6 ms·

Why you should build an application (even if it already exists)

191 points by ajv 17y ago

dimarco 17y ago
I'm trying hard not to fall for the obvious trap of buying the Browser Sketch Pad linked in his post, but I want it so bad.
- icey 17y ago
  Assuming you have a printer, just download the zip from the upper left hand corner here: http://960.gs/ http://960.gs/ There is a PDF in it that has basically the same thing for free, and you can print as many pages as you want. (Direct zip link: http://960.gs/files/960_download.zip http://960.gs/files/960_download.zip - The PDF is in a folder called "sketch_sheets") Those stencils do look cool though ;)
  - marcamillion 17y ago
    Thanks very much for this. I just bought a monochrome B&W laser printer from Newegg, and have a case of blank paper and really didn't want to have order anything new. This download made my night. Wish I could upvote you twice :)
- aarongough 17y ago
  It really is beautifully designed isn't it! Weirdly I still enjoy doing all of my designs on paper which makes this even more tempting!
  - Psyonic 17y ago
    $18 for the stencil + $8 for the pad... $26 could make your day. What are you waiting for?
    - aarongough 17y ago
      For my credit card not to be maxed out after paying for Facebook and Google ads :-p
- Psyonic 17y ago
  It's only $8... why not just buy it? Even if you never use it, you're not out much.
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Well done post. You could find a reason not to do anything. Google? Check out the search engines that already exist and own the space. Apple? No one wants a computer for personal use. Dropbox? File storage has been done and no margins. Twitter? 140 characters is worthless. Vizio? Enough TVs exist. YCombinator? WTF are you going to do with $15k. I could go on and on and on. Seriously, just fucking build it. If for some odd reason NOTHING at all exists like what you're doing, a competitor will come along that does. There is nothing and I mean nothing that a smart team of 20 somethings can't build nowadays. At worst, you'll have something that you, yourself love. That's the key to all of this: Build something YOU want, then adapt it so it works for a broader range of people if need be. If the tshirt for getting accepted to ycombinator is: build something people want and the tshirt for getting acquired is: i built something people want, the tshirt for getting asked to interview/demo should be: i built something I wanted.
- kylebragger 17y ago
  really well said.
- nearestneighbor 17y ago
  There is nothing and I mean nothing that a smart team of 20 somethings can't build nowadays. Define "team", but I think you are overgeneralizing.
  - jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
    I'm trying to find the article, but I think it's zuck who said something like: "A company/team is getting a group of really smart people together to work towards the same common goal and vision while making a living. " That's all it is to me. Have a goal/vision that is so awe inspiring that it attracts really smart and great people to work together with you to achieve it.
    - nearestneighbor 17y ago
      Here's an example (credit goes to The Simpsons and Goedel): Can your team build an app so awesome that they themselves will not be able to build improved versions of it?
nathanh 17y ago
Great post. Whenever I see a product similar to something I'm developing, it makes me feel better to know that there is a market for what I'm building.
TrevorBramble 17y ago
This thinking has led me to start (and continue) two projects so far: a Twitter client and a Google Reader replacement. I'm constantly questioning the value of my efforts when solutions already exist, but it turns out that irritation is a pretty solid motivator. =^)
- cschep 17y ago
  Yeah! If not the BEST motivator.
  - cema 17y ago
    Irritation makes an oyster grow pearls.
- ThinkWriteMute 17y ago
  If I could turn my urge to strangle developers into pure energy, the US would be off Oil :/
SlyShy 17y ago
And, of course, building applications is useful practice if nothing else. I recently finished a poor reddit clone which I have no intention of actually using to test some of these new fangled key-value stores.
nico 17y ago
I have also realized one thing: there is always room for one more. Unless the market your are aiming at is incredibly small, chances are it will never be covered 100%, hence you'll always have at least some room to get in. It's really incredible that us techies are always looking for something completely different to do, when instead we could just do something that is already proven and make money out of it, and even more money if we do it really well. Think car dealerships for example, it doesn't matter that someone already invented them and that there are thousands of them, people still want to buy cars and try new stuff, same with restaurants, supermarkets, electronics..... you get the idea.
- Psyonic 17y ago
  Yes, but part of the draw of software in general is that one vendor can theoretically serve the entire market, whereas a car dealership can only serve a given area.
  - tjr 17y ago
    A better example might be book publishers; do we really need any C books beyond K&R, or at most, K&R plus van der Linden? Maybe not, but there's dozens of them anyway. Different books on the same topic might be selected based on anything from number of pages to familiarity with the publisher and/or author to typesetting to cover graphics to thoroughness of the index to reviews on Amazon.com to addressing niche needs (or perceived needs) of a particular target audience to ... Even today, with lots of programmers wishing C would just die forever, I suspect a publisher could put out a new book on C and make it profitable if they found the right criteria.
