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Netflix to block proxy access to content not available locally
- msravi 11y agoHow are they going to do this? I mean, anyone could spin up a machine located in the US within a few minutes - how would they know?
- knotty66 11y agoThey'll block known VPN/Proxy endpoints I guess. I bet spinning up your own proxy/VPN will still work. Although they might block entire networks like EC2 and DigitalOcean too.
- solutionyogi 11y agoExactly. Blocking down known VPN/Proxy endpoints gets them 99% mileage with minimal effort. I don't think they are looking for 100% coverage here.
- CaptSpify 11y agoHonestly, I doubt they even really care. This is probably just to keep from getting screwed over in some licensing deal. "Look, we really tried hard to stop this, I guess those internet-guys are just too good at getting around the system. Oh well."
- amalag 11y agoThe far easier method is with DNS services, I wonder if it will affect those too or this is just an official announcement and they will not do anything drastic.
- lorenzhs 11y agoWell those work by resolving some domains (like netflix.com) to their own tunnel endpoints, which then tunnel to a different country. They can then just block the endpoints' IPs. It's actually not that hard to set up, I did it a couple of years ago to tunnel youtube (which is pretty crippled for music in Germany) and some other services not available outside of the US to a server in the US. The DNS server was in Germany to keep latency low.
- amalag 11y agoYes I see what you mean, they have their own servers to proxy but then are able to hand off the actual video traffic. So presumably Netflix knows which are the Getflix and other service tunnel endpoints. I wonder if it will escalate with Getflix and other providers attempting to bypass such blocks.
- dimillian 11y agoProbably by blocking only most known Ips from most known proxies/vpn first. I think if you're tunnelling from your own server, you'll be fine.
- yid 11y agoMaxmind offers Proxy Detection based on IPs; presumably they have the entire AWS/Google/Azure netblocks listed in there. https://www.maxmind.com/en/proxy-detection-service https://www.maxmind.com/en/proxy-detection-service Still not impossible, just a bit harder when that $5 DO droplet is no longer good enough to proxy Netflix through.
- HeadlessChild 11y agoArgh. I have just that, a $5 DO droplet located in New York (I live in Sweden) that runs a Squid3 web proxy. I use this for Squid3 to not be detected as a proxy: via off forwarded_for off request_header_access Allow allow all request_header_access Authorization allow all request_header_access WWW-Authenticate allow all request_header_access Proxy-Authorization allow all request_header_access Proxy-Authenticate allow all request_header_access Cache-Control allow all request_header_access Content-Encoding allow all request_header_access Content-Length allow all request_header_access Content-Type allow all request_header_access Date allow all request_header_access Expires allow all request_header_access Host allow all request_header_access If-Modified-Since allow all request_header_access Last-Modified allow all request_header_access Location allow all request_header_access Pragma allow all request_header_access Accept allow all request_header_access Accept-Charset allow all request_header_access Accept-Encoding allow all request_header_access Accept-Language allow all request_header_access Content-Language allow all request_header_access Mime-Version allow all request_header_access Retry-After allow all request_header_access Title allow all request_header_access Connection allow all request_header_access Proxy-Connection allow all request_header_access User-Agent allow all request_header_access Cookie allow all request_header_access All deny all
- yid 11y agoIf the entire DO netblock is in the proxy block list, then your headers aren't going to do much.
- dangrossman 11y agoThey don't need to know. They can show you the content that corresponds to the country matching your billing information, regardless of your IP address. It doesn't say they're going to block proxies, only that you won't be able to use proxies to watch content not available in your country.
- JTon 11y agoI don't believe the content distribution rights operate that way. I think what you can see depends on where you are physically located. Not where you are from.
- jmreid 11y agoThe iTunes store currently works based on your billing information.
- jcomis 11y agoSpotify is also based on billing address
- rhino369 11y agoThey could just only play video when the IP address location and billing country match. You wouldn't catch every proxy user, but it would prevent the widespread usage.
- jsprogrammer 11y agoAre accounts transferrable? What if if I travel to the US and use my account there? Would I still be discriminated against, on the basis of my billing country?
- wvenable 11y agoThat would be better; then I could just get a US netflix account using US billing information (easy to get) and then watch all the US content I want.
- vruiz 11y agoIf they are serious, they could tie your account to your country, so when you are in "another country", either virtually or physically, you could only watch things available in both you account's country and your access country.
- zorked 11y ago... and for $40/mo + $5/hour you can watch any movie while traveling with Netflix's special roaming plan!
- perlpimp 11y agoDo whois on ip address, there are addresses that belong to data centers, so between that an manually compiling a list of netmasks belonging to various proxy providers you can get something going. Not without failure I guess.
- JTon 11y agoReuters may be botching up terminology. Perhaps Netflix closing the door on regional workarounds using DNS redirects. Failing that, Netflix may block service to IP subsets owned by popular Proxy services only. If you set up a proxy using your own machine or a smaller service, it may still work.
