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P&G’s Gillette Sues Dollar Shave Club
- hnrodey 11y agoNon pay wall: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/12/17/gillette-sues-dollar-shave-club-for-patent-infringement/WCl1FrIZjCb093OBWUCZhL/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/12/17/gillette-sues...
- ethagnawl 11y agoNon modal: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gillette-sues-dollar-shave-club-alleging-patent-infringement-2015-12-17 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gillette-sues-dollar-shave-...
- adamc 11y agoOr just google the article title and come in through google. Then you can see the whole thing.
- sauere 11y agoClassic "butthurt giant is mad at new competition and sues them to death" move. Subscribing to DSC today, wanted to do that a long time ago anyway.
- burnte 11y agoI used DSC and regretted it, the razors are quite weak. I tried Harry's and was quite happy in the end. Much higher quality.
- mistermann 11y agoWhat is the pricing like on Harry's? Do they have any razors that you tend to hold more perpendicular to your face like the older 2-blade Gillette razors, rather than the 3+ blade razors that you tend to hold parallel to your face?
- Shank 11y ago$1.88/cartridge, 4 blades on each cartridge They're somewhat flexible, so you could probably do either approach (I tend to vary and just remove all hair). I like Harry's quite a bit.
- cwyers 11y agoSo terrible. I upgraded to the highest price tier they had, and realized that I really wasn't saving much money over Gillette and they were just TERRIBLE blades. Like running sandpaper over your face.
- thehoff 11y agoI'm in the opposite camp. I tried Harry's. Twice. A year apart. Couldn't stand the blades. Poor shave and somewhat hurt. I do somewhat like their shave cream though but that's pricey to what I can find elsewhere. I now alternate between Dorco and a safety razor.
- TheCondor 11y agoDifferent folks have different skin but I find Harry's to be the most comfortable as well. The handles have a great feel too, it's not like you have an Xbox controller you're dragging across your face. It's a nice midway between a teenagers Gillette and a mans safety razor. The safety razor is also nice but a bigger time commitment.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- kelukelugames 11y agoIs "butthurt" homophobic or not? I didn't think it was but now people claim it is. So I might retire the term.
- mikeash 11y agoI've never even heard of such a thing. Suggesting that "butthurt" is homophobic seems way more homophobic than the term itself ever could be. Like gay people have a monopoly on butts?
- kelukelugames 11y agoI always thought it meant sore loser, but if someone interprets it differently then it's a trip to the HR office. :/
- swang 11y agoAnyone shed some light on whether there is any validity, or is it just Gillette trying to scare DSC and their customers?
- marme 11y agoit is valid but it is just being used to run them out of business. The actual patent violator is Dorco but they are a foreign company and it would be pointless to sue them. Dollar shave club is merely importing patent infringing razors into the US. But patent law allows you to sue anyone who imports patent infringing materials which makes sense because it can be hard to identify the factory doing the patent infringing but the importer is easy to identify but in this case it is clear who the manufacturer is but it is more useful to sue their competitor than to go after the factory
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- commenter1239 11y agoBut Dorco sell them in the US[0]. [0] http://www.dorcousa.com/ http://www.dorcousa.com/
- rhino369 11y agoThe patent is US 6,684,513 and they are currently asserting claims 1,8, 15-17, 19-20, 23, 28-29, 31, and 34-37. http://www.google.com/patents/US6684513 http://www.google.com/patents/US6684513
- tristor 11y agoI find the claims that P&G makes to be interesting, because unless something has changed, Dollar Shave Club does not actually produce or manufacture under license any of its own products, rather the service is about the delivery and cost mechanism, not the actual product received. Instead, they use products made by Dorco, a South Korean company, http://www.dorcousa.com/ http://www.dorcousa.com/. The 4X, for instance is the same as the Dorco Pace 4 blade system, including compatibility between the cartridges/handles. I think Dollar Shave Club may provide unique handles, but the razor blade cartridges themselves are made by Dorco.
