10 ms·

I don't understand why it exists as a popular sport anyways, it's 5 seconds of action followed by 30 seconds of two guys talking about it. The average football

by Touche 11y ago

I don't understand why it exists as a popular sport anyways, it's 5 seconds of action followed by 30 seconds of two guys talking about it. The average football game has 11 minutes of action[1]. Everything but the last ~8 minutes of the 4th quarter is boring. Yet Americans love it. I don't get it. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527487042812045750028...

danharaj 11y ago
There's a lot of strategy between plays. Because the action isn't continuous it has a different flavor from a continuously played game like the other football. It's sort of a hybrid between a real-time game and a turn-based game, which is cool. I think it would be much more interesting if there were more time on the field, but i'm sure the NFL and their advertising partners love all that time that can be filled up with ads. I dislike the game because the players get horribly injured, either immediately, or decades later. The NFL is a company that makes money by encouraging degenerative brain disease in its employees.
- Touche 11y ago
  That doesn't explain the popularity, strategy is invisible to the viewer. Chess is not a popular spectator sport.
  - danharaj 11y ago
    It's not invisible. i'm not a serious sports fan, but when i'm around them they notice a great deal more detail than i do. a seasoned football fan can identify a play rather quickly. they know the styles and predispositions of their favorite players and coaches very well. they understand how field conditions and the state of the game influence the decisions made. it's rather fun to watch with a knowledgeable friend. having some sort of depth is required for popularity, even if it is not sufficient. chess is not a popular sport for other reasons, probably the lack of money and the sheer marathon that is a high level game. soccer has been gaining ground in the US because moneyed interests have been pushing the sport and trying to build the franchises for years. the level of investment required for a nationally popular sport is steep. no one's going to put that money into chess any time soon. like all things in our world, capital is often the difference between "is" and "isn't", but other ingredients are also required.
  - jtuente 11y ago
    The strategy is far from invisible to an informed viewer; many viewers are very vocal of their opinions of the topic, too. The reason chess isn't a popular spectator sport has more to do with the fact that all of the moves are very clearly defined, bishop moves at angles; knight moves in L's, and has no correlation to feats of extreme athleticism, the knight can't suddenly move into an unexpected direction.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    There's strategy, and in a broadcast (as opposed to attending a live event), there are commentators to explain it to the average viewer. There are also amazingly spectacular plays, which you can appreciate whether or not you understand the strategy. That doesn't explain why it's more popular than, say, basketball, though...
    - jowiar 11y ago
      The problem with basketball as a spectator sport is that the marginal importance of any particular small piece of the game is small, and predictable. There may be awesome feats of athleticism and skill, but they really don't count for a lot, and by the end of the game, you could remove any one (or more) of them and the result of the game would have been the same. When you think about what makes, say, movies exciting, it's plot twists. And a basketball game has a very high change of having none -- the better team plays a bit better than the lesser team, and at the end of the game, they have a few more points. For football, baseball, hockey, and soccer, there are far more plot twists.
      - derekp7 11y ago
        Basketball gets its popularity from the fact that it is really easy for people to play it themselves (every recess in school has a few hoops in use continuously, and every other driveway has a hoop in it or above the garage).
        jowiar 11y ago
        And every city has plenty of public courts. Soccer in the US has always been more of an organized sport and less of a street/pickup sport. It's more "something you haul the suburban kids to" than "toss a couple objects on the ground, call them a goal, and kick the ball at it". Baseball used to be a street sport here, but really isn't anymore (but it is in the Caribbean).
      - jimbokun 11y ago
        I actually think the experience of watching basketball, hockey, and soccer are more similar to each other in having fast paced, flowing action. Football and baseball are more punctuated, stop-start action.
  - brandonmenc 11y ago
    > explain the popularity Besides the hits, 1. The short season You're always left wanting more. There's an order of magnitude fewer NFL games compared to the NBA, MLB, or NHL. And it's convenient - you can follow pro football and have most of the year off and, during the season, most of the week off. 2. The action Yeah, the ball is only in play for a few minutes, but there are 60-70 plays per game - that's a lot of punctuated action compared to the snail's pace of baseball or the constant back and forth of the other sports. And the plays are more likely to be do-or-die drive or game changers than in the other sports. It's way more edge-of-your-seat. Those two features are somewhat "drug-like," imo.
