10 ms·

An Analysis of Nespresso

210 points by sobbybutter 11y ago

kbd 11y ago
The font is so huge on mobile. I get about three words to a line, which makes the site very hard to read.
- jimseven 11y ago
  Noted - will fix once the site is back up.
stolsvik 11y ago
Interesting! Please author, pull through all the types of pods, and give us a tasting-analysis and subjective rating! You did not like the one you tried, but each type do taste quite differently.
- markcerqueira 11y ago
  OP, please!!!
- buro9 11y ago
  This is addressed in the article, and the author limits the article to the technical feat of producing consistency in espresso production from a cold-start in 50 seconds. To quote: > What I haven’t really talked about here is how it tasted. I didn’t really like how the shots tasted, but I have a very different preference for many aspects of coffee and espresso compared to the typical (Nespresso) consumer. I’ve repeatedly tried to make the point that thinking we are somehow safe from the dominance of Nespresso, because we can make coffee taste better, is not a smart way to think. Taste isn't the argument (and that argument has been had and is being had many times per day on countless other sites).
- popopje 11y ago
  The author is a world champion barista and ceo of Square Mile Coffee, he is not going to like the taste any of them - the taste is not the point!
- jimseven 11y ago
  I need to order a lot more pods, but I will probably do a quick taste and measurement of each one they offer. Even the ones that will utterly disgust me. (I don't like Monsooned Malabar even a little bit.)
lhnz 11y ago
My feeling last time I saw one in person: Convincing the public to install a coffee vending machine in their house at cost to themselves by marketing it as a coffee machine was an impressive feat. They're very small, stylish, and low-priced. Until you start to buy the pods for your vending machine.
- bobbles 11y ago
  Eh if it means im replacing a $3-$4 cup of coffee with a 50 cent cup of coffee + convenience, sounds good to me.
  - Daneel_ 11y ago
    This is exactly why I use a Nespresso machine. At $5 and ~10 minutes per cup of coffee from the coffee shop, with varying outcomes depending on the barista, vs 70¢ + milk per cup and almost perfectly identical every time, it just makes sense to use one. Even at one cup per working day, that's a saving of over $20 per week for me. Even one of the top end machines would pay for itself in months.
    - pbowyer 11y ago
      You could replace it with... instant coffee, y'know? I've found the more expensive ones taste good, and it's only cents per mug. Sure, it's not the coffee-shop mouth-experience (I put a lot of that down to the frothed milk), but a Nespresso doesn't provide that either?
      - spotman 11y ago
        Where I live, Nespresso makes a superior experience than I can find within a 3 mile radius. (fwiw, Los Angeles) Yes, if I go to my absolute favorite coffee shop in town, it is superior to Nespresso. But, in comparison to instant coffee (in my humble opinion), it is night and day, and its miles and miles ahead taste wise than coffee bean or star bucks.
        11y ago
cdcarter 11y ago
"Speciality coffee doesn’t offer anything to the consumer who wants to drink great espresso at home, but doesn’t want a new hobby." This is an amazing take away, and I think many coffee roasters, gin distillers and beer Brewers ought remember it.
- keithpeter 11y ago
  I take the OA's point, however most of us (I assume) will be using a cafetiere or a paper filter based coffee maker at home rather than doing the full artisan roast and grind. In my case, I'm using pre-ground coffee in foil bags from the local supermarket at around £3 to £4 per 227g standard pack. I make myself a large diluted coffee each morning using a 3-cup mokapot. The 5 minute prep time isn't onerous and the economics are much better than buying a machine of the kind in the OA along with all the capsules. Coffee hacking question: If I got a grinder capable of grinding beans to the fineness needed for a moka pot, would I notice a significant difference in taste?
  - jurre 11y ago
    Yes, freshly ground coffee tastes much, much better!
  - peteretep 11y ago
    My suspicion is you might see the same improvement that members of the high-fi community get when they switch to gold-played cables and electricity smoothers.
    - stinos 11y ago
      Your suspicion is likely wrong though - I have no science to back this up but am 100% sure in blind tetsts people with normally developped taste buds would pick the freshly ground one from the pre-ground one. The difference in taste is just too big to ignore (or at least the difference between the ground vs pre-ground I have here at home is). Unlike the improvements you compare them to, which can usually not even be measured with devices, let alone heard.
dcw303 11y ago
I don't think the pods are expensive. At 70-80 cents each, that's under a fourth the cost of having an espresso of comparable quality made for you outside of your home.
- jsankey 11y ago
  People making the argument that the pods are expensive are comparing them to the price of coffee per kilo. This totally misses the point by overlooking why people use pods: convenience. As you note to get a similar convenience level you need to pay someone else much more for a cup.
- brusch64 11y ago
  You could say the same thing with Gillette blades. Sure, one blade is a fraction of the cost of getting your beard shaved at a barber's shop. But it is still much more expensive than the alternatives. If you compare Nespresso pods to raw coffee you pay a lot of money for 500g of coffee.
  - mortenlarsen 11y ago
    With regard to the Gillette blades, get a RazorPit. It has saved me a ton of money. The blades stay almost like new for months. I am not affiliated with the product in any way.
    - brusch64 11y ago
      Haven't really shaved in years (the last time - maybe 5 years ago ?). I am just shaving the edges of my full beard. For me throwaway razors last years. But thank you for the tip !
    - bambax 11y ago
      Never heard of that... just bought one! Thanks! We'll see how it goes! ;-)
- jasonkester 11y ago
  A real espresso pulled by a professional will run you €0.90 in Europe (unless you live in a the center of Paris, in which case you might get to spend as much as €1.50). There's usually one of those professionals within 50 yards of your home, possibly even on your walking route to work. So it's not always even saving you money. Certainly compared to driving out of your way to a Starbucks and paying US (or god forbid, UK) prices. But like everything, it depends. On the other hand, coffee brewed in your $10 stovetop espresso machine will run you $2.50 for a bag that lasts 2 weeks, and will add roughly four minutes to your morning coffee ritual. I'm curious about these machines, but the thing that keeps me on the fence is that it would suddenly make coffee drinking expensive.
bshimmin 11y ago
My parents bought a Nespresso machine recently, and we have a Lavazza one at home now (which also uses pods). The coffee from both machines tastes good, and the process is ridiculously simple. We used to have a Gaggia machine too, but we ended up relocating it to the garage, in a cardboard box, because making coffee using it was really just too much effort - buying the appropriate coffee, storing it, tamping it, and so on, just didn't really seem like all that much fun to us, and often the results were quite unpredictable (sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker). The Nespresso and Lavazza machines seem to produce identical cups of coffee every time, which I generally view as a positive. (All three machines were roughly the same price, ~£100.) Sometimes I drink expensive coffee in fancy coffee places in London, where it's £3+ for a cup. The coffee definitely has different flavours from the cups I have at home, but I can't honestly say I very often think it's much, much better.
- caractacus 11y ago
  I'm with you on this. There's some great coffee in London - some wonderful nutty and bitter tastes in places around Soho that Nespresso doesn't seem able to replicate - but I'm perfectly happy with a pod or two in the morning at the cost of 30p instead of the £3 I'd pay at Soho Grind or the interminable wait for the laid-back bearded chaps at Carpo to stop chatting up the black-clad chocolate servers and make my damn drink.
nness 11y ago
There is a lot of assumed knowledge here, which hasn't really gone explained. What are "fines" and what are "extractions?" Why is the percentage important, and why are the slight differences in grams important? Without an explanation, it is quite hard to really follow the conclusions of the article.
