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There's a market developing here within the "temperature controlled smart cooking" world, with the number of different engineering approaches growing rapidly.

There's a market developing here within the "temperature controlled smart cooking" world, with the number of different engineering approaches growing rapidly. Y Combinator alone has funded three companies in this space already! Pantelligent (YC W13) - $199 - https://www.pantelligent.com/ https://www.pantelligent.com/ - smart frying pan plus smartphone app. Recipes are smart software & give you instructions to adjust on the fly to provide perfect results every time. Works for any dish you can cook in a frying pan (steak, salmon, eggs, veggies, ...). Cinder (YC W15) - $499 - https://cindercooks.com/ https://cindercooks.com/ - electric grill style countertop appliance with smart recipes on smartphone. Nomiku (YC W15) - $249 / $199 pre-order - http://www.nomiku.com/ http://www.nomiku.com/ - sous-vide water bath immersion circulator June Oven - $2995 / $1495 pre-order - https://juneoven.com/ https://juneoven.com/ - countertop electric oven style Consumers have a wide range of options and that's pretty amazing, because fundamentally, the technology (temperature controlled cooking) works great and it's something I believe a lot of people are going to want to have in their home. It's like "process control 101" -- time and temperature -- finally made it to the kitchen. (Disclosure: I'm an engineer & co-founder of Pantelligent. Words can not convey just how delicious a Pantelligent-cooked salmon or steak is. Paul Graham said, "This pan made the best salmon I've ever cooked. In fact, better than I've had in almost any restaurant." If you're skeptical, check out some of our hands-on reviews; we were recently on NBC TODAY Show, CBS This Morning, and Popular Science's "Top 10 Inventions of 2015". And if you're still skeptical and live in the SF Bay Area, email visit @ pantelligent.com and we'll see if we can schedule a visit to our Sunnyvale warehouse so you can try it out for yourself!)

