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Why Do Colleges Give Honorary Degrees?
- bernardom 11y ago"Supreme Court member Ruth Bader Ginsburg has an honorary degree from every single Ivy League School, with the exception of Cornell, which doesn’t give them out." ...except for her actual undergrad degree, which is from Cornell. (Hey, when you don't have presidents, you take what you can get. And we'll take RBG over several presidents.)
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- tanderson92 11y agoAn earned undergraduate degree is not an 'honorary degree'.
- coldtea 11y agoNo, but it's a "degree", and she has that university covered too, degree-wise, which is what he means.
- deong 11y agoBut the quote explicitly says "honorary degree". She doesn't have an honorary degree from Cornell.
- PhasmaFelis 11y agoIf a sentence can be interpreted in two different ways, and it's clear from context which one the speaker meant, it's considered polite to choose that one.
- knodi123 11y agoAlso called the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
- coldtea 11y agoThis is equivalent to saying "does not compute". We're not computers, and we can't fix syntax errors in natural language from context. Not that what he said wasn't clear enough itself.
- CocaKoala 11y agoBefore we start sassing somebody for interpreting a sentence improperly, let's look at the ACTUAL full quote; "Supreme Court member Ruth Bader Ginsburg has an honorary doctorate degree from every single Ivy League School, with the exception of Cornell, which doesn’t give them out." It doesn't seem unreasonable to point out that an earned undergraduate degree is significantly different from an honorary doctorate degree, and that perhaps when somebody EXPLICITLY SPECIFIES the second type, they aren't talking about the first. That's not a syntax error, and it's plenty clear.
- coldtea 11y ago>It doesn't seem unreasonable to point out that an earned undergraduate degree is significantly different from an honorary doctorate degree, and that perhaps when somebody EXPLICITLY SPECIFIES the second type, they aren't talking about the first. It's very unreasonable, and kind of rude to divert the discussion just to split hairs. Not to mention that there wasn't even a syntactic or logical error in the original bloody statement. The full original quote plus parent comment was this: >Supreme Court member Ruth Bader Ginsburg has an honorary degree from every single Ivy League School, with the exception of Cornell, which doesn’t give them out." ...except for her actual undergrad degree, which is from Cornell. Clearly mentioning that her "undergrad degree" is an ACTUAL one, and not a "honorary". Very clearly he adds to the information that "she has a honorary degree from every single Ivy League school except Conrell" that she also has "an actual udergrad degree, which is from Cornell". It's CLEAR that his intention is to say that she has a degree, regardless of kind, from ALL Ivy League schools, and to also explain why she doesn't have one from Cornell (because Cornell doesn't need to give her a honorary one, they gave her their actual degree).
- CocaKoala 11y ago
- tanderson92 11y agoThe parent uses the words "...except", indicating they take exception to the quote directly above. In this instance, adding information about earned undergraduate degrees is misleading as the quote is only about honorary degrees. It's equally as irrelevant as her earned Columbia law degree. Nobody would object to the OP saying "funnily enough, she does have an earned degree from Cornell...", which is my point. Taking exception requires something to be factually incorrect.
- huxley 11y agoI imagine an honorary undergraduate degree would also be a bit of a rarity.
- ssaddi 11y agoVery interesting article .. it demonstrates that big ivy league institutions used it as means to obtain funding and built connections for their institutions. An "honorary" degree cannot be compared to a degree won through sheer hard work and dexterity ... society should know this and highlight it
- trentmb 11y ago> An "honorary" degree cannot be compared to a degree won through sheer hard work and dexterity I thought that was kinda the point of honorary degrees- a person accomplishes something in a particular field despite the lack of the formal education.
- jonah 11y agoI've always understood them as recognition for accomplishments like other awards, medals, etc.
- fiatmoney 11y agoThere should be a distinction between an "honorary" degree awarded because a "real" one would be superfluous (Richard Stallman, Increase Mather, etc) and those awarded because of donations or co-branding.
- BrainInAJar 11y agoWhy do you think Stallman's honourary degree would be superfluous, because you like him?
