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The Aol Chat Room Monitor Revolt (2014)
- scholia 11y agoGood point ;-)
- pcunite 11y agoGreat article. It was 1997 I believe and my dad and I sent each other a message over AOL instant messenger for the first time. It felt like magic to communicate that way. The phone was few feet away but this seemed futuristic and awe inspiring.
- pbhjpbhj 11y ago>As described, Reddit is an interesting example where people voluntarily fill the same community leader role that Aol’s volunteers did, although they do so with fewer restrictions and more agency. // Presumably the current Reddit debacle is the stimulation for posting this now. The article mentions Buzzfeed and Youtube models too. Quite interesting.
- RyanMcGreal 11y agoI had to look up the current reddit debacle: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/reddit-in-revolt-moderators-shut-down-popular-parts-of-the-website-in-solidarity-with-fired-friend-10363099.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new... I'm still not sure what's going on, though.
- Zombieball 11y agoThis /r/OutOfTheLoop thread is the go-to recap at the moment: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3bxduw/why_was_riama_along_with_a_number_of_other_large/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3bxduw/why_wa...
- yk 11y agoAs far as I understand, reddit did introduce a new search function yesterday, which pissed off mods of several subreddits. [1] Additionally they fired(?) an employee who acted as a interface between the r/IAmA mods and the people who do amAs [2], who are usually not redditors. So the mods of r/IamA set there sub to private. That means that only invited users can see the sub. From there quite a few other mods did declare their frustration with reddits communication, their solidarity with either the IAmA mods or Victoria and various other grievances. And either set their subs to private or at least declared their solidarity. And by now half of reddit is private and the other half rages agains the admins. ( Reddits front page, that is the ~20 highest upvoted posts on the site, are uniformly against reddit.) For a bit more details see [3]. [1] https://pay.reddit.com/r/self/comments/3bvkf0/stop_throwing_beer_cans_on_my_lawn_while_im/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/self/comments/3bvkf0/stop_throwing_... [2] ask me Anything, basically the community interviews someone interesting. [3] https://pay.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3bxduw/why_was_riama_along_with_a_number_of_other_large/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3bxduw/why_wa...
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- cddotdotslash 11y agoIt doesn't seem like it. It's very clear to point out the differences between AOL's mandatory time commitment and rules and Reddit's "suggested tips."
- cddotdotslash 11y agoFor context, the original comment was asking if the article was encouraging Reddit moderators to sue Reddit.
- gesman 11y agoAlso - lets not forget that chat room monitors were willing to put up with the AOL TOS, hours and conditions for one good reason: that sweet feeling of power to kick and ban other people (and likely to brag about it to their buddies).
- jseliger 11y agothat sweet feeling of power to kick and ban other people (and likely to brag about it to their buddies). Yes: I wrote about that problem here: http://jakeseliger.com/2015/03/16/the-moderator-problem-how-reddit-and-related-news-sites-decline/ http://jakeseliger.com/2015/03/16/the-moderator-problem-how-... and there is some HN discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9217628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9217628. I don't really see a way around these problems: Paying people would be too expensive for sites like Reddit, and "volunteers" suffer from adverse selection.
- nickstinemates 11y agoOh the days of phishing those accounts and writing punters. It's definitely what got me in to programming. Vb4ever.
- excitom 11y agoKind of off topic, but the "Aol" branding has always grated on me. It's an acronym, AOL, not a word.
- osconfused 11y agoOriginally, yes it was an acronym, then they officially changed it to a word in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL
- omegaham 11y agoYep, just like KFC is no longer "Kentucky Fried Chicken" - it's just KFC.
- x43b 11y ago"Yep, just like KFC is no longer "Kentucky Fried Chicken" - it's just KFC." The very first words at KFC.com are "Kentucky Fried Chicken" Doing a text search on the home page says Kentucky shows up two more times.
- hammock 11y agoFrom 1991 to 2006, it was just KFC. http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.asp http://www.snopes.com/lost/kfc.asp
- dredmorbius 11y agoNB: that Snopes page is part of its The Repository Of Lost Legends (TROLL) section, a cautionary lesson in false authority: http://www.snopes.com/lost/false.asp http://www.snopes.com/lost/false.asp (And yes, I got sucked into the "Kentucky trademark" story too.) While Kentucky Fried Chicken did change its name, it wasn't for the reasons given in that account.
- hammock 11y ago
- mendelk 11y agoFor those "out of the loop", this was probably posted in relation to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9822580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9822580
- JanneVee 11y agoThis is partly what is happening. Reading in out of the loop subreddit the trigger is Victoria but the problem is different. The one I see as one of the biggest problems is. The unpaid volunteers aren't given the tools necessary to handle moderation of subreddits by reddit corporate. The tools moderators use comes from third parties and volunteers. [0] As an outsider I have understand why they are angry, trying to create safe spaces by sweeping(and inconsistent) bans of subreddits but not giving the tools to moderators to keep their subreddits clean. [0]https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3bxduw/why_was_riama_along_with_a_number_of_other_large/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3bxduw/why_wa...
