19 ms·
Microsoft to Cut Jobs, Take $7.6B Nokia Writedown
- skrowl 11y agoYou're a software company. Get out of the hardware business and start making Android software.
- revscat 11y agoThe XBox line has been pretty successful.
- tdicola 11y agoIf success is not defined as making money or being the top selling console then sure I guess it's successful at something.
- jasonlotito 11y agoWhen has success been defined as just being #1 or making money here at HN? And no, I don't consider raising money from VCs or being sold as making money.
- exelius 11y agoOnly in the US. It's been pretty much a flop everywhere else.
- soapdog 11y agoSurface 3 and 3 Pro are pretty impressive hardware. They work pretty well and are a joy to use.
- romanovcode 11y agoSurface 4 will not be too good though if the rumors that it'll run on M processor are true.
- soapdog 11y agoI have a surface 3, its an atom 7x cpu. I was really worried but for my coffee house workflow of editing html/css/js files, doing lots of email and videoconferencing its great. It all depends on how you approach it. I approach mine as a tablet that can do so much more. These days I mostly leave the macbook air home but then again my load is not cpu heavy. I can see some workloads where the M based processor will be a bad choice...
- joshuapants 11y agoI disagree. There are already issues with heat and power consumption in the Surface Pro 3 especially with the higher end processors. What's the point of a powerful and power-hungry processor if it's just going to throttle hard when you really try to use it? If you need a ton of power, you need a workstation not an ultrabook/tablet hybrid. The rumored changes should allow for better battery life, cooler operation, and probably a minimal (if any) impact on performance on tasks that suit the form factor.
- PhantomGremlin 11y agoWhat's the point of a powerful and power-hungry processor I strongly agree. The same amounts to laptops, at least for me. I have a Macbook Pro, 13", 2.9 GHz Core i7, non-retina. About 99% of the time my laptop is less than 10% utilized. Even when I run VMware/Windows it barely breaks a sweat. I got the i7 because it was only $100 more once I got the model with 8 GB RAM. Wasted money. Phones, laptops, tablets --> same thing. Mostly used to consume content, probably less than 10% of users need a high end processor. As you say, better battery life and cooler operation are the things that should be optimized for, especially with phones and tablets. I concede that a decent minority of users can make a good argument for owning a powerful laptop.
- Zigurd 11y agoMicrosoft is capable of making nice hardware. Some of the phone hardware is excellent. BUT making and selling hardware profitably is a puzzle they have not solved. And making it all make sense w.r.t. their OEMs and overall strategy has been even harder.
- 123jay7 11y agoI think you're right, but if the hardware was good, it would sell. The reason they have no profitably is because no body cares. Are you honestly going to tell me the greatest hardware in the world is not selling simply because MS doesn't "know how"? Microsoft is a pig, and you can't put lipstick on a pig.
- AnimalMuppet 11y agoMicrosoft keyboards and mice are pretty good. In fact, I have occasionally described Microsoft as a pretty good hardware manufacturer with some unfortunate ventures into software ;-)
- mmahemoff 11y ago68 Android apps by Microsoft, you're welcome: https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Corporation https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Co...
- smackfu 11y agoIf you are an OS company, then it makes a lot of sense to be in the hardware business.
- JustSomeNobody 11y agoSure, we can just forget the past 30 years where they've been very successful at partnering with OEMs instead of trying to be one.
- joshuapants 11y agoThis assumes that everything that worked in the past will work in the present and future, which is not really a reasonable assumption.
- JustSomeNobody 11y agoTrue, but you can't assume becoming an OEM will work either.
- joshuapants 11y agoAbsolutely. But they have to do something, since standing still will allow their competition to eat them alive, and I think that moving into hardware along with their various services is a good move to at least try. It's probably too early to call it either way; the Xbox division took something like 6-7 years to start posting profit. Surface was (still is?) in the negative, but it's been gaining traction lately and if it isn't already profitable it will be soon. Surface in particular is a good example of what they should do in hardware: make something that nobody else really does and do a damn good job of it. There are other Windows tablets, but nothing comes close to Surface in terms of build quality and form factor. They tried to differentiate the Xbox One with Kinect, which didn't work, but points to that being their strategy. With Windows Phone though, I'm not really seeing it. The main draw is the OS (which isn't much of a draw because of the low marketshare -> no apps feedback cycle).
- fredkbloggs 11y ago
- Delmania 11y agohttps://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Corporation&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Co... Looks like they got that covered.
- realusername 11y agoGoogle is also a software company with this reasoning.
- aikah 11y ago> Google is also a software company with this reasoning. And very few people own a phone made directly by Google or a company owned by Google. Lumia is a Nokia Phone which is owned by Microsoft.
