13 ms·

Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

214 points by rbii 11y ago

jacobolus 11y ago
The linked site seems to be completely toast, but here are some secondary sources which I’d guess have approximately the same content: http://www.cnet.com/news/thunderbolt-3-and-usb-type-c-join-forces-for-one-port-to-rule-them-all/ http://www.cnet.com/news/thunderbolt-3-and-usb-type-c-join-f... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2929798/thunderbolt-3-to-work-over-usb-c.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2929798/thunderbolt-3-to-work... http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-computex-2015 http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c...
hjnilsson 11y ago
And finally, the future has arrived. If the iPhone 7 (doubt the 6S) sports USB-C as well, there will be a truly universal connector. Imagine screens, laptops, TVs, phones, mp3 players, docks, hard drives and toasters all using the same plug (well, maybe not the last one). There will be a painful time of transition until we are there, but hopefully it will be the last one. (Conveniently this also saves Apple on the new MPBs, they can now have both USB A and USB C ports without it being weird)
- easytiger 11y ago
  They will find a way to ruin it. Don't worry
- imaginenore 11y ago
  Apple using a standard connector, dream on.
  - melling 11y ago
    Apple led the way with the original USB in the late 90's. PC companies and users dragged their feet. "We don't like change." It took almost 5 years to gain traction. A couple months ago on HN I asked about PC's getting the new USB C connector and no one seemed in a hurry. It won't be a standard until PC's ship with at least one port.
    - lloeki 11y ago
      > It won't be a standard until PC's ship with at least one port. Phones (and tablets) getting a Type-C port may very well coerce the PC market into faster adoption.
    - josefresco 11y ago
      Apple wasn't even involved in the creation of the USB spec. Every major PC manufacturer was, and had committed to the spec already. Apple did "lead the way' by shipping a computer with no legacy ports, but the PC industry hardly "dragged their feet". It takes years to churn so many PCs with (legacy ports) which dominated the market.
  - jacobolus 11y ago
    > Apple using a standard connector, dream on. Apple is clearly pushing heavily behind the scenes in both the USB-IF and with Intel/Thunderbolt to drive USB Type C ports. Reportedly their engineers did much of the work designing the port. Looking at their one-port Macbook, they’re obviously heavily invested in USB Type C’s success. I assume every future Mac is going to be mostly USB Type C ports. Can you clarify what you mean with your comment? I’m guessing iPhones will stick with Lightning on one end for at least the near future though.
    - genericuser 11y ago
      I just want to thank you for qualifying your description of Apple's contribution to USB-C in a correct manner, as opposed to perpetuating the myth that Apple invented USB-C. It's initial conception having come out of the USB 3.1 development by AMD, HP, Intel, and Microsoft. It is refreshing to see someone not spreading the revisionist history that has been popular on this subject.
      - jacobolus 11y ago
        My external non-expert impression (which could be totally off-base; I don’t have inside sources) is that folks making devices like phones and tablets were jealous of the reversibility, faster battery charging, and size advantage Apple could obtain with Lightning jacks, compared to the ridiculous extended USB 3.1 Micro-B jack, and started clamoring for a better connector sometime in ~2012. Once Apple realized such a new connector would be coming with or without them, they decided to throw their weight behind it and make sure that the connector met all of their own needs. Apple certainly isn’t the only party (or even the main party) responsible for the new connector, but from what I’ve read they do deserve some applause for putting their resources in and making sure the new connector is the best it can be.
        genericuser 11y ago
        That all agrees with how I understand the situation as a fellow external non-expert. I just got really frustrated a while back by all the 'Apple invented USB-C' and even the 'Apple basically invented USB-C' headlines. So wanted to applaud someone for choosing the phrasing 'much of the work' which I believe to be a correct statement, and if incorrect only errors slightly on the side of too much credit.
  - Osmium 11y ago
    Apple replaced its proprietary MagSafe with USB-C for the latest MacBook, so there's precedent. (Aside: but I wonder if magnetic connectors are even appropriate for a cable that can transmit data as well as power. With MagSafe, if the cable was disconnected, the laptop battery would take over and you'd be fine, but with thew new MacBook you'd potentially have data loss if you had a hard drive daisy-chained in. So perhaps that's a factor in why they got rid of magnetic connectors?)
- jacobolus 11y ago
  > they can now have both USB A and USB C ports without it being weird I’m expecting them to kill off USB type A ports entirely on future laptops. We’ll see what happens to Magsafe, HDMI, and SD card slots. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see a Macbook Pro with 4–6 USB type C (Thunderbolt 3) ports, a headphone jack, and nothing else. > Imagine screens, laptops, TVs, phones, mp3 players, docks, hard drives and toasters all using the same plug (well, maybe not the last one) I don’t think toasters are a good fit, but USB Type C with its 100W DC could be great for powering other small appliances (LED desk lamps, small fans, printers, scanners, video cameras, small TVs, routers, modems, electric toothbrushes, ...), if USB Type C starts showing up in outlets in homes/cars/airplanes/airports/classrooms/...
  - smhenderson 11y ago
    I could even see them ditching the head phone jack eventually. I can't imagine it will be long before someone starts making USB C headphones.
    - adlpz 11y ago
      I hope they don't do that, I don't want to go around with a DAC hanging off my headphones. And making them more expensive.
      - lsaferite 11y ago
        It wouldn't need a DAC, just a special plug. Type-C connectors support an analog audio mode.
        adlpz 11y ago
        Nice, I wasn't aware Type-C could route anything analog besides power. I assumed it just piped digital serial protocols.
    - Nullabillity 11y ago
      Well, considering that USB A headsets are already pretty common...
- kcorbitt 11y ago
  On the balance, having one connector and hand-waving everything else as "it's all software" is probably better than the bewildering combination of ports and protocols we have now. But it will come with its own new and interesting issues as well. For example, when can/can't you plug your USB-C webcam into your USB-C monitor and expect your computer to detect it? If I plug my USB-C toaster into a USB-C computer, will it power up? Does a USB-C hub (like the ones we use with USB-A when you don't have enough ports) necessarily support every possible protocol, or can you only plug a subset of computer peripherals into it? Will all USB-C cables have the amperage ratings to safely power my laptop from the wall, or will there have to be different cable types for different uses?