- fiatmoney 11y agoEmacs or GCC alone are more impressive chunks of work than many Ph.D theses I've seen, if they were given a prettier write-up. But besides that, it's like giving a Th.D to St. Paul - GNU & free software in general is the reason a huge chunk of software and resulting work exists at all. An honorary degree doesn't really convey the scale of the accomplishment.
- BrainInAJar 11y agoSo he wrote some software that more or less copied extant software, which was well used. That's undergraduate thesis level stuff. Has he done much on the theoretical (CS/Math) side to justify an advanced degree? I'd argue not
- reuven 11y agoStallman is a hugely influential person. He has contributed a great deal to the world of free software. And giving him an honorary degree is a great thing, demonstrating his many accomplishments. But it still really bugs me that he calls himself a PhD, and asks for the title "Dr." (And yes, I have a PhD, on which I worked for 11 years, at great cost to myself and my family. So feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt.) A PhD doesn't mean that you're a very accomplished person. Or a smart person. Or an influential person. It demonstrates that you know how to create, execute, analyze, document, and defend a specific research project, using the tools and vocabulary of a discipline. If a university wants to retroactively award Stallman a PhD for his research, then they should do so. I know that this has been done in the past, because a professor in my graduate program got his PhD in precisely this way -- he did amazing work, and someone said, "You know, this is worthy of a PhD." He wrote it up, and got it. It's quite possible that one or more universities would be willing to do this for Stallman. But until they do, his honorary PhD is a way of indicating their gratitude and respect for his many contributions to the world of free software. Which is great, but it's not the same as a real PhD. By the way, MIT (where I got my undergrad degree) doesn't give honorary degrees: http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees I'm rather proud of this, as well as the fact that when you graduate, you don't do so "with honors" and such. Either you finished, or you didn't.
- CephalopodMD 11y agoAnd as usual, Thomas Jefferson's foresight was about 20/20 in this case.
- wtf_is_up 11y agoAwarding an honorary degree is analogous to liking a status update on Facebook.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jboynyc 11y agoNot always, it can also be a very overtly political act. Consider playwright Tony Kushner's honorary degree from a CUNY college, among many others.
- JupiterMoon 11y agoSo can liking an overtly political facebook post. (Ineffectual potentially but still political.)
- seanmcdirmid 11y agoHonorary degrees is a cheap way of increasing prestige by associating the university with someone who already has prestige.
- wyclif 11y agoThat's why I have tremendous respect for the schools (like MIT) who do not engage in this ridiculous charade.
- gregr401 11y agoExactly. Another form of brand marketing. I do wonder how/when these started.
- jacquesm 11y agoIt started as a way to recognized important contributions to a field outside of the academic process.
- rdc12 11y agoThe article that started this conversation, completely disagrees with you, and they cite the historical record of the early honorary degrees.
- coldtea 11y agoOne example of an early honorary degree (the one the authors of said article probably found with a quick search in Wikipedia) doesn't capture the practice through the centuries, nor how it was established and used in other countries. There's a difference between "first" and "representative of how a thing caught-on and came to be established and practiced" -- the first uses might not be representative of neither the reason for widespread adoption nor current use. There are countries whose universities need (and do) no marketing at all otherwise, because they are public and state sponsored, but still give honorary degrees to honour important contributors from outside the academic field.
- seesomesense 11y agoHonorary degrees bring dishonour upon both the conferrer and the conferee.
- cafard 11y agoI happened a few years ago to be at a relative's graduation from Wilson College in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. They gave Temple Grandin an honorary degree, and she gave them an excellent commencement speech. I haven't heard a lot of commencement speeches, but this one was a lot better than the excerpts I see every year from big universities. I did not think worse of Dr. Grandin for receiving the award, and I did think much better of Wilson College for their choice of commencement speaker (to the extent that I thought about it at all before).
- vladmk 11y agoDo you think the guy who invented college went to college? Nope. It's obviously degrees are bullshit, one day I hope people learn that.
- animefan 11y agoIs this a serious comment? Do you believe that there is literally a "guy who invented college".