bryanlarsen 11y ago
You forgot Meld: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meld/meld-a-perfect-meal-every-time/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meld/meld-a-perfect-mea... ($129 pre-order) To me, it looks the most compelling because it's both the cheapest and most versatile. I backed both Pantelligent & Meld. But if Meld would have kickstarted first, I wouldn't have backed Pantelligent.
- compumike 11y ago
  Thanks for your support Bryan! Meld is certainly interesting; manufacturing is going to be a challenge for them with a lot of moving parts, but in any case, it may work for some soups/stews types of dishes, but it won't be compatible with most of Pantelligent recipes (asparagus, eggs, crepes, pancakes, bacon). And a Meld-style internal temperature probe alone would be significantly worse than Pantelligent for foods like steak and salmon; I know that at first glance it seems like internal temperature is the temperature to measure and optimize for, but you also have to control the external/surface temperature or else it's "unobservable" and will lead to either undercooked or overcooked meats! You can not simply do feedback around the internal temperature. (That's one of the key engineering insights of Pantelligent.)
  - michaelmior 11y ago
    I don't see how you can possibly just do feedback on the external temperature. How could you possibly guess if the meat is cooked through just based on the surface temperature? You really can't unless you make some assumptions on initial temperature and thickness at minimum.
    - vengroff 11y ago
      You are correct. Initial internal temperature and geometry of the food are key inputs. Once you know these, simulation is possible, but it takes some work. A few years ago I wrote an app called Sous Vide Dash that was initially targeted at professional level kitchens-and later white labeled by PolyScience, the leading provider of professional sous vide equipment. We did full thermodynamic simulation in that app, and modeled both temperature and pasteurization. To my knowledge it's still the only cooking app that has an embedded numerical solver for partial differential equations. In 2012 we won the StarChefs International Chefs Congress Innovator award for our work. Popping back to the top of the stack, it's a very exciting time for precision cooking. As one of the founders of Meld, I can tell you there is a lot more to come.
    - lifekaizen 11y ago
      This is one reason we chose the form factor that we did for Cinder, because we can automatically measure thickness. We found that's something rather hard for people to do, no one really wants to hold up raw meat to a ruler app on their phone, and yet is crucial to time estimation. Then we ask you what we don't know, so in the app you'd say: Chicken breast. We've also done some cool things to know when it's done, like how a rice cooker clicks off.
deleted 11y ago
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lambdaelite 11y ago
With the exception of the immersion circulator, I don't understand these devices. Can you help me understand? I'm an experienced cook, so (again, with the exception of the immersion circulator) I'm not in the target market for these devices. I'm having trouble understanding the target market though. I was thinking that it was for inexperienced people who want to cook at home. When I play that scenario through my head, it doesn't completely work. Take your salmon example: getting the pan to a good temperature and cooking the fish to the ideal temperature is not easy, so I can see how an inexperienced person could easily benefit from real-time temperature feedback. What I'm having trouble figuring out though, is that after gaining experience from cooking fish a few times, what's the benefit of the real-time temperature feedback? I guess the thing I'm wrestling with is that as one becomes more experienced, the value of these smart devices seems to rapidly diminish. I don't intend this to be negative or harsh, so I hope it doesn't come across that way. I'm genuinely interested in the thinking behind this smart device trend. Hope you can share.
- hipsterrific 11y ago
  What people want are results now. It took me a few tries to cook any fish well. Every once in a while I screw up and I chalk it to lessons learned. The first time I made scallops I was nervous but I knew my gas range and I knew my tools, so it came out perfect (with butter though I should have made herbed butter). The first time I made buttermilk fried chicken using my sous vide they came out tender and seasoned, granted it didn't look all that pretty. Cooking takes time. It takes practice. I think the novelty of these devices wear off once people realize that their steaks are perfectly medium rare but cheaped out or they don't know how to buy a good cut of meat. The novelty will go away when they practice cooking so much they rely less on technology and more on their own skill.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
  We watch cooks country sometimes. I frequently wonder how to change the recipe for our high altitude desert climate that differs from theirs. I'm never quite sure I've done it because the recipe's (especially volume based measurements) and descriptions are less precise than a smart gadget could be. I'm never quite sure the carbonara sauce is cooked or raw. This is why I'm interested, and perhaps part of the market. Cooking for me is about replicating conditions and duplicating an experiment.
hipsterrific 11y ago
I'm a software engineer and I took a total of two cooking courses and with lots of practice, I became a better cook. $1500 is essentially a weekend cooking class...twice. Learning to cook was by far the most challenging yet the most fun I've ever had. With the exception of the immersion circulator (I own a Polyscience one), none of these things really help. If you want to be a good cook, learn to cook. I never understood the need for "smart" devices when cooking is largely based on experience. Sure, this oven will help me cook medium rare steaks well, but will it taste good? I make medium rare steaks on a frying pan and I can make it consistently well. Cooking is practice, it doesn't require some expensive device.
- bliti 11y ago
  Big market out there for kitchen gadgets. Most of which don't really help that mucb, but are flashy. A kitchen full of gadgets is more of a vanity thing than anything else.
  - pbreit 11y ago
    I'm not sure I'd call a $3,000 counter over a "gadget".
    - bliti 11y ago
      I see no reason to not believe you. You should at least consider that others might differ. Those others might be a small niche big enough to be worth milions.
DiabloD3 11y ago
What is the coating of that pan? It looks like some non-stick thing, which I won't allow in my kitchen. Either cast iron (which this device would never survive my seasoning process), or 18/10 | 18/12 stainless steel. Also, love the intro video, has a nice punchline.
- gmac 11y ago
  It looks like some non-stick thing, which I won't allow in my kitchen. For reasons of style/principle, or because Teflon and aluminium are associated with possible health risks? I use a mix of steel and non-stick ceramic pans — the latter are much easier to wash up, and also work better for some foods.
  - DiabloD3 11y ago
    Because of the very real health risks, and the fact that generally, Teflon coated and aluminum cookware is of very low quality (no matter the price level, there's some really expensive Teflon stuff out there that is useless, clearly not made by someone who cooks). I won't use ceramics either as there is no guarantee they won't leech dangerous chemicals. The only thing I've seen that is suitable for long term use is cast iron, high carbon steel, and some 304 stainless steel variant (18/10, 18/12, etc). Its the only things we've been using for a decades on modern processes that are not known to leech anything dangerous (unless its extremely low grade Chinese stuff that isn't up to spec, which is easy to avoid).
anigbrowl 11y ago
Serious question: have you ever done any blind taste tests? I'm sure your device produces excellent results but I have my doubts about whether it provides any real advantage over someone who knows how to cook.
- jkestner 11y ago
  Not to say that a taste test wouldn't be interesting, but "someone who knows how to cook" is not something that everyone has access to. The intersection of that demographic and one wealthy enough to buy a new $3000 appliance, well, we'll see.
- lifekaizen 11y ago
  The key here is that precision, low-temperature cooking allows you to cook more tender and juicy food. Above 140F or so, proteins tend to seize up and drive moisture out. If you haven't tried this kind of cooking, I'd highly recommend seeking out a restaurant that uses sous-vide and trying some. It's so good that I co-founded a company (Cinder) to adopt it for home, mass use.
moby_click 11y ago
I attended a demo for Frima VarioCooking Center and have since been looking for a temperature-sensing pan for induction cookers (if that is possible). I understand why all those devices are marketed as "smart" but what I'd really like to see is dumb devices that are just sensors and actuators. I hope you also cater to hackers!
malandrew 11y ago
There is also Mellow, which I pre-ordered last year. I'm especially excited about using it to cook eggs with perfect soft yolks. https://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/ https://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/