- logfromblammo 11y agoMore importantly, how are they to know what country lies on the other end of the tunnel, so that they could determine what is not available locally there? I think this is a bit of hand-waving to placate certain rights holders. If subscribers who VPN from the U.S. to the U.S.--perhaps for privacy purposes--are affected, and they make enough noise, Netflix will likely back off to "well, at least we tried" intensity.
- Sephiroth87 11y agoThey don't need to, one of the VPNs i use has been already blocked, I can see the content list just the same, but it just won't play
- logfromblammo 11y agoIf they are not providing you with the service that you have paid them to provide, you should contact customer service and request that the problem be fixed, and that you be refunded for the duration of the failure. IP addresses do not have a fixed physical location or a fixed purpose. They are packet routing instructions, period.
- miander 11y agoThis is a legitimate question that many people reading the comments might be wondering. Why is it being downvoted?
- miander 11y agoThis is a legitimate question that many people reading the comments might be wondering. Why is it being downvoted?
- michaelt 11y agoNetflix doesn't need to block 100% of proxies - they just need blocking that's good enough that people licensing content to them won't sue or withdraw their content. Figuring out the IP addresses used by free and commercial proxies shouldn't be too hard - they just need to create some test accounts, sign up for the proxy services, then check what IP addresses their test accounts appeared to connect from. That'll block anyone who isn't technical enough to set up their own server. If they're feeling enthusiastic enough, they could go further - for example blocking IP ranges used by big hosting providers and seedbox providers; and monitor the main forums and subreddits to learn about any new bypasses they need to clamp down on.
- lukeschlather 11y agoNetflix has its own content is increasingly behaving like a member of the MPAA. (Pushing DRM, blocking proxies, etc.)
- amalag 11y agoI can see someone open sourcing their proxy software which anyone can run on a cloud provider or even spin up on demand.
- wooger 11y agoWhat do you think is running the existing proxy services? There are many open source proxy tools that can do the job fine, not to mention the even simpler openssh or OpenVPN.
- noelsusman 11y agoThat already exists. You could spin up a VPS on any provider and install OpenVPN. If you're technical enough to spin up a VPS then you can get this up and running in 5 minutes.
- aianus 11y agohttps://hub.docker.com/r/kylemanna/openvpn/ https://hub.docker.com/r/kylemanna/openvpn/ Knock yourself out :)
- xur17 11y agoI'm guessing they are going to use a service that provides a list of proxy ips, and block those. It won't be complete, but it will cover the vast majority. Someone should build a p2p proxy system specifically for Netflix. It would be pretty hard to block, and the risk for hosts would be low if it was limited to netflix ips only.
- rsync 11y ago"How are they going to do this? I mean, anyone could spin up a machine located in the US within a few minutes - how would they know?" They can't. They can identify commercial proxy providers and the IP blocks they utilize and block them. Maybe they can auto-identify subnets based on their ARIN registration text ... it's still just a wack-a-mole process. If you own your own IP space in the US that you use for your own purposes, it will presumably work forever. Or, put another way, if you are truly a peer on the Internet, you can continue to do the things it was meant for. If not, you're just a media consumer.
- cmdrfred 11y agoDigitalocean + openVPN = $5/month Netflix proxy. If they discover the IP address, shut it down and spin up another VM.
- Florin_Andrei 11y agoIf I was a tech at Netflix tasked with blocking proxies, the entire set of Digital Ocean IP blocks would rank very high on the list of suspects.
- bluedino 11y agoSites such as Walmart already block my access when using my server at LARGE_VPS_PROVIDER
- theseatoms 11y agoWhy doesn't Netflix make their own original content available globally (to subscribers)? I had assumed that terms of licensing agreements were what prevented global access to most content.
- lgbr 11y agoBecause that content was also licensed by Netflix to other companies. House of Cards, for example, was licensed to companies in Australia, New Zealand, Germany, India, and others before Netflix's arrival there, and when Netflix did arrive in those places, those licensing agreements were still in place, meaning Netflix couldn't make its own content available in those countries.
- theseatoms 11y agoOh ok. So they're more interested in fulfilling the terms of those agreements than in actually preventing people from watching their shows.
- publicfig 11y agoWell, licensing is a legal agreement so there's really no way around that.
- JoblessWonder 11y agoThis is basically the only reason they are cracking down at all. I'm sure Netflix doesn't care, but if the rights holders see them as being "soft" on proxy use then they might charge more or sue. They will block what is easy to block so they can point and say "hey look, we tried!"
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- seanp2k2 11y agoSome of it is licensed: http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/netflix-to-own-original-series/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/netflix-to-own-original-...
- jrnkntl 11y ago"... to access Netflix's popular shows such as "House of cards" and "Orange is the new black" ..." Well, these series should be the ones that you should NOT need to resort to proxies for, since they're Netflix owned content. I wonder if Smart DNS proxy servers[1] will also be affected... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_DNS_proxy_server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_DNS_proxy_server
- golergka 11y ago> Well, these series should be the ones that you should NOT need to resort to proxies for, since they're Netflix owned content. Except Netflix offered exclusive licenses for them to some local tv networks, as far as I understand.