chrischen 17y ago
I'd actually say that, if your not inventig some crazy cutting edge new technology, then whatever web app you're building already exists. I also thought it is quote obvious to do it anyways. No two apps are the same, just similar.
bcl 17y ago
The added benefit is that even if your app does eventually fail you have learned a bunch of new things that you can now apply to work, your next app, life and the broken plumbing you've been meaning to get to. This is how I learned CSS and jQuery -- working on http://take3.movielandmarks.com http://take3.movielandmarks.com (which is nowhere near complete, and needs a rewrite in Python to keep me happy).
niels 17y ago
One really important point, that is not mentioned, is that even if a great app exists, you will not be able to make any money off it. That's why it makes sense to build and own the app your self.
kyro 17y ago
Yes, this is something I always say when others tell me that someone else has already executed my idea. If I have a problem and am not aware of a product out there that solves it, then there MUST be others who are no more aware than me. Those are the potential customers you can grab through great marketing. Not all business owners are aware of 37signals' products, and there are many other markets where a portion of them are unaware of even the mainstream and standard solutions available to them. That's not to say you shouldn't research your target market for competitors, but don't be discouraged by pools full of sharks. There's enough prey for everyone, I think.
biggitybones 17y ago
I've been struggling with this one for a while, and finally realized that it's just an easy way of avoiding getting my hands dirty and a form of procrastination. There's really nothing bad that can come out of designing and building an app from start to finish, even if you're the only one whoever uses it. I finally dove into my first full app and if nothing else it's a great hobby and gives me something to look forward to after work. That being said, I'm still of the thought that an identical clone isn't something worth sinking hundreds of hours into; I think you need at least SOMETHING that is different (if only just a bit). Example: After a recent 2 week cross country road trip, I created a quick and dirty travel log to track our adventure on our web comic site. When we got back, I planned to implement this as a web app, but discovered Everlater, which does EXACTLY what I wanted to write (even down to the exact target markets and usages..). Reading their development blog felt like they were stealing the thoughts out of my head, so when it gets to that point I think finding another idea is best. Ideas are a dime a dozen - if you need help, just use this list http://www.sixmonthmba.com/2009/02/999ideas.html http://www.sixmonthmba.com/2009/02/999ideas.html.
rwhitman 17y ago
Of course the downside to this attitude is that after years of just building every application you want regardless you end up with a half dozen semi-adopted apps that you need to manage hahaha...
richardburton 17y ago
I was speaking to a guy today who has a really interesting idea for a project management tool (yes, another one!). Even though I've tried every tool under the sun I still thought that his concept sounded awesome. The way he intends to combine some of the best concepts out there with his own experience in the project-management space will definitely give him a unique product. Just one solid USP is all he really needs to differentiate. He won't beat all his competitors with lots of ticks in a classic competition matrix. What he will do is scratch an itch that he's had for 6 years and hopefully be able to get all the people he's met during that time (who have the same itch) to use his app to scratch it. The phrase: "it's been done" Makes me shudder. The fact that there are lots of companies in a given market should invite, rather deter newcomers. The important point is to be different, unique, or superior in some way and that's what gives you an advantage.
- asimeqi 17y ago
  Please have your friend try to sell to Verizon. I had the worst kind of experience when I was switching to FIOS. I put the order on December 21 for a January 3 installation. As soon as i put the new order, my existing phone line was cut off. I called them to point out the error and they had to put a new order for a conventional line. But then my FIOS order was auto cancelled. When I called back to get my new FIOS order, my installation date was fully booked and I had to wait until January 10. In my long and multiple calls with customer support I could sense how frustrated the customer support people were with their project management software. I am sure a much better software can be written and probably already exists.
spc476 17y ago
But but but ... we're not supposed to reinvent the wheel! We're supposed to find some existing product/code base, no matter how marginally related it is to what we want to do, improve that, and hand it back to the community! I've been told over and over again, don't write code that already exists! You're wasting your time!
- stevejohnson 17y ago
  You're missing the point of the article. He's talking about products that are presumably closed-source, and the only way to improve them would be to get a job at someone else's company. If you want to encourage code sharing, build it better and make it open.
marcamillion 17y ago
What is so funny about this thread, is that it seems that every other post is repeating what the previous guy just said, which all say "just build it already, even if it exists". Seems that you guys took that one step too far and applied it to comments too ;) ---btw...I liked the article...not hating, just observing =)

