8 ms·

I think article skips anything negative. For start "lunch hour" is mandatory and in reality it means you spend extra hour at work. I would rather spend a hour

by jkot 11y ago

I think article skips anything negative. For start "lunch hour" is mandatory and in reality it means you spend extra hour at work. I would rather spend a hour with my kid than eating with my boss. Second the taxation leaves various compulsory "contributions": social, pension, wealth, tv, petrol etc. It is not 5% but more likely 50% of average salary. And third, I have totally different experience with american companies. All american corporations I worked for had strong life-work balance, holidays etc.

perfTerm 11y ago
Yea, and you're also a software engineer judging by your profile. Lets not pretend what we experience is the same as the average American experience.
chaostheory 11y ago
There's one thing I'm interested in since this is on HN... How easy is it to start a venture over there? Also, my old roommate from college works at CERN now as a researcher. He tells me that he can't afford to go out and eat since it's so expensive. Is this true?
- Vespasian 11y ago
  I don't know anything about starting a company in Switzerland but as someone living next to the swiss border I can tell you it's really expensive to live there. On a typical weekend the supermarkets on the german side of the border are filled with swiss people buying all sort of everyday stuff like food. Gas is typically somewhat cheaper which is why equally many people cross the other way. ;)
- peterjancelis 11y ago
  There are some smart contracts / blockchain tpye startups in Zug. Monetas for example. You could reach out to them.
- Lukas_Skywalker 11y ago
  There are some agencies which help you set all the paperwork up for free. You have to deposit 20k swiss francs on a locked bank account (the amount) you can be held liable for, founding and entry into the central corporation register costs 1-2k.
- pldrnt 11y ago
  I work there. It is indeed expensive but salaries can change wildly depending on your position. I think I could afford to go out and eat out but I decided not to. This way I save money to bootstrap my own thing afterwards and I can find some free time to teach myself the skills I will need to do so. The procedure to start a venture depends on the canton, expect to put in at least 10k to start, plus whatever the notarial fees will be. I do not think I will be incorporating here.
- lordnacho 11y ago
  Since I live in Switzerland, I'll try to address these issues for you. >There's one thing I'm interested in since this is on HN... How easy is it to start a venture over there? On paper, it's easy. You go to a bank, deposit either 20K or 50K depending on your corporation type, and they give you a letter. You take the letter to a notary, and the bank gets a doc from him. They put your money in your new company's account. Whole process may cost you 2.5K in notary fees and a few hundred more in government fees. Of course, there's some more things a company needs than mere existence. If you're looking for capital, it isn't SV. But they do have government programs to help startups and that sort of networking thing. There's contests. What I mostly see though is high-tech university type stuff rather than "guys hacking in a garage". There's also a number of designated venture parks where you can find cheap office space and infrastructure. A friend of mine rents one in Luzern, and my wife went to see some in the one in Zurich. They're reasonably large buildings, but not entire towns like in SF. >Also, my old roommate from college works at CERN now as a researcher. He tells me that he can't afford to go out and eat since it's so expensive. Is this true? It is ridiculously expensive to eat out in this country, and your friend is probably not exaggerating. A pizza can easily cost 25 CHF. You can't do a meal at a middling restaurant for less than 100CHF. And the food is not great for the price. I've been to Michelin star places that cost less money than an ordinary meal at a Swiss restaurant.
Havoc 11y ago
>eating with my boss. Why? Lunch hour is your own time - I doubt any European places actually require that you spend it with your boss. Hell I walk home, cook a (fast) meal and chill for a bit.
sampo 11y ago
> For start "lunch hour" is mandatory and in reality it means you spend extra hour at work. I would rather spend a hour with my kid than eating with my boss. Her boss invited her to lunch for one time, just to demonstrate that lunch is supposed to be (in Switzerland) something else than eating a sandwich at your desk. If you read 4 sentences further, there is: "When I was on maternity leave, my husband came home for lunch to help me care for our daughter." So you are free to spend the lunch hour however, also visiting your home and children. Lunch with boss is not mandatory.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  Taking the lunch break isn't optional however. Not sure exactly but I think I'm required to have a 40-45 min lunch break, which doesn't count towards my daily 8h of work. In practice as I'm in a white collar job with flexible hours, this doesn't matter so much. I count as work when I check my email while commuting. If I take a lunch at my desk because something needs to be fixed, I count it as work. Simple as that.
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  >So you are free to spend the lunch hour however, also visiting your home and children. Sure, if my job is very close to my house. Otherwise it's an hour spent neither working nor at home.
  - sampo 11y ago
    > Sure, if my job is very close to my house. I'd guess that is indeed quite common in Switzerland. So having a 1 hour lunch break in the middle of the day makes sense for them, but would not make sense in the US, where much longer commutes are the norm.
    - alkonaut 11y ago
      The commutes are just the other side of the same coin: The way the US treats it's work/life balance has had deeper consequences. If you aren't expected to leave the kids to school and also have dinner with them at 5pm, then you might just as well work a long day. And since you are working late anyway, you could just as well have a longer commute. On a weekday, work is expected to be a full day. Not just half the day. The 2yo will be asleep when you come home anyway. So imho the sprawling city is born from not just the car culture, also the work/life balance culture. If you are supposed to leave kids at 8 and pick them up at 4 then obviously a 1h commute isn't really doable. Public transit and compact cities follow naturally from that.
Frozenlock 11y ago
I never understood the ripoff that the "lunch hour" was. So... you are going to keep me away from other stuff, but I'm not paid for it? Also, you might not be hungry. If you live on a low carb high fat diet, you can easily go 12 hours or more without feeling the need to eat something. And some companies will even go to the length of banning sites like youtube. "Try to kill an hour... but we'll remove anything that could distract you... Have fun twiddling your thumbs!"
- sampo 11y ago
  I guess lunch hour is much nicer if your home is under 10 minutes from work. If your commute is longer than 30 minutes, going home for lunch hour makes no sense.
- Kirth 11y ago
  Because this concept stems from a time when people still performed physical work and had to eat at least 3 full meals spread over the day to stay healthy (enough). Reading the comments here makes me realise how firmly embedded the "time not spent working is time wasted" attitude is.
  - Frozenlock 11y ago
    > Reading the comments here makes me realise how firmly embedded the "time not spent working is time wasted" attitude is. Time spent not working is NOT time wasted. Time spent away from what I love, while not being paid IS.
smoe 11y ago
Labour laws in Switzerland demand a 15 minute break for >5.5h working days, 30 minutes for >7h and 60 minutes for >9h. [0] This is mostly to protect the employees and depending on the sector, people are pretty flexible about that. Lot of people I know just eat a sandwich at the desk and leave earlier in the evening. After compulsory taxes and insurances, a swiss household has on average 70.9% of their income left for spending. [1] [0] https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19640049/index.html#a15 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19640049/... [1] http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/themen/20/02/blank/key/einkommen0/niveau.html http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/themen/20/02/bla...
geff82 11y ago
wrong in some aspects. As in most European countries an hour off at noon is mandatory, so you can't leave early for family. Tax is indeed not 5% (only the federal part), but rather 10-20% depending on where you live and how much you make. Including social contributions you can expect to go 25-30% away.