- levesque 11y agoAgain the problem is cable TV. Hope it dies a quick death so we can move on to more modern channels of distribution.
- izacus 11y agoSo instead of cable TV I'll only be watching "This service is not available in your country" text on my home set? :P
- s73v3r 11y agoWhy do you feel so entitled to the work of others?
- bbradley406 11y agoA customer in some countries (USA, major EU countries, etc) is entitled to the ability to pay for certain content. Why shouldn't GP be entitled to the same thing? Is their money and advertising-eyeball-hours worth less? This isn't to say regional differences don't exist (you can't gift games between some countries on Steam due to currency / local market prices). When you want to pay for content though, and the option is just not there, I think entitlement is the wrong word.
- oconnore 11y agoWhy do media companies block entire countries? Selling an apple to someone in Ireland is the same profit as selling to an American, yes?
- swozey 11y agoNo, in different countries different publishers own (the same) content. They have to license the media from the country-specific publishers. I don't know the logic as to why Netflix published content isn't available worldwide, though. Maybe they have non-competes or something.
- rhino369 11y agoNetflix doesn't own all of its Netflix published content. Sony owns House of Cards. Lionsgate owns Orange is the New Black. Netflix's early tv productions deals were similar to how regular TV purchased content. You custom order the show, but you only get "first run" rights. The production company keeps the rights to international markets and even re-run rights. In the USA, you can buy House of Cards episodes from Comcast and Netflix doesn't get a penny for it. This is unlike, say HBO, which owns control control of the content they create.
- golergka 11y agoBecause media companies didn't pay for these apples in Ireland to being with. The original authors of content sold these apples to Netflix to sell in America, but sold it to other local companies in Ireland, because these other local companies offered them a better deal than Netflix. By not detecting proxies, Netflix essentially sold something they didn't purchase in the first place.
- moftz 11y agoStudios may already have setup distribution rights to other media companies in those countries. Universal Studios may give Netflix the Indiana Jones series for the US but Universal already has a distribution agreement with Company X in the UK for those films. They can't give Netflix UK the rights to distribute because there is probably a contract term that says Universal won't undermine Company X's distribution rights. Thus, Universal Studios has a contract term with Netflix US to block any other countries from watching those films otherwise someone is going to get in trouble. Universal Studios would need negotiate a new contract with Company X and take away their exclusive rights and give Netflix UK digital rights.
- distances 11y agoThe content is one thing, but I could live with country based restrictions. What I'm afraid is the availability of subtitles. I'm from a country in Northern Europe and live in a country in Central Europe. I want my movies and series without dubbing, and with English subtitles. US Netflix has been a perfect solution for this.
- r3m6 11y agoSame here. I switched from Amazon Prime to NetFlix for the better subtitles. NetFlix Germany is already better than Amazon Germany, but NetFlix USA is the best. I wonder why it is sooo hard to provide original subtitles and original language for all movies. Is that also a licensing issue or just laziness?
- lucaspiller 11y agoAs I understand the subtitles are usually licensed from different people than the producers of the shows, so yes it is probably licensing issues too. As an example on Netflix Italy you can watch Lie To Me with Italian or English audio, but the subtitles are only available in Italian. If you switch to a UK proxy you get English subtitles...
- kuschku 11y ago> Is that also a licensing issue or just laziness? The subtitles are licensed from a different company than the dubs, which are licensed from a different company than the original show. And each of these companies has exclusive deals, sometimes even allowing only one TV channel to show one show at all.
- hkdobrev 11y agoThe link of the article could be replaced with http://www.reuters.com/article/netflix-launch-idINKCN0US23420160114?irpc=932 http://www.reuters.com/article/netflix-launch-idINKCN0US2342... as it is the canonical desktop version with more info.
- merlincorey 11y agoI couldn't find any extra information on that page.
- thenipper 11y agoOh boy. I work for an NGO that has expats all over the globe. This is definitely going to bum some folks out...
- izacus 11y agoWell, considering the fact that on US Netflix I can access 6000 titles and local Netflix doesn't even have 500 (and most of them aren't anything I'm interested in) that pretty much just means I'll stop paying the subscription :/ Since there's pretty much no other source of most of the shows locally except for buying extremely expensive BluRays I guess people will just revert to torrenting.
- bmelton 11y ago> I guess people will just revert to torrenting Or, maybe not watching those shows?
- izacus 11y agoI somehow doubt you'll be able to persuade the young population to stop watching any shows (no other streaming services are available due to small size of the country here) or to start watching Mexican soap operas on broadcast TV. Especially when torrents are readily available in HD and fiber internet connection rather widely available. Also since most of the streaming licensing deals kinda forget about most EU countries except the 5 biggest ones, the sympathies towards the copyright holders are kinda running low. You can show a middle finger to people in a country so many times before they stop caring about your copyright licensing deals.
- bmelton 11y agoI doubt it too, but I'm willing to waste the karma on putting it forth as a valid alternative. I don't know when everybody got so entitled that they were willing to go through whatever means necessary to get access to content otherwise unavailable to them, but it boggles my mind how comfortably everybody seems able to justify it.
