13 ms·

Tesla’s Model S Gets “Ludicrous” Mode, Will Do 0-60 in 2.8 Seconds

266 points by arturogarrido 11y ago

leeoniya 11y ago
so it's a fuse that costs $5k or $10k. is it made from 5oz-10oz of solid platinum? what am i missing here [1]? [1] http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=300a+fuse&rh=n%3A15684181%2Ck%3A300a+fuse http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D...
- nacs 11y ago
  I'm sure there are other hardware upgrades involved to achieve that than just a single fuse.
  - neurotech1 11y ago
    They probably also factor in that cars driven with "Ludicrous" acceleration may have statistical higher warranty claims.
- murbard2 11y ago
  Supply and demand... For every 1000 Tesla owner willing to pay $5, more than one of them is willing to pay $5k.
- AndrewKemendo 11y ago
  They determined that people will pay 5-10k for the additional speed. Nothing more than that probably.
  - Khao 11y ago
    These people are funding more R&D from Tesla so they can develop their next gen affordable electric car.
- outworlder 11y ago
  What you are missing is that it's a 1500A fuse. Source: http://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-s-just-got-upgraded-to-ludicrous-speed-1718577723 http://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-s-just-got-upgraded-to-l... > While working on our goal of making the power train last a million miles, we came up with the idea for an advanced smart fuse for the battery. Instead of a standard fuse that just melts past a certain amperage, which means you aren’t exactly sure when it will or won’t melt or if it will arc when it does, we developed a fuse with its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery. It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty. That was combined with upgrading the main pack contractor to use inconel (a high temperature space-grade superalloy) instead of steel, so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. The net result is that we can safely increase max amp throughout from 1300 to 1500 Amps. If you don’t know much about Amps, trust me this is a silly big number of Amps to be going through something the size of your little fingernail. What this results in is a 10% improvement in the 0 to 60 mph time to 2.8 secs and a quarter mile time of 10.9 secs. Time to 155 mph is improved even more, resulting in a 20% reduction.
  - HCIdivision17 11y ago
    Oh jeez. Never mind my sibling comment - this sucker seems hellaciously sophisticated, far more so than I was imagining. An active fuse that carries 1.5kA that's the size of a finger? I've seen fuses wider than my wrist blam for less.
  - pbreit 11y ago
    What a fantastic read! I wonder if they get any tech or materials from SpaceX?
    - johncolanduoni 11y ago
      Hopefully once they iron out the kinks in space travel they can release it to the Tesla with a software upgrade, or maybe an even better fuse!
    - outworlder 11y ago
- HCIdivision17 11y ago
  Without the performance characteristics for the fuse, I wouldn't imagine it would be cheap. Specialized electronic components are usually very expensive, especially if they're never mass produced and engineered to a specific task (component ICs for devices in space face the same issue). That engineering is pretty damn expensive, the tooling to make the small run of components is expensive, and quality control is expensive. Make a few hundred million and those costs vanish compared to the input materials, compared to a few thousand components where the overhead dominates.
- roel_v 11y ago
  Market segmentation. How do you get people to pay you another 10k? With a widget that is useless but has huge bragging value. People who don't care about 10k will spend it on this, and those who do care will have no different lives.
- neurotech1 11y ago
  Not sure about the P85D specifically but the regular 85 KWh battery pack fuse[0] is $272 (min order 3) from Digi-Key [1] [0] http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/37023-P85D-Power-draw-numbers-do-not-add-up http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/37023-P85D-Pow... [1] http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/170M4416/170M4416-ND/1875780 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/170M4416/170M4416-N...
- elchief 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-based_pricing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-based_pricing
liamk 11y ago
Amazing, that's as fast as the Lamborghini Aventador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Aventador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Aventador
- dxhdr 11y ago
  It's as fast as the Nissan GT-R, which coincidentally costs around the same price as the Tesla. https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan%20gt-r https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan%20gt-r
  - DanBlake 11y ago
    The GTR is 2.9 seconds, so the tesla is faster- Its also faster in the 1/4 mile as well, so this is kind of a big deal. I believe this is the fastest production car under 300k that you can buy.
    - dxhdr 11y ago
      They're very similar, 2.8 vs 2.9 is not that big of a deal. The GT-R NISMO is perhaps even faster but again, fairly similar. Regardless these are expensive cars (>$100k) with impressive performance no doubt. It's worth pointing out that the Tesla P85D is not the only 100k car with that performance available.
      - DanBlake 11y ago
        What are the other cars in the price range that can do these 0-60 and 1/4 miles times? Genuinely curious- I didnt think there were many even within .5 seconds of it (most start at 3.5 0-60's)
        kross 11y ago
        Mercedes-AMG E63S 4matic with 590hp ~$105k does it in 3.5s, and that is very fast. The Tesla is indeed ludicrous.
        11y ago
mizchief2 11y ago
Ludicrous mode; Move bitch, get out the way...
stefanobernardi 11y ago
Even if not a software update, I still find Tesla's way of thinking of a car as an actual (continuously update/upgrade-able) product fascinating. Very rare for hardware. It gives an amazing user experience, "Hey restart your car and it's now got X and Y". Respect. Edit: clarifying the term "product".
- skrebbel 11y ago
  What? I think I know what you mean, but how the hell are BMW not thinking of their cars as "actual products"?
  - mmastrac 11y ago