by jkot 11y ago

perfTerm 11y ago

Yea, and you're also a software engineer judging by your profile. Lets not pretend what we experience is the same as the average American experience.

chaostheory 11y ago

There's one thing I'm interested in since this is on HN... How easy is it to start a venture over there? Also, my old roommate from college works at CERN now as a researcher. He tells me that he can't afford to go out and eat since it's so expensive. Is this true?

Vespasian 11y ago
I don't know anything about starting a company in Switzerland but as someone living next to the swiss border I can tell you it's really expensive to live there. On a typical weekend the supermarkets on the german side of the border are filled with swiss people buying all sort of everyday stuff like food. Gas is typically somewhat cheaper which is why equally many people cross the other way. ;)
peterjancelis 11y ago
There are some smart contracts / blockchain tpye startups in Zug. Monetas for example. You could reach out to them.
Lukas_Skywalker 11y ago
There are some agencies which help you set all the paperwork up for free. You have to deposit 20k swiss francs on a locked bank account (the amount) you can be held liable for, founding and entry into the central corporation register costs 1-2k.
pldrnt 11y ago
I work there. It is indeed expensive but salaries can change wildly depending on your position. I think I could afford to go out and eat out but I decided not to. This way I save money to bootstrap my own thing afterwards and I can find some free time to teach myself the skills I will need to do so. The procedure to start a venture depends on the canton, expect to put in at least 10k to start, plus whatever the notarial fees will be. I do not think I will be incorporating here.
lordnacho 11y ago
Since I live in Switzerland, I'll try to address these issues for you. >There's one thing I'm interested in since this is on HN... How easy is it to start a venture over there? On paper, it's easy. You go to a bank, deposit either 20K or 50K depending on your corporation type, and they give you a letter. You take the letter to a notary, and the bank gets a doc from him. They put your money in your new company's account. Whole process may cost you 2.5K in notary fees and a few hundred more in government fees. Of course, there's some more things a company needs than mere existence. If you're looking for capital, it isn't SV. But they do have government programs to help startups and that sort of networking thing. There's contests. What I mostly see though is high-tech university type stuff rather than "guys hacking in a garage". There's also a number of designated venture parks where you can find cheap office space and infrastructure. A friend of mine rents one in Luzern, and my wife went to see some in the one in Zurich. They're reasonably large buildings, but not entire towns like in SF. >Also, my old roommate from college works at CERN now as a researcher. He tells me that he can't afford to go out and eat since it's so expensive. Is this true? It is ridiculously expensive to eat out in this country, and your friend is probably not exaggerating. A pizza can easily cost 25 CHF. You can't do a meal at a middling restaurant for less than 100CHF. And the food is not great for the price. I've been to Michelin star places that cost less money than an ordinary meal at a Swiss restaurant.

