocols to exist to help other I/O devices to expose themselves to it. Simply put I'd like devices to start offering extra senses to us beyond the five we were born with, and for these to be unencumbered from walled gardens. Does such a thing exist?
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  • walterbell 11y ago
    Nokia N900 or Nokia N9 running Linux?
• omphalos 11y ago
  I wish the author included something about the Intel Management Engine. It runs closed source software with privileged access to your entire machine including support for remote execution, has a history of critical vulnerabilities, and is present on every current Intel chip.
• Aoyagi 11y ago
  And while we're at it, why don't we have some VA or even OLED matte displays for laptops?
• szukai 11y ago
  Lenovo only inherited the name from IBM. It's not the same as it used to be... I really wish the author of the post looked beyond one or two laptops given the title he used for his writeup.
• flatroze 11y ago
  Go for gaming PCs/laptops. It's the same with clothes today: you can get the "survival/military" type of outwear which is better in quality and tend to last longer than usual outwear. You will look like a show-off, but in reality it's where the jean companies used to be when they first appeared (they used to be made for gold miners and construction workers). I would get something like Aorus X3 or Razer Blade Stealth, both feature really good screens and great hardware. Also seem to be well-engineered, unlike those plastic toys from Dell, Lenovo and all the others.
• beyondcompute 11y ago
  Thanks for the post. I think, we need more of these. I too have been feeling that the companies in a sense "aren't even trying" to show some care and respect for a customer. We agree to pay money for "hardware", they accustomed to "assemble together" some electronic components. There's no inspiration, no consideration, no ambition to provide experience that lasts (despite that hardware is fast-to-become-obsolete, the brand image and the impression you leave can be relevant for a much longer time). For me personally the only decent machine out there is MacBook Air. It does not make false promises about performance (like other laptops do, only to fail miserably later). My ideal machine would be lightweight plastic with mechanic keyboard. Performance is not really critical. Something like Surface pro with 14 inch display and mechanical keyboard (touch-screen is not necessary; good, macbook-like touchpad is) would do.
• hendry 11y ago
  The Lenovo X1C3 is not that bad. I recommend it & it runs Archlinux beautifully. https://natalian.org/2015/02/18/Archlinux_on_a_Lenovo_X1C3/ https://natalian.org/2015/02/18/Archlinux_on_a_Lenovo_X1C3/ Yes, Lenovo sales and support are pretty hopeless. Just got to factor that fact in. Must say Apple are pretty hopeless unless you get Apple care. Anyway, the real problem in my mind is that there is pretty much no competition to Intel nowadays.
• bechampion 11y ago
  I was in this situation , I've moved away from osx a month ago i couldn't be happier. I've moved from a macbook pro retina to a Lenovo x250/i5/8GB/HD screen, Running xubuntu 15.10 ... most bits work (DualScreen/VPN/NiceRDPapp(Remmina)/etc etc) I've had major issues with Webex (need to have a jre 32bit running on a 64 bit os) but other than that all good! Good luck!
• mamcx 11y ago
  Currently my biggest problem with apple machines is the low amount of storage, and in the case of the news iMacs and Macbooks, how costly and IMPOSSIBLE to replace them are. I wish apple forget spinning hardrives, go full on SSD and ship with > 512 GB
• S_A_P 11y ago
  Some of the big PC vendors have started catching up. I just bought an HP Envy for my father in law, and the hardware is pretty solid, and it had some features I really like(256GB ssd and 1TB hybrid drive, 16gb ram stock, nice display). It is really snappy, and despite his being non technical and wary of moving from Windows 7 to 10, he got on with it really quickly. I think there is another issue with PC battery life here. Nothing heats up/drains my macbook pro's battery life quicker than windows 10. I have tried various power settings, but nothing ever quite "fixes" it. I have had to do the following "tweaks" to improve battery performance of Windows 10: 1)Disable Cortana(at least as much as you are able to) 2)remove this "phone companion" app that seems to reinstall with every new update 3)adjust power management which noticeably slows performance and or annoyingly shuts down the screen. 4)randomly go in and kill rogue battery robbing processes Mac OS seems to seamlessly handle power management regardless of what Im doing- including multitrack audio recording/processing. I never hear the fan while running OSX only. But without fail my laptop heats up and the fan starts cranking while I have Windows running. I am getting closer to not ever needing to run windows, but I still do some .NET work and work with Sql Server. For me, its a huge turn off to hear a laptop constantly fighting to stay cool. In fact this is the major flaw I saw with the HP laptop I got my father in law. It would get hot and crank the fan. In my anecdotal opinion, windows is a poor laptop OS, and I don't see how there could be a better pc/laptop/tablet until Microsoft figures out how to manage power. I don't have a use case for Linux, so things could be better there, but Linux is still relegated to niche users for the most part in laptops.