    I think he means "product" as in the "dynamic product" we have today with TVs/laptops/iOS/Android etc.
  - tricolon 11y ago
    What your parent might be talking about is the distinction between a product that is continually supported by the creator (such as a hardware device with software that can be updated) and an artefact that is produced and then effectively forgotten about by the creator (though there might exist a first- or third-party market for repair and maintenance). I have a feeling that many auto manufacturers still think more in terms of artefacts than in terms of products (like many corporations used to treat software).
    - skrebbel 11y ago
      My point is that the vast, vast, vast amount of products out there don't have auto-update. This includes my morning cereal, my fancy designer dustbin, my bicycle, my microwave, and my 2-year old son's favourite teddybeardogthing. To only call something a product when it has auto-update is such ridiculous HN navel gazing that it's just funny. EDIT: removed useless rant for fear of losing even more internet points!
      - 11y ago
jkot 11y ago
Where is source code?
rdl 11y ago
If you can do this as a $10k update "safely" with a computer-controlled pyro fuse, I wonder what you could do by hacking the firmware and replacing it with a piece of busbar. 2 seconds?
- rdl 11y ago
  I also wonder if there will be a way to "update firmware" on the fuse, so as to disable it, allowing remote self destruct mode. The advantage of a dumb fuse is it's basically going to work unless the laws of physics change, even though it's not as precise.
- Cshelton 11y ago
  I feel like the limit of what these motors can do now is being held back by something they can't control anymore, tire grip. I think a lot of these software updates on the acceleration speed aren't because they all of the sudden figured out how to get more power from the electric motor. I think it's from tweaking the "no-slip" system or whatever they call theirs. Basically when the car detects it's losing grip, it cuts back the power. I think this is a balancing act on how to get the system to push the limits of slipping without putting the average user into a ditch because they tried out the "ludicrous" mode. I'm sure on static conditions in a lab, Tesla can make the thing do something like 2s. It would require something other than a regular tire on a regular road though.
  - NovaS1X 11y ago
    Tire grip is a huge one. I'm sure the improvements are as you said it's been a theory of mine too. Suspension also has an effect however obviously wouldn't be affected by this update. I think they do these test with the stock tires. It would be nice to see what the Model S could do with a set of R compounds or Hoosiers in a straight line.
    - callalex 11y ago
      It is actually possible that the suspension was affected by the update. It wouldn't be the first time that the suspension's behavior has been tweaked by a software update to the Model S.
mhurron 11y ago
Does it cause it to go to plaid?
- andyeskridge 11y ago
  Aparently the new Roadster will. [1] [1] http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/17/surprise-tesla-is-working-on-a-new-roadster/?ncid=rss http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/17/surprise-tesla-is-working-o...
  - rdl 11y ago
    I assume that means awd for the new roadster; Otherwise I don't see how they could do tires.
    - scott_karana 11y ago
      Don't forget that strength-to-weight is a big determinant of acceleration, so the new Roadster wouldn't necessarily need to be AWD. (and here's hoping it's not!) There are plenty of Benzes, BMWs, and domestic sports/sporty cars with massive acceleration "despite" being RWD. (See all the Viper vs Model S videos, for example) A Model S drivetrain in something that isn't 2200kg long-wheelbase sedan would be amazing :)
myth_buster 11y ago
Tesla's seems to be beating a dead horse! Don't get me wrong; I love what Tesla does but making a faster production car seems to be an answer to the critics who I think have already taken home the message that the electric car is as fast as the best IC car! I think what they should address is getting out the affordable Model 3 as fast to the market as they can. They may loose the game if the incumbents beat them to it. They would need volume to sustain their production and maintenance costs. Once every manufacturer gets onto the electric wagon, a lack of wider adoption, could become their Achilles heels.
- outworlder 11y ago
  Should that happen, my guess is that they would be quite happy to sell their batteries to everyone else.
  - joshuapants 11y ago
    And I bet everyone else would be quite happy to buy them rather than setting up their own factories.
  - UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
    Didn't Tesla already give away their battery intellectual property or similar? If they did why wouldn't these other companies not just produce it themselves to cut Tesla out?
    - outworlder 11y ago
      Their patents, yes. That's just the beginning. Now all that one needs to do is to poach their battery engineers. And build their own factories. And iron out the kinks. It's not like a competitor will be able to get their tech and beat them at their own game overnight - while delivering a cheaper product!
- cromwellian 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure they're working as hard as possible on that, but the key to reducing the costs is the battery packs and that won't happen until gigafactory comes online. Other manufacturers will face the same cost issues but won't own their own gigafactory
devy 11y ago
It's a $10k upgrade, not cheap! I wonder which Ludacris song[1] was the hold music looping before today's Tesla press conference call... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-speed-model-s http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-sp...
- devy 11y ago
  Ok, I found it myself. It's "Beast Mode"! [1] [1] http://www.wired.com/2015/07/guess-elons-ludacris-fan/ http://www.wired.com/2015/07/guess-elons-ludacris-fan/
csense 11y ago
I like the Spaceballs reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0
- chisleu 11y ago