- draugadrotten 11y agoI'd argue that Google is an advertising company. Software, search and phones are just delivery mechanisms for the ads (which brings in the money)
- sangnoir 11y ago> I'd argue that Google is an advertising company. Software, search and phones are just delivery mechanisms for the ads (which brings in the money) That is exactly like saying "The New York Times is an advertising company. Newspaper and website are just delivery mechanisms for the ads (which brings in the money)" Software/AI is a Google core-competency, calling it a "mechanism for ads" seems to be under-selling them, especially when a huge chunk of the software they produce has nothing to do with ad-delivery
- ddeck 11y agoPress release: https://news.microsoft.com/2015/07/08/microsoft-announces-restructuring-of-phone-hardware-business/ https://news.microsoft.com/2015/07/08/microsoft-announces-re... CEO Email: https://news.microsoft.com/2015/07/08/satya-nadella-email-to-employees-on-sharpening-business-focus/ https://news.microsoft.com/2015/07/08/satya-nadella-email-to...
- tdicola 11y ago"Microsoft will record an impairment charge of about $7.6 billion on its Nokia handset unit" Wow, well there it is--looks like the rumor is true. So the Nokia deal was basically a complete flop?
- exelius 11y agoThis is actually amazing. Between Nokia and aQuantive, Microsoft dumped over $14 billion into two failed acquisitions. I can't recall another company over the last decade that has had a total write-off of that scale (well, maybe the HP-Autonomy thing, but there was likely some fraud involved there). I have absolutely no idea why they purchased Nokia in the first place -- it was obvious that they were never going to seriously challenge Apple or Google, and Nokia was another obviously sinking ship. It was like if Circuit City had purchased Radio Shack. I have no idea why the board let Ballmer blow billions on an acquisition they knew he wouldn't be around to see through and that didn't fit with the strategic direction of the company 6 months later. If I were an institutional investor, I would demand a change in board leadership. This kind of stuff is just unacceptable for a public company. I know hindsight is 20/20, but blowing $14 billion on acquisitions that were doomed to begin with is simply inexcusable. You can blame Ballmer for being a terrible CEO, but the blame really rests on the board for allowing him to make really big, really bad decisions.
- a1b2c3 11y agoYou're assuming the board knew any better. For all you know, Ballmer fought against it. They could have been screaming at him to get into phones and he found a solution. Full disclosure I revel in the demise of MS.
- tdicola 11y agoNo Balmer was known to have thrown a temper tantrum and was ready to quit on the spot if the board didn't approve of the Nokia purchase: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2475938/it-management/steve-ballmer-s-temper-tantrum-over-nokia-buyout-led-to-his-firing--says-report.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/2475938/it-management/s...
- RoboSeldon 11y agoI hope that Microsoft will someday buy Xamarin and give it with Visual Studio Community Edition. This way anyone will be able to publish for Windows Phone, Android and iOS from Visual Studio. Personally I like my Lumia phone with Windows 8.1 and I look forward to check how Windows 10 will run on this device.
- guiomie 11y agoJust received a lumia 635 on amazon, great phone, and my battery anxiety has gone away (almsot 3 days with one charge). I hope windows 10 will work on it.
- sp332 11y agoSome version of Win10 will run on it. Not sure if it's a version of Win10 you'll actually want. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2881672/nokias-pennypinching-may-come-back-and-haunt-some-lumia-owners.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2881672/nokias-pennypinching-...
- tonyedgecombe 11y agoI hope not, I'd much rather see developers like Xamarin remain independent of the likes of Microsoft, Google or Apple.
- Torn 11y agoMS should push Visual Studio Code, as that's properly multi-platform, and forget Xamarin. Now that the .NET CoreCLR is open source. Monodevelop is an awful piece of software.
- tluyben2 11y agoYou do not need to use Monodevelop, even on Windows or Mac to write Xamarin apps. Monodevelop is just the most obvious as it's packaged. And agreed, Monodevelop is not very good.
- 11y ago
- JonoW 11y ago"Microsoft will focus its phone efforts on three segments: Businesses, value-phone buyers and flagship phone customers, moving forward." Doesn't that pretty much cover all potential customers?
- richmarr 11y agoAh, but they're only focusing on productivity at work and at home, and on the move, so that helps narrow it down.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- kshatrea 11y agoI read into that that they'll make business Lumias, for value customers not make Lumia but instead make cheap Androids or Ashas and only make Lumia flagships otherwise - basically far fewer Lumias and basic phones. I could be wrong of course.
- higherpurpose 11y agoMicrosoft is going with a bold new strategy here, to cover all market segments at once and try to please all customers. It's never been done before.