  - gutnor 11y ago
    That's already the case with USB ( and to some extend Bluetooth and NFC ) What do you get when you plug you USB phone in your USB computer ? What about the tablet ? Why can I read files from my phone via USB but my phone can't read file from my USB HDD ? Why is my Bluetooth headphone mono with the computer, but stereo with the phone. Why can's my NFC yubikey work with my NFC phone. Right now, people mostly ignore it because there is generally broad support in devices provided by manageable number of generic protocols. So you mostly only have to care about the few cases when stuff don't work rather than thinking what works. There is no reason to be overly pessimistic about USB-C, it is an incremental improvement over technologies already suffering from the same issue.
    - izacus 11y ago
      I was hoping the USB-C would actually fix this issue - after all, USB was mostly universally compatible for vast majority of devices and I think people started to expect that if you can plug it in, it works.
- lucaspiller 11y ago
  > Imagine screens, laptops, TVs I have no doubts they will continue to have VGA ports until 2025...
  - organsnyder 11y ago
    Intel's upcoming Skylake architecture is rumored to not support VGA. That might speed along its demise somewhat. I actually use the VGA port on my ThinkPad somewhat regularly—it's still the most common display connector in many offices. However, I do carry dongles for HDMI and DVI (adapting from the built-in DisplayPort) just in case. I'm looking forward to having USB-C replace all of them.
- malchow 11y ago
  Any theories on when TVs will use USB-C over HDMI?
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  > there will be a truly universal connector Well, the connector will have a universal shape. But the cables won't work universally (you need special ones for high-speed Thunderbolt), and two things sharing a connector won't mean they'll work together due to different protocols (USB 3, DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, others).
berberous 11y ago
Can someone explain whether I should care that they are still using DP 1.2 rather than 1.3? I had thought 1.3 was needed for non stitched 4k 60hz, but this should have plenty of bandwidth, so I'm now not sure what the issue with 1.2 vs 1.3 is.
- seanalltogether 11y ago
  I was disappointed in the lack of 1.2a, having access to adaptive sync would be a nice feature for gaming.
- alcidesfonseca 11y ago
  Displayport daisy-chaining for screens above 1980x1080p requires 1.3. (Using two daisy-chained dell screen's on my 2011 macbook air does not work because it requires 1.3 and mba only supports 1.2.
- lvh 11y ago
  The article claims dual 4k @ 60Hz over 1 cable; so that seems to rule out stitching? That, or it's an awful lot of DP1.2 channels + stitching, which I didn't know worked with multiple physical heads.
- zaphoyd 11y ago
  It appears that this cable has 8 lanes of DP 1.2 connectivity. 4 DP 1.2 lanes is enough for a non-tiled 4K 60hz display. So TB3 can supply enough bandwidth for two of them. A 5K 60Hz display requires either DP1.3's higher bandwidth lanes or more than 4 DP1.2 lanes teamed in a tiled arrangement. TB3 with DP1.2 will be able to handle single tile 4K displays or double tiled 5K. It will not be able to handle single tile 5K or the other features of DP1.3 (high refresh rate/8K/alternate bit depths)
Already__Taken 11y ago
Seems to be trading all our different ports with the problem of having all levels of different cables? This port is going to be very expensive for the manufactures. If it does everything I'm going to need a bunch. Does anything stop OEMs making a row of identical ports that only 1 charges my laptop, only a couple take can use the fastest cable and I'm sure all sorts of potential shenanigans,
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Is there any word on whether the cables will be different? I suspect the cables will match, but the protocols the port support will be determined by the controller chipset.
  - Already__Taken 11y ago
    I can't see how the cables will look much different between each other but even so they will all fit the same connector. There's already planned the 20gbps copper, 40gbps active copper and optical. What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives through.
    - ZenoArrow 11y ago
      > What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives though. This has nothing to do with this Thunderbolt announcement, the situation would be the same even if only USB 3.1 was supported. However, the solutions are the same as ever: 1. Don't use charge only cables, buy cables that support charging and data. They're normally affordable. 2. Keep the charge only cable plugged in to your power source. 3. Mark the charge only cables with a sticker. As for the Thunderbolt 3 announcement, it looks like there are three proposed cables, and it looks very likely that the passive and active versions will support both USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3. Perhaps the light based ones won't, but they'll be niche at first, unless Thunderbolt 3 takes off rapidly.
    - lsaferite 11y ago
      USB-PD can check the cable to see what it's capabilities are so it won't push too much current over the wrong type of cable. I imagine any scheme to use TB3 over a Type-C connector will be able of checking the cable as well.
izacus 11y ago
Hmm, I don't understand the description fully - does that mean that it can happen that I can get a device with USB-C plug, plug it into computer and it won't work because the device uses Thunderbolt 3 and the computer isn't an Apple? Or will all Thunderbolt 3 devices be able to scale back and communicate with devices over USB if the controller is not available? How will that work with displays over USB-C connectors? Is there a possibility that now instead of just checking for a USB port, we'll have to read the list of controllers/protocols available in devices connecting over USB-C ports?
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  USB Type C provides a standardized protocol for protocol negotiation. I assume that Thunderbolt uses that. It's already used in Type C to enable plugging in USB, chargers (PD spec), HDMI or DP adapters (https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dingdong https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dingdong) and I think even to route PCIe over Type C. Adding Thunderbolt to the mix shouldn't be too hard.
  - jordanthoms 11y ago
    I think the issue is, that if you have a thunderbolt over USB-C display, and plug it into a normal USB-C port on your laptop (say the latest macbook), it won't work, since the laptop doesn't support the thunderbolt signaling. So it's a new point of confusion - USB devices which are physically compatible but not electrically. It's something that could possibly be solved through the markings on the devices etc and I still think doing thunderbolt over the USB-C port is great. Perhaps the display example could fall back to supporting a display-over-usb standard, it won't work as well but could help.
    - pgeorgi 11y ago
      I'd hope they gave up on their own DP signalling and just use the type C one.
    - cmsj 11y ago
