21 ms·

Walmart Pay

129 points by chirau 11y ago

wehadfun 11y ago
What would make this better is if you can buy the stuff without going to checkout. Pick it up. Scan the barcode. Leave. The digital receipt by its self makes this usefull for me. Edit: added additional comment
- cbhl 11y ago
  A lot of items at Wal-Mart have anti-theft RFID tags on them, though, and it would be a pain to say "oh you can't buy this shirt or that video game through the app".
  - johnward 11y ago
    Are they just generic RFID tags or do they identify the items? If they identify the items there has to be an easy way to match the items in the cart vs what has been paid for, no?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - bsilvereagle 11y ago
      The cheaper alarms are just two magnetic coils working in conjunction. There's a nice write by Hackaday on them - http://hackaday.com/2015/12/03/how-store-anti-theft-alarms-work-magnetostriction/ http://hackaday.com/2015/12/03/how-store-anti-theft-alarms-w...
    - cbhl 11y ago
      IIRC, it depends on the item. Some clothes have anti-theft tags that spill ink all over the garment if you don't remove them correctly. Other items (video games come to mind) seem to have a mass-produced chip sticker that is about the size of a rice grain.
  - clarkmoody 11y ago
    Would take bit of doing, but the solution here it to have the store anti-theft system recognize the fact that your specific item has been purchased.
- atom-morgan 11y ago
  This already exists in R&D "stores" for certain large grocers within the US. It's definitely on their list of new features. But you wouldn't even have to scan, you'd just walk through a scanner with your goods.
  - huac 11y ago
    In terms of R&D, check out Ideo's shopping cart concept: https://www.ideo.com/work/shopping-cart-concept https://www.ideo.com/work/shopping-cart-concept
- baldfat 11y ago
  This has been on the "Near Future" list for over 20 years now. I am guessing this will happen when it cost less then having cashiers and they are pretty darn cheap right now.
  - leereeves 11y ago
    The cost per item for RFID tags is still much higher than the cost of a few seconds of a cashier's time to scan the item.
    - CaptSpify 11y ago
      For me personally, I'd see the RFID as a selling point, not a cost point. As a customer, I'd much rather go to a store that has an automated and seamless checkout system than one where I have to wait in line for a cashier.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  All the tricks customers can do to rob you with that approach means having cashiers or at least observers (eg self-checkout) is better. So, the trick is how to make the current model faster or more convenient.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    As long as there are enough self-checks that one doesn't get stuck behind cavemen, they are definitely superior in terms of speed and convenience. Self-checks do get confused sometimes, and I guess it's important to make sure that only adults buy spray paint, but one clerk can handle those situations for a number of check stations.
    - nickpsecurity 11y ago
      Good point on service. Real reason those are there, though, is to pay less cashiers. Their usability was originally horrible and they forced it on people anyway. They've gotten a lot better, though.
- lukeqsee 11y ago
  I've seen this implemented in a few grocery stores in Europe (Switzerland, if memory serves). I didn't see a large proportion of customers using them, however.
- jkelsey 11y ago
  This is possible at Apple Stores w/ the Apple Store app. It works great.
- goatforce5 11y ago
  Using the Apple Retail app to pay for items like this makes me really nervous. The 2 or 3 times i've used it i've ended up walking out of the store waving the product and the receipt screen on my phone around to make a point of being conspicuous so I don't get jumped on by security.
- swang 11y ago
  Or maybe something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk
- thescriptkiddie 11y ago
  Reminds me of my local library. They have RFID tags in all of the books and library cards, and a reader capable of scanning multiple tags at once embedded in the counter. You can just place a pile of books and your library card on the counter and a receipt prints out to tell you when they're due. No further interaction required.
Keverw 11y ago
Looks like Walmart doesn't take Apple Pay or Android pay after a quick Google search. After the whole CurrentC thing, I don't think I'd trust any store owned payment apps. I thought the whole goal of Apple Pay was to simplify things, then all these stores want to make their own versions. To much fragmentation in the mobile payment space, better to just carry a regular major credit card, at least it's accepted almost everywhere universally.
- fluxquanta 11y ago
  Very much what I was thinking. To add, the integration of mobile (itemized?) receipts is nice, but not nice enough for me to have to install and maintain an app on my device just for one store; an app that will undoubtedly hound me through push notifications about sales and other garbage.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Not just for one store: just for The Store. Walmarts the nations largest retailer with a momentum and presence that few stores have. They're putting that "not just any store" attribute to use here to break past that reaction in many potential users. It will work for many. Like you, I'm skipping it, though.