bryanlarsen 11y ago

You forgot Meld: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meld/meld-a-perfect-meal-every-time/description https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meld/meld-a-perfect-mea... ($129 pre-order) To me, it looks the most compelling because it's both the cheapest and most versatile. I backed both Pantelligent & Meld. But if Meld would have kickstarted first, I wouldn't have backed Pantelligent.

compumike 11y ago
Thanks for your support Bryan! Meld is certainly interesting; manufacturing is going to be a challenge for them with a lot of moving parts, but in any case, it may work for some soups/stews types of dishes, but it won't be compatible with most of Pantelligent recipes (asparagus, eggs, crepes, pancakes, bacon). And a Meld-style internal temperature probe alone would be significantly worse than Pantelligent for foods like steak and salmon; I know that at first glance it seems like internal temperature is the temperature to measure and optimize for, but you also have to control the external/surface temperature or else it's "unobservable" and will lead to either undercooked or overcooked meats! You can not simply do feedback around the internal temperature. (That's one of the key engineering insights of Pantelligent.)
- michaelmior 11y ago
  I don't see how you can possibly just do feedback on the external temperature. How could you possibly guess if the meat is cooked through just based on the surface temperature? You really can't unless you make some assumptions on initial temperature and thickness at minimum.
  - vengroff 11y ago
    You are correct. Initial internal temperature and geometry of the food are key inputs. Once you know these, simulation is possible, but it takes some work. A few years ago I wrote an app called Sous Vide Dash that was initially targeted at professional level kitchens-and later white labeled by PolyScience, the leading provider of professional sous vide equipment. We did full thermodynamic simulation in that app, and modeled both temperature and pasteurization. To my knowledge it's still the only cooking app that has an embedded numerical solver for partial differential equations. In 2012 we won the StarChefs International Chefs Congress Innovator award for our work. Popping back to the top of the stack, it's a very exciting time for precision cooking. As one of the founders of Meld, I can tell you there is a lot more to come.
  - lifekaizen 11y ago
    This is one reason we chose the form factor that we did for Cinder, because we can automatically measure thickness. We found that's something rather hard for people to do, no one really wants to hold up raw meat to a ruler app on their phone, and yet is crucial to time estimation. Then we ask you what we don't know, so in the app you'd say: Chicken breast. We've also done some cool things to know when it's done, like how a rice cooker clicks off.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

lambdaelite 11y ago

With the exception of the immersion circulator, I don't understand these devices. Can you help me understand? I'm an experienced cook, so (again, with the exception of the immersion circulator) I'm not in the target market for these devices. I'm having trouble understanding the target market though. I was thinking that it was for inexperienced people who want to cook at home. When I play that scenario through my head, it doesn't completely work. Take your salmon example: getting the pan to a good temperature and cooking the fish to the ideal temperature is not easy, so I can see how an inexperienced person could easily benefit from real-time temperature feedback. What I'm having trouble figuring out though, is that after gaining experience from cooking fish a few times, what's the benefit of the real-time temperature feedback? I guess the thing I'm wrestling with is that as one becomes more experienced, the value of these smart devices seems to rapidly diminish. I don't intend this to be negative or harsh, so I hope it doesn't come across that way. I'm genuinely interested in the thinking behind this smart device trend. Hope you can share.