      I don't think we have enough detail about Thunderbolt 3 yet to know whether devices will be able to detect that they are connected to a USB port and not a Thunderbolt port. If they can detect that, they may well be able to choose to degrade. It seems like an ideal way for Apple to be able to ship a display which can be connected to both thunderbolt and USB-C hosts, without the user having to care. Obviously some Thunderbolt devices (e.g. PCI-E chassis) wouldn't reasonably be able to degrade to USB, but a good proportion of them, would. I very much hope this is what is going to happen!
out_of_protocol 11y ago
One port to rule em all
- lectrick 11y ago
  One port to find them
  - WildUtah 11y ago
    One port to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
- the8472 11y ago
  Considering the DMA vulnerabilities of thunderbolt, that's not too far off. At least until we have some sort of IOMMU-based hotplug device firewalls in our operating systems.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    USB 3.0 has DMA too.
    - the8472 11y ago
      But is that remote DMA? Controller/driver-managed DMA transfers in the fashion of "shovel the next X incoming kilobytes to this memory range" is not the same as arbitrary writes to host memory initiated by a device.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        Ah, maybe it isn't, fair point.
    - rasz_pl 11y ago
      On USB only Host is allowed to be a bus master. Thunderbold does PCI/PCIe and by extension allows any plugged gizmo to take over whole computer.
donatj 11y ago
When Thunderbolt was first released it caused a lot of confusion in my office for people with DisplayPort who couldn't hook up to Thunderbolt monitors, bought for them by our IT group that really didn't understand the difference. I see this problem coming on strong AGAIN with this. This port is just USB-C while this other port is USB-C and Thunderbolt... That sounds like a load of confusion waiting to happen.
- orbitur 11y ago
  I think the Apple TB Display is comparable here. If you have a rare TB device, you're probably a professional, and yes, you'll need to ensure the TB logo is on the port. If it's an extremely common USB device, it'll work on any port, without exception. The Apple Thunderbolt monitors are Apple's fault. There was no reason they couldn't have accepted a raw DisplayPort signal, but they still didn't.
  - kjjw 11y ago
    Confused. I have an Apple TB display and plug it into a ThinkPad mini DisplayPort port. Works fine.
    - outworlder 11y ago
      It really doesn't work - I really really wish it did. Your ThinkPad has a Thunderbolt port (which doubles as a DisplayPort).
    - donatj 11y ago
      Either your ThinkPad has Thunderbolt as was suggested, or you have a DisplayPort Cinema Display.
  - cmsj 11y ago
    FWIW, one reason would be that they'd needed to have somehow worked a USB connection into the mix, for pure DisplayPort ports, otherwise you have no way to control the brightness, use the camera, or the audio output.
awalton 11y ago
Ugh Intel. We just fixed the USB problem of "I can't figure out which way to plug this thing in", why do you have to go and add the complication of "Wait, is this a Thunderbolt or USB C device/port?" This is why we can't have nice things.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Not really. This is a smart move. Why can't the hardware can't support both? If it did, you wouldn't need to know which protocol was in use.
- jkyle 11y ago
  I think that's the point. Only one port, multiple protocols.
- quonn 11y ago
  Well, almost all devices will probably just use USB 3.1 anyway. The few exceptions are probably for professionals and they simply have to be plugged into a port with the thunderbolt symbol using cables that have a thunderbolt symbol, too.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  I think you've got it backwards - if I'm reading this correctly, and you own a (for the sake of argument), 2016 MacBook Pro - your Thunderbolt 3 ports will support everything. USB/Thunderbolt are now using the same physical interface (no need for dongles), and Thunderbolt 3 will support USB 3.1. In the incredibly rare (will likely never be seen by an average consumer) scenario that you have some high-end equipment that actually requires Thunderbolt 3, and not USB 3.1 - you'll definitely know whether your device supports it, and on which ports. Put in regular terms - you can now use your USB 3.1 device in any port that you can plug into.
  - monocasa 11y ago
    But, ostensibly, there's going to be thunderbolt devices soon which, while having a USB Type-C plug, won't work in a regular USB port despite the Type-C plug.
stephen_g 11y ago
I'm interested in how backwards compatibility works - will old Thunderbolt devices work with just an adaptor cable? As someone who does a lot of professional video/audio work, I have a bunch of Thunderbolt devices so I hope that's the case.
- orbitur 11y ago
  This article ( http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-computex-2015 http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c... ) explicitly mentions an adapter for the older Thunderbolts. I assume the adapter would be passive.
snarfy 11y ago
The USB C connector is awesome and this is great news. I still wish the industry would have standardized on the 2.5mm jack. It can be plugged in any direction. You could pull a cord out of a mess of cables and it would not snag as there is nothing to snag on.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Not very suitable for high-speed impedence-matched communication, and not ideal for power delivery: the 'ring' prong in the socket touches the tip on insertion.
  - wlesieutre 11y ago
    And for a 12-wire USB Type-C equivalent you'd need a TRRRRRRRRRRS connector.
  - 72deluxe 11y ago
    Hence why we prefer Speakon connectors instead of those lame jack plugs they insist on putting on all guitar amps (and a great way to blow up a Marshall amp - just half pull that speaker output cable out and watch the valves go a funny colour eventually)
lawl 11y ago
So now you can't even put glue in the thunderbolt port anymore to prevent DMA attacks? I don't think DMA attacks have been fully solved yet via software, or am I not up to date here? I guess you could blacklist the driver.
- jimmy0x52 11y ago
  Just glue over your USB-C ports with tinfoil.
  - lawl 11y ago
    You do realize that this is a very easy to pull off attack? http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/ http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/ Do you also think people who use screenlocks are tinfoil hatters?
    - lfuller 11y ago
      It's more that your computer should be considered compromised regardless if you allow someone to gain physical access to it. You should know where your device is at all times. I'm not willing to throw away my device's resale value to block a physical compromise attack.
      - lawl 11y ago
        It's about noise. The physical lock on your door doesn't prevent anyone from breaking in. But you can clearly tell someone broke in and it creates noise. It's not always practical to take your notebook to the toilet with you, so you want to make it as hard as possible for someone to compromise it in a limited time frame. Security is never absolute, it just about buying time to notice an attack. This applies to the physical lock on your door just as much as it does on your notebook
- the8472 11y ago