    - fluxquanta 11y ago
      >Not just for one store: just for The Store. Fair point. I live in a rural area where I'm sure a majority of people shop exclusively at Walmart. For someone like that, it would probably be a great app to have. I shop at Walmart too, but not as often as my local grocery store and specialty shops. I would much rather pay in one, standard way at all of them instead of some patchwork of differing methods: EMV card here, mag swipe there, NFC here, take a picture of a QR code there. It just adds hassle on top of the direct advertising platform(s) I would be voluntarily installing to my device. The benefits just aren't worth it.
  - heywire 11y ago
    I was thinking the same thing until I realized that I use a dedicated Starbucks app for mobile ordering and payment...
degenerate 11y ago
>> "at any checkout lane" Oops, they forgot to rephrase this to be more clear: "at any of the open checkout lanes, meaning < 5% of them... because screw you, your time is worthless"
- jazzex 11y ago
  They still have to scan your items.
  - aaronem 11y ago
    He's not talking about that. He's talking about the fact that, at any Wal-Mart you care to patronize, you'll find that while they have sixteen or twenty tills installed and ready to use, they have maybe three actually staffed and available for checkout, so you end up standing in line for five or ten minutes even when there's hardly anyone in the store, and when it's busy you get to choose between waiting half an hour and taking your business elsewhere.
    - mreiland 11y ago
      That and the horrible fucking cards is the reason I don't shop at wal-mart unless I absolutely must. seriously, I bet in the last 10 years I've never had a wal-mart cart that didn't have problems.
    - reviseddamage 11y ago
      "Taking your business elsewhere" from Walmart is hardly a decision that is ever made.
      - epochwolf 11y ago
        I never go to Walmart because of this. I most of my shopping at Kroger and if I need something they don't have, I go to Target or Amazon.
mwexler 11y ago
Thank goodness, another separate wallet to keep track of with non-linked data, another vector for potential theft, and no clear reward for me. Starbucks app has a rewards play, Taco Bell app has customization... but without some compelling magic for non-frequent users, I don't see how this helps the company since it doesn't really seem to help the consumer (and so would have limited penetration).
swang 11y ago
Thought this would address something in regards to their workers' wages. Guess I was too optimistic.
- x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
  I thought the same thing from the title.
tzm 11y ago
Jim Walton (Sam Walton's son) owns 96% of Arvest Bank, which is exclusive to Walmart in the Midwest. Arvest is a growing financial network of banks and related services, which Walmart has been connected to since 1961. It's not a stretch to think that Walmart would create it's own payment network by proxy.
- lost_name 11y ago
  It sounds more like they're integrating their stores with their online site. You scan the register you're at when paying for something, and then you can pay with the app -- you probably need your credit card info saved to your Walmart.com profile or something as well.
LargeCompanies 11y ago
Apple Pay seems to be more widely available and I find myself using it 6 out of 10 times here in the mid-Atlantic region. The majority of the times its easier as you don't have to endure as many button pushes/P.O.S. screens. Walmart Pay is CurrentC all over again with a different name and still the same horrible user experience (download an app, open the app at the register.. give your phone to cashier to scan then go thru all this other POS motions?). As well the underlying fact why Walmart is pushing this to fatten their bottom lines vs. focusing on moving the needle forward for their consumers. Whether it's Apple Pay or another built in Pay service in one's phone no other downloadable app can provide the same world class user experience.
- coldcode 11y ago
  I believe it is CurrentC, at least Walmart was the leader in starting that in the first place. The whole point of this system is to know exactly who is buying what at Walmart. With Apple Pay (or similar) the store has no clue.
  - LargeCompanies 11y ago
    Also, they want to avoid paying the credit company fees.
- tssva 11y ago
  According to the Walmart press release you will not need to hand over your phone for it to be scanned. Instead you keep the phone and scan a code displayed by the register.
mreiland 11y ago
Are you female? I ask because I can't imagine it being that much of a hassle unless you're sporting a stupid number of CC's or you're digging through a purse for your wallet constantly.
- jkelsey 11y ago
  Nope. I'm male. I have three cards in my wallet (debit card, credit card, driver's license). I never said paying with a card is a "hassle", but between the two, paying with my phone is just so much quicker and easier.
  - mreiland 11y ago
    Strangely, I seem to recall the sentence being: "I far prefer it over dealing with the hassle of a card". I may have misread it.
    - jkelsey 11y ago
      You did. I didn't not write that nor edit it later.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  That's just wrong on so many levels.
  - mreiland 11y ago
    How dare I ask an honest question, quick, someone go find the SJW crew!
    - pbreit 11y ago
