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Children of the Yuan Percent: Everyone Hates China's Rich Kids
- lordnacho 11y agoWell it sounds like they have the same problems other rich kids have. Mainly that it's hard to get away from from your parents' influence, and anything you achieve is credited to the family. Also there's a wariness about new people, and a feeling of being disconnected from ordinary society. I know a couple of heirs, and they've handled it differently. One kid works in the family office, investing the family fortune. He takes the view that his life belongs to the family, and he's just a temporary caretaker, whose duty is to keep things good for the next generation. Another has avoided the family business, and doesn't use the family name (everyone who read Forbes would recognise him). He works a job that he didn't need connections to get, and seems happy with it now. When we were in school, it took a while to come to terms with the fact that he didn't have to work, ever.
- chenster 11y agoWhat school is that?
- lordnacho 11y agoNot terribly important, but it was a place where immigrant kids could mingle with the kids of diplomats, corporate folks, and the wealthy.
- kaybe 11y agoLike mentionend in the article: "Relay is therefore planning to start a program fostering ties between fuerdai and children from the countryside."?
- raverbashing 11y agoProbably also absurdly spoiled, never had to have an actual 9-5 job Also accustomed to being rude and being pampered all around the place
- omegaham 11y agoIt depends, but a large number of rich kids are completely aware of the saying, "Riches to rags in three generations." If the money isn't coming in anymore, acting like spoiled assholes will gut a fortune as quickly as the family can spend it. There are a lot of lower-middle class families who were rich 100 (or even 50) years ago. It corrects itself. Most "old money" is perpetuated because education and strong values are passed down from generation to generation. When that stops, so does the money. After all, if Junior is spoiled as shit and needs Daddy's influence to get him a job, he'll do just fine... but what about Junior's kids?
- lordnacho 11y agoNo, I never saw any rudeness from either of these fellows. And they never showed up with a bunch of servants, even though they could hire a whole army of them. The one guy is doing an ordinary 9-5 job. Other guy is managing his family fortune, so yes that's not a normal job.
- dang 11y agoWhat an exemplary reply. When we ask people to remain civil and substantive even when someone else has been provocative, this is what we mean. Thanks for making HN better!
- raverbashing 11y agoI am glad your experiences did not match mine
- blazespin 11y agoTBH, if you can accept a lower standard of living, few people really need to work that much - at least in developed nations. Most people work for social pride and connection to the community. Which is a good reason. I just wish we could remake how to generate this social pride. Buying a nice car or nice house shouldn't be a reason to feel proud. Teaching, doing or learning something new and useful for your community - should be.
- timwaagh 11y agomost people i know do need to work if they dont want to sleep in the streets. i program others wait tables or clean out the garbage. you think somebody does that for 'pride'? it does not matter if the country is developed or not you still have to work because real estate is expensive even if food is not. if you dont well congrats but then you (and your buddies) are one of these second generation dandies.
- vijayr 11y agoeven if food is not. Good food is not cheap. In NYC, we pay 8$ for a decent sized watermelon - almost all fruits are expensive, and most vegetables too. Only shitty food like chips, soda, candy, fast food etc are cheap.
- icebraining 11y agoWatermelon is good food? As far as I know, it's not particularly rich nutritionally, it's mostly expensive sugary water.
- FooBarWidget 11y agoI beg to differ: https://www.google.com/search?q=watermelon+nutrition https://www.google.com/search?q=watermelon+nutrition 1 serving contains 31 daily percent vitamin A and 37 daily percent vitamin C, as well as a good amount of iron, vitamin B-6 and magnesium.
- adventured 11y agoThis reminds me a bit of Born Rich, the documentary by Johnson & Johnson heir Jamie Johnson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o46HH-TfNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o46HH-TfNY
- gd1 11y agoCool headline, but given the population of China, we're probably talking children of the 0.001%
- k__ 11y agoWasn't "The 1%" really "The 0.001%" in the US already?
- 0xcde4c3db 11y agoPretty much. The bottom of the 1% is the elite of people who still actually work for a living, such as lawyers, dentists, and doctors.
- sulam 11y agoAnd software engineers. :)
- djhn 11y ago1% in terms of income, or in terms of wealth? A low-to-mid 6 figures household income? Definitely possible. 8 million net worth? You're gonna have to be a rather.. senior software engineer.
