7 ms·
Squareup
- ssn 17y agoAt first glance, it fells like a joke.
- dacort 17y agoWow - love the concept and vision here. Were I such a person, I might dub this payments 2.0. This image on their home page gave me chills, though. http://a1.sqimg.com/static/6c1cc3c1ad109e13d0be182c75c4707620ef0a4c/images/home/accept-payments.jpg http://a1.sqimg.com/static/6c1cc3c1ad109e13d0be182c75c470762... But that's likely only because I'm a half-paranoid security geek.
- mmagin 17y agoI seriously gotta wonder how the iPhone of some random person (which has various third party apps on it, etc.) is going to meet the kind of security requirements the card issuer cares about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Card_Industry_Data_Security_Standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Card_Industry_Data_Secu...
- wmf 17y agoHaven't you heard? The App Store approval process prevents any trace of evil from getting into the iPhone. Also, most Windows PCs aren't PCI-DSS compliant but people still use them for online shopping and banking.
- callmeed 17y agoI am excited about this ... at the same time, it would need some specific features for me to be a customer. This would be ideal for us at tradeshows and seminars. We attend/sponsor about 5-10 per year and do quite a bit of business at a few of them. Instead of having a dedicated laptop in the back for sales, this would be much easier. On the other hand, we already have a merchant account (with Brain Tree). Plus, we have older clients still paying us with PayPal subscriptions. The last thing we need is another gateway/merchant company. I suspect there are many other businesses like us. I hope they are either very flexible or license the technology to other companies.
- dpcan 17y agoAnd they say innovation is dead in the U.S. Using the audio jack to read credit cards, brilliant. Thinking out loud: I assume it reads the strips and converts the information to tones - but I would love to read more about it. I just want to plug it into my computer and see what comes up in Audacity when I scan a card. I think this device/feature overwhelms the service as a whole actually.
- boucher 17y agoI think the opposite is true. The hardware is almost a gimmick to push what is otherwise a potentially powerful service. The theory behind this app is that individuals are now empowered to take credit cards for anything they previously would have had to take a cash or check for, which is increasingly important in our society where credit cards are becoming the normal way to pay for things. As for the hardware, it's a pretty old trick. Though I don't know any of the specifics of this device, you don't need to look any further than your graphing calculator to see the idea in use.
- ivankirigin 17y agoYou're 100% correct. Hardware is cool, but the merchant services side is what makes Square awesome
- wmf 17y agoHow is that different from PayPal? To me the hardware is what Square is about.
- ivankirigin 17y agoYes, paypal does something similar for online payments. I'm pretty sure the lag for merchants is longer. Note that PayPal was revolutionary and is worth many billions of dollars - largely because they could handle the fraud this kind of configuration causes.
- lsb 17y agoSo how do I buy it? What are the fees? It's backed by Khosla Ventures, so it's obviously not vaporware, but I don't see a call-to-action anywhere.
- ispivey 17y agoIt's in closed beta with a number of vendors, like @sightglass & @lilybellesf. According to their Twitter, they're taking beta applications later today: http://twitter.com/Square/status/6242394391 http://twitter.com/Square/status/6242394391
- socmoth 17y agothere is a form on the page now
- colbyolson 17y agoI know this wont be a very substantial comment but: That's pretty freaking cool.
- bumblebird 17y agoHow is this better than keying in the cc number + expiry date? Also I don't think this would work with chip+pin cards would it?
- sachinag 17y agoFaster?
- midnightmonster 17y agoFaster, which is not a trivial thing at all if you've got a line of potential customers (some of whom may change their mind or never get in line in the first place if things take too long), and there's additional data on the magstripe that proves the card is really present, which allows you to get better rates with your merchant account. If you have to key in the number and expiration, you'll pay higher rates.
- tsetse-fly 17y agoIs it not obvious? Why don't retail stores type in your credit card information instead of swiping it? Chip and PIN doesn't seem to exist in the US so I'd imagine they're not targeting it immediately. I don't see why they couldn't expand the hardware to support it though.
- bumblebird 17y agoAFAIK reading the chip is non trivial, and involves heavy encryption and proprietary hardware/software. Maybe though :/
- tsetse-fly 17y agoChip and PIN is a standard. They wouldn't have to reverse engineer it or implement from scratch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN
- bumblebird 17y ago
- zackattack 17y agoPlease roll this out to cab companies in Chicago
- javery 17y agoCEO is Jack Dorsey of Twitter fame.
- FreeRadical 17y agoI don't understand this comment, is this a statement or a swipe at him?
- yan 17y agoThe comment is added information; nothing more, nothing less.
- leej 17y agohe's the chairman and co-founder of Twitter.
- subbu 17y agoHow does it work? He is still part of Twitter. Can you be part of multiple startups of commercial interests?