  Incoming, "this isn't reddit" trolling. :) I recently got to see this in the theater with my 6 year old. We have watched it at home dozens of times and he knows most of the big one liners. It was excellent. I love that the tesla team is willing to have so much fun with their upgrades. I can't wait until I can afford one.
mrfusion 11y ago
How can they get that many amps out of the battery? It seems like you'd need a capactior to have that kind of power?
- outworlder 11y ago
  Well, the battery is not a single monolithic design, it is composed of thousands of small (think AA) cells. My uneducated hunch is that that design helps them extract power from many cells in parallel. It's also huge, taking almost all the floor of the car. Not sure how they cool that beast though.
  - bronz 11y ago
    The batteries are actively liquid cooled.
- aselzer 11y ago
  There are lithium polymer batteries with a peak discharge rate (usually a few seconds) of 100+ times their capacity (C rating). So if you put a lot of those single cells in parallel to e.g. form an 80Ah battery, you could for some time pull 8000A+ out of it at 3.7V (the car's motors probably need a few times that voltage, so there will be cells in series).
  - Dylan16807 11y ago
    I think you're an order of magnitude low; the battery is arranged to give 100x that voltage and still put out over a thousand amps. But we're looking at batteries with 23k amp hours across all the individual cells.
- tlrobinson 11y ago
  Put enough AA batteries in parallel and you could get that much current out of it.
ck2 11y ago
No-one needs this, I predict accidents. I hope insurance companies can determine which models have this and inexperienced drivers should pay more. Just hope no-one kills anyone.
- epmatsw 11y ago
  Well that's a pretty silly way to look at this. No one needs a car that can go faster than 85mph, but pretty much every car on the market can break that limit. What makes this different?
  - ck2 11y ago
    It takes a lot more effort to go more than 85mph (and the engine has to work differently depending on the environment). Someone stepping on the pedal and being where a pedestrian is in 2 seconds could be very fatal for inexperienced drivers.
    - steffan 11y ago
      > Someone stepping on the pedal and being where a pedestrian is in 2 seconds could be very fatal for inexperienced drivers. Probably far more likely to be fatal for the pedestrian
  - zzzeek 11y ago
    my dad has a Tesla, I've driven it, and I think it is entirely different. The acceleration you see in a Tesla happens at times like, when you're trying to make a left turn in front of some other cars really fast; you're going from zero to about 30 miles in hour in less than a second, silently. If you happen to not have seen a pedestrian in the crosswalk as you do this, that pedestrian is dead; they will not hear you, and you will be through them before you even know it. The acceleration of the Tesla presents a challenge to normal human reaction times on a routine basis. It encourages the driver to use the greater acceleration advantage to do things that would not be possible in more traditional cars, like zooming from a dead stop to a very high speed to get through turns or rapidly changing traffic blockages. All with zero engine noise emitted to the world around you. I love the tesla but the acceleration / noise thing is definitely going to cause more accidents until some mitigation is applied (which I hope to be that the cars just drive themselves).
Animats 11y ago
More usefully, there's an option to increase the range to 300 miles. That's still only half the range of many stock gasoline cars, though.
- MattBearman 11y ago
  That's further than I get from my petrol Mazda Rx8
- mikeash 11y ago
  You only need enough range to go as far as the next charger, or until your bladder is full, whichever is last. 300 miles is plenty (overkill, really) for long distance travel. Gas car range is more about how many times per month you need to stop at the gas station in normal use. More range makes that more convenient. With home charging, the convenience of an electric car is better even with less range.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    > 300 miles is plenty (overkill, really) for long distance travel. Don't read trip with me, then. I drove from Hartford, CT to Dallas, TX last month in two days (900mi the first day, 750 the second). Trips like this are specifically why I nixed the Model S as an option and went with a turbodiesel Passat (with its 750+ highway mile range). I realize I'm in the minority, but it is a notable minority. I don't want to be forced into an hour-long stop every 300 miles.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      900 miles in a day is stretching it, but not entirely out of the question. You can sustain a long distance average speed of about 55-60MPH (counting time for stops) in a Model S 85. It will be slower than you could do in a gas car if you push it. If you don't push it, it won't be any slower, and could even be faster. (Refueling a gas car takes a lot less time, but can't really be done concurrently with other things. If you were going to get coffee or whatever at each charging stop regardless, then you're looking at 5 minutes for gas versus zero for electricity. Accomplishing this with perfection is, of course, a bit of a challenge.) Note that an hour every 300 miles isn't generally how you'd do it. Charging is faster the closer your battery is to empty, so your best bet is to work in the bottom ~50% of your charge range when possible, and spend ~20 minutes charging at intervals of ~150 miles. You'll note that this is about how far apart Tesla's superchargers are spaced. That, to me, is about the right interval for a quick coffee, bathroom, or stretch break. Your mileage may, of course, vary. The biggest problem with your particular trip isn't the time for charging, but the general lack of charging infrastructure along the shortest route. If you route through superchargers, the distance is about 300 miles longer due to the need to take I-70 into Kansas to follow the chargers. This should improve with time, and current owners will benefit, but until it does there are some trips that are just not as good with superchargers. But improvements there pay off a lot better than improvements in range beyond 300 miles.
rjusher 11y ago
