8 ms·

Apprentice.at – Apprenticeships, not internships

97 points by kangman 11y ago

shire 11y ago
Where is the Washington Apprenticeships, Seattle preferably :)
- idibidiart 11y ago
  start one
- mathgladiator 11y ago
  I am not affiliated with site, but I believe the apprenticeship model is good. I'm currently looking for a apprentice (http://jeffrey.io/writings/apprentice.html http://jeffrey.io/writings/apprentice.html) to do my open source bidding.
  - hndude 11y ago
    Does your apprentice have to be local to you or can they be remote?
- cromwellryan 11y ago
  It would be awesome to have some from those areas. If you know of any: http://apprentice.at/submit/ http://apprentice.at/submit/
Kalium 11y ago
The four-year model is based around teaching fundamentals and then adding current technologies on top. In addition to being relatively slow, it often fails to teach the most recent set of technologies. However, I don't think apprenticeships are a good fit. The apprenticeship model is great for skills that do not change rapidly or need frequent updating. Carpentry five years ago is much the same as carpentry today. This works well because in such areas, you can afford to gloss over or just skip many fundamentals because the hands-on skills are all that will be needed for a multi-decade career. This model doesn't map well to development. Current technologies move fast. Adapt rapidly. One year's hot approach is the next's old broken crap. Our educational systems need to be designed around enabling people to adapt rapidly. The only way I know to do this is to teach people the fundamentals they need to adapt to anything within their field. I'm happy to entertain other approaches, but this seems like hammering a round peg into a square hole because using a square peg is inconvenient.
- edge17 11y ago
  There's a lot of less experienced folks that could just benefit from being around people that think in a programmatic mindset. I taught Python for a while at one of the bootcamps you hear about, and the biggest hurdle for me (the instructor) to overcome was getting a student (often times liberal arts background) to form strong mental structures for data structures, manipulating them mentally, etc. This is a good opportunity for somebody.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    The problem there is that our hypothetical student is trying to build a castle without a foundation. It's possible, abstractly speaking, but both unduly difficult and unlikely to end well. If by some miracle it doesn't fall over in the short term, it's highly likely to be a major problem when it comes time for serious renovations. I think the situation we're in is an uncomfortable one. Basically, the tech world needs people, and the four-year approach seems too slow. Sadly, nothing I've seen - and I've been affiliated with a bootcamp - seems to both provide the people required and give them the grounding for a career. We as an industry have this burning need to believe that there must be something better. However, I submit that this is the equivalent of protesting "There must be a better way!" when confronted with an uncomfortable policy decision. In both cases the sentiment is laudable, but fails to conjure the alternative into being. It is a good opportunity for somebody. As near as I can tell, that somebody is the four-year CS programs of the world. The only alternative I can see is bifurcating development work into high-skill people who know CS and low-skill code monkeys. I'm uncomfortable with this, but I suppose it could be workable. We'd just have to disabuse all those code monkeys of the illusion that they're going to become computer scientists.
    - edge17 11y ago
      I have no idea who your hypothetical students are, mine were real ones that were trying to retrain and enter the job force as developers. Certainly castles aren't built on good intentions, but people have to start somewhere. These apprenticeships are for like $500/week. That's not a good opportunity for some in a four-year CS program.
analog31 11y ago
Something I didn't get from the website was the actual difference between an apprenticeship, an internship, and a straightforward job. Also, there are legal distinctions surrounding what can be done with paid and unpaid interns, so it would be useful to know how an apprenticeship compares to all three of those other models.
- joelrunyon 11y ago
  Not sure about the legal differentiation, but a good practical explanation is here - http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Jobs-9-5-ebook/dp/B010L8SYRG http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Jobs-9-5-ebook/dp/B010L8SYRG
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- cromwellryan 11y ago
  Great insight!
scottmcdot 11y ago
Why the Austrian domain?
- wmboy 11y ago
  I assume they were going for a domain hack... apprentice at such-and-such company.
pboos 11y ago
Apprenticeship is nothing of the past! It is still done in some countries. And not poor countries. Switzerland for example. Read here: http://qz.com/122501/apprenticeships-make-young-people-in-switzerland-employable/ http://qz.com/122501/apprenticeships-make-young-people-in-sw...
- thwd 11y ago
  Yeah but they're nothing like this. An apprenticeship in CH lasts between 2 and 4 years, you get paid around 15k CHF and you go to school something like 2 days a week. Also, big-ish corporations have to take on apprentices by law.
orange_county 11y ago
Sounds great and seems to better process than bootcamps since you are actually getting paid. Albeit a little low, $500/week in SF for 3 months is kind of low. (iOS at ThoughtBot)