      Generalizing that HN women (or any, for that matter) are more likely to have a "stupid number of CC's" or are "digging through a purse for your wallet constantly" is fairly off-putting.
arfrank 11y ago
Some quick, deep analysis here (from an industry veteran): http://blog.starpointllp.com/blog/?p=4391 http://blog.starpointllp.com/blog/?p=4391
joryhatton 11y ago
Gross.
alexc05 11y ago
One few of my colleagues did some agency work for Walmart. A large web application for working in parts of their supply chain. These guys are some of the best programmers I know and they had nothing but respect for Walmart tech teams. The first time it came up that I made a casual assumption like "oh, they must be very 'enterprize-y' in their software development." and one of them corrected me by saying something to the effect of "You'd be surprised actually, they're not just surprisingly sophisticated technologically 'for an enterprise' but they're actually surprisingly sophisticated for anyone" Anyways, small anecdote that stuck with me. Walmart is apparently VERY strong in the IT side of things.
- Nelson69 11y ago
  They have very sophisticated IT and logistics software, it's one of the ways they beat everyone else on price.
- mreiland 11y ago
  They always have been, I took a tour of their facilities in college. I recall being told at the time that every transaction that goes through any of their stores anywhere in the world is saved to a HD and stored in a vault somewhere. Kind of insane when you think about it.
  - hga 11y ago
    It can be very handy. Five or more years ago, when you returned an item, they'd manually mark the line in your receipt, which works well enough. Yesterday I had to return an item for the first time since then, and after they read the barcode on my receipt from 2 months ago, I saw the whole receipt, or at least the end of it, flash on a small user facing LCD, and they didn't have to do anything else with my paper receipt. For a product quality return like this I can see many ways in which this would be useful.
- jt2190 11y ago
  Yes, see Walmart Labs to get an idea of what they're in to: http://www.walmartlabs.com/ http://www.walmartlabs.com/
MisterBastahrd 11y ago
Given that I don't walk around with my phone in my hand, it takes about the same amount of effort to pull a card out of my wallet as it does to extract my phone from my front pocket and then find the app to pay with. No thanks.
- ctdonath 11y ago
  Hence Apple's interest in putting NFC into the Watch. Double-tap a button on your wrist and you're done.
- reviseddamage 11y ago
  You are not the average Walmart shopper that relies on market bottom prices that Walmart is best at. Neither are you probably the average Walmart shopper that is sticky to Walmart discounts, rebates, and weakly deals.
  - MisterBastahrd 11y ago
    Most people don't have their phones in their hands when they shop, either, especially at a Walmart where you're more likely to be pushing a buggy than anything. The only time I usually see someone with something at Walmart other than their object of payment is if they found an ad at another store which is cheaper. Payment by phone is largely a solution looking for a problem.
    - reviseddamage 11y ago
      Most people also don't have their wallet in their hands when they are walking around. This usability and natural action argument is sort of moot and non impactful to this a discussion. If I really wanted to keep arguing, I would say that people waiting in line to pay are probably browsing their phone while waiting, so the transition to paying is not cumbersome. It's still a terrible argument for Walmart Pay. But, not as bad as saying that folks won't use Walmart Pay because the buggy is occupying their hands. The probability of finding most things that are cheaper elsewhere than Walmart is extremely small. Their margins and their entire business model depends on that. So your anecdotes of people finding something cheaper is not material. And finally the good 'ole "solution looking for the problem." It seems it is more and more the default "I-cant-extrapolate-but-this-sounds-clever."
jostmey 11y ago
The fastest way to pay is cash---how many times have you waited around a credit card machine waiting for the transaction to go through? Anyway, the big time sink is in the shopping experience, waiting in line, and checking out the items. Who cares how long it takes to pay? Focus on getting ride of waiting in line.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  You are entirely correct. Perhaps a failure of imagination causes companies to spend so much effort on marginal "improvements" like this while ignoring the big issues. After all there are already about seven different ways to pay so even morons can imagine there being another one.
- Yhippa 11y ago
  As someone who pays with credit card I get pretty upset with people who pay with cash. People fumbling around for exact change. The person working the register has to deal with bill or coin shortages: "oops we're out of quarters hey can someone bring some to my register?" Not to mention the overhead incurred by having to deal with all the cash at the end of the day and dealing with shortages.
- dalyons 11y ago
  very incorrect. Visit a country with near-100% NFC contactless card rollout like AU or NZ. Contactless cards(paywave) are effectively instant. Checkout lines are noticeably faster, probably 2x with small/single item counts. Everyone sighs & judges the person paying cash while they hold up the line for everyone else. The US will eventually catch up, and you'll all wonder why you waited so long.