- placebo 11y agoOf course, it's the same guy who previously invented languages :) Seriously though, I'd like to offer a perspective that will hopefully demonstrate that OP's opinion is not devoid of merit. I propose that in a perfect world, degrees would not be necessary. Also, grades would not be necessary for the same reason. Putting it in rather simplistic terms, both are something artificial that degrade the passion for knowledge by mixing it with the passion for prestige. They are a crude instrument serving as an external motivator that often comes at the expense of a natural and internal one which exists in everyone. An internal motivator is much better at rendering any difficulties along the path insignificant due to the joy of the pursuit. Of course, I don't think that abolishing grades and degrees today would be wise. It would be a disaster, as irresponsible as taking taking away very good crutches from a handicapped person. I just hope that with time, the person can be taught to be more passionate about learning to walk than improving his crutches. I assume this is not going to be a popular opinion because many people are too deeply invested in their academic achievements. Also, I might not be seeing the whole picture so I'm open to criticism.
- danellis 11y agoYeah. John College. I'm surprised to haven't heard of him.
- coldtea 11y agoYes, there's IS literally a "guy who invented college"... "An academy is an institution of secondary education or higher learning, research, or honorary membership. The name traces back to Plato's school of philosophy, founded approximately 385 BC at Akademia (...) north of Athens, Greece". This has been the early prototype for later roman, middle-ages, renaissance and finally modern colleges. It wasn't the first teacher or even school were children were taught, but it was the first higher learning institution, with organized courses and mostly modern form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_higher-learning_institutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_higher-learning_instit... Comparing it to the "guy who invented language"? As if it's something communally developed, whose origins are lost in prehistoric times? Really?
- icomefromreddit 11y ago[1]Richard P. Feynman: Dear George, Yours is the first honorary degree that I have been offered, and I thank you for considering me for such an honor. However, I remember the work I did to get a real degree at Princeton and the guys on the same platform receiving honorary degrees without work—and felt an "honorary degree" was a debasement of the idea of a "degree which confirms certain work has been accomplished." It is like giving an "honorary electricians license." I swore then that if by chance I was ever offered one I would not accept it. Now at last (twenty-five years later) you have given me a chance to carry out my vow. So thank you, but I do not wish to accept the honorary degree you offered. Sincerely yours, Richard P. Feynman http://stancarey.tumblr.com/post/30867103451/why-richard-feynman-declined http://stancarey.tumblr.com/post/30867103451/why-richard-fey...
- wyclif 11y agoThanks for sharing that letter. Feynman was an honourable man and academic.
- brandonmenc 11y ago"I don't like honors" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEUcmKDaklY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEUcmKDaklY
- rdc12 11y agoAnyone know if this is part of a longer talk? If so which
- chestervonwinch 11y agoI believe this is from "The pleasure of finding things out".
- treme 11y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyqleIxXTpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyqleIxXTpw
- riffraff 11y agoHonorary degrees seem to follow the same pattern in Italy. Off the top of my head, I remember them being awarded to a few musicians (literature), a sportsman (Valentino Rossi, bike racer in "Communication Sciences"), tv personalities and only one that made some sense (Ronald Rivest, Computer Science). (Interestingly enough, in Italy the "Dr." honorific is used for people with a master degree, not just a doctorate as it is elsewhere, so people receive just a master-level degree, not a Ph.D).
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- lordnacho 11y agoIt's just a way to get some press and maybe some money as well. I doubt anyone would be fooled by the title. I went to Oxford, and the arts undergrads there can get an MA OXON 7 years after matriculation (arts courses are generally 3 years, and you don't do anything other than send in a form to get the Master's). I doubt anyone confuses it with the MEng that I got. Using the title is a poncey thing. The last time I remember someone insisting on it was Helmut Kohl, when he got pissed off at some journalist.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y agoI think Germans still place a lot of importance on titles and they still have formal and informal ways of referring to people Du vs Tu
- crazysaem 11y agoDid you mean "Du vs Sie"? If not, what do you mean with "Tu"? I've never heard of that.
- lordnacho 11y agoLooks like he's mixed German and French.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y agoMy apologies to French and German Speakers :-)
- NLips 11y agoTo clarify for non-natives (or non-Oxonians): Similar to Cambridge, for most or all subjects, Oxford will award a BA after three years, not just what we might think of now as 'arts'. Depending on the subject and institution, you might only get the BA if you stop after three years rather than carrying on for an undergraduate masters e.g. Study Engineering Science at Oxford for 4 years and you get an MEng (assuming you pass the required standards). You will not get a BA. Had you stopped after three years (or somewhere before the end of the 4th year) you'd have got a BA and could apply for the MA 21 terms after you matriculated.