- nostrademons 11y agoOr picked the right startup to work for.
- sulam 11y agoI've heard numbers for the top 1% in wealth for Americans being more like $14M. At any rate, most doctors and lawyers I know get there by saving their 1% incomes, which software engineers can also do (although I think it's easier for a lawyer/doctor to get north of $300K than it is for a software engineer, excluding stock) And speaking of stock... you can get lucky that way, although you still need to save / diversify!
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- rcarrigan87 11y agoFurther down in the article, some interesting points about the motivations behind philanthropy. "philanthropy is about more than just social responsibility—it’s about social stability." So other than a genuine desire to do good or vanity seeking that can motivate philanthropy, you have a third element in China - preventing a revolt by the poor on the rich. If you give just enough, you'll keep the poor subdued. I wonder if there are similar motivations for super rich American philanthropists. My guess is they're less worried about revolt and more motivated by vanity.
- hndude 11y ago>I wonder if there are similar motivations for super rich American philanthropists. My guess is they're less worried about revolt and more motivated by vanity. This is a bit more pessimistic view but what about the raise in minimum wage for fast food workers (in NY) to $15 an hour? I daresay those employees are less likely to participate in Occupy Wall Street protests now, not that the balance of power in this country has actually changed any.
- bsenftner 11y agoAll $15 an hour does it raise them to the new subsistence level. The aware of them still want major changes.
- zardo 11y ago"All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." As true today as it was in 1776. If people can eak out a living, the majority will be satisfied.
- vijayr 11y agoIf you give just enough, you'll keep the poor subdued. One could say the same about salaried employees - give them enough to stay. Too little - they revolt or leave, too much - they save the money and still leave after they've saved enough
- dssddsds 11y agoSounds like a Brave New World kind of hell
- mrkickling 11y ago"You deserve to be poor because you don’t work hard." I wonder how they can allow themselves to be rich if they don't work?
- EliRivers 11y agoThat's a bit out of context. The full quote radically changes the meaning: "There are two groups of poor people. One is, you don’t work hard. You deserve to be poor because you don’t work hard. Second is, you work hard but can’t succeed. I think we should help the second group of people."
- gozo 11y agoWhich is still ridiculous because the Chinese are the hardest working people I've ever seen. I would assume she and her friends are by far the least hard working demographic in China. It's a just world fallacy if anything.
- sliverstorm 11y agoA sixth of the world's population lives in China. Not every one is hard working.
- dreaminvm 11y agoBy hard working Chinese people, are you talking about immigrant Chinese workers or Chinese people in China? You could easily make the argument that migrant workers are historically a hard working demographic, but I don't think the same could be argued for the world's most populous country.
- analyst74 11y agoIt's a selection bias, because the lazy and stupid ones don't qualify for economic immigration, and there is no easy way to illegally cross the pacific ocean.
- ZeroGravitas 11y agoI liked her next line: There’s a saying, jiu ji bu jiu pin—‘We’ll help you if you have an emergency, but we cannot help you if you’re poor.’ Which is something I think about every time there's a global appeal after an earthquake or tidal wave, yet that contrasts with general indifference or outright hostility to helping with general poverty. Just need to figure out how to pronounce that phrase correctly so I can drop it into conversation.
- blisterpeanuts 11y agoI visited China in 1982, when the capitalist revolution was just getting started. Such wealth did not exist, but there was a deep, simmering anger among the people over Communist corruption and general unfairness and inequity. I witnessed it personally. Now that there's a bit more prosperity and availability of material goods, but still no freedom and still a simmering resentment of government corruption, this fuerdai generation of spoiled children have put themselves out there with brash behavior and big targets painted on their foreheads. An economic slowdown and a loss of jobs to cheaper locales in South Asia and to manufacturing technologies like 3D printing could be the catalyst to large scale social unrest. It's a worrisome situation.
- o0-0o 11y agoLarge scale social unrest is just what the communists fear the most. To me, that's not worrisome - it's hopeful. Just opining, and I understand that the collateral costs would be worrisome for everyone in the short term.
- SCHiM 11y ago> collateral costs Read "human lives". I understand and share your sentiment regarding the fact that a chance towards a (seemingly) more liberal form of government is good. But I'd be hesitant to call the costs of unrest at such a scale merely worrisome. The only thing I hope for is that change will come slowly, if it comes at all.