• ebbv 11y ago
  This idea that laptops should be tinker able is just so weird to me. No laptop is really tinker able. The best you can do is replace RAM and HDD. Motherboards, battery modules, etc. are all proprietary in these things and usually anything beyond those three is non-trivial to replace. Call me crazy but I'd rather just have a machine that's specced right out of the box, and with a battery module that I never need to replace. My 2012 15" Retina MacBook is still going strong over 3.5 years later. Not only that but the machine has been a pleasure to use every day. It's true there should be alternatives to Apple products out there that are similar build quality, but I have yet to find them. Some of my coworkers are hard line anti-Apple and their laptops are all really poorly made, IMHO.
• thedaemon 11y ago
  The headline is misleading. It should say a better laptop. A PC is not equal to a laptop. I was hoping for a in depth article about modern computer design, but instead found a rant about bad websites and lack of well engineered laptops.
• crudbug 11y ago
  I have both Thinkpad T540 & MBP. The thing I miss the most is the dual mini-display port for support triple monitor (2K) desk work.
• crudbug 11y ago
  The other thing lacking is Linux multi-monitor support, I see gnome crashing all the time.
• tobyhinloopen 11y ago
  I agree with the article. I switched to Apple because the OS & hardware were superior, but they aren't anymore. Hardware vendors are catching up and Windows 10 is actually not that bad. OS X is actually getting worse.
• wprapido 11y ago
  i'm using a lenovo W540 and am genuinely happy. 32GB RAM, SSD + HDD, old-style keyboard. the only downside is screen resolution of 1920x1080. that's perhaps the only reason why i'm going to replace it
• agentgt 11y ago
  I too came to the same conclusion that the article did quite some time ago. Apple just owns on build quality. I am Longtime Lenovo + Linux user that recently switched to Mac and as much I really hate OSX UI the build quality of apple is worth it (that and skype sort of works better on mac than Linux). The thing that shocks me with my new Mac is how incredibly unstable OSX is at times (El Capitan and previous version). You would think given such hardware control my mac would be more stable than my parents Windows 10 Lenovo Yoga or even Linux on crappy hardware but lately it has not been the case for me.
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• dfar1 11y ago
  This article covers one computer brand mostly based on their poor website design... and that's it? That's why we need a better pc?
• izzydata 11y ago
  Easy, build a desktop.
• AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
  It's a shame that Samsung apparently doesn't consider the laptop market worth their time anymore. Their Ativ Book 9 was a great little laptop.
• shaurz 11y ago
  This is why I don't buy laptop computers... they are still overpriced toys. I mean, on a theoretical level, the idea of a mobile computer is appealing, but in practice they all suck very badly.