    - flying_kangaroo 11y ago
      > There's an order of magnitude fewer NFL games compared to the NBA, MLB, or NHL Strongly agree. I've tried many a time to 'get into' baseball, but every day is just way too much. It also tends to increase the importance of each individual game, which (ignoring the quasi-nihilistic "it's just a sport, man") is another reason for the popularity.
  - matwood 11y ago
    > Chess is not a popular spectator sport. ESPN made poker entertaining. I wish they would try with Chess. I would watch something with good commentators explaining the game as it unfolded.
oldmanjay 11y ago
You know what else is boring? Comments of the form "I don't understand something, and my ignorance should be compelling"
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  To be fair, that's a non-insignificant amount of HN comments. People should come here with far more curiosity and far less arrogance than they do.
- Touche 11y ago
  I post comments like that to be educated. Some have already offered explanations, so I'm happy to get your downvote if it means learning something.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Think about your question: "I don't understand why it exists as a popular sport anyways, it's 5 seconds of action followed by 30 seconds of two guys talking about it. The average football game has 11 minutes of action[1]. Everything but the last ~8 minutes of the 4th quarter is boring. Yet Americans love it. I don't get it." better framed as a question like such: "I'm not quite sure I understand the American fascination with football. Can someone provide context?"
    - knorby 11y ago
      Except he did provide context as he cited an article with a genuine criticism. Your suggestion is in all ways a loss of information.
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    You did not. You posted that comment to make yourself look smugly superior to others.
    - samstave 11y ago
      Thats why I am awesome, because I don't ever make smug comments. You should upvote me for it.
mwfunk 11y ago
It's best understood as a turn-based strategy game with real-time elements during and between moves.
- PeCaN 11y ago
  It's like Total War but with big dudes, a ball, and a time control.
  - rhino369 11y ago
    Total war has time control. You obviously never tried the "Run your light calvary around the map until the attacker loses because the clock" trick.
logfromblammo 11y ago
Football is what usually happens between the three sets of the marching band concert. It keeps the crowd occupied, even if it is an inferior form of entertainment.~ I also never understood the appeal of professional football games, with no band playing there at all. It feels like the "spectacle" type of gladiatorial games--the re-enactments of the Battle of Wherever, with condemned criminals portraying the Foovians on one side, and slaves portraying the Barrites on the other. But instead of getting killed outright, the participants just get a very mild case of severe brain damage. And instead of non-stop action, they stand around planning their next stratagem, as though it were not essentially "push the other guy away, so our guy can run past him".
- sehr 11y ago
  Marching bands are by far the worst aspect of college & hs football in my opinion, almost more annoying then the music/fake forced chants they play during NBA games. Some people just enjoy the sport without all the ridiculous fanfare!
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    "De gustibus non est disputandum." ("Everybody has their own opinions." / "There's no accounting for taste.") Some people enjoy the game. Those who do not enjoy it should not be forced to pay for the stadium. I would even oppose using eminent domain to acquire a contiguous area of land large enough to build one, with the sole possible exception of Green Bay, Wisconsin, where the Packers are very nearly a municipal corporation due to their "ownership" structure (non-voting, non-dividend-paying, restricted-resale stocks don't count as ownership, in my opinion). Selling the naming rights to the stadium to the highest bidder is just twisting the knife in the back, really. This article is similar in character to economic retrospectives of cities that hosted Olympics competitions. The IOC always promises an instant boost to prosperity, but that never seems to materialize. I have been to Turner Field (formerly the primary 1996 Olympic stadium), and the surrounding area does not look very boosted (although other parts of Atlanta are admittedly much worse). The stadium is coming down in 2017, as a 20-year-old building is apparently no longer good enough for the Braves to play baseball in it. Their previous home at Atlanta-Fulton Cty Stadium only lasted 30 years. For reference purposes, Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are both more than 100 years old and still in