- notahacker 11y ago
  One of Thoughtbot's sample success stories was a graduate of not one but two paid bootcamps, and had industry work experience... To be good enough to try out at thoughtbot on a little less than Australian minimum wage, their baseline expectation is that you've already designed and shipped an app, probably work as a designer/developer for another company and are prepared to wait "several months" for them to deign to reply to you. On your knees, serfs!
nthnclrk 11y ago
I can't seem to find any reason to think of this as anything other than an internship rebranded. An apprenticeship doesn't have to be four years, but in 3-months I don't see anyone gaining any real fundamental depth of learning. Surface level skills? Sure. If this was a genuine "Apprenticeship" I'd expect anything from 18 months+
- tylerpachal 11y ago
  I agree with this. I did three co-op terms (I'm not sure how they're formally different from internships but anyways...) two of which were four months long, and one which was eight months long. I found that after three months, I was just getting to the point where I could make meaningful contributions. For my two four-month co-ops, this meant that I hardly got to contribute. I really preferred the eight month co-op term, where I felt like I was much more part of the team.
- nomercy400 11y ago
  I agree. Three months 'apprenticeship'? How is that different from a three month internship?
laurentoget 11y ago
"We expect that you will have your own equipment and your own software. Up&Up uses Macs and Adobe Creative Suite and will expect you will have a late model/version of each. " from http://www.upandup.agency/careersjob_id=job_20140721143320_PYKUIEK4CHAK5QZM http://www.upandup.agency/careersjob_id=job_20140721143320_P... the nerve...
- Kalium 11y ago
  So three months of that at their cited rate of pay will just about cover equipment costs... before you consider taxes.
- hmottestad 11y ago
  At least it is possible to "rent" all the Adobe Creative Suite software for 75$ a month.
- kmfrk 11y ago
  They probably require you to install Java as well. Barbarians …
- flexie 11y ago
  I have mixed feelings about that. You know, many young kids actually have a Mac already, and if not, a new Mac and a monthly subscription for Adobe costs a fraction of what 3 months in college costs. And if you've already spent a couple of years in college studying literature, algebra, music, philosophy, psychology, introduction to business and what not, you might just want some practical experience that within a few months could actually land you a job that provides a decent paycheck.
  - michaelt 11y ago
    you might just want some practical experience that within a few months could actually land you a job that provides a decent paycheck. It always struck me as ironic that student engineers, who are on track for well paid jobs, get offered paid internships; but student journalists, who are on course for poorly paid jobs, are expected to do unpaid internships - or even pay to do internships.
kriro 11y ago
I don't really see the difference between this and a good internship in the software development field. Usually you get a mentor and they nurture you fairly well or help you to help yourself (if it's a good internship and not a "oh free codemonkey" mindset). I'd say dev internships are way ahead of the curve compared to other industries. The real problem (imo) is that while there's a huge demand for developers at the end of the day it's still hard to program well and there's a potentially strong penalty on being sloppy while learning and on top of that the opportunity cost of people nurturing you from zero/a low level is pretty high. There's a difference between being able to glue working stuff together and understanding an existing codebase. Most jobs require the latter and solid engineering principles on top. I'm afraid there is no hotfix/silver bullet. Call this apprenticeship or whatever you want, I agree that the right step is taking time to develop talent even if it costs you money now. But the downside is that the workforce is ultramobile so you may invest a lot for no return. I think the management trainee programs of bigger companies could be an interesting model to investigate. They are essentially meant to groom and train future >middle management through on the job training in all areas of the company.
thomasfoster96 11y ago
This is just an internship rebranded, right? ...because my understanding of apprenticeships is that they are very very different to this concept (maybe it's different around the world - I'm from Australia).
anjc 11y ago
Apprenticeship? Any role I looked at there had significant requirements. "Must have intermediate knowledge of Swift" etc etc. That's not how apprenticeships work. If anything, this is a far worse version of an internship given that some of them are measuring the tenure in weeks. Edit: Hah. "Our apprenticeship is not a junior role. The majority of people who join thoughtbot as an apprentice leave a job working as a developer or designer to join us. Because it is such a high bar, even people who have been working in the industry for many years may not make it through the interview process." Insane. You've somehow managed to find a way to destroy the value of employment even further.
- paulojreis 11y ago
  > Insane. You've somehow managed to find a way to destroy the value of employment even further. The value of "work", I would say. But yeah, corporatism is insanely good at it, and worst of all, in a subversive way. The society (through education and others) is being silently shaped by corporatism tenets so that, by now, even grassroot-like movements - not at all affiliated with the major "interests" - live by these ideals.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
