11 ms·

3D Printing of a Steel Bridge in Amsterdam

49 points by JDDunn9 11y ago

DickingAround 11y ago
Why don't we have evacuated or argon chamber 3d weld printing? Too much electricity? That feels like a $5k/month project. Does this already exist? Or should we build it? :)
- 542458 11y ago
  Some Direct metal laser sintering processes [1] use an argon flood already! It isn't necessary for all metals though. [1]: https://www.solidconcepts.com/resources/design-guidelines/dmls-design-guidelines/ https://www.solidconcepts.com/resources/design-guidelines/dm...
m0llusk 11y ago
This advances the art, but it is not clear that economies of large scale production can be easily overcome and thus it is likely that the future will be a mix of mass produced components assembled by various automated processes.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I noticed both on their website, their article, and their video that they're using two industrial robots for the task. Why could this not be scaled up with additional robots working in cooperation for larger jobs? You're limited only to how quickly the material cures so you can begin using it to further advance, and the complexity of adding additional workers in the space constrained 3 dimensional workspace.
proee 11y ago
Seems a lot more practical to have a stick of rebar that a multi-axis robot can cut and spot weld then to create each member from scratch.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Would spot welding rebar piece by piece convey the same tensile strength as forming each member?
  - sitkack 11y ago
    The process this 3d printing technique is using is welding on top of itself, so the whole thing is filler material. Definitely not up to code.
  - proee 11y ago
    It would be MUCH stronger to use rebar for each member than doing this additive method.
Panoramix 11y ago
I fail to see the hype of 3D printing. We have milling machines for ages. As I understand it, what printing brings to the table is good niche applications where the shapes would be difficult for traditional machinery. Or when the printers are so cheap that "everyone" can afford them (not really there yet). For most applications it seems more a "because we can" than actually solving a problem people have.
- Zikes 11y ago
  The hype is less about present practicality and more about the future. Within just the last few years print resolution and available print materials have skyrocketed while printer prices have dropped enough that you can even find them on some store shelves. If that trend should continue, it may well supplant "traditional machinery" in some areas. Until then, we have hobbyists and artists working to improve the industry and bring attention to the potential it can have for the future.
- IshKebab 11y ago
  Well this particular use seems a bit weird. But in general 3D printers are extremely useful, mainly as time savers. Yes you can machine most shapes that you'd want, and you'd probably end up with a nicer result. But it's far more difficult, expensive and time consuming. 1. You have to manually do all the work, or at least set up tool paths which is a pain (and good software for this is even rarer than good solid modelling software). 2. You can't do as complicated shapes. I'm not talking fractals, I mean can you mill a plastic latch as easily as I can 3D print one? No way. 3. It just takes longer. Once I've done my CAD with 3D printing the work is basically done. With machining it's only just beginning. 4. If I make a mistake in my model and have to make a change, it is extremely quick to just do the modifications and reprint it. 5. If I want more than one of them I just click print again. You're right that good 3D printers are still quite expensive (FDM ones aren't really worth it, but there are SLA printers for a few grand now). However good milling machines cost a similar amount, and CNC milling machines cost more. The image problem with 3D printers is because all the cool and actually useful uses are one-off and in companies so they don't get talked about as much trinkets and jewellery. For example I made a mount at work that attaches a stepper motor to a linear slide. Can't release it to the world though.
3am 11y ago
Would this actually be a pretty bad application of 3-d printing? I thought the metals were generally or exclusively done through sintering, and and for some reason (may be incorrect) it didn't do as well with tensile & deformation stress. Not to mention porosity. Seems like something a casted product would be better for.
nashashmi 11y ago
I am surprised at the negativity here. I learned from the little bit of information I have gathered from the historical development of computing that computers were initially only designed for circuitry to automate stuff. Speed was an afterthought. Fast forward to today, reiterations on speed have broadened the uses of computers beyond simply automation. Likewise, this kind of work is not really just about the hype on 3D printing but it's the ability to automate things. Tomorrow, reiterations on 3D printing will bring speed, accessibility, and democratization of abilities, not to mention the lowering of cost. Then after tomorrow, or maybe even today, we will have 3D dismantling. Again to automate recycling and reuse of resource.
- jlarocco 11y ago
  > Likewise, this kind of work is not really just about the hype on 3D printing but it's the ability to automate things. Tomorrow, reiterations on 3D printing will bring speed, accessibility, and democratization of abilities, not to mention the lowering of cost. That argument doesn't work. Computers were the quickest growing and improving technology in history. I actually like 3D printing, and think it's pretty neat, but it's also pretty limited right now. I believe it will improve, probably a lot, but it's asking a lot comparing to computers.
  - nekopa 11y ago
    I guess that is if you mean digital computers. We could sat that computers started in 1801 with the Jacquard Loom, meaning we may have to wait about a 180 years to see what 3D printing turns into. Then again, could we say that the Jacquard Loom was actually the first 3D (2D?) printer?