- JupiterMoon 11y agoSo you suggest that people in smaller countries should just shut up and accept that they are second class citizens in the modern world? These are people that are very able and very willing to pay for content -- they just have no way to do so.
- tibbydude 11y agoI will just cancel my account. I use a proxy service as the South Africa content library is piss poor , no use saying you are available in the country if you can only carry a small selection. Naspers owns the satellite tv market here and they launched a streaming service months before Netflix arrived and signed up all the good stuff.
- johanneskanybal 11y agoHello popcorn time and torrents in general, I really gave it a fair go to pay for content.
- rhino369 11y agoIf you are using a proxy you weren't really paying for content in the first place because Netflix didn't have the right to sell it to you.
- CaptSpify 11y agoSo the money never left his account? Interesting!
- rhino369 11y agoYou are paying Netflix for different content. It's like renting a room at Motel6 and walking into a Hilton and sleeping there instead. Sure you paid, but you didn't pay for that Hilton room.
- KMag 11y agoFrom a different prospective, he's willing to pay for content in his area. By refusing Netflix the rights to sell the content in his area, the rights holders are indirectly refusing to sell him the content. He offered them the money, but now it goes to someone else. By showing the money is there in his market, he does encourage the rights holders to allow Netflix to sell in his market. I understand other entities likely hold the rights in his area than the ones allowing Netflix to sell content in the US. Analogies only go so far, but it's more like he tried to pay for a Hilton room in Elbonia, and Hilton said "No f'ing way we allow franchises in Elbonia", so he paid for a Motel6 and then went and slept for free in an abandoned building where someone had illegally written Hilton above the door. Yes, Hilton's intellectual property rights are being violated, but he's not incurring direct costs upon Hilton, and he did give first offer to Hilton. Hilton is losing opportunity cost, but it's hard to blame the person who tried to pay them.
- otterley 11y agoNetflix's announcement: https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/evolving-proxy-detection-as-a-global-service https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/evolving-proxy-det... > Some members use proxies or “unblockers” to access titles available outside their territory. To address this, we employ the same or similar measures other firms do. This technology continues to evolve and we are evolving with it. That means in coming weeks, those using proxies and unblockers will only be able to access the service in the country where they currently are. We are confident this change won’t impact members not using proxies.
- tehwebguy 11y agoWhen Netflix made the whole "Netflix is Available Around the World" post at first I thought they had some incredible IP agreements that allowed them to finally "go global" for relax but really they just mean that they have have some level of service in all of those countries.
- noir_lord 11y ago> We are confident this change won’t impact members not using proxies. Will affect Netflix's bottom line, I prefer films to series (I don't have time for 22 1hr episodes but a good film now and then was worth the subscription) but Netflix UK is shit frankly, the only reason I haven't bothered to VPN into the US is because I can't be bothered (I actually watch more tech talks on the media PC/TV than I do anything else at this point - Code Mesh videos are awesome).
- ape4 11y agoIn other news, proxy services announce new sneaky detection avoidance mechanisms.
- ryandrake 11y agoIf I went back 25 years or so and showed my younger self the Internet of today, what would probably surprise me the most is how stubbornly we've clinged to political borders and the extent to which we've tried to graft them onto a mostly border-less computer network. I was pretty convinced back then that the internet would help to blur the lines between States, but it appears that the opposite has happened.
- izacus 11y agoYeah, funny how I'm allowed to order a DVD from US or Germany, while at the same time I'm forbidden from paying to watch that show from a German or US streaming service just because I live a bit to the south.
- derrickdirge 11y agoSorry, but there's profit to be had.
- izacus 11y agoThis is actually what surprises me - what profit is there to be had if they don't allow me to give them euros? :)
- Vraxx 11y agoThe licensing deals that can be made with local broadcasters. They are making profits, just not from you. Supposedly if you wanted to watch it legally you would pay for whatever service is allowed to legally broadcast the content to you. For reference I believe this to be stupid, but that's where this fabled profit lies.
- rhino369 11y agoThe reason for this is the technical difference between streaming and playing a DVD. Transporting a DVD isn't copyright infringement. Streaming always requires a license because it involves making a copy. Netflix actually built itself on the fact that you can send DVDs wherever you want.
- jo909 11y agoI often switch countries via VPN multiple times a day to access certain shows or movies, and thus had access to a really large library. This fulfilled 99% of my video entertainment needs, and piracy was generally no longer required. I even changed my habits and no longer need to watch everything new ASAP, but now I can wait until it is available somewhere in the world via Netflix. I'm not sure if that is true but I always felt that by using Netflix, even if it was somewhat fraudulent in the "wrong" country, the content owner did get their few pennies "from me" for my view.
- frogpelt 11y agoCould they could get around this by charging a proxy fee? I don't know because I don't use Netflix. Would any of you who currently pay for Netflix, pay a little more to be able to access it through a proxy?