  Exactly an apprenticeship should be a minimum of 4 years and either do day release or block. And as some one who actually came into work (R&D based on campus at Cranfield) via the vocational route as a whats now called professional or higher apprenticeship. Back in the day if you had called us "apprentices" I and my pears woudl have told you to F%^K off.
  - chrisseaton 11y ago
    What were you called back then if not apprentices?
    - 11y ago
Bouncingsoul1 11y ago
Well, I was confused by the domain since I acutally did my apprenticeship and study in Austria (the one with mountains, no kangooros here). Well here it looks different, apprenticeship includes working for a company and going to a public school finishing with a certified diploma. These offerings on apprentice.at doesn't look anything like this.
Radle 11y ago
If you do apprenticeships, look at Germany how to do it correctly. Apprentice.at is not the solution to the problems you are facing.
klunger 11y ago
The appearance of these seems like a natural reaction to the rise of coding bootcamps. I can easily imagine how employers are hesitant to take on a newly minted bootcamp grad, but may consider an apprenticeship program (yeah, it's a dressed-up internship) as a kind of stepping stone / way to mitigate risk of taking on a jr. dev from one of the bootcamps.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
feedthebayer 11y ago
Background: I'm familiar with Sparkbox's 6 month paid apprenticeship and know a few people who went through it. I'm also a graduate of the http://bloc.io http://bloc.io full-stack apprenticeship. If I'm not mistaking, the current software "craftsman" and "apprenticeship" movement has been largely influenced by Dave Hoover's Apprenticeship Patterns (free on the web): http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001813/index.html http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001813/index.ht... A few quotes from that book: ============================================================ This book is written for software apprentices—for people who have had a taste of developing software and want to take it further, but need some guidance. Whether you have a college degree from a prestigious computer science program or are entirely self-taught, you recognize that there are great developers out there, and you aspire to achieve the same mastery that they possess. ... When discussing what it means to be an apprentice, Marten Gustafson, one of our interviewees, put it best when he said, “I guess it basically means having the attitude that there’s always a better/smarter/faster way to do what you just did and what you’re currently doing. Apprenticeship is the state/process of evolving and looking for better ways and finding people, companies and situations that force you to learn those better/smarter/faster ways.” We think there’s a lot of value in having this internal drive that is not dependent on anyone else to bestow solutions upon you, and that leads you to find constructive ways of dealing with problems. ... Apprenticeship is the beginning of your journey as a software craftsman. During this time you will be primarily focused inward, intent on growing your craftsmanship. While you will benefit from the attention of your peers and more experienced developers, you must learn to grow yourself, to learn how you learn. This focus on yourself and your need to grow is the essence of what it means to be an apprentice. ============================================================ In my mind, the key difference between an internship and apprenticeship is the focus and purpose. Generally, a company hires an intern as a cheap way to get extra help. Sure, they will help the intern as needed, but primarily so they can accomplish something for the company. Whereas, when a company takes on an apprentice, the primary focus is on providing an awesome, safe learning environment. Sure, the apprentice will likely do something of value for the company, but that's a side benefit. Also, generally people think internship == work while apprenticeship == learning. So technically there may not be a lot of difference, but I argue that the difference in paradigms has a large impact. --- I'm not familiar but any of the other apprenticeships, but Sparkbox's is much better than what's generally being discussed in the other comments here. You don't need to already have significant experience to join. All you need is an interest in web development. See more here: https://github.com/sparkbox/apprenticeships https://github.com/sparkbox/apprenticeships So don't let one company's program taint your view of the rest!
bphogan 11y ago
I expected something much different. I transitioned into teaching higher education a few years ago and I would love to partner with places to send my students after they complete their two-year associates degree. I think if I bootstrapped people with the basics of breaking down problems, building code, etc, and could then send them to a great apprentiship, that would change the way we view education. But what I see here is a very different than that. Most of my students wouldn't financially apply, let alone make it for skills. Some of the ads even state that people with industry experience wouldn't even make it through the interviews... so this looks at first glance like a way to get some cheap labor from semi-experienced developers. I don't know if that's what I want to see from our industry, and it makes me a little sad.