- cfcef 11y ago> rather the service is about the delivery and cost mechanism, not the actual product received. Presumably they are purchasing the razor blades from Dorco and importing them. http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litigation/about-patent-infringement http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litig... > Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability in certain cases. (If you think about it, of course importing is infringement. Otherwise, patents are worthless: anything patented would simply be made overseas, if they aren't already.)
- Someone1234 11y agoYou can buy directly from Dorco in the US.
- pc86 11y agoSerious question: Does this do anything to lessen the infringement claim against DSC?
- reitanqild 11y agoTangentially related: I moved to old fashioned razor blades a few months ago and have actually hurt myself less since then. Bonus: It cost like a fraction of the price and you don't look like a teenager when shaving :-P
- abakker 11y agoAs someone with a coarse beard, safety razors are the only way to go. A safety razor blade from feather lasts 2-3 shaves, while one of those 4/5 blade things from gillette clogs fast, and dulls completely before 1 shave is over. Safety razors really don't clog, and they're much cheaper.
- squiguy7 11y agoI bought a 50 pack of feather razors on Amazon for $10. I haven't bought blades since last year; granted I don't shave every day. I find I get around 4-5 shaves a blade.
- jschwartzi 11y agoI can get my safety razor to clog when I'm shaving my head. Otherwise I have the same experience.
- jff 11y agoI stopped getting razor burn when I switched from disposables to a safety razor, and it's no less convenient. My main complaint was the high up-front cost for the razor but I'm now seeing starter kits in Wal-mart in the $20 range which IIRC included razor, blades, brush, and soap.
- Someone1234 11y agoI assume by "old fashioned" you mean a safety razor, not a straight razor. Safety razors are indeniably cheaper long term (although expect to pay $100 ish to get a good handle, brush, bowl, blades, and soap). You'll likely break even after ten years (assuming $1.50 cartridges Vs. 10c blades). You'll also likely receive a closer shave with a safety razor. That being said... I did the whole safety razor thing. It was fun. But then I switched back to cartridges. Why? In order to get a good close shave with a safety razor while also minimizing the chance of nicks, cuts, and razor burn you need a good quality thick lather. Unfortunately creating a good thick lather can easily take ten minutes. You cannot really use off the shelf shaving foam or gel because it doesn't provide enough protection for a safety razor. So ultimately I decided I wanted shaving to be a 10 minute activity in the mornings, and not a 20 minute activity. Also creating lather isn't the most fun thing to do first thing after you wake up, in particular if you're working it hard (as you should). Cartridges are quick and easy. They're the ultimate lazy man's solution. And you can use off the shelf non-foaming gels (e.g. "King of Shaves Alphagel", "Gillette Fusion ProGlide Clear Shave Gel") in the shower (and, yes, wet-shaves are a must either way, buy an inexpensive non-electrical anti-condensation travel mirror (i.e. you tip hot water into a compartment behind the mirror)).
- Someone1234 11y agoIt is extremely telling that Gillette is suing Dollar Shave Club, a direct competitor, rather than Dorco the actual manufacturer of the blades themselves. DSC is actually just a blade reseller, so suing them for patent infringement seems odd. Until you consider that this whole lawsuit may be part of a larger drive to either push DSC out of business or buy them out of business, in either case the cost of the lawsuit will contribute. PS - As an aside I don't think Dorco's blades are as good as Gillette's blades yet. However I highly welcome a more competitive landscape in the cartridge blade market.
- processing 11y agoThis looks like their last line of attack they created https://www.gilletteshaveclub.com https://www.gilletteshaveclub.com (Whois shows this site was created 23rd April 2015).
- Someone1234 11y agoThe most expensive way to buy blades ever... Mach3 Turbo: $3.50/blade ($2.09 on Amazon S&S). Fusion: $4.50/blade ($3.17 on Amazon S&S). ProGlide: $4.90/blade ($2.61 on Amazon S&S). And since I am comparing it to Amazon's Subscribe & Save, both include delivery and the same level of convenience.