- s73v3r 11y agoNo, because part of the reason for the crackdown is due to the content creators. It's not Netflix not wanting to serve people who are using proxies.
- bobby_9x 11y agoIt's interesting because Netflix is a parallel to the US TV networks in the 80s. I remember when Fox was an up and coming network. They had (at the time) edgy content like 'Married with Children', to get more viewers..and now have corporate drivel like 'American Idol'. Netflix is doing the same thing. They create their own content with nudity, swearing, and edgy content to get what the regular networks aren't really doing (and to get the youth interested). When they get enough market share, it will only be a matter of time before they become the thing they tried so hard to replace: a monopoly with fading and corporate-friendly content. I understand why they are trying to block proxies, but how can they even tell that I'm tunneling through SSH?
- drather19 11y agoIt's interesting that you posit that the ultimate endgame is "corporate-friendly content". I was curious why you think that content is heading that way? If anything, I'd argue that globalizing Netflix combined with stronger control over their own original content enables Netflix to move towards an endgame where lots of niche audiences are served (rather than only mass markets). At CES, Ted Sarandos (VP of Content) mentioned that traditional TV had to hit home runs all the time, while Netflix can score with singles, double, etc. Why would Netflix jeopardize this advantage and hop in the time machine to become an outdated TV company? It sucks that House of Cards and some of the older original content (particularly the more popular titles) aren't globally available, yet, but I believe (also from the CES talk), this was done because Netflix couldn't afford the financial risk at the time (and/or simply could not afford the global rights) for some of these shows. More recent/upcoming shows are licensed globally, so there's an apparent effort to ensure that Netflix moves to having a single global catalog. This obviously takes time, though, as the whole original content engine starts to ramp and new licensing deals are struck.
- bobby_9x 11y ago"It's interesting that you posit that the ultimate endgame is "corporate-friendly content". I was curious why you think that content is heading that way?" Every company I've seen eventually goes this way. When a corporation becomes large enough, they start answering to special interest groups on the left/right and self-censoring content as to not tarnish the reputation of investors or lose valuable market share. "If anything, I'd argue that globalizing Netflix combined with stronger control over their own original content enables Netflix to move towards an endgame where lots of niche audiences are served (rather than only mass markets). At CES, Ted Sarandos (VP of Content) mentioned that traditional TV had to hit home runs all the time, while Netflix can score with singles, double, etc. Why would Netflix jeopardize this advantage and hop in the time machine to become an outdated TV company?" I hope you're right. So far, they are copying the cable company strategy: license older content to get the viewers and then eventually create your own content to make more money. It's a pretty good business strategy, if you can pull it off. When the Syfy (I actually hate this name) channel first came out, it was all old episodes of Quantum leap, Star Trek, and lost in space. They slowly built their own content over the years and now pretty much only have original content. It's also tends to happen with monopolies (if this ever happens to Netflix). Right now, they are taking tons of chances and it's hit/miss (which means some fantastic content for customers). When you are on top, your strategy changes to what has worked. You don't want to lose market share, which means taking less chances. You aren't desperately trying to gain market share, you are now holding onto it. So, we might still see cool content, but it won't be as groundbreaking or as often. I feel like this eventually gets watered down enough, and big money/advertisers get involved, and the cycle repeats. I was an avid XM radio fan from the beginning. Many of the shock-jocks were allowed to say and do pretty much anything. After the big merger, it's now a shell of what it once was (the same strategy as the radio industry. If you compare the jocks of the 90s and today, it's a much different landscape). I absolutely love the explosion of podcasts in the last couple of years. It has given people the complete freedom of speech and has pretty much replaced what I loved about satellite radio. It reminds me why a free Internet is so important.
- noam87 11y agoMedia companies are so charitable... every day they are making it harder and harder for customers to pay for their content.
- jarnix 11y agoSo does it mean that Smartflix.io (I heard about it a few days ago, probably a solution for non-geek people) is dead already ?
- cocoggu 11y agoI just asked the Smartflix team about it and here are their answer: "Hello! Yes, we are aware about the recent statement that Netflix has published, and needless to say we are upset about it! However this does not mean the end of Smartflix. We are constantly able to outsmart these systems, and we will continue to do so for as long as humanly possible - so fear not!"
- s73v3r 11y agoJesus Christ you people are such entitled little snots. With attitudes like that, why should anyone pay for the hard work you do?
- izacus 11y agoI'd love to pay content providers for their content. They refuse to allow me to pay that money.
- s73v3r 11y agoAnd that entitles you to just take it? Again, why should anyone pay you for the work you do if that's what you believe?
- Freak_NL 11y agoI you do a job for me, and I don't pay you, then most people will agree that I really ought to pay you, and that you were wronged and that I am morally and legally obliged to mend my ways. You could convincingly explain that situation to a five-year old. Now consider the perspective of someone who has the disposable income to pay for digital content, and is willing to support content producers, but gets told that his $10 is not as good as the $10 from someone from another country with a similar standard of living. This is acceptable with physical goods, where transport and stock have to be taken into account, but with digital content and today's Internet speeds it is hard to garner any sympathy. So we are left with a choice: don't watch that show, or download it illegally and watch it. It is quite hard to convince people that by downloading the show illegally, you are now depriving a content owner in some foreign country of income by not being able to sell the local rights to that content for as good a price to a local distributor; if one can be found at all, who might sell that content to you in your country, or not, or only for a much higher price on DVD or BluRay, depending on their whim and abstract factors such as the local digital content market and the actions of competitors, and… Good luck convincing these new pirates of their moral wrong.