use. Stadiums in Kansas City, LA, and Anaheim are pentagenarians. Milwaukee County Stadium made it to 50 before the Brewers traded up. Yankee Stadium retired at 85. Tiger Stadium lasted 87 years. Candlestick Park retired at 53. Memorial Stadium (Baltimore, 2nd) lasted 53 years. From a cursory examination of history, a city is much better off building its own smaller stadium, sized for basketball, hockey, and rock concerts, than one that can only reasonably be filled by MLB baseball, NFL football, Olympic track and field, club soccer (in Europe), and musical superstars. Offering public subsidy to a privately owned single-sport stadium strikes me as brain-damaged beyond all reasonable measure, especially when the sports franchise seeking to build it is currently leasing a publicly-owned facility.
epoch1970 11y ago
The social aspect can't be ignored. Football is typically held up as the quintessential American sport in many regions of the country. Those who don't proclaim their interest or love for it do so at the risk of being seen as outsiders and potentially treated as outcasts. This starts at a very early age for many Americans due to the close ties between the education systems and football programs. Starting while they're children, those who are capable of playing are often expected to play, and those who aren't capable are expected to participate as fans. This continues through to high school, college, and to the NFL. Even if the fans don't particularly like the game itself, they often like the social aspect of it, or just pretend to like to to avoid being stigmatized. Association football (soccer) and cricket play a similar role in other countries. They can be seen as a form of religion, in some sense.
- moheeb 11y ago
  I think you nailed it. "They can be seen as a form of religion, in some sense." In my family it was Sunday School with mom and then football with Grandpa and Dad. Football is kind of like drinking...even if you don't like it at some point it is easier to just pretend and fit in.
  - Thirdegree 11y ago
    And if you do it enough, you might end up liking it anyway.
    - lumpypua 11y ago
      Happened to me. I like drinking and (college) football, especially together, even though I can see the negative utility of both.
  - ansible 11y ago
    It also has something more fundamental than religion... it is tribalism. Us versus them. You get to be part of the accepted in-group, and get to hate the out-groups. That kind of need is wired deep in people's brains. Ideally, all this effort would be put towards a more productive end, such as rooting for your local FIRST robotics team.
sampo 11y ago
As someone who recently moved to the US, should I first try to learn about American football, or about baseball?
- sehr 11y ago
  Definitely football, it's more popular (unless you're in St. Louis). Baseball games are really fun to watch in person though, more so than football in my opinion. It's just an excuse to drink and shoot the shit while hearing a bat crack every once in a while, always a great night out Also checkout basketball, especially if you're in the bay.
  - derekp7 11y ago
    That's why I hear some people say that Wrigley Field is Chicago's largest bar, and it happens to have a game field in the middle of it.
    - mixmastamyk 11y ago
      They must have reasonable prices? Here on the west coast its probably now $15 per shitty light corporate American beer. It was $13 last time I went about 4 years ago. So, I couldn't imagine going just to have a few beers, in fact more likely to abstain on principle.
      - kelnos 11y ago
        Depends on where, I guess. AT&T Park (SF Giants) serves decent beer (Guinness, among other things) for either $11 or $12 (as of last fall). Still highway robbery, but better than $15 for piss water.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    I had a good time at the last baseball I went to (company event). Didn't even see a minute of baseball.
- realdlee 11y ago
ArkyBeagle 11y ago
Sorry - not gonna stop liking things you don't like :) Football and baseball are things to which people are inoculated when young. I suppose the same is true of basketball but I'm just not familiar with it beyond attempting to play it in a pickup fashion while in school. You'd think curling would be boring, but I've watched it a few times and there's a lot going on. And never mind golf, which I love to watch. It's been compared to watching grass grow. I can't argue. At least in the college game, there's the issue of "tempo", which has a tactical as well as (I'm sure) a desire to reduce that time between plays. "Tactical" because it puts pressure on the defense to assemble more quickly. It gets even worse - I like college ball, but the pros look to me like they just run their pattern and stop, where you might find a college quarterback that will improve most of a game.
serge2k 11y ago
I don't watch normally but I left the seahawks playoff games on in the background while I did other stuff. It's okay. Watching with other people is pretty good. You chat while the commentators are going on about whatever or they are playing yet another incessant commercial then you watch the play and go back to talking.