97 points by kangman 11y ago

shire 11y ago

Where is the Washington Apprenticeships, Seattle preferably :)

idibidiart 11y ago
start one
mathgladiator 11y ago
I am not affiliated with site, but I believe the apprenticeship model is good. I'm currently looking for a apprentice (http://jeffrey.io/writings/apprentice.html http://jeffrey.io/writings/apprentice.html) to do my open source bidding.
- hndude 11y ago
  Does your apprentice have to be local to you or can they be remote?
cromwellryan 11y ago
It would be awesome to have some from those areas. If you know of any: http://apprentice.at/submit/ http://apprentice.at/submit/

Kalium 11y ago

The four-year model is based around teaching fundamentals and then adding current technologies on top. In addition to being relatively slow, it often fails to teach the most recent set of technologies. However, I don't think apprenticeships are a good fit. The apprenticeship model is great for skills that do not change rapidly or need frequent updating. Carpentry five years ago is much the same as carpentry today. This works well because in such areas, you can afford to gloss over or just skip many fundamentals because the hands-on skills are all that will be needed for a multi-decade career. This model doesn't map well to development. Current technologies move fast. Adapt rapidly. One year's hot approach is the next's old broken crap. Our educational systems need to be designed around enabling people to adapt rapidly. The only way I know to do this is to teach people the fundamentals they need to adapt to anything within their field. I'm happy to entertain other approaches, but this seems like hammering a round peg into a square hole because using a square peg is inconvenient.

edge17 11y ago
There's a lot of less experienced folks that could just benefit from being around people that think in a programmatic mindset. I taught Python for a while at one of the bootcamps you hear about, and the biggest hurdle for me (the instructor) to overcome was getting a student (often times liberal arts background) to form strong mental structures for data structures, manipulating them mentally, etc. This is a good opportunity for somebody.
- Kalium 11y ago
  The problem there is that our hypothetical student is trying to build a castle without a foundation. It's possible, abstractly speaking, but both unduly difficult and unlikely to end well. If by some miracle it doesn't fall over in the short term, it's highly likely to be a major problem when it comes time for serious renovations. I think the situation we're in is an uncomfortable one. Basically, the tech world needs people, and the four-year approach seems too slow. Sadly, nothing I've seen - and I've been affiliated with a bootcamp - seems to both provide the people required and give them the grounding for a career. We as an industry have this burning need to believe that there must be something better. However, I submit that this is the equivalent of protesting "There must be a better way!" when confronted with an uncomfortable policy decision. In both cases the sentiment is laudable, but fails to conjure the alternative into being. It is a good opportunity for somebody. As near as I can tell, that somebody is the four-year CS programs of the world. The only alternative I can see is bifurcating development work into high-skill people who know CS and low-skill code monkeys. I'm uncomfortable with this, but I suppose it could be workable. We'd just have to disabuse all those code monkeys of the illusion that they're going to become computer scientists.
  - edge17 11y ago
    I have no idea who your hypothetical students are, mine were real ones that were trying to retrain and enter the job force as developers. Certainly castles aren't built on good intentions, but people have to start somewhere. These apprenticeships are for like $500/week. That's not a good opportunity for some in a four-year CS program.

analog31 11y ago

Something I didn't get from the website was the actual difference between an apprenticeship, an internship, and a straightforward job. Also, there are legal distinctions surrounding what can be done with paid and unpaid interns, so it would be useful to know how an apprenticeship compares to all three of those other models.

joelrunyon 11y ago
Not sure about the legal differentiation, but a good practical explanation is here - http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Jobs-9-5-ebook/dp/B010L8SYRG http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Jobs-9-5-ebook/dp/B010L8SYRG
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
cromwellryan 11y ago
Great insight!

scottmcdot 11y ago

Why the Austrian domain?

wmboy 11y ago
I assume they were going for a domain hack... apprentice at such-and-such company.

pboos 11y ago

Apprenticeship is nothing of the past! It is still done in some countries. And not poor countries. Switzerland for example. Read here: http://qz.com/122501/apprenticeships-make-young-people-in-switzerland-employable/ http://qz.com/122501/apprenticeships-make-young-people-in-sw...

thwd 11y ago
Yeah but they're nothing like this. An apprenticeship in CH lasts between 2 and 4 years, you get paid around 15k CHF and you go to school something like 2 days a week. Also, big-ish corporations have to take on apprentices by law.