- maudineormsby 11y ago
  Quick explanation: Fines are the very small coffee particles created by the grinding or crushing of the bean. They are generally undesirable as for even extraction of the coffee you want uniformly sized coffee particles. Fines also tend to end up in your cup and can make the brew gritty. Extractions can mean a few things but in a nutshell, it's the amount of flavor compounds in the bean that end up in your brew. If you say '20%' extracted you mean that 20% of the weight of the coffee ended up taken out by the brewing process (I believe you brew then dry the grounds and weigh before/after). Slight differences could be the difference between bold flavor and over-brewed bitterness. Also different coffees will want different extraction amounts depending on their flavor profile and such; as a general rule most people use too little coffee and overextract it, thus getting all the bitter compounds from the coffee and thinking it tastes bad.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
torrance 11y ago
I would be on board with these if it wasn't for their terrible environmental impact. I'd be interested in an analysis on that - but until these capsules can basically compost I'll be sticking to loose grounds thank you.
- eps 11y ago
  They are compost only if you put them there. Nespresso has a pod recycling program in place as does pretty much every developed country (not for pods, of course, but the aluminum).
  - austinjp 11y ago
    While this is true, it's worth noting that recycling is not the preferred step in eco consumerism. Refuse, reduce, reuse, recycle, compost. Nespresso pods cannot be reused, unless someone has hacked a kludge for that, and I doubt the recycling process composts the grounds (more info on that would be great). Extracting aluminium from its ore is hugely energy-consuming. So the most sensible thing to do is simply not use Nespresso, and avoid contributing to the aluminium problem. There are Nespresso-compatible pods made by third parties, but they tend to be plastic. I'm unconvinced that these can be effectively recycled. FWIW, before my landlord bought a fancy-pants bean grinding espresso machine, I'd use a stove-top espresso maker. A mokka/mukka, spelling varies. 3 mins to make a perfect espresso from grounds, and I could compost the grounds.
    - Kalium 11y ago
      The kludge to re-use Nespresso pods has been hacked.
    - dpark 11y ago
      In the US, at least, Nespresso's recycling program extract the aluminum and composts the grounds. http://www.nespresso.com/ecolaboration/us/en/article/9/3068/collecting-and-recycling-used-capsules-in-the-usa.html http://www.nespresso.com/ecolaboration/us/en/article/9/3068/... Also, a Moka pot is definitely not the same. I like what comes out of a Moka pot if it's brewed well, but it isn't really espresso.
caseyf7 11y ago
I had a higher end Nespresso. The killer was how little espresso it makes. I don't consider myself a heavy coffee drinker because I only drink one cup in the morning. However it took 4 Nespresso pods (black ones) to get a decent amount of caffeine and not get headaches. And I usually order single shots when I go out.
- Ellipsis753 11y ago
  You can adjust the amount made from a single pod. You can actually make a full mug from a single pod and it still tastes great (and not watery).
  - true_religion 11y ago
    Well more water in the cup isn't the issue. It's that there's not enough caffine in each pod. I tend to agree. I only get two shots of expresso and I'm usually fine with that, but with Nessprso's machine I couldn't get enough caffeine unless I put 4 shots in it.
- maudineormsby 11y ago
  FWIW, you can calibrate it to produce over 2x the amount on a 'shot'.
- Sami_Lehtinen 11y ago
  Aren't hackers prone to optimization? If getting caffeine is the goal, why to mess with coffee at all? You can easily get pure caffeine and enjoy it. It also doesn't color your teeth. Same question applies beer (or other fattening drinks with way too much sugar) versus just alcohol.
pbowyer 11y ago
The site's down for me; here's Google's webcache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XXtPHagIaPMJ:www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-analysis-of-nespresso-part-i/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XXtPHag...
bambax 11y ago
The site is unavailable so I don't know what's in the article, but from the comments I gather it's looking at the benefits of owning a Nespresso machine at home? Here in France everyone has a Nespresso machine or two (I have three); you can buy Nespresso capsules from Nespresso shops, or alternative capsules in any supermarket, anywhere. What Nespresso sells is simplicity and consistency, and an above-average taste. I remember vividly the time before the Nespresso: when you went to have dinner at a friend's and they offered coffee at the end of the meal, you were terrified of what they might bring. I absolutely cannot drink the clear lukewarm water that some people (used to) call coffee. Today you simply ask for your favorite Nespresso color, or choose among the ones available, and you're almost certain you're going to get something at least acceptable.
- cmarschner 11y ago
  Interesting. So French people are ok buying coffee for €90 a kilo to get this convenience? I can understand this only because traditionally, the French "Expresso" was guaranteed to be a watery, bitter, creama-less wish-wash.
  - bambax 11y ago
    Expressos you get in Cafés are usually good, if a little bitter (and not comparable to what you can get in Italy). But coffee people made at home used to be, in my own experience and opinion, an abomination. Never hot enough, never strong enough. The truth is, everyone wants something different (decaf, strong, stronger, lighter...) The miracle of Nespresso is that you can serve different cups to different people, at the same time, which is impossible with most other means of producing coffee at home (or very difficult, complex and expensive).
    - toothbrush 11y ago
      > Expressos you get in Cafés are usually good, if a little bitter (and not comparable to what you can get in Italy). That's really not my experience. I've found it consistently hard to find proper espresso in cafés in France; one usually needs to find the one place teeming with bearded hipsters (unfortunately), and you might be lucky to get an acceptable (not excellent) espresso.
kropotkinlives 11y ago
Got a Tassimo here which is a barista in a box I.e. similar. The killer for me isn't the quality which is 90% as good as my local shop but the lack of hassle - it requires virtually no maintenance or cleaning unlike a grinder/machine setup, no trips down the road, 1/4 of the cost, no fighting for a table, not having to queue up and no horrible paper cup that you have to buy in case there isn't a table. Its a great concept and selling well here in the UK.
robin_reala 11y ago
Site’s gone down, so here’s Google’s cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-analysis-of-nespresso-part-i/&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...
camillomiller 11y ago
I would have expected at least a comment pointing out that Nespresso is a Nestlè brand. I'm no treehugger boycotter, but I at least try to avoid the products of tentacular food multinationals as much as I could. I'm not saying that everybody should and I won't ever disregard those who buy their products, but I think that the real origin of the food-based products is always a much neglected point when we talk about them in broader terms. A piece that poses itself as an Analysis of Nespresso should probably tackle this angle, too.
- tabio 11y ago
  Why is multinational bad food?
  - _xzu 11y ago
    In the long term they will lead you to something like Finnish food market ( which is kinda duopoly ). Long supply chains without any reasonable way to check origins of ingredients. Multinationals have also much more resources and incentives to hide and mask health and environmental effects of the food. But worst thing is that to maximize profits taste is "optimized". And optimization doesn't mean good taste but rather "doesn't taste anything so that it won't annoy you even if you eat same thing every day".
  - Fede_V 11y ago
    It's not multinationals in general, it's that Nestle has a horrendous ethical track record. For example, they pushed for powdered milk in Africa with absolutely tragic consequences. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/may/15/medicineandhealth.lifeandhealth http://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/may/15/medicineandh... This is not like Microsoft using their market position to push their products. This is poisoning children for money.