• cowardlydragon 11y ago
  Not only that, all desktop OSes are regressing. Well, windows 10 is an improvement over the massive shitstorm of Windows 8 where Microsoft apparently tried to commit corporate suicide. Ubuntu and desktop linux continue to be extremely frustrating. I tried Suse, Ubuntu, and Mint in the last box I built for Xmas, and Ubuntu was the only one that installed cleanly, a marked improvement from the previous couple releases. OSX is hardware-locked and it has many many problems and frustrations, especially if you are used to key bindings from the PC / Linux realm. Desktop/laptop is steadily dying. We are all basically waiting on a hybrid of Android to take over desktop. I continue to be mystified as to why Google does not pursue a desktop Linux operating system that's good. (aka not ChromeOS). It's a gigantic market to take over that Microsoft was begging someone to take from them throughout the Windows 8 debacle. With an unnoticeable hit to their bottom line they could assemble a team that would clean up Crossoffice, merge with Android, make tons of money from Android app store, get search/voice search/services integration at the OS... ChromeOS could/should be this, but either it's not properly funded to handle the Windows interoperability (put/fund WINE on steroids) more seamlessly or doesn't have very good people on it.
• intrasight 11y ago
  I've been buying Lenovo's for about 6 years and are mostly happy. I always buy a bare-bones version and add my own memory and SSD and do a clean OS install (after updating all firmware). A "new machine" is a 20 hour minimum time commitment so I don't do it more frequently than necessary. I always overlap two machines so I have backup. I am due for an upgrade and was looking at the T460p. But I just read about the bad decisions Lenovo made regarding internal storage so now I am looking for something else.
• IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  The Surface Book and the Dell XPS 13 were not mentioned, while they're easily both in the top 3.
• bduerst 11y ago
  I used an X1 Carbon for years - it's a sweet machine. If you get one, make sure you don't order the generation with the touch-pad control bar, because it craps out.
• 8note 11y ago
  My acer s7 does pretty well; I've repaired it from severe rain damage, and it's generally easy to disassemble and replace the parts to. it's got a reasonably nice screen, nice build quality, and reasonably good performance, though you cant change out the wifi chip, nor the ram The webasite also said about enough to do well, and the windows install it came with just had some acer junk on it.
• niutech 11y ago
  No offense, but the author has a first world problem. The notebook should be functional - powerful, lightweight, long lasting, not necessarily pretty. It is not an exhibit, it's a tool. Why does he need a good web page to buy it??? That said, he can grab a Chromebook and install a full-blown Linux distro on it.
• funkaster 11y ago
  For me, that better PC is the Chromebook Pixel (2015), of course, running linux instead of the crippled Chrome OS. It's my main dev machine and I use it more than the MBP that I got @ work.
• jgeerts 11y ago
  > "they sell things that are locked down, both physically and in software" Well, I can understand the physically part, but fortunately you can solve it with money, you just have to pay for your hardware upfront, it is expensive, but I work on my MacBook Pro > 9hrs a day. It's four years old now and doesn't need replacement yet, it's doing fine, the battery is doing fine. Most people only look at how much an item costs at the time of purchase, but a fairer comparison would include the span of time that your device is sufficient and you don't need replacement. I use my laptop for my job, the amount of money I make with a laptop outweighs the cost of a laptop by far. Most professionals in their job invest in good material, why would it be different in IT? As for the software part, the software that Apple provides is astonishing to me. For example wiping a HD multiple times is just a setting, in windows you can start looking for freeware for doing the same thing. It comes with so many possibilities out of the box, I can't think of anything that I would want to do that I can't do now. Just yesterday I sat next to a guy running Ubuntu and I couldn't believe what I saw, when he tried to search his hard drive he typed in his search parameters.. but then the first thing that popped up were shopping items, faster than the items present on his hard drive... Really?!? A MacBook pro isn't perfect and it is costly but it's simply the best option for me now.
• richardboegli 11y ago
  Here it is: RAZER BLADE STEALTH http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth Only downside is only 8gb ram, otherwise great machine. Once a 16/32gb version available, it'll be purchased pretty quickly ;)
• dopemath 11y ago
  The Chromebook Pixel and Surace Pro lines are what I am lookin towards to solve this very issue