One thing I don't understand is the position of the big car makers(BMW, MB, AUDI) being a passive observer in this field. Tesla is getting so much, that if any automaker that can deliver a car with half the specs of a model S, and keeping their model's prices as a mass produced car, would deliver a big punch to Tesla, and would greatly move the market forward. Is it the investment necessary for building a network of charging stations? I highly doubt it is because Tesla has more money for R&D than any other car maker. Is getting a Model S, earns you the title of being an early adopter. Because I believe the market already shifted towards this type of vehicles, but I may be polarized, because I already desire an electric car.
- bravo22 11y ago
  The batteries in a Tesla aren't very green and sadly they are quite large. Big automakers think in volumes of millions of cars, Tesla delivers about 25K (EDIT: looks like 40K projected for this year[1]) cars a year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tesla-earnings-review-small-margin-production-improvements-in-q1-too-small-for-2015-targets/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tes...
  - chambo622 11y ago
    Try ~55k this year
    - bravo22 11y ago
      Maybe that is sold? Per this [1] article from May their delivery per quarter is about 10K units, so about 40K/yr. I'll update my reply. http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tesla-earnings-review-small-margin-production-improvements-in-q1-too-small-for-2015-targets/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tes...
      - eatmyshorts 11y ago
        According to Tesla's own statements, they are planning to deliver 55k this year, and their Q2 deliveries of 11,507 puts them on track (by their own estimates). I would assume some of those deliveries will be for the Model X, which is supposed to start shipping in Q3. Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sets-a-new-record-for-car-deliveries-in-second-quarter-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sets-a-new-record-for-c...
curiousjorge 11y ago
this alone will be a good enough excuse to get this car if you could afford it. Asides Nissan GTR, supercars running in 300,000 USD will do roughly 3.0~3.1. hypercars like pagani, p1, porsche, laferrari achieve sub 3.0 I'm extremely impressed. Even more because this was just another regular software update.
- dandrews 11y ago
  Not only s/w this time.
- myth_buster 11y ago
  It's not a software upgrade One catch: unlike most Tesla Model S tuning enhancements, this one isn’t a software update — and it’s not free. Why? Because Tesla had to make new, physical hardware to make this possible. Specifically, they had to make a fuse that didn’t melt when you pulled ridiculously high amperages over it. The fuse upgrade will be a $10k option for new buyers, and cost $5k (before installation) for existing P85D owners.
vvanders 11y ago
More impressive to me is the fact that the 90kWh battery is already trickling down to the Model S. It was originally developed for the Model X. I think it's safe to say that we'll see Model X features moving down to the Model S much faster than previously thought. This is how you relentlessly improve a product instead of holding specific features to a Model without solid technical reasons.
- beambot 11y ago
  I've been reading Henry Ford's autobiography ("My Life and Work"), and it seems like Musk is taking a page directly from Ford's playbook with continuous product (and component) updates that are (mostly) backwards compatible with previously-produced vehicles in the same model. The parallels are pretty amazing, and they go much much deeper too (eg. fabrication automation, experimentation, engineering to the highest extent possible, etc).
  - rebolek 11y ago
    I hope they don't go too much deep... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew
deleted 11y ago
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burger_moon 11y ago
0-60 times are nice but I want to know what the 60-100 time is. That's what generally used for 1/4 mile estimates. Is there any diagrams of information easily available about the couple style used between the motors and the wheel hubs? I wonder how they're done and what the limit of them is with the amount of torque they put out. In a previous life I used to build a lot of race cars and shearing axle bolts wasn't uncommon in drag applications. It would be awesome to see them test out a full on drag tesla.
- ylhert 11y ago
  I'd imagine pretty good. It's got such a low drag coefficient, and at those speeds liquifying the tires is not as much of a problem. I'd think that the 60-100 times might be more impressive than it's 0-60 when compared to conventional cars!
  - eatmyshorts 11y ago
    Looks like an 2012 model that is not the P85 and did not have the OTA performance update from last year could do it in about 9 seconds. For a reference, that's faster than a BMW M5. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03g4UHtCWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03g4UHtCWo
- aidenn0 11y ago
  This article[1] was posted to Reddit, and included a 1/4 mile time of 10.9s and peak acceleration of 1.1g 1: http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-speed-model-s http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-sp...
Jun8 11y ago
On a different note: is it possible to opt out of Tesla software updates (for whatever reason)? AFAIK, this is not possible (http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/same-distasteful-appeasing http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/same-distasteful-appe...) The two options when an update is available seem to be install now or later.
braum 11y ago
and still no Model X or even serious updates about it... and yet I will still let them keep my $5k until it arrives...
fowlslegs 11y ago
Seems like they took inspiration from the branding on the Chromebook Pixel LS (Ludicrous Speed)--the 16GB RAM, i7 one that I'm lucky enough to have ;-) Fun fact: most cars today run about 20 separate operating systems. My guess is Tesla is fairly above average. Anyone have a figure on this?
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Seems like they took inspiration from the branding on the Chromebook Pixel LS (Ludicrous Speed) More likely, both Google and Tesla took inspiration from the movie Spaceballs.
aswanson 11y ago
I wonder if it will have a "Drake" mode to do 0-100 real quick.