  - saiya-jin 11y ago
    just guessing, but multinational corporations might be viewed by some as not very helpful to humanity in long run, since they are capitalistic structures created to earn money to owners in first place. Morals usually comes a bit further down in priorities ladder (not saying anything particular about Nestle, albeit I vaguely recall some interview with their CEO where he stated all water on earth should not be free, but paid by common people, to... corporations)
spotman 11y ago
This was a great read, really enjoyed it. I am a big fan of Nespresso. It saves me a lot of time, a little money, and consistently provides (for my tastebuds) better coffee than I can get within a 3 mile radius of where I live. (somewhere in los angeles). I buy capsules 50 at a time, for .70c a capsule + 7 dollars shipping, no tax. So that comes to about 42 dollars total, or $0.84 per cup of coffee. That enables me to consume 2 capsules per day for $1.68 per day, or $11.76 per week, and usually I drink less on weekends. Coffee sold locally in the stores of high quality here tends to be a minimum of 10 dollars per pound, and normally to really "select" one I prefer, would cost around $13.00. I like to brew my coffee strong, and still would drink 2 cups of coffee per day, so this tends to run out for me about 6 days of my 7 day week. So while its slightly cheaper for me to drink nespresso, its almost the same price. But, with nespresso, I go from rolling out of bed to the kitchen, and within 30 seconds I have really good tasting coffee, no mess, and I can easily select the type of pour I want, capsule I want, etc. It is truly extremely convenient. Furthermore they are an example of outstanding customer service. My machine had a malfunction once. Called them on first day, they over-nighted me a replacement machine while I sent my in for free repair. Got the original back a few days later. Hardly any downtime w/o a machine. Total cost: $0.00, and the machine wasn't even under warranty. Obviously they want to keep selling me coffee. I have no issue with that. Finally, they offer recycling programs which work good, so I don't feel like I'm being a bad citizen of the earth by supporting them. I see it as sort of a Spotify of coffee. You pay repeatedly one company for good service, and if it meets your needs, it is going to save you time and money if its something you do a lot. For those that are into coffee on a deeper level, is sort of those who are into music on a deeper level. For me with regards to music, I am a bit of a control freak, I like to know what bit rate file I am playing, I like to back them up carefully and managing my music collection I invest time and have lots of pride about - so Spotify (While I generally like their service), is not for me. The same can be said of Nespresso. If you love the entire process of making espresso, getting into the gear, and the execution of how its made and putting that kind of time into it and getting a specific kind of joy out of it, Nespresso would probably not be the right choice. I guess I have enough hobbies, but I still really like well made espresso at home. Nespresso is right there in that intersection.
- caractacus 11y ago
xroche 11y ago
I bought a "real" coffee machine for me and my colleagues (Jura impressa F50 -- https://us.jura.com/en/homeproducts/machines/IMPRESSA-F50-Classic-UL-13684 https://us.jura.com/en/homeproducts/machines/IMPRESSA-F50-Cl...) and, despite being a bit more complicated than a nespresso one, it cost less (despite buying pretty good coffee beans, freshly roasted, and despite the high cost of the machine), and the taste is IMHO better (but this is only a personal opinion). The only cons: cleaning a bit the machine the morning, filling coffee beans time to time (the machine is almost entirely automatic otherwise, with an embedded grinder, etc.), filling water (water can be connected to a water pipe, however), and changing the water filter time to time. Oh, and we can choose the quality/origin of the coffee, and (one more time) it is freshly roasted - yes, call me hipster, but I really like good coffee.
- castell 11y ago
  True, "real" modern super automatics coffee machines are a lot cheaper in the long run (cheap raw coffee) and you have to clean them only as often as a Nespresso machine. (Considering no milk processing is involved, which means care-taking in all cases). It seems like they convinced the public to install a vending machine on the customers expense. It's like Coca/Pepsi Cola convince the public to install a Cola vending machine at their homes.
- jschulenklopper 11y ago
  Best advice on this page. Instead of buying the Nespresso, and enjoying the comfort and consistency of that, buy a grinder and an espresso machine... and enjoy the craft of making espresso, cappuccino of whetever you like. I have the classic Quick Mill 820 (around $600) and buy quality beans from a local coffee roaster: $30-35 for a pound of their best kinds. Using 7 gr. for a standard espresso yields 70 cups, thus 50 cents per cup. Nespresso capsules are at least 75 cents. The flavor might be the same, the comfort might be higher... but it's more expensive, and you'll never learn how to make a cup of coffee yourself. Bonus track of buying beans and grinding them yourself: you can make a pour-over filter coffee, a cold brew, a cafetiere, Moka pot coffee with the same ingredients: water and freshly-ground coffee, and enjoy the variety of flavors because of the differences in making the drink. Try that with Nespresso...
xenu420 11y ago
What is wrong with just using these: https://imgur.com/kXtDUnV https://imgur.com/kXtDUnV
- bambax 11y ago
  Here's what's wrong: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9586941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9586941
  - rconti 11y ago
    Are you familiar with Moka Pots? According to Wikipedia, they are sold in 1,3,6,9,12 shot sizes -- but I think the 3 is the most common. I rarely see large Mokas. You're not really throwing much out.
    - bambax 11y ago
      > Are you familiar with Moka Pots? Not very familiar, no. I have seen them, my grandmother used to have one -- but I don't think I ever used it myself. Many people here (who try to resist the Nespresso tsunami) use a thing that I just found out is called a "French press": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_press http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_press or for a better picture: http://www.crateandbarrel.com/bodum-chambord-34-ounce-french-press/s202525 http://www.crateandbarrel.com/bodum-chambord-34-ounce-french... It's quite popular and makes decent coffee (my wife uses one) but it's still more complex than pressing the button on a Nespresso!
      - masklinn 11y ago
        FWIW the aeropress is a very good alternative to french presses, significantly simpler cleaning (just pop the coffee plug in the compost/trash and rinse the components), almost no fines (if you use paper filters). Though the rest of the operations (grinding coffee, pouring boiling water in the press and pressing down) are the same.
        11y ago
rizumu 11y ago
I been keeping an eye on this Roast-grind-brew coffee machine startup and still can't make up my mind if it is worth it:(https://www.bonaverde.com/en https://www.bonaverde.com/en). I'm still happy grinding my own beans and slow brewing them in a vacuum press. Seems though that the all-in-one roast to cup would be tastier for a cup of coffee (not an espresso). I drank Nespresso for a few years at work. Always went for the dark/espresso roast but it never compared to a decent cup of coffee or espresso. I could tolerate it, but it was barely a step up from a gas station, vending machine joe.
- jimseven 11y ago
  I'd be genuinely astounded if they manage to build that machine and it works, let alone works well.
  - jms703 11y ago
    I'm a backer of that project and plan to write a review when it's released.
jimseven 11y ago
OA here - there's a mirror here: https://archive.is/P9IYd https://archive.is/P9IYd Yes, bluehost sucks. Happy to answer any other questions.
contergan 11y ago
I have a Nespresso and like it very much. As an occasional coffee drinker it's just way more convenient. "Real" coffee is of course better, but the grinding & brewing process is a pain in the ass and after a week or two I have to throw the beans into the trash anyway, since they lose their flavor so quickly after being exposed to air. Even putting them into air-sealed containers and into the fridge doesn't seem to help much. So in the end, the Nespresso might even be cheaper for me, since the capsules last months without noticeably losing flavor. Also, at least in Germany Nespresso's patent on capsules is expired and there are now many cheaper alternatives available. A coffee capsule from a local supermarket costs me about 18 cent, half the price of the original ones.
