10 ms·

No mention of interest in programming. That would be a lovely way to pass the time and create some useful things. If not for leisure, perhaps to improve the env

No mention of interest in programming. That would be a lovely way to pass the time and create some useful things. If not for leisure, perhaps to improve the environment (but that could be dangerous, one mistake and they're dead).

dvdfvo 11y ago
It is awesome to think that martians would code on their own machines, but information is one of the only things that is free to transport over planets and almost without delay. In reality, due to their scarcity, first settlers will perform exclusively physical tasks, software will be updated and fixed remotely, and repairs will be performed following strict instructions or advice from Earth. Coding as relaxation is plausible, but mostly for short projects and nothing serious. It is hard to focus on serious mental activity after laborious work.
- rgbrenner 11y ago
  but information is one of the only things that is free to transport over planets and almost without delay. Just FYI, RTT to Mars to between 6 minutes and 44 minutes.
  - dvdfvo 11y ago
    Yes. A difference of 4 orders of magnitude.
    - burnte 11y ago
      It's actually less than one order of magnitude. If it were variable from 6 to 60 then it'd be a full order of magnitude, but never four.
      - napoleond 11y ago
        I assume they mean from ~200ms to ~20min (i.e. comparing to Earth RTT), which is indeed 4 orders of magnitude.
      - sfilipov 11y ago
        I believe he meant transporting information compared to transporting physical goods to Mars. The first takes minutes, the other - hundreds of days.
        dvdfvo 11y ago
        Yes. I though it was obvious from the context of my parent comment.
  - golergka 11y ago
    I don't think that RTT of this magnitude would create significant merge problems.
- derf_ 11y ago
  > but information is one of the only things that is free to transport over planets The marginal cost in terms of power may be very small (compared to a rocket), but the infrastructure costs are enormous, and as a result you're severely capacity-constrained. Current link to Mars Odyssey from DSS 35 in Canberra is 14.22 kbps (roughly equivalent to a modem from 1991).
  - dvdfvo 11y ago
    Satellites are very cheap compared to manned missions. Speed will not be a problem then.
- chongli 11y ago
  software will be updated and fixed remotely, and repairs will be performed following strict instructions or advice from Earth Sounds like a major flaw to me. What if communication back to Earth is disrupted? Having the entire mission rely on a communication link is not a good idea. The people on Mars should be totally capable of conducting all manual repairs and bugfixes on their own. All of the software they use to run the entire base should be open source, available in a local Martian repository, and at least two of the people on the planet should be intimately familiar with the codebase and how all of the equipment works. Ideally, they should also have physical books documenting all of the mission-critical stuff.
  - Retric 11y ago
    It depends on the size of the base. If your population ever broke 10,000 then having a few programs might be a good idea. But, redundant radios are cheap and your probably better off sending an extra doctor / pilot / geologist / engineer / biologist etc for your first few hundred people. After-all having a working terminal that let's someone code is a hell of a lot more complex and uses a lot more power than a radio. PS: This ends up getting back to the huge cost benefit of sending rover instead of people. Sure if you ever built up a self sustaining base including the ability to manufacture everything it needs from replacement parts, to CPU's, food, and fuel then sure send people. Until then you don't actually get any redundancy from sending people there.
  - powera 11y ago
    If every computer data on a Mars mission dies, I think all the colonists aree dead. We aren't anywhere close to the technology to support colonists on Mars without technology. Ergo, "physical books" are just a waste of weight.
    - dvdfvo 11y ago
      If every computer ... dies. Ironically this is also true for Earth. Therefore it is not a concern. :-)
      - 11y ago
jpatokal 11y ago
Programming without any access to the Internet is pretty difficult these days, you'd have to find something completely self-contained to work on.
- drakenot 11y ago
  Stack Overflow releases a quarterly archive[0] of all their data which is only a few gigabytes. If I had access to a couple Computer Science books, all the documentation for my languages and the entirety of Stack Overflow at my fingertips? I think I could do just fine. If I wanted to take it a step further, I could download common libraries that I thought would be useful. I've been learning Rust lately, and I bet I could write a script to download every git repo of all 2000 libraries in Cargo and it still wouldn't be that big. I'm one of those people who do their best work when put under serious constraints. I think 520 days devoted to programming and study with no access to the outside internet would be a neat opportunity. [0] - https://archive.org/details/stackexchange https://archive.org/details/stackexchange
  - iyn 11y ago
    Thanks for posting this, I wasn't aware of th SO/SE archives. I really like having backups/archives of important/valuable data, this is super cool!
  - kibwen 11y ago
    > I bet I could write a script to download every git repo of > all 2000 libraries in Cargo Funnily enough, the Rust developers have actually already written that script, and they run it weekly in order to determine that there have been no stability regressions in the nightly version of the compiler. :)
  - amelius 11y ago
    I guess this is how those black hat hackers spend their time after they get arrested.
- Encosia 11y ago
  It's not really; it's about the same difficulty that it ever was. We've just become very lazy (i.e efficient) when it comes to solving our own problems. Over the course of 520 days, you might be amazed at what you could figure out on your own if you had no other choice.