- brown9-2 17y agoLast time I checked there is no law preventing you from having multiple jobs/businesses in this country.
- tiffani 17y agoI see this and I think...why hadn't PayPal done something like this already? It would make perfect sense for them have come out with something like this a long time ago, but who knows...
- bumblebird 17y agoClose to what paypal started as. Then they realized people didn't want to send payments using their PDAs, they wanted to send them via email.
- tiffani 17y agoTrue, but why not revisit the concept at some point especially since a lot more people are walking around with PDAs/smartphones/etc. now than when they first started.
- pxlpshr 17y ago...and obviously paypal was ahead of it's time, and I doubt the execution was as clean or user-friendly as square.
- bumblebird 17y agoI don't really understand the niche it's aiming to fill. Most stores/restaurants have portable card readers these days, so is it a poor-mans one of those? I guess I'm wondering what use-case it's aiming at. Also I absolutely would not trust someone swiping my card through one of these. I like a closed box that is obviously provided by a bank, which cannot be tampered with. Not an iphone that could be doing anything with my details.
- ericd 17y agoI've seen only a couple restaurants in NYC where the waiters have portable card readers. And if they roll out person-to-person, this would be a whole lot nicer than, say, having your friend write you a check.
- petenixey 17y agoVery cool - congrats to PK for being involved in this too. Looks beautiful.
- tbgvi 17y agoInteresting idea, I really like the hardware piece. Not sure how large of a market there is for this. Mom + Pop stores use CC terminals (cheaper than an iPhone), so that leaves this open to mostly people who accept payment outdoors at farmers markets, sports events, etc.. For that to work you'd have to be comfortable giving a merchant your credit card, which isn't a sure thing considering they can disappear without a brick+mortar store. Also, the merchant would have to be comfortable giving a customer their iPhone. I know I wouldn't want to hand out my phone to random people on the street. That being said, it looks cool and if I had a store I would definitely give it a try.
- uggedal 17y agoThe sex industry could be a large market.
- tbgvi 17y agoCould be :) Something like this could get merchants who don't traditionally accept credit to start
- kevindication 17y agoIn such a market, anonymity is probably preferred.
- olefoo 17y agoGift Cards. See things like http://www.swapagift.com/ http://www.swapagift.com/ And http://www.valutec.net/ http://www.valutec.net/ Be careful though, under US law since 2001, you are probably committing a financial crime by doing anything that looks like anonymous digital cash.
- cpach 17y agoProbably. But maybe less so in transactions that are not illegal.
- kareemm 17y agoit's unclear to me whether you need a merchant account to use square; i'm assuming from "0-$60 in under 10 seconds" that you don't. if you don't need a merchant account, the market for this is massive. there are millions of people who provide services and sell products who take cash, check, or paypal only. many of these people are dying to take credit cards with zero hassle, which square lets them do.
- Tichy 17y agoThis could revolutionize begging. One of the last jobs that has not benefited from the computer revolution yet.
- puffythefish 17y agoBegging with an iPhone?
- vaksel 17y agoa begger in a big town like NYC can clear 90-120K no problem.
- kareemm 17y agoi've heard this before but haven't been able to verify. do you have a source?
- omnipath 17y agoThis American Life did a podcast (can't find it at the moment) where they followed two guys who decided to become homeless, and beg for money in NYC while trying to write poetry and stories. Each guy easily cleared 60k, as I recall. So it's definitely doable. In fact, another article I read told about a couple in Portland, Oregon that cleared 50k between the two of the begging.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- wallflower 17y agoThis American Life source does not appear to check out on 60k while homeless figure: "Gregory: I was making 60 grand a year, 60 grand, not working hard. If I wanted to push it I could push it to 70. They want you to do over time on Wall Street. Wall Street judges you by your overtime. So yeah, I was raking it in. And I was spending it just as fast on alcohol. I would get up at 8 at night, take a shower, have a pint of Jack Daniel?s on me when I got into my car and drove to work." Poetry sample: "A Few of My (cough) Favorite Things" Waking up achy, And out in the open. Guard dogs are barking. Before words are spoken. Wrought iron benches, That causes suff-ring. These are a few of my favorite things. Taking a shower, With four dozen others. Moving around, In a stench that can smother. Finding that you, Are the source of the stink! These are a few of my favorite things. When the bottles dry, And the smokes are gone, And I'm feeling low http://www.prx.org/pieces/29262/transcripts/29262 http://www.prx.org/pieces/29262/transcripts/29262
- tom_b 17y agoI like it from the person to person interaction level. What about wear and tear on the audio in jack? Gas pumps and grocery stores have card swipers that look like little tanks bolted on.