- draugadrotten 11y ago>* Doesn't that pretty much cover all potential customers?* That may make more sense in comparison with the 2014 strategy, which didn't include all potential customers and specifically avoided the high end and business markets in order to focus on the value-phone buyers in "emerging markets" so as to "connect the next billion people". [2014 - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-23/microsoft-targets-cheaper-phones-to-tap-global-internet-growth http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-23/microsoft-... ] Focusing on business and flagship phone customers is a change in strategy which puts Microsoft into direct competition with Apple and Samsung. Good luck with that, now.
- jonlucc 11y ago
- higherpurpose 11y ago"Restructures" as in making it much smaller.
- tdicola 11y ago> much smaller Not really, they have ~118k employees and are planning to remove about 7800, so about a 7% reduction. For reference Apple has 98k employees, Google 55k, Facebook 10k.
- CaptainApathy 11y agoAround half of Apple's are retail employees. Microsoft has retail employees as well, but overall their employee mix is very different. Still, your main point stands: a 7% reduction is perhaps significant, but probably not "large."
- robotnoises 11y agoWhere I work they call it "rebalancing."
- newsreader 11y agoI own a Lumia 925, my wife owns a Lumia 640, and we use a Lumia 520 as our home line. I realize that Windows has a small share of the mobile phone market in the US but everybody that I've ever met that owns a Windows phone is pretty happy with their purchase -- I am. Apple phones are too expensive for my budget, and I tried helping a family member with his Android device and quickly realized I had made the right decision buying a Windows phone. I'm looking forward to see how the new OS (Windows 10) works on my devices.
- the-dude 11y agoHow much are you paid for posting this? This just reads as blatant advertising.
- paganel 11y agoNot sure why you're getting downvotted, over here in Europe the Lumia phones are pretty popular.
- MatthiasP 11y agoThey are popular in some parts of Europe because of the Lumia (Nokia) brand, not because of Windows phone.
- Someone1234 11y agoThe two things are inseparable at this point. So I don't really understand the distinction you're making, it isn't as if people buying a Lumia don't know it will be running Windows Mobile.
- Grue3 11y agoNo, I would bet most people buy them because it's a Nokia, regardless of the OS. Case in point, my mother who seems to only buy Nokias because they used to be the best brand. I told her to buy an Android phone and she somehow found and bought a Nokia Android phone (I didn't even know they existed). It had some weird Metro skin too so that it looks like a Windows Phone but is actually an Android.
- IanDrake 11y agoThey really need to reduce the number of phones they produce. There are so many damn phones models and the numbers / names make no sense. What they need is a surface phone. One phone, three variants. Surface Phone - Low-Mid Range Surface Pro Phone - High end w/continuum Surface Pro+ Phone - High end Phablet w/continuum That would match their naming for the tablet and cause little confusion about what they are in the minds of consumers.
- AdmiralAsshat 11y agoConsidering there was already so much confusion about the ARM-based Surface vs the x86-based Surface Pro line, I don't think they want to introduce additional confusion by also having the "Surface" name now apply to phones and restart that headache.
- IanDrake 11y agoThe ARM based "Surface" has been replaced by the Intel based Surface 3. Try to keep up with the MS cluster f*k of naming! ;)
- Retra 11y agoI have never met someone who cared what processor was in their phone to the point where it should influence branding whatsoever.
- chadzawistowski 11y agoPerhaps average consumers don't care about processor architecture, but they do care about what programs will run. Surface RT was "that tablet that kinda has a desktop but can only run Office" versus "that tablet that can run any Windows program from 1995 onwards".
- mohamedattahri 11y agoI wonder how unifying all devices around Windows 10 relates to this number. After all, it makes sense to reduce the workforce when you only have one core, one API and one set of bundled universal apps to maintain and develop. Though I doubt the 7,800 were all engineering and design.
- camhenlin 11y agoI tried out a Lumia 925 on my last contract. It was a decent phone overall, very solid feeling feeling phone with a good camera and a snappy UI. My biggest complaint is that Internet Explorer mobile is slow and for the longest time did not handle touch events properly (I actually wrote a polyfill for this one: https://github.com/CamHenlin/TouchPolyfill/ https://github.com/CamHenlin/TouchPolyfill/ .) It's a completely broken web experience compared to Chrome on Android and Safari on iOS which is pretty unacceptable on a "high end" device. Microsoft should port Chromium or Firefox themselves and it would be a pretty fantastic device overall
- akshat_h 11y agoThere are a few third-party browsers like ubrowser that may give somewhat better experience. I had a lumia 520, and ubrowser gave a better experience than Internet Explorer on that phone.