  If the thunderbolt part (more accurately, the pci-express lanes) could be disabled without losing the USB 3.1 and display port capabilities the port still might be "good enough" for most purposes. And yeah, we really need device firewalls that isolate everything via IOMMU and don't allow drivers to do any memory mappings until the user confirmed the device.
Roritharr 11y ago
I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The promise of USB has always been one of standardization. If I knew my mothers notebook is from around somewhere after 2008, if it has a USB Port, it will be USB 2 compatible. In 2020 i won't be able to know if the monitor i recommend my mother will be able to connect to her laptop over the USB Type-C Port or not, or if it will run at full resolution or not, if it will be able to charge the notebook over it, or not... etc. Its just a mess. If you make a standard, please make it a standard, not a pick and choose affair where the result ist just confusion.
- FreakyT 11y ago
  I disagree, provided that the standard provides for some degree of backwards compatibility. I think it's great how a USB 3.0 drive will still work on a USB 1.0 computer from 1999. Sure, it'll run slower, but it'll work, and even without an adapter! With Apple's previous various high-speed ports (Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt), they have no backwards compatibility -- from FW 400 -> 800 you could use an adaptor, but for Thunderbolt you're out of luck completely.
  - Roritharr 11y ago
    The point is, there will be Plug-Compatible Devices that are not Backwards compatible, as evidenced by the Thunderbolt Port switching to it. Of course other Devices will follow that come without external power supplies and other features that don't allow for graceful degradation. Thats my point. If it all were backwards compatible as it has been until now, things would be great, but that door has been shut now.
    - FreakyT 11y ago
      Ah, I see your point. At the same time, though, there do exist some USB 3.0 peripherals that require of a lot of bandwidth (like docking stations), that, while theoretically backwards compatible, wouldn't actually work with a USB 1.0 port in practice due to bandwidth constraints.
outworlder 11y ago
So, will Apple finally be able to refresh the Thunderbolt Display? I got an old one I want to sell before it gets obsolete. I guess the time is now. Edit: "Thunderbolt 3 integrates USB 3.1, optional 100W power delivery, 5K @ 60Hz display." Optional power delivery? Optional nowadays just mean "will be removed before even reaching production"
- timdorr 11y ago
  Whenever this makes it's way to the Macbook Pro (probably next year?), this will definitely enable them to make the upgrade. Right now, they don't have any TB3-capable computers, so no one would want to buy that monitor. And I guess the sticky part will be all those 12" Macbook's with Type C connectors that wouldn't work with such a display...
  - bryanlarsen 11y ago
    Those 12" Macbook's aren't capable of driving a 5K display at 60Hz, period, even if they had a TB3 port. However, a TB3 display plugged into a standard type-C port would negotiate a DP1.2 connection so it could run 5K@30 or 4K@60.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - timdorr 11y ago
      I'm not saying they should. I'm just saying there will be confusion about there being a Type C connector on the monitor and the laptop, and that they don't work together.
      - bryanlarsen 11y ago
        But I'm saying that they probably will work together. Downgraded, sure, just like when you plug a USB3 hard drive into a USB2 port. It's not fast, but you can get your files off.
- 11y ago
digi_owl 11y ago
And they leave out the one thing that would be interesting, a wiring diagram. the C port is interesting in that it provides both USB pins and a set of pins that can be used for a number of functions (Displayport being its out of the gate use). If this leave the USB pins alone, and make use of the supplemental pins for Thunderbolt, there will be no port confusion. Especially as Tunderbolt is already set up to carry Displayport data anyways. Then it just comes down to the chipset to negotiate the right protocols.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  That's basically how it works. There's a pair of wires that run USB 2.0. Those are then used to negotiate what the 8 high speed wires and 2 sideband wires are used for.
- lsaferite 11y ago
  If you read the spec sheet for USB 3.1 and the Type-C connector you'll see they also talk about PCIe in alt-mode as well. DP in alt-mode is the one getting all the press though.
- grecy 11y ago
  Wiring diagram and lots more details here http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbolt-3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbo...
hendersoon 11y ago
Sadly, the blocker for external graphics isn't the power draw, it's that Intel steadfastly refuses to license Thunderbolt for external GPU enclosures. That's why you can't buy a macbook air and plug in a little $300 box with a GeForce 970 and play high-end games on it right now. There are no technical reasons why this won't work-- in fact, people have hacked together solutions that work great. Intel doesn't want to let you do it.
- grecy 11y ago
  Slide #15 in the presentation actually has "External graphics" as a bullet point, so maybe that's about to change?
  - hendersoon 11y ago
    So it does! I hope you're right, that would be amazing!
- unfamiliar 11y ago
  I suspect this is because they think thunderbolt 1 and perhaps even 2 do not have the bandwidth to give satisfying graphics performance. This might change with thunderbolt 3.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    TB1 and TB2 might not have had enough bandwidth for high-performance stuff but it did have more than enough bandwidth to blow IGPs out of the water: DYI external TB2 systems had 80~90% of "internal" desktop performances on synthetic benchmarks[0], even with a TB — EC chain you could reach very, very respectable performances[1] [0] http://www.anandtech.com/show/7987/running-an-nvidia-gtx-780-ti-over-thunderbolt-2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7987/running-an-nvidia-gtx-780... [1] http://forum.techinferno.com/implementation-guides-apple/4271-2013-11-macbook-air-gtx570%404gbps-c-tbec2-pe4l-2-1b-win7-%5Bkloper%5D.html http://forum.techinferno.com/implementation-guides-apple/427...
- mikhailt 11y ago
grecy 11y ago
Given that it supports dual 4K displays at 60Hz with one cable, or a single 5K display at 60Hz with one cable, I think it's safe to say Apple are waiting for this to announce their new cinema display. Anyone think they'll pre-announce it at WWDC (like they did the Mac Pro)?
- stephenr 11y ago
  With any luck that will mean the return of a ~24" 4k screen along side a new ~27" 5k
rasz_pl 11y ago
Intel just cant let go the idea of collecting IP royalties from every single device you plug into your computer :/
- rayiner 11y ago
  Yeah, they should just stop developing USB technology for other people to use.
anigbrowl 11y ago
Is this finally one port to rule them all? Please let it be so so that we can keep things the same for more than 12 months at a time.
chatmasta 11y ago
I have a Thunderbolt Display I have been meaning to sell. I think a.s.a.p is probably the time to do it, since I expect a release of a USB-C display at WWDC.