- arfrank 17y agoTheoretically you could use any headphone extension cord to ease this problem considering it most likely uses an audio signal to pass the information. This would in turn let you attach the reader elsewhere on the phone. Although it seems like part of the point is to have a tiny device you can just pull in and out of your phone at need be.
- coffeemug 17y agoI think on a person to person level Bump would make more sense (I don't think they do payments yet, but it would be a logical next step).
- there 17y agoit would be neat if customers could download an app that would interface with a store using square. the customer could browse the menu, buy the product (coffee or whatever) and prepare their order before even getting to the store, then walk in, transmit the order wirelessly (or through the internet to the store) along with their stored payment info to the store's register and have everything processed right away without having to swipe anything or even stand in line. i'm sure there are existing iphone apps that do this for particular stores (chipotle comes to mind) but if it was a generic app that automatically worked with any store that accepted square, it would be pretty convenient.
- vaksel 17y agoThis sounds like a money grab business to me. They'll launch, make a couple hundred mil, then they'll get hit with fraud, a ton of people will lose money, and they'll be forced to shut down, since noone will want to use the service, in fear of getting defrauded. Since there is no barrier to entry, it'll be like 2 weeks before someone comes out with a black market version, that will look exactly the same, but instead of processing credit cards, it'll store them for future fraud. Will be like the ATM snooping devices, but instead of having to get into the bank, all you need is an iPhone, and some "small" business to rob people with. A taxi, or a newspaper stand. Edit: If you are going to downvote, at least tell me how exactly do you think this will avoid fraud from fakers who imitate the look and feel of the device?
- rcoder 17y agoMagstripe readers have been within the reach of any reasonably-clever fraudster for a long time. Attaching them to an iPhone and using audio modulation for the signal doesn't magically open the floodgates to card skimming and duplication. This isn't even as big a threat as, say, making people acclimated to the idea of joining open wireless networks at coffee shops -- card skimming at least requires physical access to the card for a few seconds.
- asciilifeform 17y ago> Magstripe readers have been within the reach of any reasonably-clever fraudster for a long time. If today a beggar extended his card reader-equipped iPhone to you, would you swipe? If this company takes off, in a few years you very well might. Payment methods which give third parties permanent access to your wallet are bad.
- allenp 17y agoI didn't vote you down, but giving them the benefit of the doubt, why don't you think they would address this obvious concern from the start?
- vaksel 17y ago
- khangtoh 17y agoDo they have a patent on the magnetic reader that interfaces using an phone jack? Just curious.
- iamdanw 17y agoI've seen prior art for this, so I should expect not
- javan 17y agoThe audio jack is on the top of the iPhone. What's it hooked up to in that picture?
- yan 17y agoThey also have a github repo up: http://github.com/square http://github.com/square
- allenp 17y agoDoes anyone know if this can be used between consumers (like paypal) or if it is vender-to-consumer only?
- alaskamiller 17y agoReader grabs card data, modulates it, the mic-in audio port hears it, software analyzes it, merchant service processes it, then you tweet it.
- datums 17y agoInnovative! Door to Door newspaper selling, Collections. Food Carts, Local Car Service, Donations. Anyone can take a payment for a service in real time. The transaction fees, security perception and ease of signup will determine it's adoption. The hardware cost can be reimburse to the client from the transaction fees.
- dannyr 17y agoGood technology but it's mainly for businesses. I'm still waiting for the ability to pay with your cellphone to any merchant. This is happening in Japan and Korea right now among others. Maybe an IPhone or Android will have an RFID chip in the future. Or maybe there will be a mobile app that displays a QR code that a merchant can scan and grab your credit card information.
- atamyrat 17y agoNo, it should be other way, merchant displays QR code with merchant's identity, payment amount, transaction ID and you authorize the transaction.
- olefoo 17y agoI like this idea. You could have expiring and non-expiring offers too, so that you could have a payment station that was not much more than a sign with a barcode.
- asciilifeform 17y agoThis may come as a shock to some, but: Magnetic cards (and all existing RFID equivalents) are bad. Instead of encouraging their use, we should be creating the mostly fraud-proof obvious alternative: one in which a single transaction does not give the other party permanent access to your wallet. Picture a card with a key pad on it, for entering a dollar amount. The transaction (through RFID?) would be valid for only that amount. All of the required cryptographic math has existed for decades. All we need now is the hardware and some infrastructure.
- yan 17y agoEntering an amount per transaction might be burdensome to the average consumer, which has a great time with just swiping cards and having all their transactions insured by the credit card company. Having a bulky keypad and a higher barrier of entry to buying that soft drink will have the majority complaining and opting out. If your goal is verification, an alternate system might have a display on the card that simply verifies the amount charged on most recent transaction, signed by the card processor. Crypto on cards is cheap and tested. This will add no new tasks to those that don't care and provide for a peace of mind to those who do.