- cm2187 11y agoIt's cheaper to issue a worthless piece of paper than to pay cash to a celebrity to make a speech at a conference. I think it is a rather smart use of tuition funds. Paying people in esteem is a management 101.
- phpfan 11y agoIt's all about PR, I would imagine.
- threatofrain 11y agoThe cynical side of me says that honorary degrees are ways of collecting big-name people so that colleges can claim them as one of their own. Our university boasts the like of Richard Stallman and supreme court justices!
- eots 11y agoBig-name people like heads of state, like the then PM of my country to which the University of Philadelphia in 2004. gave a honorary degree. The same now sits in jail for corruption, fraud, and war profiteering amongst other charges.
- billpg 11y agoOn my graduation, someone called Mr Jack Jones was being given an honorary doctorate. (I understand he was a trade unionist or something, if I may be as dismissive as I possibly can.) I wanted to walk out when they got to his bit of the ceremony but general cowardliness took over - they might have revoked my degree if I had made a scene! When he was presented for the applause I did my best to remain seated with my arms folded and a look of disapproval. I observed that over on the other side of the room where the parents were seated, he was getting a standing ovation, while my side of the room could be best described as "polite". No-one (as far I could see) was standing.
- rdancer 11y agoOh, Priceonomics, always looking for a slightly ham-fisted angle! I am very much looking forward to gaining a degree from some fringe yet accredited online university, and everybody who cares about that sort of thing will have to address me as 'Dr.' Precisely because caring too much about letters before and after one's name is asinine, vapid, and ultimately delusional. Strive to be the best person you can be. And if you really want a better seat, why not embrace your inner arsehole fully, and get a disability badge?
- Loughla 11y agoI don't know about that last line, but everything before that rings true. My graduate school mentor told this story quite a bit, and it has always stuck with me: I grew up poor, like dirt poor. Dirt floor, no shoes, backwoods poor. I did well in high school, I was well known around town, and people liked me. They knew I was a good kid with good intentions, who just happened to come from poor folks. I knew that graduating from high school would make me a big man. My parents had never finished high school. I knew people would look up to me. Then I heard about university. I knew that if I graduated with a bachelors that I would be it. People would respect me. People would look up to me. My parents didn't even know about the university system, let alone what getting a bachelors meant. So, I went to college, I did well. People knew me around campus, I was involved in clubs and sports and worked. People liked me. I knew I was going to be a big man. Then I heard about graduate school. I had to get a masters. I knew for my career it would bring me respect. I knew personally it would bring me respect. People would know me. Well, by that time, I knew about the PhD, so you can probably see where this is going. I knew that when people had to call me Doctor, they would respect me. Doctor La___. It sounded good. People would know me, people would respect me. So I went to graduate school and I worked on my doc. I was well known in my classes. I worked on interesting and exciting research that led me to my current career. I am a leader in my field. And I tell people not to call me Doctor. I want them to call me Jim. It wasn't until my last semester of post-graduate work that I realized it. People didn't respect me because of my degrees; they respected me because of who I was and what I did. I had been treated the same since high school. People had always known my name, I had always received choice assignments at work, I was always greeted with friendly smiles and genuine enthusiasm when I traveled to see old acquaintances. And none of it had to do with my degrees. The moral of the story: If you rely on titles and public accolades to feel big, more than likely you spend too much time making yourself feel small.
- dataker 11y ago"One" can buy a doctorate degree, but most can't test out of a simple 4-years bachelor's degree. Isn't it hypocritical?
- jamesfe 11y agoIf the average donation for an honorary degree was $68,854, would it make more sense for me to just forego the four years of effort and write a check for $70k in return for a degree? A masters is two years, so that's $35k per year. A PhD is 4-10 years, so that's 17.5k-7k per year. It's starting to sound like a good investment!
