5 ms·

When I was training for my pilot license, my instructor was very clear about this point: "Your responsibility is to NOT get into an accident. It doesn't matter

by pm24601 11y ago

When I was training for my pilot license, my instructor was very clear about this point: "Your responsibility is to NOT get into an accident. It doesn't matter what the air traffic controller said, what I told you to do, or what the other guy did. If you collide with another plane - IT IS YOUR FAULT. You are the PIC." This absolute responsibility is well placed when even a "fender bender" is death for all. It sounds like the military pilot didn't get taught that concept.

tacticus 11y ago
Very first time i went up as an air cadet we all received this lecture. And it is entirely the case.
ngoede 11y ago
It seems terribly unfair that in this situation the person behaving recklessly had the best tools for surviving after the crash happened. Just how things go I guess.
- Retric 11y ago
  This is actually part of why the United States Air Force skips over a lot of 'important' general aviation training. The Air Force goal is to quickly train people for very specific and demanding roles and the tools to be say a great glider pilot are considered relatively unimportant. Unfortunately, AF pilots often confuse the ability to excel in specific very demanding roles as far more general aviation experience.
  - thrill 11y ago
    And on what do you base that statement?
  - TuxerLulz 11y ago
    This is actually fairly untrue, as the AF is one of the only curriculum that enforces glider training. An ATP (air transport pilot) needs 1500h at least, but none of them in a glider :)
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - neurotech1 11y ago
    This is incorrect. The USAF put great emphasis on airmanship, to a level beyond what it expected for a GA pilot in a Cessna. Also, the USAF Academy is famous for their gliding program. One of the glider pilots who trained at USAFA subsequently flew as US Airlines 1549 and glided into the Hudson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger#Military_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger#Military_...
    - Retric 11y ago
      There are two main tracks in the AF, bomber/cargo/tankers get have a much larger emphasis on gliding as fighter’s really can't glide for crap. "Approximately 50 percent of cadets are enrolled in a soaring course during their third-class year." http://www.academyadmissions.com/the-experience/military/airmanship/ http://www.academyadmissions.com/the-experience/military/air... The AF does promote people learning more general skills in their free time, but fighter jets are very special aircraft and that tracks focus is defiantly on becoming a better fighter pilot not just a well rounded pilot.
peckrob 11y ago
Same here. My instructor was very clear that I, as the PIC, was responsible for maintaining clearance from other airplanes at all times regardless of what ATC says. Even if I am operating in controlled airspace, ultimately, the authority over what happens to me and my airplane is my responsibility alone. While traffic callouts are nice to have and I really appreciate ATC giving me heads up when I'm flying, I still spend the majority of my flying time looking out the windows for other airplanes. Especially before making any turn or other maneuver where I might have limited view, always dip the wings to check the area first. Unfortunately, I know some pilots who fly as if they've never seen a radio. Used to do a lot of flying out of a semi-uncontrolled field (it's untowered, but right under the 2,000ft shelf of a nearby class C). I would be doing pattern work, turning base and some yahoo would do a straight-in without a single call on the radio. If I hadn't seen him it and turned early it might have ended badly.
- tw04 11y ago
  So... just a thought as a non-pilot. It's 2015 - we have collision camera's on cars. Given you need to be looking literally every direction to see if something is going to hit you, why aren't planes equipped with similar technology. I feel like at cruising altitude, there aren't really enough false-positives out there that the system would be unusable. Not necessarily expecting you personally to know. But I feel like the incremental cost to the price of a plane should make this a no-brainer. Did I just come up with a ycombinator 2016 idea?
  - Maxious 11y ago
    It doesn't even have to be cameras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy... >It monitors the airspace around an aircraft for other aircraft equipped with a corresponding active transponder, independent of air traffic control, and warns pilots of the presence of other transponder-equipped aircraft which may present a threat of mid-air collision (MAC). > The next step beyond identifying potential collisions is automatically negotiating a mutual avoidance manoeuver between the two (or more) conflicting aircraft. This works along side the ADS-B broadcasts for generally knowing where other planes are without ground based radar - however that's not going to be fully implemented until 2020 in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_%E2%80%93_broadcast#US_implementation_timetable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillan...
snom320 11y ago
In VMC, yes. If you're in IMC in certain air spaces, it is the ATCs responsibility to maintain separation, not yours (because you might not have the information needed to avoid a collision, but the ATC will). If course, you're still responsible for following instructions, but you can't necessarily blame an IMC mid-air on the pilots.

by pm24601 11y ago

tacticus 11y ago

Very first time i went up as an air cadet we all received this lecture. And it is entirely the case.

ngoede 11y ago

It seems terribly unfair that in this situation the person behaving recklessly had the best tools for surviving after the crash happened. Just how things go I guess.

