7 ms·

Reading this as a European, it's fun and telling that you focused on salary differences, whereas what mattered to me were the other quality-of-life elements (I

by fab13n 11y ago

Reading this as a European, it's fun and telling that you focused on salary differences, whereas what mattered to me were the other quality-of-life elements (I assume you're living in the US). To sum up, what matters to me, in what she described, were the consequences of the belief that one shouldn't be ashamed of having a life outside of work, and needing some time and peace of mind to actually enjoy it. More money won't make me happier if I don't have holidays, week-ends, and some time during workdays to actually enjoy spending it, without being chronically on the verge of a burn-out. This is common sense in Europe, whereas it seems to be considered leftist heresy in the US.

hn_user2 11y ago
Did parent edit? Because all I see is work-life balance.
adventured 11y ago
In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. You can pursue your life and goals based on what you want out of it. Is that not true in Switzerland? I think you've bought into little more than propaganda. Americans take off weekends. And how do you judge 330 million people when it comes to burn-out, given the vast differences among them all?
- Daishiman 11y ago
  BS. I have seen far fewer Americans in a position where they can take the Friday afternoons off like a lot of Europeans can. Or extended paternity leaves. Or sabbaticals. I have yet to see a software company in the US with the amount of time off as European companies despite the fact that most of the people I know in the US would trade salary for time off. It's simply a race to the bottom; with no incentive for employers to reduce the number of working hours (because there are no laws for it, because white collar employees are exempt from overtime, because Americans stupidly believe that they can't achieve work improvements through collective bargaining), it is obvious that they will attempt to squeeze as much work out of employees up to, but not beyond, the point of futility.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    America needs sane ("first world") labor regulations (mandatory vacation/sick time, longer maternity/paternity leave, etc).
    - tluyben2 11y ago
      I have come to believe, for better or worse, that you cannot be the leading economical force with those things in place. I think it is needed for that.
      - Daishiman 11y ago
        The most productive places in the US also have relatively strong labor laws and labor unions. I'm not implying a causal relationship, just saying that it can't be that bad.
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  > In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. So the millions of poor people having to work two or three shitty jobs just to make ends meet chose to do so and want to live like that? Bullshit. Go watch some documentaries about the subject.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    The number of people who can choose their job based on how they want to live is dwindling rapidly.
jqm 11y ago
More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.
- ido 11y ago
  More time off would make me happier. I'd give up $10k/year for it. $90k/year is enough money. Besides, few pleasures compare to spending quality time with your loved ones. So now we have two pieces of anecdotal evidence, worth exactly twice as much as one (2*0)
  - jqm 11y ago
    So do it. Do what makes you happy. If you aren't happy working or you don't get enough time off... change the situation. But don't spend a bunch of your life unsatisfied.
    - enraged_camel 11y ago
      The vast majority of Americans simply do not have that choice. They can't go to their boss and say, "hey boss, I want to take a 10% pay cut and get an extra 2 weeks off." American work culture simply doesn't allow that.
      - jqm 11y ago
        Any smart boss with decision making power should instantly give workers an additional 2 weeks off for a 10% pay cut. (Assuming the workers work more than 20 weeks a year and their duties can be taken up by someone else). It's pure profit at that point. That aside... there is always a choice. Don't ever think otherwise. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to drive a nice car. Always a choice. It's just a matter of tradeoffs.
        voidz 11y ago
        It's not profit, it's saving money. But also less production. You get my point.
jstuxx 11y ago
I'm a European living in Europe, could you please stop spreading propaganda. Europe is a POOR place, it's not this egalitarian paradise the media makes it out to be. People here are poor and desperate, they are exploited daily and treated like slave labour not much different from the Chinese. What work life-balance are you talking about, sure you have a life after 6 pm when you get home from work, and on weekends but how is this any different from the US. I've seen people lose it in the work place as in start throwing things, breaking office equipment, overturning desks and threatening to kill their managers some have even tried and had to be dragged out by security, all because they have been pushed to their limits. Holidays, week-ends and working without being chronically on the verge of a burn-out is considered socialism aka communism in Europe, if you want that you are considered lazy like the Greeks and Eastern Europeans (note that is not my view of them) i.e. wanting free money without hard work. I don't know how its like in the US but please do not paint a false image of Europe.
jstuxx 11y ago
P.S. Most Europeans don't own a home because homes here cost at least half a million Euros out of reach for average Joe. Owning your own home is common sense in the US, even if it's a crappy home it's still your own place. Europeans live their entire life under the extortion of renting, they live on the property of landlords who will charge them for the oxygen they breath. Also there is NO difference between West Europe and East Europe, the only difference is the rent prices otherwise the poor quality of life is the same. Stop spreading mis-information.
tluyben2 11y ago
Well. Not sure if this is the EU only but I am from the Netherlands and moved to Spain. Cost went down, quality of life is so much higher it now seems like a joke I ever lived in the Netherlands. And was born there. If quality of life is what you are working for the south of the EU is something to consider. Disclaimer: I am very leftish ( I was very right when I was young; if you will not work fuck off ) by circumstance : by design of what you and me do, there will be no jobs like there are now. And people cannot die in the streets so we need to change things. I spend all my waking ours trying to do that and loving it.
- jstuxx 11y ago
  I've lived in Spain, it's joke since we all here how great the civilized modern organized North where people work hard unlike the barbaric chaotic south filled with lazy who just want holidays and don't pay their taxes. If quality of life is what anyone's looking for, get rich, sacrifice your youth if you have to be, and then retire young (mid-40's early 50's) to some tropical island or some country in South America like Ecuador or Uruguay. The EU is not a good place to be, it is continually getting worse for the people, people are getting angry and people are starting to get violent in some countries.

by fab13n 11y ago

hn_user2 11y ago

Did parent edit? Because all I see is work-life balance.

adventured 11y ago

In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. You can pursue your life and goals based on what you want out of it. Is that not true in Switzerland? I think you've bought into little more than propaganda. Americans take off weekends. And how do you judge 330 million people when it comes to burn-out, given the vast differences among them all?