- dkonofalski 11y agoIf it's worth paying for, people will pay for it.
- ascendantlogic 11y agoI assume Netflix would happily stream everything everywhere but the content producers that license the content want strict control over who sees what when. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
- shmerl 11y ago> the content producers that license the content want strict control over who sees what when That's just stupid, or there is some very sick collusion and conflict of interests going on there. Normal creators should be interested in maximizing reach, not in limiting it. The more reach they get - the higher should be their profit.
- LukeB_UK 11y agoThey sell it to whoever pays them highest in a region
- shmerl 11y agoWhich undermines creators' reach if that middleman imposes on them some restrictions, such as not using other distributors which ends up in this geoblocking and such. In the competitive digital market, such middlemen with exclusivity restrictions should not exist. The fact that distributors have such a sway that they can impose limitations shows that competition is poor (i.e. there aren't enough distributors or they have very uneven influence).
- Sanddancer 11y agoContent producers tend to want to distribute their products for as wide an area as possible, which means needing to negotiate exclusivity rights with the providers of certain countries. As such, netflix can't negotiate with the content providers to gain rights, because the providers already sold those rights to other parties. Good streaming services are a relatively new phenomena, and as such, it's going to take a while for content providers to renegotiate deals to provide the content for the newer definition of what the widest area of distribution is. So, in short, blame the local distribution entities as much as the content producers for not providing streaming services for the content they have the right to broadcast at this point in time.
- JustSomeNobody 11y agoI would seriously HATE to be one of Netflix's content negotiators. That has to be one frustrating job trying to get content producers to realize they have been asleep for the past decade and the world has changed.
- shmerl 11y agoWhat a nonsense. They can as well try to forbid selling books in stores to foreigners. It's pointless and it's exactly the same level of stupidity idea. Let's see any store making such a policy and what kind of idiots they'll be taken for. Somehow Netflix and Co. think it's supposed to be normal in digital case?
- ChuckMcM 11y agoI wonder at what point Netflix as a distributor gets powerful enough to dictate terms to media providers rather than the other way around (like "This content will be playable in any country where Netflix offers service.")
- noir_lord 11y agoWhen they can offer the producing entity more money than they would get by sub-licensing, of course there is a convergence here, as Netflix eats into the existing TV market the revenue that the incumbents can pay will decline (unless they adapt) which will bring the price down of global licensing. In effect if Netflix and the cord cutting trend continues they'll gut the existing markets ability to pay, probably an economic term for that but I don't know it.
- mrmondo 11y agoThe Australian Netflix is missing so much content I think many people will cancel their plans because of this, myself included.
- 2muchcoffeeman 11y agoI don't think it's as bad as many people claim. The Australian Netflix has less content, but the US Netflix isn't that much better. I am not sure there is a single 'Good' region. I find myself switching between AU, US, UK and DE.
- exodust 11y agoIt is actually that bad in Australia. Even the Australian movie 'Mary and Max' is not available on the Australian Netflix but is on the US Netflix. What a joke. Countless old US TV shows like Malcolm in the Middle... not available on Australian Netflix. Where can I watch this in Australia? Nowhere? Great. Netflix subscription... CANCELLED. (as soon as proxy is blocked).
- frik 11y agoGood there is still the DVD/BlueRay market. No vendor lock-in, you own the goods and can resell it and you get some bonus content as well. And all in higher quality video and audio than any streaming service would offer. And DVB-S2 (satellite dish) offers access to thousends of cannels for free. And free video sites like Youtube and Vimeo.
- superuser2 11y agoNope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code
- frik 11y agoWhat's your point? You get most DVDs in most regions, even with optional translated subtitles and dubs, right? I could go on, but DVDs are a everyday articles and even your mum can buy and play them. And read the full Wikipedia article.
- superuser2 11y agoIf you want to watch (say) a German movie in German while in America, you need to import a DVD player set for the correct region. This is certainly possible and lots of ex-pats do it, but it's not as simple as "just buy the DVD."
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- frik 11y agoThe hard part is to get the movie, compare it to Netflix, right? If you already got the DVD, it's physically yours.
- superuser2 11y agoThe hard part is to get a DVD player that will actually play the movie. You can't walk into Best Buy in Iowa and get a European region-coded DVD player.
- serge2k 11y agoI hope they lose a ton of customers because of this.
- ohitsdom 11y agoWhat incentive does Netflix have in shutting down proxies/VPNs? I'm assuming content owners bring this up in negotiations, but I wouldn't think it'd be a big enough deal to push Netflix on. And how will Netflix accurately detect proxies/VPNs?