214 points by rbii 11y ago

The linked site seems to be completely toast, but here are some secondary sources which I’d guess have approximately the same content: http://www.cnet.com/news/thunderbolt-3-and-usb-type-c-join-forces-for-one-port-to-rule-them-all/ http://www.cnet.com/news/thunderbolt-3-and-usb-type-c-join-f... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2929798/thunderbolt-3-to-work-over-usb-c.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2929798/thunderbolt-3-to-work... http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-computex-2015 http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c...

hjnilsson 11y ago

And finally, the future has arrived. If the iPhone 7 (doubt the 6S) sports USB-C as well, there will be a truly universal connector. Imagine screens, laptops, TVs, phones, mp3 players, docks, hard drives and toasters all using the same plug (well, maybe not the last one). There will be a painful time of transition until we are there, but hopefully it will be the last one. (Conveniently this also saves Apple on the new MPBs, they can now have both USB A and USB C ports without it being weird)

easytiger 11y ago
They will find a way to ruin it. Don't worry
imaginenore 11y ago
Apple using a standard connector, dream on.
- melling 11y ago
  Apple led the way with the original USB in the late 90's. PC companies and users dragged their feet. "We don't like change." It took almost 5 years to gain traction. A couple months ago on HN I asked about PC's getting the new USB C connector and no one seemed in a hurry. It won't be a standard until PC's ship with at least one port.
  - lloeki 11y ago
    > It won't be a standard until PC's ship with at least one port. Phones (and tablets) getting a Type-C port may very well coerce the PC market into faster adoption.
  - josefresco 11y ago
    Apple wasn't even involved in the creation of the USB spec. Every major PC manufacturer was, and had committed to the spec already. Apple did "lead the way' by shipping a computer with no legacy ports, but the PC industry hardly "dragged their feet". It takes years to churn so many PCs with (legacy ports) which dominated the market.
- jacobolus 11y ago
  > Apple using a standard connector, dream on. Apple is clearly pushing heavily behind the scenes in both the USB-IF and with Intel/Thunderbolt to drive USB Type C ports. Reportedly their engineers did much of the work designing the port. Looking at their one-port Macbook, they’re obviously heavily invested in USB Type C’s success. I assume every future Mac is going to be mostly USB Type C ports. Can you clarify what you mean with your comment? I’m guessing iPhones will stick with Lightning on one end for at least the near future though.
  - genericuser 11y ago
    I just want to thank you for qualifying your description of Apple's contribution to USB-C in a correct manner, as opposed to perpetuating the myth that Apple invented USB-C. It's initial conception having come out of the USB 3.1 development by AMD, HP, Intel, and Microsoft. It is refreshing to see someone not spreading the revisionist history that has been popular on this subject.
    - jacobolus 11y ago
      My external non-expert impression (which could be totally off-base; I don’t have inside sources) is that folks making devices like phones and tablets were jealous of the reversibility, faster battery charging, and size advantage Apple could obtain with Lightning jacks, compared to the ridiculous extended USB 3.1 Micro-B jack, and started clamoring for a better connector sometime in ~2012. Once Apple realized such a new connector would be coming with or without them, they decided to throw their weight behind it and make sure that the connector met all of their own needs. Apple certainly isn’t the only party (or even the main party) responsible for the new connector, but from what I’ve read they do deserve some applause for putting their resources in and making sure the new connector is the best it can be.
      - genericuser 11y ago
        That all agrees with how I understand the situation as a fellow external non-expert. I just got really frustrated a while back by all the 'Apple invented USB-C' and even the 'Apple basically invented USB-C' headlines. So wanted to applaud someone for choosing the phrasing 'much of the work' which I believe to be a correct statement, and if incorrect only errors slightly on the side of too much credit.
- Osmium 11y ago
  Apple replaced its proprietary MagSafe with USB-C for the latest MacBook, so there's precedent. (Aside: but I wonder if magnetic connectors are even appropriate for a cable that can transmit data as well as power. With MagSafe, if the cable was disconnected, the laptop battery would take over and you'd be fine, but with thew new MacBook you'd potentially have data loss if you had a hard drive daisy-chained in. So perhaps that's a factor in why they got rid of magnetic connectors?)
jacobolus 11y ago
> they can now have both USB A and USB C ports without it being weird I’m expecting them to kill off USB type A ports entirely on future laptops. We’ll see what happens to Magsafe, HDMI, and SD card slots. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see a Macbook Pro with 4–6 USB type C (Thunderbolt 3) ports, a headphone jack, and nothing else. > Imagine screens, laptops, TVs, phones, mp3 players, docks, hard drives and toasters all using the same plug (well, maybe not the last one) I don’t think toasters are a good fit, but USB Type C with its 100W DC could be great for powering other small appliances (LED desk lamps, small fans, printers, scanners, video cameras, small TVs, routers, modems, electric toothbrushes, ...), if USB Type C starts showing up in outlets in homes/cars/airplanes/airports/classrooms/...
- smhenderson 11y ago
  I could even see them ditching the head phone jack eventually. I can't imagine it will be long before someone starts making USB C headphones.
  - adlpz 11y ago
    I hope they don't do that, I don't want to go around with a DAC hanging off my headphones. And making them more expensive.
    - lsaferite 11y ago
      It wouldn't need a DAC, just a special plug. Type-C connectors support an analog audio mode.
      - adlpz 11y ago
        Nice, I wasn't aware Type-C could route anything analog besides power. I assumed it just piped digital serial protocols.
  - Nullabillity 11y ago
    Well, considering that USB A headsets are already pretty common...
kcorbitt 11y ago
On the balance, having one connector and hand-waving everything else as "it's all software" is probably better than the bewildering combination of ports and protocols we have now. But it will come with its own new and interesting issues as well. For example, when can/can't you plug your USB-C webcam into your USB-C monitor and expect your computer to detect it? If I plug my USB-C toaster into a USB-C computer, will it power up? Does a USB-C hub (like the ones we use with USB-A when you don't have enough ports) necessarily support every possible protocol, or can you only plug a subset of computer peripherals into it? Will all USB-C cables have the amperage ratings to safely power my laptop from the wall, or will there have to be different cable types for different uses?
- gutnor 11y ago
  That's already the case with USB ( and to some extend Bluetooth and NFC ) What do you get when you plug you USB phone in your USB computer ? What about the tablet ? Why can I read files from my phone via USB but my phone can't read file from my USB HDD ? Why is my Bluetooth headphone mono with the computer, but stereo with the phone. Why can's my NFC yubikey work with my NFC phone. Right now, people mostly ignore it because there is generally broad support in devices provided by manageable number of generic protocols. So you mostly only have to care about the few cases when stuff don't work rather than thinking what works. There is no reason to be overly pessimistic about USB-C, it is an incremental improvement over technologies already suffering from the same issue.
  - izacus 11y ago
    I was hoping the USB-C would actually fix this issue - after all, USB was mostly universally compatible for vast majority of devices and I think people started to expect that if you can plug it in, it works.
lucaspiller 11y ago
> Imagine screens, laptops, TVs I have no doubts they will continue to have VGA ports until 2025...
- organsnyder 11y ago
  Intel's upcoming Skylake architecture is rumored to not support VGA. That might speed along its demise somewhat. I actually use the VGA port on my ThinkPad somewhat regularly—it's still the most common display connector in many offices. However, I do carry dongles for HDMI and DVI (adapting from the built-in DisplayPort) just in case. I'm looking forward to having USB-C replace all of them.
malchow 11y ago
Any theories on when TVs will use USB-C over HDMI?
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
> there will be a truly universal connector Well, the connector will have a universal shape. But the cables won't work universally (you need special ones for high-speed Thunderbolt), and two things sharing a connector won't mean they'll work together due to different protocols (USB 3, DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, others).

