gonvaled

29 ms·

331.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Please stop playing semantics: the central government has the power to trigger a Constitution change to allow for referendums. So far it has refused. It has the power to send police to stop voting in a non-legal referendum, and it has done
332.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Because the central government refuses to allow for a real referendum. But tell me, how do I vote for "yes" independence if, say, I only agree with the political program of the socialist party, not part of the "yes" coal
333.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Why is a border so sacred for you? A border is there to serve people, not the other way around.
334.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Don"t follow you. Are you are too old to believe in the fairy tale of honestly implementing your campaign promises, so you prefer the proven method of lying to the ellectorate? What honest politicians you old realists aspire to: those
335.
by gonvaled 9y ago
That is true for primitive societies. Modern, civiliced societies do not resort to violence when they lose the war of words and persuassion. It is not clear we are in a modern era.
336.
by gonvaled 9y ago
I mean a Constitution is not, and must not be, respected if it goes against the will of a big part of the population. A state constitution must offer a framework which is interesting for all of its peoples and territories: if big groups of
337.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Excellent! Do you have more irregular verbs?
338.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Because they feel they have a mandate? Or said differently, what would you do? You campaigned for it, organized a referendum, won it and now you do not follow through? What would your voters say?
339.
by gonvaled 9y ago
And that is exactly the problem. A state constitution which is unable to adapt to a changing society is destined to irrelevance. Authority emanates from people, not from papers.
340.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Tax money will still flow, but it will b administered by other people. Actually, that is one of the central demands by catalans: money should not "flow" to Catalonia via Spain.
341.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Only the other side indoctrinates, didn´t you know that!?
342.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Mmmm, that would degenerate rapidly into civil disobedience. It is hard to see how the central Spanish government can change the opinions of a big part of Catalan society by playing hard ball. I would say that the harder they go, the most p
343.
by gonvaled 9y ago
This was to be discussed while organizing the referendum. Sadly, the Spanish government refused to even consider the idea.
344.
by gonvaled 9y ago
True, and this already happened in the last elections to the Catalan Parliament (Generalitat). But it's sad to fake referendums by hijacking elections, which exist for completely different reasons. This just mixes and confounds lots of
345.
by gonvaled 9y ago
It could, but let's remember that the Catalan process to independence has been extremely peaceful for over 40 years.
346.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Not true. People came to the polls wearing Spanish flags. No violence. The Catalan process has thankfully been extremely peaceful. People did not vote in the referendum because it was not officially recognized as such. Because the Spanish g
347.
by gonvaled 9y ago
A high turnout with a overwhelming vote for independence would have made it politically impossible to ignore. So they chose the next worse option: violent crack down. The least bad option would have been a negotiated referendum, with the fu
348.
by gonvaled 9y ago
That is indeed the core of the problem. Catalans have so far only been offered fake alternatives: "Reform the Constitution", for which they will never have a majority.
349.
by gonvaled 9y ago
I am really not qualified to give my opinion on fiscal issues - as most people are not. For details on these complex problems we must trust (interested) third parties, so our perceptions are necessarily biased. I do not follow neither Spani
350.
by gonvaled 9y ago
> is it your opinion that unilateral secession of any region, under any circumstances is democratic by definition? I find that very strange. I don't agree. Definitely not, not under any circumstance. But if backed by a big (60%?) pa
351.
by gonvaled 9y ago
> Yes, it was agreed and allowed under local law. Catalonian's referendum was not. It's not legal. Needs to be agreed upon. There is no way Catalans could organize a legal referendum. That's something which is not going to
352.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Sure I can, I am Spanish and Catalan, so I can read the Catalan version too (not particularly interested in any of both versions). Whatever the Truth behind all those complex questions is, at some point this becomes a matter of opinion. And
353.
by gonvaled 9y ago
> treason and sedition What is this? Treason to what? Something they do not believe in? Sedition? By definition, but not necessarily with the negative connotation of your word choice. Regional vs national government? This is exactly what
354.
by gonvaled 9y ago
> The article gives sound reasons why it shouldn't and why holding the vote is _antidemocratic_. There may of course be good counterarguments but they aren't being made. I'd like to see them, not childlike miscomprehension
355.
by gonvaled 9y ago
Things could get out of hand very easily: the Catalan government has been supportive (organizer) of the whole process, and will probably be willing to clash with the Spanish government (hopefully not violently) to defend the newly formed re
356.
by gonvaled 9y ago
When I say "overwhelmingly" I refer to the desire to vote, not to the opinion that people hold. There is probably no supermajority, but we are not allowed to know about it since voting seems to be illegal. All we have is 40% turno
357.
by gonvaled 9y ago
The Spanish government has had years, if not decades, to accommodate the aspirations of the Catalan population, but it has chosen to either ignore them or to actively work against them. This process is a consequence of a flowing society cra
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by gonvaled 9y ago
All thanks to the spanish government.
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by gonvaled 9y ago
The chance to make it more representative was yesterday, and the spanish government chose not to.
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by gonvaled 9y ago
Not answering point by point, but this is just a referendum in 40 years, overwhelmingly wanted by catalans, and just about moving borders, not sterilising anybody. And yes, police has been sent.

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