dvdfvo 11y ago

It is awesome to think that martians would code on their own machines, but information is one of the only things that is free to transport over planets and almost without delay. In reality, due to their scarcity, first settlers will perform exclusively physical tasks, software will be updated and fixed remotely, and repairs will be performed following strict instructions or advice from Earth. Coding as relaxation is plausible, but mostly for short projects and nothing serious. It is hard to focus on serious mental activity after laborious work.

rgbrenner 11y ago
but information is one of the only things that is free to transport over planets and almost without delay. Just FYI, RTT to Mars to between 6 minutes and 44 minutes.
- dvdfvo 11y ago
  Yes. A difference of 4 orders of magnitude.
  - burnte 11y ago
    It's actually less than one order of magnitude. If it were variable from 6 to 60 then it'd be a full order of magnitude, but never four.
    - napoleond 11y ago
      I assume they mean from ~200ms to ~20min (i.e. comparing to Earth RTT), which is indeed 4 orders of magnitude.
    - sfilipov 11y ago
      I believe he meant transporting information compared to transporting physical goods to Mars. The first takes minutes, the other - hundreds of days.
      - dvdfvo 11y ago
        Yes. I though it was obvious from the context of my parent comment.
- golergka 11y ago
  I don't think that RTT of this magnitude would create significant merge problems.
derf_ 11y ago
> but information is one of the only things that is free to transport over planets The marginal cost in terms of power may be very small (compared to a rocket), but the infrastructure costs are enormous, and as a result you're severely capacity-constrained. Current link to Mars Odyssey from DSS 35 in Canberra is 14.22 kbps (roughly equivalent to a modem from 1991).
- dvdfvo 11y ago
  Satellites are very cheap compared to manned missions. Speed will not be a problem then.
chongli 11y ago
software will be updated and fixed remotely, and repairs will be performed following strict instructions or advice from Earth Sounds like a major flaw to me. What if communication back to Earth is disrupted? Having the entire mission rely on a communication link is not a good idea. The people on Mars should be totally capable of conducting all manual repairs and bugfixes on their own. All of the software they use to run the entire base should be open source, available in a local Martian repository, and at least two of the people on the planet should be intimately familiar with the codebase and how all of the equipment works. Ideally, they should also have physical books documenting all of the mission-critical stuff.
- Retric 11y ago
  It depends on the size of the base. If your population ever broke 10,000 then having a few programs might be a good idea. But, redundant radios are cheap and your probably better off sending an extra doctor / pilot / geologist / engineer / biologist etc for your first few hundred people. After-all having a working terminal that let's someone code is a hell of a lot more complex and uses a lot more power than a radio. PS: This ends up getting back to the huge cost benefit of sending rover instead of people. Sure if you ever built up a self sustaining base including the ability to manufacture everything it needs from replacement parts, to CPU's, food, and fuel then sure send people. Until then you don't actually get any redundancy from sending people there.
- powera 11y ago
  If every computer data on a Mars mission dies, I think all the colonists aree dead. We aren't anywhere close to the technology to support colonists on Mars without technology. Ergo, "physical books" are just a waste of weight.
  - dvdfvo 11y ago
    If every computer ... dies. Ironically this is also true for Earth. Therefore it is not a concern. :-)
    - 11y ago

jpatokal 11y ago

Programming without any access to the Internet is pretty difficult these days, you'd have to find something completely self-contained to work on.

drakenot 11y ago
Stack Overflow releases a quarterly archive[0] of all their data which is only a few gigabytes. If I had access to a couple Computer Science books, all the documentation for my languages and the entirety of Stack Overflow at my fingertips? I think I could do just fine. If I wanted to take it a step further, I could download common libraries that I thought would be useful. I've been learning Rust lately, and I bet I could write a script to download every git repo of all 2000 libraries in Cargo and it still wouldn't be that big. I'm one of those people who do their best work when put under serious constraints. I think 520 days devoted to programming and study with no access to the outside internet would be a neat opportunity. [0] - https://archive.org/details/stackexchange https://archive.org/details/stackexchange
- iyn 11y ago
  Thanks for posting this, I wasn't aware of th SO/SE archives. I really like having backups/archives of important/valuable data, this is super cool!
- kibwen 11y ago
  > I bet I could write a script to download every git repo of > all 2000 libraries in Cargo Funnily enough, the Rust developers have actually already written that script, and they run it weekly in order to determine that there have been no stability regressions in the nightly version of the compiler. :)
- amelius 11y ago
  I guess this is how those black hat hackers spend their time after they get arrested.
Encosia 11y ago
It's not really; it's about the same difficulty that it ever was. We've just become very lazy (i.e efficient) when it comes to solving our own problems. Over the course of 520 days, you might be amazed at what you could figure out on your own if you had no other choice.