- alistairSH 11y agoWow! People actually pay that much to shave? Name brand, 2 blade disposables are a about $1.25/unit on Amazon.
- Someone1234 11y agoI wouldn't use twin blade disposables to shave my arse (literally and figuratively). You pay more for the gel strip, and comfort of excess blades. Safety razors are a legitimate alternative to cartridges, disposables are generally terrible compared to either one.
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- wahsd 11y agoDoes anyone know where the complaint is or at least the specific patents? I guess they are claiming infringement against a method to coat the blades somehow to improve shaving? Why do I have a feeling this will be another one of those cases that expose just how corrupt and broken our patent system is.
- mikeash 11y agoI get the opposite impression. From the brief description in the article, this sounds like it might be a good patent. But I too would be interested in seeing just what the patent is.
- kevin_thibedeau 11y agoThat would like require journalists to do some research or something. So much harder than just rewriting P&Gs press releases.
- whoopdedo 11y agoBut I thought DSC didn't make the razors? I buy them direct from Korea under the Pace brand name.
- rtkwe 11y agoUSPTO: > Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability in certain cases. If the P&G patent isn't valid where the blades are manufactured the manufacturer isn't in violation. It falls down to whoever is importing them. If they could sue the manufacturer then getting patents in one place would make them defacto valid everywhere and punish companies for the actions of their customers who they have no control over.
- noja 11y agoFor momentarily confused people like me: not P&T's Jillette.
- blueatlas 11y agoI use two blades to shave - start with a "quality" blade (not Gillette) and finish with a cheaper disposable. It extends the life of both and gives me a very clean shave. I estimate that it's cut my blade costs in half since ditching Gillette. Oh, and don't forget the inexpensive Barbasol.
- hughes 11y agoHave you ever tried using a safety razor? The blades cost pennies. I also find I get substantially less razor burn. Switching to shaving soap instead of aerosol cream keeps my total shaving cost to <$10/year.
- iamleppert 11y agoAll of this would be moot if people would just grow a beard and discover all the awesomeness that comes with it! Most of all you don't have to shave anymore!
- Nadya 11y agoUntil some beard oil company finds a way to sue Dollar Beard Club. ;) https://www.dollarbeardclub.com/ https://www.dollarbeardclub.com/
- ripberge 11y agoWouldn't be surprised if Dollar Shave Club brings some legal action against Dollar Beard Club. They have copied them to such a degree with their name and their advertising it is creating confusion in the marketplace. And that's kind of a litmus test for trademark infringement from what I remember in my business law classes.
- cwyers 11y agoHoly wow, yeah, that's quite the copy. Even down to how the boxes are being taped.
- czinck 11y agoWow, I assumed until your comment they were the same company. Kind of like how Enterprise has (or had) both rent-a-car and rent-a-van for moving, a slight tweak to the actual deliverable but same infrastructure/whatever, I assumed DSC owned DBC.
- dpark 11y agoI still shave my neck and it takes at least as long as shaving my face used to, because creating/maintaining a clean neckline takes longer than just shaving it off. I find it unattractive (and itchy) to have the beard grow down my neck as far as it wants to naturally.
- adoming3 11y agoI find it slightly amusing when journalists call companies like Dollar Shave Club an "upstart". It paints this picture that they're this small scrappy startup when in fact they've raised $163M, founded in 2011 and air prime time commercials. But as compared to P&G's market cap of $220B, I get it, they're small potatoes.
- freddref 11y agoI hadn't heard of DSC before and wish it was available in Europe. Would be interested to know how much of a streisand effect they are experiencing. And given the season that's in it, a year's subscription to this would make a handy gift.
- madengr 11y agoShave? I thought this was hacker news, not brogrammer news. So much for neckbeards.
- philosoft 11y agoThis is all crazy considering how well a double-edged safety razor works. Cheap and efficient.