oneJob 11y ago
All these "Company"Pay systems are horrible for the consumer. Sure they may give a particular consumer a particular benefit at a particular point in time, but on balance they are the Facebook of currencies. One of PayPal's initial strategies was to maximize transactions for which both the payer and payee were PayPal customers. This decreased PayPal's operating costs and reduced fraud by a large amount. Sounds like everyone wins, right? That's simply not what currency is. Currency is an transferable i.o.u. worth whatever the creditor says it's worth. The most pervasive currency is currently the greenback. Every additional party or layer between you and the U.S. government increases credit risk and transaction costs everytime you make a transaction outside the pay network your currency is held in. Visa is so convenient because they try to be everywhere, because that's their business. Apple is not a payment network. Walmart is not a payment network. Walmart Pay is simple one part of Walmart's portfolio. Since it's not their core product, they will by necessity make compromises that negatively affect their Walmart Pay from time to time in order to benefit some other part of their business. Look to GE Capital for a case study of what can go wrong there. Just as Facebook is a walled garden for communities, these pay networks are walled gardens for currencies. Some are actually really great, just as Facebook is actually a really great community site. But at the end of the day it's not your garden. With other options such as Visa or cash, I find it difficult to justify turning over yet another critical apect of my daily life to a profit driven corporation according to the limiting and onerous terms and conditions they set. Phew. Now I can go back to watching Wes Craven's "Shocker".
- cballard 11y ago
  Apple Pay is just a nice frontend for Visa, AmEx, etc., with better security - disposable credit card numbers to defeat merchant tracking and leaks.
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    Also faster. Double-tap watch or iPhone button, wave device near register, done. Fast. That vs Walmart Pay tap iPhone button, [swipe to find icon,] tap icon, wait for app, tap scan button, position camera for QR code, wait for focus & recognize, done. Too long. I tried Walmart's Scan-and-Go app. Idea was you could scan all your stuff before reaching the register, scan one QR code, pay, and leave. Took an inordinately long time. Walmart dumped it. Edit: actually there has been a "tap to pay" available at many places. All too often it was turned off, and mildly confusing which cards had it (I had one that did, then its replacement card didn't, so there I was waving a non-tap card at a tap reader). The whole tech fizzled.
thieving_magpie 11y ago
One more place to have your PII stolen.
darkstar999 11y ago
Why does this utilize the phone's camera instead of RFID? Fiddling with the camera seems annoying.
eranation 11y ago
I'd rather they just open Apple Pay instead of a less secure, more cumbersome alternative. I'm not scanning QR codes so far and I'm not planing to start anytime soon.
krisroadruck 11y ago
All of these pay with your phone things are really pointless until we can also show ID with our phones. As long as we are required to carry physical government issued id's we'll still need a wallet, and since we are carrying a wallet anyway why not just keep your cards with you as well. Until using my phone for things means I wont have to carry my wallet, I just don't see the benefit.
fierycatnet 11y ago
I think I've heard it on some podcast that they are using Clojure to process these requests. Is that the project? I know Walmart uses the language so I am thinking it's probably it. Which is kinda cool.
j_m_b 11y ago
If only there was some way to self-checkout with this. Scan your own barcode with the camera, bag your own goods. Set them on the scale, checkout! I know security is a big risk with this, but stores DO have self-checkouts. One step closer to making shopping at the store as easy as going into, picking out what I want and leaving. PS How much of this was written in Clojure?
j_m_b 11y ago
If only there was some way to self-checkout with this. Scan your own barcode with the camera, bag your own goods! Set them on the scale, checkout! I know security is a big risk with this, but stores DO have self-checkouts. Maybe one day shopping at the store will be as easy as picking out what I want and walking out the door! I thought RFID tags were going to bring
sarciszewski 11y ago
The irony here is, of course, that Walmart does NOT pay [its employees well]. :P
tjtrapp 11y ago
>> The result is an innovation that will make the ease of mobile payments a reality for millions of Americans. I don't think this is an innovation but more of an evolution of an already existing process. >> ”The Walmart app was built to make shopping faster and easier,” I have to get wallet from pocket, open it, take out card and swipe - 4 actions. OR I have to take phone from pocket, unlock it by tapping the screen 6 times (dont mess up), opening the app(, maybe navigating to the scanner), then scanning - 4+ actions. That is neither faster nor, in my opinion, easier. Where's the benefit for me (as a consumer) with these electronic payment systems? [edited formatting]