berberous 11y ago

Can someone explain whether I should care that they are still using DP 1.2 rather than 1.3? I had thought 1.3 was needed for non stitched 4k 60hz, but this should have plenty of bandwidth, so I'm now not sure what the issue with 1.2 vs 1.3 is.

seanalltogether 11y ago
I was disappointed in the lack of 1.2a, having access to adaptive sync would be a nice feature for gaming.
alcidesfonseca 11y ago
Displayport daisy-chaining for screens above 1980x1080p requires 1.3. (Using two daisy-chained dell screen's on my 2011 macbook air does not work because it requires 1.3 and mba only supports 1.2.
lvh 11y ago
The article claims dual 4k @ 60Hz over 1 cable; so that seems to rule out stitching? That, or it's an awful lot of DP1.2 channels + stitching, which I didn't know worked with multiple physical heads.
zaphoyd 11y ago
It appears that this cable has 8 lanes of DP 1.2 connectivity. 4 DP 1.2 lanes is enough for a non-tiled 4K 60hz display. So TB3 can supply enough bandwidth for two of them. A 5K 60Hz display requires either DP1.3's higher bandwidth lanes or more than 4 DP1.2 lanes teamed in a tiled arrangement. TB3 with DP1.2 will be able to handle single tile 4K displays or double tiled 5K. It will not be able to handle single tile 5K or the other features of DP1.3 (high refresh rate/8K/alternate bit depths)

Already__Taken 11y ago

Seems to be trading all our different ports with the problem of having all levels of different cables? This port is going to be very expensive for the manufactures. If it does everything I'm going to need a bunch. Does anything stop OEMs making a row of identical ports that only 1 charges my laptop, only a couple take can use the fastest cable and I'm sure all sorts of potential shenanigans,

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Is there any word on whether the cables will be different? I suspect the cables will match, but the protocols the port support will be determined by the controller chipset.
- Already__Taken 11y ago
  I can't see how the cables will look much different between each other but even so they will all fit the same connector. There's already planned the 20gbps copper, 40gbps active copper and optical. What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives through.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    > What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives though. This has nothing to do with this Thunderbolt announcement, the situation would be the same even if only USB 3.1 was supported. However, the solutions are the same as ever: 1. Don't use charge only cables, buy cables that support charging and data. They're normally affordable. 2. Keep the charge only cable plugged in to your power source. 3. Mark the charge only cables with a sticker. As for the Thunderbolt 3 announcement, it looks like there are three proposed cables, and it looks very likely that the passive and active versions will support both USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3. Perhaps the light based ones won't, but they'll be niche at first, unless Thunderbolt 3 takes off rapidly.
  - lsaferite 11y ago
    USB-PD can check the cable to see what it's capabilities are so it won't push too much current over the wrong type of cable. I imagine any scheme to use TB3 over a Type-C connector will be able of checking the cable as well.

izacus 11y ago

Hmm, I don't understand the description fully - does that mean that it can happen that I can get a device with USB-C plug, plug it into computer and it won't work because the device uses Thunderbolt 3 and the computer isn't an Apple? Or will all Thunderbolt 3 devices be able to scale back and communicate with devices over USB if the controller is not available? How will that work with displays over USB-C connectors? Is there a possibility that now instead of just checking for a USB port, we'll have to read the list of controllers/protocols available in devices connecting over USB-C ports?

pgeorgi 11y ago
USB Type C provides a standardized protocol for protocol negotiation. I assume that Thunderbolt uses that. It's already used in Type C to enable plugging in USB, chargers (PD spec), HDMI or DP adapters (https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dingdong https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/dingdong) and I think even to route PCIe over Type C. Adding Thunderbolt to the mix shouldn't be too hard.
- jordanthoms 11y ago
  I think the issue is, that if you have a thunderbolt over USB-C display, and plug it into a normal USB-C port on your laptop (say the latest macbook), it won't work, since the laptop doesn't support the thunderbolt signaling. So it's a new point of confusion - USB devices which are physically compatible but not electrically. It's something that could possibly be solved through the markings on the devices etc and I still think doing thunderbolt over the USB-C port is great. Perhaps the display example could fall back to supporting a display-over-usb standard, it won't work as well but could help.
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    I'd hope they gave up on their own DP signalling and just use the type C one.
  - cmsj 11y ago
    I don't think we have enough detail about Thunderbolt 3 yet to know whether devices will be able to detect that they are connected to a USB port and not a Thunderbolt port. If they can detect that, they may well be able to choose to degrade. It seems like an ideal way for Apple to be able to ship a display which can be connected to both thunderbolt and USB-C hosts, without the user having to care. Obviously some Thunderbolt devices (e.g. PCI-E chassis) wouldn't reasonably be able to degrade to USB, but a good proportion of them, would. I very much hope this is what is going to happen!