- alkonaut 11y agoContent owners notify them when they notice a vpn/proxy service that still works, and reminds Netflix that it is a violation of their agreement. Netflix blocks that particular service and the process repeats until the most common services are blocked.
- emergentcypher 11y agoThey don't even need to detect proxies. When you sign up for Netflix you give them billing information. If you are a Canadian customer, they can always show you Canadian Netflix no matter where you are. Otherwise, if they want to let you travel and take Netflix with you, they don't need to block 100% of proxies. They could probably automate detection of the most common proxies and VPN services. They care about the lazy 99% of people who won't go to great lengths to evade the system.
- ck2 11y agonetflix to TRY to block proxy access
- sharkweek 11y agoI think this is lip service directed at international content owners as they expand globally. They might try and shut down access for a few of the current big names, but we all know this won't be effective longer than people can stay one step ahead. Netflix doesn't actually care about people using VPNs as long as they're collecting $10 a month. In fact if Netflix could do away with regional content restrictions entirely, they'd massively benefit. This is one of the two biggest reasons that Netflix is pushing into original content, second to only third party content getting more expensive/exclusive. Netflix doesn't have to deal with any of this if they own the rights to the content streaming on the service.
- hartator 11y agoNetflix doesn't own the rights of House of Cards season 1-2 in France.
- cinquemb 11y agoI can understand why people pay for these type of services because they can be pretty convenient or satisfy the moral obligation du jour™, but for me, there always seems to be bullshit (read: artificial technical limitations) like this that pops up that makes me glad to have avoided the trap over the years and just torrent and hook up how ever I want to view it myself, that is unless actual enforcement could keep up with all the whims of media execs, which I don't see happening.
- chatmasta 11y agoNetflix has an obvious economic incentive to allow location spoofing. As long as you are paying them, they make money. I read a statistic that claimed Netflix had ~300k users in Australia, even though Netflix was technically "not available" in Australia. The content rights-holders are the ones dependent on the licensing restrictions. They're the ones who get upset when users circumvent those restrictions, not Netflix. Netflix faces two threats: 1) economic loss from foreign subscribers canceling their subscription because location spoofing no longer works, and 2) economic loss from rights-holders suing Netflix for a negligently insufficient blocking system. It is in Netflix's best interest to only haphazardly block spoofing, i.e. implement a weak technical system, as long as they can legally prove they are making a "best effort" to detect and block location spoofing. Of course, any semi-technical person knows that even a best effort will fail, because any sort of blocking system is an endless game of cat-and-mouse that Netflix can never win. Basically, yeah, they're "blocking" proxies, but ;-) ;-) ;-), they know you can still do it.
- malchow 11y agoDoesn't "blocking proxies" require Netflix to keep tabs on mercurial exit IP ranges for an ever-growing number of proxy or VPN services? It seems almost inevitable that they will enforce this rule only lazily.
- freshhawk 11y agoI'm guessing they'll just block the biggest advertised "Netflix unblocker" services. So the technically literate will be unaffected.
- roywiggins 11y agoThey could region-lock based on where your credit card billing address is if they really wanted to. Pay with a Canadian card, get Canadian Netflix wherever you are. Bit of a can of worms, but if they really really cared about people spoofing their location...
- 11y ago
- sergiotapia 11y agoPeople will probably just torrent things again. In the minds of the vast majority of people piracy is a victimless crime. These people have only stopped pirating because it's easier to pay and use Netflix. Guaranteed they'll go back to torrenting. Gabe Newell: "We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," he said. "If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable."
- takeda 11y agoThey (I'm talking about publishers I don't believe this benefits Netflix in any way) are doing this at the time when Popcorn Time is available, and when you can add SuperRepo to Kodi and stream pirated movies from 1Channel. I mean at this point the only reason people would want to use Netflix is feeling guilty about pirating. But how can you feel guilty when publisher is constantly trying to screw you over?
- LeoNatan25 11y agoNone of these streaming services offer quality streams. Terribly compressed "1080"p with some silly 2.1 downmix. There's more to Netflix than just "guilty". It's a genuine source for a relatively high quality material.
- ultramancool 11y agoYeah, if you want quality, use Usenet.
- LeoNatan25 11y agoUsenet has become a cesspool of removed content and malware infected fakes for the most part (some password protected private posters exist, I am aware). It has become too famous for its own good. Private torrent trackers is where it's for me.
- thieving_magpie 11y agoIs it possible this is just lip service? And that they'll maybe block a few of the highly popular VPN's and then turn a blind eye to everything else? Seems like a win-win for Netflix if so. They can claim they can faux pretend to care about VPN so as not to violate their contractual obligations.
- fapjacks 11y agoGood luck with that game of whack-a-mole, Netflix.
- emergentcypher 11y agoYeah, I'll be cancelling my Netflix account when this happens.
- vermooten 11y agoSmartDNS to the rescue? Also torrents. Especially torrents.
- chris_wot 11y agoGuess I'll be cancelling my subscription then.