129 points by chirau 11y ago

What would make this better is if you can buy the stuff without going to checkout. Pick it up. Scan the barcode. Leave. The digital receipt by its self makes this usefull for me. Edit: added additional comment

cbhl 11y ago
A lot of items at Wal-Mart have anti-theft RFID tags on them, though, and it would be a pain to say "oh you can't buy this shirt or that video game through the app".
- johnward 11y ago
  Are they just generic RFID tags or do they identify the items? If they identify the items there has to be an easy way to match the items in the cart vs what has been paid for, no?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - bsilvereagle 11y ago
    The cheaper alarms are just two magnetic coils working in conjunction. There's a nice write by Hackaday on them - http://hackaday.com/2015/12/03/how-store-anti-theft-alarms-work-magnetostriction/ http://hackaday.com/2015/12/03/how-store-anti-theft-alarms-w...
  - cbhl 11y ago
    IIRC, it depends on the item. Some clothes have anti-theft tags that spill ink all over the garment if you don't remove them correctly. Other items (video games come to mind) seem to have a mass-produced chip sticker that is about the size of a rice grain.
- clarkmoody 11y ago
  Would take bit of doing, but the solution here it to have the store anti-theft system recognize the fact that your specific item has been purchased.
atom-morgan 11y ago
This already exists in R&D "stores" for certain large grocers within the US. It's definitely on their list of new features. But you wouldn't even have to scan, you'd just walk through a scanner with your goods.
- huac 11y ago
  In terms of R&D, check out Ideo's shopping cart concept: https://www.ideo.com/work/shopping-cart-concept https://www.ideo.com/work/shopping-cart-concept
baldfat 11y ago
This has been on the "Near Future" list for over 20 years now. I am guessing this will happen when it cost less then having cashiers and they are pretty darn cheap right now.
- leereeves 11y ago
  The cost per item for RFID tags is still much higher than the cost of a few seconds of a cashier's time to scan the item.
  - CaptSpify 11y ago
    For me personally, I'd see the RFID as a selling point, not a cost point. As a customer, I'd much rather go to a store that has an automated and seamless checkout system than one where I have to wait in line for a cashier.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
nickpsecurity 11y ago
All the tricks customers can do to rob you with that approach means having cashiers or at least observers (eg self-checkout) is better. So, the trick is how to make the current model faster or more convenient.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  As long as there are enough self-checks that one doesn't get stuck behind cavemen, they are definitely superior in terms of speed and convenience. Self-checks do get confused sometimes, and I guess it's important to make sure that only adults buy spray paint, but one clerk can handle those situations for a number of check stations.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Good point on service. Real reason those are there, though, is to pay less cashiers. Their usability was originally horrible and they forced it on people anyway. They've gotten a lot better, though.
lukeqsee 11y ago
I've seen this implemented in a few grocery stores in Europe (Switzerland, if memory serves). I didn't see a large proportion of customers using them, however.
jkelsey 11y ago
This is possible at Apple Stores w/ the Apple Store app. It works great.
goatforce5 11y ago
Using the Apple Retail app to pay for items like this makes me really nervous. The 2 or 3 times i've used it i've ended up walking out of the store waving the product and the receipt screen on my phone around to make a point of being conspicuous so I don't get jumped on by security.
swang 11y ago
Or maybe something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk
thescriptkiddie 11y ago
Reminds me of my local library. They have RFID tags in all of the books and library cards, and a reader capable of scanning multiple tags at once embedded in the counter. You can just place a pile of books and your library card on the counter and a receipt prints out to tell you when they're due. No further interaction required.

Keverw 11y ago

Looks like Walmart doesn't take Apple Pay or Android pay after a quick Google search. After the whole CurrentC thing, I don't think I'd trust any store owned payment apps. I thought the whole goal of Apple Pay was to simplify things, then all these stores want to make their own versions. To much fragmentation in the mobile payment space, better to just carry a regular major credit card, at least it's accepted almost everywhere universally.