hipsterrific 11y ago
What people want are results now. It took me a few tries to cook any fish well. Every once in a while I screw up and I chalk it to lessons learned. The first time I made scallops I was nervous but I knew my gas range and I knew my tools, so it came out perfect (with butter though I should have made herbed butter). The first time I made buttermilk fried chicken using my sous vide they came out tender and seasoned, granted it didn't look all that pretty. Cooking takes time. It takes practice. I think the novelty of these devices wear off once people realize that their steaks are perfectly medium rare but cheaped out or they don't know how to buy a good cut of meat. The novelty will go away when they practice cooking so much they rely less on technology and more on their own skill.
0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
We watch cooks country sometimes. I frequently wonder how to change the recipe for our high altitude desert climate that differs from theirs. I'm never quite sure I've done it because the recipe's (especially volume based measurements) and descriptions are less precise than a smart gadget could be. I'm never quite sure the carbonara sauce is cooked or raw. This is why I'm interested, and perhaps part of the market. Cooking for me is about replicating conditions and duplicating an experiment.

hipsterrific 11y ago

I'm a software engineer and I took a total of two cooking courses and with lots of practice, I became a better cook. $1500 is essentially a weekend cooking class...twice. Learning to cook was by far the most challenging yet the most fun I've ever had. With the exception of the immersion circulator (I own a Polyscience one), none of these things really help. If you want to be a good cook, learn to cook. I never understood the need for "smart" devices when cooking is largely based on experience. Sure, this oven will help me cook medium rare steaks well, but will it taste good? I make medium rare steaks on a frying pan and I can make it consistently well. Cooking is practice, it doesn't require some expensive device.

bliti 11y ago
Big market out there for kitchen gadgets. Most of which don't really help that mucb, but are flashy. A kitchen full of gadgets is more of a vanity thing than anything else.
- pbreit 11y ago
  I'm not sure I'd call a $3,000 counter over a "gadget".
  - bliti 11y ago
    I see no reason to not believe you. You should at least consider that others might differ. Those others might be a small niche big enough to be worth milions.

DiabloD3 11y ago

What is the coating of that pan? It looks like some non-stick thing, which I won't allow in my kitchen. Either cast iron (which this device would never survive my seasoning process), or 18/10 | 18/12 stainless steel. Also, love the intro video, has a nice punchline.

gmac 11y ago
It looks like some non-stick thing, which I won't allow in my kitchen. For reasons of style/principle, or because Teflon and aluminium are associated with possible health risks? I use a mix of steel and non-stick ceramic pans — the latter are much easier to wash up, and also work better for some foods.
- DiabloD3 11y ago
  Because of the very real health risks, and the fact that generally, Teflon coated and aluminum cookware is of very low quality (no matter the price level, there's some really expensive Teflon stuff out there that is useless, clearly not made by someone who cooks). I won't use ceramics either as there is no guarantee they won't leech dangerous chemicals. The only thing I've seen that is suitable for long term use is cast iron, high carbon steel, and some 304 stainless steel variant (18/10, 18/12, etc). Its the only things we've been using for a decades on modern processes that are not known to leech anything dangerous (unless its extremely low grade Chinese stuff that isn't up to spec, which is easy to avoid).

anigbrowl 11y ago

Serious question: have you ever done any blind taste tests? I'm sure your device produces excellent results but I have my doubts about whether it provides any real advantage over someone who knows how to cook.

jkestner 11y ago
Not to say that a taste test wouldn't be interesting, but "someone who knows how to cook" is not something that everyone has access to. The intersection of that demographic and one wealthy enough to buy a new $3000 appliance, well, we'll see.
lifekaizen 11y ago
The key here is that precision, low-temperature cooking allows you to cook more tender and juicy food. Above 140F or so, proteins tend to seize up and drive moisture out. If you haven't tried this kind of cooking, I'd highly recommend seeking out a restaurant that uses sous-vide and trying some. It's so good that I co-founded a company (Cinder) to adopt it for home, mass use.

moby_click 11y ago

I attended a demo for Frima VarioCooking Center and have since been looking for a temperature-sensing pan for induction cookers (if that is possible). I understand why all those devices are marketed as "smart" but what I'd really like to see is dumb devices that are just sensors and actuators. I hope you also cater to hackers!

malandrew 11y ago

There is also Mellow, which I pre-ordered last year. I'm especially excited about using it to cook eggs with perfect soft yolks. https://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/ https://cookmellow.com/meet-mellow/