191 points by ajv 17y ago

I'm trying hard not to fall for the obvious trap of buying the Browser Sketch Pad linked in his post, but I want it so bad.

icey 17y ago
Assuming you have a printer, just download the zip from the upper left hand corner here: http://960.gs/ http://960.gs/ There is a PDF in it that has basically the same thing for free, and you can print as many pages as you want. (Direct zip link: http://960.gs/files/960_download.zip http://960.gs/files/960_download.zip - The PDF is in a folder called "sketch_sheets") Those stencils do look cool though ;)
- marcamillion 17y ago
  Thanks very much for this. I just bought a monochrome B&W laser printer from Newegg, and have a case of blank paper and really didn't want to have order anything new. This download made my night. Wish I could upvote you twice :)
aarongough 17y ago
It really is beautifully designed isn't it! Weirdly I still enjoy doing all of my designs on paper which makes this even more tempting!
- Psyonic 17y ago
  $18 for the stencil + $8 for the pad... $26 could make your day. What are you waiting for?
  - aarongough 17y ago
    For my credit card not to be maxed out after paying for Facebook and Google ads :-p
Psyonic 17y ago
It's only $8... why not just buy it? Even if you never use it, you're not out much.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Well done post. You could find a reason not to do anything. Google? Check out the search engines that already exist and own the space. Apple? No one wants a computer for personal use. Dropbox? File storage has been done and no margins. Twitter? 140 characters is worthless. Vizio? Enough TVs exist. YCombinator? WTF are you going to do with $15k. I could go on and on and on. Seriously, just fucking build it. If for some odd reason NOTHING at all exists like what you're doing, a competitor will come along that does. There is nothing and I mean nothing that a smart team of 20 somethings can't build nowadays. At worst, you'll have something that you, yourself love. That's the key to all of this: Build something YOU want, then adapt it so it works for a broader range of people if need be. If the tshirt for getting accepted to ycombinator is: build something people want and the tshirt for getting acquired is: i built something people want, the tshirt for getting asked to interview/demo should be: i built something I wanted.

kylebragger 17y ago
really well said.
nearestneighbor 17y ago
There is nothing and I mean nothing that a smart team of 20 somethings can't build nowadays. Define "team", but I think you are overgeneralizing.
- jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
  I'm trying to find the article, but I think it's zuck who said something like: "A company/team is getting a group of really smart people together to work towards the same common goal and vision while making a living. " That's all it is to me. Have a goal/vision that is so awe inspiring that it attracts really smart and great people to work together with you to achieve it.
  - nearestneighbor 17y ago
    Here's an example (credit goes to The Simpsons and Goedel): Can your team build an app so awesome that they themselves will not be able to build improved versions of it?

nathanh 17y ago

Great post. Whenever I see a product similar to something I'm developing, it makes me feel better to know that there is a market for what I'm building.

TrevorBramble 17y ago

This thinking has led me to start (and continue) two projects so far: a Twitter client and a Google Reader replacement. I'm constantly questioning the value of my efforts when solutions already exist, but it turns out that irritation is a pretty solid motivator. =^)

cschep 17y ago
Yeah! If not the BEST motivator.
- cema 17y ago
  Irritation makes an oyster grow pearls.
ThinkWriteMute 17y ago
If I could turn my urge to strangle developers into pure energy, the US would be off Oil :/

SlyShy 17y ago

And, of course, building applications is useful practice if nothing else. I recently finished a poor reddit clone which I have no intention of actually using to test some of these new fangled key-value stores.

nico 17y ago

I have also realized one thing: there is always room for one more. Unless the market your are aiming at is incredibly small, chances are it will never be covered 100%, hence you'll always have at least some room to get in. It's really incredible that us techies are always looking for something completely different to do, when instead we could just do something that is already proven and make money out of it, and even more money if we do it really well. Think car dealerships for example, it doesn't matter that someone already invented them and that there are thousands of them, people still want to buy cars and try new stuff, same with restaurants, supermarkets, electronics..... you get the idea.

