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Steam Hardware pre-order
- ekianjo 11y agoGood thing Syber dropped their AMD GPU line of Steam Machines. Seeing the state of AMD drivers on Linux...
- SwellJoe 11y agoThings are pretty bad on the proprietary front, in the sense that they can't even be installed on a modern kernel at the moment (Fedora 21 has too new of a kernel to use AMD proprietary drivers, for example, and I haven't even tried with Fedora 22). But, the Open Source drivers for AMD is actually seemingly in a better state than the nVidia Open Source drivers. According to benchmarks I've seen they perform at a little better than half the speed of the proprietary drivers. For me, this means I can actually play 3D games like Rust at 1080P with reasonable, but not impressive, frame rates on my R290 card running under Linux, without having to install the proprietary drivers. That's a surprising and pleasant state of affairs. Admittedly, the R290 is ridiculously huge and I should be able to do more than barely play games at 1080P at a decent frame rate. But, it may be the first time getting a 3D game running was as easy as "install OS, install Steam, install game, start game, play". Also, I love that games are being ported to Linux at the fastest pace in history because of Steam machines. I play and buy a lot more games because of it.
- BadassFractal 11y agoIs there any reason why NVIDIA/AMD wouldn't want to go the open source route with their drivers? Is there some kind of a special sauce in there that they need to treasure? Aren't they in the business of selling hardware, or is there something really special about those drivers?
- ekianjo 11y agoYes, there is. Like nVidia making sure that you don't know that the chip they use is actually the same as in a more expensive card, but controlled to act as a lower performance chip through the drivers.
- BadassFractal 11y agoWell, that's sad. So they basically have every incentive for there not to exist decent Linux drivers until the demand is large enough that they have to do a great job at supporting the platform?
- ekianjo 11y agoI mean, as long as they make decent proprietary Linux drivers (which is what they are doing right now), I would not complain too much. They have been catching up in terms of features as well (compared to Windows drivers), so they are very active compared to the sleeping engineers from AMD (who like making announcements but do very little visible work, which renders their credibility close to zero).
- tadfisher 11y ago> sleeping engineers from AMD http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2015-June/084083.html http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2015-June/08...
- rangibaby 11y agoIsn't that because of binning?
- pandaman 11y agoFor once, OpenGL/DirectX drivers contain a shader compiler since the compiled form of shader in these APIs is in IL bytecode and it has to be compiled into the actual ISA code to be able to run on the processors inside the GPU. Such a compiler is pretty complex piece of software and even if it did not have licensed code opening it would expose you to all kinds of patent trolls. Also, the DirectX drivers (and likely OpenGl as well) contain special code paths for many games/apps to improve performance. When they are telling you to download the latest drivers for your new PC game it's not because the new drivers fixed bugs and the game won't run (though it's also the case sometimes), it's because the new drivers have an optimized code path for that game. Developing these code paths costs money and giving them away for free may save money for the competition since the hardware is pretty similar and most of these optimizations are selecting the best hardware representation for an API entity.
- ekianjo 11y agoI was obviously referring to proprietary drivers, because anyone serious about gaming with AMD (at least for recent games, older ones can run fine on FOSS ones) will have to use proprietary ones. Note that Mesa is still limited to 3.3 OpenGL support and FOSS drivers do not go over that limitation yet either (hence there are less and less modern games using OpenGL 4.x that will run on FOSS drivers).
- madez 11y agoI'm playing modern titles and use only the free radeonsi drivers. The "serious games" I tried work just fine.
- ekianjo 11y ago> Also, I love that games are being ported to Linux at the fastest pace in history because of Steam machines. I play and buy a lot more games because of it. Certainly, but if Steam Machines fail to pick up steam (hehe) that could be a very short lived phenomenon. Especially for AAA games.
- SwellJoe 11y agoThe infrastructure for it has been built, too, which makes a big difference. As I understand it, making any Valve Source Engine game available on Linux is now relatively trivial. Likewise, OpenGL got a big boost from Valve committing to developing for Linux. So, many games that weren't explicitly developed for Linux have had reasonable ports made available, and it's cost game makers less than ever before to do so. I was ecstatic to see Civ V available for Linux, for example, since Civ (and other Sid Meier games) has never had a Linux port in the past. As I said, I buy a lot more games than I used to...but only games with Linux versions. I chose Rust over Day Z, for example, when choosing a survival game to buy and play. Will there be enough people who make the same sorts of decisions to continue to make it profitable for makers to keep making Linux versions? I dunno, but I hope so.
- lmm 11y agoI think the open source drivers for AMD are better because the binary ones are terrible. Whereas in nVidia-land the official drivers are very good, you install them and they work, so fewer people are motivated to work on the open-source drivers.