- gerty 11y agoWhile this article is aimed at the American system, it can't be applied as is throughout the world. My institution in continental Europe does award honorary degrees (~3 each year) though very few of the recipients can be considered pop stars. Most of them have had a significant impact in their domain (e.g. art, environment, 3rd world politics), though little publicized and quite unknown. This is something I can feel proud about.
- brightball 11y agoAt Clemson I've seen honorary degrees given to very successful people who gave a lot of money to the university. The degree was usually given during general graduation and gives the successful business person a chance to speak to the graduating class. Honestly, it never bothered me at all. It's one thing if you're saying "here, take this honorary degree and go work in a new profession"...but that's not what happens. Honorary degrees are given in an area where the person has already proven themselves successful...so it's really nothing at all like an "honorary electricians license". I'm sure most colleges would love it if people decided to take the "easy route" and go, be extremely successful in a field, give a bunch of money to the university and get an honorary degree at some point. Feynman, in this particular instance, is showboating more than anybody who's ever been honored. I've got an undergraduate degree and a masters degree. I worked hard for them. I've worked a hell of a lot harder to be successful in my field and if I get to a point where I've been so successful that I can dole out hundreds of thousands of dollars back to the school that they choose to honor me with another degree I'll appreciate that they thought I was worth recognizing... But the amount of work involved to "get a degree" or even two degrees is TRIVIAL compared to the amount of work involved in actually being successful. Lots of people have degrees. Lots of people are not overly successful in their careers. To that end, Feynman is showboating.
- tormeh 11y agoBeing successful =/= Being rich And while being successful or making an outstanding contribution is a way to get an honorary degree, it is easier still to just buy one.
- bojo 11y agoI prefer /=
- Retra 11y agoI'm pretty sure Feynman would attribute his successes to his education and effort, not to the fact that he was awarded degrees for getting an education or making the effort. The degree itself is an honorary; it isn't intrinsically important. So if you are successful, it doesn't matter whether or not you have a degree, so why should anyone care if you do? >Honorary degrees are given in an area where the person has already proven themselves successful...so it's really nothing at all like an "honorary electricians license". If you've proven yourself successful, what good is a degree going to do? Prove it again? The only thing an honorary degree can do is bestow trust onto someone who doesn't deserve it. If you already have trust earned through successes (enough to make anyone think you should have a degree,) you certainly don't need a degree to bestow it, do you? At best, an honorary degree simply says what everyone already knows. At worst, it privileges people who don't deserve it.
- waylandsmithers 11y agoNot crazy about the statement about Harvard where "the rate of increase there is in a league of its own". It looks like in about 2000 they just decided instead of giving out 1 or 2 a year they would give out about 10. Who cares? IMO for places like Harvard that already have maximal prestige, throwing around more degrees is only diluting their value. On a personal note, the president of my alma mater happened to be leaving the year that I graduated. She gave herself an honorary doctorate!
- rahimnathwani 11y agoSmall nitpick: The second image in the article, labelled 'Oxford University' would more properly be labelled 'Keble College, Oxford'.
- peeters 11y agoI think there is a case to be made for honorary degrees, but not with how they are commonly used today. To me it makes sense that if someone becomes one of the utmost authorities in a field, but didn't do it by spending half a million dollars and many good years at an Ivy League school, you can still recognize their credibility through an honorary degree.
- Retra 11y agoIf someone is the utmost authority in their field, they won't need a degree for you to recognize their credibility.
- Roodgorf 11y agoFor a supposedly economics oriented site this article sure spends a lot of time talking about celebrities and how much of a sham it is for them to title themselves "Dr." I am completely on board with the unearned title thing, but how many paragraphs about various people's shelves full of honorary degrees do we need? The title asks why but doesn't supply a straightforward, albeit somewhat obvious, answer until the last quarter of the article. I hate to be another "where is all the real journalism?" person but, seriously where is it?
- exelius 11y agoThey spend time talking about celebrities because that will improve the SEO results of the article. They have substantial, original content that mentions famous people. Journalism is dead. We're now just fodder for the "article hackers" whose job it is to get page views. There are different ways to do this for different audiences; this is the snobbish academic equivalent of a Buzzfeed article titled "15 Signs You Totally Have VD".
- werber 11y agoI thought honorary degrees were just a ploy for universities to drive stoned wiki stumblers to their pages.