266 points by arturogarrido 11y ago

so it's a fuse that costs $5k or $10k. is it made from 5oz-10oz of solid platinum? what am i missing here [1]? [1] http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=300a+fuse&rh=n%3A15684181%2Ck%3A300a+fuse http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D...

nacs 11y ago
I'm sure there are other hardware upgrades involved to achieve that than just a single fuse.
- neurotech1 11y ago
  They probably also factor in that cars driven with "Ludicrous" acceleration may have statistical higher warranty claims.
murbard2 11y ago
Supply and demand... For every 1000 Tesla owner willing to pay $5, more than one of them is willing to pay $5k.
AndrewKemendo 11y ago
They determined that people will pay 5-10k for the additional speed. Nothing more than that probably.
- Khao 11y ago
  These people are funding more R&D from Tesla so they can develop their next gen affordable electric car.
outworlder 11y ago
What you are missing is that it's a 1500A fuse. Source: http://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-s-just-got-upgraded-to-ludicrous-speed-1718577723 http://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-s-just-got-upgraded-to-l... > While working on our goal of making the power train last a million miles, we came up with the idea for an advanced smart fuse for the battery. Instead of a standard fuse that just melts past a certain amperage, which means you aren’t exactly sure when it will or won’t melt or if it will arc when it does, we developed a fuse with its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery. It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty. That was combined with upgrading the main pack contractor to use inconel (a high temperature space-grade superalloy) instead of steel, so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. The net result is that we can safely increase max amp throughout from 1300 to 1500 Amps. If you don’t know much about Amps, trust me this is a silly big number of Amps to be going through something the size of your little fingernail. What this results in is a 10% improvement in the 0 to 60 mph time to 2.8 secs and a quarter mile time of 10.9 secs. Time to 155 mph is improved even more, resulting in a 20% reduction.
- HCIdivision17 11y ago
  Oh jeez. Never mind my sibling comment - this sucker seems hellaciously sophisticated, far more so than I was imagining. An active fuse that carries 1.5kA that's the size of a finger? I've seen fuses wider than my wrist blam for less.
- pbreit 11y ago
  What a fantastic read! I wonder if they get any tech or materials from SpaceX?
  - johncolanduoni 11y ago
    Hopefully once they iron out the kinks in space travel they can release it to the Tesla with a software upgrade, or maybe an even better fuse!
  - outworlder 11y ago
HCIdivision17 11y ago
Without the performance characteristics for the fuse, I wouldn't imagine it would be cheap. Specialized electronic components are usually very expensive, especially if they're never mass produced and engineered to a specific task (component ICs for devices in space face the same issue). That engineering is pretty damn expensive, the tooling to make the small run of components is expensive, and quality control is expensive. Make a few hundred million and those costs vanish compared to the input materials, compared to a few thousand components where the overhead dominates.
roel_v 11y ago
Market segmentation. How do you get people to pay you another 10k? With a widget that is useless but has huge bragging value. People who don't care about 10k will spend it on this, and those who do care will have no different lives.
neurotech1 11y ago
Not sure about the P85D specifically but the regular 85 KWh battery pack fuse[0] is $272 (min order 3) from Digi-Key [1] [0] http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/37023-P85D-Power-draw-numbers-do-not-add-up http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/37023-P85D-Pow... [1] http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/170M4416/170M4416-ND/1875780 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/170M4416/170M4416-N...
elchief 11y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-based_pricing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-based_pricing

liamk 11y ago

Amazing, that's as fast as the Lamborghini Aventador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Aventador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Aventador

dxhdr 11y ago
It's as fast as the Nissan GT-R, which coincidentally costs around the same price as the Tesla. https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan%20gt-r https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan%20gt-r
- DanBlake 11y ago
  The GTR is 2.9 seconds, so the tesla is faster- Its also faster in the 1/4 mile as well, so this is kind of a big deal. I believe this is the fastest production car under 300k that you can buy.
  - dxhdr 11y ago
    They're very similar, 2.8 vs 2.9 is not that big of a deal. The GT-R NISMO is perhaps even faster but again, fairly similar. Regardless these are expensive cars (>$100k) with impressive performance no doubt. It's worth pointing out that the Tesla P85D is not the only 100k car with that performance available.
    - DanBlake 11y ago
      What are the other cars in the price range that can do these 0-60 and 1/4 miles times? Genuinely curious- I didnt think there were many even within .5 seconds of it (most start at 3.5 0-60's)
      - kross 11y ago
        Mercedes-AMG E63S 4matic with 590hp ~$105k does it in 3.5s, and that is very fast. The Tesla is indeed ludicrous.
      - 11y ago

mizchief2 11y ago

Ludicrous mode; Move bitch, get out the way...

stefanobernardi 11y ago

Even if not a software update, I still find Tesla's way of thinking of a car as an actual (continuously update/upgrade-able) product fascinating. Very rare for hardware. It gives an amazing user experience, "Hey restart your car and it's now got X and Y". Respect. Edit: clarifying the term "product".