by Touche 11y ago

danharaj 11y ago

There's a lot of strategy between plays. Because the action isn't continuous it has a different flavor from a continuously played game like the other football. It's sort of a hybrid between a real-time game and a turn-based game, which is cool. I think it would be much more interesting if there were more time on the field, but i'm sure the NFL and their advertising partners love all that time that can be filled up with ads. I dislike the game because the players get horribly injured, either immediately, or decades later. The NFL is a company that makes money by encouraging degenerative brain disease in its employees.

Touche 11y ago
That doesn't explain the popularity, strategy is invisible to the viewer. Chess is not a popular spectator sport.
- danharaj 11y ago
  It's not invisible. i'm not a serious sports fan, but when i'm around them they notice a great deal more detail than i do. a seasoned football fan can identify a play rather quickly. they know the styles and predispositions of their favorite players and coaches very well. they understand how field conditions and the state of the game influence the decisions made. it's rather fun to watch with a knowledgeable friend. having some sort of depth is required for popularity, even if it is not sufficient. chess is not a popular sport for other reasons, probably the lack of money and the sheer marathon that is a high level game. soccer has been gaining ground in the US because moneyed interests have been pushing the sport and trying to build the franchises for years. the level of investment required for a nationally popular sport is steep. no one's going to put that money into chess any time soon. like all things in our world, capital is often the difference between "is" and "isn't", but other ingredients are also required.
- jtuente 11y ago
  The strategy is far from invisible to an informed viewer; many viewers are very vocal of their opinions of the topic, too. The reason chess isn't a popular spectator sport has more to do with the fact that all of the moves are very clearly defined, bishop moves at angles; knight moves in L's, and has no correlation to feats of extreme athleticism, the knight can't suddenly move into an unexpected direction.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  There's strategy, and in a broadcast (as opposed to attending a live event), there are commentators to explain it to the average viewer. There are also amazingly spectacular plays, which you can appreciate whether or not you understand the strategy. That doesn't explain why it's more popular than, say, basketball, though...
  - jowiar 11y ago
    The problem with basketball as a spectator sport is that the marginal importance of any particular small piece of the game is small, and predictable. There may be awesome feats of athleticism and skill, but they really don't count for a lot, and by the end of the game, you could remove any one (or more) of them and the result of the game would have been the same. When you think about what makes, say, movies exciting, it's plot twists. And a basketball game has a very high change of having none -- the better team plays a bit better than the lesser team, and at the end of the game, they have a few more points. For football, baseball, hockey, and soccer, there are far more plot twists.
    - derekp7 11y ago
      Basketball gets its popularity from the fact that it is really easy for people to play it themselves (every recess in school has a few hoops in use continuously, and every other driveway has a hoop in it or above the garage).
      - jowiar 11y ago
        And every city has plenty of public courts. Soccer in the US has always been more of an organized sport and less of a street/pickup sport. It's more "something you haul the suburban kids to" than "toss a couple objects on the ground, call them a goal, and kick the ball at it". Baseball used to be a street sport here, but really isn't anymore (but it is in the Caribbean).
    - jimbokun 11y ago
      I actually think the experience of watching basketball, hockey, and soccer are more similar to each other in having fast paced, flowing action. Football and baseball are more punctuated, stop-start action.
- brandonmenc 11y ago
  > explain the popularity Besides the hits, 1. The short season You're always left wanting more. There's an order of magnitude fewer NFL games compared to the NBA, MLB, or NHL. And it's convenient - you can follow pro football and have most of the year off and, during the season, most of the week off. 2. The action Yeah, the ball is only in play for a few minutes, but there are 60-70 plays per game - that's a lot of punctuated action compared to the snail's pace of baseball or the constant back and forth of the other sports. And the plays are more likely to be do-or-die drive or game changers than in the other sports. It's way more edge-of-your-seat. Those two features are somewhat "drug-like," imo.
  - flying_kangaroo 11y ago
    > There's an order of magnitude fewer NFL games compared to the NBA, MLB, or NHL Strongly agree. I've tried many a time to 'get into' baseball, but every day is just way too much. It also tends to increase the importance of each individual game, which (ignoring the quasi-nihilistic "it's just a sport, man") is another reason for the popularity.
- matwood 11y ago
  > Chess is not a popular spectator sport. ESPN made poker entertaining. I wish they would try with Chess. I would watch something with good commentators explaining the game as it unfolded.