Retric 11y ago
This is actually part of why the United States Air Force skips over a lot of 'important' general aviation training. The Air Force goal is to quickly train people for very specific and demanding roles and the tools to be say a great glider pilot are considered relatively unimportant. Unfortunately, AF pilots often confuse the ability to excel in specific very demanding roles as far more general aviation experience.
- thrill 11y ago
  And on what do you base that statement?
- TuxerLulz 11y ago
  This is actually fairly untrue, as the AF is one of the only curriculum that enforces glider training. An ATP (air transport pilot) needs 1500h at least, but none of them in a glider :)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- neurotech1 11y ago
  This is incorrect. The USAF put great emphasis on airmanship, to a level beyond what it expected for a GA pilot in a Cessna. Also, the USAF Academy is famous for their gliding program. One of the glider pilots who trained at USAFA subsequently flew as US Airlines 1549 and glided into the Hudson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger#Military_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger#Military_...
  - Retric 11y ago
    There are two main tracks in the AF, bomber/cargo/tankers get have a much larger emphasis on gliding as fighter’s really can't glide for crap. "Approximately 50 percent of cadets are enrolled in a soaring course during their third-class year." http://www.academyadmissions.com/the-experience/military/airmanship/ http://www.academyadmissions.com/the-experience/military/air... The AF does promote people learning more general skills in their free time, but fighter jets are very special aircraft and that tracks focus is defiantly on becoming a better fighter pilot not just a well rounded pilot.

peckrob 11y ago

Same here. My instructor was very clear that I, as the PIC, was responsible for maintaining clearance from other airplanes at all times regardless of what ATC says. Even if I am operating in controlled airspace, ultimately, the authority over what happens to me and my airplane is my responsibility alone. While traffic callouts are nice to have and I really appreciate ATC giving me heads up when I'm flying, I still spend the majority of my flying time looking out the windows for other airplanes. Especially before making any turn or other maneuver where I might have limited view, always dip the wings to check the area first. Unfortunately, I know some pilots who fly as if they've never seen a radio. Used to do a lot of flying out of a semi-uncontrolled field (it's untowered, but right under the 2,000ft shelf of a nearby class C). I would be doing pattern work, turning base and some yahoo would do a straight-in without a single call on the radio. If I hadn't seen him it and turned early it might have ended badly.

tw04 11y ago
So... just a thought as a non-pilot. It's 2015 - we have collision camera's on cars. Given you need to be looking literally every direction to see if something is going to hit you, why aren't planes equipped with similar technology. I feel like at cruising altitude, there aren't really enough false-positives out there that the system would be unusable. Not necessarily expecting you personally to know. But I feel like the incremental cost to the price of a plane should make this a no-brainer. Did I just come up with a ycombinator 2016 idea?
- Maxious 11y ago
  It doesn't even have to be cameras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy... >It monitors the airspace around an aircraft for other aircraft equipped with a corresponding active transponder, independent of air traffic control, and warns pilots of the presence of other transponder-equipped aircraft which may present a threat of mid-air collision (MAC). > The next step beyond identifying potential collisions is automatically negotiating a mutual avoidance manoeuver between the two (or more) conflicting aircraft. This works along side the ADS-B broadcasts for generally knowing where other planes are without ground based radar - however that's not going to be fully implemented until 2020 in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_%E2%80%93_broadcast#US_implementation_timetable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillan...

snom320 11y ago

In VMC, yes. If you're in IMC in certain air spaces, it is the ATCs responsibility to maintain separation, not yours (because you might not have the information needed to avoid a collision, but the ATC will). If course, you're still responsible for following instructions, but you can't necessarily blame an IMC mid-air on the pilots.