whatok 11y ago
Haven't used one of these and only used to Keurig plasticity but find that a French Press is a reasonable compromise between convenience and taste. Not a huge factor in my decision but the French Press option is also a hell of a lot cheaper too.
gdubs 11y ago
I invested in a mid-level DeLonghi machine. It's semi-automatic, and although it works with standardized pods, I use ground coffee. It's a fantastic little machine. You can make a high-quality latte in under three minutes with it. I just can't get passed the amount of waste involved in the nespresso process. That, and when compared to an authentic espresso, I find the nespresso to be bitter and watery.
- zschallz 11y ago
  Which machine did you buy?
  - gdubs 11y ago
    It's called the Dedica. [1] I'm very happy with it. I'm enough of a coffee person that I sometimes think I could have gone for a more "prosumer" machine, but for the price point this is a solid machine. The barista grade beast at the office is certainly superior, but this home machine can hold its own. 1: http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/delonghi-dedica-ec680-espresso-machine http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/delonghi-dedica-ec680...
pseud0r 11y ago
With an Aeropress and a coffee grinder you can make much better tasting coffe, much cheaper, and almost as fast.
gadders 11y ago
I got one of these last year, and it gets an awful lot of use. I think if you're a coffee gourmet, then it's not for you. If you're someone that wants a latte at home then (together with the milk heater) they are great for that.
kaolinite 11y ago
When people decide they want to start making good coffee, they often go and spend the best part of $500, or more, on an expensive espresso machine. I did, anyway. I've found though that the two biggest ways to improve your coffee are really simple and really cheap. Anything else above this - an expensive grinder or coffee machine - may help, but nowhere near as much as these two things: 1. Get a pair of digital scales (learn to use the tare button) and spend half an hour making coffee of different strengths. Decide which you prefer and then always use that coffee to water ratio when you make it. 2. Get some decent coffee. You can get a grinder if you want, but it won't make as much of a difference as just getting it from a good source. It can be freshly roasted, freshly ground, whatever - just get it from a good place, not from a supermarket. Personally, I buy a kilogram of coffee beans from http://liminicoffee.co.uk/ http://liminicoffee.co.uk/ once a month. I used to buy it weekly from http://pactcoffee.com/ http://pactcoffee.com/ but I found it's more convenient and just as tasty to get it delivered monthly. Optional third improvement: 3. Get an Aeropress or a Chemex (my preference is a Chemex - even easier to clean up than an Aeropress, can make multiple cups and can be kept warm if you have a hotplate, although I wouldn't recommend that). This is a good step but won't make as much of a difference as picking good coffee and measuring the amounts you're using. There are so many optimisations you can do. Most of them won't have too much of an effect. I do them anyway - I have all of the equipment, have a fairly expensive grinder, spend time letting the coffee bloom (I swear that's rubbish) and am planning to roast my own beans soon - but they're by no means necessary. Do those two things first and then stop to see if you're satisfied.
- xsace 11y ago
  Is the water choice important, what do you recommend?
  - kaolinite 11y ago
    Do you mean the amount of water you use? It's important to measure both the amount of water and the amount of coffee so it's consistent. I personally use 22 grams of coffee per 300ml. It's a personal choice though and it depends on the coffee and method of brewing too: for you that might be too bitter, too strong, too weak, etc. Here's what I do with a Chemex. I put the Chemex on the scales, add the filter and hit tare (so it's now weighing 0g). I add the 22g coffee and hit tare. Then I add 300g of hot water (same as 300ml). It produces the same cup of coffee every time - exactly how I like it. Obviously, if I ever change the coffee I get (or the coffee I get now - currently an espresso blend which is blended for consistency - changes significantly), then I might need to experiment a bit and see whether 24 grams of coffee is now my preference, for example.
coin 11y ago
"Error establishing a database connection"
rilita 11y ago
I have used many varieties of coffee machines. I do have a nespresso machine amongst them, and it seems to work quite well. The volume of espresso/coffee it produces is low per unit time of water running through the coffee though. When I use a normal espresso machine, with my own tamped grind, it puts out espresso/coffee at a higher rate, and I find it is smoother/less bitter due to that. I do tend to prefer a less strong cup, so for me it is nicer to use my own grind as I can vary: 1. The quantity of ground beans 2. The fineness of the grind 3. How much coffee I get by how long I pull it. ( I realize running it too long will make it bitter ) In the article I am gathering he is measuring what percentage of the "grind" is removed in the process of brewing?? It would have been nice to see this compared amongst a variety of machines, not just 1 nespresso machine and 1 manual drip. Also an acidity test of the resultant coffee would be neat. For the interested, here are the various machines / methods I have used: 1. Standard junky drip machine ( yuck... ) 2. Bodum dual glass bowl vacuum I find this to be the strongest method of brewing, but it also makes the coffee way too bitter for my tastes. 3. Keurig machines Have used 5 or so different ones of these. The higher end commerical ones tend to be a little better but mostly they produce weaker coffee and let a lot of grounds through into the coffee. I don't think the water is hot enough from these, nor is the pressure high enough to get crema of any worth. 4. Tassimo machine This is my favorite taste thus far. The programmed t-discs allow the setting to be varied ( heat and brew amount ), and has produced the smoothest coffee I've had of all the machines I have used. I own 2 of these machines. My only complaint is I cannot use my own grind. 5. Senseo This is my favorite machine overall. The pods are small cloth bags, and the pressure seems to be high enough to produce good crema. Also; I can use my own grind in reusable filters that go in it. Great consistent taste and very easy to use. Also; very easy to clean the whole machine. I own 4 of these. ( for extra parts ) 6. Starbucks "instant" machine. One company I worked at had a huge automatic like starbucks branded machine. This thing tasted horrible. The coffee was the most bitter I have tasted from any machine. It also tasted like it was never cleaned and had a high amount of grinds left in the coffee. 7. Super automatic espresso machine. Another company I worked at had one of the various $5000 automatic espresso machines. Unfortunately I forget the brand at the moment. It worked well, auto grinding etc. I used my own grind with it also. This was nearly equal to the taste/quality of using my own espresso machine, but I could not vary the tamp pressure. The auto internal tamping seemed too loose so the coffee seemed to have a bit less crema. It was convenient as it had less cleanup though. 8. Capresso EC100 This is my go-to machine that I use for my daily coffee. It is just a basic espresso machine. No real thrills here, but it has adequate pressure and heat. I grind my own beans to my desired fineness, add my own amount of beans to my taste at the moment, and typically brew like 4 shots worth out of the same tamped unit. This would seem to cause it to be more bitter but it does not and produces lots of crema. I also often rip open free keurig pods from work and use them in this machine. It improves their taste over keurig machines by far. 9. Old style large reservoir steamer with huge spring/lever. I picked one of these up from a yard sale. Takes forever to heat up. Needs to be cleaned constantly. Feels very finicky. I am way too lazy to be able to get anything consistent out of this. Far too much effort for little gains.
peapicker 11y ago
The "fines" that result are so few that I wonder if most of the pod contents are basically 'instant coffee' espresso powder.