Psyonic 17y ago
Yes, but part of the draw of software in general is that one vendor can theoretically serve the entire market, whereas a car dealership can only serve a given area.
- tjr 17y ago
  A better example might be book publishers; do we really need any C books beyond K&R, or at most, K&R plus van der Linden? Maybe not, but there's dozens of them anyway. Different books on the same topic might be selected based on anything from number of pages to familiarity with the publisher and/or author to typesetting to cover graphics to thoroughness of the index to reviews on Amazon.com to addressing niche needs (or perceived needs) of a particular target audience to ... Even today, with lots of programmers wishing C would just die forever, I suspect a publisher could put out a new book on C and make it profitable if they found the right criteria.

chrischen 17y ago

I'd actually say that, if your not inventig some crazy cutting edge new technology, then whatever web app you're building already exists. I also thought it is quote obvious to do it anyways. No two apps are the same, just similar.

bcl 17y ago

The added benefit is that even if your app does eventually fail you have learned a bunch of new things that you can now apply to work, your next app, life and the broken plumbing you've been meaning to get to. This is how I learned CSS and jQuery -- working on http://take3.movielandmarks.com http://take3.movielandmarks.com (which is nowhere near complete, and needs a rewrite in Python to keep me happy).

niels 17y ago

One really important point, that is not mentioned, is that even if a great app exists, you will not be able to make any money off it. That's why it makes sense to build and own the app your self.

kyro 17y ago

Yes, this is something I always say when others tell me that someone else has already executed my idea. If I have a problem and am not aware of a product out there that solves it, then there MUST be others who are no more aware than me. Those are the potential customers you can grab through great marketing. Not all business owners are aware of 37signals' products, and there are many other markets where a portion of them are unaware of even the mainstream and standard solutions available to them. That's not to say you shouldn't research your target market for competitors, but don't be discouraged by pools full of sharks. There's enough prey for everyone, I think.

biggitybones 17y ago

I've been struggling with this one for a while, and finally realized that it's just an easy way of avoiding getting my hands dirty and a form of procrastination. There's really nothing bad that can come out of designing and building an app from start to finish, even if you're the only one whoever uses it. I finally dove into my first full app and if nothing else it's a great hobby and gives me something to look forward to after work. That being said, I'm still of the thought that an identical clone isn't something worth sinking hundreds of hours into; I think you need at least SOMETHING that is different (if only just a bit). Example: After a recent 2 week cross country road trip, I created a quick and dirty travel log to track our adventure on our web comic site. When we got back, I planned to implement this as a web app, but discovered Everlater, which does EXACTLY what I wanted to write (even down to the exact target markets and usages..). Reading their development blog felt like they were stealing the thoughts out of my head, so when it gets to that point I think finding another idea is best. Ideas are a dime a dozen - if you need help, just use this list http://www.sixmonthmba.com/2009/02/999ideas.html http://www.sixmonthmba.com/2009/02/999ideas.html.

rwhitman 17y ago

Of course the downside to this attitude is that after years of just building every application you want regardless you end up with a half dozen semi-adopted apps that you need to manage hahaha...

richardburton 17y ago

I was speaking to a guy today who has a really interesting idea for a project management tool (yes, another one!). Even though I've tried every tool under the sun I still thought that his concept sounded awesome. The way he intends to combine some of the best concepts out there with his own experience in the project-management space will definitely give him a unique product. Just one solid USP is all he really needs to differentiate. He won't beat all his competitors with lots of ticks in a classic competition matrix. What he will do is scratch an itch that he's had for 6 years and hopefully be able to get all the people he's met during that time (who have the same itch) to use his app to scratch it. The phrase: "it's been done" Makes me shudder. The fact that there are lots of companies in a given market should invite, rather deter newcomers. The important point is to be different, unique, or superior in some way and that's what gives you an advantage.

asimeqi 17y ago
Please have your friend try to sell to Verizon. I had the worst kind of experience when I was switching to FIOS. I put the order on December 21 for a January 3 installation. As soon as i put the new order, my existing phone line was cut off. I called them to point out the error and they had to put a new order for a conventional line. But then my FIOS order was auto cancelled. When I called back to get my new FIOS order, my installation date was fully booked and I had to wait until January 10. In my long and multiple calls with customer support I could sense how frustrated the customer support people were with their project management software. I am sure a much better software can be written and probably already exists.

spc476 17y ago

But but but ... we're not supposed to reinvent the wheel! We're supposed to find some existing product/code base, no matter how marginally related it is to what we want to do, improve that, and hand it back to the community! I've been told over and over again, don't write code that already exists! You're wasting your time!

stevejohnson 17y ago
You're missing the point of the article. He's talking about products that are presumably closed-source, and the only way to improve them would be to get a job at someone else's company. If you want to encourage code sharing, build it better and make it open.

marcamillion 17y ago

What is so funny about this thread, is that it seems that every other post is repeating what the previous guy just said, which all say "just build it already, even if it exists". Seems that you guys took that one step too far and applied it to comments too ;) ---btw...I liked the article...not hating, just observing =)