out_of_protocol 11y ago

One port to rule em all

lectrick 11y ago
One port to find them
- WildUtah 11y ago
  One port to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
the8472 11y ago
Considering the DMA vulnerabilities of thunderbolt, that's not too far off. At least until we have some sort of IOMMU-based hotplug device firewalls in our operating systems.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  USB 3.0 has DMA too.
  - the8472 11y ago
    But is that remote DMA? Controller/driver-managed DMA transfers in the fashion of "shovel the next X incoming kilobytes to this memory range" is not the same as arbitrary writes to host memory initiated by a device.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      Ah, maybe it isn't, fair point.
  - rasz_pl 11y ago
    On USB only Host is allowed to be a bus master. Thunderbold does PCI/PCIe and by extension allows any plugged gizmo to take over whole computer.

donatj 11y ago

When Thunderbolt was first released it caused a lot of confusion in my office for people with DisplayPort who couldn't hook up to Thunderbolt monitors, bought for them by our IT group that really didn't understand the difference. I see this problem coming on strong AGAIN with this. This port is just USB-C while this other port is USB-C and Thunderbolt... That sounds like a load of confusion waiting to happen.

orbitur 11y ago
I think the Apple TB Display is comparable here. If you have a rare TB device, you're probably a professional, and yes, you'll need to ensure the TB logo is on the port. If it's an extremely common USB device, it'll work on any port, without exception. The Apple Thunderbolt monitors are Apple's fault. There was no reason they couldn't have accepted a raw DisplayPort signal, but they still didn't.
- kjjw 11y ago
  Confused. I have an Apple TB display and plug it into a ThinkPad mini DisplayPort port. Works fine.
  - outworlder 11y ago
    It really doesn't work - I really really wish it did. Your ThinkPad has a Thunderbolt port (which doubles as a DisplayPort).
  - donatj 11y ago
    Either your ThinkPad has Thunderbolt as was suggested, or you have a DisplayPort Cinema Display.
- cmsj 11y ago
  FWIW, one reason would be that they'd needed to have somehow worked a USB connection into the mix, for pure DisplayPort ports, otherwise you have no way to control the brightness, use the camera, or the audio output.

awalton 11y ago

Ugh Intel. We just fixed the USB problem of "I can't figure out which way to plug this thing in", why do you have to go and add the complication of "Wait, is this a Thunderbolt or USB C device/port?" This is why we can't have nice things.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Not really. This is a smart move. Why can't the hardware can't support both? If it did, you wouldn't need to know which protocol was in use.
jkyle 11y ago
I think that's the point. Only one port, multiple protocols.
quonn 11y ago
Well, almost all devices will probably just use USB 3.1 anyway. The few exceptions are probably for professionals and they simply have to be plugged into a port with the thunderbolt symbol using cables that have a thunderbolt symbol, too.
ghshephard 11y ago
I think you've got it backwards - if I'm reading this correctly, and you own a (for the sake of argument), 2016 MacBook Pro - your Thunderbolt 3 ports will support everything. USB/Thunderbolt are now using the same physical interface (no need for dongles), and Thunderbolt 3 will support USB 3.1. In the incredibly rare (will likely never be seen by an average consumer) scenario that you have some high-end equipment that actually requires Thunderbolt 3, and not USB 3.1 - you'll definitely know whether your device supports it, and on which ports. Put in regular terms - you can now use your USB 3.1 device in any port that you can plug into.
- monocasa 11y ago
  But, ostensibly, there's going to be thunderbolt devices soon which, while having a USB Type-C plug, won't work in a regular USB port despite the Type-C plug.

stephen_g 11y ago

I'm interested in how backwards compatibility works - will old Thunderbolt devices work with just an adaptor cable? As someone who does a lot of professional video/audio work, I have a bunch of Thunderbolt devices so I hope that's the case.

orbitur 11y ago
This article ( http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-computex-2015 http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c... ) explicitly mentions an adapter for the older Thunderbolts. I assume the adapter would be passive.

snarfy 11y ago

The USB C connector is awesome and this is great news. I still wish the industry would have standardized on the 2.5mm jack. It can be plugged in any direction. You could pull a cord out of a mess of cables and it would not snag as there is nothing to snag on.

pjc50 11y ago
Not very suitable for high-speed impedence-matched communication, and not ideal for power delivery: the 'ring' prong in the socket touches the tip on insertion.
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  And for a 12-wire USB Type-C equivalent you'd need a TRRRRRRRRRRS connector.
- 72deluxe 11y ago
  Hence why we prefer Speakon connectors instead of those lame jack plugs they insist on putting on all guitar amps (and a great way to blow up a Marshall amp - just half pull that speaker output cable out and watch the valves go a funny colour eventually)

lawl 11y ago

So now you can't even put glue in the thunderbolt port anymore to prevent DMA attacks? I don't think DMA attacks have been fully solved yet via software, or am I not up to date here? I guess you could blacklist the driver.

jimmy0x52 11y ago
Just glue over your USB-C ports with tinfoil.
- lawl 11y ago
  You do realize that this is a very easy to pull off attack? http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/ http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/ Do you also think people who use screenlocks are tinfoil hatters?
  - lfuller 11y ago
    It's more that your computer should be considered compromised regardless if you allow someone to gain physical access to it. You should know where your device is at all times. I'm not willing to throw away my device's resale value to block a physical compromise attack.
    - lawl 11y ago
      It's about noise. The physical lock on your door doesn't prevent anyone from breaking in. But you can clearly tell someone broke in and it creates noise. It's not always practical to take your notebook to the toilet with you, so you want to make it as hard as possible for someone to compromise it in a limited time frame. Security is never absolute, it just about buying time to notice an attack. This applies to the physical lock on your door just as much as it does on your notebook
the8472 11y ago
If the thunderbolt part (more accurately, the pci-express lanes) could be disabled without losing the USB 3.1 and display port capabilities the port still might be "good enough" for most purposes. And yeah, we really need device firewalls that isolate everything via IOMMU and don't allow drivers to do any memory mappings until the user confirmed the device.