Havoc 11y ago

>eating with my boss. Why? Lunch hour is your own time - I doubt any European places actually require that you spend it with your boss. Hell I walk home, cook a (fast) meal and chill for a bit.

sampo 11y ago

> For start "lunch hour" is mandatory and in reality it means you spend extra hour at work. I would rather spend a hour with my kid than eating with my boss. Her boss invited her to lunch for one time, just to demonstrate that lunch is supposed to be (in Switzerland) something else than eating a sandwich at your desk. If you read 4 sentences further, there is: "When I was on maternity leave, my husband came home for lunch to help me care for our daughter." So you are free to spend the lunch hour however, also visiting your home and children. Lunch with boss is not mandatory.

alkonaut 11y ago
Taking the lunch break isn't optional however. Not sure exactly but I think I'm required to have a 40-45 min lunch break, which doesn't count towards my daily 8h of work. In practice as I'm in a white collar job with flexible hours, this doesn't matter so much. I count as work when I check my email while commuting. If I take a lunch at my desk because something needs to be fixed, I count it as work. Simple as that.
Dylan16807 11y ago
>So you are free to spend the lunch hour however, also visiting your home and children. Sure, if my job is very close to my house. Otherwise it's an hour spent neither working nor at home.
- sampo 11y ago
  > Sure, if my job is very close to my house. I'd guess that is indeed quite common in Switzerland. So having a 1 hour lunch break in the middle of the day makes sense for them, but would not make sense in the US, where much longer commutes are the norm.
  - alkonaut 11y ago
    The commutes are just the other side of the same coin: The way the US treats it's work/life balance has had deeper consequences. If you aren't expected to leave the kids to school and also have dinner with them at 5pm, then you might just as well work a long day. And since you are working late anyway, you could just as well have a longer commute. On a weekday, work is expected to be a full day. Not just half the day. The 2yo will be asleep when you come home anyway. So imho the sprawling city is born from not just the car culture, also the work/life balance culture. If you are supposed to leave kids at 8 and pick them up at 4 then obviously a 1h commute isn't really doable. Public transit and compact cities follow naturally from that.

Frozenlock 11y ago

I never understood the ripoff that the "lunch hour" was. So... you are going to keep me away from other stuff, but I'm not paid for it? Also, you might not be hungry. If you live on a low carb high fat diet, you can easily go 12 hours or more without feeling the need to eat something. And some companies will even go to the length of banning sites like youtube. "Try to kill an hour... but we'll remove anything that could distract you... Have fun twiddling your thumbs!"

sampo 11y ago
I guess lunch hour is much nicer if your home is under 10 minutes from work. If your commute is longer than 30 minutes, going home for lunch hour makes no sense.
Kirth 11y ago
Because this concept stems from a time when people still performed physical work and had to eat at least 3 full meals spread over the day to stay healthy (enough). Reading the comments here makes me realise how firmly embedded the "time not spent working is time wasted" attitude is.
- Frozenlock 11y ago
  > Reading the comments here makes me realise how firmly embedded the "time not spent working is time wasted" attitude is. Time spent not working is NOT time wasted. Time spent away from what I love, while not being paid IS.

smoe 11y ago

Labour laws in Switzerland demand a 15 minute break for >5.5h working days, 30 minutes for >7h and 60 minutes for >9h. [0] This is mostly to protect the employees and depending on the sector, people are pretty flexible about that. Lot of people I know just eat a sandwich at the desk and leave earlier in the evening. After compulsory taxes and insurances, a swiss household has on average 70.9% of their income left for spending. [1] [0] https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19640049/index.html#a15 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19640049/... [1] http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/themen/20/02/blank/key/einkommen0/niveau.html http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/themen/20/02/bla...

geff82 11y ago

wrong in some aspects. As in most European countries an hour off at noon is mandatory, so you can't leave early for family. Tax is indeed not 5% (only the federal part), but rather 10-20% depending on where you live and how much you make. Including social contributions you can expect to go 25-30% away.