- cromulent 11y agoOn another note, Nokia sales were up 20% first quarter this year (YoY), and profits up 65%. Sales were 3.2B€. http://company.nokia.com/en/investors/financial-reports/results-reports http://company.nokia.com/en/investors/financial-reports/resu...
- nacs 11y agoAnd profits were only 181 million for the quarter..
- imh 11y agoDoes anyone know a good adblock-like firefox extension that keeps videos from playing on pages like this? I hate it so so so much.
- AndrewDucker 11y agohttps://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/set-adobe-flash-click-play-firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/set-adobe-flash-click-p...
- imh 11y agoYeah, I really wish there was a solution that wasn't 'nuke all flash by default.' If there were a 'nuke all flash with sound by default, except for dedicated video sites (e.g. youtube)' that would be ideal.
- Lennu 11y agoNokia the company, not the current phone brand, but the company which sold its phone business to Microsoft. (Yes very confusing) Anyway Nokia's CEO has made a statement that they are going to start making phones again: http://fortune.com/2015/06/22/nokia-ceo-phones/ http://fortune.com/2015/06/22/nokia-ceo-phones/ The Nokia - Microsoft deal lasts till 2016.
- petilon 11y agoNokia remains a separate company and the Microsoft agreement allows Nokia to get back into phones next year, and they intend to do so. (See link below.) The best phone engineers being laid off today will probably be rehired by Nokia. The Microsoft deal turned to be heavily in favor of Nokia. They got 7+ billion dollars, and will continue to make and sell phones, except they will now be Android phones. Essentially Nokia got $7 Billion for staying out of the phone market for a couple of years. Nokia to make phones again in 2016: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/18/us-nokia-phones-idUSKBN0OY21320150618 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/18/us-nokia-phones-id...
- keithpeter 11y agoNokia S30/S40 cheap end candybar phones. Who will continue to make those? Nokia 225 and Nokia 108 quite common round here recently. Low income neighbourhood, UK.
- api 11y agoNokia and RIM... they sort of loosely remind me of Commodore and Atari from the early-mid PC era. Mobile today is sort of like the late PC era -- we have Apple and IBM in the form of roughly iOS and Google/Android. Interesting how history repeats. I'm sort of wondering if Cyanogen might not be Microsoft to Google's Android.
- AdmiralAsshat 11y agoSomething not mentioned in this article but in another[0]: Microsoft added around 25,000 jobs when it bought the mobile department from Nokia. The 8,000 jobs they cut today are on top of the 18,000 they cut last July. Since both were focused "primarily" on the Nokia acquisitions, by my count nearly everyone from that is gone now. [0]:http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-reportedly-plans-another-major-round-of-job-cuts/ http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-reportedly-plans-another-...
- mrbill 11y agoI bought a Lumia 1020 a year ago (mostly to play with the 42MP camera) and it's a great piece of hardware (I'm an Android person for daily / main use). However, I upgraded to the first Win10 for Mobile preview, an d now it refuses to upgrade to a newer build ("Update was downloaded but could not be opened" - and I've tried 6-7 times). If I could get something that was hardware-wise as good as the 1020 (or the other high-end Nokia phones) that ran Android 5.1.1, it would almost be my perfect phone.
- Animats 11y agoSo Microsoft will now focus on three areas: "personal computing, cloud platforms and business productivity." That leaves Microsoft in the same field as IBM and HP. That's OK, but it turns into a consulting and customization business. It's not mass market. That's sort of where IBM is now. IBM, which once dominated the personal computer industry, has few if any retail products today.
- rbanffy 11y agoRemember when people said that going with Android would doom Nokia?
- reiichiroh 11y agoWP apps languish on the unpoliced MS App Store (with tons of rip-off apps and copyright infringers) abandoned without feature parity (vs other multi-platform apps for a service) sitting at v1.0 for years before being withdrawn from sale.
- widowlark 11y agoTo me, this seems like a positive. Microsoft is infamous for acquiring and keeping bloat, and its one of the things that has traditionally knocked them out of the spotlight. With this kind of restructuring, it gives Microsoft a chance to make their business and strategy right - even if its the second or third try doing so.
- KineticTroi 11y agoI wouldn't take this write-down to be any indication of failure. Just a likely business restructure. One year is nothing in the scheme of evaluating a business unit. I like that you can get parts for these Nokia phones on the cheap and repair them. Also, if you can troubleshoot a browser on any Windows OS, you can troubleshoot a browser on a Windows Nokia. My view is that these phones are a lot higher on the quality scale than 99 percent of droids and have less engineered fails than iphone.