oldmanjay 11y ago

You know what else is boring? Comments of the form "I don't understand something, and my ignorance should be compelling"

toomuchtodo 11y ago
To be fair, that's a non-insignificant amount of HN comments. People should come here with far more curiosity and far less arrogance than they do.
Touche 11y ago
I post comments like that to be educated. Some have already offered explanations, so I'm happy to get your downvote if it means learning something.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Think about your question: "I don't understand why it exists as a popular sport anyways, it's 5 seconds of action followed by 30 seconds of two guys talking about it. The average football game has 11 minutes of action[1]. Everything but the last ~8 minutes of the 4th quarter is boring. Yet Americans love it. I don't get it." better framed as a question like such: "I'm not quite sure I understand the American fascination with football. Can someone provide context?"
  - knorby 11y ago
    Except he did provide context as he cited an article with a genuine criticism. Your suggestion is in all ways a loss of information.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  You did not. You posted that comment to make yourself look smugly superior to others.
  - samstave 11y ago
    Thats why I am awesome, because I don't ever make smug comments. You should upvote me for it.

mwfunk 11y ago

It's best understood as a turn-based strategy game with real-time elements during and between moves.

PeCaN 11y ago
It's like Total War but with big dudes, a ball, and a time control.
- rhino369 11y ago
  Total war has time control. You obviously never tried the "Run your light calvary around the map until the attacker loses because the clock" trick.

logfromblammo 11y ago

Football is what usually happens between the three sets of the marching band concert. It keeps the crowd occupied, even if it is an inferior form of entertainment.~ I also never understood the appeal of professional football games, with no band playing there at all. It feels like the "spectacle" type of gladiatorial games--the re-enactments of the Battle of Wherever, with condemned criminals portraying the Foovians on one side, and slaves portraying the Barrites on the other. But instead of getting killed outright, the participants just get a very mild case of severe brain damage. And instead of non-stop action, they stand around planning their next stratagem, as though it were not essentially "push the other guy away, so our guy can run past him".

sehr 11y ago
Marching bands are by far the worst aspect of college & hs football in my opinion, almost more annoying then the music/fake forced chants they play during NBA games. Some people just enjoy the sport without all the ridiculous fanfare!
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  "De gustibus non est disputandum." ("Everybody has their own opinions." / "There's no accounting for taste.") Some people enjoy the game. Those who do not enjoy it should not be forced to pay for the stadium. I would even oppose using eminent domain to acquire a contiguous area of land large enough to build one, with the sole possible exception of Green Bay, Wisconsin, where the Packers are very nearly a municipal corporation due to their "ownership" structure (non-voting, non-dividend-paying, restricted-resale stocks don't count as ownership, in my opinion). Selling the naming rights to the stadium to the highest bidder is just twisting the knife in the back, really. This article is similar in character to economic retrospectives of cities that hosted Olympics competitions. The IOC always promises an instant boost to prosperity, but that never seems to materialize. I have been to Turner Field (formerly the primary 1996 Olympic stadium), and the surrounding area does not look very boosted (although other parts of Atlanta are admittedly much worse). The stadium is coming down in 2017, as a 20-year-old building is apparently no longer good enough for the Braves to play baseball in it. Their previous home at Atlanta-Fulton Cty Stadium only lasted 30 years. For reference purposes, Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are both more than 100 years old and still in use. Stadiums in Kansas City, LA, and Anaheim are pentagenarians. Milwaukee County Stadium made it to 50 before the Brewers traded up. Yankee Stadium retired at 85. Tiger Stadium lasted 87 years. Candlestick Park retired at 53. Memorial Stadium (Baltimore, 2nd) lasted 53 years. From a cursory examination of history, a city is much better off building its own smaller stadium, sized for basketball, hockey, and rock concerts, than one that can only reasonably be filled by MLB baseball, NFL football, Olympic track and field, club soccer (in Europe), and musical superstars. Offering public subsidy to a privately owned single-sport stadium strikes me as brain-damaged beyond all reasonable measure, especially when the sports franchise seeking to build it is currently leasing a publicly-owned facility.