210 points by sobbybutter 11y ago

kbd 11y ago

The font is so huge on mobile. I get about three words to a line, which makes the site very hard to read.

jimseven 11y ago
Noted - will fix once the site is back up.

stolsvik 11y ago

Interesting! Please author, pull through all the types of pods, and give us a tasting-analysis and subjective rating! You did not like the one you tried, but each type do taste quite differently.

markcerqueira 11y ago
OP, please!!!
buro9 11y ago
This is addressed in the article, and the author limits the article to the technical feat of producing consistency in espresso production from a cold-start in 50 seconds. To quote: > What I haven’t really talked about here is how it tasted. I didn’t really like how the shots tasted, but I have a very different preference for many aspects of coffee and espresso compared to the typical (Nespresso) consumer. I’ve repeatedly tried to make the point that thinking we are somehow safe from the dominance of Nespresso, because we can make coffee taste better, is not a smart way to think. Taste isn't the argument (and that argument has been had and is being had many times per day on countless other sites).
popopje 11y ago
The author is a world champion barista and ceo of Square Mile Coffee, he is not going to like the taste any of them - the taste is not the point!
jimseven 11y ago
I need to order a lot more pods, but I will probably do a quick taste and measurement of each one they offer. Even the ones that will utterly disgust me. (I don't like Monsooned Malabar even a little bit.)

lhnz 11y ago

My feeling last time I saw one in person: Convincing the public to install a coffee vending machine in their house at cost to themselves by marketing it as a coffee machine was an impressive feat. They're very small, stylish, and low-priced. Until you start to buy the pods for your vending machine.

bobbles 11y ago
Eh if it means im replacing a $3-$4 cup of coffee with a 50 cent cup of coffee + convenience, sounds good to me.
- Daneel_ 11y ago
  This is exactly why I use a Nespresso machine. At $5 and ~10 minutes per cup of coffee from the coffee shop, with varying outcomes depending on the barista, vs 70¢ + milk per cup and almost perfectly identical every time, it just makes sense to use one. Even at one cup per working day, that's a saving of over $20 per week for me. Even one of the top end machines would pay for itself in months.
  - pbowyer 11y ago
    You could replace it with... instant coffee, y'know? I've found the more expensive ones taste good, and it's only cents per mug. Sure, it's not the coffee-shop mouth-experience (I put a lot of that down to the frothed milk), but a Nespresso doesn't provide that either?
    - spotman 11y ago
      Where I live, Nespresso makes a superior experience than I can find within a 3 mile radius. (fwiw, Los Angeles) Yes, if I go to my absolute favorite coffee shop in town, it is superior to Nespresso. But, in comparison to instant coffee (in my humble opinion), it is night and day, and its miles and miles ahead taste wise than coffee bean or star bucks.
      - 11y ago

cdcarter 11y ago

"Speciality coffee doesn’t offer anything to the consumer who wants to drink great espresso at home, but doesn’t want a new hobby." This is an amazing take away, and I think many coffee roasters, gin distillers and beer Brewers ought remember it.

keithpeter 11y ago
I take the OA's point, however most of us (I assume) will be using a cafetiere or a paper filter based coffee maker at home rather than doing the full artisan roast and grind. In my case, I'm using pre-ground coffee in foil bags from the local supermarket at around £3 to £4 per 227g standard pack. I make myself a large diluted coffee each morning using a 3-cup mokapot. The 5 minute prep time isn't onerous and the economics are much better than buying a machine of the kind in the OA along with all the capsules. Coffee hacking question: If I got a grinder capable of grinding beans to the fineness needed for a moka pot, would I notice a significant difference in taste?
- jurre 11y ago
  Yes, freshly ground coffee tastes much, much better!
- peteretep 11y ago
  My suspicion is you might see the same improvement that members of the high-fi community get when they switch to gold-played cables and electricity smoothers.
  - stinos 11y ago
    Your suspicion is likely wrong though - I have no science to back this up but am 100% sure in blind tetsts people with normally developped taste buds would pick the freshly ground one from the pre-ground one. The difference in taste is just too big to ignore (or at least the difference between the ground vs pre-ground I have here at home is). Unlike the improvements you compare them to, which can usually not even be measured with devices, let alone heard.

dcw303 11y ago

I don't think the pods are expensive. At 70-80 cents each, that's under a fourth the cost of having an espresso of comparable quality made for you outside of your home.

jsankey 11y ago
People making the argument that the pods are expensive are comparing them to the price of coffee per kilo. This totally misses the point by overlooking why people use pods: convenience. As you note to get a similar convenience level you need to pay someone else much more for a cup.
brusch64 11y ago
You could say the same thing with Gillette blades. Sure, one blade is a fraction of the cost of getting your beard shaved at a barber's shop. But it is still much more expensive than the alternatives. If you compare Nespresso pods to raw coffee you pay a lot of money for 500g of coffee.
- mortenlarsen 11y ago
  With regard to the Gillette blades, get a RazorPit. It has saved me a ton of money. The blades stay almost like new for months. I am not affiliated with the product in any way.
  - brusch64 11y ago
    Haven't really shaved in years (the last time - maybe 5 years ago ?). I am just shaving the edges of my full beard. For me throwaway razors last years. But thank you for the tip !
  - bambax 11y ago
    Never heard of that... just bought one! Thanks! We'll see how it goes! ;-)
jasonkester 11y ago
A real espresso pulled by a professional will run you €0.90 in Europe (unless you live in a the center of Paris, in which case you might get to spend as much as €1.50). There's usually one of those professionals within 50 yards of your home, possibly even on your walking route to work. So it's not always even saving you money. Certainly compared to driving out of your way to a Starbucks and paying US (or god forbid, UK) prices. But like everything, it depends. On the other hand, coffee brewed in your $10 stovetop espresso machine will run you $2.50 for a bag that lasts 2 weeks, and will add roughly four minutes to your morning coffee ritual. I'm curious about these machines, but the thing that keeps me on the fence is that it would suddenly make coffee drinking expensive.

bshimmin 11y ago

My parents bought a Nespresso machine recently, and we have a Lavazza one at home now (which also uses pods). The coffee from both machines tastes good, and the process is ridiculously simple. We used to have a Gaggia machine too, but we ended up relocating it to the garage, in a cardboard box, because making coffee using it was really just too much effort - buying the appropriate coffee, storing it, tamping it, and so on, just didn't really seem like all that much fun to us, and often the results were quite unpredictable (sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker). The Nespresso and Lavazza machines seem to produce identical cups of coffee every time, which I generally view as a positive. (All three machines were roughly the same price, ~£100.) Sometimes I drink expensive coffee in fancy coffee places in London, where it's £3+ for a cup. The coffee definitely has different flavours from the cups I have at home, but I can't honestly say I very often think it's much, much better.

caractacus 11y ago
I'm with you on this. There's some great coffee in London - some wonderful nutty and bitter tastes in places around Soho that Nespresso doesn't seem able to replicate - but I'm perfectly happy with a pod or two in the morning at the cost of 30p instead of the £3 I'd pay at Soho Grind or the interminable wait for the laid-back bearded chaps at Carpo to stop chatting up the black-clad chocolate servers and make my damn drink.