- NoMoreNicksLeft 11y agoI'm not sure the reddit community (either moderators specifically, or redditors in general) are intelligent enough to know what tools they need. I once tried to suggest a new tool, and was attacked there for 3 weeks after on subredditdrama for requesting such a tool. My crime? Suggesting that moderators be able to ban everyone who (wrongly) upvotes an offtopic post. This would allow them to steer things back on topic, by punishing those who refuse to stay on topic.
- Karunamon 11y agoSuggesting that moderators be able to ban everyone who (wrongly) upvotes an offtopic post Reddit already has a problem with moderator abuse and nontransparency, and you want to give them the ability to ban people based on their votes? The literally only control that a user has over content? I can see why you were "attacked". That is an awful idea.
- nitrogen 11y agoIndeed. I think I read once that HN weights votes or comment positions by how often someone is drawn in by political "honey pot" stories. I don't know if it's true, but it at least suggests less drastic alternatives to banning for voting.
- whoopdedo 11y agoI see a significant difference between AOL and Reddit. AOL selected the monitors and had the power to remove their privileges. That's what made them essentially employees. Reddit moderators are mostly self-regulated. Even in the large subs new moderators are chosen by other moderators and rarely is a moderator of a sub involuntarily removed, except if they have abandoned the sub or violated the terms of service. I can see how Reddit is not obligated to pay them because they volunteer by their own will and not at Reddit's discretion.
- logn 11y agoGiven the market cap of Facebook is $245 billion and it has 1.44 billion active users, then each user is $170 (170 == 245/1.44). If each user generates $1 for Facebook each quarter, that's $4/yr which is an annual return of 2.3% (2.3 == 4/170). I'm not sure where I stand on calling users "sharecroppers". Seems a little unreasonable. But the economics of it are interesting and concerning.
- adventured 11y agoWith 1.44 billion monthly actives, and going with the per user averaging, it comes out to ~$2.45 per user per quarter (as of the most recent quarter; it's safe to assume that will continue to increase for now). They're generating closer to $10 per year for Facebook. Your annual sales take jumps to 5.9%. A year from now that will probably be closer to 7%. PE ratios usually compress with time due to slowing growth. I would be comfortable predicting that Facebook will eventually get this calculation up to 15%+. Their PE ratio right now is 80, which is producing a massively warped calculation on the return %, as that PE compresses heavily over the next ten years, their return per user will skyrocket. If their PE ratio were a more sane 40 right now, this number would already be at ~12%. Double their annual income to $6 billion and their sales to $30 billion over a few years, drop their PE to 35 ($210b market cap), boost their user base to 2 billion, and it jumps to 14%. A very plausible outcome four years out. This is all calculated off of sales of course, not income.
- larcher 11y agoHaving trouble getting past the author's failure to distinguish between the web and the Internet... :-P
- MichaelCrawford 11y agoI understand that it is common for facebook users to think that facebook is the internet. Many do not understand that email has anything to do with the internet. I was in a psyciatric hospital when I pointed out to the staff that I needed to renew my domain names. They told me I could not do that so I asserted my right to manage my own fincial affairs, as is the law. the staff of that particular hospital know about that law so they will arrange for you to pay rent and the like. But they regarded my talk of domain names, registrars and renewals as delusionals. Then I started screaming and crying "But I am a webmaster!" You are going to throw me out on the streets." "We'll see." This went on for a few days then "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!" The next day one of the staff told me that a fellow patient suggested he put my name into Google. He apologized, then said "Sometimes I forget why I work here." Then he set me up on a staff computer so I could renew. Lots of mental hospitals have wifi or desktops. Others have no eay to contact the outside world at all.
- bluedino 11y agoWhat's the problem with letting the community work 'for free'? They are receiving benefits, even if non-monetary. Peer recognition, control, power... If foobar.com's forums asks me to an un-paid moderator and I gladly comply, I have no right to decide 6 months down the road that I shouldn't have been doing that work for free and deserve payment for it.
- saint_fiasco 11y agoWork laws are weird like that. There are certain things you can't consent to even if you really want to. For example, you can't agree to work for less than minimum wage, you can't agree to work for free to get rid of a debt, you can't agree to have sex with someone in exchange for money. These things apply even if you voluntarily sign a contract saying you consent.
- jacquesm 11y agoIt's all relative depending on your location any or all of those could be legal.
- brazzlemobile 11y agoI think everyone understands that different places have different laws.
- navait 11y agoIt's an article about US labor law.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- nness 11y agoLets say, theoretically, that a similar ruling were found for some of the Reddit moderators. Wouldn't it be in Reddit's best interest to immediately terminate their employment and find a way to bring in more cost-effective moderators?