fluxquanta 11y ago
Very much what I was thinking. To add, the integration of mobile (itemized?) receipts is nice, but not nice enough for me to have to install and maintain an app on my device just for one store; an app that will undoubtedly hound me through push notifications about sales and other garbage.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Not just for one store: just for The Store. Walmarts the nations largest retailer with a momentum and presence that few stores have. They're putting that "not just any store" attribute to use here to break past that reaction in many potential users. It will work for many. Like you, I'm skipping it, though.
  - fluxquanta 11y ago
    >Not just for one store: just for The Store. Fair point. I live in a rural area where I'm sure a majority of people shop exclusively at Walmart. For someone like that, it would probably be a great app to have. I shop at Walmart too, but not as often as my local grocery store and specialty shops. I would much rather pay in one, standard way at all of them instead of some patchwork of differing methods: EMV card here, mag swipe there, NFC here, take a picture of a QR code there. It just adds hassle on top of the direct advertising platform(s) I would be voluntarily installing to my device. The benefits just aren't worth it.
- heywire 11y ago
  I was thinking the same thing until I realized that I use a dedicated Starbucks app for mobile ordering and payment...

degenerate 11y ago

>> "at any checkout lane" Oops, they forgot to rephrase this to be more clear: "at any of the open checkout lanes, meaning < 5% of them... because screw you, your time is worthless"

jazzex 11y ago
They still have to scan your items.
- aaronem 11y ago
  He's not talking about that. He's talking about the fact that, at any Wal-Mart you care to patronize, you'll find that while they have sixteen or twenty tills installed and ready to use, they have maybe three actually staffed and available for checkout, so you end up standing in line for five or ten minutes even when there's hardly anyone in the store, and when it's busy you get to choose between waiting half an hour and taking your business elsewhere.
  - mreiland 11y ago
    That and the horrible fucking cards is the reason I don't shop at wal-mart unless I absolutely must. seriously, I bet in the last 10 years I've never had a wal-mart cart that didn't have problems.
  - reviseddamage 11y ago
    "Taking your business elsewhere" from Walmart is hardly a decision that is ever made.
    - epochwolf 11y ago
      I never go to Walmart because of this. I most of my shopping at Kroger and if I need something they don't have, I go to Target or Amazon.

mwexler 11y ago

Thank goodness, another separate wallet to keep track of with non-linked data, another vector for potential theft, and no clear reward for me. Starbucks app has a rewards play, Taco Bell app has customization... but without some compelling magic for non-frequent users, I don't see how this helps the company since it doesn't really seem to help the consumer (and so would have limited penetration).

swang 11y ago

Thought this would address something in regards to their workers' wages. Guess I was too optimistic.

x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
I thought the same thing from the title.

tzm 11y ago

Jim Walton (Sam Walton's son) owns 96% of Arvest Bank, which is exclusive to Walmart in the Midwest. Arvest is a growing financial network of banks and related services, which Walmart has been connected to since 1961. It's not a stretch to think that Walmart would create it's own payment network by proxy.

lost_name 11y ago
It sounds more like they're integrating their stores with their online site. You scan the register you're at when paying for something, and then you can pay with the app -- you probably need your credit card info saved to your Walmart.com profile or something as well.

LargeCompanies 11y ago

Apple Pay seems to be more widely available and I find myself using it 6 out of 10 times here in the mid-Atlantic region. The majority of the times its easier as you don't have to endure as many button pushes/P.O.S. screens. Walmart Pay is CurrentC all over again with a different name and still the same horrible user experience (download an app, open the app at the register.. give your phone to cashier to scan then go thru all this other POS motions?). As well the underlying fact why Walmart is pushing this to fatten their bottom lines vs. focusing on moving the needle forward for their consumers. Whether it's Apple Pay or another built in Pay service in one's phone no other downloadable app can provide the same world class user experience.

coldcode 11y ago
I believe it is CurrentC, at least Walmart was the leader in starting that in the first place. The whole point of this system is to know exactly who is buying what at Walmart. With Apple Pay (or similar) the store has no clue.
- LargeCompanies 11y ago
  Also, they want to avoid paying the credit company fees.
tssva 11y ago
According to the Walmart press release you will not need to hand over your phone for it to be scanned. Instead you keep the phone and scan a code displayed by the register.

mreiland 11y ago

Are you female? I ask because I can't imagine it being that much of a hassle unless you're sporting a stupid number of CC's or you're digging through a purse for your wallet constantly.

jkelsey 11y ago
Nope. I'm male. I have three cards in my wallet (debit card, credit card, driver's license). I never said paying with a card is a "hassle", but between the two, paying with my phone is just so much quicker and easier.
- mreiland 11y ago
  Strangely, I seem to recall the sentence being: "I far prefer it over dealing with the hassle of a card". I may have misread it.
  - jkelsey 11y ago
    You did. I didn't not write that nor edit it later.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
That's just wrong on so many levels.
- mreiland 11y ago
  How dare I ask an honest question, quick, someone go find the SJW crew!
  - pbreit 11y ago
    Generalizing that HN women (or any, for that matter) are more likely to have a "stupid number of CC's" or are "digging through a purse for your wallet constantly" is fairly off-putting.