nness 11y ago

There is a lot of assumed knowledge here, which hasn't really gone explained. What are "fines" and what are "extractions?" Why is the percentage important, and why are the slight differences in grams important? Without an explanation, it is quite hard to really follow the conclusions of the article.

maudineormsby 11y ago
Quick explanation: Fines are the very small coffee particles created by the grinding or crushing of the bean. They are generally undesirable as for even extraction of the coffee you want uniformly sized coffee particles. Fines also tend to end up in your cup and can make the brew gritty. Extractions can mean a few things but in a nutshell, it's the amount of flavor compounds in the bean that end up in your brew. If you say '20%' extracted you mean that 20% of the weight of the coffee ended up taken out by the brewing process (I believe you brew then dry the grounds and weigh before/after). Slight differences could be the difference between bold flavor and over-brewed bitterness. Also different coffees will want different extraction amounts depending on their flavor profile and such; as a general rule most people use too little coffee and overextract it, thus getting all the bitter compounds from the coffee and thinking it tastes bad.
deleted 11y ago
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torrance 11y ago

I would be on board with these if it wasn't for their terrible environmental impact. I'd be interested in an analysis on that - but until these capsules can basically compost I'll be sticking to loose grounds thank you.

eps 11y ago
They are compost only if you put them there. Nespresso has a pod recycling program in place as does pretty much every developed country (not for pods, of course, but the aluminum).
- austinjp 11y ago
  While this is true, it's worth noting that recycling is not the preferred step in eco consumerism. Refuse, reduce, reuse, recycle, compost. Nespresso pods cannot be reused, unless someone has hacked a kludge for that, and I doubt the recycling process composts the grounds (more info on that would be great). Extracting aluminium from its ore is hugely energy-consuming. So the most sensible thing to do is simply not use Nespresso, and avoid contributing to the aluminium problem. There are Nespresso-compatible pods made by third parties, but they tend to be plastic. I'm unconvinced that these can be effectively recycled. FWIW, before my landlord bought a fancy-pants bean grinding espresso machine, I'd use a stove-top espresso maker. A mokka/mukka, spelling varies. 3 mins to make a perfect espresso from grounds, and I could compost the grounds.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    The kludge to re-use Nespresso pods has been hacked.
  - dpark 11y ago
    In the US, at least, Nespresso's recycling program extract the aluminum and composts the grounds. http://www.nespresso.com/ecolaboration/us/en/article/9/3068/collecting-and-recycling-used-capsules-in-the-usa.html http://www.nespresso.com/ecolaboration/us/en/article/9/3068/... Also, a Moka pot is definitely not the same. I like what comes out of a Moka pot if it's brewed well, but it isn't really espresso.

caseyf7 11y ago

I had a higher end Nespresso. The killer was how little espresso it makes. I don't consider myself a heavy coffee drinker because I only drink one cup in the morning. However it took 4 Nespresso pods (black ones) to get a decent amount of caffeine and not get headaches. And I usually order single shots when I go out.

Ellipsis753 11y ago
You can adjust the amount made from a single pod. You can actually make a full mug from a single pod and it still tastes great (and not watery).
- true_religion 11y ago
  Well more water in the cup isn't the issue. It's that there's not enough caffine in each pod. I tend to agree. I only get two shots of expresso and I'm usually fine with that, but with Nessprso's machine I couldn't get enough caffeine unless I put 4 shots in it.
maudineormsby 11y ago
FWIW, you can calibrate it to produce over 2x the amount on a 'shot'.
Sami_Lehtinen 11y ago
Aren't hackers prone to optimization? If getting caffeine is the goal, why to mess with coffee at all? You can easily get pure caffeine and enjoy it. It also doesn't color your teeth. Same question applies beer (or other fattening drinks with way too much sugar) versus just alcohol.

pbowyer 11y ago

The site's down for me; here's Google's webcache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XXtPHagIaPMJ:www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-analysis-of-nespresso-part-i/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XXtPHag...

bambax 11y ago

The site is unavailable so I don't know what's in the article, but from the comments I gather it's looking at the benefits of owning a Nespresso machine at home? Here in France everyone has a Nespresso machine or two (I have three); you can buy Nespresso capsules from Nespresso shops, or alternative capsules in any supermarket, anywhere. What Nespresso sells is simplicity and consistency, and an above-average taste. I remember vividly the time before the Nespresso: when you went to have dinner at a friend's and they offered coffee at the end of the meal, you were terrified of what they might bring. I absolutely cannot drink the clear lukewarm water that some people (used to) call coffee. Today you simply ask for your favorite Nespresso color, or choose among the ones available, and you're almost certain you're going to get something at least acceptable.

cmarschner 11y ago
Interesting. So French people are ok buying coffee for €90 a kilo to get this convenience? I can understand this only because traditionally, the French "Expresso" was guaranteed to be a watery, bitter, creama-less wish-wash.
- bambax 11y ago
  Expressos you get in Cafés are usually good, if a little bitter (and not comparable to what you can get in Italy). But coffee people made at home used to be, in my own experience and opinion, an abomination. Never hot enough, never strong enough. The truth is, everyone wants something different (decaf, strong, stronger, lighter...) The miracle of Nespresso is that you can serve different cups to different people, at the same time, which is impossible with most other means of producing coffee at home (or very difficult, complex and expensive).
  - toothbrush 11y ago
    > Expressos you get in Cafés are usually good, if a little bitter (and not comparable to what you can get in Italy). That's really not my experience. I've found it consistently hard to find proper espresso in cafés in France; one usually needs to find the one place teeming with bearded hipsters (unfortunately), and you might be lucky to get an acceptable (not excellent) espresso.

kropotkinlives 11y ago

Got a Tassimo here which is a barista in a box I.e. similar. The killer for me isn't the quality which is 90% as good as my local shop but the lack of hassle - it requires virtually no maintenance or cleaning unlike a grinder/machine setup, no trips down the road, 1/4 of the cost, no fighting for a table, not having to queue up and no horrible paper cup that you have to buy in case there isn't a table. Its a great concept and selling well here in the UK.

robin_reala 11y ago

Site’s gone down, so here’s Google’s cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-analysis-of-nespresso-part-i/&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

camillomiller 11y ago

I would have expected at least a comment pointing out that Nespresso is a Nestlè brand. I'm no treehugger boycotter, but I at least try to avoid the products of tentacular food multinationals as much as I could. I'm not saying that everybody should and I won't ever disregard those who buy their products, but I think that the real origin of the food-based products is always a much neglected point when we talk about them in broader terms. A piece that poses itself as an Analysis of Nespresso should probably tackle this angle, too.