skrebbel 11y ago
What? I think I know what you mean, but how the hell are BMW not thinking of their cars as "actual products"?
- mmastrac 11y ago
  I think he means "product" as in the "dynamic product" we have today with TVs/laptops/iOS/Android etc.
- tricolon 11y ago
  What your parent might be talking about is the distinction between a product that is continually supported by the creator (such as a hardware device with software that can be updated) and an artefact that is produced and then effectively forgotten about by the creator (though there might exist a first- or third-party market for repair and maintenance). I have a feeling that many auto manufacturers still think more in terms of artefacts than in terms of products (like many corporations used to treat software).
  - skrebbel 11y ago
    My point is that the vast, vast, vast amount of products out there don't have auto-update. This includes my morning cereal, my fancy designer dustbin, my bicycle, my microwave, and my 2-year old son's favourite teddybeardogthing. To only call something a product when it has auto-update is such ridiculous HN navel gazing that it's just funny. EDIT: removed useless rant for fear of losing even more internet points!
    - 11y ago

jkot 11y ago

Where is source code?

rdl 11y ago

If you can do this as a $10k update "safely" with a computer-controlled pyro fuse, I wonder what you could do by hacking the firmware and replacing it with a piece of busbar. 2 seconds?

rdl 11y ago
I also wonder if there will be a way to "update firmware" on the fuse, so as to disable it, allowing remote self destruct mode. The advantage of a dumb fuse is it's basically going to work unless the laws of physics change, even though it's not as precise.
Cshelton 11y ago
I feel like the limit of what these motors can do now is being held back by something they can't control anymore, tire grip. I think a lot of these software updates on the acceleration speed aren't because they all of the sudden figured out how to get more power from the electric motor. I think it's from tweaking the "no-slip" system or whatever they call theirs. Basically when the car detects it's losing grip, it cuts back the power. I think this is a balancing act on how to get the system to push the limits of slipping without putting the average user into a ditch because they tried out the "ludicrous" mode. I'm sure on static conditions in a lab, Tesla can make the thing do something like 2s. It would require something other than a regular tire on a regular road though.
- NovaS1X 11y ago
  Tire grip is a huge one. I'm sure the improvements are as you said it's been a theory of mine too. Suspension also has an effect however obviously wouldn't be affected by this update. I think they do these test with the stock tires. It would be nice to see what the Model S could do with a set of R compounds or Hoosiers in a straight line.
  - callalex 11y ago
    It is actually possible that the suspension was affected by the update. It wouldn't be the first time that the suspension's behavior has been tweaked by a software update to the Model S.

mhurron 11y ago

Does it cause it to go to plaid?

andyeskridge 11y ago
Aparently the new Roadster will. [1] [1] http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/17/surprise-tesla-is-working-on-a-new-roadster/?ncid=rss http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/17/surprise-tesla-is-working-o...
- rdl 11y ago
  I assume that means awd for the new roadster; Otherwise I don't see how they could do tires.
  - scott_karana 11y ago
    Don't forget that strength-to-weight is a big determinant of acceleration, so the new Roadster wouldn't necessarily need to be AWD. (and here's hoping it's not!) There are plenty of Benzes, BMWs, and domestic sports/sporty cars with massive acceleration "despite" being RWD. (See all the Viper vs Model S videos, for example) A Model S drivetrain in something that isn't 2200kg long-wheelbase sedan would be amazing :)

myth_buster 11y ago

Tesla's seems to be beating a dead horse! Don't get me wrong; I love what Tesla does but making a faster production car seems to be an answer to the critics who I think have already taken home the message that the electric car is as fast as the best IC car! I think what they should address is getting out the affordable Model 3 as fast to the market as they can. They may loose the game if the incumbents beat them to it. They would need volume to sustain their production and maintenance costs. Once every manufacturer gets onto the electric wagon, a lack of wider adoption, could become their Achilles heels.

outworlder 11y ago
Should that happen, my guess is that they would be quite happy to sell their batteries to everyone else.
- joshuapants 11y ago
  And I bet everyone else would be quite happy to buy them rather than setting up their own factories.
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  Didn't Tesla already give away their battery intellectual property or similar? If they did why wouldn't these other companies not just produce it themselves to cut Tesla out?
  - outworlder 11y ago
    Their patents, yes. That's just the beginning. Now all that one needs to do is to poach their battery engineers. And build their own factories. And iron out the kinks. It's not like a competitor will be able to get their tech and beat them at their own game overnight - while delivering a cheaper product!
cromwellian 11y ago
I'm pretty sure they're working as hard as possible on that, but the key to reducing the costs is the battery packs and that won't happen until gigafactory comes online. Other manufacturers will face the same cost issues but won't own their own gigafactory

devy 11y ago

It's a $10k upgrade, not cheap! I wonder which Ludacris song[1] was the hold music looping before today's Tesla press conference call... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-speed-model-s http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-sp...

devy 11y ago
Ok, I found it myself. It's "Beast Mode"! [1] [1] http://www.wired.com/2015/07/guess-elons-ludacris-fan/ http://www.wired.com/2015/07/guess-elons-ludacris-fan/

csense 11y ago

I like the Spaceballs reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0

chisleu 11y ago
Incoming, "this isn't reddit" trolling. :) I recently got to see this in the theater with my 6 year old. We have watched it at home dozens of times and he knows most of the big one liners. It was excellent. I love that the tesla team is willing to have so much fun with their upgrades. I can't wait until I can afford one.