epoch1970 11y ago

The social aspect can't be ignored. Football is typically held up as the quintessential American sport in many regions of the country. Those who don't proclaim their interest or love for it do so at the risk of being seen as outsiders and potentially treated as outcasts. This starts at a very early age for many Americans due to the close ties between the education systems and football programs. Starting while they're children, those who are capable of playing are often expected to play, and those who aren't capable are expected to participate as fans. This continues through to high school, college, and to the NFL. Even if the fans don't particularly like the game itself, they often like the social aspect of it, or just pretend to like to to avoid being stigmatized. Association football (soccer) and cricket play a similar role in other countries. They can be seen as a form of religion, in some sense.

moheeb 11y ago
I think you nailed it. "They can be seen as a form of religion, in some sense." In my family it was Sunday School with mom and then football with Grandpa and Dad. Football is kind of like drinking...even if you don't like it at some point it is easier to just pretend and fit in.
- Thirdegree 11y ago
  And if you do it enough, you might end up liking it anyway.
  - lumpypua 11y ago
    Happened to me. I like drinking and (college) football, especially together, even though I can see the negative utility of both.
- ansible 11y ago
  It also has something more fundamental than religion... it is tribalism. Us versus them. You get to be part of the accepted in-group, and get to hate the out-groups. That kind of need is wired deep in people's brains. Ideally, all this effort would be put towards a more productive end, such as rooting for your local FIRST robotics team.

sampo 11y ago

As someone who recently moved to the US, should I first try to learn about American football, or about baseball?

sehr 11y ago
Definitely football, it's more popular (unless you're in St. Louis). Baseball games are really fun to watch in person though, more so than football in my opinion. It's just an excuse to drink and shoot the shit while hearing a bat crack every once in a while, always a great night out Also checkout basketball, especially if you're in the bay.
- derekp7 11y ago
  That's why I hear some people say that Wrigley Field is Chicago's largest bar, and it happens to have a game field in the middle of it.
  - mixmastamyk 11y ago
    They must have reasonable prices? Here on the west coast its probably now $15 per shitty light corporate American beer. It was $13 last time I went about 4 years ago. So, I couldn't imagine going just to have a few beers, in fact more likely to abstain on principle.
    - kelnos 11y ago
      Depends on where, I guess. AT&T Park (SF Giants) serves decent beer (Guinness, among other things) for either $11 or $12 (as of last fall). Still highway robbery, but better than $15 for piss water.
- serge2k 11y ago
  I had a good time at the last baseball I went to (company event). Didn't even see a minute of baseball.
realdlee 11y ago

ArkyBeagle 11y ago

Sorry - not gonna stop liking things you don't like :) Football and baseball are things to which people are inoculated when young. I suppose the same is true of basketball but I'm just not familiar with it beyond attempting to play it in a pickup fashion while in school. You'd think curling would be boring, but I've watched it a few times and there's a lot going on. And never mind golf, which I love to watch. It's been compared to watching grass grow. I can't argue. At least in the college game, there's the issue of "tempo", which has a tactical as well as (I'm sure) a desire to reduce that time between plays. "Tactical" because it puts pressure on the defense to assemble more quickly. It gets even worse - I like college ball, but the pros look to me like they just run their pattern and stop, where you might find a college quarterback that will improve most of a game.

serge2k 11y ago

I don't watch normally but I left the seahawks playoff games on in the background while I did other stuff. It's okay. Watching with other people is pretty good. You chat while the commentators are going on about whatever or they are playing yet another incessant commercial then you watch the play and go back to talking.