orange_county 11y ago

Sounds great and seems to better process than bootcamps since you are actually getting paid. Albeit a little low, $500/week in SF for 3 months is kind of low. (iOS at ThoughtBot)

notahacker 11y ago
One of Thoughtbot's sample success stories was a graduate of not one but two paid bootcamps, and had industry work experience... To be good enough to try out at thoughtbot on a little less than Australian minimum wage, their baseline expectation is that you've already designed and shipped an app, probably work as a designer/developer for another company and are prepared to wait "several months" for them to deign to reply to you. On your knees, serfs!

nthnclrk 11y ago

I can't seem to find any reason to think of this as anything other than an internship rebranded. An apprenticeship doesn't have to be four years, but in 3-months I don't see anyone gaining any real fundamental depth of learning. Surface level skills? Sure. If this was a genuine "Apprenticeship" I'd expect anything from 18 months+

tylerpachal 11y ago
I agree with this. I did three co-op terms (I'm not sure how they're formally different from internships but anyways...) two of which were four months long, and one which was eight months long. I found that after three months, I was just getting to the point where I could make meaningful contributions. For my two four-month co-ops, this meant that I hardly got to contribute. I really preferred the eight month co-op term, where I felt like I was much more part of the team.
nomercy400 11y ago
I agree. Three months 'apprenticeship'? How is that different from a three month internship?

laurentoget 11y ago

"We expect that you will have your own equipment and your own software. Up&Up uses Macs and Adobe Creative Suite and will expect you will have a late model/version of each. " from http://www.upandup.agency/careersjob_id=job_20140721143320_PYKUIEK4CHAK5QZM http://www.upandup.agency/careersjob_id=job_20140721143320_P... the nerve...

Kalium 11y ago
So three months of that at their cited rate of pay will just about cover equipment costs... before you consider taxes.
hmottestad 11y ago
At least it is possible to "rent" all the Adobe Creative Suite software for 75$ a month.
kmfrk 11y ago
They probably require you to install Java as well. Barbarians …
flexie 11y ago
I have mixed feelings about that. You know, many young kids actually have a Mac already, and if not, a new Mac and a monthly subscription for Adobe costs a fraction of what 3 months in college costs. And if you've already spent a couple of years in college studying literature, algebra, music, philosophy, psychology, introduction to business and what not, you might just want some practical experience that within a few months could actually land you a job that provides a decent paycheck.
- michaelt 11y ago
  you might just want some practical experience that within a few months could actually land you a job that provides a decent paycheck. It always struck me as ironic that student engineers, who are on track for well paid jobs, get offered paid internships; but student journalists, who are on course for poorly paid jobs, are expected to do unpaid internships - or even pay to do internships.

kriro 11y ago

I don't really see the difference between this and a good internship in the software development field. Usually you get a mentor and they nurture you fairly well or help you to help yourself (if it's a good internship and not a "oh free codemonkey" mindset). I'd say dev internships are way ahead of the curve compared to other industries. The real problem (imo) is that while there's a huge demand for developers at the end of the day it's still hard to program well and there's a potentially strong penalty on being sloppy while learning and on top of that the opportunity cost of people nurturing you from zero/a low level is pretty high. There's a difference between being able to glue working stuff together and understanding an existing codebase. Most jobs require the latter and solid engineering principles on top. I'm afraid there is no hotfix/silver bullet. Call this apprenticeship or whatever you want, I agree that the right step is taking time to develop talent even if it costs you money now. But the downside is that the workforce is ultramobile so you may invest a lot for no return. I think the management trainee programs of bigger companies could be an interesting model to investigate. They are essentially meant to groom and train future >middle management through on the job training in all areas of the company.

thomasfoster96 11y ago

This is just an internship rebranded, right? ...because my understanding of apprenticeships is that they are very very different to this concept (maybe it's different around the world - I'm from Australia).

anjc 11y ago

Apprenticeship? Any role I looked at there had significant requirements. "Must have intermediate knowledge of Swift" etc etc. That's not how apprenticeships work. If anything, this is a far worse version of an internship given that some of them are measuring the tenure in weeks. Edit: Hah. "Our apprenticeship is not a junior role. The majority of people who join thoughtbot as an apprentice leave a job working as a developer or designer to join us. Because it is such a high bar, even people who have been working in the industry for many years may not make it through the interview process." Insane. You've somehow managed to find a way to destroy the value of employment even further.