mrfusion 11y ago

How can they get that many amps out of the battery? It seems like you'd need a capactior to have that kind of power?

outworlder 11y ago
Well, the battery is not a single monolithic design, it is composed of thousands of small (think AA) cells. My uneducated hunch is that that design helps them extract power from many cells in parallel. It's also huge, taking almost all the floor of the car. Not sure how they cool that beast though.
- bronz 11y ago
  The batteries are actively liquid cooled.
aselzer 11y ago
There are lithium polymer batteries with a peak discharge rate (usually a few seconds) of 100+ times their capacity (C rating). So if you put a lot of those single cells in parallel to e.g. form an 80Ah battery, you could for some time pull 8000A+ out of it at 3.7V (the car's motors probably need a few times that voltage, so there will be cells in series).
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  I think you're an order of magnitude low; the battery is arranged to give 100x that voltage and still put out over a thousand amps. But we're looking at batteries with 23k amp hours across all the individual cells.
tlrobinson 11y ago
Put enough AA batteries in parallel and you could get that much current out of it.

ck2 11y ago

No-one needs this, I predict accidents. I hope insurance companies can determine which models have this and inexperienced drivers should pay more. Just hope no-one kills anyone.

epmatsw 11y ago
Well that's a pretty silly way to look at this. No one needs a car that can go faster than 85mph, but pretty much every car on the market can break that limit. What makes this different?
- ck2 11y ago
  It takes a lot more effort to go more than 85mph (and the engine has to work differently depending on the environment). Someone stepping on the pedal and being where a pedestrian is in 2 seconds could be very fatal for inexperienced drivers.
  - steffan 11y ago
    > Someone stepping on the pedal and being where a pedestrian is in 2 seconds could be very fatal for inexperienced drivers. Probably far more likely to be fatal for the pedestrian
- zzzeek 11y ago
  my dad has a Tesla, I've driven it, and I think it is entirely different. The acceleration you see in a Tesla happens at times like, when you're trying to make a left turn in front of some other cars really fast; you're going from zero to about 30 miles in hour in less than a second, silently. If you happen to not have seen a pedestrian in the crosswalk as you do this, that pedestrian is dead; they will not hear you, and you will be through them before you even know it. The acceleration of the Tesla presents a challenge to normal human reaction times on a routine basis. It encourages the driver to use the greater acceleration advantage to do things that would not be possible in more traditional cars, like zooming from a dead stop to a very high speed to get through turns or rapidly changing traffic blockages. All with zero engine noise emitted to the world around you. I love the tesla but the acceleration / noise thing is definitely going to cause more accidents until some mitigation is applied (which I hope to be that the cars just drive themselves).

Animats 11y ago

More usefully, there's an option to increase the range to 300 miles. That's still only half the range of many stock gasoline cars, though.

MattBearman 11y ago
That's further than I get from my petrol Mazda Rx8
mikeash 11y ago
You only need enough range to go as far as the next charger, or until your bladder is full, whichever is last. 300 miles is plenty (overkill, really) for long distance travel. Gas car range is more about how many times per month you need to stop at the gas station in normal use. More range makes that more convenient. With home charging, the convenience of an electric car is better even with less range.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  > 300 miles is plenty (overkill, really) for long distance travel. Don't read trip with me, then. I drove from Hartford, CT to Dallas, TX last month in two days (900mi the first day, 750 the second). Trips like this are specifically why I nixed the Model S as an option and went with a turbodiesel Passat (with its 750+ highway mile range). I realize I'm in the minority, but it is a notable minority. I don't want to be forced into an hour-long stop every 300 miles.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    900 miles in a day is stretching it, but not entirely out of the question. You can sustain a long distance average speed of about 55-60MPH (counting time for stops) in a Model S 85. It will be slower than you could do in a gas car if you push it. If you don't push it, it won't be any slower, and could even be faster. (Refueling a gas car takes a lot less time, but can't really be done concurrently with other things. If you were going to get coffee or whatever at each charging stop regardless, then you're looking at 5 minutes for gas versus zero for electricity. Accomplishing this with perfection is, of course, a bit of a challenge.) Note that an hour every 300 miles isn't generally how you'd do it. Charging is faster the closer your battery is to empty, so your best bet is to work in the bottom ~50% of your charge range when possible, and spend ~20 minutes charging at intervals of ~150 miles. You'll note that this is about how far apart Tesla's superchargers are spaced. That, to me, is about the right interval for a quick coffee, bathroom, or stretch break. Your mileage may, of course, vary. The biggest problem with your particular trip isn't the time for charging, but the general lack of charging infrastructure along the shortest route. If you route through superchargers, the distance is about 300 miles longer due to the need to take I-70 into Kansas to follow the chargers. This should improve with time, and current owners will benefit, but until it does there are some trips that are just not as good with superchargers. But improvements there pay off a lot better than improvements in range beyond 300 miles.