49 points by JDDunn9 11y ago

Why don't we have evacuated or argon chamber 3d weld printing? Too much electricity? That feels like a $5k/month project. Does this already exist? Or should we build it? :)

542458 11y ago
Some Direct metal laser sintering processes [1] use an argon flood already! It isn't necessary for all metals though. [1]: https://www.solidconcepts.com/resources/design-guidelines/dmls-design-guidelines/ https://www.solidconcepts.com/resources/design-guidelines/dm...

m0llusk 11y ago

This advances the art, but it is not clear that economies of large scale production can be easily overcome and thus it is likely that the future will be a mix of mass produced components assembled by various automated processes.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I noticed both on their website, their article, and their video that they're using two industrial robots for the task. Why could this not be scaled up with additional robots working in cooperation for larger jobs? You're limited only to how quickly the material cures so you can begin using it to further advance, and the complexity of adding additional workers in the space constrained 3 dimensional workspace.

proee 11y ago

Seems a lot more practical to have a stick of rebar that a multi-axis robot can cut and spot weld then to create each member from scratch.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Would spot welding rebar piece by piece convey the same tensile strength as forming each member?
- sitkack 11y ago
  The process this 3d printing technique is using is welding on top of itself, so the whole thing is filler material. Definitely not up to code.
- proee 11y ago
  It would be MUCH stronger to use rebar for each member than doing this additive method.

Panoramix 11y ago

I fail to see the hype of 3D printing. We have milling machines for ages. As I understand it, what printing brings to the table is good niche applications where the shapes would be difficult for traditional machinery. Or when the printers are so cheap that "everyone" can afford them (not really there yet). For most applications it seems more a "because we can" than actually solving a problem people have.

Zikes 11y ago
The hype is less about present practicality and more about the future. Within just the last few years print resolution and available print materials have skyrocketed while printer prices have dropped enough that you can even find them on some store shelves. If that trend should continue, it may well supplant "traditional machinery" in some areas. Until then, we have hobbyists and artists working to improve the industry and bring attention to the potential it can have for the future.
IshKebab 11y ago
Well this particular use seems a bit weird. But in general 3D printers are extremely useful, mainly as time savers. Yes you can machine most shapes that you'd want, and you'd probably end up with a nicer result. But it's far more difficult, expensive and time consuming. 1. You have to manually do all the work, or at least set up tool paths which is a pain (and good software for this is even rarer than good solid modelling software). 2. You can't do as complicated shapes. I'm not talking fractals, I mean can you mill a plastic latch as easily as I can 3D print one? No way. 3. It just takes longer. Once I've done my CAD with 3D printing the work is basically done. With machining it's only just beginning. 4. If I make a mistake in my model and have to make a change, it is extremely quick to just do the modifications and reprint it. 5. If I want more than one of them I just click print again. You're right that good 3D printers are still quite expensive (FDM ones aren't really worth it, but there are SLA printers for a few grand now). However good milling machines cost a similar amount, and CNC milling machines cost more. The image problem with 3D printers is because all the cool and actually useful uses are one-off and in companies so they don't get talked about as much trinkets and jewellery. For example I made a mount at work that attaches a stepper motor to a linear slide. Can't release it to the world though.

3am 11y ago

Would this actually be a pretty bad application of 3-d printing? I thought the metals were generally or exclusively done through sintering, and and for some reason (may be incorrect) it didn't do as well with tensile & deformation stress. Not to mention porosity. Seems like something a casted product would be better for.

nashashmi 11y ago

I am surprised at the negativity here. I learned from the little bit of information I have gathered from the historical development of computing that computers were initially only designed for circuitry to automate stuff. Speed was an afterthought. Fast forward to today, reiterations on speed have broadened the uses of computers beyond simply automation. Likewise, this kind of work is not really just about the hype on 3D printing but it's the ability to automate things. Tomorrow, reiterations on 3D printing will bring speed, accessibility, and democratization of abilities, not to mention the lowering of cost. Then after tomorrow, or maybe even today, we will have 3D dismantling. Again to automate recycling and reuse of resource.

jlarocco 11y ago
> Likewise, this kind of work is not really just about the hype on 3D printing but it's the ability to automate things. Tomorrow, reiterations on 3D printing will bring speed, accessibility, and democratization of abilities, not to mention the lowering of cost. That argument doesn't work. Computers were the quickest growing and improving technology in history. I actually like 3D printing, and think it's pretty neat, but it's also pretty limited right now. I believe it will improve, probably a lot, but it's asking a lot comparing to computers.
- nekopa 11y ago
  I guess that is if you mean digital computers. We could sat that computers started in 1801 with the Jacquard Loom, meaning we may have to wait about a 180 years to see what 3D printing turns into. Then again, could we say that the Jacquard Loom was actually the first 3D (2D?) printer?