- aianus 11y ago> The only thing I hope for is that change will come slowly, if it comes at all. That's worse than a bloody revolution. If change comes so slowly that you don't get to experience it in your lifetime you might as well have died anyways.
- sliverstorm 11y agoOnly if living conditions today are so bad you might as well be dead. Which is why I speculate revolutions might become rare, as progress has improved everyone's lot, even the lowest classes. Few people live in a wood-fired dirt-floor log cabin or wash their clothes in a tub by the river these days.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- happywolf 11y agoJust in case you wonder how to pronounce the Chinese word 'fuerdai', it sounds like 'foo-earl-die', which literally means 'rich second generation'
- Apfel 11y agoUhhh... I think Foo Arr Die is a more accurate pronunciation, no?
- happywolf 11y agoNo, it has 'er' instead of 'ar' sound. In fact, 'err' is a better word than 'earl'
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- zhemao 11y agoIn Standard Mandarin pronunciation, er is definitely pronounced like "arr". If you don't believe me, listen to the pronunciation given by Google Translate. https://translate.google.com/#zh-CN/en/%E4%BA%8C https://translate.google.com/#zh-CN/en/%E4%BA%8C There might be some regional accents which pronounce it more like "err", but "arr" is the standard pronunciation.
- happywolf 11y agoI agree the google translate link above pronounces this character very close to 'Arr', however do note the Pinyin (Chinese phonetic system), 'Er' starts with 'E'. Just for the sake of discussion, here is character that starts with 'A'. See if you feel the difference. https://translate.google.com/#zh-CN/en/%E5%95%8A https://translate.google.com/#zh-CN/en/%E5%95%8A
- ronyeh 11y agoYou two probably speak with different accents. In Beijing accent, Foo Arr Die sounds pretty accurate. Arr like a pirate would say it.
- roymurdock 11y agoFunny to think that China was reforged under communist ideals only 50 years ago, and that the hatred of the poor rural folk for the wealthy, corrupt royals and warlords was strong enough to unite allow the country to expel the Japanese, the British, and the KMT. It's my view that the standard of living for the poor and lower classes has improved enough that there would not be enough hatred to fuel a revolution. Disgust and indignation, maybe, but it seems like a quaint notion that a leader could unite peasants and farmworkers, outfit them with weapons and train well enough to fight against the PLA and its allies. Anyone from China/living in China travel to any rural areas and have any insights they're willing to share?
- cafard 11y agoa. Only 50 years ago? The Japanese surrender was 70 years ago, and the civil war between the PLA and the KMT was all over but the shouting 65 years ago. b. The British? The corrupt royals? The royalty was gone except from the puppet state in Manchuria well before that. c. The expulsion of the Japanese had a good deal to do with the Japanese losing a war to certain Western powers, not to mention, in at the end, the USSR. d. It is not at all clear to me (I am no historian) that the revolution per se would have sufficed without the losses suffered from 1938-1945.
- roymurdock 11y agoYou're right - for some reason I thought we were still in the year 2000. The main brunt of the revolution occurred 70-80 years ago from 1930-1945. I also agree that the huge macroeconomic instability of WWII was helpful in allowing the communist party to organize a successful campaign as the KMT had to deal with multiple enemies on multiple fronts, and the communists were also receiving aid from the US to fight the Japanese post Pearl Harbor. I think we would need to see another period of large-scale war in order to see any kind of revolution in China.
- douche 11y agoIt really only takes a single spark and semi-charismatic leadership to start a revolution if there is widespread hostility to the ruling party. The Taiping nearly overthrew the Qing dynasty, and they were led by a deranged religious fanatic who had a breakdown after failing repeatedly to get into civil service and claimed to be the second coming of Jesus. This came at a time when the expansion and prosperity of the Qianlong emperor was well in the rear-view, and population pressures, corruption, monetary shifts (the massive influx of Spanish silver in exchange for tea, silk, china, etc, was replaced by opium, which threw off the rates of exchange between gold, silver and cash) and other factors were resulting in a real decline in standard of living. Today, any rebellion would probably need to involve a dissatisfied faction of the PLA, because China is so disarmed - the Communists arose at a time when the supply of firearms within China was probably at it its all-time high, between the decades of warlord control, the war with Japan, and military aid arriving from all sides in WW2. And quite frankly, the KMT armies were not particularly professional or formidable adversaries, compared even with the rank-and-file of the PLA today.