Daishiman 11y ago
BS. I have seen far fewer Americans in a position where they can take the Friday afternoons off like a lot of Europeans can. Or extended paternity leaves. Or sabbaticals. I have yet to see a software company in the US with the amount of time off as European companies despite the fact that most of the people I know in the US would trade salary for time off. It's simply a race to the bottom; with no incentive for employers to reduce the number of working hours (because there are no laws for it, because white collar employees are exempt from overtime, because Americans stupidly believe that they can't achieve work improvements through collective bargaining), it is obvious that they will attempt to squeeze as much work out of employees up to, but not beyond, the point of futility.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  America needs sane ("first world") labor regulations (mandatory vacation/sick time, longer maternity/paternity leave, etc).
  - tluyben2 11y ago
    I have come to believe, for better or worse, that you cannot be the leading economical force with those things in place. I think it is needed for that.
    - Daishiman 11y ago
      The most productive places in the US also have relatively strong labor laws and labor unions. I'm not implying a causal relationship, just saying that it can't be that bad.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
> In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. So the millions of poor people having to work two or three shitty jobs just to make ends meet chose to do so and want to live like that? Bullshit. Go watch some documentaries about the subject.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  The number of people who can choose their job based on how they want to live is dwindling rapidly.

jqm 11y ago

More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.

ido 11y ago
More time off would make me happier. I'd give up $10k/year for it. $90k/year is enough money. Besides, few pleasures compare to spending quality time with your loved ones. So now we have two pieces of anecdotal evidence, worth exactly twice as much as one (2*0)
- jqm 11y ago
  So do it. Do what makes you happy. If you aren't happy working or you don't get enough time off... change the situation. But don't spend a bunch of your life unsatisfied.
  - enraged_camel 11y ago
    The vast majority of Americans simply do not have that choice. They can't go to their boss and say, "hey boss, I want to take a 10% pay cut and get an extra 2 weeks off." American work culture simply doesn't allow that.
    - jqm 11y ago
      Any smart boss with decision making power should instantly give workers an additional 2 weeks off for a 10% pay cut. (Assuming the workers work more than 20 weeks a year and their duties can be taken up by someone else). It's pure profit at that point. That aside... there is always a choice. Don't ever think otherwise. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to drive a nice car. Always a choice. It's just a matter of tradeoffs.
      - voidz 11y ago
        It's not profit, it's saving money. But also less production. You get my point.

jstuxx 11y ago

I'm a European living in Europe, could you please stop spreading propaganda. Europe is a POOR place, it's not this egalitarian paradise the media makes it out to be. People here are poor and desperate, they are exploited daily and treated like slave labour not much different from the Chinese. What work life-balance are you talking about, sure you have a life after 6 pm when you get home from work, and on weekends but how is this any different from the US. I've seen people lose it in the work place as in start throwing things, breaking office equipment, overturning desks and threatening to kill their managers some have even tried and had to be dragged out by security, all because they have been pushed to their limits. Holidays, week-ends and working without being chronically on the verge of a burn-out is considered socialism aka communism in Europe, if you want that you are considered lazy like the Greeks and Eastern Europeans (note that is not my view of them) i.e. wanting free money without hard work. I don't know how its like in the US but please do not paint a false image of Europe.

jstuxx 11y ago

P.S. Most Europeans don't own a home because homes here cost at least half a million Euros out of reach for average Joe. Owning your own home is common sense in the US, even if it's a crappy home it's still your own place. Europeans live their entire life under the extortion of renting, they live on the property of landlords who will charge them for the oxygen they breath. Also there is NO difference between West Europe and East Europe, the only difference is the rent prices otherwise the poor quality of life is the same. Stop spreading mis-information.

tluyben2 11y ago

Well. Not sure if this is the EU only but I am from the Netherlands and moved to Spain. Cost went down, quality of life is so much higher it now seems like a joke I ever lived in the Netherlands. And was born there. If quality of life is what you are working for the south of the EU is something to consider. Disclaimer: I am very leftish ( I was very right when I was young; if you will not work fuck off ) by circumstance : by design of what you and me do, there will be no jobs like there are now. And people cannot die in the streets so we need to change things. I spend all my waking ours trying to do that and loving it.

jstuxx 11y ago
I've lived in Spain, it's joke since we all here how great the civilized modern organized North where people work hard unlike the barbaric chaotic south filled with lazy who just want holidays and don't pay their taxes. If quality of life is what anyone's looking for, get rich, sacrifice your youth if you have to be, and then retire young (mid-40's early 50's) to some tropical island or some country in South America like Ecuador or Uruguay. The EU is not a good place to be, it is continually getting worse for the people, people are getting angry and people are starting to get violent in some countries.