arfrank 11y ago

Some quick, deep analysis here (from an industry veteran): http://blog.starpointllp.com/blog/?p=4391 http://blog.starpointllp.com/blog/?p=4391

joryhatton 11y ago

Gross.

alexc05 11y ago

One few of my colleagues did some agency work for Walmart. A large web application for working in parts of their supply chain. These guys are some of the best programmers I know and they had nothing but respect for Walmart tech teams. The first time it came up that I made a casual assumption like "oh, they must be very 'enterprize-y' in their software development." and one of them corrected me by saying something to the effect of "You'd be surprised actually, they're not just surprisingly sophisticated technologically 'for an enterprise' but they're actually surprisingly sophisticated for anyone" Anyways, small anecdote that stuck with me. Walmart is apparently VERY strong in the IT side of things.

Nelson69 11y ago
They have very sophisticated IT and logistics software, it's one of the ways they beat everyone else on price.
mreiland 11y ago
They always have been, I took a tour of their facilities in college. I recall being told at the time that every transaction that goes through any of their stores anywhere in the world is saved to a HD and stored in a vault somewhere. Kind of insane when you think about it.
- hga 11y ago
  It can be very handy. Five or more years ago, when you returned an item, they'd manually mark the line in your receipt, which works well enough. Yesterday I had to return an item for the first time since then, and after they read the barcode on my receipt from 2 months ago, I saw the whole receipt, or at least the end of it, flash on a small user facing LCD, and they didn't have to do anything else with my paper receipt. For a product quality return like this I can see many ways in which this would be useful.
jt2190 11y ago
Yes, see Walmart Labs to get an idea of what they're in to: http://www.walmartlabs.com/ http://www.walmartlabs.com/

MisterBastahrd 11y ago

Given that I don't walk around with my phone in my hand, it takes about the same amount of effort to pull a card out of my wallet as it does to extract my phone from my front pocket and then find the app to pay with. No thanks.

ctdonath 11y ago
Hence Apple's interest in putting NFC into the Watch. Double-tap a button on your wrist and you're done.
reviseddamage 11y ago
You are not the average Walmart shopper that relies on market bottom prices that Walmart is best at. Neither are you probably the average Walmart shopper that is sticky to Walmart discounts, rebates, and weakly deals.
- MisterBastahrd 11y ago
  Most people don't have their phones in their hands when they shop, either, especially at a Walmart where you're more likely to be pushing a buggy than anything. The only time I usually see someone with something at Walmart other than their object of payment is if they found an ad at another store which is cheaper. Payment by phone is largely a solution looking for a problem.
  - reviseddamage 11y ago
    Most people also don't have their wallet in their hands when they are walking around. This usability and natural action argument is sort of moot and non impactful to this a discussion. If I really wanted to keep arguing, I would say that people waiting in line to pay are probably browsing their phone while waiting, so the transition to paying is not cumbersome. It's still a terrible argument for Walmart Pay. But, not as bad as saying that folks won't use Walmart Pay because the buggy is occupying their hands. The probability of finding most things that are cheaper elsewhere than Walmart is extremely small. Their margins and their entire business model depends on that. So your anecdotes of people finding something cheaper is not material. And finally the good 'ole "solution looking for the problem." It seems it is more and more the default "I-cant-extrapolate-but-this-sounds-clever."

jostmey 11y ago

The fastest way to pay is cash---how many times have you waited around a credit card machine waiting for the transaction to go through? Anyway, the big time sink is in the shopping experience, waiting in line, and checking out the items. Who cares how long it takes to pay? Focus on getting ride of waiting in line.

jessaustin 11y ago
You are entirely correct. Perhaps a failure of imagination causes companies to spend so much effort on marginal "improvements" like this while ignoring the big issues. After all there are already about seven different ways to pay so even morons can imagine there being another one.
Yhippa 11y ago
As someone who pays with credit card I get pretty upset with people who pay with cash. People fumbling around for exact change. The person working the register has to deal with bill or coin shortages: "oops we're out of quarters hey can someone bring some to my register?" Not to mention the overhead incurred by having to deal with all the cash at the end of the day and dealing with shortages.
dalyons 11y ago
very incorrect. Visit a country with near-100% NFC contactless card rollout like AU or NZ. Contactless cards(paywave) are effectively instant. Checkout lines are noticeably faster, probably 2x with small/single item counts. Everyone sighs & judges the person paying cash while they hold up the line for everyone else. The US will eventually catch up, and you'll all wonder why you waited so long.