tabio 11y ago
Why is multinational bad food?
- _xzu 11y ago
  In the long term they will lead you to something like Finnish food market ( which is kinda duopoly ). Long supply chains without any reasonable way to check origins of ingredients. Multinationals have also much more resources and incentives to hide and mask health and environmental effects of the food. But worst thing is that to maximize profits taste is "optimized". And optimization doesn't mean good taste but rather "doesn't taste anything so that it won't annoy you even if you eat same thing every day".
- Fede_V 11y ago
  It's not multinationals in general, it's that Nestle has a horrendous ethical track record. For example, they pushed for powdered milk in Africa with absolutely tragic consequences. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/may/15/medicineandhealth.lifeandhealth http://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/may/15/medicineandh... This is not like Microsoft using their market position to push their products. This is poisoning children for money.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  just guessing, but multinational corporations might be viewed by some as not very helpful to humanity in long run, since they are capitalistic structures created to earn money to owners in first place. Morals usually comes a bit further down in priorities ladder (not saying anything particular about Nestle, albeit I vaguely recall some interview with their CEO where he stated all water on earth should not be free, but paid by common people, to... corporations)

spotman 11y ago

This was a great read, really enjoyed it. I am a big fan of Nespresso. It saves me a lot of time, a little money, and consistently provides (for my tastebuds) better coffee than I can get within a 3 mile radius of where I live. (somewhere in los angeles). I buy capsules 50 at a time, for .70c a capsule + 7 dollars shipping, no tax. So that comes to about 42 dollars total, or $0.84 per cup of coffee. That enables me to consume 2 capsules per day for $1.68 per day, or $11.76 per week, and usually I drink less on weekends. Coffee sold locally in the stores of high quality here tends to be a minimum of 10 dollars per pound, and normally to really "select" one I prefer, would cost around $13.00. I like to brew my coffee strong, and still would drink 2 cups of coffee per day, so this tends to run out for me about 6 days of my 7 day week. So while its slightly cheaper for me to drink nespresso, its almost the same price. But, with nespresso, I go from rolling out of bed to the kitchen, and within 30 seconds I have really good tasting coffee, no mess, and I can easily select the type of pour I want, capsule I want, etc. It is truly extremely convenient. Furthermore they are an example of outstanding customer service. My machine had a malfunction once. Called them on first day, they over-nighted me a replacement machine while I sent my in for free repair. Got the original back a few days later. Hardly any downtime w/o a machine. Total cost: $0.00, and the machine wasn't even under warranty. Obviously they want to keep selling me coffee. I have no issue with that. Finally, they offer recycling programs which work good, so I don't feel like I'm being a bad citizen of the earth by supporting them. I see it as sort of a Spotify of coffee. You pay repeatedly one company for good service, and if it meets your needs, it is going to save you time and money if its something you do a lot. For those that are into coffee on a deeper level, is sort of those who are into music on a deeper level. For me with regards to music, I am a bit of a control freak, I like to know what bit rate file I am playing, I like to back them up carefully and managing my music collection I invest time and have lots of pride about - so Spotify (While I generally like their service), is not for me. The same can be said of Nespresso. If you love the entire process of making espresso, getting into the gear, and the execution of how its made and putting that kind of time into it and getting a specific kind of joy out of it, Nespresso would probably not be the right choice. I guess I have enough hobbies, but I still really like well made espresso at home. Nespresso is right there in that intersection.

caractacus 11y ago

xroche 11y ago

I bought a "real" coffee machine for me and my colleagues (Jura impressa F50 -- https://us.jura.com/en/homeproducts/machines/IMPRESSA-F50-Classic-UL-13684 https://us.jura.com/en/homeproducts/machines/IMPRESSA-F50-Cl...) and, despite being a bit more complicated than a nespresso one, it cost less (despite buying pretty good coffee beans, freshly roasted, and despite the high cost of the machine), and the taste is IMHO better (but this is only a personal opinion). The only cons: cleaning a bit the machine the morning, filling coffee beans time to time (the machine is almost entirely automatic otherwise, with an embedded grinder, etc.), filling water (water can be connected to a water pipe, however), and changing the water filter time to time. Oh, and we can choose the quality/origin of the coffee, and (one more time) it is freshly roasted - yes, call me hipster, but I really like good coffee.

castell 11y ago
True, "real" modern super automatics coffee machines are a lot cheaper in the long run (cheap raw coffee) and you have to clean them only as often as a Nespresso machine. (Considering no milk processing is involved, which means care-taking in all cases). It seems like they convinced the public to install a vending machine on the customers expense. It's like Coca/Pepsi Cola convince the public to install a Cola vending machine at their homes.
jschulenklopper 11y ago
Best advice on this page. Instead of buying the Nespresso, and enjoying the comfort and consistency of that, buy a grinder and an espresso machine... and enjoy the craft of making espresso, cappuccino of whetever you like. I have the classic Quick Mill 820 (around $600) and buy quality beans from a local coffee roaster: $30-35 for a pound of their best kinds. Using 7 gr. for a standard espresso yields 70 cups, thus 50 cents per cup. Nespresso capsules are at least 75 cents. The flavor might be the same, the comfort might be higher... but it's more expensive, and you'll never learn how to make a cup of coffee yourself. Bonus track of buying beans and grinding them yourself: you can make a pour-over filter coffee, a cold brew, a cafetiere, Moka pot coffee with the same ingredients: water and freshly-ground coffee, and enjoy the variety of flavors because of the differences in making the drink. Try that with Nespresso...

xenu420 11y ago

What is wrong with just using these: https://imgur.com/kXtDUnV https://imgur.com/kXtDUnV

bambax 11y ago
Here's what's wrong: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9586941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9586941
- rconti 11y ago
  Are you familiar with Moka Pots? According to Wikipedia, they are sold in 1,3,6,9,12 shot sizes -- but I think the 3 is the most common. I rarely see large Mokas. You're not really throwing much out.
  - bambax 11y ago
    > Are you familiar with Moka Pots? Not very familiar, no. I have seen them, my grandmother used to have one -- but I don't think I ever used it myself. Many people here (who try to resist the Nespresso tsunami) use a thing that I just found out is called a "French press": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_press http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_press or for a better picture: http://www.crateandbarrel.com/bodum-chambord-34-ounce-french-press/s202525 http://www.crateandbarrel.com/bodum-chambord-34-ounce-french... It's quite popular and makes decent coffee (my wife uses one) but it's still more complex than pressing the button on a Nespresso!
    - masklinn 11y ago
      FWIW the aeropress is a very good alternative to french presses, significantly simpler cleaning (just pop the coffee plug in the compost/trash and rinse the components), almost no fines (if you use paper filters). Though the rest of the operations (grinding coffee, pouring boiling water in the press and pressing down) are the same.
      - 11y ago

rizumu 11y ago

I been keeping an eye on this Roast-grind-brew coffee machine startup and still can't make up my mind if it is worth it:(https://www.bonaverde.com/en https://www.bonaverde.com/en). I'm still happy grinding my own beans and slow brewing them in a vacuum press. Seems though that the all-in-one roast to cup would be tastier for a cup of coffee (not an espresso). I drank Nespresso for a few years at work. Always went for the dark/espresso roast but it never compared to a decent cup of coffee or espresso. I could tolerate it, but it was barely a step up from a gas station, vending machine joe.

jimseven 11y ago
I'd be genuinely astounded if they manage to build that machine and it works, let alone works well.
- jms703 11y ago
  I'm a backer of that project and plan to write a review when it's released.

jimseven 11y ago

OA here - there's a mirror here: https://archive.is/P9IYd https://archive.is/P9IYd Yes, bluehost sucks. Happy to answer any other questions.

contergan 11y ago

I have a Nespresso and like it very much. As an occasional coffee drinker it's just way more convenient. "Real" coffee is of course better, but the grinding & brewing process is a pain in the ass and after a week or two I have to throw the beans into the trash anyway, since they lose their flavor so quickly after being exposed to air. Even putting them into air-sealed containers and into the fridge doesn't seem to help much. So in the end, the Nespresso might even be cheaper for me, since the capsules last months without noticeably losing flavor. Also, at least in Germany Nespresso's patent on capsules is expired and there are now many cheaper alternatives available. A coffee capsule from a local supermarket costs me about 18 cent, half the price of the original ones.