Roritharr 11y ago

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The promise of USB has always been one of standardization. If I knew my mothers notebook is from around somewhere after 2008, if it has a USB Port, it will be USB 2 compatible. In 2020 i won't be able to know if the monitor i recommend my mother will be able to connect to her laptop over the USB Type-C Port or not, or if it will run at full resolution or not, if it will be able to charge the notebook over it, or not... etc. Its just a mess. If you make a standard, please make it a standard, not a pick and choose affair where the result ist just confusion.

FreakyT 11y ago
I disagree, provided that the standard provides for some degree of backwards compatibility. I think it's great how a USB 3.0 drive will still work on a USB 1.0 computer from 1999. Sure, it'll run slower, but it'll work, and even without an adapter! With Apple's previous various high-speed ports (Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt), they have no backwards compatibility -- from FW 400 -> 800 you could use an adaptor, but for Thunderbolt you're out of luck completely.
- Roritharr 11y ago
  The point is, there will be Plug-Compatible Devices that are not Backwards compatible, as evidenced by the Thunderbolt Port switching to it. Of course other Devices will follow that come without external power supplies and other features that don't allow for graceful degradation. Thats my point. If it all were backwards compatible as it has been until now, things would be great, but that door has been shut now.
  - FreakyT 11y ago
    Ah, I see your point. At the same time, though, there do exist some USB 3.0 peripherals that require of a lot of bandwidth (like docking stations), that, while theoretically backwards compatible, wouldn't actually work with a USB 1.0 port in practice due to bandwidth constraints.

outworlder 11y ago

So, will Apple finally be able to refresh the Thunderbolt Display? I got an old one I want to sell before it gets obsolete. I guess the time is now. Edit: "Thunderbolt 3 integrates USB 3.1, optional 100W power delivery, 5K @ 60Hz display." Optional power delivery? Optional nowadays just mean "will be removed before even reaching production"

timdorr 11y ago
Whenever this makes it's way to the Macbook Pro (probably next year?), this will definitely enable them to make the upgrade. Right now, they don't have any TB3-capable computers, so no one would want to buy that monitor. And I guess the sticky part will be all those 12" Macbook's with Type C connectors that wouldn't work with such a display...
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  Those 12" Macbook's aren't capable of driving a 5K display at 60Hz, period, even if they had a TB3 port. However, a TB3 display plugged into a standard type-C port would negotiate a DP1.2 connection so it could run 5K@30 or 4K@60.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - timdorr 11y ago
    I'm not saying they should. I'm just saying there will be confusion about there being a Type C connector on the monitor and the laptop, and that they don't work together.
    - bryanlarsen 11y ago
      But I'm saying that they probably will work together. Downgraded, sure, just like when you plug a USB3 hard drive into a USB2 port. It's not fast, but you can get your files off.
11y ago

digi_owl 11y ago

And they leave out the one thing that would be interesting, a wiring diagram. the C port is interesting in that it provides both USB pins and a set of pins that can be used for a number of functions (Displayport being its out of the gate use). If this leave the USB pins alone, and make use of the supplemental pins for Thunderbolt, there will be no port confusion. Especially as Tunderbolt is already set up to carry Displayport data anyways. Then it just comes down to the chipset to negotiate the right protocols.

bryanlarsen 11y ago
That's basically how it works. There's a pair of wires that run USB 2.0. Those are then used to negotiate what the 8 high speed wires and 2 sideband wires are used for.
lsaferite 11y ago
If you read the spec sheet for USB 3.1 and the Type-C connector you'll see they also talk about PCIe in alt-mode as well. DP in alt-mode is the one getting all the press though.
grecy 11y ago
Wiring diagram and lots more details here http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbolt-3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbo...

hendersoon 11y ago

Sadly, the blocker for external graphics isn't the power draw, it's that Intel steadfastly refuses to license Thunderbolt for external GPU enclosures. That's why you can't buy a macbook air and plug in a little $300 box with a GeForce 970 and play high-end games on it right now. There are no technical reasons why this won't work-- in fact, people have hacked together solutions that work great. Intel doesn't want to let you do it.

grecy 11y ago
Slide #15 in the presentation actually has "External graphics" as a bullet point, so maybe that's about to change?
- hendersoon 11y ago
  So it does! I hope you're right, that would be amazing!
unfamiliar 11y ago
I suspect this is because they think thunderbolt 1 and perhaps even 2 do not have the bandwidth to give satisfying graphics performance. This might change with thunderbolt 3.
- masklinn 11y ago
  TB1 and TB2 might not have had enough bandwidth for high-performance stuff but it did have more than enough bandwidth to blow IGPs out of the water: DYI external TB2 systems had 80~90% of "internal" desktop performances on synthetic benchmarks[0], even with a TB — EC chain you could reach very, very respectable performances[1] [0] http://www.anandtech.com/show/7987/running-an-nvidia-gtx-780-ti-over-thunderbolt-2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7987/running-an-nvidia-gtx-780... [1] http://forum.techinferno.com/implementation-guides-apple/4271-2013-11-macbook-air-gtx570%404gbps-c-tbec2-pe4l-2-1b-win7-%5Bkloper%5D.html http://forum.techinferno.com/implementation-guides-apple/427...
mikhailt 11y ago

grecy 11y ago

Given that it supports dual 4K displays at 60Hz with one cable, or a single 5K display at 60Hz with one cable, I think it's safe to say Apple are waiting for this to announce their new cinema display. Anyone think they'll pre-announce it at WWDC (like they did the Mac Pro)?

stephenr 11y ago
With any luck that will mean the return of a ~24" 4k screen along side a new ~27" 5k

rasz_pl 11y ago

Intel just cant let go the idea of collecting IP royalties from every single device you plug into your computer :/

rayiner 11y ago
Yeah, they should just stop developing USB technology for other people to use.

anigbrowl 11y ago

Is this finally one port to rule them all? Please let it be so so that we can keep things the same for more than 12 months at a time.

chatmasta 11y ago

I have a Thunderbolt Display I have been meaning to sell. I think a.s.a.p is probably the time to do it, since I expect a release of a USB-C display at WWDC.