oneJob 11y ago

All these "Company"Pay systems are horrible for the consumer. Sure they may give a particular consumer a particular benefit at a particular point in time, but on balance they are the Facebook of currencies. One of PayPal's initial strategies was to maximize transactions for which both the payer and payee were PayPal customers. This decreased PayPal's operating costs and reduced fraud by a large amount. Sounds like everyone wins, right? That's simply not what currency is. Currency is an transferable i.o.u. worth whatever the creditor says it's worth. The most pervasive currency is currently the greenback. Every additional party or layer between you and the U.S. government increases credit risk and transaction costs everytime you make a transaction outside the pay network your currency is held in. Visa is so convenient because they try to be everywhere, because that's their business. Apple is not a payment network. Walmart is not a payment network. Walmart Pay is simple one part of Walmart's portfolio. Since it's not their core product, they will by necessity make compromises that negatively affect their Walmart Pay from time to time in order to benefit some other part of their business. Look to GE Capital for a case study of what can go wrong there. Just as Facebook is a walled garden for communities, these pay networks are walled gardens for currencies. Some are actually really great, just as Facebook is actually a really great community site. But at the end of the day it's not your garden. With other options such as Visa or cash, I find it difficult to justify turning over yet another critical apect of my daily life to a profit driven corporation according to the limiting and onerous terms and conditions they set. Phew. Now I can go back to watching Wes Craven's "Shocker".

cballard 11y ago
Apple Pay is just a nice frontend for Visa, AmEx, etc., with better security - disposable credit card numbers to defeat merchant tracking and leaks.
- ctdonath 11y ago
  Also faster. Double-tap watch or iPhone button, wave device near register, done. Fast. That vs Walmart Pay tap iPhone button, [swipe to find icon,] tap icon, wait for app, tap scan button, position camera for QR code, wait for focus & recognize, done. Too long. I tried Walmart's Scan-and-Go app. Idea was you could scan all your stuff before reaching the register, scan one QR code, pay, and leave. Took an inordinately long time. Walmart dumped it. Edit: actually there has been a "tap to pay" available at many places. All too often it was turned off, and mildly confusing which cards had it (I had one that did, then its replacement card didn't, so there I was waving a non-tap card at a tap reader). The whole tech fizzled.

thieving_magpie 11y ago

One more place to have your PII stolen.

darkstar999 11y ago

Why does this utilize the phone's camera instead of RFID? Fiddling with the camera seems annoying.

eranation 11y ago

I'd rather they just open Apple Pay instead of a less secure, more cumbersome alternative. I'm not scanning QR codes so far and I'm not planing to start anytime soon.

krisroadruck 11y ago

All of these pay with your phone things are really pointless until we can also show ID with our phones. As long as we are required to carry physical government issued id's we'll still need a wallet, and since we are carrying a wallet anyway why not just keep your cards with you as well. Until using my phone for things means I wont have to carry my wallet, I just don't see the benefit.

fierycatnet 11y ago

I think I've heard it on some podcast that they are using Clojure to process these requests. Is that the project? I know Walmart uses the language so I am thinking it's probably it. Which is kinda cool.

j_m_b 11y ago

If only there was some way to self-checkout with this. Scan your own barcode with the camera, bag your own goods. Set them on the scale, checkout! I know security is a big risk with this, but stores DO have self-checkouts. One step closer to making shopping at the store as easy as going into, picking out what I want and leaving. PS How much of this was written in Clojure?

j_m_b 11y ago

If only there was some way to self-checkout with this. Scan your own barcode with the camera, bag your own goods! Set them on the scale, checkout! I know security is a big risk with this, but stores DO have self-checkouts. Maybe one day shopping at the store will be as easy as picking out what I want and walking out the door! I thought RFID tags were going to bring

sarciszewski 11y ago

The irony here is, of course, that Walmart does NOT pay [its employees well]. :P

tjtrapp 11y ago

>> The result is an innovation that will make the ease of mobile payments a reality for millions of Americans. I don't think this is an innovation but more of an evolution of an already existing process. >> ”The Walmart app was built to make shopping faster and easier,” I have to get wallet from pocket, open it, take out card and swipe - 4 actions. OR I have to take phone from pocket, unlock it by tapping the screen 6 times (dont mess up), opening the app(, maybe navigating to the scanner), then scanning - 4+ actions. That is neither faster nor, in my opinion, easier. Where's the benefit for me (as a consumer) with these electronic payment systems? [edited formatting]