- talloaktrees 11y agoI had trouble understanding this title, and I realized it's because I speak Chinese. "Yuan" doesn't sound anything like one. it's more like "you" + "an"
- jerf 11y agoEven in English it's a serious stretch. I just checked my /usr/share/dict/words for everything starting with "y" and nothing else that uses a Y for a W sound is leaping out at me.
- joshuaheard 11y agoI was told in China it was pronounced "wahn", so the title makes sense to me.
- anonnyj 11y agoEh, thats simply wrong though. Maybe it'd sound like that with a thick accent/someone who doesn't speaks putonghua well... Either that or you're thinking of 万 / wan / 10,000
- olalonde 11y agoIt's more like yü-an actually (similar to how "u" is pronounced in French): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zh-yu%C3%A1n.ogg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zh-yu%C3%A1n.ogg
- danmaz74 11y ago"A survey conducted in 2013 found that 64 percent of Chinese high-net-worth individuals had emigrated or wanted to emigrate overseas" that's a pretty impressive figure (even if an outdated one).
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jb613 11y agoAn underlying motif of the article seems to be that the fuerdai not only do not want to work hard but also that they only deserve the best jobs. One example: "It’s no surprise that most fuerdai, after summering in Bali and wintering in the Alps, reading philosophy at Oxford and getting MBAs from Stanford, are reluctant to take over the family toothpaste cap factory." However, at least some of the parents fortunes came from precisely working hard at menial work (e.g. owning and operating a toothpaste cap factory). For those that didn't build companies, while luck may have played a role, I suspect the parents who found their way into the upper levels of government or political jobs also had some degree of working hard or being smarter than others. "the son of Wang Jianlin, a real estate mogul and the richest man in China" Or taken risks - because unless you inherit or are granted land there is no other way to make the vast fortunes from real estate than leveraging and risk. Bankrupt or rich, it could have gone either way.
- mattzito 11y agoI think you are underestimating the amount of graft and corruption that may have been involved in a lot of these fortunes. From knowing folks who have opened factories and businesses in China, there is a staggering amount of market manipulation by various government functionaries who pick and choose who gets to win and lose.
- jb613 11y agoSure, in many instances, corruption may have played a role too, but corruption requires work too - something the article implies is beneath the fuerdai.
- LiweiZ 11y agoBeing a master of "马屁精" or ass-kisser as a somewhat direct translation is the only skill they need besides being born in the inner circle or having special relationship with the circle. I'd admit being a master in a field is a challenging task. Better systems encourage more masters contributing to humanity, while others encourage masters contributing to themselves.
- roymurdock 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- clickok 11y agoIt seems to me that, while wealthy, these fuerdai kids are uncomfortable bordering on neurotic. They're mainly notable because of their connection to their parents, and anything that they do accomplish is suspect because they never know if they got (hired|admitted|published|married) because someone was trying to curry favor with their folks. Attempts to branch out, to find wealth and power on their own, are not usually successful, especially when compared to their parents[0]. Their whole identity seems to be formed around "being wealthy", yet that wealth is based on things that they have little control over. Thus the concern that at some point the money's going to stop flowing, whether because their parents fall out of favor with the government, or because a popular uprising takes place. They talk about emigrating to the US[1], or how philanthropy is really just a way of ensuring social stability. In contrast, first generation rich people[2] seem to talk as if business were interesting (if not downright fun), and only discuss emigrating as some sort of inside joke whenever Obama wins an election. --- 0. Although maybe that's because they're starting fashion lines, concierge agencies, or magazines, while their parents run toothpaste conglomerates or shoe manufacturers. Missing opportunities because they're not sufficiently exciting, and then rushing off to compete in already crowded (but sexy!) businesses seems to be universal. 1. I thought that Britain was supposed to be the top destination for fleeing oligarchs and their scions? Is there like a Yelp for billionaires? Maybe Berezovsky left a bad review? 2. Jim Clark from that Michael Lewis book springs to mind, or any character meant to represent capitalism from Ayn Rand.
- Stryder 11y ago- One day this summer, at the urging of a friend, Wang decided to call his father and tell him he loved him. Wang senior picked up the phone. “I love you, Dad,” Daqi said. There was a pause. “Are you drunk?” his father asked. - I would have asked the same thing, with expletives. I hope that I will never end up with dumbass children like that.