- bryanlarsen 11y agoThe fact that AMD has released specifications and actually pays people to work on the open source drivers probably has more to do with it.
- simplexion 11y agoI wonder whether this controller will have any affect on how the next console controllers will behave.
- kibwen 11y agoIf nothing else, I hope they follow the Steam controller's lead of putting the secondary triggers on the rear of the grips rather than trying to shove a second set of trigger buttons up on the shoulders. This has been a literal pain point with mainstream controllers for years, which I have never been able to hold comfortably while maintaining a finger on each of the four trigger buttons.
- jon-wood 11y agoI've never played a game which required both triggers on the same side to be simultaneously pressed - they're designed to be used with a finger on the primary trigger which can be moved to the secondary one when needed.
- just_observing 11y agoSSX Tricky does require this for certain tricks and I'm pretty sure others in the series do also. http://www.merqurycity.com/ssx_forum/knowledge/kb_show.php?id=62 http://www.merqurycity.com/ssx_forum/knowledge/kb_show.php?i...
- loup-vaillant 11y agoThat's because the game adapted themselves to the controllers. Moving that pesky secondary trigger will open up new possibilities, and games will likely take advantage of that.
- axcocq 11y agoThe controller is one of the few things I would buy from Valve( I'm assuming it works stand-alone on a PC )[edit]. Unfortunately I can't even consider buying their games or operating system due to the built-in DRM and/or forcing Steam usage. [edit]:It requires "Big Picture Mode", which in turn requires Steam to be installed. Sigh...
- madez 11y agoI'm pretty sure it will also work without Steam, though you'd need other software to configure it.
- yoklov 11y agoNot sure. We have an early version of one where I work (game dev), and to my knowledge it requires the steam DLL, and doesn't expose XInput/DirectInput bindings (I wasn't the one who added support for it, so this could be a lie, and it could have changed by now).
- pfranz 11y agoI wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to Wacom tablets. Wacom tablets out of the box you get a generic pointing device (a mouse input). If you want the touch/tilt sensitivity you need to install their drivers. This was on Linux years ago, so my memory could be wrong or things might have changed. It actually makes it a bit confusing because you can't tell if you're getting a pointing device or a pressure sensitive output easily.
- ryan-allen 11y agoSteam ain't that bad. It's better than buying titles for consoles. DRM is usually forced on you by 3rd parties, as far as I know Valve titles don't ship with DRM, but you do need to use Steam to take delivery of the game. It's a small price to pay, and a huge convenience.
- axcocq 11y ago
- danso 11y agoOK, I put down for the pre-order of the Steam controller. And am now remembering what a bad idea it is to be an early adopter. No offense to Valve but I'll be very surprised if they can succeed in a way -- and at a lower price point -- that much more experienced controller-makers have not been able to after decades of iteration. I just hope it's more compatible with my Mac than a jury-rigged XBOX360 controller is.
- curiously 11y agorecoup your investment by making a video review...and pray that it hits 500,000 views or more.
- Mahn 11y ago> that much more experienced controller-makers have not been able to after decades of iteration Decades of iteration and yet the Xbox 360/PS4 controller is pretty much the same as the original DualShock PlayStation controller from 18 years ago. "Experienced" controller-makers aren't doing shit to improve existing gamepads, they just go with the idea that gamepads are a done job. I don't know if Valve's controller will suceeded, but at least they are trying something.
- Robadob 11y agoIf your having a problem with buyers remorse. You can claim a refund until it's despatched, steam recently implemented a new refund policy (http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds). From the store page of the controller; >If you preorder a hardware product, Valve will charge the amount corresponding to your preorder immediately without waiting until the shipping date. You will receive a full refund if you cancel your order at any point before the shipping date.
- eeho 11y agoThis might be an easy and cheap option (I'm assuming you can dual boot these with Windows) to have a PC to go with an Oculus Rift. I'm a Mac user and don't really want to buy or build a gaming rig just for VR. This is an interesting option that seems to meet the Oculus recommended specs.
- cwyers 11y agoEasy, maybe. Cheap, no. You're paying for the brand, the flashy case and parts that fit a smaller form factor (the Alienware machines are using laptop GPUs instead of desktop ones, I am not sure they would support Oculus at all). Cheaper just to assemble it or buy a gaming PC that isn't constrained to the HTPC form-factor.
- tracker1 11y agoNot to mention the streaming device gives you the option to run the actual PC in another room, where the noise won't be so much of an issue.