- dbg31415 11y agohttps://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/288199968932630528 https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/288199968932630528 Not rocket science. I pay for Netflix, and cable, and Hulu, and Prime... and still I have to torrent things when Netflix or my dumbass cable company won't stream what I want to watch in 1080p (don't get me started on who is at fault, I don't care they're all cunts when they cut the quality). Or when they don't have a show fast enough, then I'll torrent. The moment the show is out it should be on Netflix and other services. Doesn't seem hard, just release the show to network TV and Netflix the same day -- curious why we still have these 6-12 month delays on shows coming to Netflix in 2016.
- zanethomas 11y agoUsers who are willing to pay for content, or may be paying for it monthly anyway, will simply resort to torrents. Good going Netflix.
- d3d3d3 11y agoI pirate 99% of my content while paying for Amazon/Netflix/Hulu/Cable because it's about a billion times easier to consolidate all my content in Plex and watch 1080p HD without worrying about a crappy internet connection. If they made it easy to offline the video I pay for and play it through my TV then I will consider doing otherwise but right now while I know what I am doing IS illegal it is legal enough for me to internally justify it. I pay for content but I reject their delivery methods.
- lenepp 11y agoImagine if you were blocked from reading an ebook because you crossed a border. Regional/national licensing of content is a rent-seeking anachronism. It's really sad to see Netflix cave on this. Incidentally, this is more or less contrary to what's happened with VAT in the EU, where if you buy digital content online, your are charged VAT for your home country if that's where your credit card is from and you choose it as your residing country in a purchase form - even if you are in another country when you make the purchase. In Europe, as I understand it, Netflix is going to be forced to make sure your home country content goes with you, even when you leave the country (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35051054 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35051054). I'm not sure if this means you will also be excluded from seeing content available in the country you've travelled to, if it's not available in your home country, but essentially it means you're sort of carrying around your nationality when you are accessing content online, just like you can now carry around your country's sales tax. It's the worst of all worlds. Imagine if e.g. companies allowed the Chinese government's restrictions to content to be imposed on its citizens outside china too. Yes, the EU looks like it's trying to get rid of some of the weird barriers to portability of content, but there's a chance this could go in the wrong direction. In any case, the whole system is artificial, profoundly inefficient and unethical in a number of ways.
- erikb 11y agoHow can they do that technically? Why is nobody speaking about that? I mean you can block some traffic from famous VPNs etc. And you may be able to see that some traffic is drastically lower than other traffic. But otherwise they should be unaware about my location, shouldn't they?
- nickonline 11y agoThe majority of people (myself included) are paying a company to provide the DNS service to by-pass the geolocking. Surely it's as simple for Netflix as blacklisting the range of IPs that the company runs off. They're not going to catch 100% of people like me but I'd warrant they'll get >90%
- erikb 11y agoThe thing about the IP blocking is that you need to know all these companies in the first place. It's quite a bothersome work, considering that people may not just want to use US proxies.
- eva1984 11y agoGood.
- xupybd 11y agoI think Netflix is not to blame here but the license holders. Just more evidence IP law is behind the times.
- abalashov 11y agoI lived abroad for several years and did OpenVPN from my tablet to US server of my own + default route over tunnel + NAT out other wide. An HTTP proxy is much too transparent, and wouldn't have allowed me to watch Hulu+ past a certain point. I assume that's still an option, as long as one's server isn't from a known VPS provider/farm or what have you. Although, frankly, the whole thing is pretty ridiculous. I had a home in the US, a permanent address in the US, a US credit card from a US bank and with a US billing address, and derived all of my income in the US. My outrage at geographic content licencing altogether notwithstanding, I was a US customer and should be able to watch shows wherever I damn well please without resorting to such measures.
- exodust 11y agoWhen my proxy service stops working, I cancel my Netflix account, simple as that. The Australian catalogue of Netflix content is quite sad and pathetic. Definitely not worth the monthly fee. Even if it were $2 a month, I wouldn't bother.
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- SalimoS 11y agoYesterday my friend created an account for me to use in Tunisia (in our country we can't buy online [aka our currency is not convertible]) The problem is even it detected I'm in tunisia when I connected via my iPad and using the website to watch in my chromecst and without proxy it didn't work (after loading I get an error alert "u can't use proxy" ) So I guess they are showing all available content but when try to watch test my location and it's weird I still can't find content to watch in my country or a real solution :( By the way even the content original Netflix is unavailable :/
- frankcaffrey 11y agoWell things ain't that tricky as they look No netflix not blocking any vpn and they cant as per these valid points: 1) Netflix has previously also threatened to curb VPN practice but hasn't done so. 2) If Netflix goes ahead with this, it will see an unprecedented rise in un subscription from customers, worldwide, as people only use Netflix because they can use their same account to access different libraries, especially when they travel abroad. 3) If Netflix goes ahead with this, people will simply turn to downloading torrents while protecting their real IP address by using a solid VPN service like www.purevpn.com (Which works best for torrenting - p2p) So yes use any vpn works best for unblocking be it any site Purevpn preferably