paulojreis 11y ago
> Insane. You've somehow managed to find a way to destroy the value of employment even further. The value of "work", I would say. But yeah, corporatism is insanely good at it, and worst of all, in a subversive way. The society (through education and others) is being silently shaped by corporatism tenets so that, by now, even grassroot-like movements - not at all affiliated with the major "interests" - live by these ideals.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
Exactly an apprenticeship should be a minimum of 4 years and either do day release or block. And as some one who actually came into work (R&D based on campus at Cranfield) via the vocational route as a whats now called professional or higher apprenticeship. Back in the day if you had called us "apprentices" I and my pears woudl have told you to F%^K off.
- chrisseaton 11y ago
  What were you called back then if not apprentices?
  - 11y ago

Bouncingsoul1 11y ago

Well, I was confused by the domain since I acutally did my apprenticeship and study in Austria (the one with mountains, no kangooros here). Well here it looks different, apprenticeship includes working for a company and going to a public school finishing with a certified diploma. These offerings on apprentice.at doesn't look anything like this.

Radle 11y ago

If you do apprenticeships, look at Germany how to do it correctly. Apprentice.at is not the solution to the problems you are facing.

klunger 11y ago

The appearance of these seems like a natural reaction to the rise of coding bootcamps. I can easily imagine how employers are hesitant to take on a newly minted bootcamp grad, but may consider an apprenticeship program (yeah, it's a dressed-up internship) as a kind of stepping stone / way to mitigate risk of taking on a jr. dev from one of the bootcamps.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

feedthebayer 11y ago

Background: I'm familiar with Sparkbox's 6 month paid apprenticeship and know a few people who went through it. I'm also a graduate of the http://bloc.io http://bloc.io full-stack apprenticeship. If I'm not mistaking, the current software "craftsman" and "apprenticeship" movement has been largely influenced by Dave Hoover's Apprenticeship Patterns (free on the web): http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001813/index.html http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001813/index.ht... A few quotes from that book: ============================================================ This book is written for software apprentices—for people who have had a taste of developing software and want to take it further, but need some guidance. Whether you have a college degree from a prestigious computer science program or are entirely self-taught, you recognize that there are great developers out there, and you aspire to achieve the same mastery that they possess. ... When discussing what it means to be an apprentice, Marten Gustafson, one of our interviewees, put it best when he said, “I guess it basically means having the attitude that there’s always a better/smarter/faster way to do what you just did and what you’re currently doing. Apprenticeship is the state/process of evolving and looking for better ways and finding people, companies and situations that force you to learn those better/smarter/faster ways.” We think there’s a lot of value in having this internal drive that is not dependent on anyone else to bestow solutions upon you, and that leads you to find constructive ways of dealing with problems. ... Apprenticeship is the beginning of your journey as a software craftsman. During this time you will be primarily focused inward, intent on growing your craftsmanship. While you will benefit from the attention of your peers and more experienced developers, you must learn to grow yourself, to learn how you learn. This focus on yourself and your need to grow is the essence of what it means to be an apprentice. ============================================================ In my mind, the key difference between an internship and apprenticeship is the focus and purpose. Generally, a company hires an intern as a cheap way to get extra help. Sure, they will help the intern as needed, but primarily so they can accomplish something for the company. Whereas, when a company takes on an apprentice, the primary focus is on providing an awesome, safe learning environment. Sure, the apprentice will likely do something of value for the company, but that's a side benefit. Also, generally people think internship == work while apprenticeship == learning. So technically there may not be a lot of difference, but I argue that the difference in paradigms has a large impact. --- I'm not familiar but any of the other apprenticeships, but Sparkbox's is much better than what's generally being discussed in the other comments here. You don't need to already have significant experience to join. All you need is an interest in web development. See more here: https://github.com/sparkbox/apprenticeships https://github.com/sparkbox/apprenticeships So don't let one company's program taint your view of the rest!

bphogan 11y ago

I expected something much different. I transitioned into teaching higher education a few years ago and I would love to partner with places to send my students after they complete their two-year associates degree. I think if I bootstrapped people with the basics of breaking down problems, building code, etc, and could then send them to a great apprentiship, that would change the way we view education. But what I see here is a very different than that. Most of my students wouldn't financially apply, let alone make it for skills. Some of the ads even state that people with industry experience wouldn't even make it through the interviews... so this looks at first glance like a way to get some cheap labor from semi-experienced developers. I don't know if that's what I want to see from our industry, and it makes me a little sad.