whatok 11y ago

Haven't used one of these and only used to Keurig plasticity but find that a French Press is a reasonable compromise between convenience and taste. Not a huge factor in my decision but the French Press option is also a hell of a lot cheaper too.

gdubs 11y ago

I invested in a mid-level DeLonghi machine. It's semi-automatic, and although it works with standardized pods, I use ground coffee. It's a fantastic little machine. You can make a high-quality latte in under three minutes with it. I just can't get passed the amount of waste involved in the nespresso process. That, and when compared to an authentic espresso, I find the nespresso to be bitter and watery.

zschallz 11y ago
Which machine did you buy?
- gdubs 11y ago
  It's called the Dedica. [1] I'm very happy with it. I'm enough of a coffee person that I sometimes think I could have gone for a more "prosumer" machine, but for the price point this is a solid machine. The barista grade beast at the office is certainly superior, but this home machine can hold its own. 1: http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/delonghi-dedica-ec680-espresso-machine http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/delonghi-dedica-ec680...

pseud0r 11y ago

With an Aeropress and a coffee grinder you can make much better tasting coffe, much cheaper, and almost as fast.

gadders 11y ago

I got one of these last year, and it gets an awful lot of use. I think if you're a coffee gourmet, then it's not for you. If you're someone that wants a latte at home then (together with the milk heater) they are great for that.

kaolinite 11y ago

When people decide they want to start making good coffee, they often go and spend the best part of $500, or more, on an expensive espresso machine. I did, anyway. I've found though that the two biggest ways to improve your coffee are really simple and really cheap. Anything else above this - an expensive grinder or coffee machine - may help, but nowhere near as much as these two things: 1. Get a pair of digital scales (learn to use the tare button) and spend half an hour making coffee of different strengths. Decide which you prefer and then always use that coffee to water ratio when you make it. 2. Get some decent coffee. You can get a grinder if you want, but it won't make as much of a difference as just getting it from a good source. It can be freshly roasted, freshly ground, whatever - just get it from a good place, not from a supermarket. Personally, I buy a kilogram of coffee beans from http://liminicoffee.co.uk/ http://liminicoffee.co.uk/ once a month. I used to buy it weekly from http://pactcoffee.com/ http://pactcoffee.com/ but I found it's more convenient and just as tasty to get it delivered monthly. Optional third improvement: 3. Get an Aeropress or a Chemex (my preference is a Chemex - even easier to clean up than an Aeropress, can make multiple cups and can be kept warm if you have a hotplate, although I wouldn't recommend that). This is a good step but won't make as much of a difference as picking good coffee and measuring the amounts you're using. There are so many optimisations you can do. Most of them won't have too much of an effect. I do them anyway - I have all of the equipment, have a fairly expensive grinder, spend time letting the coffee bloom (I swear that's rubbish) and am planning to roast my own beans soon - but they're by no means necessary. Do those two things first and then stop to see if you're satisfied.

xsace 11y ago
Is the water choice important, what do you recommend?
- kaolinite 11y ago
  Do you mean the amount of water you use? It's important to measure both the amount of water and the amount of coffee so it's consistent. I personally use 22 grams of coffee per 300ml. It's a personal choice though and it depends on the coffee and method of brewing too: for you that might be too bitter, too strong, too weak, etc. Here's what I do with a Chemex. I put the Chemex on the scales, add the filter and hit tare (so it's now weighing 0g). I add the 22g coffee and hit tare. Then I add 300g of hot water (same as 300ml). It produces the same cup of coffee every time - exactly how I like it. Obviously, if I ever change the coffee I get (or the coffee I get now - currently an espresso blend which is blended for consistency - changes significantly), then I might need to experiment a bit and see whether 24 grams of coffee is now my preference, for example.

coin 11y ago

"Error establishing a database connection"

rilita 11y ago

I have used many varieties of coffee machines. I do have a nespresso machine amongst them, and it seems to work quite well. The volume of espresso/coffee it produces is low per unit time of water running through the coffee though. When I use a normal espresso machine, with my own tamped grind, it puts out espresso/coffee at a higher rate, and I find it is smoother/less bitter due to that. I do tend to prefer a less strong cup, so for me it is nicer to use my own grind as I can vary: 1. The quantity of ground beans 2. The fineness of the grind 3. How much coffee I get by how long I pull it. ( I realize running it too long will make it bitter ) In the article I am gathering he is measuring what percentage of the "grind" is removed in the process of brewing?? It would have been nice to see this compared amongst a variety of machines, not just 1 nespresso machine and 1 manual drip. Also an acidity test of the resultant coffee would be neat. For the interested, here are the various machines / methods I have used: 1. Standard junky drip machine ( yuck... ) 2. Bodum dual glass bowl vacuum I find this to be the strongest method of brewing, but it also makes the coffee way too bitter for my tastes. 3. Keurig machines Have used 5 or so different ones of these. The higher end commerical ones tend to be a little better but mostly they produce weaker coffee and let a lot of grounds through into the coffee. I don't think the water is hot enough from these, nor is the pressure high enough to get crema of any worth. 4. Tassimo machine This is my favorite taste thus far. The programmed t-discs allow the setting to be varied ( heat and brew amount ), and has produced the smoothest coffee I've had of all the machines I have used. I own 2 of these machines. My only complaint is I cannot use my own grind. 5. Senseo This is my favorite machine overall. The pods are small cloth bags, and the pressure seems to be high enough to produce good crema. Also; I can use my own grind in reusable filters that go in it. Great consistent taste and very easy to use. Also; very easy to clean the whole machine. I own 4 of these. ( for extra parts ) 6. Starbucks "instant" machine. One company I worked at had a huge automatic like starbucks branded machine. This thing tasted horrible. The coffee was the most bitter I have tasted from any machine. It also tasted like it was never cleaned and had a high amount of grinds left in the coffee. 7. Super automatic espresso machine. Another company I worked at had one of the various $5000 automatic espresso machines. Unfortunately I forget the brand at the moment. It worked well, auto grinding etc. I used my own grind with it also. This was nearly equal to the taste/quality of using my own espresso machine, but I could not vary the tamp pressure. The auto internal tamping seemed too loose so the coffee seemed to have a bit less crema. It was convenient as it had less cleanup though. 8. Capresso EC100 This is my go-to machine that I use for my daily coffee. It is just a basic espresso machine. No real thrills here, but it has adequate pressure and heat. I grind my own beans to my desired fineness, add my own amount of beans to my taste at the moment, and typically brew like 4 shots worth out of the same tamped unit. This would seem to cause it to be more bitter but it does not and produces lots of crema. I also often rip open free keurig pods from work and use them in this machine. It improves their taste over keurig machines by far. 9. Old style large reservoir steamer with huge spring/lever. I picked one of these up from a yard sale. Takes forever to heat up. Needs to be cleaned constantly. Feels very finicky. I am way too lazy to be able to get anything consistent out of this. Far too much effort for little gains.

peapicker 11y ago

The "fines" that result are so few that I wonder if most of the pod contents are basically 'instant coffee' espresso powder.