- TheEnder8 11y agoI don't think any of these meet the minimum Oculus specs. You need a GTX 970 which costs like 75% of the entry model
- TillE 11y agoSyber's "Steam Machine X" is the only one which meets (or rather, exceeds) the Oculus Rift recommended specs. The critical component is the GPU, and Oculus recommends a GTX 970. This one has a 980. At $1419 it's quite fairly priced for the components it includes (just check logicalincrements.com), but I wouldn't really call that cheap.
- mkozlows 11y agoThe Syber machines are configurable, though, so you can grab the midrange one and upgrade it to a 970 for a few hundred dollars.
- cwyers 11y agoThe low-end Alienware box has specs that don't meet the minimum requirements for Batman Arkham Knight, one of the few AAA titles coming out this year that supports SteamOS. And it costs more than either the Xbox One or Playstation 4, both of which will run Arkham Knight fine. I think Steam Machines are a failure waiting to happen. PC enthusiasts can get a Steam Link for $50 for most of the benefits of this. And people who aren't PC enthusiasts have no reason to buy these over a console.
- shurcooL 11y agoConsoles don't support Oculus Rift though. It might be great to satisfy that need while being lower maintenance than a normal PC.
- mkozlows 11y agoOculus doesn't support SteamOS, either -- non-Windows versions are "on hold." But there's Valve/HTC's VR stuff, still.
- shurcooL 11y agoOh crap, you're right. I forgot about that.
- cwyers 11y agoThe Rift demands a pretty hefty graphics card, and most of these don't have one. Alienware is shipping laptop GPUs in their Steam Machines, and Oculus is particular about how the GPU is connected to the output port: https://www.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/ https://www.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/ I would not buy any of these and expect them to work well with the Oculus Rift.
- greggman 11y agoConsoles do support Morpheus though
- 11y ago
- TheEnder8 11y agoI really wish there were standard models so game developers could optimize the settings. These are just low-end PCs that manage to cost more than a PS4 or an Xbox One.
- jotux 11y agoHas anyone used the new controller and compared it to the original that came with the first steamboxes? I had a friend win the steambox lottery and I tried the original steam controller -- I found it simply awful.
- johladam 11y agoI was hoping to see some updated information on the HTC Re Vive, though I'm not seeing it on the page, especially since it's expected to release sometime in November. However, I am significantly more worried about the performance problems that may exist with the Vive, particularly with its twin high-resolution displays. My 970 already has a hard enough time pushing new games at 60 fps on High or Ultra, I can't imagine it pushing twice the pixels without seeing significant performance problems...
- NamTaf 11y agoIs pre-order US-only? I only see 'coming soon' here in AU.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ekianjo 11y agoIt's not "their" hardware. They don't design any of it.
- blackobelisk 11y agothey designed the controller, but yeah he's probably talking about the steam machines.
- ekianjo 11y agoIt's not "their" hardware. They don't design any of it (Steam Machines) and the controller and Steam Link are simple enough to make that I don't think they can be that much of a failure.
- mkramlich 11y agopre-order = I give you money, you give me nothing (but, hypothetical promises about a future) gotta love cool new business models
- gambiting 11y agoWhat new business models? You could pre-order new car models for decades, a company would announce that new model X is going to be available in 6 months, but you could order one now to make sure you get it on the release day. In such case, you also didn't have the luxury of reading any reviews but you were buying an unreleased product.
- jfoster 11y agoPre-orders without an eventual delivery are fraud. Ignoring the time value of money, when you pre-order you typically pay the same amount as you would if you waited until the product was available. What you gain is getting the product earlier than others, and what you lose is the access to reviews prior to making your purchase decision. Pre-orders are not a new business model. They pre-date the general availability of the internet.
- bryanlarsen 11y agoYou get the ability to make all of your friends jealous because you have the hot new X a month or so before they can buy it. It's much more likely you have an overhyped dud a year late but one month before anybody else can buy it. If the game you're playing is to one-up your friends, it's a price worth paying.
- wodenokoto 11y agoSo I'm not even going to sugar coat this. How well can I use the steam controller for my N64 emulator? I'm having trouble getting a good D and C-pad as well as analogue stick on the normal playstation type USB controllors and am looking for something else.
- icebraining 11y agoGet an arduino, and you can use a real N64 pad. Someone already did the code, it's just a matter of plugging the wires.
- matthew-wegner 11y ago$15 for an N64-to-USB converter: http://www.amazon.com/May-Flash-Controller-Adapter-Nintendo-64/dp/B002B9FIUU/ http://www.amazon.com/May-Flash-Controller-Adapter-Nintendo-...
- mercer 11y agoWhy not get an N64 controller and a USB connector: http://mattgemmell.com/playing-nintendo-games-on-a-mac/ http://mattgemmell.com/playing-nintendo-games-on-a-mac/ I bought the GC/XB360/PS connector and the SNES connector, and it's been a blast playing games with them! For the SNES games I even got two controllers so I can play Bust-a-Move and whatnot with friends.