- asciilifeform 17y ago> Entering an amount per transaction might be burdensome to the average consumer Shoppers have dealt with counting out money for millenia. The time spent is a small price to pay for total security against remote theft. At the very least, those of us who are not terminally lazy ought to have the option of paying it. > a display on the card that simply verifies the amount charged on most recent transaction Ever have your credit or bank card stolen? Thieves typically split their theft into numerous small transactions. Keypad or not, information sent to conduct a physical, face-to-face payment should not be re-usable in any way.
- yan 17y ago> Shoppers have dealt with counting out money for millenia. People have also worked 16 hour days to feed their families for millenia; no one's going to do that now. The amount of effort something takes almost always decreases. > The time spent is a small price to pay for total security against remote theft. At the very least, those of us who are not terminally lazy ought to have the option of paying it. How does this system provide 'total security' and guard against remote theft? There is no such thing as 'total security,' you're just mitigating risk. From the way it sounded, you punch in the amount at the time of physical swipe. Once you try to buy something online, you're outside the scope of your physical card. I do agree however that you should be able to opt in for services that require more verification for transferring money. If you want to spend $25 to get an RSA token to provide a code every time you purchase something, I don't see anything wrong with that service being offered to you. > Ever have your credit or bank card stolen? Thieves typically split their theft into numerous small transactions. No, I guess I personally did not. As far as the information I read about and had limited contact when I was associated with a security lab, carders distribute cc numbers in the thousands and resell them, and eventually do get charged in small amounts. Again, I don't see how a two-factor system would prevent this. But also admittedly, I've never spent any amount of time thinking about it nor did I personally research into this.
- niallsmart 17y agoI don't get it, why would you want to tweet your credit card number?
- amohr 17y agoSo our family business has been taking credit cards for 9 or 10 years - it's a mobile business, so we have always had to use a cell signal. The earlier machines were bulky and monstrously expensive, and so were the analog service plans for them. But now, data transfer is cheap, and card readers are as low as $400. I think it's also worth noting that, in that time, we've never had a problem with our card reader (the latest, we've had for about 4 years) but my ipod touch, which is a year old and sees far less punishment, has a broken home button.
- iamdanw 17y agoNeat idea with the reader but I guess it'll be limited to the US market since it can't support chip & pin transactions.
- grandalf 17y agoThis is an awesome idea... Why not just have it use the camera to OCR the front of the card?
- Nwallins 17y agoCredit card issuers (i.e. the bank that owns your cc account) trust the track data on the magstripe more than just the PAN embossed on the front of the card. This affects interchange fees, transaction costs, etc.
- jeremymims 17y agoThe feature I'm most excited about is e-mail receipts. If I never had another paper receipt again, I'd be perfectly happy. I also think using the audio jack as the reader is incredibly smart. Actually, there are two things about this system that I really like: 1. I can see a future where paper receipts are a thing of the past. 2. If someone uses my card fraudulently, I'll receive an e-mail a minute after it happens alerting me that something is amiss.
- pbhjpbhj 17y ago2. If someone uses my card fraudulently, I'll receive an e-mail a minute after it happens alerting me that something is amiss. And then? Do you think the banks will assume responsibility for allowing the fraud?
- estrabd 17y agogeee...what could go wrong here.
- pmikal 17y agoWireless terminals have been available for a long time. Verifone has sold thousands of wireless terminals with a built-in GPRS and ethernet. You can easily find them for less then $200 and are purpose built for retail. http://www.verifone.com/countertop/vx510.aspx http://www.verifone.com/countertop/vx510.aspx The last thing I want to do is to hand my $699 iPhone over to a customer, especially with a usb attachment or delicate accessory in it's headphone jack....
- yish 17y agoInteresting that all transactions show up as from squareup.com. This means that actual vendors are just virtual accounts and they could benefit from the economies of scale and can be provided those cost benefits that square up obtained. This most likely would be cheaper then any plan a small merchant would be able to get on their own. I wonder what the overhead is per transaction (usually a small fixed fee as well as a percentage of the overall transaction). Having worked with some small retail shops, you usually trade off either a higher per transaction cost with smaller percentage fees for large ticket price items or the other way around for quick-serve restaurants for instance.
- techiferous 17y agoI'm very impressed by the quality of the front page. Instantly I knew what the product was about. The style of the site is very professional. And the information at the bottom of the page is extremely well organized. I haven't seen a web site that communicates this effectively in a long time. Kudos to the front page designer!
- pegobry 17y agoTo me the biggest roadblock to widespread adoption is the fact that many small merchants want cash & not plastic, not because a card-reading device is expensive, or complicated, or what, but because cash is off the books.
- Henry74 17y agoI am in Philly and I am using XIPWIRE and so are all my friends to make transactions with our phones. AS far as I know none of us have had any trouble and the fees are super low.