rjusher 11y ago

One thing I don't understand is the position of the big car makers(BMW, MB, AUDI) being a passive observer in this field. Tesla is getting so much, that if any automaker that can deliver a car with half the specs of a model S, and keeping their model's prices as a mass produced car, would deliver a big punch to Tesla, and would greatly move the market forward. Is it the investment necessary for building a network of charging stations? I highly doubt it is because Tesla has more money for R&D than any other car maker. Is getting a Model S, earns you the title of being an early adopter. Because I believe the market already shifted towards this type of vehicles, but I may be polarized, because I already desire an electric car.

bravo22 11y ago
The batteries in a Tesla aren't very green and sadly they are quite large. Big automakers think in volumes of millions of cars, Tesla delivers about 25K (EDIT: looks like 40K projected for this year[1]) cars a year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tesla-earnings-review-small-margin-production-improvements-in-q1-too-small-for-2015-targets/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tes...
- chambo622 11y ago
  Try ~55k this year
  - bravo22 11y ago
    Maybe that is sold? Per this [1] article from May their delivery per quarter is about 10K units, so about 40K/yr. I'll update my reply. http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tesla-earnings-review-small-margin-production-improvements-in-q1-too-small-for-2015-targets/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/05/12/tes...
    - eatmyshorts 11y ago
      According to Tesla's own statements, they are planning to deliver 55k this year, and their Q2 deliveries of 11,507 puts them on track (by their own estimates). I would assume some of those deliveries will be for the Model X, which is supposed to start shipping in Q3. Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sets-a-new-record-for-car-deliveries-in-second-quarter-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sets-a-new-record-for-c...

curiousjorge 11y ago

this alone will be a good enough excuse to get this car if you could afford it. Asides Nissan GTR, supercars running in 300,000 USD will do roughly 3.0~3.1. hypercars like pagani, p1, porsche, laferrari achieve sub 3.0 I'm extremely impressed. Even more because this was just another regular software update.

dandrews 11y ago
Not only s/w this time.
myth_buster 11y ago
It's not a software upgrade One catch: unlike most Tesla Model S tuning enhancements, this one isn’t a software update — and it’s not free. Why? Because Tesla had to make new, physical hardware to make this possible. Specifically, they had to make a fuse that didn’t melt when you pulled ridiculously high amperages over it. The fuse upgrade will be a $10k option for new buyers, and cost $5k (before installation) for existing P85D owners.

vvanders 11y ago

More impressive to me is the fact that the 90kWh battery is already trickling down to the Model S. It was originally developed for the Model X. I think it's safe to say that we'll see Model X features moving down to the Model S much faster than previously thought. This is how you relentlessly improve a product instead of holding specific features to a Model without solid technical reasons.

beambot 11y ago
I've been reading Henry Ford's autobiography ("My Life and Work"), and it seems like Musk is taking a page directly from Ford's playbook with continuous product (and component) updates that are (mostly) backwards compatible with previously-produced vehicles in the same model. The parallels are pretty amazing, and they go much much deeper too (eg. fabrication automation, experimentation, engineering to the highest extent possible, etc).
- rebolek 11y ago
  I hope they don't go too much deep... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

burger_moon 11y ago

0-60 times are nice but I want to know what the 60-100 time is. That's what generally used for 1/4 mile estimates. Is there any diagrams of information easily available about the couple style used between the motors and the wheel hubs? I wonder how they're done and what the limit of them is with the amount of torque they put out. In a previous life I used to build a lot of race cars and shearing axle bolts wasn't uncommon in drag applications. It would be awesome to see them test out a full on drag tesla.

ylhert 11y ago
I'd imagine pretty good. It's got such a low drag coefficient, and at those speeds liquifying the tires is not as much of a problem. I'd think that the 60-100 times might be more impressive than it's 0-60 when compared to conventional cars!
- eatmyshorts 11y ago
  Looks like an 2012 model that is not the P85 and did not have the OTA performance update from last year could do it in about 9 seconds. For a reference, that's faster than a BMW M5. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03g4UHtCWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03g4UHtCWo
aidenn0 11y ago
This article[1] was posted to Reddit, and included a 1/4 mile time of 10.9s and peak acceleration of 1.1g 1: http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-speed-model-s http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-sp...

Jun8 11y ago

On a different note: is it possible to opt out of Tesla software updates (for whatever reason)? AFAIK, this is not possible (http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/same-distasteful-appeasing http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/same-distasteful-appe...) The two options when an update is available seem to be install now or later.

braum 11y ago

and still no Model X or even serious updates about it... and yet I will still let them keep my $5k until it arrives...

fowlslegs 11y ago

Seems like they took inspiration from the branding on the Chromebook Pixel LS (Ludicrous Speed)--the 16GB RAM, i7 one that I'm lucky enough to have ;-) Fun fact: most cars today run about 20 separate operating systems. My guess is Tesla is fairly above average. Anyone have a figure on this?

dragonwriter 11y ago
> Seems like they took inspiration from the branding on the Chromebook Pixel LS (Ludicrous Speed) More likely, both Google and Tesla took inspiration from the movie Spaceballs.

aswanson 11y ago

I wonder if it will have a "Drake" mode to do 0-100 real quick.