- wodenokoto 11y agoI don't want too many controllers lying around and I also want to play other types of games. But maybe I should get just one N64 :)
- gcb0 11y agoPC games with a joypad that does not have a keyboard. that is lame. extremely lame. Almost as lame as the fact that the xbox controllers when attached to windows box also do not recognize the keyboard attachment. Valve copying microsoft mistakes.
- awalton 11y ago"No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." Sounds about right. Most of the games you buy for the PC these days are console ports anyways; they were literally designed to be used with controllers, they just slapped on a keyboard-and-mouse control scheme at the end (or after the original game shipped, in many cases.) And, since it's just a specialized PC, you can just plug a keyboard and mouse in instead. Really, they just copied Microsoft's XBox playbook, with the modification that they're less blatantly lying about the fact that modern consoles are just more expensively designed and worse performing PCs with game controllers.
- Steko 11y agoThat controller really better be awesome because the thing is two years behind the PS/Xbox and will arrive two months after Apple's new TV makes it's bid for console killing.
- baljitsingh 11y ago4t
- hitlin37 11y agosince most GPUs in these box are from nvidia, shouldn't nvidia be making its own steam box?
- pjmlp 11y agoIt is called Shield. http://shield.nvidia.com/ http://shield.nvidia.com/ https://developer.nvidia.com/develop4shield https://developer.nvidia.com/develop4shield That is where they see business value, not on SteamOS.
- TorKlingberg 11y agoThe Shield is Android rather than SteamOS. It has an integrated ARM+GPU Tegra X1 SoC rather than separate CPU and GPU. They are both competing with consoles though.
- pjmlp 11y agoHence my remark about where NVIDIA sees business value.
- emsy 11y agoStrange that nobody else mentioned this before, but I'm really glad that the Steam machines are getting away from those big ugly gaming towers and look more console like. This was one of the main reasons I am (or was) a console player, because PCs waste a lot of space and look ugly as hell. I'm usually not that sensitive to the look of my devices, but a PC tower is just extraordinarily ugly. I'm curious what others think about this.
- ohitsdom 11y agoThis is a non factor in my decision making. I want to play games on the most advanced/compelling platform. If the device is ugly, it doesn't matter to me because there are many ways I can hide it or disguise it.
- javipas 11y agoIt's ironic that this effort is trying to get gamers to buy Steam Machines when gamers already have machines far more powerful than the ones launched. Valve will have a big problem if they want to convince traditional console gamers. Which are the benefits for them if the cost is bigger? It seems TCO is good on Steam Machines on the long run but that's a tough argument for people that want instant gratification. Steam Link seems the way to go for most HN readers, I guess, and that is the device I would buy if I had to choose. BTW, a question on this: I've read somewhere that although NVIDIA Shield works only with NVIDIA GPUs, the Steam Link will work also with AMD GPUs. Valve doesn't confirm this but says that it supports OS X, Linux and Windows PCs. Any ideas? Doesn't it run on NVIDIA's GameStream, like NV Shield does?
- fpgaminer 11y agoSteam Link uses Steam In-Home Streaming, which is a different technology than nVidia's GameStream. Steam Streaming will even use the CPU for video encoding/decoding, so it isn't necessarily dependent on your GPU. Though, for best performance you will of course want hardware encoding. I do not know which GPU's Steam supports hardware encoding on. A quick Google and browse through Steam's FAQ on this topic indicates that they at least support nVidia GPUs and Intel GPUs for hardware encoding; no mention of AMD. But again, Steam will happily use your CPU to do the work if it has to.
- vlunkr 11y agoWell they must be confident that this stuff it actually going to get released soonish. It's nice to see after all the delays with the controller.
- jokoon 11y agoI really think this could be a huge game changer for the gaming industry. It might take a while to pick up, but I don't see why it would not work. The problem of drivers will easily solve itself. If valve can negociate will AMD or nVidia, I don't see why drivers would not improve. It might take time, and at first it might not be a frank success, but I'm pretty confident that PC enthusiasts are already a good target, and I'm sure many PC gamers will buy it so there's no reason it's dead in the water. There are many good markers. If I was into the stock market I might try to invest in this. Steam already holds a pretty big market share, so to me they got enough steam (pun intended) to negociate and tuck their way in. The only issue is that they're not mainstream, they might lack advertising and they might not have a chance to be success with kids and teens. But the hardcore gamer community is pretty big already, so why not ? I'm sure developers will love it, and it might even allow so many more indies to make a buck.